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For cabinet ministers this could be a career-defining issue – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,763

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Applicant said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    It is mildly annoying how the media simply state that there has been wrongdoing as a fact now. The FPN is an offer to accept a fine. If it is not taken up the matter has to go to court and guilt or innocence is then determined. The view of the Met is simply that.

    You're the lawyer, not me, but surely the reason FPNs are a thing is because they cover things that either happen, or didn't?

    If you are caught on camera doing 75mph in a 60mph zone, there isn't a question of whether the offence took place. It did. Therefore, why waste the time of a court?

    Similarly, if you are photographed attending an event that was not essential for work, it took place. And was illegal. Therefore, why go to court?

    Arguably, if he gets an FPN which is presumably three figures rather than five, and AIUI does not carry a criminal record, he's getting off pretty lightly compared to others who organised parties.

    What this whole episode, coupled with Cummings, does show is how extraordinarily slack and complacent the cabinet and government were about following their own procedures. No wonder Covid was such an issue among them!
    I'm not sure the parallel works. Recotrded speed is a question of fact, whether a gathering was reasonably necessary for work a question of opinion.
    If you will explain to me the circumstances under which it is 'reasonably necessary' to serve alcohol for work purposes, or indeed to mark somebody's birthday, I will concede your point.
    You work in a brewery?
    Generally you wouldn't serve alcohol ina brewery. Drunk workers cause accidents.
    I remember hearing of one brewery where the policy was:

    Drink as much as you want for free, but if you are drunk, you get sacked.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rci48w6Qbm0
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,531
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Prime Minister’s wife, Carrie Johnson, has paid a fixed penalty notice relating to a gathering on the afternoon of June 19 2020, and “apologises unreservedly”, a spokesperson for Mrs Johnson has said.

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1513919815852957696

    She said this morning she hadn't received it yet!

    Got that chequebook out PDQ
    This must imply intention to run with the cake-ambush defence: she was single handedly responsible for breach (as suggested, poss facetiously, by someone here this pm). Doesn't get round the lying point mind.
    Boris now reported to be paying his fine without challenge.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Leon said:

    New Scottish Independence poll, BMG 25 - 31 Mar (changes vs 27 - 30 Apr 21):

    No ~ 49% (+2)
    Yes ~ 43% (-4)
    Don’t Know ~ 8% (+1)

    Excluding Don’t Knows ( / vs 2014):
    No ~ 53% (+3 / -2)
    Yes ~ 47% (-3 / +2)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1513919690967601153

    It should be noted that a "Yes/No" question elicits more support for separation than "Remain/Leave".

    The power of how we ask questions

    Should Scotland be an independent country?
    Yes 47%
    No 53%

    Should Scotland Remain in or Leave the UK?
    Remain 59%
    Leave 41%

    YouGov/These Islands March 31


    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1513830451487649797

    This is a rather old poll, discussed thoroughly at the time? Or am I missing something?
    I think full tables just out.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,200
    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,826
    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
    "Satisfactory" Trains?
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    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    Leon said:

    SLAB revival?

    New Scottish Westminster poll, BMG 25 - 31 Mar (changes vs 27 - 30 Apr 21):

    SNP ~ 42% (-6)
    Lab ~ 26% (+6)
    Con ~ 19% (-1)
    LD ~ 6% (-1)
    Grn ~ 4% (+1)


    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1513919411417235465

    Yes, I think there's enough evidence from a range of polls to suggest a modest but still significant revival in Labour's fortunes in Scotland. That could be very important in a couple of year's time.
    Yes. it is possible that Labour have begun the long slow climb back to relevance in Scotland

    But I emphasise POSSIBLE - because this depends on the SNP's eternal hegemony finally crumbling, and that has been predicted, unsuccessfully, many times, not least by me

    However all things must pass, even the supremacy of Sturgeon and the SNP-in-power, even they cannot escape the fate of Nineveh and Tyre
    'Hegemony' ius a fine word, but arguably not accurate for a minority government (until recently) and a fairly semi-formal coalition-lite.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Covid Cluedo:

    It was Bozo, in the Cabinet Room, with a Birthday Cake.

