Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
How interesting. She again looked pissed off today, and nodding to SKS earlier in the week when he was talking about honesty and integrity was extraordinary (to me anyway).
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
Did she really spend NYE with him on 11 consecutive occasions? I mean, I watch Jools Holland every NYE, but them I'm a boring ****.
There's some doubt about this, Savile said he spent 11 consecutive Christmases but those who knew Thatcher said it wasn't likely, a few, but not 11.
I think when one is arguing about how many times Savile was invited round for New Year, the main argument may have been lost.
Indeed
Who the hell sits down IN NUMBER 10 DOWNING STREET and thinks, Hmm, I’m one of the most important people in the world, I can basically invite who I like to Chequers and most will come, so who will I invite around for NYE?
“I know, Jimmy Savile! Wearing those amusing clothes!”
Please do not take the Blessed Margaret's name in vein.
It was a momentary lapse of judgement I suspect, remember he had 19 million viewers at his peak in the 1980s for Jim'll Fix It so she was not alone.
The fact he was invited to Chequers by the 2 most dominant PMs of the last 50 years and was close to Prince Charles and senior figures in the Roman Catholic Church and the police shows he knew how to effectively suck up to the rich and powerful.
BR also used him for many years in an advertising campaign
Such rampant hypocritical bollocks. A "momentary lapse of judgement" unlike the massive desperate failure of Starmer you say?
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Talk among MPs of another no confidence letter going in at 5pm
PM’s refusal to withdraw the Jimmy Savile comment apparently the trigger
If that's true, it's looking like a coordinated plan. Interesting that our very own Aaron immediately retweeted Anthony Mangnall's tweet and praised him.
Would it be too much to suggest that this comment was a deliberate tactic to force a vote sooner rather than later, because BJ thinks he has more chance of winning one before the May elections and be safe for another 12 months.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
Excellent. Hopefully the screenwriter is up to the task
Coogan is a brilliant choice. Quite an obnoxious man, in some respects (apparently The Trip is basically factual) but he is a genius at inhabiting other personae. I imagine he will do a superbly creepy Savile
Alan Partridge's Scissored Isle is brilliant and very apposite considering Brexit and now levellinp up.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
Another stunningly boring comment, without a trace of wit, or even mental life. You’re like a kind of primitive slime, on the cusp of existence, that burps in hot weather, in a way that mimics sentience
Talk among MPs of another no confidence letter going in at 5pm
PM’s refusal to withdraw the Jimmy Savile comment apparently the trigger
If that's true, it's looking like a coordinated plan. Interesting that our very own Aaron immediately retweeted Anthony Mangnall's tweet and praised him.
Perhaps they hope that a slow trickle combined with a visit from the men in grey will result in a resignation before 54 is reached?
They may hope that. I'm hoping for a threesome with the Minogue sisters.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
Good analysis. My only question, slightly tongue-in-cheek, is do you mean a Scottish generation?
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.
Very true. Good point.
Ironically, it was our ejection from the ERM that paved the way for this country's stunning economic boom over the next 20 years.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
Best of British luck. He’s young, he should be fine. But it is a nasty virus which has not gone away
Yes it has. Covid is over. Liar said so. And we can trust every word that he says can't we.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Never met SirJammy, but was introduced to Sir Cyril Smith as a small boy. I remember a terrifying monster of a man and that was both of us fully clothed on Rochdale market. What went on - and the cover up - is a disgrace.
What is it about monsters being knighted...?
Truly scary. I never really understood why Smith joined the Liberals. He was Labour through and through. Do you think he might have been warned off in exchange for Labour Party silence?
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
She is another who think rules don't apply to her, and that the more power the leaders of the country, and conversely the fewer rights the rest of us have the better.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
Another stunningly boring comment, without a trace of wit, or even mental life. You’re like a kind of primitive slime, on the cusp of existence, that burps in hot weather, in a way that mimics sentience
How do you do it? Genuine Q. No offence intended
Seems unnecessarily rude. You been on the juice again, or have you just had a bad review (you've surely have got used to those by now)? Or perhaps it has just dawned on you, as one of the last apologists for Johnson that he, and everything he stands for is a great big steaming pile of dog shit?
