Johnson could face VONC “in days” – Daily Mail – politicalbetting.com

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Johnson could face VONC “in days” – Daily Mail – politicalbetting.com

Like many PBers I am completely unable to forecast what is going to happen to Boris Johnson in the next week or so. This is currently the biggest UK political betting market and unusually for me I have not been confident enough to have a punt either way.

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

Nah.

I could potentially have a hot date with Christina Hendricks this weekend but it is unlikely to happen.

edmundintokyo

Two problems with this: Firstly it's the Daily Mail, and secondly the headline contains the word "could", which is newspaper language for "this article contains no information and may as well not exist".

TheScreamingEagles

That said, right now there's two former Tory chief whips gunning for Boris Johnson, as Dave (pbuh) said, never piss off an ex chief whip.

This gives me hope.

CarlottaVance

NEWS | Britain is to supply anti-ship weaponry to Ukraine to counter the Russian Navy in the Black and Azov Seas, Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK Vadim Prystaiko has said…..

…. "For the first time, our Armed Forces, in particular the Navy, will receive real weapons, missiles, which will finally allow us to oppose something to the Russians in the Black and Azov Seas", said Vadym Prystaiko in an interview with Radio Novoye Vremya.

https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1491336415367798785?s=21

TheScreamingEagles

There's only one person who knows the number of letters in and he's famously discreet.

DavidL

Preumably "sway" rather than "away"?

I don't think John Major has any particular influence anymore.

WhisperingOracle

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this eventually, I think.

CarlottaVance

UK proposal for age checks on the Web an absolutely classic Public Policy Disaster in the making. It likely won't happen, and if it does the plug will be pulled quickly when first failures hit. Good source for books and articles on what not to do though.

https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1491339500911759361?s=20&t=Vq0NcP84nbJ4t14M_hSqpA

Nigelb

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nah.

I could potentially have a hot date with Christina Hendricks this weekend but it is unlikely to happen.

According to IMDB she has filed for divorce, so don't give up hope.

TheScreamingEagles

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nah.

I could potentially have a hot date with Christina Hendricks this weekend but it is unlikely to happen.

According to IMDB she has filed for divorce, so don't give up hope.

Yup, her first husband is a chap of Pakistani heritage.

Leon

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Burgessian

DavidL said:

Preumably "sway" rather than "away"?

I don't think John Major has any particular influence anymore.

I think you're right. He took a very strong line over Brexit so views will probably be dismissed. Nevertheless keeps the pot bubbling.

Theuniondivvie

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this, eventually, I think.

If only people had been warning for the last 20 years that BJ wasn't a serious, engaged politicians whose only sense of purpose was the greater glory of BJ.

The Tories are Raith Rovers, except Raith Rovers realised they'd fcuked up almost immediately.

TheScreamingEagles

For reference, from June 2013.

Tory Rebel Says At Least 30 MPs Have Called For No Confidence Vote In David Cameron.....

....So, how long till the 'magic 46' is reached? A recent YouGov poll for the Sun put the Tories on 29%, 13 points behind Labour. The senior Conservative backbencher told HuffPost UK that the number could reach 46 and force a no confidence vote if "post the party conference [in October], we are still [polling] in the 20s." But the Tory rebel also added a disclaimer: "We are talking about MPs here. Labour MPs walked wide-eyed into defeat with Gordon Brown."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/31/rebel-mp-tory-david-cameron-confidence-_n_3364562.html

Unpopular

I wonder if this is the Mail reminding Tory MPs that BJ need not be safe just because he's limped to the recess, and there is still scope for them to act?

StillWaters

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this eventually, I think.

As I read it he gave money to Frank Field rather than labour

MattW

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nah.

I could potentially have a hot date with Christina Hendricks this weekend but it is unlikely to happen.

According to IMDB she has filed for divorce, so don't give up hope.

Yup, her first husband is a chap of Pakistani heritage.

Yes Cinders, you *shall* go to the cinema.

TheScreamingEagles

Like an STD, Boris Johnson is here to stay.

[Boris Johnson's] allies have said he will not resign even if he is fined by police for breaching lockdown rules by attending Downing Street parties.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cabinet-reshuffle-jacob-rees-mogg-given-brexit-job-9ncmd9563

MikeSmithson

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nah.

I could potentially have a hot date with Christina Hendricks this weekend but it is unlikely to happen.

According to IMDB she has filed for divorce, so don't give up hope.

Yep. But it is TSE we are talking about here

MattW

CarlottaVance said:

UK proposal for age checks on the Web an absolutely classic Public Policy Disaster in the making. It likely won't happen, and if it does the plug will be pulled quickly when first failures hit. Good source for books and articles on what not to do though.

https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1491339500911759361?s=20&t=Vq0NcP84nbJ4t14M_hSqpA

Perhaps it will go down in history as part of Boris's final life raft.

Which sunk.

WhisperingOracle

Theuniondivvie said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this, eventually, I think.

