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Starmer moving back in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,565

    Good morning everyone.

    Would it not be more cost-effective to beef up HMRC's Fraud Squads? After all tax evasion costs us all far more than Benefit Fraud.

    Ot am I being hopelessly naive?
    2,000 new specialist officers at DWP?

    I'm so old I remember when Johnson used a press release about getting rid of tens of thousands of civil servants in order to distract from some other story or other. It was a long time ago.

    Like last week.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    Lord Agnew resigned from the government over its reluctance to investigate Covid loan fraud.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60117513

    The National Audit Office criticised the government for not preventing Covid loan fraud.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59504943
    We purport to be an advanced country with a sophisticated HMRC, a Treasury with immense experience, regulation of activity by company law, and accountants and auditors who are all regulated.

    Is it not just obvious that if all this works even to a mediocre degree the amount of fraud in the Covid loan scheme should be no more than minimal?

    And getting accountability from the fraudsters should not be all that hard?

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,778
    geoffw said:

    We can do it!
    Princess Anne visited Ely Cathedral in Cambridgeshire earlier to unveil the 13m (43ft) table created from a black oak, found buried and preserved in a field in Norfolk, in 2012.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-61487686
    edit


    I like Anne. She’s a real chip off the old block.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,272

    Surely a massive tourist draw though? It may have cost a lot, but if I remember correctly they had a lot of china clay pits to deal with anyway, which would have cost money. Tourist development does improve the local economy alot.
    A tourist and leisure economy has its own stresses, not least leading to incomers and second home owners displacing locals. Its getting a balance with other forms of economy that is a problem.

    I think there are far better horticultural destinations than the Eden Project, but it has certainly been popular.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205
    edited May 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Twitter is full of libellous comments at the moment regarding a certain topic. The company doesn't seem to give a damn about the laws of any country apart from the US.

    Yes but that is a wider problem. Why should Twitter be allowed to carry tweets that criticise the Special Military Operation in defiance of Russian law, or that praise Taiwan in defiance of Chinese law? Why does it not hand over details of Middle East pro-democracy activists so they can be properly tortured and killed re-educated? I agree with you; Twitter should not carry defamatory content but how do we stop that and that alone?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539
    Off topic and just for fun, following the question about the longest river to flow into the Med the other week, two more silly river questions:

    a) How many bridges span the Amazon (to the nearest 100)?

    b) A swing bridge over the Liffey to let big boats through wasn't opened once between 2010 and 2014. Why?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    I like Anne. She’s a real chip off the old block.
    Tricky passing the marmalade or jogging to the butter knife.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,565
    Foxy said:

    Yes, it is a fairly common drug of abuse, particularly used by alcoholics.

    Many prescription drugs are abused by re-sale, and that is a big factor in the US opiod crisis. The scale of abuse of steroids in the UK is quite something too, with perhaps a million users.



    One can't also "just ask a GP for a prescription" for Valium and co. NHS guidelines now incredibly strict on use. Seen as causing more problems than they solve. One might be ok if just want five tablets for a flight, but otherwise you are struggling unless you are already taking them and have for long time. Even then many GPs will feel under pressure to start a wean off.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,355

    Generally speaking, to defend yourself against someone with a knife, you need to render them incapable of using it. Which means enough force to kill.
    The most effective way being to run away so you're out of range.

    It's not like in the films. Even those with good self-defence skills can get it wrong/unlucky and the knife goes in just as easily to human flesh as a raw chicken. It only takes one strike and you'll bleed out before the ambulance arrives and can give you an infusion.

    Run away.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,326
    Foxy said:

    The scale of abuse of steroids in the UK is quite something too, with perhaps a million users.



    That's because they work. I reckon 50% of the competing cyclists in my club are on the hot sauce. And there's a few on a lot more besides.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,355

    I like Anne. She’s a real chip off the old block.
    Vanished, Lord Percy, not varnished.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,778

    IDS literally ran the benefits system for several years as minister. So either he is lying or Sunak is lying or there is a massive misunderstanding.
    He’s not saying Sunak is lying. He’s saying Sunak is a naive prat who believes his officials.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,778

    Still both.

