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Johnson being CON leader at next election – a good bet? – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Would being in the EU have made any difference though? Happy to be shown I’m wrong about that.
    I took Foxy to mean trade union…
    Correct.
    Well yebbut "global buccaneering Britain" is an implied ref to EU membership, no?
    No, it is the style of Brexit. There are others, that actually do protect the workers and farmers rather than shaft them for a quick buck.
    Would being in the EU have made a difference?
    I believe there would have been a compulsory consultation period. More important though is a government that believes protection of workers is not just red tape.
    I think there still is, hence the ‘offer’ is 13 weeks pay in lieu of this.
    I hate what they are doing, but I don’t see evidence that the ability to do it is linked to Brexit. Happy to be shown I’m wrong, genuinely.
    I don't think it's Brexit. It's capitalism working as designed - the employers are optimising by finding non-union staff from poorer countries willing to work for less.

    As soon as globalisation took hold, I predicted that this sort of thing would become routine, though as MaxPB says it's more usually by a business reopening somewhere poorer (cf. the manufacturing industry and China). In a very crude way, it redistributes money from poorer people in rich countries to (a) employers and (b) poorer people in poorer countries.

    My view, of course, is that the process needs to be balanced by intervenionist governments, who tax the employers on local turnover (none of this "Haha, we're based in the Virgin Islands" stuff), require lengthy notice, subsidise retraining, and support low-paid workers and the unemployed. Globalisation shouldn't be stopped, but it should be constrained by minimum conditions, with tax havens subject to sanctions. The process shouldn't be stopped, but it should be made slow and expensive, so that people affected can be helped, with obstacles imposed on companies that try to circumvent the rules.

    Will the Conservatives do more than say "Tsk!" and move on? Of course not. They see the system working as they expect, and are just a bit embarrassed that it's so obvious in this case.
    The conservative mp who chairs the transport select committee seemed pretty hacked off and in full agreement the labour mp who was featured before him.
    It sounds pretty shocking at the moment, so hopefully a lot can be done.
    The only shocking aspect I can see is that the workers seem not to have gone through any form of consultation, and the manner of communication was crass.

    Otherwise, it’s pretty standard stuff, isn’t it?
    Yes it seems there is a time limited offer which includes 13 weeks pay in lieu of consultation. One wonders why the company have chosen this route? Hoping for a faint accompli? I hope they get stuffed by the lawyers.
    If I am reading the letter Hebblethwaite sent out correctly, then all the staff who have been fired are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).

    I think they were probably hoping by taking this course they would get it over and done with quickly while everyone was distracted by Ukraine. In this I suspect they have made an error, particularly in having security guards with covered faces go aboard to use violence and physical restraint to enforce it. This could easily run and run should anyone bring charges of assault.

    On a more pertinent point, at a time when there is spare capacity they have just guaranteed lots of negative headlines and unhappy passengers which will not do their bookings any good.

    Conclusion - they're very arrogant, extremely nasty and fucking stupid.

    That one on the Zoom call just looked incredibly creepy. Like that weirdo with the Nazi tattoos Putin sent into Ukraine.

    Scott_xP said:

    In recent weeks, I've often talked with @bbclysedoucet early evening in Kyiv. And I've wanted to know about the beautiful dome that's always behind her. Just now I asked and Lyse's answer captured how this war competes with the rhythm of life as it was. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1504547815850139656/video/1

    She is a credit to journalism and an example to many colleagues on how to do it
    Lyse is part Mi'kmaq
    Just looked her up on Wiki. Bloody hell, she knows what she's doing.
    Here's more.
    https://www.queensu.ca/gazette/alumnireview/stories/accent-news#:~:text=Her accent may be difficult,shipmate of Samuel de Champlain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Although Corbyn hanging out with a lot of demented anti-semites hasn't damaged him (at least, not in your eyes) so why should Johnson be compromised by photographs of him with girls?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Would being in the EU have made any difference though? Happy to be shown I’m wrong about that.
    I took Foxy to mean trade union…
    Correct.
    Well yebbut "global buccaneering Britain" is an implied ref to EU membership, no?
    No, it is the style of Brexit. There are others, that actually do protect the workers and farmers rather than shaft them for a quick buck.
    Would being in the EU have made a difference?
    I believe there would have been a compulsory consultation period. More important though is a government that believes protection of workers is not just red tape.
    I think there still is, hence the ‘offer’ is 13 weeks pay in lieu of this.
    I hate what they are doing, but I don’t see evidence that the ability to do it is linked to Brexit. Happy to be shown I’m wrong, genuinely.
    I don't think it's Brexit. It's capitalism working as designed - the employers are optimising by finding non-union staff from poorer countries willing to work for less.

    As soon as globalisation took hold, I predicted that this sort of thing would become routine, though as MaxPB says it's more usually by a business reopening somewhere poorer (cf. the manufacturing industry and China). In a very crude way, it redistributes money from poorer people in rich countries to (a) employers and (b) poorer people in poorer countries.

    My view, of course, is that the process needs to be balanced by intervenionist governments, who tax the employers on local turnover (none of this "Haha, we're based in the Virgin Islands" stuff), require lengthy notice, subsidise retraining, and support low-paid workers and the unemployed. Globalisation shouldn't be stopped, but it should be constrained by minimum conditions, with tax havens subject to sanctions. The process shouldn't be stopped, but it should be made slow and expensive, so that people affected can be helped, with obstacles imposed on companies that try to circumvent the rules.

    Will the Conservatives do more than say "Tsk!" and move on? Of course not. They see the system working as they expect, and are just a bit embarrassed that it's so obvious in this case.
    The conservative mp who chairs the transport select committee seemed pretty hacked off and in full agreement the labour mp who was featured before him.
    It sounds pretty shocking at the moment, so hopefully a lot can be done.
    The only shocking aspect I can see is that the workers seem not to have gone through any form of consultation, and the manner of communication was crass.

    Otherwise, it’s pretty standard stuff, isn’t it?
    Yes it seems there is a time limited offer which includes 13 weeks pay in lieu of consultation. One wonders why the company have chosen this route? Hoping for a faint accompli? I hope they get stuffed by the lawyers.
    If I am reading the letter Hebblethwaite sent out correctly, then all the staff who have been fired are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).

    I think they were probably hoping by taking this course they would get it over and done with quickly while everyone was distracted by Ukraine. In this I suspect they have made an error, particularly in having security guards with covered faces go aboard to use violence and physical restraint to enforce it. This could easily run and run should anyone bring charges of assault.

    On a more pertinent point, at a time when there is spare capacity they have just guaranteed lots of negative headlines and unhappy passengers which will not do their bookings any good.

    Conclusion - they're very arrogant, extremely nasty and fucking stupid.