If only people had been warning for the last 20 years that BJ wasn't a serious, engaged politicians whose only sense of purpose was the greater glory of BJ.

The Tories are Raith Rovers, except Raith Rovers realised they'd fcuked up almost immediately.

Indeed.

What seems to have *happened* over the last few weeks, incidentally, it should say there.

Leon

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Chris

Isn't that just the Mail trying to make a story out of the fact that they've looked up the rules about the VONC procedure?

Malmesbury

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

WhisperingOracle

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

No more anti-democratic than Vote Leave founder Daniel Hannan, I would say, still bizarrely claiming to have been pursuing a Soft Brexit all along.

Burgessian

Theuniondivvie said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this, eventually, I think.

If only people had been warning for the last 20 years that BJ wasn't a serious, engaged politicians whose only sense of purpose was the greater glory of BJ.

The Tories are Raith Rovers, except Raith Rovers realised they'd fcuked up almost immediately.

No, not really. BJ is actually remarkably talented in some ways. He screwed up because of a failure to have a decent chief of staff to manage the office, and over-confidence leading to the Paterson debacle. And falling out with Dom. None of that was inevitable. Plenty of PMs have been pretty chaotic but not crashed and burned so quickly. But we are where we are.

(Likewise, I guess many people in the SNP, who knew what Salmond was really like, must have wondered when he would topple over the cliff edge.)

CarlottaVance

MattW said:

CarlottaVance said:

UK proposal for age checks on the Web an absolutely classic Public Policy Disaster in the making. It likely won't happen, and if it does the plug will be pulled quickly when first failures hit. Good source for books and articles on what not to do though.

https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1491339500911759361?s=20&t=Vq0NcP84nbJ4t14M_hSqpA

Perhaps it will go down in history as part of Boris's final life raft.

Which sunk.

I would like to believe in EiT’s theory that the government secretly has a plan to create a cohort of computer hackers by putting barriers between teenage boys and porn, but fear ignorance and incompetence are far more plausible reasons.

Sandpit

TheScreamingEagles said:

That said, right now there's two former Tory chief whips gunning for Boris Johnson, as Dave (pbuh) said, never piss off an ex chief whip.

This gives me hope.

Chief whips, or chiefs whip?

Theuniondivvie

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

Nigelb

Anti-China sentiment emerges as new variable in presidential election
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2022/02/356_323613.html
...Anti-China sentiment among Koreans was stoked by China's economic retaliation against Korea's deployment of a U.S. Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile defense system and Beijing's nationalism initiative known as the Northeast Project aimed at incorporating the histories of other East Asian countries into China's own history.

But the recent controversies surrounding the judgments at the Bejing Olympics coincide with Korea's next presidential election which is just about a month away.

Resentment against China has especially been growing in online communities after short track speedskaters Hwang Dae-heon and Lee June-seo were disqualified in the men's 1,000m semifinals, Monday, for violating regulations during their races. But most Koreans believe such judgments were intentionally made in favor of China and cannot be tolerated....

LostPassword

edmundintokyo said:

Two problems with this: Firstly it's the Daily Mail, and secondly the headline contains the word "could", which is newspaper language for "this article contains no information and may as well not exist".

The only significance in this article is that it wasn't a remotely credible article that they could run until after the Paterson debacle.

We will know that the danger has definitively passed for Johnson when we go a week or two without a newspaper dusting off the Graham Brady Letters story.

If that point isn't reached until quite close to the general election then that would seem bad for the Tories.

WhisperingOracle

Burgessian said:

Theuniondivvie said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this, eventually, I think.

If only people had been warning for the last 20 years that BJ wasn't a serious, engaged politicians whose only sense of purpose was the greater glory of BJ.

The Tories are Raith Rovers, except Raith Rovers realised they'd fcuked up almost immediately.

No, not really. BJ is actually remarkably talented in some ways. He screwed up because of a failure to have a decent chief of staff to manage the office, and over-confidence leading to the Paterson debacle. And falling out with Dom. None of that was inevitable. Plenty of PMs have been pretty chaotic but not crashed and burned so quickly. But we are where we are.

(Likewise, I guess many people in the SNP, who knew what Salmond was really like, must have wondered when he would topple over the cliff edge.)

I don't think he has the talents to manage without delegating very, very substantially. That was proven in City Hall, and again with the departure of Dom.

Leon

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

TOPPING

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

WhisperingOracle

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

A number of them wanted a second vote exactly so because they thought the first vote wasn't been enacted in the first place, however. May was spinning off in a crazy no-deal direction, let alone a much harder Brexit than advertised, when the 2nd vote campaign got underway.

another_richard

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

John Major was truly the king of the hypocrites.

There were no free votes or referendum on his precious Maastricht treaty.

And then there was his affair with Edwina Currie contrasted with his 'back to basics' morality drive.

Leon

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

HYUFD

Major has always hated Boris so nothing new. He backed Hunt in 2019.

