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Sunak and Truss drop sharply in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited March 2022 in General
imageSunak and Truss drop sharply in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

It is extraordinary to note the huge changes that have taken place over the past 6 weeks in the betting for next prime minister. As can be seen from the chart the big losers in the eyes of punters have been Chancellor Sunak and Foreign Secretary Liz Truss.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    swing_voter said:

    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded

    I have long subscribed to the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election (when he will lose) but I agree with this post.

    He is not out of the woods. Sad to say that barring escalation Ukraine will drop off the front pages and two years is an awfully long time in politics ...
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Heathener said:

    swing_voter said:

    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded

    I have long subscribed to the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election (when he will lose) but I agree with this post.

    He is not out of the woods. Sad to say that barring escalation Ukraine will drop off the front pages and two years is an awfully long time in politics ...
    Ukraine will lead the news for as long as it is occupied.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not surprised.

    She's been less than impressive lately and he lacked the guts, or the numbers, to axe the PM when he should've.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,496
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not surprised.

    She's been less than impressive lately and he lacked the guts, or the numbers, to axe the PM when he should've.

    And we've had a further demonstration of the PM's determination to defy those who would try to prise him out of the big chair.

    Any removal of Boris, whether by Conservative MPs or at a General Election, isn't going to be pretty.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
    "In less than a week, the United States and NATO have pushed more than 17,000 antitank weapons, including Javelin missiles, over the borders of Poland and Romania,"
    nytimes.com/2022/03/06/us/…

    https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1500678836173869059?s=21
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    As I've said for ages, Rishi Sunak is the Indian heritage David Miliband.

    Lest we forget he is a coward who is only Chancellor because he was prepared to wear the political gimp mask handed to him by Dom Cummings.

    He will not feature in any profiles in courage.

    #MissedHisChance

    As for Liz Truss, her conduct over the announcement of the Usmanov sanctions shows she's unfit to run a bath let alone high office.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    The Batman was awesome.
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As I've said for ages, Rishi Sunak is the Indian heritage David Miliband.

    Lest we forget he is a coward who is only Chancellor because he was prepared to wear the political gimp mask handed to him by Dom Cummings.

    He will not feature in any profiles in courage.

    #MissedHisChance

    As for Liz Truss, her conduct over the announcement of the Usmanov sanctions shows she's unfit to run a bath let alone high office.

    I'm not sure what the Usmanov sanctions were.. but her off the cuff support for fighting volunteers will have caused her FCDO/MOD collageagues no end of spluttering...(MOD now trying to rein that in by all accounts)
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,012
    CarlottaVance said:

    "In less than a week, the United States and NATO have pushed more than 17,000 antitank weapons, including Javelin missiles, over the borders of Poland and Romania,"
    nytimes.com/2022/03/06/us/…

    https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1500678836173869059?s=21

    That's about 15,000 useful weapons from the UK, the US, Sweden and France.

    And 2,000 out of date German weapons that may - or may not - work.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    rcs1000 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    "In less than a week, the United States and NATO have pushed more than 17,000 antitank weapons, including Javelin missiles, over the borders of Poland and Romania,"
    nytimes.com/2022/03/06/us/…

    https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1500678836173869059?s=21

    That's about 15,000 useful weapons from the UK, the US, Sweden and France.

    And 2,000 out of date German weapons that may - or may not - work.
    Those German weapons will get on well with the Russian weapons. They both have good memories of the Cold War.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009
    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    swing_voter said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As I've said for ages, Rishi Sunak is the Indian heritage David Miliband.

    Lest we forget he is a coward who is only Chancellor because he was prepared to wear the political gimp mask handed to him by Dom Cummings.

    He will not feature in any profiles in courage.

    #MissedHisChance

    As for Liz Truss, her conduct over the announcement of the Usmanov sanctions shows she's unfit to run a bath let alone high office.

    I'm not sure what the Usmanov sanctions were.. but her off the cuff support for fighting volunteers will have caused her FCDO/MOD collageagues no end of spluttering...(MOD now trying to rein that in by all accounts)
    She didn't follow protocols when announcing sanctions, which theoretically could have allowed the target of the sanctions to transfer money out of the UK to a safe haven.
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    swing_voter said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As I've said for ages, Rishi Sunak is the Indian heritage David Miliband.

