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Ipsos: 57% say MPs should be able to accuse each other of lying – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    Good idea, but it won't be retrofitted on a 2004 Corsa, which worries me.
    I find the way that exotic tech becomes standard in cars interesting.

    Once upon a time, anti-lock brakes were only fitted on the more expensive and exotic military jets. Now they are a legal requirement for new cars.

    Get general tire health monitoring into Bugattis and us Head Count will find it built into our cars within 5 years....
  • JonathanBarnesJonathanBarnes Posts: 70
    edited April 2022
    .....
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    In PutinWorld, Ukraine doesn't exist. There's a province of West Russia where they talk a bit funny, that's all. So Russia is just doing an Internal Special Operation.

    It's a fairly good "tell" of Russians who support this stuff - they will tell you there is no such thing as a Ukrainian language, culture etc..
    Rory Stewart says it is “insane” to think of England and Scotland as different countries

    https://www.thenational.wales/news/20092633.rory-stewart-insane-think-borders-cumbria-different-countries/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    Well it’s never the obvious one is it? Judge Dredd Gardenwalker.
    "His eyes are a bit close together, you can tell 'es a wrong 'un" - Constable Savage.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070

    The case of the conservative minister alleged viewing of pornography has been referred to the ICGF by the conservative chief whip

    PB consensus is that they are innocent (probably)

    Still awkward to explain I think in front an investigative panel “it just opened up and I had no choice but to finger my way through it.”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992
    edited April 2022

    I wouldn’t. I’d move.
    You may not be able to afford to move to an expensive enough area that ensures even the non faith, non selective state schools are generally good
  • algarkirk said:

    Just pop that into the language of dim people like me.....

    The Bank of England has printed money and bought the debt. Since we owe money to the Bank, but we own the Bank, we owe money to ourselves so its cancelled out.

    We still report the headline figure of how much we owe as the full debt total, including to the Bank, as it is a polite conceit to pretend that the Bank didn't print money in order to finance the debt.
  • dixiedean said:

    Chapeau. DUP have long been the most transfer unfriendly. Even more than SF.
    My point is more about people transferring tactically to the UUP now to try and block the DUP in various seats.

    This person is still predicting the DUP to be the largest party: https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1517197019609288705/photo/1 I think Upper Bann, Foyle are wrong and possibly North Belfast as well.

    It seems unlikely that the UUP will only gain one seat overall instead of maybe two, I think they could well get a 2nd in Upper Bann for example and Diane Dodds could be a major scalp.
  • PB consensus is that they are innocent (probably)

    Still awkward to explain I think in front an investigative panel “it just opened up and I had no choice but to finger my way through it.”
    Its a hard one to explain.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    Rory Stewart says it is “insane” to think of England and Scotland as different countries

    https://www.thenational.wales/news/20092633.rory-stewart-insane-think-borders-cumbria-different-countries/
    Errrr saying that the border areas have quite a lot in common is some way from saying that Scotland doesn't have a distinct culture.

    The history of debatable lands rather suggests the locals thought that way :-)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070
    dixiedean said:

    Who the heck sends anyone porn?
    I have never felt the urge to send any. Nor have I ever received any.
    Maybe that's just me.

    And of course, define porn.

    “Porn? I was catching up on last episode of bridgeton!”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,933

    Its a hard one to explain.
    The full story won't be coming anytime soon I suspect.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    HYUFD said:

    You may not be able to afford to move to an expensive enough area that ensures even the non faith, non selective state schools are generally good
    I’m telling you what I would do, not what others would do
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,933
    I see Frosty the No man has made an interesting intervention.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070
    edited April 2022

    Its a hard one to explain.
    It could become hard, yes. And harder still the more they think about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177
    HYUFD said:

    You may not be able to afford to move to an expensive enough area that ensures even the non faith, non selective state schools are generally good
    On the religious schools - the churches have put in all kind of elaborate tests to smoke out the "Education Christians"* who frequent the back pews of various churches.

    I was actually referring to something more interesting. We happen to live in the catchment area for two primaries - one outstanding in every way. The other is the pits.

    The middle class people commit fraud to get into the good one. Literally. People have been done in court.

    The people who live join the council estates - some of which are literally next to the good school - universally send their children to the bad one. Nearly universally.

    A few, who are interested in education, send their kids to the good one. I used to reach out and talk to them - they tended to feel a bit isolated at parents gatherings etc. Listening to their accounts of being told "that place isn't for the likes of us", by their neighbours, was interesting.

    *The local RC Reverend liked the term - I explained I'd invented it by analogy to the Rice Christians who would turn up at missionary churches in China.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,778
    edited April 2022
    On mobileporngate, it seems to me relevant that the accused is a Tory MP, and the complainant and her corroborator are also both Tory MPs. Surely they must be pretty sure of their ground to go public (within their own party) against one of their own? It's obvious that it's not party politics being played out here.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,202
    Levelling Up!

    https://twitter.com/harry_horton/status/1519310302172655616?s=21&t=PxIYDYuffFSdhj6E0nqo7w

    1hr15min train journey from Huddersfield to Sheffield cancelled 5mins before departure.

    Next quickest (and more expensive) journey takes 1hr 40mins. It takes half the time to drive.

    It's been like this for my entire life and there's no imminent plan to improve it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070

    The Bank of England has printed money and bought the debt. Since we owe money to the Bank, but we own the Bank, we owe money to ourselves so its cancelled out.

