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Johnson could face VONC “in days” – Daily Mail – politicalbetting.com

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,260

    Laughable from the MP for Dover saying that the miles of queues to Dover are NOT to do with Brexit but are to do with "Brussels red tape".

    Erm, she does understand that the red tape was imposed by us as part of our post-Brexit settlement?

    Yes those pesky foreigners insist on treating as as a non-member of the SM and CU.

  • eek said:

    Slight edit...
    We didn't impose it, the red tape is a consequence of decisions we've made that left the EU with no choice but to impose it...
    We demanded 3rd country status. This is 3rd country status.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Farooq said:

    New photo of the PM at a party... and... is that a bin bag covering the security camera? ;)

    I agree with your point Farooq. According the media, when Hancock was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, the government procurement card was used to quickly buy a job lot of bags for the security cameras and the bags are still in place.

    Does raise a couple of questions doesn’t it? 🙂
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,106
    Foxy said:

    No that's the curtains. They are like that always.
    To curtains to what? The door?
  • I have no sympathy with Boris but he did not say it never happened and indeed has just said it is part of the Met investigation
    Whats interesting here is that whilst he says it is being investigated, it is not on the list of events being investigated - not referred to the police.

    So, either the police have expanded their investigation and not told anyone. Or he lied to the house in response of Fabian Hamilton's question. And then lied to the house again in response to the final question calling him back to Fabian Hamilton's question.
  • Laughable from the MP for Dover saying that the miles of queues to Dover are NOT to do with Brexit but are to do with "Brussels red tape".

    Erm, she does understand that the red tape was imposed by us as part of our post-Brexit settlement?

    QTWTAIN
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161
    eek said:

    The point of PR is that it can be designed to give yourself almost the result you want.

    Personally I like the Irish approach of 5 member constituencies because it ensures there is a choice of views with popular parties getting 2 seats but the size of the constituency does determine the final makeup....

    4 seat constituencies than the most popular party ends up with 2 seats in most constituencies, 5 seat constituencies and the 2 most popular parties would end up with 2 seats.

    The latter creates a Parliament that would feel very different to the former.
    Only to a limited extent, much more limited than with FPTP. De Valera messed around with the method of election at least once in an attempt to retain power, and it didn't go entirely to plan.

    The most obvious ruse in a British STV system would be to have urban constituencies with more members (say a single Edinburgh constituency of 5 or 6 MPs) and have rural constituencies with fewer members (say 3 MPs) so that they're not geographically too big.

    Makes it easier for the Tories to pick up seats in urban areas, but harder for Labour to do the same in rural areas.

    Pretty marginal impact though.
  • Whats interesting here is that whilst he says it is being investigated, it is not on the list of events being investigated - not referred to the police.

    So, either the police have expanded their investigation and not told anyone. Or he lied to the house in response of Fabian Hamilton's question. And then lied to the house again in response to the final question calling him back to Fabian Hamilton's question.
    If the Met have expanded their investigations why on earth should they tell the public and to be honest there is a danger that the public will be turned off and frustrated as their real concerns are cost of living crisis
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    I have no sympathy with Boris but he did not say it never happened and indeed has just said it is part of the Met investigation
    Absolutely right. Boris needs an expensive police investigation and many weeks delay to inform him, what we are seeing in that photograph actually happened, so he can relay the answer to us… alongside how we are the fasting growing economy in the universe, first to open up from covid, how crime figures are down if you ignore this or that crime. Etc. Etc.

    Did you notice Big G how Sunak was laughing when called loan shark chancellor - imagine a Conservative leader with a sense of humour, rather than one all red mist and bluster!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,729

    Various numbers - some script writers said 10 years... I don't think there is an official answer.

    The original script was apparently quite dark. 10,000 years was supposed to have really, really messed him up.
    Left unstated, as I thought.
    It's a meta critique of Buddhism - you go through all those cycles of death and rebirth just to... live out the rest of your life. But in a good way.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,629

    I am old enough to remember when I was told categorically by several people on here that there were no photos of Johnson at any parties and he never attended them.

    Really? I think most said that they would believe it when they saw the photos, which is not the same thing at all.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,106
    With the new party photo - and after Boris’ so called relaunch - how long will it take MPs to realise this stuff never stops coming out?

    He’ll reshuffle and relaunch, something new appears and we’re back to it. It is constant
  • Absolutely right. Boris needs an expensive police investigation and many weeks delay to inform him, what we are seeing in that photograph actually happened, so he can relay the answer to us… alongside how we are the fasting growing economy in the universe, first to open up from covid, how crime figures are down if you ignore this or that crime. Etc. Etc.

    Did you notice Big G how Sunak was laughing when called loan shark chancellor - imagine a Conservative leader with a sense of humour, rather than one all red mist and bluster!
    As has been noted Starmer is turning his attacks on Rishi as it is clear he would have a real fight on his hands with Rishi opposite him at the dispatch box
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    With the new party photo - and after Boris’ so called relaunch - how long will it take MPs to realise this stuff never stops coming out?