    No, it's a trick question, a la Orient Express. It was All of Them, Everywhere, with the Birthday Cake.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108

    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
    I'm planning a train ride tomorrow. Hastings to Brighton. Then on to Arundel to visit the castle and cathedral.
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    Boris Johnson says that getting caught breaking the law gives him "an even greater sense of obligation" to fulfil "levelling up" and "deliver priorities.” 🤨

    Tone deaf
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,200
    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    Maybe Chamberlain shouldn't have been replaced in 1940?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    You missed the Wall.
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,050

    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
    Trans trains ?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584

    The 🇬🇧 changed PM
    👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan
    👉🏻in the Iraq War
    👉🏻in the Gulf War
    👉🏻in the Korean War
    👉🏻in the Second World War
    👉🏻in the First World War
    👉🏻in the Second Boer War
    👉🏻in the Second Opium War
    👉🏻in the Crimean War
    👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War


    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1513915021239193614

    Five times during the Napoleonic wars: Addington, Pitt, Grenville, Portland, Perceval, Liverpool!
    Wasn't there a c hange from Pitt to Addington as well?
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Very interesting. He is confident he can shut it down at this stage.

    What does Sunak do now?
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,174
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
    I'm planning a train ride tomorrow. Hastings to Brighton. Then on to Arundel to visit the castle and cathedral.
    There are some good pubs in Arundel. And in Hastings and Brighton! 🍺
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,319
    Pagan2 said:

    ~YouGov:

    Johnson knowingly lied? 75% Yes 12% No

    Should Johnson resign? 57% Yes 30% No

    Should Sunak resign? 57% Yes 29% No

    Given that 57% in 2019 did not vote tory in 2019 why would this poll indicate anything who didn't vote for them still doesn't want them in power?
    61-31 with Savanta ComRes. Apparently only 52% of 2019 Conservative voters think he should stay on.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Carrie Johnson has "apologised unreservedly" for her lockdown breach on June 19 2020 and has paid her fine, her spokeswoman said. https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1513922287107518465?s=20&t=rIc6lVCp-NmFtHkTC8M9Yg
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108
    Carnyx said:

    The 🇬🇧 changed PM
    👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan
    👉🏻in the Iraq War
    👉🏻in the Gulf War
    👉🏻in the Korean War
    👉🏻in the Second World War
    👉🏻in the First World War
    👉🏻in the Second Boer War
    👉🏻in the Second Opium War
    👉🏻in the Crimean War
    👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War


    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1513915021239193614

    Five times during the Napoleonic wars: Addington, Pitt, Grenville, Portland, Perceval, Liverpool!
    Wasn't there a c hange from Pitt to Addington as well?
    Technically that was a different war, as there were the Revolutionary Wars (1793-1802) and the Napoleonic Wars (1803-1814 and 1815).

    Although they're often lumped together now.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,937
    Pagan2 said:

    ~YouGov:

    Johnson knowingly lied? 75% Yes 12% No

    Should Johnson resign? 57% Yes 30% No

    Should Sunak resign? 57% Yes 29% No

    Given that 57% in 2019 did not vote tory in 2019 why would this poll indicate anything who didn't vote for them still doesn't want them in power?
    64% of Conservative voters and 53% of Leave voters think Boris should remain in his role however yes
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/04/12/c5ce0/1
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    Taz said:

    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
    Trans trains ?
    https://newsdesk.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/news/avanti-west-coast-launches-the-uks-first-fully-wrapped-pride-train-staffed-by-all-lgbtq-crew

    Makes a change from Southern Railway Malachite Green.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108
    edited April 2022

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    Maybe Chamberlain shouldn't have been replaced in 1940?
    Given he died in 1940 six months after leaving office that would have been a little difficult.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976
    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Very interesting. He is confident he can shut it down at this stage.

    What does Sunak do now?
    What happens if Johnson gets multiple fines for multiple events?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    Maybe Chamberlain shouldn't have been replaced in 1940?
    Given he died in 1940 that would have been a little difficult.
    Yes, but not till after he was replaced, so that wasn't the primary motivation.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108

    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Very interesting. He is confident he can shut it down at this stage.