    We still report the headline figure of how much we owe as the full debt total, including to the Bank, as it is a polite conceit to pretend that the Bank didn't print money in order to finance the debt.
    The only real danger from printing money like that is inflation. So it looks like we got away with it.
  • Evening all, just to say a huge thank you to Shadsy for tonight's Local Elections Preview at Smarkets, the panel was excellent as was the food, and lots of well-informed questions too.

    Great to see OGH and Quincel there as well as Stodge proudly sporting a beard :)

    It's a fantastic venue and evenings there are always really enjoyable.

    Hope everyone is keeping well!
  • Levelling Up!

    https://twitter.com/harry_horton/status/1519310302172655616?s=21&t=PxIYDYuffFSdhj6E0nqo7w

    1hr15min train journey from Huddersfield to Sheffield cancelled 5mins before departure.

    Next quickest (and more expensive) journey takes 1hr 40mins. It takes half the time to drive.

    It's been like this for my entire life and there's no imminent plan to improve it.

    If it takes half the time to drive, might I suggest driving might be a better option? 🤔

    Oh that's right, some people hate cars. Personal transportation can't be a good thing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,263

    I must have dull friends.
    Nobody sends me impromptu (or even promptu) porn.
    I got an explicit Angela Rayner meme today. "Ironic", of course.

    These are quite common.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,628

    Errrr saying that the border areas have quite a lot in common is some way from saying that Scotland doesn't have a distinct culture.

    The history of debatable lands rather suggests the locals thought that way :-)
    Reavers and Lemainers?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,915

    If it takes half the time to drive, might I suggest driving might be a better option? 🤔

    Oh that's right, some people hate cars. Personal transportation can't be a good thing.
    The roads aren't really that great either, nor is parking in Sheffield (Meadowhell perhaps, but now you are back on public transport).

    What's the Boring company doing these days? Get tunnelling.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070

    On mobileporngate, it seems to me relevant that the accused is a Tory MP, and the complainant and her corroborator are also both Tory MPs. Surely they must be pretty sure of their ground to go public (within their own party) against one of their own? It's obvious that it's not party politics being played out here.

    Apparently it was from a meeting of the Tory Backbench 2022 Committee, for women, which explains why Oliver Dowden was there (I’m not making any of this up) and porn/bridgerton gate was just one of a number of shocking allegations of out of order behaviour that came out of it. Apparently.

    On cumulative basis, is this going to give the media a “sleazey politicians” inspired fuckmule coming right on eve of the elections?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789

    Levelling Up!

    https://twitter.com/harry_horton/status/1519310302172655616?s=21&t=PxIYDYuffFSdhj6E0nqo7w

    1hr15min train journey from Huddersfield to Sheffield cancelled 5mins before departure.

    Next quickest (and more expensive) journey takes 1hr 40mins. It takes half the time to drive.

    It's been like this for my entire life and there's no imminent plan to improve it.

    Yes, but the Huddersfield to Sheffield line doesn't really serve that market, because the demand is very very small. It's not town-to-nearest-big-city - it'snit kike Huddersfield to Leeds or Rotherham to Sheffield. It's basically a village line serving Penistone and the smaller communities west of Barnsley. It's a line which was very very lucky to survive beeching.
    If you're one if the few people who makes that journey by public transport, that's bad luck for you - but also good luck that that journey exists at all. Unlike, say, Barnsley to Manchester or Bolton to Liverpool.
    I'm not saying rail transport in the North is good - but Huddersfield to Sheffield is not representative.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,521
    Superb snooker match between Higgins and Lisowski. 11 frames all, first to 13. Some superb shots been played in the 23rd frame.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,465


    Did any of the “God’s” say “I always read your pieces on PB for entertainment Stodge - but I read MoonRabbit for racing tips and to better understand what is happening in politics.”

    Nb. 600-800, not happening apparently, Rawling and Thrasher have -400 a disaster for Tories in mail today, on basis so many of these seats that are up are held by Labour on a high mark for them in 2018, so just Labour holds is actually not a bad Labour performance. The NS said a similar thing. In a way it means Boris is lucky, again, as losing 300 the media narrative will be better than expected for Tories, disappointing for Starmer, but the psephological experts won’t be listened to that this isn’t fair or true. Like you I have high hopes for good Libdem night. And it will be interesting watching greens, as con to green the Tory’s will shrug off as mid term government, but Labour to green will be horrible for Labour to explain.

    One of the problems this time is boundary changes mean a considerable number of "new" Wards have been created so using the Councillor numbers from last time as a basis to calculate the seat changes this time is misleading and inaccurate, one might argue, up there with some people's racing tips and understanding of politics.

    Don't forget we have a big round of all-up elections in Wales and Scotland as well as many English urban centres such as London and Birmingham along with the usual third-up councils.

    As an example, Labour will probably gain 6 seats in Newham without doing very much at all because the 20 3-member Wards are now 22 thanks to population growth. Some Councils have more seats, some fewer.

    For the Conservatives to lose 40-50% of the council seats being defended is melt down territory so I agree 800 looks overblown. Losing a quarter would mean 400-450 and that feels more sensible but again looking at the figures the scope for losses is outside London where the Conservatives made gains last time (as did Labour and the LDs as the UKIP local Government base was annihilated) rather than in London where the Conservatives lost 92 last time.