Theuniondivvie

Burgessian said:

Theuniondivvie said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this, eventually, I think.

If only people had been warning for the last 20 years that BJ wasn't a serious, engaged politicians whose only sense of purpose was the greater glory of BJ.

The Tories are Raith Rovers, except Raith Rovers realised they'd fcuked up almost immediately.

No, not really. BJ is actually remarkably talented in some ways. He screwed up because of a failure to have a decent chief of staff to manage the office, and over-confidence leading to the Paterson debacle. And falling out with Dom. None of that was inevitable. Plenty of PMs have been pretty chaotic but not crashed and burned so quickly. But we are where we are.

(Likewise, I guess many people in the SNP, who knew what Salmond was really like, must have wondered when he would topple over the cliff edge.)

What serious, engaged political achievements do you think BJ can claim, and what good do you think he's done for the country?

Before you say getting Brexit done, keep in mind a clear majority of UK voters think leaving the EU was wrong and a stonking majority of voters in your own country think it's a complete binfire.

Morris_Dancer

Ah, 'could'.

I could open my bedroom door and find Olivia Wilde and Jennifer Morrison pillow-fighting over which one of them gets to sleep with me.

Leon

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

John Major was truly the king of the hypocrites.

There were no free votes or referendum on his precious Maastricht treaty.

And then there was his affair with Edwina Currie contrasted with his 'back to basics' morality drive.

I find Major an utterly repulsive figure, his canting lies about Europe are one reason we ended up where we did, as you say

There are a zillion reasons to dump Boris, and I think he should be dumped, but the opinion of John bloody Major is not one of them

Sandpit

CarlottaVance said:

MattW said:

CarlottaVance said:

UK proposal for age checks on the Web an absolutely classic Public Policy Disaster in the making. It likely won't happen, and if it does the plug will be pulled quickly when first failures hit. Good source for books and articles on what not to do though.

https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1491339500911759361?s=20&t=Vq0NcP84nbJ4t14M_hSqpA

Perhaps it will go down in history as part of Boris's final life raft.

Which sunk.

I would like to believe in EiT’s theory that the government secretly has a plan to create a cohort of computer hackers by putting barriers between teenage boys and porn, but fear ignorance and incompetence are far more plausible reasons.

It’s the start of the civil service dream, to expand the Cleanfeed system to be a proper nationwide internet proxy server, blocking unpopular (with them) websites, recording who goes where online.

It keeps coming up every time there’s a new HS or Culture Sec, and keeps getting bashed down because it’s completely unworkable, and anyone proposing it doesn’t understand how teenage boys behave.

Great for teaching the next generations about state-level surveillance, VPN, proxy servers, DNS servers and online privacy though.

tlg86

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

John Major was truly the king of the hypocrites.

There were no free votes or referendum on his precious Maastricht treaty.

And then there was his affair with Edwina Currie contrasted with his 'back to basics' morality drive.

He also prorogued parliament. Even full fact couldn't argue with that one...

https://fullfact.org/online/john-major-proroguing/

MarqueeMark

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

How much of that investment in the UK is going into Scotland?

dixiedean

Is a fulsome apology the new Sacrament of Penance?

Selebian

Thoughts on this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60316048
"Gillian Keegan: Minister sorry for not ending visit after Covid result"

I think my only criticism would be that if you'e going to do an LFT for a meeting you should organise yourself with enough time to get the result before you start the meeting. If the agreement was that everyone would test before the meeting then she should certainly have made sure she had the result.

Given she was apparently in the meeting when the result came through (no detail, but I guess she swabbed just before meeting and handed swab to a flunkey who then did actual test and then alerted her to the positive) then alerting those present seems sufficient to me, assuming they'd been together for a non-trivial period. There is a degree of increased risk from prolonging potential exposure, but not that much. I think I'd have probably done the same (although I'd have completed the test before the meeting started). The only criticism would be if she'd literally just sat down when the test came in - if her actions made exposure ten times longer than if she'd left straight away then it was a bit daft. If they made it 10% longer then no big deal.

At some point, of course, we need to stop testing, except for contact with high vulnerability individuals.

Also, she's apologised, explained (to an extent) what happened and said she got it wrong. That's probably the end of the matter. Lesson there for Johnson?

BlancheLivermore

Whatever the generation that's kids now is called, should be renamed the Genderation.

No_Offence_Alan

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

You implement the result of the first one first.
An MP gets elected to parliament for 5 years - only after that period can the electors change their minds.

TOPPING

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

No you don't. You are asking the same people so it's perfectly democratic. Hugely impractical but perfectly democratic.

Theuniondivvie

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

How much of that investment in the UK is going into Scotland?

My manhood is so magnificent I don't care.

another_richard

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

MarqueeMark

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

How much of that investment in the UK is going into Scotland?

My manhood is so magnificent I don't care.

A fact unverified because nobody else cares to check it.....

