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What do Tory MPs think about this? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    Not right this minute. Have a beer.
    maybe plastic bag woman knows something about a local variant?

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    edited May 2022

    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent.

    I'm not sure that someone on Twitter saying they heare that someone on the Mail claims to know what the Durham police are thinking is entirely persuasive. I doubt if the Durham police themselves have a view yet.
    This is the Mail story
    https://www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/politics/185898/beergate-will-cummings-cop-let-keir-off-the-hook

    And Pippa works for the Mirror I think?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    They unfortunately still do war guilt big time, which they should get over because the youngest person that was in the war is 93.

    I'm in Saxony and Berlin next month, will wear Ukrainian colours and see what rx I get.

    Worth noting that Russian soldiers are doing to Ukrayinki exactly what they did to Berlinerinnen in '45.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Booooooo... Livingstone out.

    Is it 2008 again?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Well it took 9 balls, but Livingstone just hit it out the ground.

    It’s because of T20 and the like that English test and county cricket is on its uppers. It may be the death of proper cricket.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Tres said:

    Johnson's new ministerial code removes all references to honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability. The opposition attacks just write themselves don't they?

    This has already been discussed, and it is not true.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    Student calls to 911:
    12:03—whispered she's in room 112
    12:10—said multiple dead
    12:13—called again
    12:16—says 8-9 students alive
    12:19—student calls from room 111
    12:21—3 shots heard on call
    12:36—another call
    12:43—asks for police
    12:47—asks for police
    https://t.co/CzkuF1llq1

    This is so awful.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    You will, won't you?

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    Yeah but the thing is that soon, when you’re really hungry, you will eat your neighbour.
    https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1530254704835547137

    One might almost believe that he enjoys his newly-enhanced celebrity in the Russian media.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

    There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
    They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
    And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
    He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
    Why would anybody want to holiday in North Wales when they could holiday in Scotland (apart from weather and midges?).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    kle4 said:

    You will, won't you?

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    Yeah but the thing is that soon, when you’re really hungry, you will eat your neighbour.
    https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1530254704835547137

    Season 2 of Clarkson's Farm sounds like it might take a dark turn...
    Episode 1 - Council turns down application for expansion of farm shop
    Episode 2 - Cannibalism.

    Not sure where it can go from there, but I am very interested.
    Guest appearance of his mate Dave to check out his pigs?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491

    So the intimidation worked?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Applicant said:

    Tres said:

    Johnson's new ministerial code removes all references to honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability. The opposition attacks just write themselves don't they?

    This has already been discussed, and it is not true.
    The fat crook took all references to those things out of the foreword so it is true in substance.

    Do you not mind any of this? Do you think the natural order of things is that us peasants get lied to and laughed at by phat poshbois?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    kle4 said:

    You will, won't you?

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    Yeah but the thing is that soon, when you’re really hungry, you will eat your neighbour.
    https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1530254704835547137

    Season 2 of Clarkson's Farm sounds like it might take a dark turn...
    Episode 1 - Council turns down application for expansion of farm shop
    Episode 2 - Cannibalism.

    Not sure where it can go from there, but I am very interested.
    Episode 3 - After eating the council, Clarkson and friends stand for election as their replacements
    Episode 4 - Clarkson becomes leader of council, expansion approved

    This solution could apply to other difficulties. We now just need a peckish (and reliably Johnson-sceptic) Tory backbencher to volunteer to eat the boss.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    edited May 2022
    .
    IshmaelZ said:

    Applicant said:

    Tres said:

    Johnson's new ministerial code removes all references to honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability. The opposition attacks just write themselves don't they?

    This has already been discussed, and it is not true.
    The fat crook took all references to those things out of the foreword so it is true in substance.

    Do you not mind any of this? Do you think the natural order of things is that us peasants get lied to and laughed at by phat poshbois?
    "Wrote an entirely new foreword (which isn't part of the Code)" makes the lie "deleted all references from the Code" "true in substance"??