    Lest we forget he is a coward who is only Chancellor because he was prepared to wear the political gimp mask handed to him by Dom Cummings.

    He will not feature in any profiles in courage.

    #MissedHisChance

    As for Liz Truss, her conduct over the announcement of the Usmanov sanctions shows she's unfit to run a bath let alone high office.

    I'm not sure what the Usmanov sanctions were.. but her off the cuff support for fighting volunteers will have caused her FCDO/MOD collageagues no end of spluttering...(MOD now trying to rein that in by all accounts)
    She didn't follow protocols when announcing sanctions, which theoretically could have allowed the target of the sanctions to transfer money out of the UK to a safe haven.
    She cannot keep her gob shut which in war is at least sackable.why she still is there is a mystery.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    swing_voter said:

    her off the cuff support for fighting volunteers will have caused her FCDO/MOD collageagues no end of spluttering...(MOD now trying to rein that in by all accounts)

    The Army have written to all serving personnel stating that they are NOT invited
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,760
    The Russian ruble was indicated 10% lower to a record low in offshore trading amid investor concern an oil embargo will crush the country’s economy.

    The currency fell to a record low 136.50 against the dollar after U.S. State Secretary Anthony Blinken said the U.S. and its allies are discussing an embargo on Russian oil supplies in a further retaliation for the invasion of Ukraine.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-07/ruble-indicated-at-record-low-offshore-on-talk-of-oil-embargo
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,328
    swing_voter said:

    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded

    Good morning

    The idea this war will be off the front pages anytime soon is hope over expectation

    This war and its consequences will dominate for years and the Ukrainians will never roll over even if Russia occupies the Country and sanctions are not going to be removed for the foreseeable future

    As far as Boris is concerned I expect he will survive and even lead into GE24 and I accept Rishi and Truss leadership seems to be over though they will no doubt feature in any future leadership campaign

    It is essential the UK-US-EU-NATO continue their recent unity and cooperation both now and for years into the future
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    state_go_away said:

    why she still is there is a mystery.

    She is no threat to BoZo. That's why most of them are still there
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Dura_Ace said:

    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.

    Weren't many of the NLAW we've sent approaching their "use by" date?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,325
    Dura_Ace said:

    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.

    I would be seriously disappointed if the MOD were not being given considerable leeway to move closer to our paper strength for kit etc from our actual strength when a lot of kit is out of commission because of lack of spare parts etc. Training too should be getting stepped up. There is a not inconsiderable chance that we are weeks away from a major war. We need to be ready.

    Bit late to fill the vacancies but the reserves too should be getting a wake up.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303
    state_go_away said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    swing_voter said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    As I've said for ages, Rishi Sunak is the Indian heritage David Miliband.

    Lest we forget he is a coward who is only Chancellor because he was prepared to wear the political gimp mask handed to him by Dom Cummings.

    He will not feature in any profiles in courage.

    #MissedHisChance

    As for Liz Truss, her conduct over the announcement of the Usmanov sanctions shows she's unfit to run a bath let alone high office.

    I'm not sure what the Usmanov sanctions were.. but her off the cuff support for fighting volunteers will have caused her FCDO/MOD collageagues no end of spluttering...(MOD now trying to rein that in by all accounts)
    She didn't follow protocols when announcing sanctions, which theoretically could have allowed the target of the sanctions to transfer money out of the UK to a safe haven.
    She cannot keep her gob shut.
    That's not the part of her body she's historically been unable to keep shut.

    But then, it's not either/or.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    Dura_Ace said:

    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.

    Probably true - and also we manufacture the NLAW, so replacing them is easier as well as cheaper. And there was some talk about the stock originally sent being close to its use by date.
    But none if that detracts from its being a highly effective weapon which complements Javelin, and is massively easier to use.
    With a load of part time military being thrown into the fight, that matters.

    Where our stinginess will be more consequential is in our readiness to accept refugees.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    swing_voter said:

    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded

    I have long subscribed to the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election (when he will lose) but I agree with this post.

