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No more polls after tomorrow in the French election – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,465
    edited April 2022
    Police have raided the headquarters of Unite, one of the UK's largest and most powerful trade unions.

    Sky News understands 15 to 20 officers attended the search yesterday at the union's central London headquarters and left the building with boxes of files, paper and a computer.

    https://news.sky.com/story/police-raid-uks-largest-trade-union-unites-headquarters-12584484
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    nico679 said:

    From the Atlas poll which showed a slim lead for Le Pen in the second round .

    They asked should France leave the EU .

    No 71.7%

    Yes 17.3%

    Although she’s now ditched her Frexit as it cost her last time her new policy is still very antagonistic towards the EU.

    That's a winning strategy in several countries - antagonistic, so long as people don't think that bleeds into any actual desire to leave.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    Leon said:

    One way Le pen could win is if enough people think Oh she surely won’t win, so I’m safe in voting for her just to annoy Macron

    Thus, she wins. A bit like Brexit
    That would be pretty funny in fairness.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,253
    Selebian said:

    A German guy I know at work had some R code (I assume, big R guy) running on the Brexit polls and was predicting Brexit before the event. I didn't bet on it. Maybe I should ask him if he's done anything for the French presidential election...

    Edit: quoting from the prediction, sent on the day of the referendum:
    The uncertainty of this estimate was explored by a simulation study estimating this model on N = 10,000 draws from the sampling space of the differences between the two vote shares and making a prediction for the 23rd of June 2016. The point estimate of this procedure was -1.655 (i.e. a lead for the leave camp) with a 95% confidence interval of [-1.643, -1.435]. The share of predictions with a lead for the remain camp was 0.0% (not a single prediction).

    Different estimation method, so different guy.

    Worth noting the prediction 95% CI did not include the actual result (not even close). So fail :wink: Or the 1 in 20 times that happens, of course...
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,782
    kle4 said:

    That would be pretty funny in fairness.
    You've got a sick sense of humour.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    kle4 said:

    That's a winning strategy in several countries - antagonistic, so long as people don't think that bleeds into any actual desire to leave.
    It’s up to Macron to ensure that he puts enough doubt into voters minds that she still wants a Frexit . Personally I think she’s maxed out her polling and the annoyance with Macron is inflating her polling and the only way is down once people move from the abstract to actually putting her in the Elysee .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744
    nico679 said:

    From the Atlas poll which showed a slim lead for Le Pen in the second round .

    They asked should France leave the EU .

    No 71.7%

    Yes 17.3%

    Although she’s now ditched her Frexit as it cost her last time her new policy is still very antagonistic towards the EU.

    De Gaulle was very antagonistic to the “EU”. Empty chaired it at one point.

    Again: my supposition is that a female De Gaulle is what Le Pen would aim to be, with an added dash of ethnocentrism and culture war (rather than the actual Algerian war)
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited April 2022
    kle4 said:

    That would be pretty funny in fairness.
    It has to be said the pro-Putin effect on the top table of European politics might be quite a lot less funny, though. With added French race riots to serve.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256
    edited April 2022

    Police have raided the headquarters of Unite, one of the UK's largest and most powerful trade unions.

    Sky News understands 15 to 20 officers attended the search yesterday at the union's central London headquarters and left the building with boxes of files, paper and a computer.

    https://news.sky.com/story/police-raid-uks-largest-trade-union-unites-headquarters-12584484

    Oh joy!

    Starmer really is a revenge is the dish best served cold kind of a guy isn't he?

    Len shouldn't have messed with a man who saves donkeys!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099
    Leon said:

    One way Le pen could win is if enough people think Oh she surely won’t win, so I’m safe in voting for her just to annoy Macron

    Thus, she wins. A bit like Brexit
    And deep in France....JeanT has a few pastis, wanders down the polling station and decides on impulse to vote for Le Pen, comes home and is horrified when she wins, telling everyone il a ruiné sa patrie...then spends the next four years as her 'fanatique numéro un'.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-60996062

    Asked what difference killing Sir David would make, he said: "For one, he can't vote again.
    "If he had previous for doing votes like that he won't do it in the future, and perhaps send a message to his colleagues."
    He added: "So hopefully, he won't be able to harm Muslims in that regard."


    So not because Angela Rayner said that Tories were scum.

    I really don't think that is what most people were suggesting when the murder made them reflect on the separate issue of civility and animosity in politics. I found some of the dismissal of that issue at the time to severely miss the point, even being deliberately obtuse from some quarters, mocking the idea people might think it an apposite time to raise it.

    A very bad thing happened. If that made people reflect on their behaviour and the hostility of our political discourse, even though the very bad thing was not prompted in this case by it, I don't see the problem. It's never the wrong time to be concerned about rising tribalism and hostility.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    MattW said:

    For that I might recommend Hedgehog Holly.