    What does Sunak do now?
    What happens if Johnson gets multiple fines for multiple events?
    He has to seek the sustenance of the Daily Telegraph?

    How about their new crime reporter?
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,826
    edited April 2022
    TimT said:

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    You missed the Wall.
    The conservative party much as I despise them aren't fascists however. If you take the tack they because they are going large on tax and spend that they are fascists then so must the labour party be.

    Labelling those you dislike politically as fascist is facile

    (sorry was meant to be a reply to rpjs)
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    And the Tories will still claim that theirs is a patriotic party that believes in democracy. And people on here and elsewhere will agree. Bizarre!
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,445
    Sky News seem surprised by this.

    "Cost of living crisis: More people are worried about their finances than about catching COVID-19
    The changes reflect concerns about the rise in the cost of living, while the lifting of COVID restrictions in England has affected how people view the virus risk."

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-crisis-more-people-are-worried-about-their-finances-than-about-catching-covid-19-12588366
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108
    edited April 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    Maybe Chamberlain shouldn't have been replaced in 1940?
    Given he died in 1940 that would have been a little difficult.
    Yes, but not till after he was replaced, so that wasn't the primary motivation.
    You beat me to the edit!

    Edit - perhaps the more obvious answer is he should have been replaced in March 1939 when Hitler abrogated the Munich Agreement. But there wasn't an obvious successor at that stage who would have done noticeably better.
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    This will be the photo that will end Boris Johnson as the fines roll in.


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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Just a hint of a feeling that this is building to an Owen Paterson moment, where you think it's outrageous but he's going to get away with it because that's what he does, and over the next 24 hours the tide turns...

    Probably wrong tho
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,747
    The unbelievable power of dall-e 2



    ‘Can’t get enough of DALL-E examples. Mind blown. 🤯’

    https://twitter.com/jelleprins/status/1513767494850592769?s=21&t=Ji706gj2K3oHVmmRKk8H1A
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    Carnyx said:

    The 🇬🇧 changed PM
    👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan
    👉🏻in the Iraq War
    👉🏻in the Gulf War
    👉🏻in the Korean War
    👉🏻in the Second World War
    👉🏻in the First World War
    👉🏻in the Second Boer War
    👉🏻in the Second Opium War
    👉🏻in the Crimean War
    👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War


    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1513915021239193614

    Five times during the Napoleonic wars: Addington, Pitt, Grenville, Portland, Perceval, Liverpool!
    Wasn't there a c hange from Pitt to Addington as well?
    What about the American War of Independence?
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,354
    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ~YouGov:

    Johnson knowingly lied? 75% Yes 12% No

    Should Johnson resign? 57% Yes 30% No

    Should Sunak resign? 57% Yes 29% No

    Given that 57% in 2019 did not vote tory in 2019 why would this poll indicate anything who didn't vote for them still doesn't want them in power?
    64% of Conservative voters and 53% of Leave voters think Boris should remain in his role however yes
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/04/12/c5ce0/1
    Those figures highlight one of the elegant pardoxes of situations like this.

    The more that floating voters drift away, the more the remnant become fanatically loyal.

    It's one of the reasons that losing parties tend to do a bit self-indulgent after their defeat.
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    That poll is nearly a week old.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,216
    edited April 2022

    The images suggest a civilian bloodbath in Bucha, a suburb of Kyiv. The Ukrainian government is holding Russian troops responsible. But Ukrianian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is also pointing the finger at former German Chancellor Angela Merkel. He invited her to Bucha, to see for herself "what the policy of 14 years of concessions to Russia has led to."

    https://www.dw.com/en/war-in-ukraine-german-foreign-policy-under-fire/a-61436299

    @ronzheimer
    BREAKING: German President Steinmeier was planning to come to Kyiv tomorrow, but Zelensky didn't want to meet him. Background: Steinmeier's close ties to Russia in the past years and his role with Nord Stream II and the so called „Steinmeier-Formel“.