MattW

CarlottaVance said:

NEWS | Britain is to supply anti-ship weaponry to Ukraine to counter the Russian Navy in the Black and Azov Seas, Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK Vadim Prystaiko has said…..

…. "For the first time, our Armed Forces, in particular the Navy, will receive real weapons, missiles, which will finally allow us to oppose something to the Russians in the Black and Azov Seas", said Vadym Prystaiko in an interview with Radio Novoye Vremya.

https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1491336415367798785?s=21

That needs careful parsing.

There's a long term deal to supply patrol vessels etc; it is not clear what capability if any will be delivered in time for the current crisis. It may be the case.

MrEd

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

Ah yes, but that is ok because he is on the "right" side of the debate.

In the next GE campaign, the Conservatives should really use a Grayling quote a day in their campaign to highlight what would happen if the Conservatives lost.

TOPPING

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

You banana it's not "overturning" the election result if it is by means of another election. Or rather it is but that's the way it's supposed to work. The 2019 GE overturned the 2017 GE. The 2017 GE overturned the 2015 GE, usw.

Heathener

Does John Major really have that much influence?

Dura_Ace

CarlottaVance said:

NEWS | Britain is to supply anti-ship weaponry to Ukraine to counter the Russian Navy in the Black and Azov Seas, Ukrainian Ambassador to the UK Vadim Prystaiko has said…..

…. "For the first time, our Armed Forces, in particular the Navy, will receive real weapons, missiles, which will finally allow us to oppose something to the Russians in the Black and Azov Seas", said Vadym Prystaiko in an interview with Radio Novoye Vremya.

https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1491336415367798785?s=21

This isn't news, it's just the usual cynical MoD re-announcement of something that's already happened. In this case it refers to June 2021 Sandown SRMH deal. Nothing will be delivered until the end of 2024. If it all runs to schedule; which it won't.

The UK and USA are supplying Ukraine with weapons (short range ATGMs) that will be useful after Ukraine has already lost and are resisting an occupation. They are useless at deterring or defending against a Russian invasion.

Western forces use long range fires to enable decisive maneuvers and the Russians do the opposite. Battles are decided by long range fires which create situations for opportunistic maneuver.

In 2014 the Ukrainians got absolutely hammered by UAV cued and EW supported overlapping long range fires. Nothing that the UK or US are providing helps against EW, UAVs or provides counter-battery fire.

OldKingCole

HYUFD said:

Major has always hated Boris so nothing new. He backed Hunt in 2019.

Major does have an ability to see things how they are.

MrEd

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

You banana it's not "overturning" the election result if it is by means of another election. Or rather it is but that's the way it's supposed to work. The 2019 GE overturned the 2017 GE. The 2017 GE overturned the 2015 GE, usw.

Grayling specifically said "voided". What explanation do you think he meant except to say the result should be voided?

eek

On topic

Bozo won't face a VONC until at least Feb 22nd. There is no way any MP is going to support a proxy vote on this unless the 1922 Committee want to do things a way that guarantees a Bozo win.

Whoever said things would happen on the 21st is correct on one level simply because unless things kick off today they can't happen before then.

IanB2

Andrew Pierce did an 'expose' of the alleged failed plot to change the leadership election rules, fomented at a shooting afternoon attended by some rebels and members of the '22 committee. AIR it suggested Brady may have been present, which puts an interesting spin on things.

Sandpit

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

Ah, AC Grayling, the man driven so completely mad by the decision to leave the EU, that he thinks only the good people like himself should choose the government. The plebs don’t deserve the vote, if they will keep voting the wrong way.

NerysHughes

TheScreamingEagles said:

For reference, from June 2013.

Tory Rebel Says At Least 30 MPs Have Called For No Confidence Vote In David Cameron.....

....So, how long till the 'magic 46' is reached? A recent YouGov poll for the Sun put the Tories on 29%, 13 points behind Labour. The senior Conservative backbencher told HuffPost UK that the number could reach 46 and force a no confidence vote if "post the party conference [in October], we are still [polling] in the 20s." But the Tory rebel also added a disclaimer: "We are talking about MPs here. Labour MPs walked wide-eyed into defeat with Gordon Brown."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/31/rebel-mp-tory-david-cameron-confidence-_n_3364562.html

You would have thought reading this site over the past weeks that this Parliament was the first time that the Governing party was behind in the polls mid term. It was remarkable that they stayed ahead in the polls for so long.
People have very short memories of what normally happens.

Thats why the local by-election results were so weird last week, what normally happens is the main opposition party makes big gains in its vote share.

MrEd

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

How much of that investment in the UK is going into Scotland?

My manhood is so magnificent I don't care.

A fact unverified because nobody else cares to check it.....

Theunion is probably likely Irvine Welsh's copper character in "Filth" where he puts the photocopying magnifier on x3 as he copies his manhood. Divvie is probably warming up the photocopier as we speak

Heathener

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

I am truly baffled how anyone is still going on about the Brexit vote.