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
For all her failings she might be the only cabinet member with the guts to stand up to the PM (half behind his back of course).
Yep. Priti has a track record of not caving in to the PM. She doesn't have to burnish her right wing credentials with the wider Party, of course. I quite admire her for that
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.
Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
Indeed. A 60 year old guy who says he likes best sleeping with teenage (prostitutes) and lusted after Emma Raducanu on here when she was just 17.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.
Indeed. We joined at a laughably ridiculous DM rate, to paper over cracks in the Tory Party. Not much changes.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Covid cases rising in Wales and Northern Ireland - ONS More now on the latest infection estimates from the ONS, which cover the week ending 29 January.
The ONS say the rates for people testing positive were high but flat in England and rose in Wales and Northern Ireland. The trend was less certain in Scotland.
For that time period, these were estimated numbers with Covid:
1 in 20 people in England 1 in 30 people in Scotland 1 in 20 people in Wales 1 in 15 people in Northern Ireland
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Never met SirJammy, but was introduced to Sir Cyril Smith as a small boy. I remember a terrifying monster of a man and that was both of us fully clothed on Rochdale market. What went on - and the cover up - is a disgrace.
What is it about monsters being knighted...?
I met Sir C once, at a Rochdale Liberal meeting. I can imagine that to a small boy he could have been a terrifying monster; he certainly wasn't good looking man. Very big and very fat. Of course, that was to hormonal (I think) problems.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
For all her failings she might be the only cabinet member with the guts to stand up to the PM (half behind his back of course).
I think she is the most likely to wield the knife, since she's unlikely to win the leadership as it stands and so may have less to lose from shaking things up a bit. Plus she's clearly being set up as the fall guy for the channel crossings (which she really has no ability to control) so the longer she stays in post the lower her stock will fall. I reckon she's got the bottle to do it, too, which others lack. Finally, I reckon she would just enjoy knifing Johnson in the back.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
Another stunningly boring comment, without a trace of wit, or even mental life. You’re like a kind of primitive slime, on the cusp of existence, that burps in hot weather, in a way that mimics sentience
How do you do it? Genuine Q. No offence intended
Seems unnecessarily rude. You been on the juice again, or have you just had a bad review (you've surely have got used to those by now)? Or perhaps it has just dawned on you, as one of the last apologists for Johnson that he, and everything he stands for is a great big steaming pile of dog shit?
You what? Heathener is consistently offensive to me, and I generally ignore his/her weird obsession, but surely I am allowed the odd little jab, to amuse myself, if no one else
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.
That is probably a fair analysis. It would be karma if it were Brexit that brought down The Clown, but I really don't want to wait that long, so Partygate is good enough.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
Indeed. A 60 year old guy who says he likes best sleeping with teenage (prostitutes) and lusted after Emma Raducanu on here when she was just 17.
And he thinks he's funny. So did Jimmy Savile.
Do you think the age of consent should be raised from 16 to 18? (While probably dropping the voting age in the other direction).
At this time I can no longer support the PM. His actions and mistruths are overshadowing the extraordinary work of so many excellent ministers and colleagues.
I sense that Ellwood is right: a VONC is inevitable.
If Johnson's stance this week had held up he might have got away with it but it seems that everything he touches turns to sewerage: from the Lynton Crosby fiasco (aka lie) to the Jimmy Savile slur (aka lie) to the latest partygate revelations (many lies) ... etc. etc.
He's clearly unfit for the office of prime minister.
Its the collapse in his tactical nous that is stunning. The Saville comment was an attempt at a dead cat - but as has been pointed out you don't distract from lying by telling more lies.
He gets read the riot act by the Speaker at the start of PMQs and decides that repeating the same slur is the right strategy.
Its almost as if he has no political nous except that hired in from people like Crosby and Cummings. And yet HY etc keep insisting he is a political genius. Political pillock more like.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
Another stunningly boring comment, without a trace of wit, or even mental life. You’re like a kind of primitive slime, on the cusp of existence, that burps in hot weather, in a way that mimics sentience
How do you do it? Genuine Q. No offence intended
Seems unnecessarily rude. You been on the juice again, or have you just had a bad review (you've surely have got used to those by now)? Or perhaps it has just dawned on you, as one of the last apologists for Johnson that he, and everything he stands for is a great big steaming pile of dog shit?