    He’ll reshuffle and relaunch, something new appears and we’re back to it. It is constant

    Do you genuinely think that the picture shows a party?
  • As has been noted Starmer is turning his attacks on Rishi as it is clear he would have a real fight on his hands with Rishi opposite him at the dispatch box
    Nah, Rishi is shit, I'm reminded just how bad his budget was in March 2020 when it was clear there was a global pandemic in the offing and he made no preparations for it.

    He's only got the job because he was prepared to be the sub to Dom.

    If Rishi was awesome he would have ousted Boris by now, so there's two possibilities, he's either shit at politics, or he's in the pictures.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    Fuxsake what kind of Conservative are you?

    Here is a photo of the PM stood behind a colleague wearing a party garland sat at a table with an open bottle of plonk on it. It is categorically a work meeting of the kind that we were all having at the time.
    In answer I would say I certainly hope not! Wearing Christmas tinsel as a feather boa is the most naff look, is it not? First rule of dress sense is not to be caught between this or that. The whole nation should be shaken by that photograph. No style sense should = not fit to lead in most peoples opinion.
  • If the Met have expanded their investigations why on earth should they tell the public and to be honest there is a danger that the public will be turned off and frustrated as their real concerns are cost of living crisis
    Sure! Its just that when the PM is someone who endlessly lies and misleads, thinks that the fraud epidemic isn't crime and is making consumers pay more to shore up BP's profits, its all relevant.

    What seems very clear is that he has just lied to the house twice on a single issue in a single session. Has been hauled over the coals for continuing to say crime is falling - a lie. The official statisticians have remonstrated against his lies. He's still lying about it.

    So how can anyone trust him and his government to tackle the cost of living crisis?
  • Talk about death by a thousand cuts. Every reset is going to be hit by another photo, another bit of info. Backbenchers really ought to perform a mercy killing now. Don't make Dom your enemy after employing him.

    At the moment Dom thinks he will be back if Sunak gets the gig. Not so sure.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,629

    Do you genuinely think that the picture shows a party?
    Its the shittest party I've seen and I've been to some pretty bad ones.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    Nah, Rishi is shit, I'm reminded just how bad his budget was in March 2020 when it was clear there was a global pandemic in the offing and he made no preparations for it.

    He's only got the job because he was prepared to be the sub to Dom.

    If Rishi was awesome he would have ousted Boris by now, so there's two possibilities, he's either shit at politics, or he's in the pictures.
    He's in the birthday cake photos with Bozo drinking from a can and Rishi drinking a can of something soft.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    In answer I would say I certainly hope not! Wearing Christmas tinsel as a feather boa is the most naff look, is it not? First rule of dress sense is not to be caught between this or that. The whole nation should be shaken by that photograph. No style sense should = not fit to lead in most peoples opinion.
    I have said before that the Tories should be hounded out of office for their inability to hold a decent shindig. Rubbish activities, style-less clothes and shite drinks.

    Enough.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,673
    edited February 2022
    This morning I was speaking to a Brexiteer who used to worked for the government before the photo emerged, his fear for the Brexit project is that it is difficult to believe but most Leavers weren't hardened Brexiteers but a lot of people who were probably 5/10 or 6/10 in favour of it.

    So everybody Boris Johnson said there were no parties and more evidence emerges that there were parties people know he's lying.

    That impacts every time he says 'Brexit is a success' people now assume he's lying.

    If Brexiteeers think Boris Johnson is damaging the Brexit project then he's out.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,629

    To curtains to what? The door?
    The window. We did all this ages ago - some idiot thought the curtains were a covered up security cam, so evidence of trying to 'hide' a party. I think @Farooq was being cheeky, the little scamp...
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    We demanded 3rd country status. This is 3rd country status.
    But that forgets the fact the people demanding 3rd country status didn't understand what 3rd party status actually looked like, even after they were sent the picture book version.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216

    The window. We did all this ages ago - some idiot thought the curtains were a covered up security cam, so evidence of trying to 'hide' a party. I think @Farooq was being cheeky, the little scamp...
    It was Pesto grade idiocy - remember his inability to understand the effects of modern camera lenses?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Applicant said:

    Correct - Cameron wasn't interested in the electorate making an educated decision, he wanted us to vote to Remain.
    It’s good to be in agreement applicant. First the forced choice, rather than the nuanced options available, and then remainers followed up with a project fear - every household in UK living in poverty and world war three breaking out nonsense.

    Actually, in a couple of months both those might be true.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    This morning I was speaking to a Brexiteer who used to worked for the government before the photo emerged, his fear for the Brexit project is that it is difficult to believe but most Leavers weren't hardened Brexiteers but a lot of people who were probably 5/10 or 6/10 in favour of it.