    In the short term, it strengthens him against minor attacks. Becuase he has no real friends, he doesn't have to let loyalty hold him back from doing what it takes to cement his position.

    In the longer term, it means that his fall from grace will be spectacular. Because when the balance of pro and anti flips, there won't be much of a Praetorian Guard to protect him.

    Most premierships are made from sheet metal- they get increasingly dented as time goes on. Johnson's is made of glass- many things bounce off it, but at some unpredictable point it will shatter and leave dangerous shards everywhere.

    The unknown is when this will happen. And it could still be 10 days or 10 years.
    That’s a good analogy
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    edited May 2022
    Eabhal said:

    Ffs, this reminds me of the PB reaction to the Will Smith punch.

    Because the guy would only need to get one stab in to kill you or permanently disable you, traumatising your girlfriend and friends as they attempt to stop the bleeding.
    Lot of 'I'm a hard man I'd defend my bird' reactions on that one. Not in those words, but it amounted to the same thing of if you would be angry it's ok to get violent.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397
    kjh said:

    Off topic and just for fun, following the question about the longest river to flow into the Med the other week, two more silly river questions:

    a) How many bridges span the Amazon (to the nearest 100)?

    b) A swing bridge over the Liffey to let big boats through wasn't opened once between 2010 and 2014. Why?

    a) No idea. But if I had to make a WAG: it is massively wide, so there will not be many in the downstream parts of the river. It is narrower in the interior, but that area is also less populated. Also, as it has many tributaries, do you count those as well? I'd guess it's a trick question and say the nearest 100 is 0.

    b) I did read about this, bur cannot remember. As 'mechanical failure' might be too obvious: did a ship sink nearby, blocking the channel, or some other weirdness?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,565
    we have a Prime Minister desperately trying to change the subject by bleating about “crime, crime, crime.”

    People don’t want to hear it. Inflation is now the all-consuming issue and this Government needs to confront it or be damned forever.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/19/britain-drifting-towards-economic-oblivion/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539
    In our village, previously in the greenbelt but removed in the local plan, building has been rampant. One site was covered in mature hardwood trees including oaks. They obviously needed removing but what happened next was shocking. They were chipped. Piles of chippings the size of houses. What a waste. I assume it was the most cost effective disposal, but really could they not be put to better use?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205

    One can't also "just ask a GP for a prescription" for Valium and co. NHS guidelines now incredibly strict on use. Seen as causing more problems than they solve. One might be ok if just want five tablets for a flight, but otherwise you are struggling unless you are already taking them and have for long time. Even then many GPs will feel under pressure to start a wean off.
    OK. I was on valium 40 years ago and it seems things have changed since those days when smack was public enemy number one. Remember those heroin chic anti-drugs posters? Valium was the housewife's friend, mother's little helper, as Mick sang.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusADDs_3ps
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,095
    philiph said:

    Isn't the biggest danger to Johnson the no challenge for another 12 months rule?
    If they challenge and fail it has to be soon to have a secong go.

    Of course the Tories will likely make gains in next year's local elections given how poorly they did in May 2019, 28% and losing over a 1000 Tory council seats.

    So if no challenge after this year's local elections there may never be one
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,327

    we have a Prime Minister desperately trying to change the subject by bleating about “crime, crime, crime.”

    People don’t want to hear it. Inflation is now the all-consuming issue and this Government needs to confront it or be damned forever.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/05/19/britain-drifting-towards-economic-oblivion/

    Hangin' and floggin' has got to be close to the top of the look! squirrel list by now.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539

    a) No idea. But if I had to make a WAG: it is massively wide, so there will not be many in the downstream parts of the river. It is narrower in the interior, but that area is also less populated. Also, as it has many tributaries, do you count those as well? I'd guess it's a trick question and say the nearest 100 is 0.