    He is not out of the woods. Sad to say that barring escalation Ukraine will drop off the front pages and two years is an awfully long time in politics ...
    Ukraine will lead the news for as long as it is occupied.
    I'm afraid, sadly, it will not remain on the front pages. As long as this does not escalate it will eventually fade as a lead news item for most of papers.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Good morning everyone. After a rather wet and gloomy (although not exclusively so) weekend here, Monday morning brings blue skies. Still chilly, though.

    The PM is living up to his reputation for luck, in that people tend to 'rally round the flag' in times of crisis, but, as per the previous thread, some of his (even) more questionable actions are beginning to be questioned in much more depth.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009
    MarqueeMark said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.

    Weren't many of the NLAW we've sent approaching their "use by" date?
    Dunno, but they were bought in the mid noughties so probably.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    The Truss slipping is noteable, since she's had lots of exposure during the crisis and, were she having a good war, it would have placed her nicely as a potential challenger/successor.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    Heathener said:

    swing_voter said:

    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded

    I have long subscribed to the view that Johnson will survive until the next General Election (when he will lose) but I agree with this post.

    He is not out of the woods. Sad to say that barring escalation Ukraine will drop off the front pages and two years is an awfully long time in politics ...
    Ukraine will lead the news for as long as it is occupied.
    I'm afraid, sadly, it will not remain on the front pages. As long as this does not escalate it will eventually fade as a lead news item for most of papers.
    Unless this is over very soon, it will not fade. It's going to affect every aspect of our lives for quite a while.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303
    IanB2 said:

    The Truss slipping is noteable, since she's had lots of exposure during the crisis and, were she having a good war, it would have placed her nicely as a potential challenger/successor.

    So it's not all bad news, then?
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    The reason it will drop off the front pages (unless it escalates) is that

    1. This is what happens with all news items

    2. It's nasty and horrible and after a while people don't want to read that. I know people already who have switched off from it for their own sanity

    3. There are a lot of people more focused on their own back yard

    I'm not justifying any of the above. It's simply inevitable. Newspapers are governed by circulation figures.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.

    I would be seriously disappointed if the MOD were not being given considerable leeway to move closer to our paper strength for kit etc from our actual strength when a lot of kit is out of commission because of lack of spare parts etc. Training too should be getting stepped up. There is a not inconsiderable chance that we are weeks away from a major war. We need to be ready.

    Bit late to fill the vacancies but the reserves too should be getting a wake up.
    Replacing weapons takes years, not weeks.
    And there will be a queue for what we can buy off the shelf.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Dura_Ace said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I wonder why the UK isn't handing over any Javelin - which is a much bigger stick than NLAW.

    I assume cost comes into it somewhere as Javelin rounds are very expensive and the MoD will have no fucking hope of being reimbursed for them.

    Weren't many of the NLAW we've sent approaching their "use by" date?
    Dunno, but they were bought in the mid noughties so probably.
    Scrapping each one on a bit of Russian kit gets my vote....
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    edited March 2022
    swing_voter said:

    BJ is by no means out of the woods yet.... by the time the May locals come round, Ukraine may have slipped off our nightly news cycle and the UK (like most of the West's) position could hardly be describing as `the right calls'... I still think BJ is pretty vulnerable. Thatcher fell about 10 weeks after Kuwait was invaded

    He might even be worse placed - for, on top of having broken his own laws and lied to parliament and the media, he's now increasingly looking embroiled in Russian-related scandal.

    At the least he was soft on Russia and did nothing to ready us for what was to come - the precise opposite behaviour from that of his political hero, who didn't spend the late 1930s holidaying with top Nazis or giving them seats in the House of Lords.

    Further, events in Ukraine are almost totally beyond his control, and his usual habit of over-selling and under-delivering will be a lot more conspicuous when it's a news story that people won't forget about and move on.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    edited March 2022
    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express
  • Options
    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 600
    Not sure if this has been mentioned but clue in Saturday's Telegraph crossword: Heard lies about heading to party - this is what we expect from the PM. Answer: leadership (anagram). Originally I put dealership (also anagram).
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    IanB2 said:

    his usual habit of over-selling and under-delivering will be a lot more conspicuous when it's a news story that people won't forget about and move on.