    Known as Ilex Ferox. The distinctive being it also has spines on the faces of the leaves.

    Or Blackthorn.
    Perhaps, Monkey puzzle. It looks a painful insertion.

    Of course, it is Chilean, and not native.
    ,
    But, Drakeford, as befits a good Socialist, is very pro-Chile.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,759
    IshmaelZ said:

    Well you can, if you settle for a 10% discount on the still utterly enormous wealth, and some self-discipline about how you spend it. 3 UK homes and 1 Californian bad, 2 UK homes (never mind how flash) and just discreetly renting abroad, fine. That's what is so stupid about it.
    As always the presentation diverges from a fair analysis

    - Family home (Kensington I think)
    - Constituency home (like every MP)
    - Work home at No11 (which press says he barely uses)
    - Holiday home in California

    So if it wasn’t for his job he would effectively have a family home and a holiday home. For someone in his wealth bracket that is very very modest. I’m sure they are very nice and all that, but it’s not particularly egregious
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    54 countries abstained and 24 voted to keep Russia on the human rights council . The 78 are scum and should be ashamed .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    edited April 2022

    You've got a sick sense of humour.
    As whisperingoracle notes the actual outcome of it would not be funny at all. Le Pen is not her dad, but she is still far worse than Macron. But people arrogantly not voting - or even voting opposite to what they actually want - because they think the outcome is certain to go their way and being wrong about that is darkly comic.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256
    IanB2 said:

    And deep in France....JeanT has a few pastis, wanders down the polling station and decides on impulse to vote for Le Pen, comes home and is horrified when she wins, telling everyone il a ruiné sa patrie...then spends the next four years as her 'fanatique numéro un'.....
    Does JeanT have multiple identities on " le jeux d'argent politique"?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,465
    edited April 2022
    nico679 said:

    54 countries abstained and 24 voted to keep Russia on the human rights council . The 78 are scum and should be ashamed .

    Picture of who the scumbags are. China voted against.

    Final vote of the United Nations General Assembly resolution to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council. Russia is out.
    https://twitter.com/MarkLGoldberg/status/1512095465579458574?s=20&t=fO9xOZqsuPlJMNmKIIOJOQ

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    edited April 2022
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Cookie said:

    Note that is not Russia, but Donbass, doing that. Donetsk and Luhansk have far fewer cares than Russia for their population or their conscripts. There is almost no private sector to speak of and pretty much everyone has to work for the government or join the army.
    Yes, and its worth noting that the sell declared state 'Donetsk People's Republic' which is fighting alongside the Russians. has released its own casualty fingers. and it seems that the memo about publicly under-reporting you losses.

    At the start of the conflict they clamed to have 20,000 solders, and on there own website clam to have suffered 767 dead and 3,559 Wounded up to 31 March. that adds up to 4,326 and if accurate would be 22% of there starting strength. That does not include the last 7 day.

    Is this credible? well it seems unlikely that they would admit a higher casuty number than real number, and the conscription of 60 year olds would suggest there armed forces are very stretched.

    links, its referd to on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

    And Wikipedia references the DPRs website https://ombudsman-dnr.ru/obzor-soczialno-gumanitarnoj-situaczii-slozhivshejsya-na-territorii-doneczkoj-narodnoj-respubliki-vsledstvie-voennyh-dejstvij-v-period-s-26-marta-po-01-aprelya-2022-g/

    I'm struggling to translate the DPR website, so I'm happy for somebody with more skill than me to translate and correct me if appropriate.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    kle4 said:

    That would be pretty funny in fairness.
    Ah yes, "funny". That one.

    Only on PB.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    Some French diplomats have been happy to float ideas for a deal even if it "rewards the aggression":

    Neutralization of Ukraine under international guarantees, referendum in the Donbas, loss of Crimea may be the elements of a peace agreement between Ukraine and Russia. It rewards the agression, would say some, but I don’t see any other way to put a quick end to the slaughter.

    https://twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1506637958295785472
    Anything for a 'quick' end, as though a swift end is always the best option. Ukrainians may or may not feel that extended sacrifice would be a better option than the swiftest option (as Russian trolls have stated, the quickest end of all is surrender).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    edited April 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting read.
    As a Russian-speaking person of color who was born and raised in Ukraine, I believe that I am in a position to speak on the issue of nationalism and neo-Nazism in Ukraine. A long thread ...
    https://twitter.com/mariamposts/status/1511995713135443969

    TL;DR: Western media and Russian propaganda wildly inflate the problem of the Ukrainian far-right. The coverage fails to put the Ukrainian far-right in the larger context. Once done, it's evident that it is a tiny problem compared to Russian and even European right-wing movements

    https://twitter.com/mariamposts/status/1511996203382317058?cxt=HHwWhIC9xaei2PspAAAA
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited April 2022

    And quite a bit like Corbyn in 2017... Give the guaranteed winner a kicking because it is a free hit...oh. Ah. Eek.