    https://twitter.com/ronzheimer/status/1513875012444475398
    Das war ein Befehl! Der Angriff Steinmeiers war ein Befehl! Wer sind Sie, dass Sie es wagen, sich meinen Befehlen zu widersetzen? So weit ist es also gekommen!
    Hmmm

    https://c.tenor.com/MPk69-OHsa8AAAAd/downfall-steiner.gif
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    Sunak could kill Johnson by resigning over this, couldn't he?
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    I wonder how Allegra is feeling tonight.
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    PensfoldPensfold Posts: 191
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just catching up, to the unbelievable sight of some PBers still dancing on the head of a pin to try to argue that Boris is innocent, OK.

    Credit to HYUFD who, unless I've missed it, has not once engaged in the ludicrous argument that Boris is innocent - merely that Boris should remain in post if it is politically expedient for the Tory Party for him to do so. If the most loyal Boris supporter can accept the Met's verdict..... well.

    Incidentally, is there a huge panic in France that in a couple of week's time they could have a new President during a European war? I've missed it if there is.

    Abraham Lincoln thought he was going to be defeated in 1864, which would have left a lame duck presidency managing the dying months of the Civil War. Not exactly ideal.

    In the end, a couple of timely victories by Union forces turned the tide in his favour.
    Sadly, Boris is no Lincoln
    Happily, we aren't actually at war
    Aren't we at war by proxy?
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379
    i see Mad Nad has put her name on the spineless spreadsheet
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    And the Tories will still claim that theirs is a patriotic party that believes in democracy. And people on here and elsewhere will agree. Bizarre!

    Don't believe everything you read on here. Some of us are in despair at the moral turpitude at the top of our party.

    A sense of moral purpose is the only thing distinguishing pragmatism from self-serving opportunism.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
    Indeed: totalitarians on the left tend to have much in common with totalitarians on the right.
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    That poll is nearly a week old.
    Fair play - it seems ElectionMaps have chosen now to publish it
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,826

    Pagan2 said:

    ~YouGov:

    Johnson knowingly lied? 75% Yes 12% No

    Should Johnson resign? 57% Yes 30% No

    Should Sunak resign? 57% Yes 29% No

    Given that 57% in 2019 did not vote tory in 2019 why would this poll indicate anything who didn't vote for them still doesn't want them in power?
    61-31 with Savanta ComRes. Apparently only 52% of 2019 Conservative voters think he should stay on.
    I don't doubt it and I certainly wasn't arguing he shouldnt go. I was merely pointing out the poll you posted had a figure corresponding pretty much to those that didnt vote tory in 2019 so not sure it really told us much.

    Personally I think as a country....note country not politicians talking to each other we need to have a conversation on how we are governed then sack all the current elected people and start again.

    See this figure 2.1
    https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/revealed-trust-in-politicians-at-lowest-level-on-record

    Only 5% or so believe politicians do the best for their country. That is untenable and speaks to a complete lack of faith in our system of governance

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    kinabalu said:

    Sunak could kill Johnson by resigning over this, couldn't he?

    Literally no
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    LeonLeon Posts: 46,747
    And an artist with a contrary opinion


    ‘DALL-E is breaking my heart.

    AI art is about to lay utter waste to traditional visual art forms. This will be so much more destructive than what the Internet did to music. It will be a technological conquest of one of the great human avenues of spiritual transformation.’

    https://twitter.com/vividvoid_/status/1512140765656338432?s=21&t=Ji706gj2K3oHVmmRKk8H1A
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,954
    HYUFD said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Carrie Johnson has "apologised unreservedly" for her lockdown breach on June 19 2020 and has paid her fine, her spokeswoman said. https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1513922287107518465?s=20&t=rIc6lVCp-NmFtHkTC8M9Yg
    She has own 'spokeswoman'?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108

    I wonder how Allegra is feeling tonight.

    A mixture of fury at Johnson's shamelessness and relief that she doesn't have to try and explain this shitstorm away?
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,354

    This will be the photo that will end Boris Johnson as the fines roll in.


