What do Tory MPs think about this? – politicalbetting.com

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

The centre appears to have moved rather to the left.

rkrkrk said:

Foxy said:

Leon said:

ohnotnow said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Applicant said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Applicant said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Applicant said:

Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson

When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.

What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol

I stopped reading there.

I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.

Scholz apologists, on the other hand..

I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.

Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.

Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.

Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN

I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

:: party hat emoji etc etc ::

I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

Never again must we lockdown

Lockdowns and similar measures are only a way of buying time until vaccines, pharmaceuticals and hospital capacity can control in other ways. The first two are now here (a friend with lymphoma caught it and had the antivirals, giving less illness than ther family) the third depends on redeployment and cancelling routine work.

I don't think further lockdowns will be needed, but we need petmanant infrastructure to ensure that.

What do you make of paxlovid causing COVID rebound?

Unlike the Johnson govt which is cutting the new Health Security Agency by 40% of jobs... Biden is investing massively in pandemic preparedness. Some incredible ambition being shown - $82bn over next 5 years.

https://progress.institute/explaining-bidens-pandemic-preparedness-budget-aspr/

pigeon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

The centre appears to have moved rather to the left.

Give the realignment another decade and Tory economics may end up being more socialist than Labour's.

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

More Guardian live-blog

“The Kremlin is considering a second assault on Kyiv despite failing to capture the Ukrainian capital at the outset of the war, according to the independent news website, Meduza.

Sources close to the Kremlin and inside the Putin administration said confidence has spread to the leadership of United Russia, the country’s ruling political party, that a full-scale victory in Ukraine is possible before the end of the year.

One source said:

We’ll grind them [the Ukrainians] down in the end. The whole thing will probably be over by the fall.

Russia’s leadership has “minimum” and “maximum” thresholds for declaring a successful and completed “special military operation” in Ukraine, sources said.

The bare minimum needed to declare victory is the complete capture of the Donbas region, according to sources, while the maximum goal would be the capture of Kyiv.

The editor of the English-language edition of Meduza, Kevin Rothrock, said the report suggests that Ukraine is losing the “information war” for the first time since the invasion.

Many ways to interpret this: (1) the mood inside the Kremlin shifts faster than a temperamental teen’s, (2) Kyiv’s alarm-signaling is largely about expediting/sustaining Western aid, (3) Western fatigue is real (the energy crisis & U.S. midterms mean a whole new ballgame soon)”

I reckon this means WW3

Most likely it will end up a prolonged war of attrition in the Donbas. It won't be WW3 unless Russia invades a NATO state

I agree. My impression (but what do I know?) is that Russia will get to the edge of Donbas in a month or two, but the flow of Western arms will then encourage the Ukrainians to counter-attack. I suspect we'll then see a war of attirition, as HYUFD says, and eventually there will be an uneasy cease-fire.

WW3? Nah.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’

‘Sometimes you have to break cover and be controversial,’ says the MP for Walthamstow and passionate campaigner for women and mothers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

Eabhal said:

Eabhal said:

Not a good start to the long weekend when hotel has two distinct queue systems for check-in & "issue resolution".

Spoke with the stressed receptionist and he says they half the staff they usually have for a Highland summer season. And he's just been offered a new job building mountain bikes...

GF and I have 5 issues for resolution so far.

My point: hospitality is a huge chunk of the economy and they've had a grim few years.

What happens next? The sector collapses? People stop going out in the UK with prices through the roof?

CarlottaVance said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’

‘Sometimes you have to break cover and be controversial,’ says the MP for Walthamstow and passionate campaigner for women and mothers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

Meet circular logic:

PinkNews@PinkNews
"If a woman has a penis, her penis is a biologically female penis," @IndyaMoore said.

https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1097937648226840576

pigeon said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

More Guardian live-blog

“The Kremlin is considering a second assault on Kyiv despite failing to capture the Ukrainian capital at the outset of the war, according to the independent news website, Meduza.

Sources close to the Kremlin and inside the Putin administration said confidence has spread to the leadership of United Russia, the country’s ruling political party, that a full-scale victory in Ukraine is possible before the end of the year.