    Of course, France has the remedy of the second round to correct that.
    Le Pen's overall chances might be better if she finishes a distant second in round 1, than if she wins outright.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    edited April 2022

    Ah yes, "funny". That one.

    Only on PB.
    I'm surprised people have reacted so sensitively to this remark, it was hardly an endorsement of that outcome. People acting stupidly is often funny in theory, if not in reality. If people vote contrary to what they actually want that's terrible, in practice, but definitely amusing in theory, because it is so damn stupid. People should never vote a certain way to annoy or punish someone they don't like, if they cannot stomach the alternative.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256

    As always the presentation diverges from a fair analysis

    - Family home (Kensington I think)
    - Constituency home (like every MP)
    - Work home at No11 (which press says he barely uses)
    - Holiday home in California

    So if it wasn’t for his job he would effectively have a family home and a holiday home. For someone in his wealth bracket that is very very modest. I’m sure they are very nice and all that, but it’s not particularly egregious
    Dorneywood is very nice too.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,441
    nico679 said:

    The dynamics of the French elections change dramatically next week when the media will be concentrating on just two candidates .

    The debates are going to be much more important this time and where I expect Le Pens momentum will come to an end .

    She has a lot of baggage which she’s managed to steer clear of in the run upto the 1st round but Macron whatever you think of him is by far the better debater and will make sure the French are reminded of her past .

    The French don't like to be thought of as fascists which is why they will do what they always do and make sure Le Pen is beaten handsomely whoever the opponent.

    To Macron by at least 10 points would be my guess.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Picture of who the scumbags are. China voted against.

    Final vote of the United Nations General Assembly resolution to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council. Russia is out.
    https://twitter.com/MarkLGoldberg/status/1512095465579458574?s=20&t=fO9xOZqsuPlJMNmKIIOJOQ

    There are also 17 nations who did not tern up to vote at all.

    But basically the 24 states who voted to keep Russia on the human Rights council, are basically the nations who have such bad human Rights abuses themselves that they what to keep Russia there to help cover up there own sins.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744
    Farooq said:

    Oh god I wish I hadn't started this. He's got a hot mess of dependencies in there. One of them is called "kirkegaard", which seems to be his own dump of random code bits. And there's a reference to another packages called "psychometric" which I don't even know what that is. It's not on CRAN and it's not in his personal Github, so fuck knows what that's about. That code is officially NOT in a working order.
    Don’t worry. I found it. By using “useless” Twitter. Where no one goes

    “#Brexit predictive model prediction the day before: In favor of leave by about 0.6%point. emilkirkegaard.dk/understanding_…”


    https://twitter.com/kirkegaardemil/status/745685098180259840?s=21&t=B0pFpVHNXqpKgmCsDJpkJQ
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    Farooq said:

    Oh god I wish I hadn't started this. He's got a hot mess of dependencies in there. One of them is called "kirkegaard", which seems to be his own dump of random code bits. And there's a reference to another packages called "psychometric" which I don't even know what that is. It's not on CRAN and it's not in his personal Github, so fuck knows what that's about. That code is officially NOT in a working order.
    So basically, bullshit.
    But @Leon’s hope is palpable.

    The PB Tory’s onanistic fantasy of a Le Pen win seems to come around more and more frequently. Perhaps I am just getting old.

    Does @HYUFD still maintain Le Pen actually won the last election, pending final returns from Kerguelen?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099

    Does JeanT have multiple identities on " le jeux d'argent politique"?
    Beaucoup....'Byronique', 'MadameG', 'Lyon'....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    edited April 2022
    BigRich said:

    There are also 17 nations who did not tern up to vote at all.

    But basically the 24 states who voted to keep Russia on the human Rights council, are basically the nations who have such bad human Rights abuses themselves that they what to keep Russia there to help cover up there own sins.
    Ethiopia on the list I see. Presumably as while the PM has had plenty of accolades, the recent civil war has led to the government being put on a naughty list.

    At the risk of triggering people, it'd be funnier if some of the really bad nations voted against Russia on this instance, out of sheer hypocrisy.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,105

    Picture of who the scumbags are. China voted against.

    Final vote of the United Nations General Assembly resolution to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council. Russia is out.
    https://twitter.com/MarkLGoldberg/status/1512095465579458574?s=20&t=fO9xOZqsuPlJMNmKIIOJOQ

    Fascinating group of countries Russia now has on its side. Says it all really..
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256
    edited April 2022
    Roger said:

    The French don't like to be thought of as fascists which is why they will do what they always do and make sure Le Pen is beaten handsomely whoever the opponent.