I campaigned for Remain but I haven't spent my time since wallowing in the result.

It's so bizarre how obsessed some Brexiteers STILL are with this. What is wrong with you? Do you actually, deep down, know it was wrong or something?

Leon

Oh dear, oh dear

That lovely Captain Tom Moore thing is unravelling at ultra high speed


"The whole of that quote from Captain Tom's daughter is even funnier, she says she was worried about her financial future at the start of the pandemic and then she shoved her dad out in the garden and then, completely unrelated!, they were miraculously fine financially"

https://twitter.com/JoeStephenson96/status/1491029989411606528?s=20&t=Q6JaAlXy_DIKaB6GvnJBOA


"Look, granddad can't have his 100th birthday party"


"I know, let's chuck him out in the garden and make him walk round and round and we'll give him £1 a lap, that will make up for not having a party"

"Yes"

And this:


"Captain Tom charity paid thousands to daughter’s firm set up days before foundation established

"Watchdog opened regulatory compliance case into the Captain Tom Foundation last year"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/captain-tom-foundation-charity-daughter-firm-b2010904.html

Malmesbury

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

I would actually have had some sympathy for that point of view - before BREXIT actually happened.

Except that BREXIT has happened. What is happening now is the long tail seen after any such massive change in trading/legal structures.

Otherwise holding a second referendum would never be allowed?

OldKingCole

MrEd said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

You banana it's not "overturning" the election result if it is by means of another election. Or rather it is but that's the way it's supposed to work. The 2019 GE overturned the 2017 GE. The 2017 GE overturned the 2015 GE, usw.

Grayling specifically said "voided". What explanation do you think he meant except to say the result should be voided?

Well, we still don't know what at least 2/3 of the Brexiteers wanted from 'Brexit'. Or whether they've got it.

MarqueeMark

Morris_Dancer said:

Ah, 'could'.

I could open my bedroom door and find Olivia Wilde and Jennifer Morrison pillow-fighting over which one of them gets to sleep with me.

I'm sure you are magnanimous enough to say "Ladies, no need to fight....you both can."

TOPPING

MrEd said:

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

You banana it's not "overturning" the election result if it is by means of another election. Or rather it is but that's the way it's supposed to work. The 2019 GE overturned the 2017 GE. The 2017 GE overturned the 2015 GE, usw.

Grayling specifically said "voided". What explanation do you think he meant except to say the result should be voided?

Oh yes voided would be bad without legitimate reasons (proven fraud, etc). If someone genuinely suspects electoral fraud they should make their case and have it investigated if necessary. He himself says "mere speculation" after all.

Nigelb

WhisperingOracle said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

A number of them wanted to cancel the first vote exactly so because they thought the first vote wasn't been enacted, though. May was spinning off in a crazy no-deal direction, let alone a much harder Brexit than advertised, when the 2nd vote campaign got underway.

Are we rehashing this all over again ?
That argument was in a Parliament elected after the Brexit vote, so whatever you think of the merits, to call it undemocratic is the usual @Leon hyperbolic nonsense.

Big_G_NorthWales

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Major has always hated Boris so nothing new. He backed Hunt in 2019.

Major does have an ability to see things how they are.

Rather how he sees them

Other opinions are available

Nigelb

MikeSmithson said:

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nah.

I could potentially have a hot date with Christina Hendricks this weekend but it is unlikely to happen.

According to IMDB she has filed for divorce, so don't give up hope.

Yep. But it is TSE we are talking about here

But who could resist such remarkable dress sense ?

IanB2

HYUFD said:

Major has always hated Boris so nothing new. He backed Hunt in 2019.

Whether there is anything new rather depends on what he has to say.

May has effectively called for the clown to go, and IDS has come pretty close. Maybe somebody should give Cammo and Hague a ring?

Applicant

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

No you don't. You are asking the same people so it's perfectly democratic. Hugely impractical but perfectly democratic.

Telling people "you can have a vote but if you give the wrong answer we'll make you vote again and again until you get it right" is "perfectly democratic"? OK then.

Theuniondivvie

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

How much of that investment in the UK is going into Scotland?

My manhood is so magnificent I don't care.

A fact unverified because nobody else cares to check it.....

I have a vision of a group (an enragement?) of Brexiteers anxiously checking each others nether regions asking if it's big enough. Thankfully they're all similarly endowed so they don't realise.

NickPalmer

No_Offence_Alan said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

You implement the result of the first one first.
An MP gets elected to parliament for 5 years - only after that period can the electors change their minds.

How many years do you reckon we should give Brexit before it's deemed to be as "implemented" as it will ever be? 5, like Parliament? 20, like the Scottish "generation"? Forever, while we wait for the illusory benefits of splendid isolation to arrive? Remainers should not be hostages indefinitely to the inability of Brexiteers to achieve the promised nirvana.