One source said:

We’ll grind them [the Ukrainians] down in the end. The whole thing will probably be over by the fall.

Russia’s leadership has “minimum” and “maximum” thresholds for declaring a successful and completed “special military operation” in Ukraine, sources said.

The bare minimum needed to declare victory is the complete capture of the Donbas region, according to sources, while the maximum goal would be the capture of Kyiv.

The editor of the English-language edition of Meduza, Kevin Rothrock, said the report suggests that Ukraine is losing the “information war” for the first time since the invasion.

Many ways to interpret this: (1) the mood inside the Kremlin shifts faster than a temperamental teen’s, (2) Kyiv’s alarm-signaling is largely about expediting/sustaining Western aid, (3) Western fatigue is real (the energy crisis & U.S. midterms mean a whole new ballgame soon)”

I reckon this means WW3

Most likely it will end up a prolonged war of attrition in the Donbas. It won't be WW3 unless Russia invades a NATO state

I agree. My impression (but what do I know?) is that Russia will get to the edge of Donbas in a month or two, but the flow of Western arms will then encourage the Ukrainians to counter-attack. I suspect we'll then see a war of attirition, as HYUFD says, and eventually there will be an uneasy cease-fire.

WW3? Nah.

The Kashmir scenario: a de facto partition that neither side recognises de jure. The 80-90% of Ukraine that remains unoccupied can then gravitate decisively to the West.

That's when the really big challenge begins: trying to dissuade the likes of Germany, Italy and France from using the ceasefire as an excuse to going back to "business as usual" with Russia.

FrancisUrquhart said:

What a finish to the T20.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

JACK_W said:

CarlottaVance said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’

‘Sometimes you have to break cover and be controversial,’ says the MP for Walthamstow and passionate campaigner for women and mothers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

Meet circular logic:

PinkNews@PinkNews
"If a woman has a penis, her penis is a biologically female penis," @IndyaMoore said.

https://twitter.com/PinkNews/status/1097937648226840576

Yet another complete tool !!!!!!!

"If a man has a vagina, his vagina is a biologically male vagina"

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stella Creasy: ‘JK Rowling is wrong – a woman can have a penis’

‘Sometimes you have to break cover and be controversial,’ says the MP for Walthamstow and passionate campaigner for women and mothers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

Gallowgate said:

Cool we’re talking about penises again

dixiedean said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

In my experience "woke" is very much more determined by age rather than class or location.

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

another_richard said:

One Conservative MP has something to be proud of:

Ben Grant, 30, the son of Helen Grant, Conservative MP for Maidstone and The Weald, is among a platoon of foreign fighters supporting Ukraine’s efforts in the war against Russia.

i has verified footage that shows the squad of Western volunteers, made up of former special forces, preparing to mount their attack on a BTR – Russian armoured vehicle – from a forest in the Kharkhiv region in north eastern Ukraine.

It was filmed during a 15-hour operation on Thursday in which i understands that around eight Russian soldiers were killed, with a further 30 Russian troops killed in a firefight when the team of 13 US and British fighters later linked up with Ukrainian fighters to storm a Russian trench.

During the daring mission, a fighter emerges from the woodland and aims the shoulder-held Matador missile at the vehicle, which is seen in a clearing about 100 metres away.

Mr Grant, who spent more than five years as a commando in the Royal Marines, is heard shouting “shoot it now” and “mind the back blast”, before the missile is launched.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/son-of-british-mp-fighting-in-ukraine-destroys-russian-armoured-vehicle-alongside-team-of-volunteer-soldiers/ar-AAXNv9z?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=f8c288d84a774eaa895d91934f34b42d

Heathener said:

p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.

Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.

Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.

IshmaelZ said:

Leon said:

IshmaelZ said:

Roger said:

Applicant said:

.

IshmaelZ said:

Applicant said:

Tres said:

Johnson's new ministerial code removes all references to honesty, integrity, transparency and accountability. The opposition attacks just write themselves don't they?

This has already been discussed, and it is not true.

The fat crook took all references to those things out of the foreword so it is true in substance.

Do you not mind any of this? Do you think the natural order of things is that us peasants get lied to and laughed at by phat poshbois?