    'The prime minister said 275 individuals have been sanctioned over the invasion of Ukraine, 100 last week alone - our figures suggest that it's 15?' - #KayBurley

    "That number is wrong," claims Europe Minister James Cleverly.

    Live updates: http://trib.al/QTC8as2 https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1500738159105253378/video/1
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    Denmark to hold referendum on scrapping EU defence opt-out
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/denmark-to-hold-referendum-eu-defence-opt-out
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    Special adviser who joked about Christmas parties in THAT video - which forced Allegra Stratton to tearfully quit in a humiliating blaze of publicity over a party she wasn’t at - quietly leaves government three months later https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1500738553436848129/photo/1
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    Government sources clarify that there will not be a new route - it's the existing humanitarian route under which people need to be sponsored by organsations.

    But initial estimates of 200,000 people to come under this and family scheme likely to rise due to terrible conditions.
    https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1500730542072946688
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    Scott_xP said:

    state_go_away said:

    why she still is there is a mystery.

    She is no threat to BoZo. That's why most of them are still there
    Like a caller to LBC said during a phone-in of outrage about Sir Gavin, objectively a knighthood is a small price to pay for getting rid of a dangerous twat from government, and Sirs Dominic and Jacob, and Ladies Liz and Pritti, can't come soon enough....
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,325
    A musical interlude this morning: https://twitter.com/hashtag/UkraineUnderAttack?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1500496884255051776|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60635927&src=hashtag_click

    These people are magnificent.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    edited March 2022
    Stuartinromford said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not surprised.

    She's been less than impressive lately and he lacked the guts, or the numbers, to axe the PM when he should've.

    And we've had a further demonstration of the PM's determination to defy those who would try to prise him out of the big chair.

    Any removal of Boris, whether by Conservative MPs or at a General Election, isn't going to be pretty.
    No, I doubt she'll get it, with odds too long to make it onto the graphic.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Does the i have a print edition ?
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    Good morning from Ukraine. Cold and specks of snow . Dark days now . We will not invade, they have. We will not target civilians, they are. We will stop firing to let people out. They don’t. Day 12 of this hell. #Ukraine
    https://twitter.com/markaustintv/status/1500738872933818368
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Does the i have a print edition ?
    Certainly does
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009
    Nigelb said:

    Denmark to hold referendum on scrapping EU defence opt-out
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/denmark-to-hold-referendum-eu-defence-opt-out

    Talking of referedumi does Farage's latest wheeze of having one on Net Zero/'Green Crap' have any legs?

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-has-called-for-another-referendum-312193/

    I mean, obviously you'd think not but then again Hartlepool exists and people like this would probably vote for it so who the fuck knows.


  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,328
    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    That is rather silly as something will command a days headlines but this war is going to dominate the media for months and years
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
    Would do the job though!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,709
    edited March 2022
    Two encouraging articles.

    "Putin’s forces in Ukraine war are decimated, says UK defence chief"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putins-forces-in-ukraine-war-are-decimated-says-uk-defence-chief-x7khnbfzq

    "This war will be a total failure, FSB whistleblower says"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
    "Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany. A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine."
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,262
    IanB2 said:

    The Truss slipping is noteable, since she's had lots of exposure during the crisis and, were she having a good war, it would have placed her nicely as a potential challenger/successor.

    Sadly, apart from her excellent cosplay pics she hasn't done much that is good, and has done much that is bad.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    White House correspondent report of an active shooter on Andrews airforce base.
    I have no information other than this, but I am told JBA is on lockdown right now due to reports of an active shooter. Another reporter and I are in a shuttle van that is being held due to situation.

    The VP had already left base on Marine 2.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/scottdetrow/status/1500654480949497858
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
    Would do the job though!
    It would indeed.

    But I'm not relying on that to win the bet!
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
    Would do the job though!
    Can't really tick 'Like' to either of these can one?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    OldKingCole said:

    Good morning everyone. After a rather wet and gloomy (although not exclusively so) weekend here, Monday morning brings blue skies. Still chilly, though.

