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What do Tory MPs think about this? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    The drip drip of conservative mps sending in letters will hopefully gain momentum over this holiday period triggering the 54 needed on their return as they mix at various jubilee parties and find out how toxic Boris is

    The irony that jubilee parties could see his denouement

    I admire your sense of hope @Big_G_NorthWales

    I just can't see it happening now.
    I don't anticipate spending much, if any, time next week with Conservative voters!

    Sadly, because there are some I'd like to be with, and I can't!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    YouGov poll on the horizon:

    Looks like these tweets have been taken down for breaking an embargo, but I got a screenshot so will just post them here.

    Why? Because if you deliberately try to line your poll up to release at the same time as ours to spike us, I will be petty.


    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1530220695313166337

    Obvs the grumpiness has spread from PB this afternoon.

    *checks clock and remembers there is some NZ white in the fridge*
    Argentinian pink. T -24.
    Ah, the famously badly camouflaged Russian Tank.
    Pink works surprisingly well in the halflight of dawn in certain environments - hence the RAF reconnaissance Spitfires, and the SAS Land-Rovers. And the Royal Navy ships painted in Mountbatten Pink - or 'Nipple Pink' to the USN.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountbatten_pink
    https://www.shipcamouflage.com/4_7.htm
    ‘Twas also the subject of a slightly eccentric scientist who decided flamingoes were pink as camouflage at sunset and sunrise. No idea what they did for the rest of the day, mind.
    Wasn't this chap was it? Used to have a copy of his book.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_Coloration_in_Animals

    I wonder if the logic is that the birds are too visible during the day anyway in their environment that it doesn't matter what colour they are, plus they can see predators coming a mile off. It's the crepuscular lighting at dusk and dawn is the time of maximum danger.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Farooq said:

    MattW said:

    Bit of an overly vigorous thread. I'll be in the garden.

    Some of us don't have gardens. Scumbag.
    Gro-bag surely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can certainly also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can certainly also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Ishmael has Derangement Syndrome Derangement Syndrome.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Farooq said:
    Listening to the press conference from the school just now, hearing the account by the police of their utter incompetence flanked by a group of all men in their cowboy hats (no women anywhere) the utter contempt by the press for each and everyone of them was palpable

    When you see the state of the US today you can only be grateful we live in a country where we are not allowed to own firearms
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916



    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.

    Oh, get a room, you two. Two anonymous posters ticking each other off (? Perhaps you really are Blanche and Nigel?) gets old very quickly, especially when they cartry it on from thread to thread.
    I've given him my room key, but he doesn't want to be in the same room as someone who voted for Brexit.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can definitely also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Yeah except no. We could just as easily talk about Marxist derangement syndrome. You know, how teaching children that colonial history wasn't heroic.. MARXISM! and how wanting to prevent runaway climate change.. MARXISM! and allowing not to be the unwilling vessels for a child they don't want.. MARXISM!

    The right is just as mad as the left.
    Remember how Ed Miliband was described as "Stalinist" by the Daily Mail? :lol::lol::lol:
    Didn't they prove it was genetic?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    The drip drip of conservative mps sending in letters will hopefully gain momentum over this holiday period triggering the 54 needed on their return as they mix at various jubilee parties and find out how toxic Boris is

    The irony that jubilee parties could see his denouement

    I admire your sense of hope @Big_G_NorthWales

    I just can't see it happening now.
    I can
    This pantomime with the letters feels like it's been going on since about 1872, and to what effect?

    The mythical number will likely never be reached, and if it is the vast majority of them will vote to keep Johnson anyway. A fitting tribute to the near total lack of talent offered by the Parliamentary Conservative Party.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Not to alarm @Leon or anything, but we seem to be getting more virulent again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1529965612956405761
    BA.2.12.1 and BA.4/BA.5 characterized in human lung cells and an experimental model by @SystemsVirology

    —All 3 Omicron subvariants have enhanced replication in lung cells compared w/ BA.2
    —BA.4/5 is more pathogenic than BA.2 in animal model
    https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.26.493539v1
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Nigelb said:

    Not to alarm @Leon or anything, but we seem to be getting more virulent again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1529965612956405761
    BA.2.12.1 and BA.4/BA.5 characterized in human lung cells and an experimental model by @SystemsVirology

    —All 3 Omicron subvariants have enhanced replication in lung cells compared w/ BA.2
    —BA.4/5 is more pathogenic than BA.2 in animal model
    https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.26.493539v1