    The prediction in London is 71 more Conservative losses which would be 14% of the total. 30% outside London would be 250 on the old boundaries - add a few for the new boundaries and you get close to 400.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    If the choice in your area was 2 inadequate or requires improvement state schools and an outstanding faith school which needed a vicar's reference to get in I bet you would, especially if you could not afford to go private and there were no grammar schools in the area either.

    Hence churches in catchment areas of outstanding faith schools are often full when admissions for the new intake are coming round

    Easy. Close down the subsidised sectarian school and improve the two comprehensives with the resources.

    You want faith schooling? You pay for it out of your own pocket, not mine and everyone else's. This not very well hidden state subsidy of sectarianism is one of the biggest arguments for eradicating Establishment of a sect in (one of the nations of) the UK.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,600

    “Colour me x” is another one that has gently faded away. Although I did witness the irregular verbs make a cameo today.

    Agreed that “unspoofable” and “beyond parody” are ripe for revival.
    "Little 'Un?"

    Isn't that the entirely acceptable term that someone uses to refer to their offspring, that one particular PBer had a rather bizarre fit about?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    MattW said:

    "Little 'Un?"

    Isn't that the entirely acceptable term that someone uses to refer to their offspring, that one particular PBer had a rather bizarre fit about?
    Was it not applied to Mr Sunak? Or was that a rather more, erm, Disney-related term?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,155

    On mobileporngate, it seems to me relevant that the accused is a Tory MP, and the complainant and her corroborator are also both Tory MPs. Surely they must be pretty sure of their ground to go public (within their own party) against one of their own? It's obvious that it's not party politics being played out here.

    Read the room. The good men of PB have decided this poor Tory MP caught watching porn was the innocent victim of a harmless bit of banter from one of his many friends, who sent him a sexually explicit meme that's easy for the simple-minded women now allowed into the chamber to confuse with real porn. And that's okay!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,600
    Carnyx said:

    Was it not applied to Mr Sunak? Or was that a rather more, erm, Disney-related term?
    Disney-related? You have me at a disadvantage on that one.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789

    On mobileporngate, it seems to me relevant that the accused is a Tory MP, and the complainant and her corroborator are also both Tory MPs. Surely they must be pretty sure of their ground to go public (within their own party) against one of their own? It's obvious that it's not party politics being played out here.

    Not party politics. But if it did turn out the accused was entirely innocent it wouldn't be the first time a politician had been stitched up by his own side.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500

    The only real danger from printing money like that is inflation. So it looks like we got away with it.
    A timely piece for you:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/27/central-banks-risk-crashing-us-recession/

    "Ex-Fed chief Ben Bernanke famously said that QE does not work in theory, but does work in practice. Monetarists retort that QE has worked exactly as you would expect under the quantity theory of money.

    If they are right – and they have been right over the last two years – it implies that the abrupt switch from QE to QT is going to lead to a drastic slowdown in the broad money supply. This will set off an asset crash this year followed by economic mayhem next year if central banks do not back off in time."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited April 2022

    Errrr saying that the border areas have quite a lot in common is some way from saying that Scotland doesn't have a distinct culture.

    The history of debatable lands rather suggests the locals thought that way :-)
    The Debatable Lands were a relatively small part of the border, where the locals positively and knowingly exploited the different legal systems to create havoc - quite the opposite of a continuous spectrum.

    The other areas, I get the impression that the Border was much clearer (Tweed) or in the middle of **** all (high wasteland, with a clear watershed as at Carter Bar).

    Edit: In any case Rory the Tory knows **** all about the Border. Anybody whose idea of an indyref stunt was to have a human chain holding hands along Hadrian's Wall ... our colleague Gallowgate would not be impressed to have to relearn all his conveyancing law, for one thing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    Easy. Close down the subsidised sectarian school and improve the two comprehensives with the resources.

    You want faith schooling? You pay for it out of your own pocket, not mine and everyone else's. This not very well hidden state subsidy of sectarianism is one of the biggest arguments for eradicating Establishment of a sect in (one of the nations of) the UK.
    Typical attitude of you and the useless left, close down anything doing well so everything ends up crap. The end result would be 3 inadequate or requires improvement schools with no parental choice.

    We need more faith schools, more grammar schools, more free schools and more choice not less. If parents want to send their children to state schools with those of the same faith as their own they should be allowed to do so. Of course outstanding Roman Catholic schools are just as selective as outstanding Church of England schools
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    Reavers and Lemainers?
    Reavers and Reavers, mostly.

    "He stole my cattle in revenge for the cattle I stole from his cousin, who is actually my nephew, who stole cattle from my wife's brothers first cousin. Who is also a cousin of mine. I think I stole some of his cattle..."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,194

    And of course, define porn.

    “Porn? I was catching up on last episode of bridgeton!”
    Phones should be banned from the chamber. Or just put a Faraday cage around it during the rebuild.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    Helena Wilkinson
    @BBCHelena
    ·
    13m
    Thursday’s Independent: Javid used offshore trust while working at Treasury #tomorrowspaperstoday
  • HYUFD said:

    Typical attitude of you and the useless left, close down anything doing well so everything ends up crap. The end result would be 3 inadequate or requires improvement schools with no parental choice.

    We need more faith schools, more grammar schools, more free schools and more choice not less. If parents want to send their children to schools with those of the same faith as their own they should be allowed to do so. Of course outstanding Roman Catholic schools are just as selective as outstanding Church of England schools
    If parents want to send their children to schools with those of the same faith as their own, and are willing to pay for that, then that should be their choice.