    The PM is living up to his reputation for luck, in that people tend to 'rally round the flag' in times of crisis, but, as per the previous thread, some of his (even) more questionable actions are beginning to be questioned in much more depth.

    Morning OKC, yet again Blue sky and sunshine here, fresh but cold. Going to be another beautiful day.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,328
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    Why would anyone bet on something that is more than likely and frankly pointless
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,347
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Denmark to hold referendum on scrapping EU defence opt-out
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/denmark-to-hold-referendum-eu-defence-opt-out

    Talking of referedumi does Farage's latest wheeze of having one on Net Zero/'Green Crap' have any legs?

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-has-called-for-another-referendum-312193/

    I mean, obviously you'd think not but then again Hartlepool exists and people like this would probably vote for it so who the fuck knows.


    Even if we ignore the merits and the logic, how would he propose we create a yes/no question?

    “Should we reach net zero by 2050?” That would resolve nothing. 2049? 2055? So is it more about whether we should reduce carbon emissions at all? If that’s the case, does anyone actually think we shouldn’t?

    If only we had some means by which folk could choose a government every four or five years based on an overall policy prospectus that covered off these issues…

    As ever, his idea is silly. But that doesn’t mean he can’t get traction with it. Almost a “reverse Green Party”? Got to be a reliable 5-10% in that.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Andy_JS said:

    Two encouraging articles.

    "Putin’s forces in Ukraine war are decimated, says UK defence chief"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putins-forces-in-ukraine-war-are-decimated-says-uk-defence-chief-x7khnbfzq

    "This war will be a total failure, FSB whistleblower says"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
    "Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany. A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine."

    As ever, IANAE.

    IMV the next week are key. There are vague signs that Russian forces are building up for an attack, possibly on Kiev. If that works, the war is essentially over. If it fails, Russia is in even deeper trouble.

    Can Kiev, and Ukraine, hold on for that week despite everything Russia throws at them? I hope so, but I doubt it... :(
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Nigelb said:

    White House correspondent report of an active shooter on Andrews airforce base.
    I have no information other than this, but I am told JBA is on lockdown right now due to reports of an active shooter. Another reporter and I are in a shuttle van that is being held due to situation.

    The VP had already left base on Marine 2.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/scottdetrow/status/1500654480949497858

    https://www.news18.com/news/world/active-shooter-situation-in-joint-base-andrews-kamala-harris-doug-emhoff-depart-safely-4844345.html
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Denmark to hold referendum on scrapping EU defence opt-out
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/denmark-to-hold-referendum-eu-defence-opt-out

    Talking of referedumi does Farage's latest wheeze of having one on Net Zero/'Green Crap' have any legs?

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-has-called-for-another-referendum-312193/

    I mean, obviously you'd think not but then again Hartlepool exists and people like this would probably vote for it so who the fuck knows....
    I don't think so.
    Though evolution is still a matter of political debate in the US, so I guess anything's possible.

  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,262
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    That is rather silly as something will command a days headlines but this war is going to dominate the media for months and years
    It won't, and for the simple reason that they will run out of new things to talk about. This is the scenario where the offensive bogs down into the mud and ends up as a protracted "battle" with occasional skirmishes but neither side making substantial progress.

    If that happens, it won't new news any more - the clue is in the "NEW" part of the word news. Other newer more shocking events and revelations will rank higher than retread reporting about Ukraine and gradually it recedes. Will still pop back up, we'll still get front pages, but they will be UK focused not Ukraine focused.

    We have already seen that. The Mail on Sunday front page was an internal UK politics "story", not war reporting.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
    Would do the job though!
    It would indeed.

    But I'm not relying on that to win the bet!
    How do you get a story onto the front print page of the Independent?

    Just asking the expert :smile: .
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    MattW said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
    Would do the job though!
    It would indeed.

    But I'm not relying on that to win the bet!
    How do you get a story onto the front print page of the Independent?

    Just asking the expert :smile: .
    Have a look here:

    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,664
    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    You going for London Bridge, huh?
    ? Don't understand.

    I'm sure it's a clever comment but to someone who you don't have marked for intelligence you might have to stoop to explain.
    The death of HM the Q....
    Oh!!!!!

