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Johnson being CON leader at next election – a good bet? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia, and in the last couple of months that everybody is bored of Taiwan "crying wolf" about China. And he has insisted for years what a decent chap Corbyn is. He is an enormously urbane and intelligent poster, but he is also the one and only person here who is here with an agenda - whether dictated by a foreign power, and if so Russia or China, I'm not sure. But he is.

    Your first sentence is false and I think you should apologise for it (or find a citation if you can!) - of course I didn't say Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation. It does, but obviously we'd favour them anyway. I oppose the invasion and spoke at a large Ukraine solidarity rally only last week. I proposed a motion supporting Ukraine at a Labour meeting two days ago.

    Yes, I don't think Taiwan is under credible threat at all, and I'm fond of Corbyn, who i've known on and off for more than 50 years and regard as a friend. I don't turn my back on people when they become unpopular.

    As for the suggestion that I'm possibly acting on instructions from Russia or China, you're just being silly. They're both dictatonships, which I opposed even in my communist teens, and Russia, as we see, is a militarist and nationalist one as well - if you've followed my comments you'll know what I think about aggressive nationalism anywhere. I retain some sympathy with Russians as a people because of my mother, but that's as far as it goes.

    Give over, eh?
    A measured response Mr P, but I preferred my 'utter tosh' response. :smiley:
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,136

    glw said:

    Is Putin losing?



    I think it is quite clear that Putin thought he was going to get to Kyiv in a day or 2, relieve the heroic paratroopers holding the airports, tea, medals and start arresting anyone on The Lists.
    It might even had worked if the US intelligence community had not already told Ukraine who was coming, when they were coming, and where they were going to attack. Ukraine basically watched the Russians land and then shelled them, and then went in on foot to mop up the survivors. So apart from Ukraine knowing their every move it was not a bad plan.
    US intelligence is definitely a way to give major help to allies without intervening overtly - didn't we get US help that way in the Falklands war?
    Don't go there...
    "He mentioned it once, but I think he got away with it all right."
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited March 2022

    "Any Ukr who wants to come here can" says Braverman on QT.

    Suspect her mobile will be ringing from No 10 in a few minutes.



    Even Max Hastings is beating up on Cruella over Lebedev.
    Quite right too. Why should Tory’s in any shape or form anywhere close ranks now around instances of Boris’s straight forward greed and corruption. 🤑

    It’s not just the next election at stake but their reputation going into the ones following it.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    biggles said:


    Principled sovereignty point - though I started out assuming and wanting EFTA/EEA as a first step until it became clear that wasn’t possible. I believe in open borders and more or less unlimited immigration, so I’ve never felt “part” of most of those who share the objective.

    Thanks for a response that doesn’t include the words “remoaner” and “saboteurs”.

    I think EEA *was* available, but Theresa May fucked it, partly through her own incompetence and partly because she in turn was sabotaged by Johnson et al.
    You forgot to mention the word Labour. According to my Dad Labour sabotaged both the 2016 remain vote and the more business friendly Brexit by playing opposition games, and it’s why remainers should think twice about voting for the fools
    If Labour had come out for EEA in the immediate aftermath of the referendum, it likely would have happened.

    But that would have meant accepting the referendum result...
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    No. People know the Ukr are in the right here* and everything else follows.

    The social media is pushing at an open door.


    * Obviously not Chris Williamson and that Goldstein bloke from STW. But the other 60million+
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Mrs Thatcher should have gone much further and completely smashed the unions in the UK. Good employment law is enough, unions are an anachronism, I'd love to see TfL smash the RMT as well even if it meant month of strikes and spotty service or just sacking the lot of them and rehiring non-unionised staff.

    I don’t know about the RMT particularly, but it’s hard not to admire a union that secures such attractive conditions for its workers.

    Given that wage growth for most deciles has been pretty shit over the past decade or even decades, they must be doing something right.
    Having a monopoly on labour supply to certain industries is hardly worthy of admiration. We don't admire the train franchises that charge zillions for season tickets because they have an effective monopoly on the route. This is no different.
    It is different though, in the context of a corporate culture that tends towards oligopolistic, and runaway compensation growth for the top 0.5%
    Not really. It's a monopoly position, they're exploiting it just as any other monopoly does. If the RMT were split into seven unions each unable to merge and competing objectives and only 1/7th of the staff able to strike at any one time do you think it would get the same outcomes?
    Foxy said:

    Left wing twitter is saying only Brit P&O employees sacked, EU staff retained. Is that correct? And the company’s struggled on the Channel routes cos Brexit? Obvs covid won’t have helped like, but has the long term viability of the cross-channel ferries been wrecked by trucks going straight to Ireland from the continent?

    I believe the French employees are protected by French employment law, not EU law.
    Seems the most likely explanation.
    Again, this is not new. It’s easier to sack UK workers. Anyone who has ever worked across Europe knows this.

    It’s also easier to hire them.
    In France it is much harder to fire workers. To make up for this, there are much larger capital allowances for machinery - so productivity is relatively high.

    However, companies move work out of France when they can. In a large part, the Yellow Jacket protests are about this.

    You may of noticed that the war in Ukraine is disrupting parts and materials for a number of industries. Those factories were created, as part of the push too move industry to cheaper and cheaper places - Eastern Europe in general has been "mined out" of cheap labour, to a great extent (though movement there is still happening).

    Simply moving industry to the super cheap locations (undeveloped bits of Africa, say) doesn't actually get the big savings - you need a society with a semblance of modernity, rule of law and infrastructure to achieve productivity.
    Except manufacturing is no longer reliant on cheap labour (though service industries are) which is why many developed counties have strong manufacturing economies with well paid workers.
    Look at all the companies saying that their parts pyramid is being interrupted by the Ukraine war - the process I am describing has been happening on a huge scale.

    This is why since 1989, the economies of Eastern Europe have done so well (in most cases) - a river of money and jobs has poured into them. It's like watching the water flow into holes dug on a beach - levelling up in action.
    And vice versa too. That is just internationalisation of supply chains.

    Sure, some manufacturing is low paid (though even there the rag trade has increased here with fast turn around times) but increasingly it is high tech and well paid, at least compared to many service industries. Automation means far fewer employees in Britain build more cars than we did in the Seventies.

    I think that the nihilism over manufacturing from Tory freemarketerrs is over done.
    I'd agree that investment in automation onshore is a better bet in the long run.

    The effect, however at various levels in the economy is to cause economic progress to go backwards for some people, while they see shiny new towers in Bulgaria housing the jobs they once had.

    Simply ignoring this is where Le Pen & Co get their votes....
    Yes but we see with P and O that they were sold a lie. Their jobs are going to the foreigners post Brexit too.
    BREXIT was the symptom. Not the cause, or the cure.
    Brexit is a blind alley that will lead to a lost decade or two. The answer to the ills of globalisation is not speeding up globalisation.

    Still, the financiers will count their piles of money in London, Zurich and it seems in Dubai.
    There is No taking back control for anyone, once in a global village there’s no getting out of it. 😕 Taking back control was just a slogan without taking back control on the end of it. We have been globalised into a global village, there’s no taking back control from being globalised into a global village - not all the MAGA caps in the universe or all the tanks in Russia can make much a dent in world we are now.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,366
    mwadams said:

    glw said:

    Is Putin losing?