    The taxpayer shouldn't be paying for sectarian discrimination.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    A lot of people think the LDs will lose control of Sutton council in south London.

    https://smarkets.com/event/42537689/politics/uk/2022-local-elections/sutton
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Reavers and Reavers, mostly.

    "He stole my cattle in revenge for the cattle I stole from his cousin, who is actually my nephew, who stole cattle from my wife's brothers first cousin. Who is also a cousin of mine. I think I stole some of his cattle..."
    That's not really true - it was feuds between clans (reflected by the distance which they rode on their raids).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    Foxy said:

    Phones should be banned from the chamber. Or just put a Faraday cage around it during the rebuild.
    I agree. None of them are listening to the debate. They are all on their phones. I had assumed updating and checking twitter to make it look like they relevant, but seems just watching porn.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,465
    Andy_JS said:

    A lot of people think the LDs will lose control of Sutton council in south London.

    https://smarkets.com/event/42537689/politics/uk/2022-local-elections/sutton

    No, they don't. I was at the event - one person expressed it as a "slight possibility" but more to suggest it was more likely than the Conservatives taking control.

    Tony Travers pointed out the LDs had run the Borough for a long time but made no other inference.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    MattW said:

    "Little 'Un?"

    Isn't that the entirely acceptable term that someone uses to refer to their offspring, that one particular PBer had a rather bizarre fit about?
    I hadn’t heard that but assumed it was about the Cote, as several PBers seem completely, weirdly obsessed with his height.

    (I’m not a fan, there are many things one can reasonably criticise him for, but his height isn’t one of them)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    Typical attitude of you and the useless left, close down anything doing well so everything ends up crap. The end result would be 3 inadequate or requires improvement schools with no parental choice.

    We need more faith schools, more grammar schools, more free schools and more choice not less. If parents want to send their children to state schools with those of the same faith as their own they should be allowed to do so. Of course outstanding Roman Catholic schools are just as selective as outstanding Church of England schools
    I'm not a leftie, but of course you think that Genghis Khan was a parlour pinko anyway.

    Have you not considered that

    (a) it is an outrage for public money to be spent on your pet sectarian stuff
    (b) it is people like your spending public resources on your pet sectarian schools that cause major efficiency and fairness issues?
    (c) it is people like you taking no interest in the non-faith or non-posh schools that causes a major part of the problem with state education>
  • MattW said:

    Disney-related? You have me at a disadvantage on that one.
    Disney's original movie was Snow White and the Seven ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177
    Carnyx said:

    That's not really true - it was feuds between clans (reflected by the distance which they rode on their raids).
    Have you looked at the family trees? Intermarriage was rather common.

    Several times, the national government on both sides realised that while they made excellent light cavalry, the err... gentlemen of the borders could not be relied upon to fight each other. Because family/business.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789

    If parents want to send their children to schools with those of the same faith as their own, and are willing to pay for that, then that should be their choice.

    The taxpayer shouldn't be paying for sectarian discrimination.
    My main beef with faith schools is that I don't get the option of an atheist school for my kids. As far as I can see, most nominally secular schools also teach God. I think there is still a requirement for a collective act of worship.
    And if you live in the countryside, from what I can see pretty much all schools are CofE. Country dwellers don't appear to get a choice.
    If we're to allow faith schools, we should also allow faithless schools.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    MattW said:

    Disney-related? You have me at a disadvantage on that one.
    Don't want to repeat the term. Not fair on him. But there have been references to his height, also not fair on him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992

    If parents want to send their children to schools with those of the same faith as their own, and are willing to pay for that, then that should be their choice.

    The taxpayer shouldn't be paying for sectarian discrimination.
    The taxpayer pays for academic discrimination in areas with grammar schools, the taxpayer pays in part for private sponsorship in academy schools too now, there is no reason the taxpayer cannot also pay for state faith schools. Parents in faith schools also pay their taxes to fund children who attend secular non religious schools after all
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    In PutinWorld, Ukraine doesn't exist. There's a province of West Russia where they talk a bit funny, that's all. So Russia is just doing an Internal Special Operation.

    It's a fairly good "tell" of Russians who support this stuff - they will tell you there is no such thing as a Ukrainian language, culture etc..
    The trouble is he can't sell it to his own people in its own terms. It was a special operation in the Donbass. He has not tried to make the case for invasion in terms of imperial grandeur or Russians and Ukrainians being the same people. As disturbing as the fascistic event in the football stadium was it appears many of the audience were goaded into attending as public employees or offered a day off work. The trouble is that most Russians appear to accept that what Ukrainians do is up to them. Hence the wild rumours needed about biolabs, Nazis, nuclear weapons and genocide suggesting Russia is in imminent danger. Don't forget that the 'disputed' territories would not be incorporated into Russia but become new independent people's republics.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992
    edited April 2022
    Cookie said:

    My main beef with faith schools is that I don't get the option of an atheist school for my kids. As far as I can see, most nominally secular schools also teach God. I think there is still a requirement for a collective act of worship.
    And if you live in the countryside, from what I can see pretty much all schools are CofE. Country dwellers don't appear to get a choice.
    If we're to allow faith schools, we should also allow faithless schools.
    You do, you could now set up an atheist free school if you wanted to.

    Plus parents can withdraw their children from faith assemblies if they wish
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MattW said:

    "Little 'Un?"