    b) I did read about this, bur cannot remember. As 'mechanical failure' might be too obvious: did a ship sink nearby, blocking the channel, or some other weirdness?
    a) Won't comment yet

    b) You are on the right lines re weirdness, but you have to go to further extremes weirdness than you have gone and then further.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    OK. I was on valium 40 years ago and it seems things have changed since those days when smack was public enemy number one. Remember those heroin chic anti-drugs posters? Valium was the housewife's friend, mother's little helper, as Mick sang.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OusADDs_3ps
    I get prescribed Valium because I’m an epileptic and, in the morning, it can help reduce the chances of an attack. It’s remarkable how many people suddenly take an interest in my health when they realise I can get preclscribed…
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,366

    Hangin' and floggin' has got to be close to the top of the look! squirrel list by now.
    It would, but the government won't be able to afford the rope.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    edited May 2022
    kjh said:

    Off topic and just for fun, following the question about the longest river to flow into the Med the other week, two more silly river questions:

    a) How many bridges span the Amazon (to the nearest 100)?

    b) A swing bridge over the Liffey to let big boats through wasn't opened once between 2010 and 2014. Why?

    Not sure about those two but wasn't "the longest river to flow into the Med" obvious, or am I missing a trick and in denial?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    edited May 2022

    BigG. posted that yesterday. I think the rule for PB Tories is this: The guiltier the Opposition the less guilty Boris Johnson.

    As I said last night. The BBC's hope of a two year sentence rather than a caution if guilty is ambitious. I also said a cover up would be worse than the offence. BigG. assured me Alun Michael is a decent operator.
    Good morning

    I only posted it last night as it featured on BBC Wales.

    I do know Alun Michael and I would be very surprised if he did not act professionally

    BBC News - Stephen Doughty: Police told to re-examine MP's diazepam case
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-61493206
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539

    Not sure about those two but wasn't "the longest river to flow into the Med" obvious, or am I missing a trick and in denial?
    Yes it was.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824
    edited May 2022

    Benzos like valium are widely used as 'street drugs'. Massive issue.
    Xanax is the benzo of choice. And for good reason. It’s blissful. But it is also horribly addictive and the withdrawal can actually kill you with seizures - only a few, super powerful drugs can do that

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,644

    Not sure about those two but wasn't "the longest river to flow into the Med" obvious, or am I missing a trick and in denial?
    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    edited May 2022
    In light of the horrors uncovered at Bucharest and yesterday's trial of a Russian soldier accused of war crimes in Ukraine, this is very well worth listening to - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00100rd.

    Less about the ins and outs of the Nuremberg trial and more about the stories told by Sir Hartley Shawcross and the reactions of his son and other children and grandchildren of participants. Essential listening.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397

    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
    I can't think of the Gloucestershire one, but the Cam flows pretty much straight northwards. And after that, the Great Ouse goes north from Ely to King's Lynn?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    kjh said:

    Yes it was.
    It was trying to flush out Eurocentric people who forgot the Nile (or were in denial about the Nile).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,945

    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
    No. But I give you the Mackenzie, Ob and Yeinsei.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
    I assume you define that as based on start and end points?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Leon said:

    Xanax is the benzo of choice. And for good reason. It’s blissful. But it is also horribly addictive and the withdrawal can actually kill you with seizures - only a few, super powerful drugs can do that

    If @Foxy is around, why is the NHS allowing the prescription of Oxycodone or OxyContin? And, critically, are the controls around its use sufficiently strong to prevent the sort of opioid issues the US has had? Napp Pharmaceuticals, which markets it to the NHS, is part of the Mundipharma group of companies owned, I believe, by the Sackler family.

    Just curious ...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
    What about the Trent?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    The interesting thing about the No.10/No.11 Windfall Tax row is we're again entering territory where a Rishi resignation could potentially re-set his political career. Though he's obviously passed up quite a few opportunities already...
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1527197415379443713
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
    Is that really true? What about the Ravensbourne that joins the Thames at Deptford after flowing north from Bromley? Surely there must be loads of rivers that flow South to North?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    What about the Trent?
    A cursory look on the internet suggests that its way more than two that flow South to North.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Is that really true? What about the Ravensbourne that joins the Thames at Deptford after flowing north from Bromley? Surely there must be loads of rivers that flow South to North?
    The Naver runs dead straight s to n.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Licence to Steal?

    The Daily Mail will go all hate-filled about this but what a tragic state this country is descending into.