    I think it is quite clear that Putin thought he was going to get to Kyiv in a day or 2, relieve the heroic paratroopers holding the airports, tea, medals and start arresting anyone on The Lists.
    It might even had worked if the US intelligence community had not already told Ukraine who was coming, when they were coming, and where they were going to attack. Ukraine basically watched the Russians land and then shelled them, and then went in on foot to mop up the survivors. So apart from Ukraine knowing their every move it was not a bad plan.
    US intelligence is definitely a way to give major help to allies without intervening overtly - didn't we get US help that way in the Falklands war?
    Don't go there...
    "He mentioned it once, but I think he got away with it all right."
    And he didn't start it.

    General Galtieri did.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161

    "Any Ukr who wants to come here can" says Braverman on QT.

    Suspect her mobile will be ringing from No 10 in a few minutes.



    Even Max Hastings is beating up on Cruella over Lebedev.
    Hasting hates Johnson. iirc because he actually had to line manage him in the past at a newspaper. But of course he is right over all this RU slush money business.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531
    edited March 2022
    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited March 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Evidence? Macron is about to be convincingly re elected in France and is as liberal a democrat as any. Trudeau is a Liberal PM in Canada, even Boris is a Conservative with liberal elements and hardly a Fascist. Scholz is a centrist German Chancellor with liberals in government.

    Trump won one election without winning the popular vote then was not re elected. Even now he is still the Democrats best hope of re election.

    Yes in the developing world there are more populists and fewer liberals. Yet the developing world has never been that liberal and even now is less full of the Latin American Fascists and Communists of much of Asia and Africa of the Cold War period.

    Putin is a Nationalist but Russian leaders have almost always been Communist or Nationalist or absolute monarchs
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Indeed. Hence watching South African politics often looks like it's Corbynites or The Squad versus Stalin.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia, and in the last couple of months that everybody is bored of Taiwan "crying wolf" about China. And he has insisted for years what a decent chap Corbyn is. He is an enormously urbane and intelligent poster, but he is also the one and only person here who is here with an agenda - whether dictated by a foreign power, and if so Russia or China, I'm not sure. But he is.

    Your first sentence is false and I think you should apologise for it (or find a citation if you can!) - of course I didn't say Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation. It does, but obviously we'd favour them anyway. I oppose the invasion and spoke at a large Ukraine solidarity rally only last week. I proposed a motion supporting Ukraine at a Labour meeting two days ago.

    Yes, I don't think Taiwan is under credible threat at all, and I'm fond of Corbyn, who i've known on and off for more than 50 years and regard as a friend. I don't turn my back on people when they become unpopular.

    As for the suggestion that I'm possibly acting on instructions from Russia or China, you're just being silly. They're both dictatonships, which I opposed even in my communist teens, and Russia, as we see, is a militarist and nationalist one as well - if you've followed my comments you'll know what I think about aggressive nationalism anywhere. I retain some sympathy with Russians as a people because of my mother, but that's as far as it goes.

    Give over, eh?
    A measured response Mr P, but I preferred my 'utter tosh' response. :smiley:
    Appreciated it! I have enough unpopular opinions to have a go at, and that's fine, but I do object to people making stuff up.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Most of Africa was neutral in the Cold War too except those African countries under white minority rule still like South Africa which no longer applies.

    Though Kenya has commendably condemned Putin's actions
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Evidence? Macron is about to be convincingly re elected in France and is as liberal a democrat as any. Trudeau is a Liberal PM in Canada, even Boris is a Conservative with liberal elements and hardly a Fascist. Scholz is a centrist German Chancellor with liberals in government.

    Trump won one election without winning the popular vote then was not re elected. Even now he is still the Democrats best hope of re election.

    Yes in the developing world there are more populists and fewer liberals. Yet the developing world has never been that liberal and even now is less full of the Latin American Fascists and Communists of much of Asia and Africa of the Cold War period.

    Putin is a Nationalist but Russian leaders have almost always been Communist or Nationalist or absolute monarchs
    Also the Americans routed a coup attempt barely a year ago. Democracy there is firmly entrenched, whatever the exaggerated political rhetoric may lead us to think.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Most of Africa was neutral in the Cold War too except those African countries under white minority rule still like South Africa which no longer applies.

    Though Kenya has commendably condemned Putin's actions
    Virtually every national liberation movement on the continent from Algiers to Capetown was funded and armed by the Soviets. Hardly neutral.

    At least we didn't nuke the Mau Mau or Nasser though.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
    I haven’t a clue what that means 🤷‍♀️

    Correct me where wrong, When Lenin’s sealed train, and boat, reached Russia it’s the Liberal Democrat Party that’s waiting for him, for that’s the party he is in and the ones governing Russia that day. And he tore them off a strip because his party colleagues had stopped the revolution he wanted. The smaller Liberal Democrat party faction were Lenin supporters, called themselves bolsheviks to make out they are in the majority. One of our PB historians (not Dr Y he goes to bed early but maybe HYUFD might back me up, because the way to view is it not post 20th century but with our mind in the 19th century the century of liberal revolutions thst throw off feudalism where left and right, especially in 1948, were on the same side. In fact I think St Bart will support me on this: first of all feudalism and mercantilism had to go, and then the argument between socialism and capitalism. You can’t really have Soviet Union without capitalism, it’s like vital ingredients of a cake)

    I hope that helps. By all means correct me where wrong.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Most of Africa was neutral in the Cold War too except those African countries under white minority rule still like South Africa which no longer applies.

    Though Kenya has commendably condemned Putin's actions
    Virtually every national liberation movement on the continent from Algiers to Capetown was funded and armed by the Soviets. Hardly neutral.

    At least we didn't nuke the Mau Mau or Nasser though.
    Don’t get him started!
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


    Have you just doxxed IshmaelZ 🤦‍♀️
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,213
    edited March 2022

    "Any Ukr who wants to come here can" says Braverman on QT.

    Suspect her mobile will be ringing from No 10 in a few minutes.



    Even Max Hastings is beating up on Cruella over Lebedev.
    Hasting hates Johnson. iirc because he actually had to line manage him in the past at a newspaper. But of course he is right over all this RU slush money business.

    Boris Johnson says "We will protect you"
    I don't subscribe to this point of view
    Believe me when I say to you
    I hope the Russians love their children too
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


    I think I’ve seen that film. He’s a plumber, as I recall.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Most of Africa was neutral in the Cold War too except those African countries under white minority rule still like South Africa which no longer applies.

    Though Kenya has commendably condemned Putin's actions
    Virtually every national liberation movement on the continent from Algiers to Capetown was funded and armed by the Soviets. Hardly neutral.

    At least we didn't nuke the Mau Mau or Nasser though.
    Apart from Angola, Mozambique and Ethiopia, every other African nation was neutral in the Cold War or in a few cases like apartheid South Africa backed the West

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    biggles said:

    Cookie said:

    In other news, this opportunity to blame the French will, I'm sure, warm a few cockles: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/17/france-exported-bombs-aircraft-russia-2014-eu-arms-embargo/

    I’ve never felt I needed evidence in order to blame the French.
    This is not what I need. Because that article seems to suggest that France is better governed, and a better international citizen, since Macron became president.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited March 2022
    biggles said:

    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


    I think I’ve seen that film. He’s a plumber, as I recall.
    A plumber? I didn’t order a plumber.