    Paging bag lady....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Not to alarm @Leon or anything, but we seem to be getting more virulent again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1529965612956405761
    BA.2.12.1 and BA.4/BA.5 characterized in human lung cells and an experimental model by @SystemsVirology

    —All 3 Omicron subvariants have enhanced replication in lung cells compared w/ BA.2
    —BA.4/5 is more pathogenic than BA.2 in animal model
    https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.26.493539v1

    Paging bag lady....
    Don't.
    She might double bag..
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    Farooq said:
    Listening to the press conference from the school just now, hearing the account by the police of their utter incompetence flanked by a group of all men in their cowboy hats (no women anywhere) the utter contempt by the press for each and everyone of them was palpable

    When you see the state of the US today you can only be grateful we live in a country where we are not allowed to own firearms
    No, we should be glad we live in a country without Americans. Most Swiss households have a gun, but they don't go around murdering children.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Fenman said:

    Farooq said:
    Listening to the press conference from the school just now, hearing the account by the police of their utter incompetence flanked by a group of all men in their cowboy hats (no women anywhere) the utter contempt by the press for each and everyone of them was palpable

    When you see the state of the US today you can only be grateful we live in a country where we are not allowed to own firearms
    No, we should be glad we live in a country without Americans. Most Swiss households have a gun, but they don't go around murdering children.
    no ammo
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Thought it was quite interesting that preveraence of covid in uk is the same as start of last December.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    Nigelb said:

    You can see where this is heading...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/1529930193481220110
    The governor of Oklahoma, who just signed a bill banning abortion, period, is being primaried by another Republican who says life begins *before* conception. Yes, you read that right.

    Thought experiment.

    Imagine it's a school history lesson in (say) the year 2122.

    At what point does the precocious, bright but boulshy child stick their hand up and say "Come on Sir, that's obviously stupid. Were they all idiots in the 21st Century?"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Fenman said:

    Farooq said:
    Listening to the press conference from the school just now, hearing the account by the police of their utter incompetence flanked by a group of all men in their cowboy hats (no women anywhere) the utter contempt by the press for each and everyone of them was palpable

    When you see the state of the US today you can only be grateful we live in a country where we are not allowed to own firearms
    No, we should be glad we live in a country without Americans. Most Swiss households have a gun, but they don't go around murdering children.
    Heck of a lot of guns in Canada too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not to alarm @Leon or anything, but we seem to be getting more virulent again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1529965612956405761
    BA.2.12.1 and BA.4/BA.5 characterized in human lung cells and an experimental model by @SystemsVirology

    —All 3 Omicron subvariants have enhanced replication in lung cells compared w/ BA.2
    —BA.4/5 is more pathogenic than BA.2 in animal model
    https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.26.493539v1

    Paging bag lady....
    "Single survivor from bus trip tells of home-made live-saving invention"
    ..even though there was audible sniggering from my fellow passengers. I even caught one of them taking a photo of me. But they're all dead now.
    I do wonder what the bloke who was photographied walking through the centre of bath in a full hazmat suit is doing these days.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    I think most people reached the point where they are either happy with the lying spendthrift or not. More lying and spending may change the intensity of support, but not the direction.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022
    Fenman said:

    Farooq said:
    Listening to the press conference from the school just now, hearing the account by the police of their utter incompetence flanked by a group of all men in their cowboy hats (no women anywhere) the utter contempt by the press for each and everyone of them was palpable

    When you see the state of the US today you can only be grateful we live in a country where we are not allowed to own firearms
    No, we should be glad we live in a country without Americans. Most Swiss households have a gun, but they don't go around murdering children.
    Tom red t-shirt Scott had a good video about a gun range in Switzerland where your fire over a main road to targets in the hill side. Due to the shape of land if you lie down you can't hit the cars, but the fact they trust people to behave responsibility.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022
    Jos Buttler single handedly winning the IPL semi-final. If only the likes of him.and Livingstone could play proper cricket.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    T plus 19, systems nominal. this rose is a bit syrupy tho (Malbec).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Positive thought for the long bank holiday.....i will be working throughout, so no danger for me.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/science/omicron-variant-why-reinfections-of-uks-dominant-covid-strain-are-set-to-rise-after-six-month-lull-1652135
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can definitely also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Yeah except no. We could just as easily talk about Marxist derangement syndrome. You know, how teaching children that colonial history wasn't heroic.. MARXISM! and how wanting to prevent runaway climate change.. MARXISM! and allowing not to be the unwilling vessels for a child they don't want.. MARXISM!