    That one on the Zoom call just looked incredibly creepy. Like that weirdo with the Nazi tattoos Putin sent into Ukraine.
    What territory is a P&O ferry? If it's somewhere like Jersey the law could for all I know be more primitive than the UK mainland (or it might be better: doesn't help that I have just been reading the latest Charles Stross novel, which in part hinges on just this kind of legal distinction between the UK/EU and the CIs).
    I don't know, and from the little I do know about maritime law it's so Byzantine I doubt if anyone else does either.

    However, the Hebblethwaite letter is quoted in full here:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/po-chiefs-letter-over-mass-26495822

    This is the passage that seems to me to be key:

    As of this morning, we are severing the contracts of all 800 Jersey-contracted seafaring colleagues with immediate effect and will be compensating them for lack of notice with enhanced severance packages.

    Now I could be wrong and 'Jersey' could be the name of a subsidiary company. But if a UK company sacks its workers without notice under UK laws for any reason other than imminent bankruptcy ('imminent' meaning 'before the end of the month') it's acting illegally. And if that were the case, the RMT would surely be seeking an injunction against the company for illegal dismissal. The fact they haven't says quite a lot in itself.

    Therefore I am assuming that in some technical way P+O Ferries and their staff are not under UK law, and this seems the logical explanation.

    If so that raises a much more serious question - how can a company based on UK soil, employing UK nationals, carrying out its operations in the UK, find such a loophole? And should that loophole not be closed? Or was it already closed, in which case P+O ferries may have burned their figures?

    But those are arguments for lawyers to ponder later. Right now, it's not a lot of help to those people who have been booted out of work.
    Quite.

    On further poking around it seems as if the ships themselves are flagged outwith UK - Bermuda and Cyprus ansd Bahamas and Netherlands for instance. How it is possible to pick and choose between these, UK (mainland) and Jersey laws for employment I have no idea.

    But despite what has been indignantly stated by the PBBrexiters it may well be that Brexit has after all played a role in setting the scene, rather to my surprise.


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/po-ferries-re-flag-ships-13892057
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/government-seeks-answers-on-irish-routes-as-p-o-ferries-suspends-services-1.4829598
    https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/po-what-new-announcement-mean-6818261
    If that is the case that Brexit has played a role then that’s bad. I wa# genuinely trying to get an explanation of how.
    Quite so.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    The thing about the P&O stuff, forgetting about the legalities of it all etc. is: you can tell from how these things are actually done whether the company knows itself whether it's being a bastard or not.

    A 3 minute recorded message is the approach of a company that knows it's being a bastard, a company that knows that it's made a decision to fuck everyone over and then get the hell out of Dodge to not be there when the shit hits the fan.

    If it's the right thing to do to save the company, get the fucking board to do a proper live meeting and take the shitty questions they're going to get from every Tom Dick and Harry whose lives they're fucking over that day.

    Peep Show has it covered...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9FGxAt1cKw
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Most likely Johnson will now lead the Tories again at the next general election. Not only has he cut the Labour poll lead but Sunak does little better against Starmer than he does anyway

    Putin cut the Labour poll lead, not Johnson.
    Where is he in the odds for next Tory leader?

    Bit of a moderate for some.
    He hasn't even nuked anywhere to avoid losing a War yet.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Still not sure there’s a direct connection. But there is this:

    In February 2019, P&O Ferries announced that its UK fleet would be reflagged from Dover to Cyprus in response to the UK's exit from the European Union that year for "operational and accounting reasons".

    AIUI one of the largest, numerically if not by GRT, elements of the once glorious British Merchant Navy is the Orkney Islands Council. They do have a lot of islands, and a lot of ferries, but even so ...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    It is not necessary to explain anything.

    The Evening Standard was an unfailing political supporter of Boris, and Lebedev managed to secure a peerage out of it.

    It’s very smelly, but it is a story of Boris’s petty corruption and woeful inability to prioritise matters of state, rather than anything else.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    tlg86 said:

    The thing about the P&O stuff, forgetting about the legalities of it all etc. is: you can tell from how these things are actually done whether the company knows itself whether it's being a bastard or not.

    A 3 minute recorded message is the approach of a company that knows it's being a bastard, a company that knows that it's made a decision to fuck everyone over and then get the hell out of Dodge to not be there when the shit hits the fan.

    If it's the right thing to do to save the company, get the fucking board to do a proper live meeting and take the shitty questions they're going to get from every Tom Dick and Harry whose lives they're fucking over that day.

    Peep Show has it covered...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9FGxAt1cKw
    Peep Show covers everything.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Another point re P+O.
    Would 13 week's pay leave many of them unable to claim Universal Credit?
  • IanB2 said:

    P&O Cruises - apparently nothing to do with P&O Ferries - must be having a mare.

    I think they are part of Carnival cruises but I could be wrong
    Yes, Carnival bought them way back and runs them as it’s mid-market brand aimed at retired Brits.
    We sailed to the Baltic and St Petersburg some years ago with P & O

    Strange to think that would not happen at this time
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    slade said:

    Aslan said:

    I actually really like getting my passport stamped when going on a multicountry trip. Makes my passport look a lot more colorful and interesting.

    I used to love it when the official tried so hard to find an undefiled page.
    The Scandinavians line theirs up neatly so you can get 4 or 6 stamps to a page.

    The French defiantly put theirs in the middle of a page occupying all the real estate in a really unhelpful manner
    Sounds more of a Russian approach. The page is all Russian and always was.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,453
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ..

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Would being in the EU have made any difference though? Happy to be shown I’m wrong about that.
    I took Foxy to mean trade union…
    Correct.
    Well yebbut "global buccaneering Britain" is an implied ref to EU membership, no?
    No, it is the style of Brexit. There are others, that actually do protect the workers and farmers rather than shaft them for a quick buck.
    Would being in the EU have made a difference?
    I believe there would have been a compulsory consultation period. More important though is a government that believes protection of workers is not just red tape.
    I think there still is, hence the ‘offer’ is 13 weeks pay in lieu of this.
    I hate what they are doing, but I don’t see evidence that the ability to do it is linked to Brexit. Happy to be shown I’m wrong, genuinely.
    I don't think it's Brexit. It's capitalism working as designed - the employers are optimising by finding non-union staff from poorer countries willing to work for less.

    As soon as globalisation took hold, I predicted that this sort of thing would become routine, though as MaxPB says it's more usually by a business reopening somewhere poorer (cf. the manufacturing industry and China). In a very crude way, it redistributes money from poorer people in rich countries to (a) employers and (b) poorer people in poorer countries.

    My view, of course, is that the process needs to be balanced by intervenionist governments, who tax the employers on local turnover (none of this "Haha, we're based in the Virgin Islands" stuff), require lengthy notice, subsidise retraining, and support low-paid workers and the unemployed. Globalisation shouldn't be stopped, but it should be constrained by minimum conditions, with tax havens subject to sanctions. The process shouldn't be stopped, but it should be made slow and expensive, so that people affected can be helped, with obstacles imposed on companies that try to circumvent the rules.