"Wrote an entirely new foreword (which isn't part of the Code)" makes the lie "deleted all references from the Code" "true in substance"??

You're being laughed at by Labour politicians for swallowing their transparent lie.

Defending such nonsense makes him more safe. Focus on the real reasons that he needs to go.

It matters not a jot. Johnson has form and by a large margin is thought a liar and a rogue. Why would anyone waste their energy on the minutiae when the cap is such a perfect fit

@Applicant likes to be shat on by toffs. La vice anglaise.

That REALLY isn’t “La Vice Anglaise”. You are clearly not a toff, nor a kinkster

No, but I can still dream that Boris was my fag at pop in oppidans.

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

Except it isn't, there are now Tory MPs in Burnley and Stoke and Walsall and Dudley. LD MPs in Richmond Park and Chesham and Amersham and Westminster has a Labour Council and on current polls will have a Labour MP in 2024 as Esher and Walton will have a LD MP. 2 of the wealthiest constituencies without a Conservative MP.

As recent elections in Australia, France and the US prove the current divide is not on economics and wealth anymore so much as age and education level

Foxy said:

Leon said:

ohnotnow said:

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

BlancheLivermore said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Applicant said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Applicant said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Applicant said:

Missing from the header: any mention of why the change was made.



But I guess it's too important that opposition politicians should be able to demand ministers' resignations for the most trivial of perceived transgressions.

It has worked well for quite a long time, until this clown came into office. I have to congratulate you though, you must have a super thick skin and very flexible morals to be such an unapologetic apologist for Boris Johnson

When a politician is in a no-win situation, it's only fair to point that out.

He's done plenty of bad things. Implementing a recommendation from the Committee on Standards in Public Life is not one of them.

What if it is a dumb recommendation? Someone with a modicum of decency might say, "hey that's not going to look good". But not your idol

I stopped reading there.

I understand. Boris Johnson apologists generally have difficulty with paying attention beyond a few seconds.

Scholz apologists, on the other hand..

I am not an apologist for him. The German nation has moved form being a militaristic nation to a pacifist one. You are clearly too dim to realise this and make sweeping generalisations and judgements based on childish anti-German prejudice.

Ok Nigelforgermanappeasementpolicies.

Oh dear. Playground stuff. If you want to debate with the grownups you ought to wait until you have graduated to senior school.

Can anyone sane tell me whether to worry about omicron variants??

I’m having a hoot doing an odyssey around the world. I don’t want covid FUCKING IT UP AGAIN

I know it's not leading to an uptick in hospital/deaths - but a very high % of the people I know who've had it in the past few weeks have been proper f*cked (bedridden/fever for over a week). So still something to try and not catch I'd say (tricky/impossible though that may be). But maybe without the worry that you're going to end up with a tube down your neck wishing you'd put your affairs in order.

No idea if it's just been atypical bad luck, new sub-variants, whatever - but not fun at all.

I think re-infections are heading for 10% even for people who had 'original' omicron. It's going to be an absolute pisser if we end up all getting re-infected and downed for a week every three months due to immune escape.

:: party hat emoji etc etc ::

I’ve had Covid at least once, quite possibly twice, maybe thrice

I don’t care any more. If I have to get a flu-like illness every 6 months, so be it. It is still worth resuming normal life, it’s just a shitty new thing. Life is full of shitty new things, anyone over the age of 40 has experienced ageing. That’s consistently shitty, yet we cope

We simply have to accept that life now comes with a significant new element of risk and shitiness. But these might be solved with new vaccines, we can but pray

Never again must we lockdown

Lockdowns and similar measures are only a way of buying time until vaccines, pharmaceuticals and hospital capacity can control in other ways. The first two are now here (a friend with lymphoma caught it and had the antivirals, giving less illness than ther family) the third depends on redeployment and cancelling routine work.

I don't think further lockdowns will be needed, but we need petmanant infrastructure to ensure that.

rcs1000 said:

Heathener said:

p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.

Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.

Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.

Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

North Wales is depopulating.

The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.

If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.

There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.

As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.

Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).

No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.