    So everybody Boris Johnson said there were no parties and more evidence emerges that there were parties people know he's lying.

    That impacts every time he says 'Brexit is a success' people now assume he's lying.

    If Brexiteeers think Boris Johnson is damaging the Brexit project then he's out.

    Most leavers voted for their own personal unicorn version of Brexit - which means all versions of Brexit are probably not what they wanted.

    Boris saying Brexit is a success simply reinforces that they haven't got the Brexit they wanted - I suspect the various lies (no party, Brexit being great) are getting to the point where they reinforce each other.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216
    edited February 2022

    I have said before that the Tories should be hounded out of office for their inability to hold a decent shindig. Rubbish activities, style-less clothes and shite drinks.

    Enough.
    Indeed - you have the Police looking the other way. You have interns man-packing stuff into the building - with a complete bypass of security. You literally have control of the budget. THE BUDGET.

    With that you get a shite wine fridge and some lager?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939

    This morning I was speaking to a Brexiteer who used to worked for the government before the photo emerged, his fear for the Brexit project is that it is difficult to believe but most Leavers weren't hardened Brexiteers but a lot of people who were probably 5/10 or 6/10 in favour of it.

    So everybody Boris Johnson said there were no parties and more evidence emerges that there were parties people know he's lying.

    That impacts every time he says 'Brexit is a success' people now assume he's lying.

    If Brexiteeers think Boris Johnson is damaging the Brexit project then he's out.

    So. If they get someone trusted to say Brexit is a success often enough, then it will be a success?
    Is that what it boils down to?
  • dixiedean said:

    So. If they get someone trusted to say Brexit is a success often enough, then it will be a success?
    Is that what it boils down to?
    Pretty much.

    Right now the public think Boris Johnson lies every time he opens his mouth, so remove him, it won't damage the Brexit project.
  • Nah, Rishi is shit, I'm reminded just how bad his budget was in March 2020 when it was clear there was a global pandemic in the offing and he made no preparations for it.

    He's only got the job because he was prepared to be the sub to Dom.

    If Rishi was awesome he would have ousted Boris by now, so there's two possibilities, he's either shit at politics, or he's in the pictures.
    He is still the Heir (all too) Apparent. That's more due to a lack of realistic alternatives than Sunak's brilliance, as evidenced by sensible people promoting the idea of Tom Tugendhat being catapulted into Number Ten. Surrounding himself with ninnies and lickspittles is part of Johnson's plan to stay in the Big Chair himself.

    So although attacking Sunak could be because the opposition fear him, it could just be that they reckon that Johnson isn't worth attacking any more. And everyone expects Sunak to inherit the top job without really exerting himself.

    Including Sunak himself.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,709

    Hmm. Look at Israel. Govt frequently at whim of extremes. Law of unintended consequences.
    The parlous state of Israeli politics is not because they have PR, but because of the highly fractured nature of Israeli society. If they had FPTP, you would still have a parliament of multiple parties that can agree on little. Arab areas would vote for Arab parties. Tel Aviv would vote for more liberal parties. Settlers in the occupied territories would vote for hardline right-wingers. Religious Jewish areas would vote for religious Jewish parties.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Chin chin, PB. Chin chin


  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939

    Pretty much.

    Right now the public think Boris Johnson lies every time he opens his mouth, so remove him, it won't damage the Brexit project.
    Which is self-evidently a roaring success...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,126
    BoZo assumes the recess gives him respite from dissatisfied MPs

    But it gives an opportunity for plotters to gather...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    What odds did you get?
    40-1 on my PaddyPower account.

    I have learnt from this site I could be getting better political odds on smarkets which I haven’t set up yet. I set up PaddyPower 8 years ago because I was told they were best for horse racing.

    Yet again Harper, in his usual bench like unofficial leader of back bench opposition, got a question to the PM today.

    Was that actually a straight answer from Boris to publish everything from Sue Gray the moment he got it?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,604

    Because I didn't go for US spelling until I had to (guess 5).
    I learned today that foreign language words are acceptable in Wordle.
  • 40-1 on my PaddyPower account.

    I have learnt from this site I could be getting better political odds on smarkets which I haven’t set up yet. I set up PaddyPower 8 years ago because I was told they were best for horse racing.

    Yet again Harper, in his usual bench like unofficial leader of back bench opposition, got a question to the PM today.

    Was that actually a straight answer from Boris to publish everything from Sue Gray the moment he got it?
    Yes and no. He will publish everything he is given. Not that he will publish everything there is to publish. So they can do a heavily redacted report, he will publish and say "thats yer lot plebs"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    Partygate is now so bloody boring. Is anyone - literally anyone (apart from @Scott_xP) excited by that latest photo?

    The damage is done. Boris needs to go. But hurry up this is arse-achingly dull, now
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    40-1 on my PaddyPower account.