    Will the Conservatives do more than say "Tsk!" and move on? Of course not. They see the system working as they expect, and are just a bit embarrassed that it's so obvious in this case.
    The conservative mp who chairs the transport select committee seemed pretty hacked off and in full agreement the labour mp who was featured before him.
    It sounds pretty shocking at the moment, so hopefully a lot can be done.
    The only shocking aspect I can see is that the workers seem not to have gone through any form of consultation, and the manner of communication was crass.

    Otherwise, it’s pretty standard stuff, isn’t it?
    Yes it seems there is a time limited offer which includes 13 weeks pay in lieu of consultation. One wonders why the company have chosen this route? Hoping for a faint accompli? I hope they get stuffed by the lawyers.
    If I am reading the letter Hebblethwaite sent out correctly, then all the staff who have been fired are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).

    I think they were probably hoping by taking this course they would get it over and done with quickly while everyone was distracted by Ukraine. In this I suspect they have made an error, particularly in having security guards with covered faces go aboard to use violence and physical restraint to enforce it. This could easily run and run should anyone bring charges of assault.

    On a more pertinent point, at a time when there is spare capacity they have just guaranteed lots of negative headlines and unhappy passengers which will not do their bookings any good.

    Conclusion - they're very arrogant, extremely nasty and fucking stupid.

    That one on the Zoom call just looked incredibly creepy. Like that weirdo with the Nazi tattoos Putin sent into Ukraine.
    “are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).”

    Ill informed bollocks but carry on. It’s basically cut and paste from UK law.

    Teachers should understand the benefits of researching what they tell people.
    I did say 'if.'

    But I'm intrigued you think that's copied and pasted from UK employment law. I deal with it very regularly and I've not come across that bit. Where is it?
    My point was your attempt to suggest that Jersey employment law was less rigorous than uK employment law in order to pass the buck. Jersey employment law is basically a cut and paste job and so any loopholes are the same loopholes as would be existent if they were employed by a UK company. But you assumed Jersey being a “tax haven” was a Wild West of dodgy laws - the sad thing is that Jersey politicians have just copied UK laws and ideas for too long.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,528
    edited March 2022

    The former Bulgarian PM has just been arrested on grounds of corruption.

    Can they do Gerhard Schroeder next?

    And then, Boris.

    Normal etiquettes, rules, regulations and Acts of Parliament don't apply to Johnson.

    The UK is Hazzard County and Johnson is Boss Hogg.
    Try saying "Alexander Boris de P Johnson" in the style of "Roscoe P Coltrane"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,493
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    edited March 2022

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
    The problem with Corbyn was you didn't need to make anything up. When it was tried, as in implying he was a Czech spy, people laughed and the writers looked silly. When he was sounding sceptical about Russian involvement in Salisbury, or making common cause with neo-Nazis, or making ridiculous claims about murals - well, you didn't need to exaggerate or makeup. Just report the facts and they were a killer.

    That said, our employment laws are a joke. Even Iran has more rigorous employment laws than we do, which is saying quite something.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,498
    edited March 2022
    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Nearly happened at the Emirates last night.

    Edit - Fucking eco warrior.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,321

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Isn't that a spoof account? Should OGH's lawyers be on speed-dial?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754
    ydoethur said:

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
    The problem with Corbyn was you didn't need to make anything up. When it was tried, as in implying he was a Czech spy, people laughed and the writers looked silly. When he was sounding sceptical about Russian involvement in Salisbury, or making common cause with neo-Nazis, or making ridiculous claims about murals - well, you didn't need to exaggerate or makeup. Just report the facts and they were a killer.

    That said, our employment laws are a joke. Even Iran has more rigorous employment laws than we do, which is saying quite something.
    IMHO Corbyn isn't an anti semite but he is undoubtedly a fucking idiot.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    "Wilson was brought up as a Baptist, at university joined the evangelical Oxford Group, and in 1963 declared: "I have religious beliefs and they very much affected my political views.""

    Source.https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/feb/09/prime-ministers-religion-god
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ..

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Would being in the EU have made any difference though? Happy to be shown I’m wrong about that.
    I took Foxy to mean trade union…
    Correct.
    Well yebbut "global buccaneering Britain" is an implied ref to EU membership, no?
    No, it is the style of Brexit. There are others, that actually do protect the workers and farmers rather than shaft them for a quick buck.
    Would being in the EU have made a difference?
    I believe there would have been a compulsory consultation period. More important though is a government that believes protection of workers is not just red tape.
    I think there still is, hence the ‘offer’ is 13 weeks pay in lieu of this.
    I hate what they are doing, but I don’t see evidence that the ability to do it is linked to Brexit. Happy to be shown I’m wrong, genuinely.
    I don't think it's Brexit. It's capitalism working as designed - the employers are optimising by finding non-union staff from poorer countries willing to work for less.

    As soon as globalisation took hold, I predicted that this sort of thing would become routine, though as MaxPB says it's more usually by a business reopening somewhere poorer (cf. the manufacturing industry and China). In a very crude way, it redistributes money from poorer people in rich countries to (a) employers and (b) poorer people in poorer countries.

    My view, of course, is that the process needs to be balanced by intervenionist governments, who tax the employers on local turnover (none of this "Haha, we're based in the Virgin Islands" stuff), require lengthy notice, subsidise retraining, and support low-paid workers and the unemployed. Globalisation shouldn't be stopped, but it should be constrained by minimum conditions, with tax havens subject to sanctions. The process shouldn't be stopped, but it should be made slow and expensive, so that people affected can be helped, with obstacles imposed on companies that try to circumvent the rules.

    Will the Conservatives do more than say "Tsk!" and move on? Of course not. They see the system working as they expect, and are just a bit embarrassed that it's so obvious in this case.
    The conservative mp who chairs the transport select committee seemed pretty hacked off and in full agreement the labour mp who was featured before him.
    It sounds pretty shocking at the moment, so hopefully a lot can be done.
    The only shocking aspect I can see is that the workers seem not to have gone through any form of consultation, and the manner of communication was crass.

    Otherwise, it’s pretty standard stuff, isn’t it?
    Yes it seems there is a time limited offer which includes 13 weeks pay in lieu of consultation. One wonders why the company have chosen this route? Hoping for a faint accompli? I hope they get stuffed by the lawyers.
    If I am reading the letter Hebblethwaite sent out correctly, then all the staff who have been fired are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).

    I think they were probably hoping by taking this course they would get it over and done with quickly while everyone was distracted by Ukraine. In this I suspect they have made an error, particularly in having security guards with covered faces go aboard to use violence and physical restraint to enforce it. This could easily run and run should anyone bring charges of assault.

    On a more pertinent point, at a time when there is spare capacity they have just guaranteed lots of negative headlines and unhappy passengers which will not do their bookings any good.

    Conclusion - they're very arrogant, extremely nasty and fucking stupid.