    I was involved in a council by-election which took place on 22 November 1990.

    The opposition "Good Morning" leaflet just said "After all this... they still expect you to vote for you?"

    It was all that needed to be said. (And the Yellow Peril did indeed win.)
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379

    This will be the photo that will end Boris Johnson as the fines roll in.


    She reminds me of Granny from a Giles Cartoon from the Express...

    :smiley:
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,108

    Carnyx said:

    The 🇬🇧 changed PM
    👉🏻four times in the war in Afghanistan
    👉🏻in the Iraq War
    👉🏻in the Gulf War
    👉🏻in the Korean War
    👉🏻in the Second World War
    👉🏻in the First World War
    👉🏻in the Second Boer War
    👉🏻in the Second Opium War
    👉🏻in the Crimean War
    👉🏻twice in the Peninsular War


    https://twitter.com/RhonddaBryant/status/1513915021239193614

    Five times during the Napoleonic wars: Addington, Pitt, Grenville, Portland, Perceval, Liverpool!
    Wasn't there a c hange from Pitt to Addington as well?
    What about the American War of Independence?
    By the time North resigned the military campaigns were over, although it was Rockingham and then Shelburne that oversaw peace negotiations and the Peace of Paris was ratified by the Fox-North Coalition.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,079
    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    Can't even chew gum and chew gum at the same time, can they?
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    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.
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    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Very interesting. He is confident he can shut it down at this stage.

    What does Sunak do now?
    What happens if Johnson gets multiple fines for multiple events?
    As long as one of them isn't a 10Ker for organising an event, I don't think multiple fines are any more damaging than one fine.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,354

    I wonder how Allegra is feeling tonight.

    Well off out of it, I reckon.

    Imagine if she had had to defend this stuff, on the record, every single day.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    …and has the disingenuous fat fornicator tendered his resignation?
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    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Very interesting. He is confident he can shut it down at this stage.

    What does Sunak do now?
    What happens if Johnson gets multiple fines for multiple events?
    As long as one of them isn't a 10Ker for organising an event, I don't think multiple fines are any more damaging than one fine.
    Doesn't it rise as you receive further FPNs ?
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
    Indeed: totalitarians on the left tend to have much in common with totalitarians on the right.
    Well exactly, but your inference was that the Conservative party are "facists"? They aren't. Or even "far-right". In the same way even Corbyn wasn't "far-left" in comparison to many European left-wing parties.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Farooq said:

    Quick, talk about Scotland! Or tuition fees! Something! Anything!

    Trains?
    Trans trains ?
    https://newsdesk.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/news/avanti-west-coast-launches-the-uks-first-fully-wrapped-pride-train-staffed-by-all-lgbtq-crew

    Makes a change from Southern Railway Malachite Green.
    We have had Trans trains for years between Sheffield and Manchester

    Trans Penile Express
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Pagan2 said:

    TimT said:

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    You missed the Wall.
    The conservative party much as I despise them aren't fascists however. If you take the tack they because they are going large on tax and spend that they are fascists then so must the labour party be.

    Labelling those you dislike politically as fascist is facile

    (sorry was meant to be a reply to rpjs)
    Yeah, my dig was aimed at one person alone. Well, and the numbskulls who believe him and the evil c8nts who should know better and the spineless gits who don't speak up.
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    When's that then?
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2022
    Pagan2 said:

    TimT said:

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    You missed the Wall.
    The conservative party much as I despise them aren't fascists however. If you take the tack they because they are going large on tax and spend that they are fascists then so must the labour party be.

    Labelling those you dislike politically as fascist is facile

    (sorry was meant to be a reply to rpjs)
    I never said the Tories are fascists. I was just pointing out that having “tax and spend” policies is not itself a disqualifier from being far-right.
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    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    This will be the photo that will end Boris Johnson as the fines roll in.


    She reminds me of Granny from a Giles Cartoon from the Express...

    :smiley:
    The Nations Nan ❤️
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    murali_s said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    …and has the disingenuous fat fornicator tendered his resignation?
    Nope - apologises and affirms he will continue in office

    It is upto his mps now
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    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    Very interesting. He is confident he can shut it down at this stage.