    Loving the bow on her leggings.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Spectator — Francis Fukuyama article on why he believes Russia could be heading for outright defeat.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk

    Mmm.

    I hate aftertiming, but PB didn't exist when his The End of History thesis first got publicity (1999?) so you will just have to take my word for it that I identified it at the time as the thesis of a complete and utter wanker. And here we are in 2022...
    Yes, it was the equivalent of the late 19th century physicists who thought they’d sorted all of physics, apart from a few small tidying up issues, just before quantum theory exploded everything.
    My very first comment when the book was described to me by a very close and long-standing friends was "Bollocks. The pendulum is going to swing back."
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
    Leicester edge thriller to stay on course for first European trophy. Well done then. 2022EUROPA CONFERENCE LEAGUE Bar charts say Leicester winning here.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328

    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


    Don't you just love the dominant positioning of the male and the adoring, subservient look from the female?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    biggles said:

    biggles said:


    Principled sovereignty point - though I started out assuming and wanting EFTA/EEA as a first step until it became clear that wasn’t possible. I believe in open borders and more or less unlimited immigration, so I’ve never felt “part” of most of those who share the objective.

    Thanks for a response that doesn’t include the words “remoaner” and “saboteurs”.

    I think EEA *was* available, but Theresa May fucked it, partly through her own incompetence and partly because she in turn was sabotaged by Johnson et al.
    Yeah, the main problem with May making EEA land was that it would have sealed her Premiership and then Johnson wouldn't have got a go. And that would never have done.

    (I'm not convinced that EEA works in the medium term, because the autonomy in some things / vassalage in many things tradeoff works for a small nation but not for a large one. But it was the rational place to stand while working out what to do next as a nation. But nobody (and I mean nobody) was being rational in 2016.)
    Exactly my view at the time. You “park” in the EEA, process the stuff that you repatriate by doing that, then think about phase two.
    Me too!

    Sadly we were not running Brexit policy.
    I do find it intriguing though that we had the same general view, but were in two very opposing camps.
    The sad reality is that politics, especially following that sort of a campaign, is the enemy of rationality I think. We were both in the logical place that would have reflected the result and allowed a proper debate about the other options in due course. I am sure you and I would have been (and still are) in disagreement about those choices, but there was a way of managing the process that avoided all (or at least a lot of) the shouting.

    I think, in the end, we’ll be the key player in a “ring” of European nations that don’t want to (or won’t be allowed) to join the EU. There was a way to manage that as an outcome with the EU.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Most of Africa was neutral in the Cold War too except those African countries under white minority rule still like South Africa which no longer applies.

    Though Kenya has commendably condemned Putin's actions
    Virtually every national liberation movement on the continent from Algiers to Capetown was funded and armed by the Soviets. Hardly neutral.

    At least we didn't nuke the Mau Mau or Nasser though.
    That's only because Maggie wasn't President and Eden was a wuss.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
    I haven’t a clue what that means 🤷‍♀️

    Correct me where wrong, When Lenin’s sealed train, and boat, reached Russia it’s the Liberal Democrat Party that’s waiting for him, for that’s the party he is in and the ones governing Russia that day. And he tore them off a strip because his party colleagues had stopped the revolution he wanted. The smaller Liberal Democrat party faction were Lenin supporters, called themselves bolsheviks to make out they are in the majority. One of our PB historians (not Dr Y he goes to bed early but maybe HYUFD might back me up, because the way to view is it not post 20th century but with our mind in the 19th century the century of liberal revolutions thst throw off feudalism where left and right, especially in 1948, were on the same side. In fact I think St Bart will support me on this: first of all feudalism and mercantilism had to go, and then the argument between socialism and capitalism. You can’t really have Soviet Union without capitalism, it’s like vital ingredients of a cake)

    I hope that helps. By all means correct me where wrong.
    Obviously 1848 not 1948.

    The main point rather lost being, before Germans get Lenin there, the Liberal Democrats have it on the way to peace not more revolution, and the sort of Liberal Democracy like 1920s UK perhaps could still have happened. If the Germans had not sent Lenin there maybe all the Soviet Union rubbish might never happened. Another thing to blame Germans for, add it to our little list.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    TimT said:

    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


    Don't you just love the dominant positioning of the male and the adoring, subservient look from the female?
    Her expression maybe he’s just farted over her head
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    biggles said:

    Lol, this just popped up on my twitter.

    Plaid stallions rool.


    I think I’ve seen that film. He’s a plumber, as I recall.
    A plumber? I didn’t order a plumber.

    Loving the bow on her leggings.
    In fact I love the top as well. I love 70s fashion.
  • Options
    DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 143
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    It's interesting that at roughly the same time the limit for contactless payments rose to £100, a new £25 limit on internet payments unless you get confirmation via a message is brought in. Odd how those two things have moved in opposite directions so to speak.

    Sorry, what is the £25 thing? I don't want to brag but I have been known to send/make payments of at least £26 pretty much constantly and while I have noticed quite an uptick in 2FA authorisation it deffo isn't the norm, even into five figures.

    (figures may include those after the decimal point)

    (and the decimal point)
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
    I understand what you are saying Robert. It is quite worrying isn’t it 😆
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
  • Options
    TimTTimT Posts: 6,328
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I can accept that there is no universally agreed right and wrong in the cynical corridors of the UN Security Council where a Permanent Member with veto power is happy insisting blue is red, red is green, and green is blue.

    But there sure as hell is an actual right/wrong and good/evil when civilian targets are being deliberately targeted.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I can accept that there is no universally agreed right and wrong in the cynical corridors of the UN Security Council where a Permanent Member with veto power is happy insisting blue is red, red is green, and green is blue.

    But there sure as hell is an actual right/wrong and good/evil when civilian targets are being deliberately targeted.
    On behalf of those killed whilst queuing for bread or out looking for food for their families here is sad sad meme

    image
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
    Just by Pomona, where are you?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    Excellent trolling by Canada:

    https://twitter.com/CanadaUN/status/1504464863510335488

    Is this the first ever troll war? I had expected Russia to be winning the Internet meme war with its bots and farms, but they're nowhere. Like Chelsea, their assets have been frozen, and whilst the rest of the world are on the pitch having a friendly knockabout, Russia's memes are stuck on the 3.15 coach to Aberystwyth. When the match is in Grimsby...
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
    Just by Pomona, where are you?
    Phew: way West. I'm in Brentwood near the Santa Monica border.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I think @Dura_Ace is a little embarrassed by how wrongly he's called the whole conflict, and is throwing out random shit.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
    Just by Pomona, where are you?
    Phew: way West. I'm in Brentwood near the Santa Monica border.
    Don’t worry, I’m down that way a few times this week 😀
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
    Just by Pomona, where are you?
    Phew: way West. I'm in Brentwood near the Santa Monica border.
    Don’t worry, I’m down that way a few times this week 😀
    DMed you
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MrEd said:

    Evening from a sunny LA. FYI, the ratio of Russian / Ukrainian equipment losses documented by the Oryx website is now 4:1. Last weekend it was 3.5-3.6x and has been steadily increasing each day suggesting Ukrainian tactics are getting more effective and / or the Russians are getting more reckless / demoralised.