    Gosh. No I wasn't actually.
    Would do the job though!
    It would indeed.

    But I'm not relying on that to win the bet!
    Heathener said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Does the i have a print edition ?
    Certainly does
    The Independent ?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    biggles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Denmark to hold referendum on scrapping EU defence opt-out
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/denmark-to-hold-referendum-eu-defence-opt-out

    Talking of referedumi does Farage's latest wheeze of having one on Net Zero/'Green Crap' have any legs?

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/nigel-farage-has-called-for-another-referendum-312193/

    I mean, obviously you'd think not but then again Hartlepool exists and people like this would probably vote for it so who the fuck knows.


    Even if we ignore the merits and the logic, how would he propose we create a yes/no question?

    “Should we reach net zero by 2050?” That would resolve nothing. 2049? 2055? So is it more about whether we should reduce carbon emissions at all? If that’s the case, does anyone actually think we shouldn’t?

    If only we had some means by which folk could choose a government every four or five years based on an overall policy prospectus that covered off these issues…

    As ever, his idea is silly. But that doesn’t mean he can’t get traction with it. Almost a “reverse Green Party”? Got to be a reliable 5-10% in that.
    Even if a referendum was to happen it’s not likely to happen in the near future.

    So what’s his endgame. Stay in the spotlight, appear relevant, start another party ? The majority accept the need to move away from fossil fuels and get to net zero. He’s pushing at something that has public support.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,262
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    How are we counting stories like yesterday's MoS which was about Boris and UK politics, but with a Ukraine backdrop.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,008
    Kyiv/Kiev is, I believe, very important, in 'folklore' and history for both Russians and Ukrainians.
    Was it severely damaged in WWII? If not, would not there be resistance to heavy street fighting, and consequent damage to or destruction of, ancient buildings?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    I am happy to take the bet for a tenner
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    That is rather silly as something will command a days headlines but this war is going to dominate the media for months and years
    It won't, and for the simple reason that they will run out of new things to talk about. This is the scenario where the offensive bogs down into the mud and ends up as a protracted "battle" with occasional skirmishes but neither side making substantial progress.

    If that happens, it won't new news any more - the clue is in the "NEW" part of the word news. Other newer more shocking events and revelations will rank higher than retread reporting about Ukraine and gradually it recedes. Will still pop back up, we'll still get front pages, but they will be UK focused not Ukraine focused.

    We have already seen that. The Mail on Sunday front page was an internal UK politics "story", not war reporting.
    This is spot on.

    As I made clear, I'm not justifying it. It's just the reality of the way news, as you rightly explain, works.

    There's a secondary reason why this is not pointless, quite aside from the awful situation in Ukraine itself, and that is that it links back to the thread by Mike.

    Sooner or later, as long as it doesn't escalate then Ukraine WILL drop off the front pages and that does not mean that Johnson is out of the woods. Two years is an awfully long time to the next GE. I happen to think he will survive but I wouldn't want to put down good money on that.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    Are we in a good position to demand reparations from Russia. How else will they get their central bank assets unfrozen?
  • Options
    swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    I am happy to take the bet for a tenner
    If London Bridge gets called...
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    I am happy to take the bet for a tenner
    If that were the bet she is offering, anyone would take it.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    Nearly. If three of those papers DON'T have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on their front pages between now and end of April, I win. Print editions and have to be the same day (obviously).
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    edited March 2022
    OldKingCole said:

    Kyiv/Kiev is, I believe, very important, in 'folklore' and history for both Russians and Ukrainians.
    Was it severely damaged in WWII? If not, would not there be resistance to heavy street fighting, and consequent damage to or destruction of, ancient buildings?

    ;
    According to Wiki, there were two battles at and around it:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1941)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1943)

    It appears to have been fairly trashed
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1943)#/media/File:Kiev_Kreschatik_after_liberation_November_1943.jpg

    Edit: this is quite an interesting site, although some pictures are from before the 1943 battle:
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2017/11/06/the-soviet-army-liberated-kyiv-from-nazis-74-years-ago-today/
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,328
    edited March 2022
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    That is rather silly as something will command a days headlines but this war is going to dominate the media for months and years
    It won't, and for the simple reason that they will run out of new things to talk about. This is the scenario where the offensive bogs down into the mud and ends up as a protracted "battle" with occasional skirmishes but neither side making substantial progress.