You what? Heathener is consistently offensive to me, and I generally ignore his/her weird obsession, but surely I am allowed the odd little jab, to amuse myself, if no one else
And I could have been so much ruder…..
My apologies. I shouldn't have waded into a personal feud, I will stand back and enjoy in future.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.
Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.
The drop in revenue must be brutal.
Yet at weekends travel numbers are little different to pre covid. It's just midweek travel and commuting that's been decimated.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
Indeed. A 60 year old guy who says he likes best sleeping with teenage (prostitutes) and lusted after Emma Raducanu on here when she was just 17.
And he thinks he's funny. So did Jimmy Savile.
Do you think the age of consent should be raised from 16 to 18? (While probably dropping the voting age in the other direction).
Probably, especially when there's a big age gap. The 'position of trust' doesn't really cover all predation.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
Why is Wikipedia God to you? I find it concerning that we used to rely on a variety of different encylopaedias and reference books until fairly recently, and now most people rely on just one. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Just a joke really as I didn't want dispute @tlg86 researched point, which I had no evidence was wrong and which was properly looked up and contradicted what I had reported.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
I LITERALLY know nothing of this “Sean” character, but the amount some of you bang on about him tells me he looms large in your subconscious. I suspect some of you DREAM about him
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers
Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:
This is what the internet was FOR, all along
My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
Why is Wikipedia God to you? I find it concerning that we used to rely on a variety of different encylopaedias and reference books until fairly recently, and now most people rely on just one. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Just a joke really as I didn't want dispute @tlg86 researched point, which I had no evidence was wrong and which was properly looked up and contradicted what I had reported.
I agree with you.
It also depends on personal views on 'God' - I disagree with kjh's equating Wikipedia and God, for example, because I can see strong evidence that Wikipedia exists
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
Talk among MPs of another no confidence letter going in at 5pm
PM’s refusal to withdraw the Jimmy Savile comment apparently the trigger
If that's true, it's looking like a coordinated plan. Interesting that our very own Aaron immediately retweeted Anthony Mangnall's tweet and praised him.
Perhaps they hope that a slow trickle combined with a visit from the men in grey will result in a resignation before 54 is reached?
They may hope that. I'm hoping for a threesome with the Minogue sisters.
Ha! Indeed...
In the immortal words of Del Boy "And I am hoping that Millwall will win the Uefa Cup."
London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.
Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
Why is Wikipedia God to you? I find it concerning that we used to rely on a variety of different encylopaedias and reference books until fairly recently, and now most people rely on just one. That doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Just a joke really as I didn't want dispute @tlg86 researched point, which I had no evidence was wrong and which was properly looked up and contradicted what I had reported.
I agree with you.
It also depends on personal views on 'God' - I disagree with kjh's equating Wikipedia and God, for example, because I can see strong evidence that Wikipedia exists
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
I note again that I think it extremely likely that this smear/attack line on Starmer was being held back for GE 2024 and Johnson has had to use it early in order to survive another day or week.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
You are correct , it was when SKS was DPP that 4 cases from Surrey and Sussex police against Jimmy Saville for the rape of learning disabled girls under the age of 16 were dropped by the CPS. I have absolutely no idea how the CPS works but I would imagine that for such a high profile case someone senior took the decision.
In all seriousness, it is very sensible move. I don't think it is really helping anybody now to keep seeing these figures, and then most people won't know a lot of the nuances behind them.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
And that will be tough while the zero covid crowd exist (and get off on the attention).
There is the issue of long covid. I suspect its over stated, but for sure some have debilitating conditions arising from covid infection. All the evidence suggests that vaccination helps mitigate the risk of long covid too.
Its hard to transition from state sponsored terror campaign about how bad covid is (even Whitty with the advent of omicron) to a more rational place where we have done what we can, and its time to get back to normal. We do need to do this though.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
I LITERALLY know nothing of this “Sean” character, but the amount some of you bang on about him tells me he looms large in your subconscious. I suspect some of you DREAM about him
You really don’t want to be doing that. He doesn’t reach anywhere near the level of literature.
The mitigation we get from occasional humour is trivial when weighed against the burden of his hypocrisy, dishonesty, flakiness and downright abusiveness that he inflicts on readers of this site.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.