    Isn't that the entirely acceptable term that someone uses to refer to their offspring, that one particular PBer had a rather bizarre fit about?
    I was just trying to save him a few keystrokes.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,155
    Cookie said:

    My main beef with faith schools is that I don't get the option of an atheist school for my kids. As far as I can see, most nominally secular schools also teach God. I think there is still a requirement for a collective act of worship.
    And if you live in the countryside, from what I can see pretty much all schools are CofE. Country dwellers don't appear to get a choice.
    If we're to allow faith schools, we should also allow faithless schools.
    It still makes the national news in Ireland when a school converts from being Catholic to non-denominational. CofE schools are relatively benign in comparison. Certainly didn't manage to instil any faith into my daughter.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177
    Carnyx said:

    I'm not a leftie, but of course you think that Genghis Khan was a parlour pinko anyway.

    Have you not considered that

    (a) it is an outrage for public money to be spent on your pet sectarian stuff
    (b) it is people like your spending public resources on your pet sectarian schools that cause major efficiency and fairness issues?
    (c) it is people like you taking no interest in the non-faith or non-posh schools that causes a major part of the problem with state education>
    I like the idea of the CoE as sectarian.

    Mind you. I've been considering founding an extremist, fundamentalist offshoot of the Unitarians.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789

    I agree. None of them are listening to the debate. They are all on their phones. I had assumed updating and checking twitter to make it look like they relevant, but seems just watching porn.
    Yes, there was an incident a few years back of someone playing candy crush. Which is leß embarrassing than porn but still not really what I would expect of an MP.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,304
    Carnyx said:

    The Debatable Lands were a relatively small part of the border, where the locals positively and knowingly exploited the different legal systems to create havoc - quite the opposite of a continuous spectrum.

    The other areas, I get the impression that the Border was much clearer (Tweed) or in the middle of **** all (high wasteland, with a clear watershed as at Carter Bar).

    Edit: In any case Rory the Tory knows **** all about the Border. Anybody whose idea of an indyref stunt was to have a human chain holding hands along Hadrian's Wall ... our colleague Gallowgate would not be impressed to have to relearn all his conveyancing law, for one thing.
    Looking forward to Rory the spook extolling all the things that folk in the Donetsk have in common with those in Luhansk.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070
    stodge said:

    One of the problems this time is boundary changes mean a considerable number of "new" Wards have been created so using the Councillor numbers from last time as a basis to calculate the seat changes this time is misleading and inaccurate, one might argue, up there with some people's racing tips and understanding of politics.

    Don't forget we have a big round of all-up elections in Wales and Scotland as well as many English urban centres such as London and Birmingham along with the usual third-up councils.

    As an example, Labour will probably gain 6 seats in Newham without doing very much at all because the 20 3-member Wards are now 22 thanks to population growth. Some Councils have more seats, some fewer.

    For the Conservatives to lose 40-50% of the council seats being defended is melt down territory so I agree 800 looks overblown. Losing a quarter would mean 400-450 and that feels more sensible but again looking at the figures the scope for losses is outside London where the Conservatives made gains last time (as did Labour and the LDs as the UKIP local Government base was annihilated) rather than in London where the Conservatives lost 92 last time.

    The prediction in London is 71 more Conservative losses which would be 14% of the total. 30% outside London would be 250 on the old boundaries - add a few for the new boundaries and you get close to 400.
    Gary Burton in reply to HY made a solid point which caught my eye.

    Since Boris been leader the Tories have had good locals - so in places like Swindon where part of the council is up, Tories took such a good grip last year no sort of good night there for Labour can much dent Tory control, and it’s same like that a lot of places where part of council is up. There aren’t many “council gained” headlines available for Labour. In terms of media narrative it’s easy to see it portrayed as flat night for Starmer more than bad night for Boris. I think this is what serious psephologicals are trying to get us to realise. It’s not going to be a night of spectacular headlines that’s somblack and white to call whose doing well and bad. Like “Labour have flipped Swindon, key target in general election” “Tory’s remain in control of Swindon, a Key marginal Labour must gain if they are to oust Boris.”

    You see what I mean. We need to prepare ourselves for devil being in the detail. We probably can’t argue over till Saturday.

    And of course Libdem and Greens havn’t had the hoped for good night against Stay at home Tories yet either. It’s the hoping and anticipation that is so stressful. Another week to go! 🫣
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,588

    Indeed but even if another MP sent it, it’s not the fault of the receiver.
    Did Angela Rayner send him a picture of her legs?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,450
    edited April 2022
    Didn't Jack Dromey get caught up in a similar issue where he favourited a gay porn twitter account, which he claims came up when he was searching twitter to get some info, it came up and he accidentally hit favourite it.

    If the story was they caught the MP having a wank in their office or something seems more likely series of events than casually watching a load of humping in the middle of a debate.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Disney's original movie was Snow White and the Seven ...
    I learn from the Telegraph that 'Dean Acheson told Roosevelt in August 1941, four months prior to Pearl Harbor, that “no rational Japanese could believe an attack on us could result in anything but disaster for his country”. '

    Reassuring similar to your position on rational Russians.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992
    Carnyx said:

    I'm not a leftie, but of course you think that Genghis Khan was a parlour pinko anyway.

    Have you not considered that

    (a) it is an outrage for public money to be spent on your pet sectarian stuff
    (b) it is people like your spending public resources on your pet sectarian schools that cause major efficiency and fairness issues?
    (c) it is people like you taking no interest in the non-faith or non-posh schools that causes a major part of the problem with state education>
    Yes you are, you are a died in the wool pinko socialist, near Communist Scottish nationalist.