    It’s really hard to see how Russia can continue with this pace of losses, which is only likely to get worse given (1) increased Western aid (2) the bringing to combat readiness of more of the Ukrainian population (3) the likely deterioration in quality of the Russian forces and (4) the upcoming mid season.

    Western (and other) military assessments are also moving more in the direction of Ukraine having at least a chance to check the Russians. Chinese state media also seems to be moving more away from a pro-Russia position.

    Let’s see what happens but some positive signs

    Where in LA are you?
    Just by Pomona, where are you?
    Phew: way West. I'm in Brentwood near the Santa Monica border.
    Don’t worry, I’m down that way a few times this week 😀
    DMed you
    Cheers Robert, just replied
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I think @Dura_Ace is a little embarrassed by how wrongly he's called the whole conflict, and is throwing out random shit.
    Well he’s not entirely wrong with his ‘partially true’ comment on the clash of memes. But that’s largely because one side is pushing 100% horseshit, which became obvious to anyone once they started bombing civilians.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Good article on the pathology of dictatorships.

    Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/

    There’s a lot more to democracy than the ability to kick out the guy at the top according to accepted rules, but look at the alternative to see how important that is.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    Another way Russia is trashing its economy in the medium and long term. Russia supplies a lot of high-tech aerospace-grade titanium to aerospace companies. Russia gained world-leading experience in manufacturing with titanium in the sixties and seventies with their titanium-hulled submarines (e.g. Alfa class). Whilst Russia are not the only source of titanium, they have experience with it.

    Boeing and Airbus do a large amount of trade with Russia for titanium, as do the engine manufacturers. But the sanctions mean they cannot deal with Russia, so they will be using up their stockpiles as they try desperately to get other suppliers up to speed and certified.

    So this is a significant short-term issue for Airbus, Boeing, GE, RR etc. But a solvable one. When the sanctions end though, will they go back to Russia as a supplier of titanium bits? And even if they do, will they do so on the same favourable terms to Russia now they have alternate suppliers?

    And it is not just titanium: the Russian materials sector is massive, and customers will be looking elsewhere. Platinum, palladium, lithium, etc, etc.

    It's not just gas and oil.

    Russia is screwed.

    (h/t Mentour aviation)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
    I haven’t a clue what that means 🤷‍♀️

    Correct me where wrong, When Lenin’s sealed train, and boat, reached Russia it’s the Liberal Democrat Party that’s waiting for him, for that’s the party he is in and the ones governing Russia that day. And he tore them off a strip because his party colleagues had stopped the revolution he wanted. The smaller Liberal Democrat party faction were Lenin supporters, called themselves bolsheviks to make out they are in the majority. One of our PB historians (not Dr Y he goes to bed early but maybe HYUFD might back me up, because the way to view is it not post 20th century but with our mind in the 19th century the century of liberal revolutions thst throw off feudalism where left and right, especially in 1948, were on the same side. In fact I think St Bart will support me on this: first of all feudalism and mercantilism had to go, and then the argument between socialism and capitalism. You can’t really have Soviet Union without capitalism, it’s like vital ingredients of a cake)

    I hope that helps. By all means correct me where wrong.
    If you like:

    1) Lenin wasn’t a member of the Liberal Democrats. He was a member of the Social Democratic Labour Party.

    2) They did provide several members of the provisional government, but most members were from the Socialist Revolutionaries and their allies.

    3) It’s also misleading to characterise Lenin as being in the same party as Martov. Although it’s technically true, the party had over the previous 15 years split into factions, of which the three largest were the Mensheviks, who looked to Martov, the Bolsheviks, who looked to Lenin, and an unaligned group led by Trotsky that flitted between the two.

    4) The reason Lenin’s supporters were called ‘Bolsheviks’ is that at the meeting in London where the split happened they had a majority of votes. That wasn’t representative of the party at large, which is why the name became used ironically.

    5) Russia was not going down the path of liberal democracy before Lenin and Trotsky wrecked it. If Lenin hadn’t seized power and established a dictatorship, somebody else would have done, possibly Kornilov. Any realistic chance Russia could have developed democratically died with Alexander II in 1881.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,058
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
    I haven’t a clue what that means 🤷‍♀️

    Correct me where wrong, When Lenin’s sealed train, and boat, reached Russia it’s the Liberal Democrat Party that’s waiting for him, for that’s the party he is in and the ones governing Russia that day. And he tore them off a strip because his party colleagues had stopped the revolution he wanted. The smaller Liberal Democrat party faction were Lenin supporters, called themselves bolsheviks to make out they are in the majority. One of our PB historians (not Dr Y he goes to bed early but maybe HYUFD might back me up, because the way to view is it not post 20th century but with our mind in the 19th century the century of liberal revolutions thst throw off feudalism where left and right, especially in 1948, were on the same side. In fact I think St Bart will support me on this: first of all feudalism and mercantilism had to go, and then the argument between socialism and capitalism. You can’t really have Soviet Union without capitalism, it’s like vital ingredients of a cake)

    I hope that helps. By all means correct me where wrong.
    If you like:

    1) Lenin wasn’t a member of the Liberal Democrats. He was a member of the Social Democratic Labour Party.

    2) They did provide several members of the provisional government, but most members were from the Socialist Revolutionaries and their allies.

    3) It’s also misleading to characterise Lenin as being in the same party as Martov. Although it’s technically true, the party had over the previous 15 years split into factions, of which the three largest were the Mensheviks, who looked to Martov, the Bolsheviks, who looked to Lenin, and an unaligned group led by Trotsky that flitted between the two.

    4) The reason Lenin’s supporters were called ‘Bolsheviks’ is that at the meeting in London where the split happened they had a majority of votes. That wasn’t representative of the party at large, which is why the name became used ironically.

    5) Russia was not going down the path of liberal democracy before Lenin and Trotsky wrecked it. If Lenin hadn’t seized power and established a dictatorship, somebody else would have done, possibly Kornilov. Any realistic chance Russia could have developed democratically died with Alexander II in 1881.
    Comrade Lenin, winning here
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Interesting thread on the challenge caused by demography to the Russian war effort:

    How to sabotage Russian war efforts?

    There are ways to sabotage Russian war capacities by focusing on its three major bottlenecks: demographic, economic & institutional. Let's start with demography. Russian started this war suffering from the shortage of young draftable males🧵


    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504585616834457619?s=20&t=BkOZAIAOm7877onjyHzFig
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    MOD update:

    Russian forces have made minimal progress this week.

    Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities. The cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol remain encircled and subject to heavy Russian shelling.

    The UN now states that the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Ukraine has already surpassed 3.2 million. This number will continue to rise as a result of ongoing Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1504701568565886999
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924
    Nigelb said:

    Good article on the pathology of dictatorships.

    Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/

    There’s a lot more to democracy than the ability to kick out the guy at the top according to accepted rules, but look at the alternative to see how important that is.