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-police-officers-should-use-discretion-over-desperate-shoplifters-says-chief-inspector-12616359
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Naver runs dead straight s to n.
    I Naver knew that.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539
    kjh said:

    a) Won't comment yet

    b) You are on the right lines re weirdness, but you have to go to further extremes weirdness than you have gone and then further.
    Ok think that is long enough and @Jossiasjessop great reply to a). There are no bridges that span the Amazon because where it is possible to span it (most of it) there are no two places on either side worth going to/from.

    As far as b) is concerned, and this just makes me laugh. The Sean O'Casey swing bridge wasn't opened for large vessels between 2010 and 2014 because, wait for it:

    They lost the remote control!

    I just have this vision somewhere of someone trying to change channels on their TV wondering why it doesn't work and randomly opening the bridge (credit for joke to Paul Sinha)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Scott_xP said:

    The interesting thing about the No.10/No.11 Windfall Tax row is we're again entering territory where a Rishi resignation could potentially re-set his political career. Though he's obviously passed up quite a few opportunities already...
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1527197415379443713

    I suspect quite a few conservative mps would be pleased to see him go
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    edited May 2022

    Hangin' and floggin' has got to be close to the top of the look! squirrel list by now.
    I remember a young Tory making a speech advocating those things at the party conference in about 1995. Just tried to find a clip of it on YouTube but without success so far.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    That must be the Nile, which is one of only two rivers in the world that flows from South to North. The other is in Gloucestershire.

    I'll be impressed if any of you can name it.
    This is an old urban myth. There are loads of rivers that flow south to north.

    https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-due-north-the-st-johns-river-is-one-of-many
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,012
    Cyclefree said:

    In light of the horrors uncovered at Bucharest and yesterday's trial of a Russian soldier accused of war crimes in Ukraine, this is very well worth listening to - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00100rd.

    Less about the ins and outs of the Nuremberg trial and more about the stories told by Sir Hartley Shawcross and the reactions of his son and other children and grandchildren of participants. Essential listening.

    Bucharest? Bucha rest in peace?

  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539

    It was trying to flush out Eurocentric people who forgot the Nile (or were in denial about the Nile).
    Including my good self.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,095
    edited May 2022
    Heathener said:

    Licence to Steal?

    The Daily Mail will go all hate-filled about this but what a tragic state this country is descending into.

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-police-officers-should-use-discretion-over-desperate-shoplifters-says-chief-inspector-12616359

    There is never an excuse for stealing and breaking the law, we have universal credit, JSA, foodbanks etc for those out of work or on low wages.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,576

    Yes, or at least prima facie grounds for reinvestigation. And good of Guido to share the normally-paywalled Times report for free. Who pays for that?

    It is possible I might have a few time-expired valium tablets lying around. Maybe I should send them to the House of Commons for distribution to nervous MPs. Does anyone take valium for nefarious purposes or is Doughty just a damn fool for not asking his GP for a prescription?
    Damn' fools the pair of them! And Alun Michael 'brought his influence to bear' he's an even bigger idiot.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    Heathener said:

    This is an old urban myth. There are loads of rivers that flow south to north.

    https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-due-north-the-st-johns-river-is-one-of-many
    Indeed. The Trent flows South to North for a considerable part of its range.

    The Witham in Lincolnshire flows South to North up to the Lincoln gap and then turns around and flows back south to reach the sea at the Wash
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    HYUFD said:

    There is never an excuse for stealing and breaking the law, we have universal credit, foodbanks etc for those out of work or on low wages.
    Spoken like a true tory boy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQ_tbf6j2A
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Heathener said:

    Licence to Steal?

    The Daily Mail will go all hate-filled about this but what a tragic state this country is descending into.