I'm not personally in favour of an early revote, and think that the most likely future is a Labour government settling for customs union/EFTA, but there is nothing in the least undemocratic about people who disagree arguing their case even 1 day after losing a vote. Democracy, innit.

Malmesbury

Sandpit said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

Ah, AC Grayling, the man driven so completely mad by the decision to leave the EU, that he thinks only the good people like himself should choose the government. The plebs don’t deserve the vote, if they will keep voting the wrong way.

There is even a read made political party for such people - Optimates.

All it needs is the recognition that what they don't like is the Head Count voting on anything important. Keep the courts and the coinage. Let the rabble have the rest....

geoffw

Fat pang Patten the other day, now Major. So when Heseltine inveighs tomorrow we'll have a full house.

LostPassword

Theuniondivvie said:

Burgessian said:

Theuniondivvie said:

WhisperingOracle said:

FPT, just now :

Burgessian said:

This is telling. Even if Armitage is a billionaire, he explains why so many rank-and-file Tory members, who are more detached from the minutia of the politicking than the MPs, want Boris gone. They join, basically, out of a sense of patriotism. Not to help any particular politician get up the greasy pole. The MPs need to step back, look objectively at where we are, and do the necessary.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/09/billionaire-tory-donor-john-armitage-calls-for-boris-johnson-to-resign

Armitage told the BBC global challenges to the west required ‘‘very serious, engaged politicians with a sense of purpose”.

“Politicians should go into politics to do good for their country,” he added.

“That is the overwhelming reason to be in politics. I don’t think it’s about your own personal sense of getting to the top of a snakes-and-ladders game.”

I agree with this, although I also note he's given money to Labour more recently, too.

What seems to have over the last few weeks is that the short-term ambitions of both the Prime Minister and the group of loyalists who most depend on him for their careers, has begun to become fundamentally unmoored from the views and wishes of most of the public, including many Tory voters.

If the Tories don't realise that that's what's happening , they'll a pay a much heavier price for this, eventually, I think.

If only people had been warning for the last 20 years that BJ wasn't a serious, engaged politicians whose only sense of purpose was the greater glory of BJ.

The Tories are Raith Rovers, except Raith Rovers realised they'd fcuked up almost immediately.

No, not really. BJ is actually remarkably talented in some ways. He screwed up because of a failure to have a decent chief of staff to manage the office, and over-confidence leading to the Paterson debacle. And falling out with Dom. None of that was inevitable. Plenty of PMs have been pretty chaotic but not crashed and burned so quickly. But we are where we are.

(Likewise, I guess many people in the SNP, who knew what Salmond was really like, must have wondered when he would topple over the cliff edge.)

What serious, engaged political achievements do you think BJ can claim, and what good do you think he's done for the country?

Before you say getting Brexit done, keep in mind a clear majority of UK voters think leaving the EU was wrong and a stonking majority of voters in your own country think it's a complete binfire.

As London Mayor Johnson provided backing to his cycling commissioner and managed to make a large improvement in cycling infrastructure, actual useful infrastructure as opposed to painted lines and the ludicrous things that get ridiculed from councils elsewhere.

It demonstrated that, where he is only involved to the extent of supporting a capable underling, he can get things done in a way that many other politicians don't manage, even when those politicians appear superficially more capable (because they can talk coherently).

This is essentially what happened with vaccine procurement too.

It's not a great endorsement, I grant you, but the general political standards are not high.

another_richard

Leon said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

John Major was truly the king of the hypocrites.

There were no free votes or referendum on his precious Maastricht treaty.

And then there was his affair with Edwina Currie contrasted with his 'back to basics' morality drive.

I find Major an utterly repulsive figure, his canting lies about Europe are one reason we ended up where we did, as you say

There are a zillion reasons to dump Boris, and I think he should be dumped, but the opinion of John bloody Major is not one of them

It was the disaster that was the UK's membership of the ERM which started the road to Brexit.

I suspect that Major sublimated his humiliation from that into a hatred of those who had been proven right about how damaging ERM membership was.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Mark, we morris dancers are renowned for our generosity.

Applicant

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

You banana it's not "overturning" the election result if it is by means of another election. Or rather it is but that's the way it's supposed to work. The 2019 GE overturned the 2017 GE. The 2017 GE overturned the 2015 GE, usw.

Wrong. The 2015 and 2017 GEs created parliaments which sat until dissolved in accordance with the law.

If you can't see that this is different from voting for something but it never being implemented before you're told to vote again, then you're beyond help.

Heathener

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Leon said:

Because of Brexit?


https://www.ft.com/content/54fc3dcc-3798-4f4f-97de-a4b924ebd68b


(££)


"Australia’s largest pension fund to pour £23bn into UK and Europe"

Much more, per capita, is going into the UK than the EU

Tiny Brexiteer manhood klaxon.

How much of that investment in the UK is going into Scotland?

My manhood is so magnificent I don't care.

A fact unverified because nobody else cares to check it.....