    I have learnt from this site I could be getting better political odds on smarkets which I haven’t set up yet. I set up PaddyPower 8 years ago because I was told they were best for horse racing.

    Yet again Harper, in his usual bench like unofficial leader of back bench opposition, got a question to the PM today.

    Was that actually a straight answer from Boris to publish everything from Sue Gray the moment he got it?
    Correction. Definitely on at 40-1 I rechecked, but not a pony, only a lady!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    It was Pesto grade idiocy - remember his inability to understand the effects of modern camera lenses?
    Six words too many.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,604

    It occurs to me that Starmer pressing for a windfall tax on the gas and oil industry is not going to win friends in Scotland when even the SNP oppose it and it is vital to Scotland's economy

    Even though the SNP oppose it, not all Scots work in the oil and gas industry, and Scots are being hit harder by energy costs, due to the colder weather than other parts of the UK. I would suspect the majority of Scots will be in favour of a windfall tax.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,317

    If Conservative MPs don’t oust Boris Johnson after this then I don’t think they ever will.


    I believe they need to wait for the Met enquiry and Gray to report before making a decision on whether that is Boris Johnson or someone who looks a little like Boris Johnson in the picture.
  • Ciudadanos' problem wasn't PR, it was that they moved a long way to the right of their voters.

    The Lib Dems have already found out what happens when you try that and are in no hurry to repeat the experience.
    Especially the Scottish Liberal Democrats.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216
    Sandpit said:

    Six words too many.
    True dat.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    PMQs in two lines pls.

    tia
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,936
    edited February 2022

    The parlous state of Israeli politics is not because they have PR, but because of the highly fractured nature of Israeli society. If they had FPTP, you would still have a parliament of multiple parties that can agree on little. Arab areas would vote for Arab parties. Tel Aviv would vote for more liberal parties. Settlers in the occupied territories would vote for hardline right-wingers. Religious Jewish areas would vote for religious Jewish parties.
    Yes, it would be more like Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland (and London) under FPTP. Regionally dominant parties forming solid blocs of support that rarely flips, and some very very safe seats.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,126
    The economy is now seen by Britons as the most important issue facing the country, jumping 12 points since last week from 45% to 57%

    1. Economy: 57% (+12 from 31st Jan)
    2. Health: 42% (-4)
    3. The environment: 27% (-1)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/economy/articles-reports/2022/02/09/public-criticism-conservatives-handling-economy-co?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=cons_handling_economy https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1491403206806876161/photo/1
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    it’s an absolutely perfect evening here in Colombo. 28C, half an hour after sunset.

    The sky melts from dusty orange to a deep deep blue, languid music drifts across the Laccadive Sea, the coconut palms rustle in the tenderest breeze

    A child plays on the ocean shore, but far away, too far away to hear. The waiter sets down the second dry martini, and turns to look at nothing at all. Candle-light glows
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,126
    Some 64% of the public, and 42% of Con voters, think the government is now handling the economy badly

    All Britons
    Well: 26% (-6 from 31st Jan)
    Badly: 64% (+7)

    Con voters
    Well: 51% (-8)
    Badly: 42% (+8)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/economy/articles-reports/2022/02/09/public-criticism-conservatives-handling-economy-co?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=cons_handling_economy https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1491403212586291200/photo/1
  • Leon said:

    Partygate is now so bloody boring. Is anyone - literally anyone (apart from @Scott_xP) excited by that latest photo?

    The damage is done. Boris needs to go. But hurry up this is arse-achingly dull, now

    Exactly my sentiments
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,029
    edited February 2022

    Yes and no. He will publish everything he is given. Not that he will publish everything there is to publish. So they can do a heavily redacted report, he will publish and say "thats yer lot plebs"
    I expect the key is if he receives a FPN and if FPNs are issued for the flat party

    I just do not see him surviving the minute a FPN has been issued and leaked
  • Even though the SNP oppose it, not all Scots work in the oil and gas industry, and Scots are being hit harder by energy costs, due to the colder weather than other parts of the UK. I would suspect the majority of Scots will be in favour of a windfall tax.
    And the SNP want to shut down the Oil and Gas industry anyway so why woukd they oppose taxing them more in the meantime?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,936

    Exactly my sentiments
    It needs one final, breathtaking revelation, like the last few explosions of a big fireworks display. Cocaine snorting off a downing street official's back, say, or a naked conga.

    Then on to more pressing matters like inflation and falling real wages.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I expect the key is if he receives a FPN and if FPNs are issued for the flat party

    I just do not see him surviving the minute a FPN has been issued and leaked
    Would you expect him to resign if he got a speeding ticket, Big G?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    As one who was a foot soldier in the 1975 campaign, and would have been in the 2016 one, if I could have found anywhere to volunteer, I'm of the opinion that Remain went on the back foot early and never recovered.
    That wasn't the case in 1975.
    Almost no-one asked Leave what they meant by Leave, and when they did the answers were mixed.
    I think you are saying I am right?