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-police-officers-should-use-discretion-over-desperate-shoplifters-says-chief-inspector-12616359

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,576
    Heathener said:

    This is an old urban myth. There are loads of rivers that flow south to north.

    https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-due-north-the-st-johns-river-is-one-of-many
    Several in Siberia, as I recall. And, IIRC in Canada.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
    That has absolutely nothing to do with my post
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Naver runs dead straight s to n.
    Chalk Beck

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Naver runs dead straight s to n.
    edit

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Heathener said:

    That has absolutely nothing to do with my post
    I would suggest it has a great deal to do with the constant theme of your posts
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited May 2022

    I would suggest it has a great deal to do with the constant theme of your posts
    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397
    HYUFD said:

    There is never an excuse for stealing and breaking the law, we have universal credit, JSA, foodbanks etc for those out of work or on low wages.
    I'd argue there are times when stealing and breaking the law are excusable. For instance:

    *) When you firmly believe the law is morally wrong, and are willing to take the consequences (or do not care about them) of breaking the law. If you were gay in the 1960s, was it excusable to be in a gay relationship just because the law said it was not?

    *) When the law is so arcane and ill-defined that even top lawyers are unsure whether they broke it (the Covid parties).

    There's probably more.
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161
    Heathener said:

    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    Apart from when you were Doxxing people there is nothing wrong with your posts.

    Keep them up and do not let these men bullying you drive you away as you said before it would.

    Does anyone know if that CHB person came back after he expressed disgust at the treatment of Heathener?
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161
    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    Heathener said:

    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    You seem to have this strange view that anyone who may criticise you is of a right wing persuasion, are part of a nasty party and somehow in this instance refer to Patel

    I am not a member of the conservative party, am most certainly not right wing, and have consistently condemned Patel

  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161

    You seem to have this strange view that anyone who may criticise you is of a right wing persuasion, are part of a nasty party and somehow in this instance refer to Patel

    I am not a member of the conservative party, am most certainly not right wing, and have consistently condemned Patel

    Back off her. You are bullying her. It is deeply unpleasant.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 727
    edited May 2022

    Also leads to the issue of why bother? Suchet's performance across so many years, up to and including his character's death, is just unsurpassable. It will need a couple of decades before it is worth anyone else trying to interpret it. (Plus the supporting cast in the Poirot series comprised the finest actors of the time. )

    And I say that as someone who is massively impressed by Ken Branagh. His Renaissance Shakespeare at the Birmingham Rep in the late 80s showcased a remarkable talent. I've never seen anyone own the stage like he did.
    I like Branagh but when I saw him on stage at Chichester in "Coriolanus" in the 1990s, I was disappointed. I thought he underplayed the role.

    On the subject of Poirot, Chichester currently is doing a stage production of "Murder on the Orient Express" with Henry Goodman in the role. My inititial reaction was: "Why bother?" so I'm giving it a miss.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    Heathener said:

    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    I don't agree with everything you say but I do think you get unwarranted stick on here. VPNgate, for example. It has more than a whiff of misogyny in my opinion.

    I salute your indefatigability!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    I don't agree with everything you say but I do think you get unwarranted stick on here. VPNgate, for example. It has more than a whiff of misogyny in my opinion.

    I salute your indefatigability!
    Thank you.

    xx
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    SandraMc said:

    I like Branagh but when I saw him on stage at Chichester in "Coriolanus" in the 1990s, I was disappointed. I thought he underplayed the role.
    We watched the recent Death on the Nile the other day and it was a strange film wasn't it? Curiously flat and lacking the sort of fizz and humour which carries Agatha Christie's tv and film adaptations.

    Some of that, perhaps all of it, was due to the portrayal of Poirot himself?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397

    I don't agree with everything you say but I do think you get unwarranted stick on here. VPNgate, for example. It has more than a whiff of misogyny in my opinion.

    I salute your indefatigability!
    To be fair, she also gives out unwarranted stick. I see little behaviour towards her that she does not give out herself.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    geoffw said:

    Bucharest? Bucha rest in peace?

    Sorry. I meant Bucha of course. Bloody autocorrect!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    Heathener said:

    We watched the recent Death on the Nile the other day and it was a strange film wasn't it? Curiously flat and lacking the sort of fizz and humour which carries Agatha Christie's tv and film adaptations.