    To Macron by at least 10 points would be my guess.
    Do you return to Blighty if La Belle France elects a Na... I mean Mme LePen?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744
    So he successfully predicted a narrow Brexit victory against the consensus. Which means we must give his predix about the French election some credence

    Le Pen has a 93% chance of winning….
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546

    So basically, bullshit.
    But @Leon’s hope is palpable.

    The PB Tory’s onanistic fantasy of a Le Pen win seems to come around more and more frequently. Perhaps I am just getting old.

    Does @HYUFD still maintain Le Pen actually won the last election, pending final returns from Kerguelen?
    Does anyone actually want her to win? Other than hope of a more excisting contest, pretty sure most people on both sides think Macron is far and away the best choice the French have.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    edited April 2022
    Roger said:

    The French don't like to be thought of as fascists which is why they will do what they always do and make sure Le Pen is beaten handsomely whoever the opponent.

    To Macron by at least 10 points would be my guess.
    It was 66/34 last time. My initial position was Le Pen would be doing well to get into the low 40s, and I've not really changed that, simply as the surge has seemed out of nowhere.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744

    So basically, bullshit.
    But @Leon’s hope is palpable.

    The PB Tory’s onanistic fantasy of a Le Pen win seems to come around more and more frequently. Perhaps I am just getting old.

    Does @HYUFD still maintain Le Pen actually won the last election, pending final returns from Kerguelen?
    You’re all so easy to troll
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited April 2022
    kle4 said:

    Does anyone actually want her to win? Other than hope of a more excisting contest, pretty sure most people on both sides think Macron is far and away the best choice the French have.
    A Le Pen win is one of those secret desires held by the PB Tory / Brexit tribe.

    See Telegraph/Spectator articles and various PB Tory comments passim.

    It’s a bit like the Japanese fetish for vending machines that sell schoolgirls’ knickers. Inexplicable to outsiders.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,352

    So basically, bullshit.
    But @Leon’s hope is palpable.

    The PB Tory’s onanistic fantasy of a Le Pen win seems to come around more and more frequently. Perhaps I am just getting old.

    Does @HYUFD still maintain Le Pen actually won the last election, pending final returns from Kerguelen?
    I don’t think clear documentation immediately renders it bullshit. Just difficult for others to use.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    kle4 said:

    I really don't think that is what most people were suggesting when the murder made them reflect on the separate issue of civility and animosity in politics. I found some of the dismissal of that issue at the time to severely miss the point, even being deliberately obtuse from some quarters, mocking the idea people might think it an apposite time to raise it.

    A very bad thing happened. If that made people reflect on their behaviour and the hostility of our political discourse, even though the very bad thing was not prompted in this case by it, I don't see the problem. It's never the wrong time to be concerned about rising tribalism and hostility.
    That is correct @kle4 but what I think people were pointing out at the time was that the whole “the hostility of our political discourse” debate was being driven by a desire to obscure what the attack actually was namely (yet again) another terrorist attack perpetrated by a radicalised Islamist.

    It was the same modus operandi used when the three gay men were killed in Reading - talk about mental health, don’t mention about the possibility of radicalism and then slowly let the truth seep out when the outrage has died down. I doubt if the killer in either case had been a white neo-nazi we would have been having a wider debate about civility or the need to support mental health.

    There is nothing wrong trying to dampen down hostility in political discourse but there is in spinning a disingenuous discourse to avoid talking another other topics.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    nico679 said:

    54 countries abstained and 24 voted to keep Russia on the human rights council . The 78 are scum and should be ashamed .

    Let's name them:

    Algeria*, Angola, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus*, Belize, Bhutan, Bolivia*, Botswana,
    Brazil, Brunei, Burundi*, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Cameroon, Central African Rep*, China*, Congo*, Cuba*,
    North Korea*, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea*, Eswatini, Ethiopia*, Gabon*, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau,
    Guyana, India, Indonesia, Iran*, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan*, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan*,
    Laos*, Lesotho, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali*, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia,
    Nepal, Nicaragua*, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia*, Saint Kitts, Saint Vincent,
    Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Singapore, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria*, Tajikistan*,
    Thailand, Togo, Trinidad, Tunisia, Uganda, UAE, Tanzania, Uzbekistan*, Vanuatu, Vietnam*,
    Yemen, Zimbabwe*.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    The first episode of Slow Horses was really v impressive.

    Makes the Ipcress File look like the utter (but mildly diverting) tosh that it is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    MrEd said:

    That is correct kle4 but what I think people were pointing out at the time was that the whole “the hostility of our political discourse” debate was being driven by a desire to obscure what the attack actually was namely (yet again) another terrorist attack perpetrated by a radicalised Islamist.