    You're being laughed at by Labour politicians for swallowing their transparent lie.

    Defending such nonsense makes him more safe. Focus on the real reasons that he needs to go.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    kle4 said:

    You will, won't you?

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    Yeah but the thing is that soon, when you’re really hungry, you will eat your neighbour.
    https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1530254704835547137

    Season 2 of Clarkson's Farm sounds like it might take a dark turn...
    Episode 1 - Council turns down application for expansion of farm shop
    Episode 2 - Cannibalism.

    Not sure where it can go from there, but I am very interested.
    Episode 2 could be a short programme, eating Richard Hammond, or a longer programme, eating James May.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    You can see where this is heading...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/1529930193481220110
    The governor of Oklahoma, who just signed a bill banning abortion, period, is being primaried by another Republican who says life begins *before* conception. Yes, you read that right.

    Were you not once, but a gleam in your daddy's eye?

    In Oklahoma, that's what "Surrey with the Fringe on Top" was all about. Ditto Chevy with Convertible Roof.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    edited May 2022
    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    More creative ways....normals means will end up being even higher...
  • PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191


    Pippa Crerar
    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491

    Asking the right questions is often the way to truth.

    Exploring what juniors have to say first is often a good way of making sure you ask the right questions of seniors.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

    There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
    They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
    And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
    He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
    Why would anybody want to holiday in North Wales when they could holiday in Scotland (apart from weather and midges?).
    It's more conveniently proximate than the otherwise similar Kerguelen Islands.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    More creative ways....normals means will end up being even higher...
    Perhaps they'll opt to propose a wealth tax?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Dura_Ace said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

    There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
    They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
    And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
    He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
    Why would anybody want to holiday in North Wales when they could holiday in Scotland (apart from weather and midges?).
    It's more conveniently proximate than the otherwise similar Kerguelen Islands.
    That's just cruel. Poor North Wales.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,459

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    More creative ways....normals means will end up being even higher...
    eat the rich and spunk their money on fags strippers and blow
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    While Sunak cut NI for those earning under £35,000 and raised it for higher earners.

    Seems after winning Wandsworth and Westminster Starmer Labour is going hard for the rich Remainer vote
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    HYUFD said:

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    While Sunak cut NI for those earning under £35,000 and raised it for higher earners.

    Seems after winning Wandsworth and Westminster Starmer Labour is going hard for the rich Remainer vote
    Which is actually Ed Davey's job.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    More creative ways....normals means will end up being even higher...
    CGT is due an overhaul.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Nigelb said:

    Not to alarm @Leon or anything, but we seem to be getting more virulent again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1529965612956405761
    BA.2.12.1 and BA.4/BA.5 characterized in human lung cells and an experimental model by @SystemsVirology

    —All 3 Omicron subvariants have enhanced replication in lung cells compared w/ BA.2
    —BA.4/5 is more pathogenic than BA.2 in animal model
    https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.26.493539v1

    Currently in the U.K. it’s the dog that didn’t bark. Rising proportion of cases certainly, but not uptick in hospitalisation, which are still gratifyingly falling (under 500 a day in England now). It’s been noted that the places with big waves of 4/5 did not see much 2, whereas we did. Hard to predict the future, but my sense is there will be a bump, but not a big one.
    We seem to have levelled out at about 60 covid patients in my Trust the last few weeks. A couple in ICU again...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

    While Sunak cut NI for those earning under £35,000 and raised it for higher earners.

    Seems after winning Wandsworth and Westminster Starmer Labour is going hard for the rich Remainer vote
    Which is actually Ed Davey's job.
    His too, the LDs of course targeting Surrey hard, where they have made local elections gains, the wealthiest county outside London
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    I much prefer your hilarious political prediction contributions to the ones where you try to mark other posters' homework (but thanks for the travel writing grade! ;) ).