    No, it is not an outrage for public money to be spent on outstanding faith schools producing highly educated pupils to benefit all of us. I am a conservative with an ideological commitment to choice in education as much as the economy, so no I actually think it improves efficiency.

    I don't believe in lowest common denominator education, the more private schools, grammar schools and free and faith schools the better as far as I am concerned
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I like the idea of the CoE as sectarian.

    Mind you. I've been considering founding an extremist, fundamentalist offshoot of the Unitarians.
    Well, the Unitarians were literally guilty of treason under the sectarian C of E until 1813 in England. That's why so many Unitarian meetings were called Presbyterian, to cover it up. Really confusing to find some chap born c 1810 in two apparently different churches.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    Cookie said:

    Yes, there was an incident a few years back of someone playing candy crush. Which is leß embarrassing than porn but still not really what I would expect of an MP.
    It's ridiculous. Kids aren't allowed to use phones during lessons because, erm, they are supposed to be concentrating on what the teacher is saying. MPs should be listening to the debate in the same way.

    I guess I am old fashioned.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    @Cookie

    Opponents in front of you, enemies behind you.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    The trouble is he can't sell it to his own people in its own terms. It was a special operation in the Donbass. He has not tried to make the case for invasion in terms of imperial grandeur or Russians and Ukrainians being the same people. As disturbing as the fascistic event in the football stadium was it appears many of the audience were goaded into attending as public employees or offered a day off work. The trouble is that most Russians appear to accept that what Ukrainians do is up to them. Hence the wild rumours needed about biolabs, Nazis, nuclear weapons and genocide suggesting Russia is in imminent danger. Don't forget that the 'disputed' territories would not be incorporated into Russia but become new independent people's republics.
    No - the Greater Russian Nationalist line is that Ukrainians are just a perverted form of Russian who need properly educating (with lots of high explosive) until they learn to behave properly again.

    The "independent people's republics" will be Russian in character and listen to Mother Russia in all things. Think obedient children. Look at what Putin achieved in Chechnya....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,521
    Higgins v Lisowski goes to the 25th and final frame....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,304
    HYUFD said:


    Yes you are, you are a died in the wool pinko socialist, near Communist Scottish nationalist.

    Golly, on the second Croft Original!
  • IshmaelZ said:

    I learn from the Telegraph that 'Dean Acheson told Roosevelt in August 1941, four months prior to Pearl Harbor, that “no rational Japanese could believe an attack on us could result in anything but disaster for his country”. '

    Reassuring similar to your position on rational Russians.
    As I said, the Russians may not end up being rational, but if so that's their choice not ours.

    We shouldn't back down and let them get away with shit due to the fear of their irrationality - and its good that we're not doing so.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,933
    I'm a border reiver family. One of the many joys of living in the NE is not having to spell my surname as in Lancashire.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992

    Gary Burton in reply to HY made a solid point which caught my eye.

    Since Boris been leader the Tories have had good locals - so in places like Swindon where part of the council is up, Tories took such a good grip last year no sort of good night there for Labour can much dent Tory control, and it’s same like that a lot of places where part of council is up. There aren’t many “council gained” headlines available for Labour. In terms of media narrative it’s easy to see it portrayed as flat night for Starmer more than bad night for Boris. I think this is what serious psephologicals are trying to get us to realise. It’s not going to be a night of spectacular headlines that’s somblack and white to call whose doing well and bad. Like “Labour have flipped Swindon, key target in general election” “Tory’s remain in control of Swindon, a Key marginal Labour must gain if they are to oust Boris.”

    You see what I mean. We need to prepare ourselves for devil being in the detail. We probably can’t argue over till Saturday.

    And of course Libdem and Greens havn’t had the hoped for good night against Stay at home Tories yet either. It’s the hoping and anticipation that is so stressful. Another week to go! 🫣
    Swindon is 36 Conservative councillors and 20 Labour councillors. 9 Tory council seats in Swindon are up in May so if Labour won all of them they would take control of Swindon council
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070

    Disney's original movie was Snow White and the Seven ...
    It’s why Snow White loved lemonade. 7up in particular.

    (Has TSE already done this joke, about 7 years before I joined?)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    Yes you are, you are a died in the wool pinko socialist, near Communist Scottish nationalist.

    No, it is not an outrage for public money to be spent on outstanding faith schools producing highly educated pupils to benefit all of us. I am a conservative with an ideological commitment to choice in education as much as the economy, so no I actually think it improves efficiency.

    I don't believe in lowest common denominator education, the more private schools, grammar schools and free and faith schools the better as far as I am concerned
    Hoy, I'm not a near-communist or a pinko - so you had better rethink your proselytising skills. Not to mention your analytical ones.

    And "faith schools" producing highly educated pupils? What are you on? Incense?

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    Read the room. The good men of PB have decided this poor Tory MP caught watching porn was the innocent victim of a harmless bit of banter from one of his many friends, who sent him a sexually explicit meme that's easy for the simple-minded women now allowed into the chamber to confuse with real porn. And that's okay!
    Well I just suggested the possibility that it was a WhatsApp group text - purely because I find it completely outlandish/bonkers/barmy that anyone would think of deliberately watching porn in the Commons chamber.

    Maybe I am just naive!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,500
    Has she dyed her hair?



  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    edited April 2022

    Gary Burton in reply to HY made a solid point which caught my eye.