    The right is just as mad as the left.
    Remember how Ed Miliband was described as "Stalinist" by the Daily Mail? :lol::lol::lol:
    Indeed. Only yesterday the Telegraph was hyperventilating about a Hard Left Alliance. Containing, er, Ed Davey's Lib Dems.
    As for Ed M. The Tories have implemented his policies and then some.
    We might smile but Trump Republican's and Johnsonian Tories have both grasped that what people believe is far more important than the truth. Hence Trump's "Truth" social media project. Sadly, they are not wrong which is why both groups now poll far better amongst the less educated than has been the case during my lifetime.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited May 2022

    Jos Buttler single handedly winning the IPL semi-final. If only the likes of him.and Livingstone could play proper cricket.

    It's wonderful entertainment though.

    And you know something I love about the IPL? In-between overs they don't see the need for ridiculous music, fire shows and dancing girls. The fans love the cricket.

    I can live with T20 when it's done IPL style.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent. Doesn't look like they've even got questionnaires..

    @PippaCrerar
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    Not to alarm @Leon or anything, but we seem to be getting more virulent again.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1529965612956405761
    BA.2.12.1 and BA.4/BA.5 characterized in human lung cells and an experimental model by @SystemsVirology

    —All 3 Omicron subvariants have enhanced replication in lung cells compared w/ BA.2
    —BA.4/5 is more pathogenic than BA.2 in animal model
    https://biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.26.493539v1

    Currently in the U.K. it’s the dog that didn’t bark. Rising proportion of cases certainly, but not uptick in hospitalisation, which are still gratifyingly falling (under 500 a day in England now). It’s been noted that the places with big waves of 4/5 did not see much 2, whereas we did. Hard to predict the future, but my sense is there will be a bump, but not a big one.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    Nigelb said:

    You can see where this is heading...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/1529930193481220110
    The governor of Oklahoma, who just signed a bill banning abortion, period, is being primaried by another Republican who says life begins *before* conception. Yes, you read that right.

    Thought experiment.

    Imagine it's a school history lesson in (say) the year 2122.

    At what point does the precocious, bright but boulshy child stick their hand up and say "Come on Sir, that's obviously stupid. Were they all idiots in the 21st Century?"
    The way America is going it's more likely the school history lesson would be describing how people coexisted with dinosaurs.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Heathener said:

    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC

    I genuinely believe we are nearer now than we have ever been
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Corbynism in action....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent. Doesn't look like they've even got questionnaires..

    @PippaCrerar
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491

    The Heil will become very excited about police incompetence. In Durham, not London!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    Positive thought for the long bank holiday.....i will be working throughout, so no danger for me.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/science/omicron-variant-why-reinfections-of-uks-dominant-covid-strain-are-set-to-rise-after-six-month-lull-1652135

    Covid derangement syndrome, the other variant where people imagine the nasty virus has been conquered so we can burn our masks, make fun of Greek ladies on buses, and party like it's 1999 2020 in Downing Street.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    OllyT said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can definitely also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Yeah except no. We could just as easily talk about Marxist derangement syndrome. You know, how teaching children that colonial history wasn't heroic.. MARXISM! and how wanting to prevent runaway climate change.. MARXISM! and allowing not to be the unwilling vessels for a child they don't want.. MARXISM!

    The right is just as mad as the left.
    Remember how Ed Miliband was described as "Stalinist" by the Daily Mail? :lol::lol::lol:
    Indeed. Only yesterday the Telegraph was hyperventilating about a Hard Left Alliance. Containing, er, Ed Davey's Lib Dems.
    As for Ed M. The Tories have implemented his policies and then some.
    We might smile but Trump Republican's and Johnsonian Tories have both grasped that what people believe is far more important than the truth. Hence Trump's "Truth" social media project. Sadly, they are not wrong which is why both groups now poll far better amongst the less educated than has been the case during my lifetime.
    Yes.
    Although it is interesting to note that every form of new mass media has followed the same pattern.
    Wild assertions and manipulations cause unrest until society figures out how to use it properly.
    The Civil War was stoked by propaganda spread by pamphleteering.
    I'm of the view it works great right up until the moment it doesn't. See climate change as a cultural cleavage in last week's Australian election.
    My kids simply automatically disbelieve anything they read on the Internet as their default setting.
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 160
    edited May 2022
    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    The danger for Starmer has only ever been that the plod might go for the politicial fudge of saying that could be considered a minor breach of subsection 28 paragraoh 4 if the regulations. At time would have advised individuals of this and asked for adherence to the rules and no more. Thus it can be claimed he isn't totally innocent.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    Heathener said:

    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC

    I genuinely believe we are nearer now than we have ever been
    We always are nearer to a VONC than ever but what we forget is that when Graham Brady counts to the magic 50-odd, he then telephones each writer to ask if they really mean it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Heathener said:

    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC

    Do you mean a leadership challenge ?
    A VONC would be won very easily in the Commons by Johnson
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    The drip drip of conservative mps sending in letters will hopefully gain momentum over this holiday period triggering the 54 needed on their return as they mix at various jubilee parties and find out how toxic Boris is

    The irony that jubilee parties could see his denouement

    I admire your sense of hope @Big_G_NorthWales

    I just can't see it happening now.
    I can
    But (on topic) Mr Johnson hasn't even broken the new Ministerial Code now, so why would MPs want to get rid of him? I am also convinced Starmer and Rayner will get their FPNs shortly as I am hopeful Durham Constabulary will be substantially more rigorous than the Met.which should also bolster confidence in Mr Johnson.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    Because we have a good line in the same?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    OTOH increasing the tax take from these properties by 300% could be argued to be a form of compensation for their sitting empty for most of the year. Those houses contribute very little to the local economy when uninhabited.

    Besides which, Mr Drakeford is hardly going to worry about losing the support of a handful of holiday let owners in Conwy now is he? They're not exactly part of his natural constituency to begin with.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    No, that was quite funny, I’m afraid. A clever parody of the German compound noun

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can certainly also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Woke Derangement Syndrome is a thing too, I reckon. It can be found on here.
    I would agree. Obvs I don’t suffer from it, I am cleverly wise and neutral observer
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    I suspect those who are likely to lose out were already voting Conservative. Don't forget Boris Johnson's view is also one of " if you don't vote for us, we don't care about you".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    The drip drip of conservative mps sending in letters will hopefully gain momentum over this holiday period triggering the 54 needed on their return as they mix at various jubilee parties and find out how toxic Boris is

    The irony that jubilee parties could see his denouement

    I admire your sense of hope @Big_G_NorthWales

    I just can't see it happening now.
    I can
    But (on topic) Mr Johnson hasn't even broken the new Ministerial Code now, so why would MPs want to get rid of him? I am also convinced Starmer and Rayner will get their FPNs shortly as I am hopeful Durham Constabulary will be substantially more rigorous than the Met.which should also bolster confidence in Mr Johnson.
    You know that that is not the case in the court of public opinion and his mps are about to find a torrent of criticism over this holiday period with a real threat to their futures

    I expect the 54 to be reached by mid June

    As far as Starmer and Rayner ae concerned I have said previously I expect them to be exonerated if they can prove they were working, not least as that seems to be the reason Boris was excused
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited May 2022

    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent. Doesn't look like they've even got questionnaires..

    @PippaCrerar
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491

    The Heil will become very excited about police incompetence. In Durham, not London!
    The questionnaire is a strange new Met innovation to avoid actually having to interview anyone, it seems to me. No reason why it should have been adopted in more progressive areas.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.

    Positive thought for the long bank holiday.....i will be working throughout, so no danger for me.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/science/omicron-variant-why-reinfections-of-uks-dominant-covid-strain-are-set-to-rise-after-six-month-lull-1652135

    Covid derangement syndrome, the other variant where people imagine the nasty virus has been conquered so we can burn our masks, make fun of Greek ladies on buses, and party like it's 1999 2020 in Downing Street.
    She was wearing a clear plastic bag over her entire head
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Unpopular said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    Because we have a good line in the same?
    I suppose our arming Saudi is in a neighbouring ballpark, playing the ladies' version of the sport. It's bad, but it's hardly the same as keeping the rouble afloat while Russia rapes and ravages.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Nigelb said:

    You can see where this is heading...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/1529930193481220110
    The governor of Oklahoma, who just signed a bill banning abortion, period, is being primaried by another Republican who says life begins *before* conception. Yes, you read that right.

    Thought experiment.

    Imagine it's a school history lesson in (say) the year 2122.

    At what point does the precocious, bright but boulshy child stick their hand up and say "Come on Sir, that's obviously stupid. Were they all idiots in the 21st Century?"
    The way America is going it's more likely the school history lesson would be describing how people coexisted with dinosaurs.
    Any excuse for pics of Ms Welch in a fur bikini.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC

    Do you mean a leadership challenge ?
    A VONC would be won very easily in the Commons by Johnson
    Wot? Letters to Brady trigger a confidence vote among Tory MPs
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    Carnyx said:

    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent. Doesn't look like they've even got questionnaires..