    If that happens, it won't new news any more - the clue is in the "NEW" part of the word news. Other newer more shocking events and revelations will rank higher than retread reporting about Ukraine and gradually it recedes. Will still pop back up, we'll still get front pages, but they will be UK focused not Ukraine focused.

    We have already seen that. The Mail on Sunday front page was an internal UK politics "story", not war reporting.
    The Mail on Sunday front page was Boris 6 point plan to beat Putin

    I rather think you hope it will recede from news but that is as I have said earlier hope over expectation
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,013
    swing_voter said:

    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    I am happy to take the bet for a tenner
    If London Bridge gets called...
    It si a tenner to charity who cares. Ukraine will be mentioned in papers for months to come and if I lose a Ukranian charity wins, no brainer. Lots of chickens about on here.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009
    biggles said:


    Even if we ignore the merits and the logic, how would he propose we create a yes/no question?

    REMAIN committed to Net Zero.

    LEAVE our commitment behind.

    Dom's got time on his hands. Maybe they are getting the band back together.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Andy_JS said:

    Two encouraging articles.

    "Putin’s forces in Ukraine war are decimated, says UK defence chief"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putins-forces-in-ukraine-war-are-decimated-says-uk-defence-chief-x7khnbfzq

    "This war will be a total failure, FSB whistleblower says"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
    "Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany. A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine."

    Decimated as in having lost one in ten?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Does the i have a print edition ?
    Yes, the i does.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    malcolmg said:

    swing_voter said:

    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    I am happy to take the bet for a tenner
    If London Bridge gets called...
    Lots of chickens about on here.
    I drafted something suggesting a lot of people on here who talk the talk are indeed frit.

    Which I've also noted in their response on Ukraine itself, interestingly.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    Nearly. If three of those papers DON'T have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on their front pages between now and end of April, I win. Print editions and have to be the same day (obviously).
    Let that be a lesson to you in wording things clearly!
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Does the i have a print edition ?
    Yes, the i does.
    Pretty good paper in fact
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,328
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    How are we counting stories like yesterday's MoS which was about Boris and UK politics, but with a Ukraine backdrop.
    Sorry but I have already corrected you about the Mail on Sunday
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,259
    Talking to a friend yesterday who has a Mittelstand business with subsidiaries in Russia and Ukraine. He just managed to get his Ukraine employees' families out of Ukraine (others wanted to stay and fight), he now has two families in his spare rooms. He said one of the children started crying when she heard the garbage truck because she thought it might be a tank. Of course he's writing off losses, and doesn't know if he can pay his Russian employees because of sanctions. He had thought he was doing the right thing investing in Russia, he didn't think he was supporting Putin - he believed the engagement would undermine Putin.

    He is quite pessimistic about the possibility of the war expanding - he thinks it is quite likely. And doesn't trust the US to a) care if a big war happens in Europe or b) actually really fight if one happens. These views are quite common. Accelerating German rearmament (not a phrase with happy connotations!) I think is very likely from now on.

    He asked me when Britain would freeze all the Russian money in London (as if I would know!), because "that would help".
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,031
    The Home Office has so far issued 50 visas to Ukrainians in its world-leading response to the humanitarian crisis.

    To be fair it took them a whole year to issue 72 golden investor visas to wealthy Russians who bought their way into Britain by the end of Sept 2021.
    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1500746158918053891
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    Nearly. If three of those papers DON'T have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on their front pages between now and end of April, I win. Print editions and have to be the same day (obviously).
    Let that be a lesson to you in wording things clearly!
    You are an example of the argumentative, irascible type who seems to come on here simply to argue.

    My original wording was perfectly clear.

    >

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    >

    I am sorry that you failed to see the word 'not'.

    No ambiguity whatsoever and perfectly clear.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    I am happy to take the bet for a tenner
    Morning Malc.

    How did your nags get on at the weekend ?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,229
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    his usual habit of over-selling and under-delivering will be a lot more conspicuous when it's a news story that people won't forget about and move on.