Whilst Black Wednesday was very damaging indeed for the Conservatives' reputation for economic competence, and probably contributed to the scale of the 1997 defeat, it's a bit of a stretch to say it "brought him [Major] down in the end", isn't it?
It happened in September 1992 and he was in office (albeit, as Lamont famously put it, possibly not in power) until April 1997.
There were a range of other issues that probably made 1997 unwinnable even if Black Wednesday hadn't happened. The economic recovery from the recession was pretty anaemic for quite a while (necessitating tax rises, which were badly mishandled). There were huge sleaze problems. There were divisions on wider European issues in particular. Historic underinvestment in health and education was becoming very visible. And there was an exceptionally able young Labour leader setting himself against an extremely tired Tory Party and a leader whose "big idea" seemed to many to be the Cones Hotline.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.
Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.
The drop in revenue must be brutal.
Ain't gonna happen.
Shutting operations down? If they run out of money - and that looks very likely - then presumably you expect the government to bail them out?
That should happen, but mad things do happen when there is a row between national governments and powerful cities. I was in Washington in summer 97 and schools had a delayed opening as there wasn't enough money to do so.
Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers
Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:
This is what the internet was FOR, all along
My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.
Photos. We need photos!
It's not as exciting as your office
I find stuff like this fascinating. How people actually live and work. It’s like those Zoom screen shots of politicians’ homes. I scour them for clues as to the personality. What books do they read? The details are endlessly intriguing. I am sure this is an evolutionary drive - it’s the same drive that makes gossip so addictive
That looks rather nice as mobile offices go. What’s that you’re eating? Some kind of curry? Any good?
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
She is, personally, very pleasant, and I know people who like her very much. She was also very helpful to me over a matter which wasn't really a constituency issue. As I posted the other day she hasn't been seen around the constituency for quite a while. I don't like her views at all though, and, discussing some local restoration activity, when someone suggested her to open it, several members of the committee expressed very strong opposition.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
Excellent. Hopefully the screenwriter is up to the task
Coogan is a brilliant choice. Quite an obnoxious man, in some respects (apparently The Trip is basically factual) but he is a genius at inhabiting other personae. I imagine he will do a superbly creepy Savile
Alan Partridge's Scissored Isle is brilliant and very apposite considering Brexit and now levellinp up.
Coogan was brilliant in "Stan and Ollie" too.
Alan Partridge is a creation of genius, but I do understand why Coogan loathes his creation.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
You’re not alone. I like her and admire her. I also - God help me - slightly fancy her
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Never met SirJammy, but was introduced to Sir Cyril Smith as a small boy. I remember a terrifying monster of a man and that was both of us fully clothed on Rochdale market. What went on - and the cover up - is a disgrace.
What is it about monsters being knighted...?
I met Sir C once, at a Rochdale Liberal meeting. I can imagine that to a small boy he could have been a terrifying monster; he certainly wasn't good looking man. Very big and very fat. Of course, that was to hormonal (I think) problems.
Some of his other lifestyle choices could be blamed on his hormones too.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
And that will be tough while the zero covid crowd exist (and get off on the attention).
There is the issue of long covid. I suspect its over stated, but for sure some have debilitating conditions arising from covid infection. All the evidence suggests that vaccination helps mitigate the risk of long covid too.
Its hard to transition from state sponsored terror campaign about how bad covid is (even Whitty with the advent of omicron) to a more rational place where we have done what we can, and its time to get back to normal. We do need to do this though.
Yes, 'long covid' is, as far as the evidence seems to suggest, shorthand for a host of post-viral syndromes – which exist for other types of virus. But again, there's a stigma to long covid too which doesn't exist for those who suffer such post-viral syndromes from, say, flu.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
I can't even tell if Johnson is alleging negligence or actual cover up. The thing about convicting people of stuff, even if it's bleeding obvious they done it, is bleeding difficult. Hence the DPP's job is deciding to prosecute people, but also deciding not to. Johnson is hoping that enough people do not understand this.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Steve Coogan plays Savile in a new ITV drama I believe
BBC - they got criticised for doing it.
Coogan does a fantastic Savile, so should be good.
