The markets edge back to Johnson but 2022 exit still odds on – politicalbetting.com

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Omnium said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Omnium said:

tlg86 said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….

WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something

Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe

BBC - they got criticised for doing it.

Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.

It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?

Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.

Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.

I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.

I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”

Mexicanpete said:

Simon Clarke doubling down on Starmer/Savile. The Conservatives clearly think this is a bone for Big Dog to chew.

I told you all on Monday that this was a very bad subliminal message for Labour to deal with, tying Starmer to Savile

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

Richard_Nabavi said:

Anna Mikhailova @AVMikhailova

Talk among MPs of another no confidence letter going in at 5pm

PM’s refusal to withdraw the Jimmy Savile comment apparently the trigger

If that's true, it's looking like a coordinated plan. Interesting that our very own Aaron immediately retweeted Anthony Mangnall's tweet and praised him.

Heathener said:

I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.

However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.

So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.

The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.

We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.

Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.

By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.

My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

Heathener said:

I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.

However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.

So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.

The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.

We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.

Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.

By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.

My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.

Leon said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

Best of British luck. He’s young, he should be fine. But it is a nasty virus which has not gone away

Omnium said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.

noneoftheabove said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

For all her failings she might be the only cabinet member with the guts to stand up to the PM (half behind his back of course).

FrancisUrquhart said:

London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/02/london-tube-lines-could-be-shut-for-days-as-tfl-black-hole-soars-to-1500000000-16032468/

Richard_Tyndall said:

Heathener said:

I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.

However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.

So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.

The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.

We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.

Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.

By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.

My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.

The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.

noneoftheabove said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

For all her failings she might be the only cabinet member with the guts to stand up to the PM (half behind his back of course).

Richard_Tyndall said:

Heathener said:

I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.

However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.

So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.

The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.

We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.

Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.

By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.

My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.

The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.

Heathener said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Omnium said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Omnium said:

tlg86 said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….

WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something

Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe

BBC - they got criticised for doing it.

Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.

It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?

Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.

Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.

I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.

I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”

Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?

Indeed. A 60 year old guy who says he likes best sleeping with teenage (prostitutes) and lusted after Emma Raducanu on here when she was just 17.

And he thinks he's funny. So did Jimmy Savile.

Leon said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Leon said:

Heathener said:

I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.

However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.

So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.

The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.

We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.

Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.

By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.

My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.

Another stunningly boring comment, without a trace of wit, or even mental life. You’re like a kind of primitive slime, on the cusp of existence, that burps in hot weather, in a way that mimics sentience

How do you do it? Genuine Q. No offence intended

Seems unnecessarily rude. You been on the juice again, or have you just had a bad review (you've surely have got used to those by now)? Or perhaps it has just dawned on you, as one of the last apologists for Johnson that he, and everything he stands for is a great big steaming pile of dog shit?

You what? Heathener is consistently offensive to me, and I generally ignore his/her weird obsession, but surely I am allowed the odd little jab, to amuse myself, if no one else

And I could have been so much ruder…..

RochdalePioneers said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/02/london-tube-lines-could-be-shut-for-days-as-tfl-black-hole-soars-to-1500000000-16032468/

Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.

The drop in revenue must be brutal.

Andy_JS said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.

Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).

I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.

This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.

The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.

Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.

So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.

I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.

AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.

Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.

Wikipedia says:

On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.

SKS was DPP in 2009.

We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.

Why is Wikipedia God to you? I find it concerning that we used to rely on a variety of different encylopaedias and reference books until fairly recently, and now most people rely on just one. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.

Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).

I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.

This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.

The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.

Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.

So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.

I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.

AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.

Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.

Wikipedia says:

On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.

SKS was DPP in 2009.

We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.

This is the reference:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/9630550/Jimmy-Savile-What-George-Entwistle-told-MPs-about-Panorama-justthewomen-Newsnight-and-the-conversation-at-the-Hilton-Hotel.html

I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.

Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Omnium said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.

Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.

She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.

I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.

kjh said:

Andy_JS said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.

Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).

I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.

This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.

The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.

Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.

So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.

I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.

AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.

Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.

Wikipedia says:

On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.

SKS was DPP in 2009.

We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.

Why is Wikipedia God to you? I find it concerning that we used to rely on a variety of different encylopaedias and reference books until fairly recently, and now most people rely on just one. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Just a joke really as I didn't want dispute @tlg86 researched point, which I had no evidence was wrong and which was properly looked up and contradicted what I had reported.