    When I comment on Germany's current actions, I'm quoting or echoing the sentiment from Germans who I follow on twitter. There are a remarkable number of them who agree with me.
    I believe after you got a doctor’s note excusing you from going tonto on Vlad’s ass you were going to train as an hgv or similar driver so you could take vital supplies to Ukraine. How’s that going?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Carnyx said:

    70 days a year? That's just a scam for holiday home owners to avoid having to pay council tax, dammit. No wondfer they are howling at losing that cheat. The new change is obviously fair. And the businesses will just have to be more efficient in their usage of housing space, as a vital wider public benefit.

    It depends on the property, someone renting out an apartment in central Cardiff can probably let it a large number of days per year, but a holiday home in somewhere more remote will be more dependent on weather, seasonal attractions, public and school holidays, and weekend breaks. It could quite easily be empty more than half the year, and still be a legitimate business.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited May 2022

    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    They unfortunately still do war guilt big time, which they should get over because the youngest person that was in the war is 93.

    I'm in Saxony and Berlin next month, will wear Ukrainian colours and see what rx I get.

    Worth noting that Russian soldiers are doing to Ukrayinki exactly what they did to Berlinerinnen in '45.
    I’m in Berlin just now, quite a few Ukraine flags flying from windows and buildings, though I guess folk may give someone dressed as a flag a wide berth (I would).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
    He must also be quietly happy as he earns considerably far far north of £80k
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    OldKingCole - Thanks for the update on your birds.

    I don't recall seeing blue tits when I visited Britain, but they look like lovely birds, and remind me of America's eastern bluebird: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_bluebird
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    Seriously, don’t worry about 4/5. You will be fine, there will probably be a bump in hosptilization, the usual idiots will scream, and no one else will notice.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022
    Leon said:

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
    He must also be quietly happy as he earns considerably far far north of £80k
    Interesting that despite his massive social media following, he can't make his YouTube channel really fly (although I am sure he does fine out of donations).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Epi twitter is telling me Australian flu case graph is steeper and earlier than average.

    We have maybe been warned...

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916

    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    I much prefer your hilarious political prediction contributions to the ones where you try to mark other posters' homework (but thanks for the travel writing grade! ;) ).

    When I comment on Germany's current actions, I'm quoting or echoing the sentiment from Germans who I follow on twitter. There are a remarkable number of them who agree with me.
    I believe after you got a doctor’s note excusing you from going tonto on Vlad’s ass you were going to train as an hgv or similar driver so you could take vital supplies to Ukraine. How’s that going?
    I went walking and drinking in Catalonia instead. I confessed it was probably what I would have done if I were confronted with Nazism in the late 30s.

    All I’m really capable of is drunkenly ranting from the sidelines. At least I’m definitely ranting for the right side of this one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    More Guardian live-blog

    “The Kremlin is considering a second assault on Kyiv despite failing to capture the Ukrainian capital at the outset of the war, according to the independent news website, Meduza.

    Sources close to the Kremlin and inside the Putin administration said confidence has spread to the leadership of United Russia, the country’s ruling political party, that a full-scale victory in Ukraine is possible before the end of the year.

    One source said:

    We’ll grind them [the Ukrainians] down in the end. The whole thing will probably be over by the fall.

    Russia’s leadership has “minimum” and “maximum” thresholds for declaring a successful and completed “special military operation” in Ukraine, sources said.

    The bare minimum needed to declare victory is the complete capture of the Donbas region, according to sources, while the maximum goal would be the capture of Kyiv.

    The editor of the English-language edition of Meduza, Kevin Rothrock, said the report suggests that Ukraine is losing the “information war” for the first time since the invasion.

    Many ways to interpret this: (1) the mood inside the Kremlin shifts faster than a temperamental teen’s, (2) Kyiv’s alarm-signaling is largely about expediting/sustaining Western aid, (3) Western fatigue is real (the energy crisis & U.S. midterms mean a whole new ballgame soon)”

    I reckon this means WW3
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    It does undermine the whole second amendment thing to have such a clear demonstration that having weapons doesn't stop you being a pussy
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Epi twitter is telling me Australian flu case graph is steeper and earlier than average.