    That one on the Zoom call just looked incredibly creepy. Like that weirdo with the Nazi tattoos Putin sent into Ukraine.
    “are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).”

    Ill informed bollocks but carry on. It’s basically cut and paste from UK law.

    Teachers should understand the benefits of researching what they tell people.
    I did say 'if.'

    But I'm intrigued you think that's copied and pasted from UK employment law. I deal with it very regularly and I've not come across that bit. Where is it?
    My point was your attempt to suggest that Jersey employment law was less rigorous than uK employment law in order to pass the buck. Jersey employment law is basically a cut and paste job and so any loopholes are the same loopholes as would be existent if they were employed by a UK company. But you assumed Jersey being a “tax haven” was a Wild West of dodgy laws - the sad thing is that Jersey politicians have just copied UK laws and ideas for too long.
    I see, thank you. I have (now) looked at the Jersey employment laws and as you say they do mirror UK ones, which does surprise me because yes, Jersey has always given the distinct impression that laws are what big business find expedient at any given moment less rigorous than on the mainland.

    But that then begs the question - how would this be lawful? No consultation. No notification. No consideration of alternatives. Violence used to enforce it.

    P+O Ferries may just have made the cockup of their lives.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    tlg86 said:

    The thing about the P&O stuff, forgetting about the legalities of it all etc. is: you can tell from how these things are actually done whether the company knows itself whether it's being a bastard or not.

    A 3 minute recorded message is the approach of a company that knows it's being a bastard, a company that knows that it's made a decision to fuck everyone over and then get the hell out of Dodge to not be there when the shit hits the fan.

    If it's the right thing to do to save the company, get the fucking board to do a proper live meeting and take the shitty questions they're going to get from every Tom Dick and Harry whose lives they're fucking over that day.

    Peep Show has it covered...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9FGxAt1cKw
    Peep Show always has it covered. It's good like that!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    edited March 2022

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326

    ydoethur said:

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
    The problem with Corbyn was you didn't need to make anything up. When it was tried, as in implying he was a Czech spy, people laughed and the writers looked silly. When he was sounding sceptical about Russian involvement in Salisbury, or making common cause with neo-Nazis, or making ridiculous claims about murals - well, you didn't need to exaggerate or makeup. Just report the facts and they were a killer.

    That said, our employment laws are a joke. Even Iran has more rigorous employment laws than we do, which is saying quite something.
    IMHO Corbyn isn't an anti semite but he is undoubtedly a fucking idiot.
    He might not be an anti Semite but he certainly has no problem associating with those who are.
    Just as @cyclefree wants all men to call out mysogeny when they see it, and not passively tolerate bad behaviour, all people wanted from the labour leader was not to keep turning a blind eye to anti semites, and not going and laying wreaths at the tombs of anti Semitic terrorists. Not too much to ask?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325
    Happy st Patrick’s day


    https://youtu.be/lEjEGbAFzJU
  • dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Isn't that a spoof account? Should OGH's lawyers be on speed-dial?
    It’s defamation masked as ‘satire’
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    edited March 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Another point re P+O.
    Would 13 week's pay leave many of them unable to claim Universal Credit?

    I think a statutory redundancy payment counts as capital, rather than income so, no, unless the redundancy amount takes the individual's total savings over £6,000. Savings above £6,000 will start to taper down UC payments; total savings above £16,000 = no UC payments.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,453
    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ..

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Would being in the EU have made any difference though? Happy to be shown I’m wrong about that.
    I took Foxy to mean trade union…
    Correct.
    Well yebbut "global buccaneering Britain" is an implied ref to EU membership, no?
    No, it is the style of Brexit. There are others, that actually do protect the workers and farmers rather than shaft them for a quick buck.
    Would being in the EU have made a difference?
    I believe there would have been a compulsory consultation period. More important though is a government that believes protection of workers is not just red tape.
    I think there still is, hence the ‘offer’ is 13 weeks pay in lieu of this.
    I hate what they are doing, but I don’t see evidence that the ability to do it is linked to Brexit. Happy to be shown I’m wrong, genuinely.
    I don't think it's Brexit. It's capitalism working as designed - the employers are optimising by finding non-union staff from poorer countries willing to work for less.

    As soon as globalisation took hold, I predicted that this sort of thing would become routine, though as MaxPB says it's more usually by a business reopening somewhere poorer (cf. the manufacturing industry and China). In a very crude way, it redistributes money from poorer people in rich countries to (a) employers and (b) poorer people in poorer countries.

    My view, of course, is that the process needs to be balanced by intervenionist governments, who tax the employers on local turnover (none of this "Haha, we're based in the Virgin Islands" stuff), require lengthy notice, subsidise retraining, and support low-paid workers and the unemployed. Globalisation shouldn't be stopped, but it should be constrained by minimum conditions, with tax havens subject to sanctions. The process shouldn't be stopped, but it should be made slow and expensive, so that people affected can be helped, with obstacles imposed on companies that try to circumvent the rules.

    Will the Conservatives do more than say "Tsk!" and move on? Of course not. They see the system working as they expect, and are just a bit embarrassed that it's so obvious in this case.
    The conservative mp who chairs the transport select committee seemed pretty hacked off and in full agreement the labour mp who was featured before him.
    It sounds pretty shocking at the moment, so hopefully a lot can be done.
    The only shocking aspect I can see is that the workers seem not to have gone through any form of consultation, and the manner of communication was crass.

    Otherwise, it’s pretty standard stuff, isn’t it?
    Yes it seems there is a time limited offer which includes 13 weeks pay in lieu of consultation. One wonders why the company have chosen this route? Hoping for a faint accompli? I hope they get stuffed by the lawyers.
    If I am reading the letter Hebblethwaite sent out correctly, then all the staff who have been fired are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).

    I think they were probably hoping by taking this course they would get it over and done with quickly while everyone was distracted by Ukraine. In this I suspect they have made an error, particularly in having security guards with covered faces go aboard to use violence and physical restraint to enforce it. This could easily run and run should anyone bring charges of assault.

    On a more pertinent point, at a time when there is spare capacity they have just guaranteed lots of negative headlines and unhappy passengers which will not do their bookings any good.

    Conclusion - they're very arrogant, extremely nasty and fucking stupid.

    That one on the Zoom call just looked incredibly creepy. Like that weirdo with the Nazi tattoos Putin sent into Ukraine.
    “are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).”

    Ill informed bollocks but carry on. It’s basically cut and paste from UK law.

    Teachers should understand the benefits of researching what they tell people.
    I did say 'if.'

    But I'm intrigued you think that's copied and pasted from UK employment law. I deal with it very regularly and I've not come across that bit. Where is it?
    My point was your attempt to suggest that Jersey employment law was less rigorous than uK employment law in order to pass the buck. Jersey employment law is basically a cut and paste job and so any loopholes are the same loopholes as would be existent if they were employed by a UK company. But you assumed Jersey being a “tax haven” was a Wild West of dodgy laws - the sad thing is that Jersey politicians have just copied UK laws and ideas for too long.
    I see, thank you. I have (now) looked at the Jersey employment laws and as you say they do mirror UK ones, which does surprise me because yes, Jersey has always given the distinct impression that laws are what big business find expedient at any given moment less rigorous than on the mainland.