    That's an excellent piece.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    edited March 2022
    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Liberal democracy is dying and the US will be the first to fall. What follows will be far worse than communism would have been. You had your chance.
    Communism isn't compatible with liberal democracy, and who's to say that communism isn't what's coming to the US anyway?
    I think Lenin and the Bolshevik’s were actually in the Liberal Democrat party?
    Certainty knew their barcharts, but more felt boots than sandals imo.
    I haven’t a clue what that means 🤷‍♀️

    Correct me where wrong, When Lenin’s sealed train, and boat, reached Russia it’s the Liberal Democrat Party that’s waiting for him, for that’s the party he is in and the ones governing Russia that day. And he tore them off a strip because his party colleagues had stopped the revolution he wanted. The smaller Liberal Democrat party faction were Lenin supporters, called themselves bolsheviks to make out they are in the majority. One of our PB historians (not Dr Y he goes to bed early but maybe HYUFD might back me up, because the way to view is it not post 20th century but with our mind in the 19th century the century of liberal revolutions thst throw off feudalism where left and right, especially in 1948, were on the same side. In fact I think St Bart will support me on this: first of all feudalism and mercantilism had to go, and then the argument between socialism and capitalism. You can’t really have Soviet Union without capitalism, it’s like vital ingredients of a cake)

    I hope that helps. By all means correct me where wrong.
    If you like:

    1) Lenin wasn’t a member of the Liberal Democrats. He was a member of the Social Democratic Labour Party.

    2) They did provide several members of the provisional government, but most members were from the Socialist Revolutionaries and their allies.

    3) It’s also misleading to characterise Lenin as being in the same party as Martov. Although it’s technically true, the party had over the previous 15 years split into factions, of which the three largest were the Mensheviks, who looked to Martov, the Bolsheviks, who looked to Lenin, and an unaligned group led by Trotsky that flitted between the two.

    4) The reason Lenin’s supporters were called ‘Bolsheviks’ is that at the meeting in London where the split happened they had a majority of votes. That wasn’t representative of the party at large, which is why the name became used ironically.

    5) Russia was not going down the path of liberal democracy before Lenin and Trotsky wrecked it. If Lenin hadn’t seized power and established a dictatorship, somebody else would have done, possibly Kornilov. Any realistic chance Russia could have developed democratically died with Alexander II in 1881.
    Comrade Lenin, winning here
    Well, it certainly wasn’t Pavel Milyukov, winning here.

    Or indeed the people of the Russian Empire…
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    Interesting thread on the challenge caused by demography to the Russian war effort:

    How to sabotage Russian war efforts?

    There are ways to sabotage Russian war capacities by focusing on its three major bottlenecks: demographic, economic & institutional. Let's start with demography. Russian started this war suffering from the shortage of young draftable males🧵


    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504585616834457619?s=20&t=BkOZAIAOm7877onjyHzFig

    Are they in a situation similar to that of the UK at the time of the Boer War? The diet of the poorer people was so bad that young men were unfit for military service.
    It was why school dinners were introduced.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982

    Interesting thread on the challenge caused by demography to the Russian war effort:

    How to sabotage Russian war efforts?

    There are ways to sabotage Russian war capacities by focusing on its three major bottlenecks: demographic, economic & institutional. Let's start with demography. Russian started this war suffering from the shortage of young draftable males🧵


    https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504585616834457619?s=20&t=BkOZAIAOm7877onjyHzFig

    Are they in a situation similar to that of the UK at the time of the Boer War? The diet of the poorer people was so bad that young men were unfit for military service.
    It was why school dinners were introduced.
    I can't imagine the gopniks' feet (which will have spent their first 18 years in knock-off Chinese adidas) will quickly or painlessly adapt to the glory of the kirza boot either.
  • Options
    Morning all! Another sunny day in Cyaak! I'm conducting 5 interviews today, been a few years thanks to the pox and going off consulting so this should be fun*. Happily this is only a 1st round CV walk through to find out how they tick and then decide if we want to do a more formal 2nd round.

    Happily with the positive societal benefits gifted us by Covid forcing changes in how we do stuff, they're all on Teams. Stack em and rack em!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,267

    MOD update:

    Russian forces have made minimal progress this week.

    Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities. The cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol remain encircled and subject to heavy Russian shelling.

    The UN now states that the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Ukraine has already surpassed 3.2 million. This number will continue to rise as a result of ongoing Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1504701568565886999

    The two things are linked.

    Russia has so many forces investing other cities, and protecting its supply lines, that they aren't strong enough anywhere to launch a decisive assualt - particularly in Kyiv.

    They are attacking Ukraine like they have 500,000+ troops, like the Red Army did in WWII, rather than the 175k troops they really have. I suspect that's down to the Russian generals being too afraid to tell Putin the truth and give him proper military advice. Now, any withdrawal and consolidation of forces would be a humiliation, so he's stuck and probably will become increasingly enraged about it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    MOD update:

    Russian forces have made minimal progress this week.

    Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities. The cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol remain encircled and subject to heavy Russian shelling.

    The UN now states that the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Ukraine has already surpassed 3.2 million. This number will continue to rise as a result of ongoing Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1504701568565886999

    The two things are linked.

    Russia has so many forces investing other cities, and protecting its supply lines, that they aren't strong enough anywhere to launch a decisive assualt - particularly in Kyiv.

    They are attacking Ukraine like they have 500,000+ troops, like the Red Army did in WWII, rather than the 175k troops they really have. I suspect that's down to the Russian generals being too afraid to tell Putin the truth and give him proper military advice. Now, any withdrawal and consolidation of forces would be a humiliation, so he's stuck and probably will become increasingly enraged about it.
    Can the attack on Ukraine be sold as the Great Patriotic War, as WWII was? PoW's and the wounded are, I strongly suspect, getting much better treatment from the Ukrainians than Red Army troops in a similar situation did from the Wehrmacht.
    And these things get back!
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982
    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    At least know we know what's behind the RAF purchase of 2 x Dassault Falcon 900LX which have the legs for BZN-ASI. Although they are going to be flown by civvie crews probably for reasons of some sibylline legal arcana.

    The first French built aircraft in British military service since the Nieuport Scout by my reckoning.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531

    MOD update:

    Russian forces have made minimal progress this week.

    Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities. The cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol remain encircled and subject to heavy Russian shelling.

    The UN now states that the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Ukraine has already surpassed 3.2 million. This number will continue to rise as a result of ongoing Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1504701568565886999

    The two things are linked.

    Russia has so many forces investing other cities, and protecting its supply lines, that they aren't strong enough anywhere to launch a decisive assualt - particularly in Kyiv.