    @PippaCrerar
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491

    The Heil will become very excited about police incompetence. In Durham, not London!
    The questionnaire is a strange new Met innovation to avoid actually having to interview anyone, it seems to me. No reason why it should have been adopted in more progressive areas.
    In what way is Co Durham "progressive"?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    That would mean that Mr Drakeford is right. Which is obviously an uncomputable statement for some.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent. Doesn't look like they've even got questionnaires..

    @PippaCrerar
    Understand that Keir Starmer and Angie Rayner have not yet received questionnaires from Durham Police, despite some reports. #beergate
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1530238725954879491

    The Heil will become very excited about police incompetence. In Durham, not London!
    The questionnaire is a strange new Met innovation to avoid actually having to interview anyone, it seems to me. No reason why it should have been adopted in more progressive areas.
    In what way is Co Durham "progressive"?
    I did say "more": It's all relative.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    pigeon said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    OTOH increasing the tax take from these properties by 300% could be argued to be a form of compensation for their sitting empty for most of the year. Those houses contribute very little to the local economy when uninhabited.

    Besides which, Mr Drakeford is hardly going to worry about losing the support of a handful of holiday let owners in Conwy now is he? They're not exactly part of his natural constituency to begin with.
    You do not understand the holiday industry across North Wales is under attack from Cardiff and it is a huge contributor to our economy, jobs and local businesses
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    I suspect those who are likely to lose out were already voting Conservative. Don't forget Boris Johnson's view is also one of " if you don't vote for us, we don't care about you".
    It is not a question of political voting intentions

    It is an attack on the holiday industry which supports thousands of jobs
  • LDLFLDLF Posts: 160
    edited May 2022

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    Well, quite. This is the consequence of deciding that your only foreign policy objective is short term business interests.

    En passant, Oleksiy Arestovych, a slightly eccentric spokesman for the Ukrainian government, has purportedly declared that Germany, France and Italy would prefer a Russian victory as it would prevent the rise of a British-backed 'Warsaw-Kiev axis' that would be a threat to the current Franco-German axis that generally has called the shots in Europe of late.

    So the Ukrainian government would not seem to be the biggest fan of Germany at the moment.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    I agree with a lot of that.
    Though I would add that it's important not to overlook the other big historical event in recent German history - die Wende (the "turn" , as in turning point) which is what Germans call German reunification. It looms almost as large in Germans' historical consciousness as the years of national socialism. It's an example of peaceful change or revolution. And was followed by very chummy relations between Kohl and Yeltsin.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC

    Do you mean a leadership challenge ?
    A VONC would be won very easily in the Commons by Johnson
    Wot? Letters to Brady trigger a confidence vote among Tory MPs
    Slight confusion of terminology, I think - there are two different VONCs - a Commons vote of No Confidence in the government, and a party vote of No Confidence in the leader. I think the latter is technically a vote of confidence, perhaps?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited May 2022

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    I suspect those who are likely to lose out were already voting Conservative. Don't forget Boris Johnson's view is also one of " if you don't vote for us, we don't care about you".
    It is not a question of political voting intentions

    It is an attack on the holiday industry which supports thousands of jobs
    70 days a year? That's just a scam for holiday home owners to avoid having to pay council tax, dammit. No wondfer they are howling at losing that cheat. The new change is obviously fair. And the businesses will just have to be more efficient in their usage of housing space, as a vital wider public benefit.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    Don't worry about the variants.

    Worry about the politicians' overreaction to them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    Can't be long until we get OmiPox...combination of Omicron and MonkeyPox....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Student calls to 911:
    12:03—whispered she's in room 112
    12:10—said multiple dead
    12:13—called again
    12:16—says 8-9 students alive
    12:19—student calls from room 111
    12:21—3 shots heard on call
    12:36—another call
    12:43—asks for police
    12:47—asks for police
    https://t.co/CzkuF1llq1
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    Nice reply to Rory from Salmond's Scotland..

    Rory Stewart
    @RoryStewartUK

    The fact that it has had to be said repeatedly over so many incidents over so much time - does not change the fundamental truth:
    Boris Johnson is manifestly unsuitable to be Prime- minister. Every day he remains further damages the country.
    Speaking now on
    @GMB @RestIsPolitics


    The Crossgate Centre #SupportsAlexSalmond
    @CrossgateCentre
    Replying to
    @RoryStewartUK
    @GMB and @RestIsPolitics

    Nah - shove your nice responsible young man calling Johnson out schtick. You're every bit as much a Tory shit as Johnson. You're also security services & a contemptible #VichyScot who is committed to keeping in place English political hegemony over Scotland.

    https://twitter.com/CrossgateCentre/status/1529808903416029184
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,696
    Mm


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Nice reply to Rory from Salmond's Scotland..