    We have maybe been warned...

    Hopefully get the right flu vaccine.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    You should see the photo of the local PD. Apparently a huge chunk of the local finances go on them.

    Look like SEAL team wannabes.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,929

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
    I didn't understand that part. Why did they wait for them to turn up?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Epi twitter is telling me Australian flu case graph is steeper and earlier than average.

    We have maybe been warned...

    Yep.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-uk-australia-cases-vaccine-latest-b2088850.html
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659
    Not a good start to the long weekend when hotel has two distinct queue systems for check-in & "issue resolution".

    Spoke with the stressed receptionist and he says they half the staff they usually have for a Highland summer season. And he's just been offered a new job building mountain bikes...

    GF and I have 5 issues for resolution so far.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Drop a fucking nuke on Moscow,. Tactically. Enough
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
    I didn't understand that part. Why did they wait for them to turn up?
    Because the local plods are hopelessly incompetent?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    They unfortunately still do war guilt big time, which they should get over because the youngest person that was in the war is 93.

    I'm in Saxony and Berlin next month, will wear Ukrainian colours and see what rx I get.

    Worth noting that Russian soldiers are doing to Ukrayinki exactly what they did to Berlinerinnen in '45.
    I’m in Berlin just now, quite a few Ukraine flags flying from windows and buildings, though I guess folk may give someone dressed as a flag a wide berth (I would).
    I was thinking more of wearing a wristband.

    Berlin is one of my favourite places, if it wasn't so expensive I might consider retiring there.

    My dad occupied it, enjoyed his time at Gatow.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
    I didn't understand that part. Why did they wait for them to turn up?
    Because they face down the cartels every week and aren't cowards.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Leon said:

    More Guardian live-blog

    “The Kremlin is considering a second assault on Kyiv despite failing to capture the Ukrainian capital at the outset of the war, according to the independent news website, Meduza.

    Sources close to the Kremlin and inside the Putin administration said confidence has spread to the leadership of United Russia, the country’s ruling political party, that a full-scale victory in Ukraine is possible before the end of the year.

    One source said:

    We’ll grind them [the Ukrainians] down in the end. The whole thing will probably be over by the fall.

    Russia’s leadership has “minimum” and “maximum” thresholds for declaring a successful and completed “special military operation” in Ukraine, sources said.

    The bare minimum needed to declare victory is the complete capture of the Donbas region, according to sources, while the maximum goal would be the capture of Kyiv.

    The editor of the English-language edition of Meduza, Kevin Rothrock, said the report suggests that Ukraine is losing the “information war” for the first time since the invasion.

    Many ways to interpret this: (1) the mood inside the Kremlin shifts faster than a temperamental teen’s, (2) Kyiv’s alarm-signaling is largely about expediting/sustaining Western aid, (3) Western fatigue is real (the energy crisis & U.S. midterms mean a whole new ballgame soon)”

    I reckon this means WW3

    Most likely it will end up a prolonged war of attrition in the Donbas. It won't be WW3 unless Russia invades a NATO state
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    Dunno about the rest but absolutely right about being absolutely wrecked by it - my bunch of friends, Inc me, had a dreadful few days.

    Cracked in a half marathon today though so all good.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    You should see the photo of the local PD. Apparently a huge chunk of the local finances go on them.

    Look like SEAL team wannabes.
    What, lying on the beach sunning themselves?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
    I didn't understand that part. Why did they wait for them to turn up?
    Because they're fucking idiots? Or maybe the border peeps are trained in shooting Hispanics.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    You should see the photo of the local PD. Apparently a huge chunk of the local finances go on them.