    Some of that, perhaps all of it, was due to the portrayal of Poirot himself?
    I very much liked his version of Murder on the Orient Express. Not seen Death on the Nile yet
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    To be fair, she also gives out unwarranted stick. I see little behaviour towards her that she does not give out herself.
    About three months ago I realised that the only way for a female to exist on here, in my opinion, is to fight.

    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place.

    You might ask, why do I bother? Well it's because politics really interests me and I like betting on it, and offering betting tips on it.

    I wish I could be a lot more gentle, which is what I'm like in real life, but I would be mowed down on here I'm afraid.

    No need to reply to this please. It's a point of view. You may not agree with it but it won't change (in this instance) how I feel.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I'm neither participating in nor avoiding them, I shall just do some stuff for 4 days. I suspect that will be the general approach.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030

    Back off her. You are bullying her. It is deeply unpleasant.
    What a ridiculous comment
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,677

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
    I try not to criticise other posters, especially your mild-mannered self, and urge the same policy on you. Almost none of us know each other personally and we could all be saints, axe murderers or rival incarnations of GPT-4 software. I think that the sharp criticisms sometimes adopted by posters as varied as Heathener and Josiah Jessop are in some ways less of a wind-up than a steady flow of little digs at the other side of an argument.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397
    Heathener said:

    About three months ago I realised that the only way for a female to exist on here, in my opinion, is to fight.

    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place.

    You might ask, why do I bother? Well it's because politics really interests me and I like betting on it, and offering betting tips on it.

    I wish I could be a lot more gentle, which is what I'm like in real life, but I would be mowed down on here I'm afraid.

    No need to reply to this please. It's a point of view. You may not agree with it but it won't change (in this instance) how I feel.
    I'm replying because I want to. ;)

    If you don't want the place to be aggressive, then don't be aggressive yourself.

    As for 'gentle in real life' : didn't you say you'd whack someone with your stick if they didn't wear a mask in a supermarket or somesuch?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397

    I try not to criticise other posters, especially your mild-mannered self, and urge the same policy on you. Almost none of us know each other personally and we could all be saints, axe murderers or rival incarnations of GPT-4 software. I think that the sharp criticisms sometimes adopted by posters as varied as Heathener and Josiah Jessop are in some ways less of a wind-up than a steady flow of little digs at the other side of an argument.
    "axe murderers"

    (fx: polishes his axe and looks for victims...)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,677
    We shouldn't laugh, but here's George W Bush speaking at a rally yesterday on Ukraine:

    "The [problem] is an absence of checks and balances in Russia, and the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq"

    He hastily corrected himself, but uncomfortably it's not altogether wrong. While we have a democratic system with ample space for open debate, in the end it generally comes down to the judgment of a couple of leaders, since the rest of us don't have all the available information. I'm not sure there's a good way to avoid that, since governments can't simply release all the information from every source and if they did we would barely be equipped to analyse it.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    Heathener said:

    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    You do have very much a downer on the country at times and it can annoy others. There are huge challenges, but actually for a lot of people life isn't that bad and they don't recognise your version of the UK. You don't seem comfortable here anymore and thats sad, and you want to move away. I guess there are other reasons why you don't but don't expect everyone to agree with your state of the nation opinions.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    There's going to be a street party on our road which I think we are going to participate in. Although being in the heart of right-on SE London I think that references to the monarchy and Union Jack bunting will be minimal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,030
    edited May 2022

    I try not to criticise other posters, especially your mild-mannered self, and urge the same policy on you. Almost none of us know each other personally and we could all be saints, axe murderers or rival incarnations of GPT-4 software. I think that the sharp criticisms sometimes adopted by posters as varied as Heathener and Josiah Jessop are in some ways less of a wind-up than a steady flow of little digs at the other side of an argument.
    I largely agree with you Nick but ultimately when we cast out eye around the world we really do not live in the country some want to paint us as

    Yes we have many problems, and an unprecedented economic and war crisis but we have a lot to be grateful for and to be proud of
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,326

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
    Heathener (or any of us) has no obligation to post in a way that is "conducive to a less confrontational society".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener (or any of us) has no obligation to post in a way that is "conducive to a less confrontational society".
    Indeed not, but like Starmer its the hypocrisy that gets you.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    We shouldn't laugh, but here's George W Bush speaking at a rally yesterday on Ukraine:

    "The [problem] is an absence of checks and balances in Russia, and the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq"

    He hastily corrected himself, but uncomfortably it's not altogether wrong. While we have a democratic system with ample space for open debate, in the end it generally comes down to the judgment of a couple of leaders, since the rest of us don't have all the available information. I'm not sure there's a good way to avoid that, since governments can't simply release all the information from every source and if they did we would barely be equipped to analyse it.