    Since Boris been leader the Tories have had good locals - so in places like Swindon where part of the council is up, Tories took such a good grip last year no sort of good night there for Labour can much dent Tory control, and it’s same like that a lot of places where part of council is up. There aren’t many “council gained” headlines available for Labour. In terms of media narrative it’s easy to see it portrayed as flat night for Starmer more than bad night for Boris. I think this is what serious psephologicals are trying to get us to realise. It’s not going to be a night of spectacular headlines that’s somblack and white to call whose doing well and bad. Like “Labour have flipped Swindon, key target in general election” “Tory’s remain in control of Swindon, a Key marginal Labour must gain if they are to oust Boris.”

    You see what I mean. We need to prepare ourselves for devil being in the detail. We probably can’t argue over till Saturday.

    And of course Libdem and Greens havn’t had the hoped for good night against Stay at home Tories yet either. It’s the hoping and anticipation that is so stressful. Another week to go! 🫣
    I think vote share is most important in those places TBH. But Starmer will be probably be able to spin a reasonable result in the South if Labour gains majorities in Worthing, Crawley and Southampton (possibly). Also I can see Labour gaining seats in Portsmouth from both LDs and Conservatives.

    For Labour to regain Plymouth they'd probably need to make massive inroads in Jonny Mercer's seat which seems implausible.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Carnyx said:

    The Debatable Lands were a relatively small part of the border, where the locals positively and knowingly exploited the different legal systems to create havoc - quite the opposite of a continuous spectrum.

    The other areas, I get the impression that the Border was much clearer (Tweed) or in the middle of **** all (high wasteland, with a clear watershed as at Carter Bar).

    Edit: In any case Rory the Tory knows **** all about the Border. Anybody whose idea of an indyref stunt was to have a human chain holding hands along Hadrian's Wall ... our colleague Gallowgate would not be impressed to have to relearn all his conveyancing law, for one thing.
    On my only drive through Carter Bar, it literally started snowing just as we crossed into Scotland at the top of the hill. Very memorable welcome!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177

    Looking forward to Rory the spook extolling all the things that folk in the Donetsk have in common with those in Luhansk.
    They actually have a great deal in common - it is a theme in Zelensky's speeches.

    Having polite discussions about where borders should go, given the fact that the people down the road don't suddenly have two heads and three arms because of a magical line on a map... That's the whole bit that Putin doesn't get. But Zelensky does.
  • stodge said:

    No, they don't. I was at the event - one person expressed it as a "slight possibility" but more to suggest it was more likely than the Conservatives taking control.

    Tony Travers pointed out the LDs had run the Borough for a long time but made no other inference.
    It's a fairly tricky Lib Dem defence in that it's fairly Brexit-y and they've run it for so long that they cannot avoid responsibility (no "of course, when you consider the terrible position the last lot left it in...")

    On the other hand, the very fact they've held it so long illustrates their campaigning strength, and it's not likely to be a vintage Tory year.

    So I'd say low, but not no, chance of an upset.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070

    A timely piece for you:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/04/27/central-banks-risk-crashing-us-recession/

    "Ex-Fed chief Ben Bernanke famously said that QE does not work in theory, but does work in practice. Monetarists retort that QE has worked exactly as you would expect under the quantity theory of money.

    If they are right – and they have been right over the last two years – it implies that the abrupt switch from QE to QT is going to lead to a drastic slowdown in the broad money supply. This will set off an asset crash this year followed by economic mayhem next year if central banks do not back off in time."
    Yes I was going to put in my previous post that it’s a question of getting timing right.

    Asset crash then - do you mean property?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,177
    Carnyx said:

    Hoy, I'm not a near-communist or a pinko - so you had better rethink your proselytising skills. Not to mention your analytical ones.

    And "faith schools" producing highly educated pupils? What are you on? Incense?

    Some do achieve remarkable results - there's a reason that the back pews in certain churches are stuffed with bored people on their mobiles...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    I agree. None of them are listening to the debate. They are all on their phones. I had assumed updating and checking twitter to make it look like they relevant, but seems just watching porn.
    Are all of them watching porn?!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992
    Carnyx said:

    Hoy, I'm not a near-communist or a pinko - so you had better rethink your proselytising skills. Not to mention your analytical ones.

    And "faith schools" producing highly educated pupils? What are you on? Incense?

    '83 per cent of pupils in Church of England schools, and 85 per cent of pupils in Roman Catholic schools achieved level 4+ in reading writing and mathematics, compared to 81 percent in non-faith schools.

    60.6 per cent of pupils in Church of England schools, and 63.2 per cent of pupils in Roman Catholic schools, achieved five good GCSEs, including English and mathematics, compared to 57.4 per cent of pupils in non-faith secondary schools'
    https://epi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Pupil_characteristics_and_performance_at_faith_schools.pdf
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070
    Carnyx said:

    The Debatable Lands were a relatively small part of the border, where the locals positively and knowingly exploited the different legal systems to create havoc - quite the opposite of a continuous spectrum.

    The other areas, I get the impression that the Border was much clearer (Tweed) or in the middle of **** all (high wasteland, with a clear watershed as at Carter Bar).

    Edit: In any case Rory the Tory knows **** all about the Border. Anybody whose idea of an indyref stunt was to have a human chain holding hands along Hadrian's Wall ... our colleague Gallowgate would not be impressed to have to relearn all his conveyancing law, for one thing.
    And you are not supposed to walk on Hadrians Wall. I was told to get down. 🫢
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited April 2022
    HYUFD said:

    '83 per cent of pupils in Church of England schools, and 85 per cent of pupils in Roman Catholic schools achieved level 4+ in reading writing and mathematics, compared to 81 percent in non-faith schools.