    But that then begs the question - how would this be lawful? No consultation. No notification. No consideration of alternatives. Violence used to enforce it.

    P+O Ferries may just have made the cockup of their lives.
    I have no idea how there is a Jersey link to P&O employment contracts as that would be very stupid of P&O.

    The actions are happening in the UK and so the UK should be ensuring this isn’t happening in their territory.

    Unfortunately people assume Jersey and other Crown dependencies are a Wild West - the irony is that it’s a million times harder to open a bank account in these places than the UK or to set up a company etc than the UK but a very easy target by the uninformed.



  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,321

    ydoethur said:

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
    The problem with Corbyn was you didn't need to make anything up. When it was tried, as in implying he was a Czech spy, people laughed and the writers looked silly. When he was sounding sceptical about Russian involvement in Salisbury, or making common cause with neo-Nazis, or making ridiculous claims about murals - well, you didn't need to exaggerate or makeup. Just report the facts and they were a killer.

    That said, our employment laws are a joke. Even Iran has more rigorous employment laws than we do, which is saying quite something.
    IMHO Corbyn isn't an anti semite but he is undoubtedly a fucking idiot.
    He might not be an anti Semite but he certainly has no problem associating with those who are.
    Just as @cyclefree wants all men to call out mysogeny when they see it, and not passively tolerate bad behaviour, all people wanted from the labour leader was not to keep turning a blind eye to anti semites, and not going and laying wreaths at the tombs of anti Semitic terrorists. Not too much to ask?
    Corbyn can be measured by the company he keeps.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,651
    Are P&O liable for missed connections, hotels etc. Seems like a deliberate choice to stop sailing.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    ydoethur said:

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
    The problem with Corbyn was you didn't need to make anything up. When it was tried, as in implying he was a Czech spy, people laughed and the writers looked silly. When he was sounding sceptical about Russian involvement in Salisbury, or making common cause with neo-Nazis, or making ridiculous claims about murals - well, you didn't need to exaggerate or makeup. Just report the facts and they were a killer.

    That said, our employment laws are a joke. Even Iran has more rigorous employment laws than we do, which is saying quite something.
    IMHO Corbyn isn't an anti semite but he is undoubtedly a fucking idiot.
    My personal impression, which may be even less accurate than my understanding of Jersey's employment laws, is that he *is* an anti-Semite but on an intellectual rather than an emotional level.

    That is, he conflates them in his mind with things he dislikes - Israel, money, the media - and assumes 'Jews' are a bad thing. Which might explain why he says and does so many things that could be anti-Semitic and yet seems to have no personal problem with individuals who are Jewish (well, not for that reason).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,955
    Voix du Nord local newspaper, which covers Calais, says French staff not being laid off and quoting P&O chief saying sackings aimed at reducing staff costs by 50%.
    https://www.lavoixdunord.fr/1153834/article/2022-03-17/transmanche-po-ferries-arrete-le-trafic-dans-l-attente-d-une-annonce-sur-son
  • Are the stories of P&OF being 40% owned by an oligarch true?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,754

    ydoethur said:

    How do you ever get a decent standard of living for most people if you allow companies to wreck people's careers and livelihoods to drive down wages?

    The whole system's a fucking sham, and the only "leader" the Left could find to speak a word against it was a useless idiot who indulged anti-Semitism.

    Tear the whole thing down. It's just not good enough.

    Many on the left would say that because Corbyn spoke up against this kind of shit the establishment tore him down with a load of exagerated/made up claims. The truth I suspect lies somewhere in between, precisely where who knows.
    The problem with Corbyn was you didn't need to make anything up. When it was tried, as in implying he was a Czech spy, people laughed and the writers looked silly. When he was sounding sceptical about Russian involvement in Salisbury, or making common cause with neo-Nazis, or making ridiculous claims about murals - well, you didn't need to exaggerate or makeup. Just report the facts and they were a killer.

    That said, our employment laws are a joke. Even Iran has more rigorous employment laws than we do, which is saying quite something.
    IMHO Corbyn isn't an anti semite but he is undoubtedly a fucking idiot.
    He might not be an anti Semite but he certainly has no problem associating with those who are.
    Just as @cyclefree wants all men to call out mysogeny when they see it, and not passively tolerate bad behaviour, all people wanted from the labour leader was not to keep turning a blind eye to anti semites, and not going and laying wreaths at the tombs of anti Semitic terrorists. Not too much to ask?
    Like I said, he is an idiot. And a disaster for Labour. I still curse the people who elected him leader.
    A Jewish woman passionately defended him to me once, and told me in no uncertain terms that the anti semitism claims against him were a fabrication. Personally I think there is evidence of criminal stupidity in this area from him, and the mural incident in particular is damning, but if she cleared him of anti semitism then I'm not minded to convict.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386

    dixiedean said:

    Another point re P+O.
    Would 13 week's pay leave many of them unable to claim Universal Credit?

    I think a statutory redundancy payment counts as capital, rather than income so, no, unless the redundancy amount takes the individual's total savings over £6,000. Savings above £6,000 will start to taper down UC payments; total savings above £16,000 = no UC payments.
    That's what I meant. I don't know what they are paid, but a quarter of a year will take many above the taper down figure with very little other savings.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    ..

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Would being in the EU have made any difference though? Happy to be shown I’m wrong about that.
    I took Foxy to mean trade union…
    Correct.
    Well yebbut "global buccaneering Britain" is an implied ref to EU membership, no?
    No, it is the style of Brexit. There are others, that actually do protect the workers and farmers rather than shaft them for a quick buck.
    Would being in the EU have made a difference?
    I believe there would have been a compulsory consultation period. More important though is a government that believes protection of workers is not just red tape.
    I think there still is, hence the ‘offer’ is 13 weeks pay in lieu of this.
    I hate what they are doing, but I don’t see evidence that the ability to do it is linked to Brexit. Happy to be shown I’m wrong, genuinely.
    I don't think it's Brexit. It's capitalism working as designed - the employers are optimising by finding non-union staff from poorer countries willing to work for less.

    As soon as globalisation took hold, I predicted that this sort of thing would become routine, though as MaxPB says it's more usually by a business reopening somewhere poorer (cf. the manufacturing industry and China). In a very crude way, it redistributes money from poorer people in rich countries to (a) employers and (b) poorer people in poorer countries.