I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

Except it isn't, there are now Tory MPs in Burnley and Stoke and Walsall and Dudley. LD MPs in Richmond Park and Chesham and Amersham and Westminster has a Labour Council and on current polls will have a Labour MP in 2024 as Esher and Walton will have a LD MP. 2 of the wealthiest constituencies without a Conservative MP.

As recent elections in Australia, France and the US prove the current divide is not on economics and wealth anymore so much as age and education level

Are you celebrating being on the side of the old and thick then?
I'll choose young and smart every day.
I am deadly serious. This is a long-term issue.
Labour suffered for decades of being seen as the Party of the uneducated. The Tories were the Party of the clever.
A significant proportion of the working class loved to be associated with them to be thought better than their neighbours.
My maternal grandparents were two of them.

Farooq said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

You don't need to be partisan to moan at the Welsh government. They're so useless and out of date that if they were trying ferry procurement they'd end up trying to convert narrow gauge steam engines into amphibious vehicles.

However, Big G is right in this case. The tourism industry in Wales is extremely seasonal - it effectively only runs from May to September and not every week in that time is busy. If this policy goes ahead it will whether intentionally or not shut down all the self-catering outside Cardiff itself. That will have an extremely nasty knock-on effect on tourism as a whole.

It's not a lot of use making houses more affordable if there are no jobs in the area anyway.

Did you miss the figures I linked to earlier showing occupancy rates in Wales averaging along at about 55% for this type of accommodation? And North Wales occupancy rates are the highest in Wales? That doesn't really fit at all with what you're saying.

Also, if you have legitimate gripes with the Welsh government, fine and dandy. But as soon as you scratch the surface of the scare piece that G posted, you can see that it's just silly. That's why this is partisan moaning, not sensible criticism. The numbers simply do not support the idea that this would be have "extremely nasty" effects. This is a good policy.

I had not seen them. I have to say having lived in Wales for many years and knowing several people working in tourism there I find those figures surprising and somewhat implausible. Do you still have the link? If it's a Welsh government website, harsh though it may sound I would say don't trust it. I loathe Boris Johnson, but he runs a tighter ship (and not in an alcoholic sense) than Drakeford.

About the only thing to say in favour of Plaid Llafur is that they're not Y Ceidwadwyr Cymru.

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

I don't really know what to say about you not trusting government publications. I don't want to pooh pooh that out of hand because scepticism is healthy, but it's an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary evidence.

HYUFD said:

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

Except it isn't, there are now Tory MPs in Burnley and Stoke and Walsall and Dudley. LD MPs in Richmond Park and Chesham and Amersham and Westminster has a Labour Council and on current polls will have a Labour MP in 2024 as Esher and Walton will have a LD MP. 2 of the wealthiest constituencies without a Conservative MP.

As recent elections in Australia, France and the US prove the current divide is not on economics and wealth anymore so much as age and education level

Are you celebrating being on the side of the old and thick then?
I'll choose young and smart every day.
I am deadly serious. This is a long-term issue.
Labour suffered for decades of being seen as the Party of the uneducated. The Tories were the Party of the clever.
A significant proportion of the working class loved to be associated with them to be thought better than their neighbours.
My maternal grandparents were two of them.

No, the party of those who hold traditional Conservative values will generally have older voters.

It is not necessarily the old and thick either, for example the Conservatives won graduates over 55 at the last general election and Labour won under 35s with no qualifications.

There is no longer any real difference between how middle class ABC1s vote and working class C2DEs vote, is the main point. In the 1970s by contrast there was huge difference, ABC1s voted Tory or Liberal overwhelmingly and C2DEs voted Labour overwhelmingly.

Now the main difference is age not class

HYUFD said:

dixiedean said:

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

Except it isn't, there are now Tory MPs in Burnley and Stoke and Walsall and Dudley. LD MPs in Richmond Park and Chesham and Amersham and Westminster has a Labour Council and on current polls will have a Labour MP in 2024 as Esher and Walton will have a LD MP. 2 of the wealthiest constituencies without a Conservative MP.