    They are attacking Ukraine like they have 500,000+ troops, like the Red Army did in WWII, rather than the 175k troops they really have. I suspect that's down to the Russian generals being too afraid to tell Putin the truth and give him proper military advice. Now, any withdrawal and consolidation of forces would be a humiliation, so he's stuck and probably will become increasingly enraged about it.
    Can the attack on Ukraine be sold as the Great Patriotic War, as WWII was? PoW's and the wounded are, I strongly suspect, getting much better treatment from the Ukrainians than Red Army troops in a similar situation did from the Wehrmacht.
    And these things get back!
    The polling in Russia does seem to show
    widespread support for the war, from Survation:

    A significant majority of Russians (69%) believe the military's purpose is that of a “Liberator” which is a stated purpose of the Kremlin, 62% see Russia’s role as “peacekeeper”. Just 13% see Russia as the “aggressor". https://t.co/7d4yBARea6

    Much lower support in the military age though:


  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,531
    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    I can see shipping Ukranian asylum seekers to Rwanda isn't exactly the spirit of the times.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,109
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    At least know we know what's behind the RAF purchase of 2 x Dassault Falcon 900LX which have the legs for BZN-ASI. Although they are going to be flown by civvie crews probably for reasons of some sibylline legal arcana.

    The first French built aircraft in British military service since the Nieuport Scout by my reckoning.
    It's a sop, with added stupidity, for the backbenches.

    Have a good morning,
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    At least know we know what's behind the RAF purchase of 2 x Dassault Falcon 900LX which have the legs for BZN-ASI. Although they are going to be flown by civvie crews probably for reasons of some sibylline legal arcana.

    The first French built aircraft in British military service since the Nieuport Scout by my reckoning.
    There are two dark blue (what I was told were Dassault) that fly over Dartmouth regularly and again, I was told, are full of kit that can simulate an attack on a warship - and which they use at Britannia Naval College for training the cadets.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    At least know we know what's behind the RAF purchase of 2 x Dassault Falcon 900LX which have the legs for BZN-ASI. Although they are going to be flown by civvie crews probably for reasons of some sibylline legal arcana.

    The first French built aircraft in British military service since the Nieuport Scout by my reckoning.
    When even her backbenchers are describing it as insane, and with significant public sympathy for refugees, surely this must be ditched ?
    This isn't some policy disagreement; it's just mad.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    Foxy said:

    MOD update:

    Russian forces have made minimal progress this week.

    Ukrainian forces around Kyiv and Mykolaiv continue to frustrate Russian attempts to encircle the cities. The cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv, Sumy and Mariupol remain encircled and subject to heavy Russian shelling.

    The UN now states that the number of refugees fleeing the conflict in Ukraine has already surpassed 3.2 million. This number will continue to rise as a result of ongoing Russian aggression.


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1504701568565886999

    The two things are linked.

    Russia has so many forces investing other cities, and protecting its supply lines, that they aren't strong enough anywhere to launch a decisive assualt - particularly in Kyiv.

    They are attacking Ukraine like they have 500,000+ troops, like the Red Army did in WWII, rather than the 175k troops they really have. I suspect that's down to the Russian generals being too afraid to tell Putin the truth and give him proper military advice. Now, any withdrawal and consolidation of forces would be a humiliation, so he's stuck and probably will become increasingly enraged about it.
    Can the attack on Ukraine be sold as the Great Patriotic War, as WWII was? PoW's and the wounded are, I strongly suspect, getting much better treatment from the Ukrainians than Red Army troops in a similar situation did from the Wehrmacht.
    And these things get back!
    The polling in Russia does seem to show
    widespread support for the war, from Survation:

    A significant majority of Russians (69%) believe the military's purpose is that of a “Liberator” which is a stated purpose of the Kremlin, 62% see Russia’s role as “peacekeeper”. Just 13% see Russia as the “aggressor". https://t.co/7d4yBARea6

    Much lower support in the military age though:


    It's possible, but how reliable is polling in an increasingly repressive dictatorship ?
    Would you honestly answer any political questions from a polling company ?

    On the meme front, there are some decent Russian efforts. Not exactly supportive of the war though.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/WarTranslation/status/1504693893807239170
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    New FSB whistleblower (Ukrainian psyops?) letter:

    As many know. this alleged whistleblower has continued sending long-winded letters to http://Gulagu.net. I haven't changed my position on the authenticity. The content and style are consistent with FSB/GRU analytical reports I have read. This doesn't mean they are correct.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1504724839654907931
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,573
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What a dickbag. Buying into Russian talking points hook, line and sinker (or pretending to, which makes no difference).

    South African President Cyril Ramaphosa on Thursday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and said he would resist calls to condemn Russia, in comments that cast doubt over whether he would be accepted by Ukraine or the West as a mediator.

    "The war could have been avoided if NATO had heeded the warnings from amongst its own leaders and officials over the years that its eastward expansion would lead to greater, not less, instability in the region," Ramaphosa said in response to questions in parliament.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safricas-ramaphosa-blames-nato-russias-war-ukraine-2022-03-17/

    I had thought Ramaphosa one of the good guys. Seems he is infected with the same brain-depleting virus as Chris Williamson.

    Even Iran and China don’t believe this shit.
    The invasion is an act of such startlingly disproportionate violence even if every concern raised by Russia and Russia's catamites were true, which they aren't, that it has provoked some very unusual clarity, coherence and rapidity among the West, and even caused most of those opposed to the West to at least play it cool. That South Africa's leaders cannot even go that far suggests very bad things.
    South Africa's politics have been increasingly concerning for a number of years. The emergence of the EFF has pulled the ANC further left and outside of the Western Cape, the DA isn't really getting anywhere.
    There is a long history in Africa of gratitude for all the support from the Soviets for national liberation movements, and in Asia too. Its a bit like British Tankies not noticing the last 30 years of post Soviet Russian history and economy.
    Most of Africa was neutral in the Cold War too except those African countries under white minority rule still like South Africa which no longer applies.

    Though Kenya has commendably condemned Putin's actions
    Virtually every national liberation movement on the continent from Algiers to Capetown was funded and armed by the Soviets. Hardly neutral.

    At least we didn't nuke the Mau Mau or Nasser though.
    Apart from Angola, Mozambique and Ethiopia, every other African nation was neutral in the Cold War or in a few cases like apartheid South Africa backed the West

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War
    I see you are going to embarrass yourself again on another historical topic by pontificating on something you didn't live through and know nothing about.

    The West and Russia fought numerous proxy wars anywhere they could in the cold war. Typically Russia backed an evil communist faction and we backed corrupt gangsters willing to fight them. Between us we caused misery in the third world. At least we had the excuse of no one better to support.
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    It would be a surprise if Russia aren't using the time to reinforce troops, stocks and refresh plans. Ukraine will be doing similar.
    The difference is that Ukraine is likely to have a better knowledge of Russian plans and movements through intelligence than Russia will of Ukraine activities. That should give Ukraine an advantage, assuming intelligence gathering is still high quality.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,113
    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    War is just diplomacy by other means. Talks to often, maybe even usually, take place before the guns fall silent.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,916
    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    I swing between optimism and pessimism. PB yesterday was line an online meeting of Pessimists Anonymous.

    This morning I'm probably more positive for positive for Ukraine than I have been at any time during this war. The longer it goes on. the harder it gets for Russia as their economy tanks and Ukraine gets more advanced weapons. Russia may still 'win', but I think a Ukraine 'win' is certainly possible.

    Escalation by Putin is an imponderable that I'm finding better for my mental health *not* to ponder...
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    At least know we know what's behind the RAF purchase of 2 x Dassault Falcon 900LX which have the legs for BZN-ASI. Although they are going to be flown by civvie crews probably for reasons of some sibylline legal arcana.