    Is it fair to say 75 and 2016 are not the same thing, Oldie? Or the difference should be recognised. How undemocratic surrendering power to EEC was an issue in the 70’s campaign, but EU and questions of federalism and single currency didn’t really take off till the 90’s. So the referendums should have been about two different outcomes (not one, Europe) the discussions should have been different? In fact in 2016 it was no longer a in out question - the smart answer would have been to be guided by the electorate on the type of relationship we wanted with EU for time being - because even out we have a relationship and trade deal with them, only one that’s beginning to look a bit cobbled together in bad faith. And being out, UK still remains in the European social model, do brexiteers have any mandate from the people to move us away from the European model? So much of the 2016 leave campaign seemed to imply we wouldn’t?
  • Leon said:

    Partygate is now so bloody boring. Is anyone - literally anyone (apart from @Scott_xP) excited by that latest photo?

    The damage is done. Boris needs to go. But hurry up this is arse-achingly dull, now

    He's hoping time dilutes the poison.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,939
    Course. He could always produce a false document.
    Fraud not being a crime these days and all.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,604

    And the SNP want to shut down the Oil and Gas industry anyway so why woukd they oppose taxing them more in the meantime?
    Because they’re economically illiterate.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    And the SNP want to shut down the Oil and Gas industry anyway so why woukd they oppose taxing them more in the meantime?
    I'm going to regret this as the Nats descend but WTF do they think their tax revenue is going to come from without oil and gas?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,482
    Leon said:

    If I should die this moment, think only this of me

    There is some corner of some foreign bar, that has a massive unpaid bill

    Try not to intermix that causal chain too much Leon.
  • TOPPING said:

    Would you expect him to resign if he got a speeding ticket, Big G?
    I think the response to that is you cannot be a rule maker and then break your own rules

    It also needs to be viewed in the context of the restrictions on everyone at the time and the fury over the disregard and respect for people
  • He's hoping time dilutes the poison.

    He is far too damaged for time to heal
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,676
    edited February 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Would you expect him to resign if he got a speeding ticket, Big G?
    If he'd issued recent regulations reducing speeding limits to 20mph for everyone in the country? Yes.

    Oh, I'm sorry, you were asking specifically if we would expect BJ to resign? Hell no. :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806

    He's hoping time dilutes the poison.

    It might. This is now being dragged out so long it is in danger of being filed, mentally, by half the population, into OMG JUST SHUT UP I DON”T CARE ANY MORE, and that in turn might lead to a slow uptick in Tory fortunes as everyone sighs and moves on

    If Dom C has clinching material he needs to release it now, I suggest, or the moment will be gone. It may already be gone

    Also, one has to ask what exactly can be worse than anything we have seen? I know Boris is a bit of a lad but I seriously doubt we are going to see photos of him frotting Dilyn the Dog in a Santa hat while doing poppers with 300 topless neo-Fascist Finnish interns, it will just be more of the same slightly-sad-Xmas-party crap

    Publish or be damned. And get a wiggle on
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    I think the response to that is you cannot be a rule maker and then break your own rules

    It also needs to be viewed in the context of the restrictions on everyone at the time and the fury over the disregard and respect for people
    Did he not set the parking laws?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,979
    Listening to "Scary Monsters (and Super Creeps)". Good soundtrack for this period in our lives?

    Much better than I remembered. Fripp's guitar!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    edited February 2022
    TOPPING said:

    PMQs in two lines pls.

    tia

    A good one, strong questions from the opposition benches - Davey on fraudulent crime figures given to the house, BlackFord on Nurses pay being cut by government, this is going to,hurt. Tory front and back benches looking subdued and pensive whilst PM reminded everyone we were first country to unlock from covid and have best growth figures in G7, as his answer to just about everything
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,786

    I believe they need to wait for the Met enquiry and Gray to report before making a decision on whether that is Boris Johnson or someone who looks a little like Boris Johnson in the picture.
    I can't help noticing that there's an 'e' missing off the end of the word on the water bottle on the table in the photo.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Scott_xP said:

    The economy is now seen by Britons as the most important issue facing the country, jumping 12 points since last week from 45% to 57%

    1. Economy: 57% (+12 from 31st Jan)
    2. Health: 42% (-4)
    3. The environment: 27% (-1)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/economy/articles-reports/2022/02/09/public-criticism-conservatives-handling-economy-co?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=cons_handling_economy https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1491403206806876161/photo/1

    It's almost as if the covid crisis coming to an end might not be too good for the government.

    Before I'm accused of being anti-Johnson you might apply the same to the devolved government and foreign ones too.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    If he'd issued recent regulations reducing speeding limits to 20mph for everyone in the country? Yes.