As recent elections in Australia, France and the US prove the current divide is not on economics and wealth anymore so much as age and education level

Are you celebrating being on the side of the old and thick then?
I'll choose young and smart every day.
I am deadly serious. This is a long-term issue.
Labour suffered for decades of being seen as the Party of the uneducated. The Tories were the Party of the clever.
A significant proportion of the working class loved to be associated with them to be thought better than their neighbours.
My maternal grandparents were two of them.

No, the party of those who hold traditional Conservative values will generally have older voters.

It is not necessarily the old and thick either, for example the Conservatives won graduates over 55 at the last general election and Labour won under 35s with no qualifications.

There is no longer any real difference between how middle class ABC1s vote and working class C2DEs vote, is the main point. In the 1970s by contrast there was huge difference, ABC1s voted Tory or Liberal overwhelmingly and C2DEs voted Labour overwhelmingly.

Now the main difference is age not class

IshmaelZ said:

HYUFD said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

This must be the end of several careers (Guardian liveblog)


“The head of the Texas department of public safety has said “there’s no excuse” for officers not trying to break into the elementary school classroom as the gunman fired away.”

Not that it helps any of the poor bereaved people. Tho it might assist America in sorting out its ludicrously fucked police/guns/crime dysfunction

Might as well defund the police if they are just going to stand around cleaning their guns while the slaughter takes place.

The gunman was in the end shot by the police

No he wasn't

HYUFD said:

EPG said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

rottenborough said:

Paul Waugh @paulwaugh

Includes this: Labour is likely to ditch
@jeremycorbyn92 's 2019 pledge to hike income tax on those earning more than £80,000.
Party is looking at more 'creative ways' of making the rich pay more.

===

Thoughts and prayers to Owen Jones this evening...

Wow. This outrage train was on time!!!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
29m
Keir Starmer ran the most dishonest campaign for the leadership of a political party in British democratic history.

This was literally his first pledge!


Owen Jones 🌹
@OwenJones84
·
27m
One of Keir Starmer's aides literally rang me in the leadership campaign to make a big song and dance about his commitment to hike income tax for everyone earning more than £80,000.

I asked if it was definitely 100% cast iron: I was told absolutely 100% cast iron.

Amazing.

Owen needs to wake up and realize that we need to be focusing taxes on wealth not income.

He is a socialist, he wants to tax both and backs a wealth tax too
.https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/23/labour-wealth-tax-economy

Mr Johnson isn't a raving leftie as well? News to me. And to Mr Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax MP.

Johnson and Starmer are both relatively economically centrist. Neither are Thatcherites but neither are Corbynite socialists either.

The main divide between them is on Brexit and Woke not economics

If that were true then Johnson would be winning Knowsley and Starmer would be winning Chesham. But it's still the case that economics determines the overall tilt of the country, outside areas like London which are closer to ethnicity voting.

Except it isn't, there are now Tory MPs in Burnley and Stoke and Walsall and Dudley. LD MPs in Richmond Park and Chesham and Amersham and Westminster has a Labour Council and on current polls will have a Labour MP in 2024 as Esher and Walton will have a LD MP. 2 of the wealthiest constituencies without a Conservative MP.

As recent elections in Australia, France and the US prove the current divide is not on economics and wealth anymore so much as age and education level

Farooq said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

ydoethur said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

You don't need to be partisan to moan at the Welsh government. They're so useless and out of date that if they were trying ferry procurement they'd end up trying to convert narrow gauge steam engines into amphibious vehicles.

However, Big G is right in this case. The tourism industry in Wales is extremely seasonal - it effectively only runs from May to September and not every week in that time is busy. If this policy goes ahead it will whether intentionally or not shut down all the self-catering outside Cardiff itself. That will have an extremely nasty knock-on effect on tourism as a whole.

It's not a lot of use making houses more affordable if there are no jobs in the area anyway.

Did you miss the figures I linked to earlier showing occupancy rates in Wales averaging along at about 55% for this type of accommodation? And North Wales occupancy rates are the highest in Wales? That doesn't really fit at all with what you're saying.

Also, if you have legitimate gripes with the Welsh government, fine and dandy. But as soon as you scratch the surface of the scare piece that G posted, you can see that it's just silly. That's why this is partisan moaning, not sensible criticism. The numbers simply do not support the idea that this would be have "extremely nasty" effects. This is a good policy.