I have a vision of a group (an enragement?) of Brexiteers anxiously checking each others nether regions asking if it's big enough. Thankfully they're all similarly endowed so they don't realise.

And all white male gammons who drink too much ...

I mean, really, as demographic stereotype it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Malmesbury

Heathener said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

I am truly baffled how anyone is still going on about the Brexit vote.

I campaigned for Remain but I haven't spent my time since wallowing in the result.

It's so bizarre how obsessed some Brexiteers STILL are with this. What is wrong with you? Do you actually, deep down, know it was wrong or something?

There are people equally obsessed on both sides.

I have people on WhatsApp, who believe that the moment that BJ steps down, the Conservative Party *must* reverse BREXIT and join the Euro. Without a vote.... in the Commons!

Big_G_NorthWales

Heathener said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

I am truly baffled how anyone is still going on about the Brexit vote.

I campaigned for Remain but I haven't spent my time since wallowing in the result.

It's so bizarre how obsessed some Brexiteers STILL are with this. What is wrong with you? Do you actually, deep down, know it was wrong or something?

You do also need to accept your criticism is equally true of a large number of remainers for balance

I suspect most are weary of the constant and continuing battle between leavers and remainers

Pulpstar

A second referendum would be fine if it is in a manifesto pre next GE, and that party wins.

Can't see it happening mind

swing_voter

another_richard said:

Leon said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

John Major was truly the king of the hypocrites.

There were no free votes or referendum on his precious Maastricht treaty.

And then there was his affair with Edwina Currie contrasted with his 'back to basics' morality drive.

I find Major an utterly repulsive figure, his canting lies about Europe are one reason we ended up where we did, as you say

There are a zillion reasons to dump Boris, and I think he should be dumped, but the opinion of John bloody Major is not one of them

It was the disaster that was the UK's membership of the ERM which started the road to Brexit.

I suspect that Major sublimated his humiliation from that into a hatred of those who had been proven right about how damaging ERM membership was.

things didnt (and havent) exactly gone swimmingly well since then.... so the jury's out in my opinion

IanB2

Heathener said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

I am truly baffled how anyone is still going on about the Brexit vote.

I campaigned for Remain but I haven't spent my time since wallowing in the result.

It's so bizarre how obsessed some Brexiteers STILL are with this. What is wrong with you? Do you actually, deep down, know it was wrong or something?

Leon is the only one still obsessing about the events of 2016; most of us are more focused on the consequences for 2022 and beyond.

I suspect Leon's problem is that he woke up on Referendum Day as a Remainer, turned into a Leaver walking to the polling station, and turned back into a Remainer - and a very panicked one at that - once the result came out the next day.

After working through the stages of grief he's now settled on being a Leaver and with such a flaky record has this continual need to re-justify his polling day change of mind.

Heathener

Malmesbury said:

Heathener said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

The is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

I am truly baffled how anyone is still going on about the Brexit vote.

I campaigned for Remain but I haven't spent my time since wallowing in the result.

It's so bizarre how obsessed some Brexiteers STILL are with this. What is wrong with you? Do you actually, deep down, know it was wrong or something?

There are people equally obsessed on both sides.

I have people on WhatsApp, who believe that the moment that BJ steps down, the Conservative Party *must* reverse BREXIT and join the Euro. Without a vote.... in the Commons!

Well that's social media for you. There are nutters on all fringes.

The mainstream of the country knows that we left the EU, Brexit happened and if 'ever' it were to be revoked it would require a new vote and a huge amount of goodwill from the EU.

It's not going to happen anytime soon. Most of the gammons can be assured that they will rest in peace in the ground long before we rejoin, if ever we do.

Applicant

NickPalmer said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

You implement the result of the first one first.
An MP gets elected to parliament for 5 years - only after that period can the electors change their minds.

How many years do you reckon we should give Brexit before it's deemed to be as "implemented" as it will ever be? 5, like Parliament? 20, like the Scottish "generation"? Forever, while we wait for the illusory benefits of splendid isolation to arrive? Remainers should not be hostages indefinitely to the inability of Brexiteers to achieve the promised nirvana.

I'm not personally in favour of an early revote, and think that the most likely future is a Labour government settling for customs union/EFTA, but there is nothing in the least undemocratic about people who disagree arguing their case even 1 day after losing a vote. Democracy, innit.

A Rejoin referendum now would be legitimate, but fairly pointless. I'm not sure you can put an exact timeframe on when it would have a point - the Eu stopping playing silly buggers would be among the prerequisites.

MarqueeMark

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Mark, we morris dancers are renowned for our generosity.

Have you tried enticing them with whiffle-stick pics?

TOPPING

Applicant said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

No you don't. You are asking the same people so it's perfectly democratic. Hugely impractical but perfectly democratic.

Telling people "you can have a vote but if you give the wrong answer we'll make you vote again and again until you get it right" is "perfectly democratic"? OK then.