    What does Sunak do now?
    What happens if Johnson gets multiple fines for multiple events?
    As long as one of them isn't a 10Ker for organising an event, I don't think multiple fines are any more damaging than one fine.
    Doesn't it rise as you receive further FPNs ?
    It does, but I'm not sure that matters. One FPN shows he either didn't understand the rules or was trying to get round them - multiple FPNs doesn't change that.
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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136

    HYUFD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ~YouGov:

    Johnson knowingly lied? 75% Yes 12% No

    Should Johnson resign? 57% Yes 30% No

    Should Sunak resign? 57% Yes 29% No

    Given that 57% in 2019 did not vote tory in 2019 why would this poll indicate anything who didn't vote for them still doesn't want them in power?
    64% of Conservative voters and 53% of Leave voters think Boris should remain in his role however yes
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/04/12/c5ce0/1
    Those figures highlight one of the elegant pardoxes of situations like this.

    The more that floating voters drift away, the more the remnant become fanatically loyal.

    It's one of the reasons that losing parties tend to do a bit self-indulgent after their defeat.
    I would observe that the Conservatives cannot afford to lose 36% of their 2019 voters.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    i see Mad Nad has put her name on the spineless spreadsheet

    Priti Patel (PM) / Nadine Dorries (CotE) dream ticket.

    At least there will be no pretending then…

    PB Tories - what do you think? Let’s get the show on the road!
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?

    Nice one
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379
    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    murali_s said:

    Boris live on Sky and confirms he has paid the fine

    …and has the disingenuous fat fornicator tendered his resignation?
    Nope - apologises and affirms he will continue in office

    It is upto his mps now
    I think he will survive (he shouldn't)

    I have said before Boris could be pictured strangling Cats and get away with it.

    LE2022 will now be a bloodbath even SKS can;t fook this up
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?

    Better not tell Boris about the second part of the quote:

    https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-but-life-is-just-a-party-and-parties-weren-t-meant-to-last-prince-45-39-97.jpg
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    Parody Boris
    @Parody_PM
    ·
    8m
    I admit that my actions are incompatible with the standards of conduct expected of my office. I have therefore decided to do the honorable thing and abolish the Ministerial Code.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379

    Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?

    in the words of PB Tories - aah never mind, he's doing his best...

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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,826

    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
    Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,776

    I wonder how Allegra is feeling tonight.

    Well off out of it, I reckon.

    Imagine if she had had to defend this stuff, on the record, every single day.
    What I'd like to know is what were her parents thinking when they (almost) named her after the crapest car ever made? Is her brother called Max(i)?
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    Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?

    in the words of PB Tories - aah never mind, he's doing his best...

    It really does not matter how any conservative views this unless you are a mp then it is their responsibility to decide how to react
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,379
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
    Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
    oh really?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,584
    GRaun feed:

    "The eagle-eyed among you will have noticed the prime minister has revised the time he says spent at his own birthday party down from 10 minutes to just nine minutes during this interview."
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,776

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
    Indeed: totalitarians on the left tend to have much in common with totalitarians on the right.
    Well exactly, but your inference was that the Conservative party are "facists"? They aren't. Or even "far-right". In the same way even Corbyn wasn't "far-left" in comparison to many European left-wing parties.
    I think far left is a reasonable description of Corbyn. Being slightly more moderate than Karl Marx and Engels doesn't exactly let him off the hook.
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,826

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
    Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
    oh really?
    Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.

    Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
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    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Need some mind bleach after seeing this one:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQJ4H_uX0AEasKu?format=jpg&name=medium
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Surprised we've not seen more of these pieces.

    Ukraine’s 'iron general' is a hero, but he's no star

    Meet Valeriy Zaluzhnyy, the commander in chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, who's quietly leading the fight against Russia's invaders.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/08/ukraines-iron-general-zaluzhnyy-00023901?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136
    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    Turns out that particular truism isn't true.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/householddisposableincomeandinequality/financialyear2020
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,489

    Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?