    My view, of course, is that the process needs to be balanced by intervenionist governments, who tax the employers on local turnover (none of this "Haha, we're based in the Virgin Islands" stuff), require lengthy notice, subsidise retraining, and support low-paid workers and the unemployed. Globalisation shouldn't be stopped, but it should be constrained by minimum conditions, with tax havens subject to sanctions. The process shouldn't be stopped, but it should be made slow and expensive, so that people affected can be helped, with obstacles imposed on companies that try to circumvent the rules.

    Will the Conservatives do more than say "Tsk!" and move on? Of course not. They see the system working as they expect, and are just a bit embarrassed that it's so obvious in this case.
    The conservative mp who chairs the transport select committee seemed pretty hacked off and in full agreement the labour mp who was featured before him.
    It sounds pretty shocking at the moment, so hopefully a lot can be done.
    The only shocking aspect I can see is that the workers seem not to have gone through any form of consultation, and the manner of communication was crass.

    Otherwise, it’s pretty standard stuff, isn’t it?
    Yes it seems there is a time limited offer which includes 13 weeks pay in lieu of consultation. One wonders why the company have chosen this route? Hoping for a faint accompli? I hope they get stuffed by the lawyers.
    If I am reading the letter Hebblethwaite sent out correctly, then all the staff who have been fired are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).

    I think they were probably hoping by taking this course they would get it over and done with quickly while everyone was distracted by Ukraine. In this I suspect they have made an error, particularly in having security guards with covered faces go aboard to use violence and physical restraint to enforce it. This could easily run and run should anyone bring charges of assault.

    On a more pertinent point, at a time when there is spare capacity they have just guaranteed lots of negative headlines and unhappy passengers which will not do their bookings any good.

    Conclusion - they're very arrogant, extremely nasty and fucking stupid.

    That one on the Zoom call just looked incredibly creepy. Like that weirdo with the Nazi tattoos Putin sent into Ukraine.
    “are contracted under the laws of Jersey. Which is presumably less rigorous than UK law (which is hardly rigorous on employee rights).”

    Ill informed bollocks but carry on. It’s basically cut and paste from UK law.

    Teachers should understand the benefits of researching what they tell people.
    I did say 'if.'

    But I'm intrigued you think that's copied and pasted from UK employment law. I deal with it very regularly and I've not come across that bit. Where is it?
    My point was your attempt to suggest that Jersey employment law was less rigorous than uK employment law in order to pass the buck. Jersey employment law is basically a cut and paste job and so any loopholes are the same loopholes as would be existent if they were employed by a UK company. But you assumed Jersey being a “tax haven” was a Wild West of dodgy laws - the sad thing is that Jersey politicians have just copied UK laws and ideas for too long.
    I see, thank you. I have (now) looked at the Jersey employment laws and as you say they do mirror UK ones, which does surprise me because yes, Jersey has always given the distinct impression that laws are what big business find expedient at any given moment less rigorous than on the mainland.

    But that then begs the question - how would this be lawful? No consultation. No notification. No consideration of alternatives. Violence used to enforce it.

    P+O Ferries may just have made the cockup of their lives.
    I have no idea how there is a Jersey link to P&O employment contracts as that would be very stupid of P&O.

    The actions are happening in the UK and so the UK should be ensuring this isn’t happening in their territory.

    Unfortunately people assume Jersey and other Crown dependencies are a Wild West - the irony is that it’s a million times harder to open a bank account in these places than the UK or to set up a company etc than the UK but a very easy target by the uninformed.
    Well, let's be fair here, P+O haven't exactly given the impression of being led by the finest intellects.

    But somehow, they seem to have circumvented UK employment law. How, we don't yet know.

    The truly ironic part would be if they thought they'd done it via the Channel Isles and got clobbered in a court there instead...
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 309

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    You'd think if you were going to try pulling this stunt you'd get a chunky chap to do it instead of Mr Beanpole
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,651
    ydoethur said:

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Although Corbyn hanging out with a lot of demented anti-semites hasn't damaged him (at least, not in your eyes) so why should Johnson be compromised by photographs of him with girls?
    Its a parody account and its called satire.

    Before today you would have been happy to call Laura Murray a demented anti semite presumably.

    I believe Seamus Milne has a case against the Mail coming up soon too if you want to chance your arm
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    I see he chained himself to Begovic's goal.
    If it'd been Dubravka's nobody would have noticed.
    Always thinking.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,453
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764

    Are the stories of P&OF being 40% owned by an oligarch true?

    P & O = Putin & Oligarchs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
    Irony of the cable tie being made from oil not lost...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
    Hot air, from his fellow travellers, probably.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    ydoethur said:

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Although Corbyn hanging out with a lot of demented anti-semites hasn't damaged him (at least, not in your eyes) so why should Johnson be compromised by photographs of him with girls?
    Its a parody account and its called satire.

    Before today you would have been happy to call Laura Murray a demented anti semite presumably.

    I believe Seamus Milne has a case against the Mail coming up soon too if you want to chance your arm
    Are you really? I thought there must be a reason for some of your wilder postings but I hadn't twigged it was that.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    As far as Roman Catholics are concerned once a Catholic always a Catholic and Boris has put himself back in their camp after his Westminster Cathedral wedding.

    Starmer is an atheist (though with a Jewish wife) and would be the first atheist PM since Callaghan, despite his Baptist background (Foot, Kinnock and Ed Miliband were also atheists but lost the general elections they fought).

    The only current Church of England Anglican party leader is actually Ed Davey for the LDs
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,235

    dixiedean said:

    Another point re P+O.
    Would 13 week's pay leave many of them unable to claim Universal Credit?

    I think a statutory redundancy payment counts as capital, rather than income so, no, unless the redundancy amount takes the individual's total savings over £6,000. Savings above £6,000 will start to taper down UC payments; total savings above £16,000 = no UC payments.
    You can also get (new style) JSA for 6 months if you have enough NICs. No capital (or spousal income) restrictions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    Are the stories of P&OF being 40% owned by an oligarch true?

    P & O = Putin & Oligarchs.
    P+O - Personnel plus Offulness?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    ydoethur said:

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Although Corbyn hanging out with a lot of demented anti-semites hasn't damaged him (at least, not in your eyes) so why should Johnson be compromised by photographs of him with girls?
    Its a parody account and its called satire.

    Before today you would have been happy to call Laura Murray a demented anti semite presumably.

    I believe Seamus Milne has a case against the Mail coming up soon too if you want to chance your arm
    I have no doubt - and I do mean no doubt - that if Adolf hitler had successfully sued someone for libelling him as an anti semite in 1936, you would have been marching along behind him shouting In your face! You want some, 4 x 2 lover?

    Obviously there is no parallel at all, what with Jezza's obvious and undisputed non anti semitism, but I thought I'd say that anyway.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644

    dixiedean said:

    Another point re P+O.
    Would 13 week's pay leave many of them unable to claim Universal Credit?