    Rory Stewart
    @RoryStewartUK

    The fact that it has had to be said repeatedly over so many incidents over so much time - does not change the fundamental truth:
    Boris Johnson is manifestly unsuitable to be Prime- minister. Every day he remains further damages the country.
    Speaking now on
    @GMB @RestIsPolitics


    The Crossgate Centre #SupportsAlexSalmond
    @CrossgateCentre
    Replying to
    @RoryStewartUK
    @GMB and @RestIsPolitics

    Nah - shove your nice responsible young man calling Johnson out schtick. You're every bit as much a Tory shit as Johnson. You're also security services & a contemptible #VichyScot who is committed to keeping in place English political hegemony over Scotland.

    https://twitter.com/CrossgateCentre/status/1529808903416029184

    Didn't realise @malcolmg was working that shift.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    Not right this minute. Have a beer.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    edited May 2022
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    How much unfulfilled residential demand is out there in mid Wales? (How much tourist demand for that matter in February, even if "better-run"?)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Unpopular said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

    I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN
    Not right this minute. Have a beer.
    But make sure you wear your plastic bag while doing so.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited May 2022
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Well I am beginning to think we are indeed heading for a VONC

    Do you mean a leadership challenge ?
    A VONC would be won very easily in the Commons by Johnson
    Wot? Letters to Brady trigger a confidence vote among Tory MPs
    Slight confusion of terminology, I think - there are two different VONCs - a Commons vote of No Confidence in the government, and a party vote of No Confidence in the leader. I think the latter is technically a vote of confidence, perhaps?
    Nope. Both VONCs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Well it took 9 balls, but Livingstone just hit it out the ground.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather prioritise having somewhere to live.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    No, that was quite funny, I’m afraid. A clever parody of the German compound noun

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can certainly also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Woke Derangement Syndrome is a thing too, I reckon. It can be found on here.
    I would agree. Obvs I don’t suffer from it, I am cleverly wise and neutral observer
    How about "Starmer should be executed because he wanted a Second Referendum" Syndrome? I take it that's not you either?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt for @carnyx


    The Saronic Gulf, indeed. As you can also see, Plastic Bag Lady is alive and well



    Has she still got the orange in her mouth?
    She keeps lifting up the bag to quickly eat sunflower seeds

    I suspect she is an expert virologist who understand viruses are remarkably polite, and always refrain from attacking you if you are snacking
    Brings a whole new meaning to the term “bag lady”.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Booooooo... Livingstone out.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited May 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

    There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

    I should clarify I have no problem with high council tax (400-500% uplift) on peoples second homes that are not available to the holiday sector
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,087

    Nigelb said:

    You can see where this is heading...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeffSharlet/status/1529930193481220110
    The governor of Oklahoma, who just signed a bill banning abortion, period, is being primaried by another Republican who says life begins *before* conception. Yes, you read that right.

    Yes, I have seen The Handmaid's Tale.
    Every sperm is sacred.
    Might as well follow things to their logical extreme after all.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

    There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
    They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
    And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
    He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

    https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    edited May 2022
    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    I much prefer your hilarious political prediction contributions to the ones where you try to mark other posters' homework (but thanks for the travel writing grade! ;) ).

    When I comment on Germany's current actions, I'm quoting or echoing the sentiment from Germans who I follow on twitter. There are a remarkable number of them who agree with me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,087
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can definitely also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Yeah except no. We could just as easily talk about Marxist derangement syndrome. You know, how teaching children that colonial history wasn't heroic.. MARXISM! and how wanting to prevent runaway climate change.. MARXISM! and allowing women not to be the unwilling vessels for a child they don't want.. MARXISM!