It's a horrible idea. 'Hitler the series' ?
Tbf Hitler has popped up in a lot of tv and films over the years.
Yes, but he really had a huge influence on history. Unavoidable. There's no reason to revisit Saville.
I tend to disagree. The story is not Saville, its the people around him, and why he was able to do what he did. I think that there are still parallels for now too - child abuse is still occuring, both of the mass gang grooming kind, and the creepy family friend kind. Our attitudes and how we deal with this is important, and a sensible reflection on Saville, a primae facie weird human being getting away with unspeakable acts, and never brought to book is timely.
I know this is 20/20 hindsight - and then some - but if you look closely at that pic of Savile with Thatch, and zero in on his eyes, his eyes actually seem to be saying “Yep, I’m an evil pedo, and I’m getting away with it”
Best not post too many selfies yourself, eh, Sean?
I LITERALLY know nothing of this “Sean” character, but the amount some of you bang on about him tells me he looms large in your subconscious. I suspect some of you DREAM about him
You really don’t want to be doing that. He doesn’t reach anywhere near the level of literature.
The mitigation we get from occasional humour is trivial when weighed against the burden of his hypocrisy, dishonesty, flakiness and downright abusiveness that he inflicts on readers of this site.
Oh well, you’d best ignore him then, and forget about him. The advantage of this site is that you can do that. Just skim over comments and go to the next. Helps with the blood pressure
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers
Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:
This is what the internet was FOR, all along
My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.
Photos. We need photos!
It's not as exciting as your office
It is to me
Lots of memories of first class trips to London and of course a lifetime love of all things trains
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
You’re not alone. I like her and admire her. I also - God help me - slightly fancy her
First time I met her Tony Newton, our ex-MP, was walking through a local fete and I thought 'what's he doing with that attractive Asian girl?' Quite a few years ago now, of course.
In all seriousness, it is very sensible move. I don't think it is really helping anybody now to keep seeing these figures, and then most people won't know a lot of the nuances behind them.
They should probably just do ICU and 'for Covid' hospitalisations now, and not bother with the rest.
Positive tests tell few stories now the link between them and morbidity has massively weakened, and the benchmark has changed anyway. So arguably not a great deal of point continuing with them much longer.
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
It is fascinating. He must have had some Satanic charm. So many smart people taken in. He gave me the creeps when I was 12, so I wasn’t taken it, but Thatcher, Blair, all of them….
WTF was it? It deserves a book. Or a Netflix documentary, or something
Never met SirJammy, but was introduced to Sir Cyril Smith as a small boy. I remember a terrifying monster of a man and that was both of us fully clothed on Rochdale market. What went on - and the cover up - is a disgrace.
What is it about monsters being knighted...?
They are a pretty dull lot now, but the Liberal MPs of the 60s/70s were quite a crowd. Cyril, of course. But then there was Clement Freud, now an unmentionable. Colourful characters like John Pardoe and David Penhaligon. Peter Bessell. And, of course, Mr Thorpe himself, complete with brown bowler hat. Not bad going for such a small parliamentary party.
On the other hand, they did have David Steel and Alan Beith who could bore for Britain.
I think Boris is safe until May's elections. Perhaps he will find an excuse to cancel them
Two by-elections before May, too.
But they are Southend West - Labour / Lib Dems not standing so Tory win on a tiny vote Birmingham Erdington - safe Labour even before Bozo blew any chance of the Tories winning up.
True, and Johnson apologists will dismiss them whatever happens. But the Birmingham vote was 50:40 Lab:Con last time. It’s not that safe. The Tories would win it on less than the swing they got in Hartlepool. If they do very badly, I think that will be meaningful, even if Johnson’s fanbase deny it.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
You’re not alone. I like her and admire her. I also - God help me - slightly fancy her
First time I met her Tony Newton, our ex-MP, was walking through a local fete and I thought 'what's he doing with that attractive Asian girl?' Quite a few years ago now, of course.
She is genuinely attractive. Phenomenal cheekbones
Quite broad in the beam, but one can, er, overlook that
London mayor Sadiq Khan could shut the Tube for days on end and close bridges and tunnels as a black hole in the city's transport budget soars to £1.5bn.