    The video is brilliant, I saw it captioned "world's worst Freudian slip," which I think is a good description.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,945
    Got through to HMRC.
    Top tip for contacting government. Find out when the phone line opens.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener (or any of us) has no obligation to post in a way that is "conducive to a less confrontational society".
    You say that but your own posts typically have a wonderful emollient quality and your views are so sensible that no reasonable person could disagree with them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,576

    There's going to be a street party on our road which I think we are going to participate in. Although being in the heart of right-on SE London I think that references to the monarchy and Union Jack bunting will be minimal.
    There's going to be a fete on our Recreation Ground, with a mixture of stalls.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    I largely agree with you Nick but ultimately when we cast out eye around the world we really do not live in the country some want to paint us as

    Yes we have many problems, and an unprecedented economic and war crisis but we have a lot to be grateful for and to be proud of
    Tldr; I'm all right, Jack.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,842

    Nutella is evil. It is supposed to be chocolate and nuts, but contains precious little of either (15% cocoa, 13% nuts). It's mainly sugar and fat. It's hideous, foul-tasting and foul-smelling stuff.

    Needless to say, both Mrs J and the little 'un disagree with me on this... ;)
    I'm not a fan either - it's not that I find it so unpleasant, but when I was little we had delicious, very cocoa-y chocolate spread. It all went because nutella style spread stormed the market.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    There's going to be a street party on our road which I think we are going to participate in. Although being in the heart of right-on SE London I think that references to the monarchy and Union Jack bunting will be minimal.
    There's one on my sisters street, she offered to pick me up to attend.
    I raised my eyebrows.
    Family in jokes aside, Increasing social anxiety has made such things just more difficult than enjoyable. It's a shame and you end up hermitting rather than 'joining in with the fun'
    Interaction on pb tick
    Nice quiet chess match tick
    Interaction with people thundering about the place AAAAAAAAGH
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,539
    dixiedean said:

    Got through to HMRC.
    Top tip for contacting government. Find out when the phone line opens.

    Yep or get yourself registered as an agent (although you have to wait on that now whereas it used to be instant). They didn't seem to object to me doing it even though I was just doing it for my family members.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to speculate about the MP being investigated for alleged sexual offences.

    But am I the only one a touch troubled by the order to stay away from Parliament during the investigation?

    If there is a concern about interference with witnesses or evidence, that is one thing. But in the absence of that, is this really acceptable? First, it risks identifying the person or putting others under unfair suspicion. Second, why should someone who has not even been charged be prevented from doing a key part of their job? A person is innocent until proven guilty. Keeping someone away even when not charged is implying that they are somehow in the wrong and when they do come back, assuming no charge, that will hang round them.

    I realise there are other considerations. But lots of people remain free while investigations carry on and we do not expect them to stop working and be shunned by society.

    I do worry that we are in danger of denuding the very precious idea of "innocence until proven guilty" of any real meaning and creating a whole new set of unfairnesses. It is precisely because sexual offence allegations are so serious that we should be wary of a "judgment first, trial later" approach.

    Or am I alone in worrying about this?

    You are not alone - I find it very troubling indeed. Until charged everything should be done to avoid jigsaw identification. And he has a job to do to represent his constituents. Does he get to vote? Take part in committees?
    I can understand that there might be an issue if the person accusing him is also at parliament, but this is not the way to handle it.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,945
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to speculate about the MP being investigated for alleged sexual offences.

    But am I the only one a touch troubled by the order to stay away from Parliament during the investigation?