I agree with you.

dixiedean said:

NorthofStoke said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Anna Mikhailova @AVMikhailova

Talk among MPs of another no confidence letter going in at 5pm

PM’s refusal to withdraw the Jimmy Savile comment apparently the trigger

If that's true, it's looking like a coordinated plan. Interesting that our very own Aaron immediately retweeted Anthony Mangnall's tweet and praised him.

Perhaps they hope that a slow trickle combined with a visit from the men in grey will result in a resignation before 54 is reached?

They may hope that.
I'm hoping for a threesome with the Minogue sisters.

Selebian said:

kjh said:

Andy_JS said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.

Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).

I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.

This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.

The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.

Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.

So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.

I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.

AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.

Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.

Wikipedia says:

On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.

SKS was DPP in 2009.

We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.

Why is Wikipedia God to you? I find it concerning that we used to rely on a variety of different encylopaedias and reference books until fairly recently, and now most people rely on just one. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

Just a joke really as I didn't want dispute @tlg86 researched point, which I had no evidence was wrong and which was properly looked up and contradicted what I had reported.

I agree with you.

It also depends on personal views on 'God' - I disagree with kjh's equating Wikipedia and God, for example, because I can see strong evidence that Wikipedia exists

Andy_JS said:

"Daily Covid stats to be ditched... but not until April: No10 'intends to scrap constant updates' under plan to live with virus like flu"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10468183/Daily-Covid-stats-ditched-not-APRIL.html

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Omnium said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Omnium said:

tlg86 said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….

WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something

Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe

BBC - they got criticised for doing it.

Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.

It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?

Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.

Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.

I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.

I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”

Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?

I LITERALLY know nothing of this “Sean” character, but the amount some of you bang on about him tells me he looms large in your subconscious. I suspect some of you DREAM about him

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.

And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.

That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers

Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:





This is what the internet was FOR, all along

My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.

Photos. We need photos!

It's not as exciting as your office

FrankBooth said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….

WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something

Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe

Excellent. Hopefully the screenwriter is up to the task

Coogan is a brilliant choice. Quite an obnoxious man, in some respects (apparently The Trip is basically factual) but he is a genius at inhabiting other personae. I imagine he will do a superbly creepy Savile

Alan Partridge's Scissored Isle is brilliant and very apposite considering Brexit and now levellinp up.

OldKingCole said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….

WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something

Never met SirJammy, but was introduced to Sir Cyril Smith as a small boy. I remember a terrifying monster of a man and that was both of us fully clothed on Rochdale market. What went on - and the cover up - is a disgrace.

What is it about monsters being knighted...?

I met Sir C once, at a Rochdale Liberal meeting. I can imagine that to a small boy he could have been a terrifying monster; he certainly wasn't good looking man. Very big and very fat. Of course, that was to hormonal (I think) problems.

turbotubbs said:

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.

And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.

That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.

And that will be tough while the zero covid crowd exist (and get off on the attention).

There is the issue of long covid. I suspect its over stated, but for sure some have debilitating conditions arising from covid infection. All the evidence suggests that vaccination helps mitigate the risk of long covid too.

Its hard to transition from state sponsored terror campaign about how bad covid is (even Whitty with the advent of omicron) to a more rational place where we have done what we can, and its time to get back to normal. We do need to do this though.

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

IanB2 said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Omnium said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Omnium said:

tlg86 said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….

WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something

Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe

BBC - they got criticised for doing it.

Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.

It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?

Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.

Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.

I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.

I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”

Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?

I LITERALLY know nothing of this “Sean” character, but the amount some of you bang on about him tells me he looms large in your subconscious. I suspect some of you DREAM about him

You really don’t want to be doing that. He doesn’t reach anywhere near the level of literature.

The mitigation we get from occasional humour is trivial when weighed against the burden of his hypocrisy, dishonesty, flakiness and downright abusiveness that he inflicts on readers of this site.

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Leon said:

Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers

Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:





This is what the internet was FOR, all along

My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.

Photos. We need photos!

It's not as exciting as your office

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

"Daily Covid stats to be ditched... but not until April: No10 'intends to scrap constant updates' under plan to live with virus like flu"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10468183/Daily-Covid-stats-ditched-not-APRIL.html

But what will we do at 4pm every afternoon....