    The right is just as mad as the left.
    Remember how Ed Miliband was described as "Stalinist" by the Daily Mail? :lol::lol::lol:
    Genuinely no. I remember there was a brief period when the Tories weren't sure whether to argue Miliband was weak, or he was dangerous, which resulted in some very mixed messaging.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

    There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them
    They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
    And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
    He probably knows better than me what the locals think.
    Actually I edited my comment to affirm I have no problem with high council tax to second homes not available for holiday lets
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    Roger said:

    LDLF said:

    Farooq said:

    Unpopular said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.
    Scholz apologists, on the other hand..
    I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.
    Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.
    Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.
    It'll take some more effort to convince me that you're a grown up. You resort to crude expletive laden abuse at such a low threshold; you remind me of the stupidest children at school.
    I have always enjoyed a good expletive. A prudish disdain for it only shows your lack of class and style that fits well with your low intellect excuses for xenophobia.
    I swore at you in German in reply on the last thread. And I'll do it again; Schwanzlutscher.

    Your crass rants are really low powered. As I said, you remind me of the stupid children from when I was at school.
    If I am one of those stupid children you must have had the pointy hat on with a D on it because I don't think any impartial observer would think you are winning this exchange
    The one which started with you throwing a "fuck yourself" hissy fit on the last thread because I called you Nigelforgermany?

    You winner.
    I would happily be for Germany. It's a country with a complicated history, particularly in the field of armed conflict, to put it mildly. It has pursued, misguidedly for decades, a policy of Ostpolitik. I think there is a complicated national psychology, in that the Soviet Union played a key role (arguably the key role) in ending Nazism and not just in the East. It's by no meaning a feeling of gratitude but there is a something towards Russia that surprised me when I lived there. It wasn't a fear either, but a sense they were so powerful as demanding attention. Secondly, because of the aforementioned history, Germany became intensely pacifist. For decades they have had both a tolerance towards Russia and an aversion to armed conflict. I once spoke to a friend over a few beers and he, very educated young man, believed there was something innately evil at the heart of Germany. I think there is a determination to minimise suffering by whatever means, after all a humane war is a quick war.

    I believe both those things are misguided, but I also don't expect them to go away over night. Of all the triggers in the German psyche, armed conflict and Russia must top the list. Armed conflict with Russia, however remote a prospect is apocalyptic. As it was the last time.

    Time will march on, Germany will eventually act like the Great Power it is and understanding that its wealth gives it obligations. It will take time, and I wish they'd hurry up but it is a lot of history to get over.
    One of the key parties to defeating Nazism was... Germany.
    Stay with me now, this is a sensible point.
    We've seen in the past how military defeat can sometimes lead to more virulent militarism. So yes, the Soviets and the Americans beat Germany in the war, but that didn't mean the automatic defeat of fascism.
    Germans of the postwar era deserve a lot of credit for overcoming their past.

    It didn't happen straight away. To begin there was a culture of silence, and memorials to the victims of the the holocaust tended to be vague or even absent. But in later decades, I think from the late 60s if memory serves, a more serious self-reckoning came about, especially in the younger generations. The silence was dropped and the world became a markedly better place for it.
    An emasculated Germany (in foreign policy and defence) was also the NATO aim during the Cold War.

    It also greatly suited France, which saw (and arguably still sees) the purpose of the EU in its original incarnation as a pedestal from which German economic heft could be used to project French power (not how it ultimately ended up, but Macron may yet get his way!).

    The political culture in Germany is not purely internally cultivated, it was actively encouraged from abroad.
    Why didn’t we also discourage them from funding murderous dictators..
    I much prefer your travel contributions. They are as sharp and as observant as your German ones are bland prejudiced and ignorant.
    I much prefer your hilarious political prediction contributions to the ones where you try to mark other posters' homework (but thanks for the travel writing grade! ;) ).

    When I comment on Germany's current actions, I'm quoting or echoing the sentiment from Germans who I follow on twitter. There are a remarkable number of them who agree with me.
    When the EU sanctions and support started, I suggested we all have a bet when the first German politician suggests looking again at NordStream 2.

    Anyone want to guess?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    You will, won't you?

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    Yeah but the thing is that soon, when you’re really hungry, you will eat your neighbour.
    https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1530254704835547137
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525

    Read earlier on twitter that the Mail has a story saying that Keir and 'Angie' are unlikely to get FPNs, due to the Cummings precedent.