    Look like SEAL team wannabes.
    What, lying on the beach sunning themselves?
    A succinct summary of their response.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Foxy said:

    Epi twitter is telling me Australian flu case graph is steeper and earlier than average.

    We have maybe been warned...

    Yep.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/flu-uk-australia-cases-vaccine-latest-b2088850.html
    Oh, just fecking great.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    pigeon said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
    I didn't understand that part. Why did they wait for them to turn up?
    Because the local plods are hopelessly incompetent?
    Shades of the Capitol Invasion of 2021?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    You’d think if cops are too scared to tackle a heavily armed shooter with an AR15 that they’re making a pretty fine case for banning AR15s.
    Logic and modern America are not close cousins.

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Eabhal said:

    Not a good start to the long weekend when hotel has two distinct queue systems for check-in & "issue resolution".

    Spoke with the stressed receptionist and he says they half the staff they usually have for a Highland summer season. And he's just been offered a new job building mountain bikes...

    GF and I have 5 issues for resolution so far.

    Oh dear.

    One hears of the trouble that hospitality has with recruitment. Guess it's an accumulation of many of the staff having found different jobs that they disliked less during Covid (exhibit A: Amazon delivery driver, still shit wages but at least you no longer have significant interactions with horrible customers anymore,) and the running tap of cheap replacements from the EU having previously been turned off.

    Oh well. Gordon Ramsay said that one good thing about the nightmare of the last two years was that it had wiped out so many of the bad restaurants. It'll probably do the same to hotels that can't or won't pay for a sufficiency of good employees.

    Which is of no use to you at this difficult time, of course. Sorry.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659
    Eabhal said:

    Not a good start to the long weekend when hotel has two distinct queue systems for check-in & "issue resolution".

    Spoke with the stressed receptionist and he says they half the staff they usually have for a Highland summer season. And he's just been offered a new job building mountain bikes...

    GF and I have 5 issues for resolution so far.

    My point: hospitality is a huge chunk of the economy and they've had a grim few years.

    What happens next? The sector collapses? People stop going out in the UK with prices through the roof?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    You’d think if cops are too scared to tackle a heavily armed shooter with an AR15 that they’re making a pretty fine case for banning AR15s.
    More likely to give all cops, border patrol, crossing guard and mall security guard, as standard, an AR15.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    pigeon said:

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    American Border Force, I thought.
    I didn't understand that part. Why did they wait for them to turn up?
    Because the local plods are hopelessly incompetent?
    Shades of the Capitol Invasion of 2021?
    Shades of enjoying imposing their petty power upon defenceless citizens (e.g. tasering desperate parents) but pissing their fucking pants at the first sign of a dangerous criminal, more like.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    You should see the photo of the local PD. Apparently a huge chunk of the local finances go on them.

    Look like SEAL team wannabes.
    "The goddam Cook's a SEAL???"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited May 2022

    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    They unfortunately still do war guilt big time, which they should get over because the youngest person that was in the war is 93.

    I'm in Saxony and Berlin next month, will wear Ukrainian colours and see what rx I get.

    Worth noting that Russian soldiers are doing to Ukrayinki exactly what they did to Berlinerinnen in '45.
    I’m in Berlin just now, quite a few Ukraine flags flying from windows and buildings, though I guess folk may give someone dressed as a flag a wide berth (I would).
    I was thinking more of wearing a wristband.

    Berlin is one of my favourite places, if it wasn't so expensive I might consider retiring there.

    My dad occupied it, enjoyed his time at Gatow.
    Didn’t visit Gatow this time, though speaking of Saxony I did do a day trip to Dresden today. The Albertinum museum has some fantastic paintings, and a huge not-very-good copy of Michaelangelo’s David with a large Ukranian flag hanging from his wrist.

    Had one of the best Italian meals I’ve ever had last night at Ripieno on Monumenstraße by Viktoriapark, recommended.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited May 2022
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week).
    Yes same here. Was chatting to my hairdresser the other day who said she and her boyfriend had it pretty badly and they're young.