In all seriousness, it is very sensible move. I don't think it is really helping anybody now to keep seeing these figures, and then most people won't know a lot of the nuances behind them.

eek said:

MISTY said:

Beibheirli_C said:

IshmaelZ said:

Alastair Meeks
@AlastairMeeks
Doesn't look as if Jim has fixed it for Boris Johnson.

https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488861824384651267

I think Boris is safe until May's elections. Perhaps he will find an excuse to cancel them

Two by-elections before May, too.

But they are Southend West - Labour / Lib Dems not standing so Tory win on a tiny vote
Birmingham Erdington - safe Labour even before Bozo blew any chance of the Tories winning up.

RochdalePioneers said:

Anabobazina said:

RochdalePioneers said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/02/london-tube-lines-could-be-shut-for-days-as-tfl-black-hole-soars-to-1500000000-16032468/

Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.

The drop in revenue must be brutal.

Ain't gonna happen.

Shutting operations down? If they run out of money - and that looks very likely - then presumably you expect the government to bail them out?

That should happen, but mad things do happen when there is a row between national governments and powerful cities. I was in Washington in summer 97 and schools had a delayed opening as there wasn't enough money to do so.

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

kjh said:

tlg86 said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:

eek said:

Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen


The Times
@thetimes
Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions

Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.

Actually I believe it.

In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.

I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.

Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"



https://twitter.com/andrewspoooner/status/1488823436113854465

Savile also was invited to Chequers by Blair

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/celebrity/scots-pop-guru-alan-mcgee-23546990

He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.

Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).

I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.

This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.

The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.

Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.

So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.

I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.

AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.

Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.

Wikipedia says:

On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.

SKS was DPP in 2009.

We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.

This is the reference:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/jimmy-savile/9630550/Jimmy-Savile-What-George-Entwistle-told-MPs-about-Panorama-justthewomen-Newsnight-and-the-conversation-at-the-Hilton-Hotel.html

I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.

Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.

The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/oct/24/jimmy-savile-dpp-2009-evidence

Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.

Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.

Foxy said:

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.

And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.

That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.

It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.

And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.

That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.

And that will be tough while the zero covid crowd exist (and get off on the attention).

There is the issue of long covid. I suspect its over stated, but for sure some have debilitating conditions arising from covid infection. All the evidence suggests that vaccination helps mitigate the risk of long covid too.

Its hard to transition from state sponsored terror campaign about how bad covid is (even Whitty with the advent of omicron) to a more rational place where we have done what we can, and its time to get back to normal. We do need to do this though.

Yes, 'long covid' is, as far as the evidence seems to suggest, shorthand for a host of post-viral syndromes – which exist for other types of virus. But again, there's a stigma to long covid too which doesn't exist for those who suffer such post-viral syndromes from, say, flu.

The psychology of this is a problem, for sure.

Leon said:

OldKingCole said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Omnium said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?

The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.

https://twitter.com/arthistorynews/status/1488870878943354881

Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.

Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.

She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.

I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.

Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.

You’re not alone. I like her and admire her. I also - God help me - slightly fancy her

First time I met her Tony Newton, our ex-MP, was walking through a local fete and I thought 'what's he doing with that attractive Asian girl?'
Quite a few years ago now, of course.

She is genuinely attractive. Phenomenal cheekbones

Quite broad in the beam, but one can, er, overlook that

eek said:

Leon said:

I think every PB-er should post a photo of exactly where they are now, and what is happening in front of them

Any identifying evidence can and should be removed, of course, but all else must stay

Larks!

2 large computer screens are hardly going to be exciting for anyone to read.

Unless they wish to see very poor quality C# code and even worse documentation.

OldKingCole said:

Foxy said:

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.

And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.

That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.

It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.

Best of luck. Cough etc all gone?

Stark_Dawning said:

With Boris's Jimmy Savile comments, I wonder if he and Lynton have plans to foment a British QAnon movement - implanting the idea of a sinister and shadowy establishment cabal that includes liberal lawyers in league with paedophiles. It makes sense.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Heathener said:

I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.

However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.

So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.

The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.

We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.

Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.

By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.

My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.

The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.

That is probably a fair analysis. It would be karma if it were Brexit that brought down The Clown, but I really don't want to wait that long, so Partygate is good enough.

Foxy said:

OldKingCole said:

Foxy said:

Anabobazina said:

turbotubbs said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

DavidL said:

Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.

The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.

And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.

That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.

It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.

Best of luck. Cough etc all gone?

Yes, just feeling drained and fatigued now, with a bit of brain fog. Some headache and sneeze still.