    60.6 per cent of pupils in Church of England schools, and 63.2 per cent of pupils in Roman Catholic schools, achieved five good GCSEs, including English and mathematics, compared to 57.4 per cent of pupils in non-faith secondary schools'
    https://epi.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Pupil_characteristics_and_performance_at_faith_schools.pdf
    Bercause people like you are in charge and direct resources and interest at the schools you prefer.

    And because you and your ilk select the pupils, however unconsciously.
  • Well I just suggested the possibility that it was a WhatsApp group text - purely because I find it completely outlandish/bonkers/barmy that anyone would think of deliberately watching porn in the Commons chamber.

    Maybe I am just naive!!
    The psychology is power and risk. There are people who do things to assert dominance, and because they can, but also get a thrill from the danger.

    They're awful... but that's how it works.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,789

    On my only drive through Carter Bar, it literally started snowing just as we crossed into Scotland at the top of the hill. Very memorable welcome!
    According to these guys, the border between England and Scotland is several million years old.
    https://youtu.be/9DqZYsckBwI
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    HYUFD said:

    You do, you could now set up an atheist free school if you wanted to.

    Plus parents can withdraw their children from faith assemblies if they wish
    Would it be possible to establish a satanist free school?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    And you are not supposed to walk on Hadrians Wall. I was told to get down. 🫢
    Exactly; En glish Heritage pointed that out - and rubbed it in by pointing out he needed to payt for a Portaloo every x hundred metres of event.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Cookie said:

    According to these guys, the border between England and Scotland is several million years old.
    https://youtu.be/9DqZYsckBwI
    several hundred surely - Palaeozoic.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,992

    Would it be possible to establish a satanist free school?
    Yes, provided it was not doing anything illegal and got good results
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,521

    And you are not supposed to walk on Hadrians Wall. I was told to get down. 🫢
    What, by Hadrian?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    Carnyx said:

    You're misreading; there are no limits rather than a limit of zero. I.e. a single carer can have infinite children to look after.
    I don't know about Denmark, but in Germany there are certainly strict limits on how many children can be looked after per carer. It's regulated by the Bundesländer, but so far as I know all Bundesländer have limits.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,588
    Carnyx said:

    Easy. Close down the subsidised sectarian school and improve the two comprehensives with the resources.

    You want faith schooling? You pay for it out of your own pocket, not mine and everyone else's. This not very well hidden state subsidy of sectarianism is one of the biggest arguments for eradicating Establishment of a sect in (one of the nations of) the UK.
    Judging by the Glasgow Rangers supporting pupils, we have plenty of sectarian schools in Ayrshire, funded by the state.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,304

    They actually have a great deal in common - it is a theme in Zelensky's speeches.

    Having polite discussions about where borders should go, given the fact that the people down the road don't suddenly have two heads and three arms because of a magical line on a map... That's the whole bit that Putin doesn't get. But Zelensky does.
    To adapt your favoured term, a greater British nationalist describing the possibilty of 2 areas on either side of a border as belonging to 2 different countries as 'insane' is hardly a polite discussion, but chácun a son goût.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,070

    What, by Hadrian?
    Thus was only eleven years ago!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,155

    Well I just suggested the possibility that it was a WhatsApp group text - purely because I find it completely outlandish/bonkers/barmy that anyone would think of deliberately watching porn in the Commons chamber.

    Maybe I am just naive!!
    Was on a Skype for Business call, back in the day, with someone sharing their screen who had a pornhub tab open on their browser. People tell stories of people watching porn on public transport.

    This sort of thing happens by degrees. People get obsessed by it and desensitised, and don't realise what they're doing. It initially sounds shocking, but then it seems kinda inevitable that someone would do it eventually.

    That, or the whole point of watching it was to be seen watching it, and thereby intimidate people. That also happens and it is encouraged by an environment of impunity, where people are seen to be doing wrong, and not being held to account for it.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,562
    edited April 2022
    Cookie said:

    Yes, but the Huddersfield to Sheffield line doesn't really serve that market, because the demand is very very small. It's not town-to-nearest-big-city - it'snit kike Huddersfield to Leeds or Rotherham to Sheffield. It's basically a village line serving Penistone and the smaller communities west of Barnsley. It's a line which was very very lucky to survive beeching.
    If you're one if the few people who makes that journey by public transport, that's bad luck for you - but also good luck that that journey exists at all. Unlike, say, Barnsley to Manchester or Bolton to Liverpool.
    I'm not saying rail transport in the North is good - but Huddersfield to Sheffield is not representative.
    When I commuted Huddersfield-Sheffield the train was very strictly for booze ups only - car beat it hands down. I did once narrowly avoid the 3 hours journey time last bus replacement service, and once we turfed off the broken down train in Stocksmoor, which was a short hike to the village edge to find phone reception and book a shared taxi towards town. If you wanted to cut down on car at all, you would drive to the Supertram park & ride at Middlewood, which was a decent option.

    It got worse when we lost the interleaving option to go via Wakefield Westgate, they decided the single carriage Huddersfield- Wakefield service would no longer reverse the corner from Kirkgate, though I don't know if 'not Leeds' is still stipulated on Hud-Shf ticket.

    At one point they were plotting tram-trains and higher service frequency, mainly SY focussed, but would have improved that service. Don't know what became of that idea.
This discussion has been closed.