    It was the same modus operandi used when the three gay men were killed in Reading - talk about mental health, don’t mention about the possibility of radicalism and then slowly let the truth seep out when the outrage has died down. I doubt if the killer in either case had been a white neo-nazi we would have been having a wider debate about civility or the need to support mental health.

    There is nothing wrong trying to dampen down hostility in political discourse but there is in spinning a disingenuous discourse to avoid talking another other topics.
    I think that can and does happen (careful vaguness in stories can hide a lot, see also when someone says something offensive but we are not told what, so cannot tell how offensive it was), but I personally didn't get that impression at the time in this case, as some of the reaction against the discourse comments was a smug 'that has nothing to do with this, people are just jumping on it for their own reasons' sort of thing, rather than 'You are just trying to divert from the motive of the attacker'.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,537

    A Le Pen win is one of those secret desires held by the PB Tory / Brexit tribe.
    Not by me it isn't.

    I just wish France didn't keep ending up with a choice of two deeply flawed characters.

    It seems in France, shit perennially floats to the political top.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,637

    Picture of who the scumbags are. China voted against.

    Final vote of the United Nations General Assembly resolution to kick Russia out of the UN Human Rights Council. Russia is out.
    https://twitter.com/MarkLGoldberg/status/1512095465579458574?s=20&t=fO9xOZqsuPlJMNmKIIOJOQ

    India abstained AGAIN :frowning:
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254

    Not by me it isn't.

    I just wish France didn't keep ending up with a choice of two deeply flawed characters.

    It seems in France, shit perennially floats to the political top.
    Johnson v Corbyn?
    Trump v Biden?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    Andy_JS said:

    Let's name them:

    Algeria*, Angola, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus*, Belize, Bhutan, Bolivia*, Botswana,
    Brazil, Brunei, Burundi*, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Cameroon, Central African Rep*, China*, Congo*, Cuba*,
    North Korea*, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea*, Eswatini, Ethiopia*, Gabon*, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau,
    Guyana, India, Indonesia, Iran*, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan*, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan*,
    Laos*, Lesotho, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali*, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia,
    Nepal, Nicaragua*, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia*, Saint Kitts, Saint Vincent,
    Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Singapore, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria*, Tajikistan*,
    Thailand, Togo, Trinidad, Tunisia, Uganda, UAE, Tanzania, Uzbekistan*, Vanuatu, Vietnam*,
    Yemen, Zimbabwe*.
    Belize? Best get the Governor General on the phone!

    Some not awful places on the abstentions. But some reports are that a lot of the world are leaning Russia in this whole conflict, the outrage is not a global majority.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,617

    The first episode of Slow Horses was really v impressive.

    Makes the Ipcress File look like the utter (but mildly diverting) tosh that it is.

    But can you break your breakfast egg with one hand?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,816
    Roger said:

    The French don't like to be thought of as fascists which is why they will do what they always do and make sure Le Pen is beaten handsomely whoever the opponent.
    I wonder how that tendency would express itself if Le Pen did win.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    A Le Pen win is one of those secret desires held by the PB Tory / Brexit tribe.

    See Telegraph/Spectator articles and various PB Tory comments passim.

    It’s a bit like the Japanese fetish for vending machines that sell schoolgirls’ knickers. Inexplicable to outsiders.
    Oh come on, it's all fairly straightforward :
    - Natural human tendency to want disasters to happen for the spectacle value
    - We dislike the French and, while we would normally baulk at wishing leaders like Le Pen on them, this is mitigated by the fact that she'll only get in if a majority votes for her
    - We want to know what would happen, mostly so we can be reassured it's not a good idea, and partially just in case it turns out to be not all that bad, we can relax slightly about it ever happening here
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744
    Farooq said:

    I got it working. It's really quite unimpressive. It's pretty much what I said. A Shiny app with a graph and a data table, and a load of data points. It shows the line juuust peaking over into Leave territory but it's no more than a smoothed graph of the polls.
    I would upload a screenshot but I think there's some "trick" to doing that which I don't know, if someone can advise?
    It’s there in his tweets in June 2016

    As I said before it just seems to be extrapolation. Not Einstein. Nonetheless it is worth noting that he got it right with this simple method

    To really impress he’d have to do this for half a dozen votes or elections and get it right more often than not

    He may have just got lucky once
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Andy_JS said:

    Let's name them:

    Algeria*, Angola, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belarus*, Belize, Bhutan, Bolivia*, Botswana,
    Brazil, Brunei, Burundi*, Cabo Verde, Cambodia, Cameroon, Central African Rep*, China*, Congo*, Cuba*,
    North Korea*, Egypt, El Salvador, Eritrea*, Eswatini, Ethiopia*, Gabon*, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau,
    Guyana, India, Indonesia, Iran*, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan*, Kenya, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan*,
    Laos*, Lesotho, Madagascar, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali*, Mexico, Mongolia, Mozambique, Namibia,
    Nepal, Nicaragua*, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia*, Saint Kitts, Saint Vincent,
    Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Singapore, South Africa, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria*, Tajikistan*,
    Thailand, Togo, Trinidad, Tunisia, Uganda, UAE, Tanzania, Uzbekistan*, Vanuatu, Vietnam*,
    Yemen, Zimbabwe*.
    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Farooq said:

    I got it working. It's really quite unimpressive. It's pretty much what I said. A Shiny app with a graph and a data table, and a load of data points. It shows the line juuust peaking over into Leave territory but it's no more than a smoothed graph of the polls.
    I would upload a screenshot but I think there's some "trick" to doing that which I don't know, if someone can advise?
    I did a spreadsheet for the EU referendum results night, but it didn't predict what would happen overall, it just attempted to say how each area would vote if the result was 50/50 overall.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,340
    IanB2 said:

    Beaucoup....'Byronique', 'MadameG', 'Lyon'....
    What's "hand-knapped flint sex toy" in French? Mine is pretty rusty. (My French, you filthy so-and-so's.)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    Not by me it isn't.

    I just wish France didn't keep ending up with a choice of two deeply flawed characters.

    It seems in France, shit perennially floats to the political top.
    And Britain is different how?

    A Macron/Le Pen choice is no different and maybe even better than the Johnson/Corbyn one was.

    Macron is a pain but less inept and malign than Johnson. Le Pen is a crypto-fascist but probably more “reality-based” than Corbyn.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,546
    Farooq said:

    The leaders of the two largest parties in the most recent UK election were Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn...
    Yes, but we can at least pretend we were voting for Joe/Jane Bloggs MP, who is a decent sort even if their leader isn't.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    TimT said:

    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
    What is St Kitts doing on there?
    Time for the Queen to pull a Gough Whitlam.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,915

    Not by me it isn't.

    I just wish France didn't keep ending up with a choice of two deeply flawed characters.

    It seems in France, shit perennially floats to the political top.
    The laws of physics are the same everywhere. Floaters gonna float.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,771
    TimT said:

    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
    Or abstained?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    kle4 said:

    Belize? Best get the Governor General on the phone!

    Some not awful places on the abstentions. But some reports are that a lot of the world are leaning Russia in this whole conflict, the outrage is not a global majority.
    Yes. Why are the likes of Barbados and St Kitts abstaining on this?
  • kle4 said:

    Belize? Best get the Governor General on the phone!

    Some not awful places on the abstentions. But some reports are that a lot of the world are leaning Russia in this whole conflict, the outrage is not a global majority.
    The Russian social media operation have done a superb job of weaponising discontent over Iraq and Afghanistan all over the world.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    MattW said:

    But can you break your breakfast egg with one hand?
    Who is that berk they cast as the Ipcress lead? I posted on here a week or so ago that he has the charisma of a third-rate Herman von Rompuy impersonator.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254

    A Le Pen win is one of those secret desires held by the PB Tory / Brexit tribe.

    See Telegraph/Spectator articles and various PB Tory comments passim.

    It’s a bit like the Japanese fetish for vending machines that sell schoolgirls’ knickers. Inexplicable to outsiders.
    Is it inexplicable? How different is Le Pen's platform from that of someone like Priti Patel?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    What is St Kitts doing on there?
    Time for the Queen to pull a Gough Whitlam.
    Looks like the Caribbean, Africa, the Middle East, the 'Stans, and South Asia went no or abstain big time.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,915
    Andy_JS said:

    Yes. Why are the likes of Barbados and St Kitts abstaining on this?
    China?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,674
    TimT said:

    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
    Basically, as Leon said the other day, African countries saying "We see Europeans are bombing each other, nothing to do with us". It's payback for the collective shrug with which we greeted the massacres in DRC, Ethiopia and elsewhere.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,637
    mwadams said:

    Or abstained?
    NO that list includes abstainees (non-asterisked).
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited April 2022

    Is it inexplicable? How different is Le Pen's platform from that of someone like Priti Patel?

    Is it inexplicable? How different is Le Pen's platform from that of someone like Priti Patel?
    A bit more overt in her extremity, I think ( Priti Patel is certainly a threat to democracy, though ) . "National preference" for housing and services, in Putin's pocket for foreign policy.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    edited April 2022
    mwadams said:

    Or abstained?
    Nope. That was the list of no votes (*) and abstentions ( )
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744
    Andy_JS said:

    Yes. Why are the likes of Barbados and St Kitts abstaining on this?
    China
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    The Russian social media operation have done a superb job of weaponising discontent over Iraq and Afghanistan all over the world.
    Russia?
    Most of them are Chinese client states.