As I said it is hugely impractical and pretty soon a political structure or party would emerge that said enough of this nonsense and people would vote for that party.

But at the next GE that could still all be reversed.

Big_G_NorthWales

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

Major has always hated Boris so nothing new. He backed Hunt in 2019.

Whether there is anything new rather depends on what he has to say.

May has effectively called for the clown to go, and IDS has come pretty close. Maybe somebody should give Cammo and Hague a ring?

Major will only annoy many conservative mps and I would prefer he didn't as getting Boris out has to be the endeavour

another_richard

TOPPING said:

another_richard said:

Leon said:

Malmesbury said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

Seems early for G (And no T) time.... Hmmm... It is 3pm in Sri Lanka....

I know I have a deserved reputation for drinking. but I am quite capable of losing my rag after << checks hotel room >> two cups of tea and a coffee, if needs be

And if there is one thing that enrages me, it is the people that called for the 2nd vote, without enacting the first. They wanted to cancel democracy, they should grovellingly apologise, be stripped to their vests and y-fronts and pelted with soft rancid eclairs in Leicester Square, then they should slink away from public life forever

There were people who wanted to overturn the 2019 general election because they didn't like the result:

Mere speculation, but: dodgy postal vote spike, dodgy Tory funding, Kuenssberg breaking electoral rules - what’s the chance of the election being voided, hung Parliament returning & this time getting it right: a government of national unity and a second-thoughts EU referendum?

https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1209477694846582784

You banana it's not "overturning" the election result if it is by means of another election. Or rather it is but that's the way it's supposed to work. The 2019 GE overturned the 2017 GE. The 2017 GE overturned the 2015 GE, usw.

Grayling wanted to overturn 2019GE with 2017GE.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Mark, not yet.

MarqueeMark

geoffw said:

Fat pang Patten the other day, now Major. So when Heseltine inveighs tomorrow we'll have a full house.

Surely the nation needs guidance from Dominic Grieve?

Malmesbury

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Mark, we morris dancers are renowned for our generosity.

I though it was - renowned for the terror of their genetically modified piscine underlings?

Or is it - renowned for their generosity in not releasing the genetically modified piscine underlings, on those clearly undeserving of mercy?

OldKingCole

MarqueeMark said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Ah, 'could'.

I could open my bedroom door and find Olivia Wilde and Jennifer Morrison pillow-fighting over which one of them gets to sleep with me.

I'm sure you are magnanimous enough to say "Ladies, no need to fight....you both can."

I am reminded of the old priest who was asked by a young male parishioner whether it was OK to sleep with his girl-friend.
'To be sure, it's OK' the old man replied 'Trouble is, you young people don't sleep!"

Heathener

IanB2 said:

Heathener said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

Major is another fucking 2nd voter, like Starmer et al. Despicable piece of anti-democratic sh1t. Another British Trumpite marching on parliament to overthrow an election


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/28/john-major-calls-for-commons-vote-on-second-referendum

"Former British prime minister John Major has called for a free vote in parliament on whether to hold a second EU referendum. He is the most senior Conservative yet to attack what he called the government’s “unrealistic” Brexit strategy.

In a speech in London that comes at the lowest point so far in the 18-month withdrawal negotiations, Major argued parliament had a duty to consider the “wellbeing of the people”, as well as the will of the people in the first referendum.

“This must be a decisive vote, in which parliament can accept or reject the final outcome; or send the negotiators back to seek improvements; or order a referendum,” he was due to say according to an advance copy of the speech. “That is what parliamentary sovereignty means.”

“No one can truly know what ‘the will of the people’ may then be. So, let parliament decide. Or put the issue back to the people,” he said."


Let him fuck off back to Huntingdonshire and his deserved obscurity. He has no credibility on anything

In what way is holding another democratic vote not democratic.

Because you have to enact the first vote before anything else, AND we were solemnly told by the prime minister and by the government - in a leaflet sent to every British household - that our say in that vote in June 2016 was FINAL. That what we chose is what would happen: REMAIN or LEAVE

There is simply no escaping this moral logic, and anyone that is still trying is adding risible absurdity to grotesque outrage

I am truly baffled how anyone is still going on about the Brexit vote.

I campaigned for Remain but I haven't spent my time since wallowing in the result.

It's so bizarre how obsessed some Brexiteers STILL are with this. What is wrong with you? Do you actually, deep down, know it was wrong or something?

Leon is the only one still obsessing about the events of 2016; most of us are more focused on the consequences for 2022 and beyond.

I suspect Leon's problem is that he woke up on Referendum Day as a Remainer, turned into a Leaver walking to the polling station, and turned back into a Remainer - and a very panicked one at that - once the result came out the next day.

After working through the stages of grief he's now settled on being a Leaver and with such a flaky record has this continual need to re-justify his polling day change of mind.

I didn't know about his capriciousness.

That does explain a lot. There's often no-one so zealous as a convert.