    It's definitely something I still want to avoid as I'm vulnerable.

    It remains a nasty virus.

    None of which means I disagree with Leon's point about future lockdowns.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    Nonsense. Just wait till Ebola comes along.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Leon said:

    Drop a fucking nuke on Moscow,. Tactically. Enough

    1. How? Moscow is *big*. So if the intention is to take out Putin and the leadership then you need something really big. And the biggest warhead yield available from the land of murdering children is only 1.2MT
    2. So you'd need to drop quite a lot of nukes. Which isn't really tactical.
    3. So we're talking missiles. Which means their missiles. And the End Of Things
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    He doesn't care. He gets two more years or more if he goes for Jan 2025 and then he fecks off to the lecture circuit.

    My view now, for what it is worth, is he should face his electorate and be ditched.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Not a good start to the long weekend when hotel has two distinct queue systems for check-in & "issue resolution".

    Spoke with the stressed receptionist and he says they half the staff they usually have for a Highland summer season. And he's just been offered a new job building mountain bikes...

    GF and I have 5 issues for resolution so far.

    My point: hospitality is a huge chunk of the economy and they've had a grim few years.

    What happens next? The sector collapses? People stop going out in the UK with prices through the roof?
    Most likely, with the way inflation is going - basically most of the population is getting a bit poorer - there will be fewer businesses and the mean level of provision may be slightly more upmarket, as people who were budget level consumers for dining out and holidays can no longer afford to go at all and somewhat better off consumers ration their treats.

    Hospitality won't collapse and many businesses will continue to do well, especially in more affluent areas.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.

    Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.

    Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Heathener said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week).
    Yes same here. Was chatting to hairdresser the other day who said she and her boyfriend had it pretty badly and they're young.

    It's definitely something I still want to avoid as I'm vulnerable.

    It remains a nasty virus.

    None of which means I disagree with Leon's point about future lockdowns.
    Yeah - the people I'm thinking of are healthy, fit 20-30-somethings who have been jabbed and also had covid before. 'Somewhat' less than ideal...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Drop a fucking nuke on Moscow,. Tactically. Enough

    1. How? Moscow is *big*. So if the intention is to take out Putin and the leadership then you need something really big. And the biggest warhead yield available from the land of murdering children is only 1.2MT
    2. So you'd need to drop quite a lot of nukes. Which isn't really tactical.
    3. So we're talking missiles. Which means their missiles. And the End Of Things
    So be it. Life’s been good. It’s time to draw a curtain
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    With you on lockdown.

    Not sure the establishment in Whitehall are though.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
    Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    'Lie' implies you are doing it knowingly. I think you are misunderstanding the situation. If this isn't sorted out along the lines Mr Drakeford is doing, then what is the point of having a tourist industdry at all if nobody can afford to live locally to service it, and your Brexiter chums have depleted the other element of the service staff?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    Heathener said:

    p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.

    Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.

    Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.

    My dad was a Cockney, born and brought up in West Ham. I can understand why he liked it. There are other great cities (eg Krakow) but I feel comfortable in Berlin.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    Lockdowns and similar measures are only a way of buying time until vaccines, pharmaceuticals and hospital capacity can control in other ways. The first two are now here (a friend with lymphoma caught it and had the antivirals, giving less illness than ther family) the third depends on redeployment and cancelling routine work.

    I don't think further lockdowns will be needed, but we need petmanant infrastructure to ensure that.
    Agreed. And probably permanent new ways of avoiding infection. We probably need to return to a world pre-antibiotics but post Florence Nightingale, when basic sanitation and cleanliness was (slowly) elevated

    Anything but lockdowns
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    I'm absolutely in agreement about lockdown. This is something we need to deal with, account for and live with (with luck). If it _is_ an 'old sprain injury' kinda thing it does get quite wearing though.