    That certainly explains the Caribbean nonsense (save Cuba).
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Basically, as Leon said the other day, African countries saying "We see Europeans are bombing each other, nothing to do with us". It's payback for the collective shrug with which we greeted the massacres in DRC, Ethiopia and elsewhere.
    Agreed. A lot of schadenfreude and stick it to the man thinking going on.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    Is it inexplicable? How different is Le Pen's platform from that of someone like Priti Patel?
    Dunno.
    Did Patel grow up as the heir apparent to a literal fascist?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,617

    Who is that berk they cast as the Ipcress lead? I posted on here a week or so ago that he has the charisma of a third-rate Herman von Rompuy impersonator.
    A chap called Joe Cole, not to be confused with the soccer star with the same name.

    The series is beautifully shot but, by god it’s dull. My wife has not stayed awake through a single episode.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,816

    And Britain is different how?

    A Macron/Le Pen choice is no different and maybe even better than the Johnson/Corbyn one was.

    Macron is a pain but less inept and malign than Johnson. Le Pen is a crypto-fascist but probably more “reality-based” than Corbyn.
    Macron has a bit of technocratic polish, but is he really less inept than Johnson? He has a litany of failures on his record, particularly on foreign policy. His handling of covid wasn't any more impressive and arguably nothing was more malign than deliberately trashing the AstraZeneca vaccine.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254

    A bit more overt and extreme, I think ( Priti Patel is certainly a threat to democracy, though). "National preference" for housing and services, in Putin's pocket for foreign policy.
    If Patel had her own party, I could see such a policy. Even Brown had British jobs for British workers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744
    TimT said:

    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
    It’s quite a handy list: in terms of all the countries in the world you would never want to live, with the exception of Thailand, Singapore and just maybe Bhutan?

    Lots of nice holiday destinations tho
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,465
    Inside China's Zero Covid Camp
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sb1X_lSysY
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Not by me it isn't.

    I just wish France didn't keep ending up with a choice of two deeply flawed characters.

    It seems in France, shit perennially floats to the political top.
    "A choice of two deeply flawed characters" seems to have become the default status for Western democracies in general.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,637

    Who is that berk they cast as the Ipcress lead? I posted on here a week or so ago that he has the charisma of a third-rate Herman von Rompuy Nigel Farage impersonator.
    Corrected it for you, GW :lol:
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited April 2022

    Russia?
    Most of them are Chinese client states.

    That certainly explains the Caribbean nonsense (save Cuba).
    Yes, but the Russians have reactivated a Cold War Third World sense of solidarity by activating thousands of trolls and bots to spread questions along the lines "and why didn't it matter in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq" throughout the social media space.

    Because of the double-standard sense of great power machinations in their regions being largely ignored and unknown in the West throughout the Cold War, many places such as latin america and the carribean ( and Africa ) are the understandably receptive to this kind of direct message, and fairly straightforward redirecting propaganda.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254

    Dunno.
    Did Patel grow up as the heir apparent to a literal fascist?
    I think those who judge her by her father are misreading the situation, hence finding things inexplicable, when they probably are quite explicable.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Taz said:

    A chap called Joe Cole, not to be confused with the soccer star with the same name.

    The series is beautifully shot but, by god it’s dull. My wife has not stayed awake through a single episode.
    Looks like he is doing a Michael Caine impersonation rather than making the role his own.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    TimT said:

    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
    Armenia and Azerbaijan, both did not attend the vote, probably a way of them trying to 'play both sides' without having to formally Abstain.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,467

    If Patel had her own party, I could see such a policy. Even Brown had British jobs for British workers.
    Its daft how much insulting daftness heads her way.

    I will happily defend her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,465
    An employee from the Unite union is being investigated by police as part of an inquiry into allegations of bribery, fraud and money laundering.

    The trade union confirmed that officers searched an unnamed employee's office at its Holborn headquarters under warrant on Wednesday.

    It is understood South Wales Police were involved in the operation.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,816
    TimT said:

    Interestingly, then, all the Transcaucus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan) voted to boot Russia.
    As did Serbia.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,617
    TimT said:

    Looks like he is doing a Michael Caine impersonation rather than making the role his own.
    Not a lot of people know that.

    (Apologies. Couldn’t resist.)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203
    edited April 2022
    Taz said:

    A chap called Joe Cole, not to be confused with the soccer star with the same name.