I had not seen them. I have to say having lived in Wales for many years and knowing several people working in tourism there I find those figures surprising and somewhat implausible. Do you still have the link? If it's a Welsh government website, harsh though it may sound I would say don't trust it. I loathe Boris Johnson, but he runs a tighter ship (and not in an alcoholic sense) than Drakeford.

About the only thing to say in favour of Plaid Llafur is that they're not Y Ceidwadwyr Cymru.

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

I don't really know what to say about you not trusting government publications. I don't want to pooh pooh that out of hand because scepticism is healthy, but it's an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary evidence.

Well, I can't give you evidence, because it grows out of my observations at close quarters. All I can tell you is that my personal experience, having worked for them, is that I would trust Boris Johnson ahead of an official of the Welsh Government.

And I would struggle to trust Boris Johnson if he told me rain was wet.

Thank you for the link, I will check it out. But I am deeply sceptical of this idea and the value of the stats.

Do that, and keep in mind what's being proposed here. Drakeford isn't carting B&B owners off to Siberia. The policy is really quite reasonable. Charging houses that are sat empty council tax instead of business rates. The article G pasted is really a total overreaction.

rottenborough said:

NorthofStoke said:

NickPalmer said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

More Guardian live-blog

“The Kremlin is considering a second assault on Kyiv despite failing to capture the Ukrainian capital at the outset of the war, according to the independent news website, Meduza.

Sources close to the Kremlin and inside the Putin administration said confidence has spread to the leadership of United Russia, the country’s ruling political party, that a full-scale victory in Ukraine is possible before the end of the year.

One source said:

We’ll grind them [the Ukrainians] down in the end. The whole thing will probably be over by the fall.

Russia’s leadership has “minimum” and “maximum” thresholds for declaring a successful and completed “special military operation” in Ukraine, sources said.

The bare minimum needed to declare victory is the complete capture of the Donbas region, according to sources, while the maximum goal would be the capture of Kyiv.

The editor of the English-language edition of Meduza, Kevin Rothrock, said the report suggests that Ukraine is losing the “information war” for the first time since the invasion.

Many ways to interpret this: (1) the mood inside the Kremlin shifts faster than a temperamental teen’s, (2) Kyiv’s alarm-signaling is largely about expediting/sustaining Western aid, (3) Western fatigue is real (the energy crisis & U.S. midterms mean a whole new ballgame soon)”

I reckon this means WW3

Most likely it will end up a prolonged war of attrition in the Donbas. It won't be WW3 unless Russia invades a NATO state

I agree. My impression (but what do I know?) is that Russia will get to the edge of Donbas in a month or two, but the flow of Western arms will then encourage the Ukrainians to counter-attack. I suspect we'll then see a war of attirition, as HYUFD says, and eventually there will be an uneasy cease-fire.

WW3? Nah.

I think it more probable that something will crack, probably the Russian war machine followed by the Russian state.

Sounds like United Russia is as deluded as Putin.

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

North Wales is depopulating.

The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.

If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.

There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.

As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.

Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).

No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.

I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.

I would respectively suggest to those who clearly do not know or experience our holiday industry, that I trust those in the industry here who are issuing warnings to Cardiff of the economic damage their policies including the ridiculous tourist tax are going to inflict on the whole North Wales area

Setting aside your passive-aggressive subtweeting style (you do that a lot, by the way), you've come at this debate in a wholly fact-free manner. You entered with adjectives and you hit a wall of facts you don't seem to know what to do with.

SandyRentool said:

MPartridge said:

Is it just me or is the PB comment sections getting alot more heated nowadays....

We can't afford to be heated. Even with Rishi's £400.

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

North Wales is depopulating.

The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.

If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.

There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.

As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.

Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).

No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.

I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.

Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.

Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295

As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.

I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.

There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.

I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar

Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.

Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.

You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.

If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.

rcs1000 said:

Heathener said:

p.s. I absolutely love Berlin.

Unlike some European cities gentrification has passed it by. I love the edginess.