    I've got a friend who has recurring joint pain from arthritis and I keep remembering the things they've had to cancel due to flare ups, how it wears them down and saps little moments from them like a vampire.

    But humans being humans, we'll adjust.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’

    ‘Sometimes you have to break cover and be controversial,’ says the MP for Walthamstow and passionate campaigner for women and mothers

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,659
    "we need more good guys with guns"
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    Lockdowns and similar measures are only a way of buying time until vaccines, pharmaceuticals and hospital capacity can control in other ways. The first two are now here (a friend with lymphoma caught it and had the antivirals, giving less illness than ther family) the third depends on redeployment and cancelling routine work.

    I don't think further lockdowns will be needed, but we need petmanant infrastructure to ensure that.
    What do you make of paxlovid causing COVID rebound?

    Unlike the Johnson govt which is cutting the new Health Security Agency by 40% of jobs... Biden is investing massively in pandemic preparedness. Some incredible ambition being shown - $82bn over next 5 years.

    https://progress.institute/explaining-bidens-pandemic-preparedness-budget-aspr/
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
    Well called.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    Lockdowns and similar measures are only a way of buying time until vaccines, pharmaceuticals and hospital capacity can control in other ways. The first two are now here (a friend with lymphoma caught it and had the antivirals, giving less illness than ther family) the third depends on redeployment and cancelling routine work.

    I don't think further lockdowns will be needed, but we need petmanant infrastructure to ensure that.
    Agreed. And probably permanent new ways of avoiding infection. We probably need to return to a world pre-antibiotics but post Florence Nightingale, when basic sanitation and cleanliness was (slowly) elevated

    Anything but lockdowns
    I do have great sympathy with that. But a PM who can't wear a mask or stop shaking hands in a hospital? Ms Nightingalew would not have been impressed. We need a new administration and a new mentality.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited May 2022
    rkrkrk said:

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
    Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.
    He is a socialist, he wants to tax both more and backs a wealth tax too
    .https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

    Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
    @jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
    Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

    ===

    Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...



    Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    29m
    Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

    This was literally his first pledge!


    Owen Jones 🌹
    @OwenJones84
    ·
    27m
    One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

    I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

    Amazing.
    Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.
    He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
    .https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy
    Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    Heathener said:

    p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.

    Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.

    Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.

    My dad was a Cockney, born and brought up in West Ham. I can understand why he liked it. There are other great cities (eg Krakow) but I feel comfortable in Berlin.
    I agree, Berlin is a lovely city, one of the best city breaks in Europe.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

    No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

    I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

    :: party hat emoji etc etc ::
    I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

    I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

    We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

    Never again must we lockdown
    I'm absolutely in agreement about lockdown. This is something we need to deal with, account for and live with (with luck). If it _is_ an 'old sprain injury' kinda thing it does get quite wearing though.

    I've got a friend who has recurring joint pain from arthritis and I keep remembering the things they've had to cancel due to flare ups, how it wears them down and saps little moments from them like a vampire.

    But humans being humans, we'll adjust.
    Of course it will be wearing. It will be hideously tedious (unless vaccines save us)

    But we will learn to live with it as our forebears lived with smallpox (and, God willing, it won’t be 2% as bad as that)

    Anything is preferable to closing down society. That is literally unsustainable. A path to madness, for us all
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    Heathener said:

    ohnotnow said:



    I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week).

    Yes same here. Was chatting to my hairdresser the other day who said she and her boyfriend had it pretty badly and they're young.

    It's definitely something I still want to avoid as I'm vulnerable.

    It remains a nasty virus.

    None of which means I disagree with Leon's point about future lockdowns.
    Yes, similar anecdotes. I know of two people who had mild versions (2=3 days) and three who had nasty ones (2-3 weeks).

    I notice masks popping up in shops again, but still a small minority - they disappeared for a while.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


    “The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

    Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

    Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.
    The gunman was in the end shot by the police
    No he wasn't
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’

    What a dickhead :lol:
This discussion has been closed.