    I think a statutory redundancy payment counts as capital, rather than income so, no, unless the redundancy amount takes the individual's total savings over £6,000. Savings above £6,000 will start to taper down UC payments; total savings above £16,000 = no UC payments.
    You can also get (new style) JSA for 6 months if you have enough NICs. No capital (or spousal income) restrictions.
    Good point!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    Two heartbeats? If Biden dies, Harris appoints a new VP pretty quickly, no?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    A rare silver lining of a bunch of nutty fascists winning the election would be the average age in the US government going down slightly.

    Well...it's a faint silver lining.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    Two heartbeats? If Biden dies, Harris appoints a new VP pretty quickly, no?
    Has to be ratified by the Senate first I believe.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    14 minutes added on. Is that a PL record?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Are the stories of P&OF being 40% owned by an oligarch true?

    I couldn't find any evidence of that. All seems to be in Dubai.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    A rare silver lining of a bunch of nutty fascists winning the election would be the average age in the US government going down slightly.

    Well...it's a faint silver lining.
    Doesn't that just mean that we have to put up with them for longer?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    A rare silver lining of a bunch of nutty fascists winning the election would be the average age in the US government going down slightly.

    Well...it's a faint silver lining.
    Doesn't that just mean that we have to put up with them for longer?
    Bollocks. Silver lining disappears.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Sod off to Russia then and live under the regime of your hero Putin!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Sod off to Russia then and live under the regime of your hero Putin!
    Calm down, boomer
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    Interesting article on a battle in Ukraine at end of week 1:

    Russia’s rapid thrust into Voznesensk was meant to showcase its military prowess. Instead, the Ukrainian town dealt Russian forces one of the most humiliating defeats of the war. My report from the battlefield where Russian bodies are still being collected https://t.co/bZf1ZmDRDK
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    Two heartbeats? If Biden dies, Harris appoints a new VP pretty quickly, no?
    Has to be ratified by the Senate first I believe.


    Yes fair point. Passed by a majority of both houses. Mind you if Harris was POTUS and Pelosinext in line, I suspect Republicans might fall into line pretty quickly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,321
    ...
    dixiedean said:

    14 minutes added on. Is that a PL record?

    Surely Fergie time went on for as long as it took to find the golden goal? Added time could have gone on for days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2022
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    By 2025 you never know 42 year old President Buttigieg could be giving his State of the Union Address in front of 59 year old Speaker Mccarthy.

    Both under 60, let alone under 80 unlike Pelosi and (nearly) Biden. Putin is 69 and Xi 68
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Sign of the apocalypse.
    Iwobi scores!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,916
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Laura Kuenssberg Translator
    @BBCLauraKT
    BREAKING: There is a 99.9% chance that when Boris Johnson attended the Lebedev party "with girls" that he was compromised and Russia has the video footage. This theory would explain sooo much lol x

    Although Corbyn hanging out with a lot of demented anti-semites hasn't damaged him (at least, not in your eyes) so why should Johnson be compromised by photographs of him with girls?
    Its a parody account and its called satire.

    Before today you would have been happy to call Laura Murray a demented anti semite presumably.

    I believe Seamus Milne has a case against the Mail coming up soon too if you want to chance your arm
    I have no doubt - and I do mean no doubt - that if Adolf hitler had successfully sued someone for libelling him as an anti semite in 1936, you would have been marching along behind him shouting In your face! You want some, 4 x 2 lover?

    Obviously there is no parallel at all, what with Jezza's obvious and undisputed non anti semitism, but I thought I'd say that anyway.
    A minor point but were there any laws against being an antisemite anywhere before WWII? Afaics it was absolutely rife, to the point of it being more likely that a punter might think they were being libelled if accused of being excessively fond of Jews.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    Foxy said:


    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    A rare silver lining of a bunch of nutty fascists winning the election would be the average age in the US government going down slightly.

    Well...it's a faint silver lining.
    Doesn't that just mean that we have to put up with them for longer?
    Bollocks. Silver lining disappears.
    This cartoon popped up in my social media. I thought it might amuse:


    Particularly if they're obsessively wrong about it :smile:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    TBF not many would have been Muslim, Jedi Knight, or Pagan over that timescale and given their ages at attaining office. Or Quaker or Plymouth Brethren, albeit for rather different reasons.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    TBF not many would have been Muslim, Jedi Knight, or Pagan over that timescale and given their ages at attaining office. Or Quaker or Plymouth Brethren, albeit for rather different reasons.
    We will never have a Jedi Prime Minister. Our constitution forbids the use of Force.

    Good night.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,635

    Are the stories of P&OF being 40% owned by an oligarch true?

    I couldn't find any evidence of that. All seems to be in Dubai.
    They had a joint venture with Rusatom (for nuclear ice breakers) and the RDIF both of which are basically the Kremlin. That part might be 40% Russian owned, but probably not the whole business.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005

    Are the stories of P&OF being 40% owned by an oligarch true?

    P & O = Putin & Oligarchs.
    I refer the honourable gentleman to the post I made several hours ago...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    Sod off to Russia then and live under the regime of your hero Putin!
    Calm down, boomer
    Not so enamoured of Putin anymore then?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    TBF not many would have been Muslim, Jedi Knight, or Pagan over that timescale and given their ages at attaining office. Or Quaker or Plymouth Brethren, albeit for rather different reasons.
    Nixon was President of the US in the early 1970s and came from a Quaker family
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    TBF not many would have been Muslim, Jedi Knight, or Pagan over that timescale and given their ages at attaining office. Or Quaker or Plymouth Brethren, albeit for rather different reasons.
    We will never have a Jedi Prime Minister. Our constitution forbids the use of Force.

    Good night.
    These are not the Ministers you are looking for...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,916
    Leon said:
    Isn’t Moran the dingbat who rants about COVID vaccine fascism? Presumably he thinks someone wearing a mask looking at him a bit funny is Orwellian.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    TBF not many would have been Muslim, Jedi Knight, or Pagan over that timescale and given their ages at attaining office. Or Quaker or Plymouth Brethren, albeit for rather different reasons.
    Nixon was President of the US in the early 1970s and came from a Quaker family
    Yes, the US. Not the UK.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:
    Isn’t Moran the dingbat who rants about COVID vaccine fascism? Presumably he thinks someone wearing a mask looking at him a bit funny is Orwellian.
    No idea. Never encountered him before. A good cartoon

    Orwell would indeed have been surprised to find history outpacing his speculative fiction
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Are the Russians making any progress at all? At what point do they begin to fall back?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    Thank fuck

    I don't envy American voters. The Democrats are diseased and need to be hurled into oblivion for a decade to acquire more sense and better leaders. And yet, Trump and the GOP contrive to be worse?!

    Maybe Putin and China are right. Democracy is fatally flawed

    It's not a good time to be doubting the fundamentals of western freedom, but America is making me do that
    By 2025 you never know 42 year old President Buttigieg could be giving his State of the Union Address in front of 59 year old Speaker Mccarthy.