    Oh, I'm sorry, you were asking specifically if we would expect BJ to resign? Hell no. :)
    Thing is because the pandemic is so fresh (and such fresh horror) in our minds we tend to magnify its related elements. There are plenty of times the speed limit changes all over the country on different roads. And arguably if Boris did transgress one of them there would likely be a clamour of support for him because "they are changing all the time".

    Sound familiar?

    Your other point is well made, obvs.
  • TOPPING said:

    Did he not set the parking laws?
    I do not think it is remotely comparable and certainly not in the court of public opinion
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Leon said:

    Very true. London had a critical mass of talent, money, liquidity, culture, universities, rich folk and the rest before Brexit, and it still has that critical mass now

    "Levelling up" is going to be hard for anyone, and I do believe this government - for all its many terrible flaws - is having a sincere go at it
    I don't know what you're basing that belief on. The government can’t 'level up' the country – it’s nonsensical - it can only level, ie help those with less at the expense of those with more. It’s what we badly need but no Tory government, let alone this one, is going to seriously try and do it. So it’s just a slogan like ‘Brexit Opportunities’ is. Slogans are this government’s specialist area. They are genuinely good at coining them – and note how each one is now getting its own ministry. We have a Minister for Leveling Up and we have a Minister for Brexit Opportunities. Next, we’ll see Nadhim Zahawi rebranded as the Minister for Great Schools For All Our Kids and Rishi Sunak will no longer be the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he’ll be the Secretary of State for Low Taxes and Shrewd Spending. It’s very cunning and also very post-truth and sinister. Straight out of Orwell.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,979
    eek said:

    I'm going to regret this as the Nats descend but WTF do they think their tax revenue is going to come from without oil and gas?
    Turnip tax?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    I can't help noticing that there's an 'e' missing off the end of the word on the water bottle on the table in the photo.
    I think it's hand sanitiser, and it's an H not an R... 🙂
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    I think the response to that is you cannot be a rule maker and then break your own rules

    It also needs to be viewed in the context of the restrictions on everyone at the time and the fury over the disregard and respect for people
    Bozo is proving that you can be a rule maker and then break your own rules. Especially when no-one is brave enough to deal with you...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    ydoethur said:

    He's never been a cabinet minister. Closest he came was as Chief Whip 2015-2016. Not tempted.
    You weren’t tempted by my large bet on Libdems in North Shropshire as I recall 🙂
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,786
    edited February 2022

    Do you genuinely think that the picture shows a party?
    1. No, it doesn't look like a party to me either.
    2. It does, however, look like people breaking the very strict lockdown and mixing rules that were in place at the time.
    3. And unless I'm mistaken, the person who imposed those rules on the rest of us is present.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806

    It's almost as if the covid crisis coming to an end might not be too good for the government.

    Before I'm accused of being anti-Johnson you might apply the same to the devolved government and foreign ones too.
    Yes, I wonder what the End of Covid (Deus Vult) will do to, say, Sturgeon’s ratings?

    She cannot resist gravity FOREVER, she’s done amazingly well so far, and she has been helped by being seen as the calm Scottish leader who is more cautious than the mad Tory English, and by those daily Covid pressers.

    Ditto Drakeford, of course

    Take away all that and the Scots might focus on the Scottish economy and health system and schools, and her fundamentalists might notice the lack of any actual referendum
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216
    kinabalu said:

    I don't know what you're basing that belief on. The government can’t 'level up' the country – it’s nonsensical - it can only level, ie help those with less at the expense of those with more. It’s what we badly need but no Tory government, let alone this one, is going to seriously try and do it. So it’s just a slogan like ‘Brexit Opportunities’ is. Slogans are this government’s specialist area. They are genuinely good at coining them – and note how each one is now getting its own ministry. We have a Minister for Leveling Up and we have a Minister for Brexit Opportunities. Next, we’ll see Nadhim Zahawi rebranded as the Minister for Great Schools For All Our Kids and Rishi Sunak will no longer be the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he’ll be the Secretary of State for Low Taxes and Shrewd Spending. It’s very cunning and also very post-truth and sinister. Straight out of Orwell.
    "The government can’t 'level up' the country" - that's what the existing transfer payments from the richer regions of the country to the poorer regions are explicitly designed to do.

    Basic economic spending theory for single currency areas.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,525

    If he'd issued recent regulations reducing speeding limits to 20mph for everyone in the country? Yes.