    Three Dog Night - Momma Told Me Not to Come
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTCyjYjsVc8
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    The far right: Le Pen deserves to win because Macron is too focused on the Ukraine war.
    Also the far right: Boris shouldn't be replaced because he is too focused on the Ukraine war.

    You are mistaking the far right with the tory party, the current iteration couldn't be described as anything other than centre left giving their tax and spend policies
    Read your history: fascists are always big on tax and spend. Autobahns, the E.U.R., draining the Pontine marshes etc.
    Like Stalin's Five Year Plans then?
    Indeed: totalitarians on the left tend to have much in common with totalitarians on the right.
    Well exactly, but your inference was that the Conservative party are "facists"? They aren't. Or even "far-right". In the same way even Corbyn wasn't "far-left" in comparison to many European left-wing parties.
    I think far left is a reasonable description of Corbyn. Being slightly more moderate than Karl Marx and Engels doesn't exactly let him off the hook.
    You are Mr Thicky if you think Corbyns Policies are far left
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
    Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement.
    So am I, but I don't see that as a general position for the nation.
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,776
    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    I have been a long critic of The Clown and really want him gone, but your post does sum up my fears about Labour.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,920
    Leon said:

    The unbelievable power of dall-e 2



    ‘Can’t get enough of DALL-E examples. Mind blown. 🤯’

    https://twitter.com/jelleprins/status/1513767494850592769?s=21&t=Ji706gj2K3oHVmmRKk8H1A

    Here is an excellent article on it: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/r99tazGiLgzqFX7ka/playing-with-dall-e-2
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,435
    Rather depressed tonight. I have never held the UK government as some mythical entity where decency always holds and ministers can be trusted to do the right thing - I think people do look back with rose tinted spectacles most of the time. But it does feel like a Rubicon has been crossed in terms of standards in public life and the Tory Party deserves all that is coming to them at the next election. I will be voting Labour for the first time in my life - I won’t ever be anything but a very critical elector for Starmer but at least he has a fundamental sense of what is right and wrong about him and we can’t be seen to support this sort of behaviour from the Tories.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I would like to thank the Tories for delivering a Labour Government.

    A labour governement getting into power is about the only thing that would make me hold my nose and vote tory, same with many others. The one thing you can guarantee with a labour government if you are working and private sector is you will be poorer at the end of it than you were at the beginning.
    oh?, do you think we will be richer when this mob are kicked out? They've got a long way to catch up with June 2019, or even June 2010!
    Well I am richer now than in the beginning of this governement. Can't say that has ever happened under labour. So are lots of people I know.
    oh really?
    Here is a clue....no one in the general populace gives a damn about gdp, they care about how many pounds are in their pocket....gdp per capita and median gdp per capita would be a far better measure.

    Since 2000 our nations gdp has trended upwards but precious little of that ended up in the pockets of the bottom 70% of the population. Going by GDP we became richer as a nation....gdp per capita not so much
    Could it be that you are out of touch?
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,489

    I wonder how Allegra is feeling tonight.

    Well off out of it, I reckon.

    Imagine if she had had to defend this stuff, on the record, every single day.
    What I'd like to know is what were her parents thinking when they (almost) named her after the crapest car ever made? Is her brother called Max(i)?
    Ever hear of Edsel Ford? Though in his case other way around!
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    Snap YouGov poll on Partygate fines:

    - 57% say Johnson should quit
    - 57% say Sunak should quit
    - 75% said Johnson "knowingly lied about breaching Covid-19 rules"
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,624

    Do we really want someone as Prime Minister who is too dumb to realise he is at a party?

    Having a dumb person as PM, so long as an eye was kept on them, could theoretically work. But let's not forget he is also the kind of person who seeks to prevent those who have done wrong from being punished, only stepping back when forced to, a la Paterson.

    So he's not even well meaning, he's shown willing to use his power for nefarious purposes.

    Thank goodness he's had at least a few good calls, as the above is worrying about what he'd do if he thinks he can get away things - and he's about to have a clear demonstration that he can get away with a lot.
This discussion has been closed.