    I'm not sure that someone on Twitter saying they heare that someone on the Mail claims to know what the Durham police are thinking is entirely persuasive. I doubt if the Durham police themselves have a view yet.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can certainly also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Bag Lady doesn’t look like someone who is influenced by social media. @Leon did you see if she was logged into PB throughout the journey?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,087
    OllyT said:

    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Applicant said:

    Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



    But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

    It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson
    When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

    He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.
    What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol
    I stopped reading there.
    I understand. Boris Johnson apologists
    There he goes again.
    Oh, only one second.
    I would love to do a little psychological study on those that are susceptible to siding with or believing Boris Johnson and those in Russia that believe that Russia is carrying out a "special military operation" and "denazifying" Ukraine. Psychological profiling and surveying could be done to discover how much is actually down to just being genuinely gullible and how much is down to living in a state with restricted media. It would be quite fascinating.
    Or, NOT fascinating. As the case may be
    Well, each to their own. If I were carrying out the survey I would need to put caveats for unconscious bias of my own, which in anything to do with Johnson would need to be considerable.
    Those caveats could form the basis of a more interesting study into the real phenomenon of Boris Derangement Syndrome.
    Use of the expression {Foo} Derangement Syndrome is by a country mile the biggest wankerdom indicator on the internet.

    And the rewriting of the code is the least interesting thing about this story.

    'In his introduction to the previous edition of the ministerial code, the Prime Minister said ministers must "uphold the very highest standards of propriety" - words that have been removed from the revamped edition.

    The new introduction says the code should "guide my ministers on how they should act and arrange their affairs".

    And the foreword no longer explicitly mentions the seven Nolan principles of public life - integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.'

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-waters-down-ethics-27083430

    nothing there to give you a moment's pause?
    No

    “Derangement Syndrome” definitely exists. It is generally on the Left (for now, in the West) but can definitely also be found on the Right. It is one of the most peculiar new evolutions of our time; it is surely driven by social media

    eg Trump Derangement Syndrome is totally a thing. It got so bad people banned debate of the mere idea that covid might have come from a chinese lab - even though this is highly plausible if not probable - just because Trump expressed it. It was banned FOR A YEAR. Mad. Deranged

    Brexit Derangement Syndrome (AKA Stockholm Syndrome) can be found on the right and on the left

    Boris Derangement Syndrome can be very much found on PB

    After my encounter with Plastic Bag on Head Lady today, on a Greek bus, I wonder if there is a Covid Derangement Syndrome. People driven to crazy expressions of medical self defence - probably by their consumption of self-curated and terrifying information - and disinformation - on the net. And social media

    It is a thing

    Yeah except no. We could just as easily talk about Marxist derangement syndrome. You know, how teaching children that colonial history wasn't heroic.. MARXISM! and how wanting to prevent runaway climate change.. MARXISM! and allowing not to be the unwilling vessels for a child they don't want.. MARXISM!

    The right is just as mad as the left.
    Remember how Ed Miliband was described as "Stalinist" by the Daily Mail? :lol::lol::lol:
    Indeed. Only yesterday the Telegraph was hyperventilating about a Hard Left Alliance. Containing, er, Ed Davey's Lib Dems.
    As for Ed M. The Tories have implemented his policies and then some.
    We might smile but Trump Republican's and Johnsonian Tories have both grasped that what people believe is far more important than the truth. Hence Trump's "Truth" social media project. Sadly, they are not wrong which is why both groups now poll far better amongst the less educated than has been the case during my lifetime.
    I don't smile about it, as I think it is true what people believe is far more important than truth (or facts) and that is worrisome. But are we not slightly at risk of suggesting the views of the less educated are not worth as much? And would that mean when the less educated supported other groups that should have been a problem too?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    dixiedean said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

    Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

    Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

    The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

    On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

    The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

    To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

    Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
    Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.
    You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well
    Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.
    Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care
    It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

    These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
    https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

    And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

    Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

    No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.
    This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation
    No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

    Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
    No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.
    You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

    If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

    And by the way I do not lie
    Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
    They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.
    Besides which, the desirability of a tourism levy and the desirability of a sumptuary tax on homes left empty for most of the year are two different issues.

    Infrequently occupied second homes and infrequently occupied holiday lets strike me as not being all that dissimilar conceptually. The former are luxurious baubles for the wealthy and the latter are little cash machines for the wealthy (and as far as I'm concerned anyone who can afford to own multiple houses is wealthy, and not merely comfortably off.)

    Regardless, there's no good argument - especially in the current economic climate - for throwing unproductive tax breaks at the rich, and especially not when we have a very serious problem in this country with a severe lack of affordable housing, partly caused by the promotion of homes as lucrative investments rather than as places to live.

    As far as I'm concerned, residential properties are places for people to reside. So, yes, you will have cases such as undergraduate student accommodation where they are bound to lie empty for a while, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to expect them to be occupied for at least the bulk of the year. Under-occupied homes that are left lying empty for eight or nine months of every year constitute a form of parasitism upon the communities in which they are located. It seems reasonable that their owners ought at least to be made to compensate those communities accordingly.
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