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Ipsos: 57% say MPs should be able to accuse each other of lying – politicalbetting.com
Ipsos: 57% say MPs should be able to accuse each other of lying – politicalbetting.com
One of the things that has come to a head during the current parliament is the rule that MPs are not allowed to call each other liars in the House of Commons. This has been driven largely by what his opponents see as the prime minister’s approach to the truth.
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Many issues and statements can be spinned multiple ways, especially on statistics.
If "lying" became a default, lazy accusation without real consequence, it would mask the incidence and importance of actual lies.
Like the difference between using the F word as punctuation in normal discourse, and using the F word in CBeebies bedtime stories.
People should be free to say what they want in the Commons, and accuse others of whatever they want, and if the voters aren't happy the voters should be able to vote how they want.
"Lying" is an irregular verb, or a bit like the old saying about terrorism, one person's lie is another's spin etc
However, I do not think speculative naming of individuals should happen before the person is named, not least because of the legal implications to the site owners
Stamford was featured in Alec Clifton-Taylor's excellent 1978 TV series and book - Six English Towns :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGC7yC2iXa4
There have been rumours about Westwood for YEARS.
Strange to think that his father was a Bishop.
Boris just blusters away repeating the same half relevant statistics time and again without addressing the question. Blackford is utterly tedious and sanctimonious. Ed Davies didn't even bother to turn up which was a good call by him.
Would this be any better if they were also calling each other liars? Probably not. It is undignifed and pointless already.
Anyway, I have it on good authority that the MP in question wasn't actually watching porn, but was watching a scene from a film called Basic Instinct so that he felt better informed about a story in the MoS.
As he opened it, it came out of sleep mode, and continued playing the video be had been watching in his hotel room the previous evening. Unfortunately for him, the volume was loud, and the panting and moaning was heard by the entire plane.
He slammed the laptop shut and went a very bright red.
It is so depressing
But I like to assume that sons and daughters of the manse are brought up with a more solid sense of right and wrong.
Gordon Brown and Theresa May both had/have a sense of duty and morality, whatever you think of their politics (not much in my case).
I would however have Full Fact-like investigation team to whom statements can be referred and if they find untruths then they can apply a range of sanctions, including the person being referred to as "the dishonourable member" or, if a privy councillor, "the wrong dishonourable member" for a period of time matching the judged severity of the offence.
Now we have one who seems able to lie as easily as he breathes, has seemingly no conscience and is degrading the office he holds. He needs to be gone, but the ones with the power to remove him have not, yet, summoned the gumption to do it.
Clock is ticking. One way or another Johnson will not be PM in 2025. For the countries sakes, it needs to be 2022.
Only 14 years younger than @Big_G_NorthWales.
The only suitable action in that circumstance is (if the airline has phone/VOIP service) to call a randomly named subordinate and very publicly fire them for watching porn on your laptop which they borrowed last night.
Just back from a run, perfect running temperature in SW London today
Accusation clearly proven = Ban for liar
Accusation unclear, untrue, or even likely true but not clearcut = Ban for accuser
I’ve heard that not only Hungary but also Austria and Germany are ready to pay for the Russian gas in rubles. Are they still in eurozone or in rublezone?
https://twitter.com/donaldtuskEPP/status/1519293166968619015
Trying to walk/run through the discomfort (that sometimes works), but not much luck so far...
Central Park is an absolute riot of colour right now.
He’s right. Germany have a fucking nerve.
All that happens is you create a new baseline at the higher rate, it's like tax, once they're introduced it's extremely difficult to get rid of them. That Osborne managed to get rid of the damaging 50% rate was a minor miracle, if only he'd also dumped the completely counter productive £100-125k allowance withdrawal band.
There's simply no way that the government could uprate benefits by just 1% with inflation at over 5%, even if there was a bringing forwards of the next rise. Honestly, I'm surprised you've fallen for Johnstone's idea, he's been an incredibly disappointing IFS head and he'd be the first person calling the following 1% rise unfair.