    'The prime minister said 275 individuals have been sanctioned over the invasion of Ukraine, 100 last week alone - our figures suggest that it's 15?' - #KayBurley

    "That number is wrong," claims Europe Minister James Cleverly.

    Live updates: http://trib.al/QTC8as2 https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1500738159105253378/video/1
    The fog of war?
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    Nearly. If three of those papers DON'T have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on their front pages between now and end of April, I win. Print editions and have to be the same day (obviously).
    Let that be a lesson to you in wording things clearly!
    Let this be a lesson to you to read carefully before writing a response.

    p.s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fLxGN71hwA
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    OldKingCole said:

    Kyiv/Kiev is, I believe, very important, in 'folklore' and history for both Russians and Ukrainians.
    Was it severely damaged in WWII? If not, would not there be resistance to heavy street fighting, and consequent damage to or destruction of, ancient buildings?

    Kiev was a busy place in WWII
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1941)

    It’s a very big city, 3m population and about the size of Birmingham. Lots of tall buildings and tens of thousands of armed locals waiting for the enemy.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,265
    Anyway, with that retort to Mr Ian, I'm off out.

    Have a nice day everyone and try not to get too angry with one another!
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    Nearly. If three of those papers DON'T have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on their front pages between now and end of April, I win. Print editions and have to be the same day (obviously).
    This wording is being written on the fly rather extensively :smile:
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    Heathener said:

    Anyway, with that retort to Mr Ian, I'm off out.

    Have a nice day everyone and try not to get too angry with one another!

    Enjoy your day. It’s a gorgeous spring day up here.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,298
    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    Sloppy wording which makes that so definitely a losing bet for you that it would be cruel to take your money.
    Have the courage to bet with me on it then if you're so sure.

    Let's make the proceeds go to one of the Ukrainian charity appeals. Then it won't be such a cruelty for you.

    (The wording was designed to make clear that it has to be on the same day obviously and 3 of those print editions. Pretty clear and explanatory.)
    So if there's a single day where at least three of those papers have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on the front page between now and the end of April, I win?
    Nearly. If three of those papers DON'T have Ukraine mentioned anywhere on their front pages between now and end of April, I win. Print editions and have to be the same day (obviously).
    Let that be a lesson to you in wording things clearly!
    You are an example of the argumentative, irascible type who seems to come on here simply to argue.

    My original wording was perfectly clear.

    >

    Okay I'll take a wager with any one of you for just a tenner that Ukraine will not feature on the front print page of three of the following on a single day between now and the end of next month:

    The Sun
    The Daily Mail
    The Daily Telegraph
    The Times
    The Guardian
    The Independent
    The i
    The Daily Express

    >

    I am sorry that you failed to see the word 'not'.

    No ambiguity whatsoever and perfectly clear.
    No, its ambiguous. Read it again..."will not feature...on a single day" can easily be read to mean won't feature on any day.

    But it matters not, since by your reading the bet is almost certainly a winner for you, and by the alternative reading almost certainly a loser. So neither is a reasonable bet at Evens.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,455
    MarqueeMark said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Two encouraging articles.

    "Putin’s forces in Ukraine war are decimated, says UK defence chief"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/putins-forces-in-ukraine-war-are-decimated-says-uk-defence-chief-x7khnbfzq

    "This war will be a total failure, FSB whistleblower says"
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/this-war-will-be-a-total-failure-fsb-whistleblower-says-wl2gtdl9m
    "Spies in Russia’s infamous security apparatus were kept in the dark about President Putin’s plan to invade Ukraine, according to a whistleblower who described the war as a “total failure” that could be compared only to the collapse of Nazi Germany. A report thought to be by an analyst in the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, said that the Russian dead could already number 10,000. The Russian defence ministry has acknowledged the deaths of only 498 of its soldiers in Ukraine."

    Decimated as in having lost one in ten?
    So the Times report is a writeup of the apparent FSB leak we were discussing on - Friday?

    Some of the losses claimed are, indeed, 10%+ of the equipment that ha been claimed to be committed to the invasion. So that is 2 lots of claimed - which makes it all a wild guess.....
This discussion has been closed.