    If there is a concern about interference with witnesses or evidence, that is one thing. But in the absence of that, is this really acceptable? First, it risks identifying the person or putting others under unfair suspicion. Second, why should someone who has not even been charged be prevented from doing a key part of their job? A person is innocent until proven guilty. Keeping someone away even when not charged is implying that they are somehow in the wrong and when they do come back, assuming no charge, that will hang round them.

    I realise there are other considerations. But lots of people remain free while investigations carry on and we do not expect them to stop working and be shunned by society.

    I do worry that we are in danger of denuding the very precious idea of "innocence until proven guilty" of any real meaning and creating a whole new set of unfairnesses. It is precisely because sexual offence allegations are so serious that we should be wary of a "judgment first, trial later" approach.

    Or am I alone in worrying about this?

    No.
    He's a right to pre-charge anonymity. Must be super easy for any colleagues to figure it out by elimination (I'm sure word has got around).
    That isn't anonymity to my eyes.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,160
    Just reading the SG's terms of references for the Covid inquiry. No explicit mention of economic harm, though might be included under 2b. I reckon they'll get ignored under 6c though.

    My suspicion is that the devolved administrations, absolved of any responsibility for the economy, will conclude that their longer and tighter restrictions were worth it.

    https://www.gov.scot/publications/covid-19-inquiry/pages/terms-of-reference/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to speculate about the MP being investigated for alleged sexual offences.

    But am I the only one a touch troubled by the order to stay away from Parliament during the investigation?

    If there is a concern about interference with witnesses or evidence, that is one thing. But in the absence of that, is this really acceptable? First, it risks identifying the person or putting others under unfair suspicion. Second, why should someone who has not even been charged be prevented from doing a key part of their job? A person is innocent until proven guilty. Keeping someone away even when not charged is implying that they are somehow in the wrong and when they do come back, assuming no charge, that will hang round them.

    I realise there are other considerations. But lots of people remain free while investigations carry on and we do not expect them to stop working and be shunned by society.

    I do worry that we are in danger of denuding the very precious idea of "innocence until proven guilty" of any real meaning and creating a whole new set of unfairnesses. It is precisely because sexual offence allegations are so serious that we should be wary of a "judgment first, trial later" approach.

    Or am I alone in worrying about this?

    You're not alone.
    After a 2 year investigation the police should have been ready to charge on arrest and interview under caution.
    I'm surprised SKS joined calls to 'name'. He's a lawyer. He should know better.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630

    Tldr; I'm all right, Jack.
    Not fair comment. You can take a rounded view of the situation. For some times are incredibly tough right now. But that does not chime with some of the characterisations of the country that heathener has used. I think one was that there are 100 other countries better to live in than the UK? Waiting for the list.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,326

    You are not alone - I find it very troubling indeed. Until charged everything should be done to avoid jigsaw identification. And he has a job to do to represent his constituents. Does he get to vote? Take part in committees?
    I can understand that there might be an issue if the person accusing him is also at parliament, but this is not the way to handle it.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Anybody who cares to find out knows who the fucker is anyway so it makes no difference.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    rcs1000 said:

    I love the Suchet Poirot, but the first Branagh Poirot was decent.

    The second, on the other hand, was turgid.
    I made the mistake of rewatching the 1978 Ustinov DOTN before I saw Branagh’s one - apart from the contrived “story of the moustache” Branagh committed a fairly fundamental dramatic flaw of stripping any comedy from it - who in their right mind uses French & Saunders and gives them NO comedy. Turgid, tedious twaddle.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Heathener said:

    About three months ago I realised that the only way for a female to exist on here, in my opinion, is to fight.

    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place.

    You might ask, why do I bother? Well it's because politics really interests me and I like betting on it, and offering betting tips on it.

    I wish I could be a lot more gentle, which is what I'm like in real life, but I would be mowed down on here I'm afraid.

    No need to reply to this please. It's a point of view. You may not agree with it but it won't change (in this instance) how I feel.
    I had absolutely no idea you were a woman - I'm sure you don't want to be treated differently because of it. G is one of the politer posters on here and has been for about 10 years so if his cage is rattled it is surprising. Generally if you speak with nuance on here it is ignored so people tend to make extreme statements which provoke the debate.
This discussion has been closed.