Members refering to each other as honourable people from the place that elected them, and refraining from direct accusations of dishourable behaviour, may seem arcane but make for a much higher quality of debate.
Without such rules, Parliament would be like some of the worst days on Twitter, where everyone is a liar, and anything they do is purely for base political motives.
Max is possibly right on the politics.
The problem is that benefits are uprated on out-of-date CPI stats, so when we get a massive surge in inflation the rates take 12 months to catch up.
2022-23 rates - based on the 12 months to September 2021
2023-24 rates - based on the 12 months to September 2022
I think the rates should use the most recent 12 months. Or perhaps be adjusted every 6 or 3 months. It's really unfair to ask claimants to wait for a whole year for their benefits to catch up with inflation.
BBC DJs, like MPs, are assumed to be honourable people.
They service should also be offered to any member in advance of making a statement such that they could avoid the embarrassment of misstatements completely.
But of course the BBC won't have known anything about this, never heard a peep, during his 20 years when he worked there.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-61241436
I wouldn't be shocked if we get a few ratings downgrades in the next year or two, our gilt prices already trade below our current average rating.
I'm normally pretty bullish on the UK economy but the last few weeks have been a chastening experience, all of the warning signs are flashing and both Bailey and Rishi are sitting around twiddling their thumbs talking about £50 off an MOT.
I thought anyone told to come to the bar of the House of Commons was effectively subpoened, and to refuse was tantamount to contempt of Court?
We already saw a couple of weeks ago, that the personal finances of an MP’s spouse are now fair game for the front pages. That story alone, likely put off dozens of decent people from standing for political office.
People aged 30 now, have been on social media and carrying digital cameras everywhere since they were 17, probably behaving like teenagers did. Their friends from years back will all have photos and videos of all sorts of things that are now considered problematic.
Keir Starmer is warned Labour will struggle to make gains at the local elections
Most of the council seats being fought for next week were last contested in 2018
The results 4 years ago were a high water mark of Labour’s recent performance
Election gurus suggest Sir Keir will do well to avoid an 'underwhelming' result"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10759629/Labour-struggle-make-gains-local-elections-despite-Boris-Johnsons-Partygate-woes.html
I’m truth there is little they can do, but they could start by *not* focusing the pain on a) the least well-off; b) the productive economy.
(In the same way, we can already tell that the next government - ie Labour - won’t do anything much).
I pride myself that I have always treated women with respect, and not least those who worked for me during the 40 years I ran my business and even today are personal friends
I am disgusted with the behaviour of some mps and it seems, according to todays report, it is cross party with 3 cabinet ministers and 2 shadow cabinet ministers under investigation
What is wrong with these people ?
Accusations of deliberate falsehood, if seriously alleged, would be a matter of privilege and could be made only on a substantive motion secured by writing privately to the Speaker to obtain permission to raise a matter of privilege. Any such accusation made in the course of other proceedings would be disorderly and must be withdrawn.
The problem is the lack of a coherent plan from Johnson/Rishi. As you say, Osborne put forward something credible and the market went for it.
The next government needs a credible plan.
I feel like this is misplaced dick-waving, since he’s failed to address Johnson’s serial deceits.
The Mail on Sunday editor is beneath contempt.
One of the reasons I think Rishi is keeping quiet is that he's realised if he turns on the spending taps the big bond funds will go on strike as they see no credible plan that the UK will enforce fiscal discipline.
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"The idea that Raab, or indeed anyone, would deliberately watch pornography in the Commons chamber simply doesn't pass the sniff test. Why would anyone do that?
What might have happened is someone texted/WhatsApped something NSFW and they opened the message before realising what it was.
Why would anyone deliberately watch pornography on the job?"
SSI - Based on many documented cases, would appear it's because they are horny as horny-toads? AND think they can get away with it, because when they got caught was NOT the first time they'd done it, more like the umptenth.
Here is just one recent example:
https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/20/texas-teacher-watching-porn-on-laptop-shown-on-projector-gets-fired-16497426/
And from Jolly Old Blighty:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/three-british-judges-fired-watching-porn-work-legal-officials-n324996
Why are you surprised?