Hire a bike on a weekend and cycle around the city: wonderful.

Berlin is gentrifying: have you seen what rents are doing?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

North Wales is depopulating.

The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.

If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.

There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.

As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.

Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).

No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.

I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.

Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.

Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295

As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.

I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.

There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.

I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar

Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.

Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.

You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.

If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.

It amazes me how someone living in the North East of Scotland attempts to argue with those of us who live in the area, are familiar with the proposals, and know the reaction from those in the holiday industry

rottenborough said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

YBarddCwsc said:

Farooq said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Farooq said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Drakeford's destroying North Wales holiday industry from Cardiff

Tourism leaders in Wales have reacted with horror to confirmation of new occupancy rules for second homes and holiday lets. From April 1, 2023, the Welsh Government will insist that self-catering properties are let for at least 182 days each year in a move critics say will “decimate” the Welsh tourism industry.

Holiday lettings firm Finest Retreats, which promotes 29 holiday cottages in Wales, warned the challenging occupancy target will hit rural economies the hardest by driving up prices and making the country a “less attractive place to visit”. Tom Giffard, Welsh Conservative shadow tourism minister said it was a “devastating blow”, adding: “These new letting requirements will frankly be impossible for many self-caterers to meet.”

The Wales Tourism Alliance (WTA), which represents 6,000 tourism operators in Wales, believes 84% of the country's holiday lets could now be forced to close. WTA chair Suzy Davies said genuine holiday businesses will be caught up in a policy designed to clamp down on second homes. “Like dolphins accidentally caught in fishing nets, these businesses will die,” she cautioned.

On Tuesday, finance minister Rebecca Evans issued a written statement confirming Cardiff was pushing ahead with its plans despite opposition from the tourism sector. As with the Welsh Government’s new council tax policies, the approach is designed to tackle the housing crisis in Welsh-speaking communities in holiday hotspots.

The minister acknowledged that the stronger criteria “may be challenging for some operators to meet”. But she said: “The purpose of the change is to help ensure property owners are making a fair contribution to local communities, for example by increasing their contribution to the local economy through greater letting activity, or by paying council tax on their properties.”

To continue paying business rates, holiday rentals must be let for 182 days from April 1, 2023. Currently, the threshold is just 70 days. If holidays fail to meet the threshold, they pay council tax instead - and from April 2023 local counties will have the power to charge a council tax premium of up to 300%, effectively quadrupling bills.

Sorry, this looks like great news. Why should properties that are empty for 294 days a year get a tax break?
Let people live there instead of keeping them empty for occasional holidaymakers. Good work Welsh Labour.

You clearly do not understand just how toxic this is for Welsh labour here in the heart of the North Wales holiday industry which is about to have a tourist tax put on them from Drakeford as well

Maybe I just care about affordable housing more. Your empty-house policy leaves me as cold as a homeless person.

Destroying the holiday industry losing thousands of jobs in businesses across North Wales is madness and could only be dreamt up by a Corbynista who just does not understand the local economy and simply does not care

It's not really destroying it, though, is it?

These figures show that in the last three years before Covid, self-catering occupancy stood at 58%, 55% and 57%. So how many properties will really be caught up in that anyway?
https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/statistics-and-research/2021-01/wales-accommodation-occupancy-survey-2019_0.pdf

And scroll on a page, you'll see that North Wales's figures are actually the strongest in Wales, averaging at 64%.

Even if a number of providers decide to drop out of the market, all that will do is increase the occupancy in competitors.

No, sorry, it seems you've been taken in by a scare story. The numbers don't fit at all with the apocalyptic predictions. Welsh Labour derangement syndrome, as Leon would probably call it.

This combined with the tourist tax will hit the holiday industry and believe you me it features all the time in the local media and Welsh news as various businesses forecast a fall in visitor numbers and a loss of holiday accommodation

No, sorry, I don't believe you me.

Apart from anything you're pretending the tourist industry is solely based around the kind of self-catering accommodation being referred to. Hotels, camping & caravans are a big part of the tourist industry, and non self-catering accommodation drives people to restaurants instead of supermarkets for their evening meal.
No, the more I think about this the more I think this is a good move. Prune out the holiday lets that are underoccupied and they become either better-run lets, or housing for actual people.