    Oh, I'm sorry, you were asking specifically if we would expect BJ to resign? Hell no. :)
    A double like for each line of that post.
  • A good one, strong questions from the opposition benches - Davey on fraudulent crime figures given to the house, BlackFord on Nurses pay being cut by government, this is going to,hurt. Tory front and back benches looking subdued and pensive whilst PM reminded everyone we were first country to unlock from covid and have best growth figures in G7, as his answer to just about everything
    The conservative party is imploding in full view and as I said yesterday I am not going to keep beating myself up over Boris going if his mps are content to allow it to continue

    They and the party will pay a huge price and hand Starmer the keys to no 10, with a red ribbon tied on it
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161
    Leon said:

    It might. This is now being dragged out so long it is in danger of being filed, mentally, by half the population, into OMG JUST SHUT UP I DON”T CARE ANY MORE, and that in turn might lead to a slow uptick in Tory fortunes as everyone sighs and moves on

    If Dom C has clinching material he needs to release it now, I suggest, or the moment will be gone. It may already be gone

    Also, one has to ask what exactly can be worse than anything we have seen? I know Boris is a bit of a lad but I seriously doubt we are going to see photos of him frotting Dilyn the Dog in a Santa hat while doing poppers with 300 topless neo-Fascist Finnish interns, it will just be more of the same slightly-sad-Xmas-party crap

    Publish or be damned. And get a wiggle on
    What could be worse?

    We'd find out that Johnson isn't paid directly for being PM, but via a service company so that he can avoid NI.

    Although the word is that he's too lazy to arrange such tax avoidance arrangements.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,936
    Scott_xP said:

    The economy is now seen by Britons as the most important issue facing the country, jumping 12 points since last week from 45% to 57%

    1. Economy: 57% (+12 from 31st Jan)
    2. Health: 42% (-4)
    3. The environment: 27% (-1)

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/economy/articles-reports/2022/02/09/public-criticism-conservatives-handling-economy-co?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=cons_handling_economy https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1491403206806876161/photo/1

    Whilst the environment is well below the other 2, it's notable that it is in the top 3 of issues being quoted. Interesting also how it grew in the weeks leading up to CoP26. 10 years ago that would never have been the case. It would be floundering down below crime, immigration and foreign policy.

    I don't think the main 2 parties have fully clocked on to how much more salient it is as a topic now. I don't think it's all about climate change either. People really notice plastic waste in the environment now, and they also worry loudly about polluted watercourses and seas, air pollution, light and noise pollution, biodiversity and habitat loss.

    Unless you're in a situation where making ends meet and feeding the household are a struggle, there are few things that have a bigger impact on happiness and wellbeing than the state of your surroundings and the health of the air and water around you.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,482

    If he'd issued recent regulations reducing speeding limits to 20mph for everyone in the country? Yes.

    Oh, I'm sorry, you were asking specifically if we would expect BJ to resign? Hell no. :)
    So long as a legislator has the same penalties applied as everyone else then I can't see there's a resigning issue.

    It's the getting away with it (or the thoughts that you might) that's the issue. I doubt many people have reported themselves for speeding fines.

    It's a huge political issue of course.

    Boris can just about survive penalties at the very low end. However he'll be hanging on in an undignified way. Far, far better - for him and for us - if he chooses a way out now.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,806
    kinabalu said:

    I don't know what you're basing that belief on. The government can’t 'level up' the country – it’s nonsensical - it can only level, ie help those with less at the expense of those with more. It’s what we badly need but no Tory government, let alone this one, is going to seriously try and do it. So it’s just a slogan like ‘Brexit Opportunities’ is. Slogans are this government’s specialist area. They are genuinely good at coining them – and note how each one is now getting its own ministry. We have a Minister for Leveling Up and we have a Minister for Brexit Opportunities. Next, we’ll see Nadhim Zahawi rebranded as the Minister for Great Schools For All Our Kids and Rishi Sunak will no longer be the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he’ll be the Secretary of State for Low Taxes and Shrewd Spending. It’s very cunning and also very post-truth and sinister. Straight out of Orwell.
    i agree much of this is bollocks. Minister for Brexit Opportunities my arse. It’s like the Hari Krishna Party having a Minister for Global Peace

    There will be Brexit positives, but it doesn’t need a minister to “make them happen”

    However I saw Gove being interviewed quite intensely on his Levelling Up Agenda, and he was pretty plausible. And I’ve read some close analyses of it, not by people always friendly to the Tories. It is not entirely vacuous. There are proper aspirations and genuine changes

    Don’t ask me what they are tho, I am about to order my 3rd martini. They make them really well here*

    *The Galle Face Hotel


    https://gallefacehotel.com

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,786
    Applicant said:

    I think it's hand sanitiser, and it's an H not an R... 🙂
    Not sure my whimsical post merited a response. But thanks for reminding me that I need to collect some new glasses this afternoon.
  • Leon said:

    Partygate is now so bloody boring. Is anyone - literally anyone (apart from @Scott_xP) excited by that latest photo?

    The damage is done. Boris needs to go. But hurry up this is arse-achingly dull, now

    I think the strategy is clear: destroy him very slowly until he looks so completely weak and ineffectual that even right wing believers in Brexit, think that he should go. It is clearly working. Unedifying sure, but he doesnt look in any better position today than he did last week. My prediction of VONC w/c 21st Feb looking quite likely.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    What could be worse?