    The series is beautifully shot but, by god it’s dull. My wife has not stayed awake through a single episode.
    I can’t be arsed finishing it.
    I’d like to think he dies horribly in the last episode but somehow I doubt it.

    I’d like to plug “A French Village” on here again, indeed I think I discovered it after a tip-off from another poster. Set on the border of German occupied and Vichy France.

    It’s soapy and lowish budget, but bloody brilliant in a morally complex, nail-biting way. And it has Nazis. Lots of them.

    Inexcusably it’s not available in the UK, by legal means anyway.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,637
    Leon said:

    It’s quite a handy list: in terms of all the countries in the world you would never want to live, with the exception of Thailand, Singapore and just maybe Bhutan?

    Lots of nice holiday destinations tho
    Freedom House has a map of Free countries, partly Free and Not Free:

    https://freedomhouse.org/explore-the-map?type=fiw&year=2022
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254
    Tiger is back!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    edited April 2022
    edit
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    Macron has a bit of technocratic polish, but is he really less inept than Johnson? He has a litany of failures on his record, particularly on foreign policy. His handling of covid wasn't any more impressive and arguably nothing was more malign than deliberately trashing the AstraZeneca vaccine.
    He’s a pain.

    But his reforms have improved the French economy, and he is promising more. To call him a failure is absurd.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,203

    I think those who judge her by her father are misreading the situation, hence finding things inexplicable, when they probably are quite explicable.
    I should have added willing heir apparent, for the first 50 years of her life, anyway.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    The semi-lame Goat not looking too shabby at the Augusta National. Gimme for -1 after a stunning tee shot at the 6th.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,254
    Omnium said:

    Its daft how much insulting daftness heads her way.

    I will happily defend her.
    I dont like her brand of politics, even if it is not her fathers anymore, but think it would be better if those who approve of her winning, would just say so and that they quite like most of what she stands for, rather than give it the standard "it would be funny and great if she won, but I really don't want her to" line.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,744

    Yes, but the Russians have reactivated a Cold War Third World sense of solidarity by activating thousands of trolls and bots to spread questions along the lines "and why didn't it matter in Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq" throughout the social media space.

    Because of the double-standard sense of great power machinations in their regions being largely ignored and unknown in the West throughout the Cold War, many places such as latin america and the carribean ( and Africa ) are the understandably receptive to this kind of direct message, and fairly straightforward redirecting propaganda.
    I really doubt this.

    It’s just China. The mighty and growing power of the world’s biggest trading nation: more important to all these nations than AUKUS/EU

    China is clearly on Russia’s side, for now. Why piss off your most important trading counterpart - and growing source of so much investment - in a relatively unimportant vote (to your nation)?

    Abstain. Makes total sense
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    BigRich said:

    Armenia and Azerbaijan, both did not attend the vote, probably a way of them trying to 'play both sides' without having to formally Abstain.

    BigRich said:

    Armenia and Azerbaijan, both did not attend the vote, probably a way of them trying to 'play both sides' without having to formally Abstain.

    Thanks, Big Rich. There is yet another category which I have seen at UN meetings - being in the room for the roll call and then not abstaining, but informing the chair that your country is not participating in the vote.

    Led to a very funny incident in the UN First Committee once when the Antarctic resolution came up for a roll call vote. The West traditionally did stay in the room for such votes but all announce they would not participate in the vote. It is a way of dissing a vote more than voting no.

    Now the starting country in the roll call is chosen by lots. In this case, Burundi was up first. So Canada was soon up, but no-one was in the chair. Very embarrassing for the Canadian rep, coz he was supposed to be there specifically so he could announce that Canada was no participating in the vote.

    So at the end of the roll call and the announcement of the result, you get the 'explanations of vote'. It came to Canada. "Mr. Chairman. Canada was not in the room at the time of the vote, but had we been, we would not have participated in the vote."

    NB This is a true story. I was in the room for it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536

    The semi-lame Goat not looking too shabby at the Augusta National. Gimme for -1 after a stunning tee shot at the 6th.

    He wouldn't have turned up if he didn't think he could win.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,617
    edited April 2022

    I can’t be arsed finishing it.
    I’d like to think he dies horribly in the last episode but somehow I doubt it.

    I’d like to plug “A French Village” on here again, indeed I think I discovered it after a tip-off from another poster. Set on the border of German occupied and Vichy France.

    It’s soapy and lowish budget, but bloody brilliant in a morally complex, nail-biting way. And it has Nazis. Lots of them.

    Inexcusably it’s not available in the UK, by legal means anyway.
    I did look it up after your recommendation. Since zxcv.fm stopped file sharing I don’t get stuff from non legal means. Sadly.

    The premise on Wikipedia looked really good.

    I think they will be looking to make more After the Ipcress file. I’d heard it had done well ratings wise.
This discussion has been closed.