You are missing the point that all these businesses you quote are about to be hit with a tourist tax on top of this

If this had been proposed for Devon and Cornwall or the Lake district you would have had a torrent of anger from the holiday industry

And by the way I do not lie

Tim Farron is running for re-election on the very question of holiday lets.
They aren't greatly popular in the Lakes with the locals who tend to rather priorities having somewhere to live.

Yes but they bring in the income that no doubt supports many of their jobs

There is a balance to be struck but applying a tourist tax and reducing holiday accommodation is not one of them

They don't bring in any income if they are empty.
And reducing holiday accommodation is smack bang what Farron thinks will keep him his seat.
He probably knows better than me what the locals think.

https://inews.co.uk/news/housing-crisis-is-spoiling-the-beauty-of-the-lakes-we-need-to-regulate-holiday-lets-and-second-homes-1648417

Exactly right.

Another way in which the article is silly is that this could encourage prices DOWN. Think about it. You can offer discounts on midweek off-season stays if the guest is staying the weekend. That might encourage some people to stay an extra day or two. That brings in more money, it doesn't increase the costs associated with booking, checking in and out, or other flat rates. The local economy gets a boost and the guests get more holiday without it breaking the bank. Everyone's a winner, except people who prefer to moan at the Welsh government for partisan reasons.

North Wales is depopulating.

The growth of holiday accommodation/second homes is caused by economic policy.

If there are no jobs, then there is rural depopulation. The consequent growth in holiday accommodation is caused by the depopulation -- not the other way round. There are empty houses that can be bought cheaply and turned into holiday lets. If they were not holiday lets, they'd fall into disrepair.

There are plenty of falling down, sad, derelict houses in almost all areas of North Wales. People used to live in those houses. They don't now because of depopulation.

As for your ideas in holiday lets in Wales in the winter -- they are bonkers.

Most tourist attractions in North Wales are shut in low season. Most restaurants are shut then (or have very limited hours).

No one is going to go and spend a few extra days in the middle of winter at Talsarnau, when there is nothing to do, nothing is open and the weather is wet, just because of Drakeford's idiotic policy.

I don't think Drakeford's plan makes much sense, apart from in some of the coastal resorts where second homes are a real problem (e.g. Aberdyfi, Tenby, Abersoch, Gwyr). In the rest of the country @Big_G_NorthWales is right -- they will destroy businesses and value.

Except occupancy rates are already above the thresholds that will be affected by this!
This isn't a policy that will affect the average let. It's the ones that are taking up space and not generating income. An empty guest house doesn't do anything for the local economy.

Since we're talking about empty properties, it seems to be more of a South Wales problem:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/homes-property/part-wales-highest-number-empty-21360295

As for "tourist attractions" being shut in the winter, that really depends. Museums and galleries are often open outside high season. Natural spaces like Snowdonia, Holy Island, Alyn Waters are open all year round.

I actually live in a formally very prosperous town in North Wales.

There are many houses that are just empty. I can go to my window and look out and count them. They are not second homes, they are just properties that are not let and no-one wants to live in.

I actually live in North Wales in the winter. I know the restaurants are usually shut completely in Jan & Feb, and they have restricted opening hours Oct-Mar

Museum and galleries in North Wales are almost always shut in the low season, apart from a few large attractions like Caernarfon Castle. Many CADW properties are shut in the winter.

Jesus .. you are behaving like HYUFD.

You live in Aberdeenshire, you are quoting guff from Welsh Government websites .. and everyone who knows North Wales is telling you that you are talking garbage.

If you told me something about Aberdeenshire, I'd believe you .. rather than going to google and quoting a government statistic back at you.

It amazes me how someone living in the North East of Scotland attempts to argue with those of us who live in the area, are familiar with the proposals, and know the reaction from those in the holiday industry

I'd be interested in some numbers here. If I have understood it, if you don't let for 6 months of year you will now pay 300% of council tax (as it is a 2nd home). Average council tax is what £2000 a year? So we are talking ≈≈ £6K.

So what is the business rate on a holiday let cottage?