    We'd find out that Johnson isn't paid directly for being PM, but via a service company so that he can avoid NI.

    Although the word is that he's too lazy to arrange such tax avoidance arrangements.
    If he was working only for the government, he’d be judged to be inside IR35 and have to pay two two lots of NI.

    Yes, he published his tax return when challenged by Ken Livingstone in the mayor race - Boris was working as an MP and on the side as a sole trader, paying the full 40% income tax on every penny he was paid for journalist or speaking work. Ken, on the other hand, had a limited company and generous expenses.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    Cor blimey that's a lot of money to invest in anything as fallible as human judgment. I was greatly cheered yesterday to receive a note from Betfair that their minimum stake had been reduced from £2 to £1. That's twice as much fun watching my money disappear half as quickly.
    I miss typed - I have placed a mere lady down. Sorry. 😔. Which is a small bet from me. But I placed larger amount on Javid 14-1 last year so I have two bets in same race. Though I havn’t backed Harper hunch with big money, I still stand by my analysis he seems to be chosen front man for the group who backed Boris, will be a runner whenever it comes, and could get on a roll.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    So PMQs was pretty boring then?

    You really do get the impression thie party story has run out of legs. Everyone knows he lied about it. It is a negative on the balance sheet. But how big a negative will vary according to taste. No doubt it will have a revival at some point when he lies about something else. Right now Boris is damaged but he is regaining control by the day.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    TOPPING said:

    Did he not set the parking laws?
    Lol - You are stood on a valid pinhead there but context is all in this matter as you well know.
  • Gary_BurtonGary_Burton Posts: 737
    edited February 2022
    HYUFD said:

    I cannot say I have ever been to a party with no music, 3 people and 1 person looking at his laptop.

    That just looks like Christmas in any office
    I'm not sure what the big deal is with the Downing Street stuff, at least in terms of people drinking in Downing St. (and presumably Sunak is implicated too?), I think we would need to see pictures of Johnson attending a large party outside of Downing St.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161
    TimS said:

    Whilst the environment is well below the other 2, it's notable that it is in the top 3 of issues being quoted. Interesting also how it grew in the weeks leading up to CoP26. 10 years ago that would never have been the case. It would be floundering down below crime, immigration and foreign policy.

    I don't think the main 2 parties have fully clocked on to how much more salient it is as a topic now. I don't think it's all about climate change either. People really notice plastic waste in the environment now, and they also worry loudly about polluted watercourses and seas, air pollution, light and noise pollution, biodiversity and habitat loss.

    Unless you're in a situation where making ends meet and feeding the household are a struggle, there are few things that have a bigger impact on happiness and wellbeing than the state of your surroundings and the health of the air and water around you.
    Sometimes particularly when you're struggling to make ends meet the local environment can be particularly important. If you can't afford much in the way of toys/entertainment for children at home, then you're more likely to want to take the kids out to the local park for a bit of respite.

    You don't have the finances to curate a safe space for your children away from all the crap dumped in your local area. Public, communal areas are all the more important, and if they're polluted it's all the more noticeable.
  • DavidL said:

    So PMQs was pretty boring then?

    You really do get the impression thie party story has run out of legs. Everyone knows he lied about it. It is a negative on the balance sheet. But how big a negative will vary according to taste. No doubt it will have a revival at some point when he lies about something else. Right now Boris is damaged but he is regaining control by the day.

    I don't see him regaining any control. He looks like a (politically) dead man walking.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,216
    Sandpit said:

    If he was working only for the government, he’d be judged to be inside IR35 and have to pay two two lots of NI.

    Yes, he published his tax return when challenged by Ken Livingstone in the mayor race - Boris was working as an MP and on the side as a sole trader, paying the full 40% income tax on every penny he was paid for journalist or speaking work. Ken, on the other hand, had a limited company and generous expenses.
    The interesting one about that was he had set up that structure for paying the full 40% tax on his Telegraph earnings etc *before* the Expense scandal.

    He must have paid an extra 7 figures in tax over the years, just to setup an elephant trap for an opponent.

    No-one else in politics does this - and it must have been deliberately done with the Telegraph. Since no-one else deliberately pays the 40%, that would have taken special arrangements.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,936

    Sometimes particularly when you're struggling to make ends meet the local environment can be particularly important. If you can't afford much in the way of toys/entertainment for children at home, then you're more likely to want to take the kids out to the local park for a bit of respite.

    You don't have the finances to curate a safe space for your children away from all the crap dumped in your local area. Public, communal areas are all the more important, and if they're polluted it's all the more noticeable.
    That's a good point. Your kids are also likely to be most at risk of asthma from local air pollution. Particularly around here where there's a mix of wealthy and very poor in close proximity. The poorest units are generally close to the traffic clogged main roads while the more expensive housing is tucked away on leafy avenues.
This discussion has been closed.