    The first French built aircraft in British military service since the Nieuport Scout by my reckoning.
    There are two dark blue (what I was told were Dassault) that fly over Dartmouth regularly and again, I was told, are full of kit that can simulate an attack on a warship - and which they use at Britannia Naval College for training the cadets.
    Those are the FRA/Cobham Falcon 20s and are civvie registered. The 20 had the same wing as the Mystere and therefore the wired hardpoints for pylons. This made them very useful for carrying pods to simulate threats, etc.

    I was wrong anyway. I forgot about the Boscombe Alphas. Aquired because Hawks were too departure resistant to train test pilots.


  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't P+O a monopolistic supplier of some ferry routes owned by an undemocratic, Autocratic government?
    Strange hill for lovers of the "free market" to fight on.
    But Unions.

    You are wrong. What makes you think anybody "owns" a ferry route?
    Syntactical issue there my friend. P+O are owned, not the ferry routes.
    Although it is difficult for any NI to Scotland start up when the only port is owned by P+O too.
    Not as big a port but they could restart services from Troon
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good article on the pathology of dictatorships.

    Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/

    There’s a lot more to democracy than the ability to kick out the guy at the top according to accepted rules, but look at the alternative to see how important that is.

    That's an excellent piece.
    I like it. But one thing that is missing is that nearly all dictators are not absolute - they are not God Kings ordering around cowering pawns. Usually. Instead, they are usually riding a whole "streak"* of tigers. With all the fun that cat herding implies.

    For example, for years I found Napoleon quite hard to understand. His actions didn't match "the Great Man directing Europe like an orchestra" that you find in many works on him. Then I found better historians, who detailed the interactions between Napoleon and the power centres at home.

    Inefficiency through duplication, competition in the wrong places, promoting the incompetent - these are tools of statecraft to the dictator. To keep those below, down.

    Another is belief - the article touches on the idea of the hyper rational dictator playing chess. But what is it for? Not just self-delusion by propaganda - though belief is often that. Stalin believed in Communism, Henry VIII believed he was fulfilling God's Will and advancing the cause of Truth....

    *Apparently the word for a group of tigers...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    edited March 2022

    New FSB whistleblower (Ukrainian psyops?) letter:

    As many know. this alleged whistleblower has continued sending long-winded letters to http://Gulagu.net. I haven't changed my position on the authenticity. The content and style are consistent with FSB/GRU analytical reports I have read. This doesn't mean they are correct.

    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1504724839654907931

    Google translate at work....

    "And "Sunsepeks" still need to be brought to Kiev, risking turning the entire column into dust after just one successful hit. A massive UAV attack, a lonely artillery volley, an ambush - one hit in one particular car - and the result will be grandiosely negative."

    Is the writer saying that Russian tactical nukes are not one-point safe?

    FFS

    EDIT:

    "And the key surprise is that Ukraine was left from centralized management, all military decisions were completely given to the military (without political tasks). The same was the case with the regional authorities, which made the operational management extremely flexible. Taking into account the fact that the information battle was lost, this war became domestic for Ukrainians, destroying plans for the format of the special operation finally."

    Reading that piece from the 16th in WSJ about the defence of a small town in Ukraine - it was very much local initiative, backed by the central armed forces. Local farmers scarping a river bank to prevent amphibious crossing directed by the Mayor etc etc...
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,715
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Patel’s plans to process asylum seekers abroad facing Tory rebellion
    Rebels not sure if they have enough support to defeat home secretary’s ‘clearly ridiculous’ borders bill
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/mar/18/patels-plans-to-process-asylum-seekers-abroad-facing-tory-rebellion

    At least know we know what's behind the RAF purchase of 2 x Dassault Falcon 900LX which have the legs for BZN-ASI. Although they are going to be flown by civvie crews probably for reasons of some sibylline legal arcana.

    The first French built aircraft in British military service since the Nieuport Scout by my reckoning.
    There are two dark blue (what I was told were Dassault) that fly over Dartmouth regularly and again, I was told, are full of kit that can simulate an attack on a warship - and which they use at Britannia Naval College for training the cadets.
    Those are the FRA/Cobham Falcon 20s and are civvie registered. The 20 had the same wing as the Mystere and therefore the wired hardpoints for pylons. This made them very useful for carrying pods to simulate threats, etc.

    I was wrong anyway. I forgot about the Boscombe Alphas. Aquired because Hawks were too departure resistant to train test pilots.


    My uncle was a test pilot (jet provost and strikemaster). My dad worked on a farm and his brother would come over, flying ridiculously low to say hello.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,733

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good article on the pathology of dictatorships.

    Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/

    There’s a lot more to democracy than the ability to kick out the guy at the top according to accepted rules, but look at the alternative to see how important that is.

    That's an excellent piece.
    I like it. But one thing that is missing is that nearly all dictators are not absolute - they are not God Kings ordering around cowering pawns. Usually. Instead, they are usually riding a whole "streak"* of tigers. With all the fun that cat herding implies.

    For example, for years I found Napoleon quite hard to understand. His actions didn't match "the Great Man directing Europe like an orchestra" that you find in many works on him. Then I found better historians, who detailed the interactions between Napoleon and the power centres at home.

    Inefficiency through duplication, competition in the wrong places, promoting the incompetent - these are tools of statecraft to the dictator. To keep those below, down.

    Another is belief - the article touches on the idea of the hyper rational dictator playing chess. But what is it for? Not just self-delusion by propaganda - though belief is often that. Stalin believed in Communism, Henry VIII believed he was fulfilling God's Will and advancing the cause of Truth....

    *Apparently the word for a group of tigers...
    Agreed. The two feline herds Putin has been riding are the generals and the kleptocrats. It's easy to see why they would despise each other, given their relative levels of remuneration. But at the end of the day the generals have soldiers at their disposal, the kleptos only have accountants.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    edited March 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I think @Dura_Ace is a little embarrassed by how wrongly he's called the whole conflict, and is throwing out random shit.
    No one else seems remotely embarrassed by how wrongly they’ve called the whole conflict to the point of blithely finding new wrong ways to call it, seems a bit unfair to pick on him.
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 780
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    War is just diplomacy by other means. Talks to often, maybe even usually, take place before the guns fall silent.
    A goose's quill has put an end to murder, which put an end to talk.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    edited March 2022
    On P&O we have had the usual moaning about the weakness of UK labour laws. And this is undoubtedly true when compared to the French, for example. But the result is by far the most dynamic employment market in Europe, far lower structual unemployment and a much higher activity rate than most. So it is pretty tough for those that lose out, particularly where they have got a pretty cosy number going, but it is generally good for us and we should not lose sight of the net benefits.

    In the P&O case the failure to consult about prospective redundancy makes the dismissals unfair. P&O have sought to "compensate" employees for the lack of consultation but that only works if the employees accept it. The suggestion is that they are going to bring in much cheaper crews to man the vessels at much lower rates of pay. This means, unless they are simply closing certain routes, that there is no redundancy at all and the employees, unless bought off, will be entitled to compensation which will include loss of wages until they find alternative employment, subject to a cap. If I was the government I would be looking to throw a spanner in those works by challenging the right of these replacement employees to work in UK waters or ports.