    Both under 60, let alone under 80 unlike Pelosi and (nearly) Biden. Putin is 69 and Xi 68
    I thought XI was eleven?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Foxy said:

    I see the workers are finding out what global buccaneering Britain is all about, and why they need a decent union.

    Weasel words from No 10 too saying how terrible it is blah blah blah but doing SFA to stop it.
    If it's illegal, they don't need to do anything to stop it other than have a word with the appropriate regulator.

    If it's not illegal, they can't do anything to stop it. Rule of law.
    Er... They could, of course, change the law to prevent it happening again.
    They could. But that wouldn't stop this occurrence.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696
    So having done a bit more reading the P&O ferries move feels like Ronald Reagan sacking the unionised air traffic controllers, just handled very poorly.

    One day I do wonder whether a future London Mayor will take on the RMT and bankrupt TfL as a way to restructure all contracts and actually make the network sustainable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
    Love?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,582
    kle4 said:

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
    Love?
    I wonder how he got to the ground?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    From the BBC, this story is oddly framed. The city is under occupation, but shouldn't the BBC still call him the mayor, not the ex-mayor?

    The former mayor of Melitopol - now under Russian control - has been speaking out about his alleged kidnapping and detention by Russian forces.

    Ivan Federov led the south-eastern city until it fell to invading Russian forces early on and he was kidnapped six days ago.

    He was freed on Wednesday after Ukraine said it had agreed to exchange nine captured Russian soldiers to get him back.

    Speaking to the BBC's Audrey Brown, Federov said Russian troops took him from his office without a word and he had no connection with the outside world while in their custody.

    He said he was kept in a small room with armed soldiers but was never physically harmed.

    Occupying forces in Melitopol have replaced Federov with their own mayor.

    But the ex-mayor insists his successor is not the rightful head of the local government, as he was voted in by more than 60% of people.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    From another PB.

    If the rumours are true, then he wouldn't be the first Prime Minister to have an awkward godparent situation. Wendi Deng let slip that Tony Blair was godfather to one of Murdoch's daughters. David Cameron remained unhelpfully tied to Michael Gove for years after their bust-up because Sarah Vine is godmother to one of his.

    So just a heads up to Boris that he might want to get prepping his lines if he's ever made Evgeny Lebedev an offer to become the spiritual guardian to one of his many, many children. Because one of the broadsheets is currently investigating a claim that he has.

    If they'd been good Presbyterians life would be so much simpler.
    Murdoch's children had Roman Catholic baptisms, his wife being a Catholic. He also has a Papal Knighthood. His mother was Jewish. His grandfather was even a Presbyterian minister. Johnson is also now a Roman Catholic.

    Only Cameron is Church of England
    I don't think there is any evidence that Boris is RC except in the sense of having been baptised in it. He was, according to Wiki, confirmed C o E. I sense that he is is religiously protean, as are lots of people.

    A remarkable number have been clearly practising Christian: May, Brown, Blair, Heath. Cameron : classic public school Christian. Major: vague. Thatcher: uniquely hand bag toting non conformist. Callaghan: Baptist. Wilson: No idea.
    TBF not many would have been Muslim, Jedi Knight, or Pagan over that timescale and given their ages at attaining office. Or Quaker or Plymouth Brethren, albeit for rather different reasons.
    Nixon was President of the US in the early 1970s and came from a Quaker family
    Yes, the US. Not the UK.
    Jim Hacker was a Quaker and lifelong pacifist. Well Paul Eddington anyway.

    With this knowledge, this scene is worth rewatching.

    https://youtu.be/P7YR6WICIAI


  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    It’s one thing Bono writing that shit, it’s another one Pelosi reading it.

    She should have stuck with Yeats, as @Cyclefree could have told her.

    Fucking morons the lot of them.

    Happy St Patrick’s Day, all.

    I think some allowance has to be made for very old people thinking Bono is quite the young hipster, helping them to connect with de yoot. Next up, Mick and the boys (the ones left alive) introduce Biden’s state of the union address.
    No. No allowance

    You would not grant Trump any latitude

    This woman probably should not be in charge of a shopping cart, she is orders of magnitude incapable of running a superpower. It is embarrassing and scary that America is reduced to this, just as we tiptoe towards World War 3
    Isn't it good news she isn't, then?
    She's two heartbeats away from running the USA, and she has significant power in the Capitol

    It's ridiculous. She's my sad demented aunty Lois on the sauce.

    America, get a grip
    By January it will probably be GOP leader Kevin Mccarthy after the midterms who replaces Pelosi as Speaker and 3rd in line anyway.

    Mccarthy is 57
    A rare silver lining of a bunch of nutty fascists winning the election would be the average age in the US government going down slightly.

    Well...it's a faint silver lining.
    Doesn't that just mean that we have to put up with them for longer?
    Bollocks. Silver lining disappears.
    As The Master (no, not that one) put it;

    It's no good whining
    About a silver lining
    For we know from experience that they won't roll by
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723
    MaxPB said:

    So having done a bit more reading the P&O ferries move feels like Ronald Reagan sacking the unionised air traffic controllers, just handled very poorly.

    One day I do wonder whether a future London Mayor will take on the RMT and bankrupt TfL as a way to restructure all contracts and actually make the network sustainable.

    Hmm.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homes_for_votes_scandal
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    mwadams said:

    kle4 said:

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
    Love?
    I wonder how he got to the ground?
    Hitched a ride. Ass, grass or cash.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191
    Leon said:

    Leon said:
    Isn’t Moran the dingbat who rants about COVID vaccine fascism? Presumably he thinks someone wearing a mask looking at him a bit funny is Orwellian.
    No idea. Never encountered him before. A good cartoon

    Orwell would indeed have been surprised to find history outpacing his speculative fiction
    I was covering a lesson on Dystopian Fiction recently... The first UK series of Big Brother was in 2000. Over 20 years ago.

    Blooming hell, I'm getting old.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    kle4 said:

    mwadams said:

    kle4 said:

    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    WTF is going on at Goodison.

    Bloody.hell.
    I almost thought we might have scored.
    Fucking Dahmer there.



    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Heaton/status/1504561719565295621

    Took a massive pair of bolt cutters to remove him.

    He then flopped to the floor and needed like six stewards/rozzers to carry him off.

    Also, another Evertonian tried to get to him to give him a bollocking.
    Lol

    What a bellend. Hope he doesn’t ‘fall down the stairs’
    I’m just totally enlightened - I don’t know why we didn’t listen to him and his fellow travellers earlier. It’s so simple, no war, no environmental damage, nothing. We just need to “stop oil”.



    I imagine the back of his t-shirt explains fully what we replace it with?
    Love?
    I wonder how he got to the ground?
    Hitched a ride. Ass, grass or cash.
    Why not just leave him there? Finish the game, everyone leaves, turn out the lights etc. He could stay there all night.....
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    I'm surprised Bono has finally decided to out himself as a Vogon.
This discussion has been closed.