    I also suspect that P&O's problems has a lot more to do with the current cost of fuel than the cost of labour. Difficult to do much about the former, of course.
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,715
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    War is just diplomacy by other means. Talks to often, maybe even usually, take place before the guns fall silent.
    Hannah Arendt would disagree, I can remember writing an essay about that as an undergraduate.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    Scott_xP said:
    Think of those now impoverished by this. Won't you give Salmond the price of a cup of tea?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,129

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good article on the pathology of dictatorships.

    Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/

    There’s a lot more to democracy than the ability to kick out the guy at the top according to accepted rules, but look at the alternative to see how important that is.

    That's an excellent piece.
    I like it. But one thing that is missing is that nearly all dictators are not absolute - they are not God Kings ordering around cowering pawns. Usually. Instead, they are usually riding a whole "streak"* of tigers. With all the fun that cat herding implies.

    For example, for years I found Napoleon quite hard to understand. His actions didn't match "the Great Man directing Europe like an orchestra" that you find in many works on him. Then I found better historians, who detailed the interactions between Napoleon and the power centres at home.

    Inefficiency through duplication, competition in the wrong places, promoting the incompetent - these are tools of statecraft to the dictator. To keep those below, down.

    Another is belief - the article touches on the idea of the hyper rational dictator playing chess. But what is it for? Not just self-delusion by propaganda - though belief is often that. Stalin believed in Communism, Henry VIII believed he was fulfilling God's Will and advancing the cause of Truth....

    *Apparently the word for a group of tigers...
    Often there's a strong element of pure caprice, a country to own and play with as a toy, a people to oppress, bamboozle, stimulate, terrify and steal from, all about the ego, the urges, the bank accounts, the power.

    That's bad enough but it gets worse if there's also some softhead genuine belief in the specialness of whatever country or "people" they think they're leading. Look out for words like "destiny" and "greatness" and the like. Hear them and shudder.

    With Putin we have both aspects in play. He's bad news.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good article on the pathology of dictatorships.

    Vladimir Putin Has Fallen Into the Dictator Trap
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/putin-dictator-trap-russia-ukraine/627064/

    There’s a lot more to democracy than the ability to kick out the guy at the top according to accepted rules, but look at the alternative to see how important that is.

    That's an excellent piece.
    I like it. But one thing that is missing is that nearly all dictators are not absolute - they are not God Kings ordering around cowering pawns. Usually. Instead, they are usually riding a whole "streak"* of tigers. With all the fun that cat herding implies.

    For example, for years I found Napoleon quite hard to understand. His actions didn't match "the Great Man directing Europe like an orchestra" that you find in many works on him. Then I found better historians, who detailed the interactions between Napoleon and the power centres at home.

    Inefficiency through duplication, competition in the wrong places, promoting the incompetent - these are tools of statecraft to the dictator. To keep those below, down.

    Another is belief - the article touches on the idea of the hyper rational dictator playing chess. But what is it for? Not just self-delusion by propaganda - though belief is often that. Stalin believed in Communism, Henry VIII believed he was fulfilling God's Will and advancing the cause of Truth....

    *Apparently the word for a group of tigers...
    Agreed. The two feline herds Putin has been riding are the generals and the kleptocrats. It's easy to see why they would despise each other, given their relative levels of remuneration. But at the end of the day the generals have soldiers at their disposal, the kleptos only have accountants.
    There are more groups than that - for a start you have the whole State Security apparatus, which was specifically separated form the military since before Stalin.

    Then there are the Ideas Guys - "Foundations of Geopolitics...." - I think that people are really underestimating the part played by the search for a new faith after Communism fell. It seems they have found socialism again. Of the National variety, this time....

    The kleptocrats have more than accountants - Putin isn't the only one to have ordered murders.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I think @Dura_Ace is a little embarrassed by how wrongly he's called the whole conflict, and is throwing out random shit.
    No one else seems remotely embarrassed by how wrongly they’ve called the whole conflict to the point of blithely finding new wrong ways to call it, seems a bit unfair to pick on him.
    The RUSI, our professional military think tank, which has about as much Information as anyone, was completely taken by surprise by the course of the war. None of us had any real clue as to how it would turn out. And we still don't.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    War is just diplomacy by other means. Talks to often, maybe even usually, take place before the guns fall silent.
    John Simpson has a peice on BBC website about what the Turkish understand could be basis of a deal, based on talking directly to Putin. Seems do-able if Ukr swallow a lot of bile and accept loss of territory. But how long would the deal last?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242

    kinabalu said:

    Good morning. Bright sunny day and what nowadays constitutes a busy day for me ahead. Two u3a Group meetings, both of which I have to drive to.

    Are the front pages, and the TV News programmes just a teeny bit more positive about the Ukraine situation?

    I'd like to be feeling positive about how Ukraine is going but I'm not really.

    The "talks" feel artificial to me, mainly for show, an addition to the fighting not a potential alternative to it.

    I think there's a lot of war to go yet on this.
    I swing between optimism and pessimism. PB yesterday was line an online meeting of Pessimists Anonymous.

    This morning I'm probably more positive for positive for Ukraine than I have been at any time during this war. The longer it goes on. the harder it gets for Russia as their economy tanks and Ukraine gets more advanced weapons. Russia may still 'win', but I think a Ukraine 'win' is certainly possible.

    Escalation by Putin is an imponderable that I'm finding better for my mental health *not* to ponder...
    I think the talks don't feel real, because they are at the "talking for the sake of talking" stage. Which is important. It gets people used to being round the table.

    The Russian side has moved, apparently, from Death To Ukraine to Swedish Ukraine. For a weird definition of Swedish, true. And not one that Zelensky will, or can, accept.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131

    Scott_xP said:
    Think of those now impoverished by this. Won't you give Salmond the price of a cup of tea?
    He has numerous pensions to get by on. Give the money to Ukraine instead.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,242
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    IshmaelZ said:


    NPXMP has suggested in the last couple of days that Ukraine is favoured by the West purely because it has a superior media operation to Russia,?

    I don't think NP ever said it but it is undoubtedly at least partially true. Of course people are going to row in behind the faction with the more fierce meme game. That's the power of social media. #tractors #lol

    Good/evil and right/wrong are pre-2010 dichotomies that no longer apply.
    Read the accounts coming out of Mariupol.
    It’s not a fucking meme game; it’s a medieval siege with shells and bombs.
    I think @Dura_Ace is a little embarrassed by how wrongly he's called the whole conflict, and is throwing out random shit.
    No one else seems remotely embarrassed by how wrongly they’ve called the whole conflict to the point of blithely finding new wrong ways to call it, seems a bit unfair to pick on him.
    The RUSI, our professional military think tank, which has about as much Information as anyone, was completely taken by surprise by the course of the war. None of us had any real clue as to how it would turn out. And we still don't.
    Yes - I can't think of anyone who predicted that if Russia went Full Tonto, they would end up bogged down, rather than sweeping to victory.

    Or was that what the Defense Sec. was saying when he joked about the Crimean War?
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