Having spent 3 days in London I can understand the problem. The lack of people travelling about in the middle is marked. I had seen some pictures but couldn't believe it until I saw it.
The drop in revenue must be brutal.
Ain't gonna happen.
Shutting operations down? If they run out of money - and that looks very likely - then presumably you expect the government to bail them out?
That should happen, but mad things do happen when there is a row between national governments and powerful cities. I was in Washington in summer 97 and schools had a delayed opening as there wasn't enough money to do so.
Yeah, the government will have to bail them out. In any case, the closure of the tube for several days simply won't happen. Do you really think it will?
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
I can't even tell if Johnson is alleging negligence or actual cover up. The thing about convicting people of stuff, even if it's bleeding obvious they done it, is bleeding difficult. Hence the DPP's job is deciding to prosecute people, but also deciding not to. Johnson is hoping that enough people do not understand this.
At what point do the Breach of Lockdown notices reach a level where prosecution is appropriate?
Filing under things that ain't ever going to happen
The Times @thetimes Up-pointing red triangle JUST IN: Boris Johnson has been warned that more Tory MPs will put in letters of no confidence unless he retracts his claim that Sir Keir Starmer failed to prosecute Jimmy Savile when he was director of public prosecutions
Both of them. Obviously he wont retract as he's already double downed, and those who've not already put in a letter would be pushed over the edge in defence of Keir? Give me a break.
Actually I believe it.
In my call earlier, it'll be a race to the bottom, as it legitimises this.
I don't expect Starmer to rise to it, but some leftie outrider will.
Thatcher "responded by inviting the now-disgraced DJ to lunch at Chequers, spending 11 consecutive New Year’s Eves with him and overseeing his knighthood"
He was given a pass to a sensitive NHS site with the decision made at a very high level of the Dept of Health. The Tories were running the country at the time. What I am not sure is whether the relevant Minister knew, but there is such a thing as responsibility fo r one'sa department (though that is conspicously lacking in Mr Johnson). And if the Tories are complaining about SKS and his running of the DPP, they might like to consider how compliciot they were in actually facilitating the crimes.
Not sure that's quite the same. Ministers make decisions and I doubt that got to the top of the department (terrible as it was).
I'd be curious to know what sort of cases get reviewed by the DPP. Savile was quite high profile, so I'm slightly surprised that it didn't make its way to the top of the CPS.
This was covered by Nazir Afzal this morning. Let's hope I get this right, probably not fully, so please correct where I have it wrong.
The police incorrectly told victims and the CPS that there were no other incidents other than theirs and each case was not put together with the others. So on the basis of 1 complaint in each case the CPS decided there wasn't the evidence to prosecute that case. Nasir also covered something regarding the independence of the prosecution, which I didn't really follow, but meant that the Director of the CPS would not be aware of this. He also pointed out that Starmer wasn't at the CPS at this time (rather important) After Starmer was appointed he appointed Nasir to review the problem of child abuse cases not being prosecuted and the prosecution rate significantly improved. So in fact Starmer was not only not responsible for the Saville failures but actually was instrumental in resolving the issues. In addition Nasir made an astounding claim (bearing in mind liable) re Johnson making a previous statement (I assume an article) about child abuse cases and spaffing money up the wall.
Sadly my recollection is not as good as hearing it first hand but it was rather damning.
So Starmer's apology was for stuff that happened before he was DPP? I didn't realise that.
I don't know if records are kept regarding complaints. It's a shame that when others came forward, no one knew that it wasn't the first time an allegation had been made.
AIUI it was analogous to David Cameron apologising for Bloody Sunday.
Didn't happen on his watch but as the incumbent it fell to him to apologise.
Wikipedia says:
On 24 October 2012 the Crown Prosecution Service said the Director of Public Prosecutions, Keir Starmer, would review the service's decisions not to prosecute Savile in 2009 in relation to four claims against him for sexual abuse dating back to the 1970s.
SKS was DPP in 2009.
We do have a bit of a conflict there don't we? I don't want to slag off Wikipedia as, as far as I am concerned, it is God. I can only assume there is some other explanation relating to an earlier date.
I don't have a Telegraph account, so can't read it.
Same here. As I said Nazir, I think, was clear on the matter, yet dates seem to contradict that and I trust Nazir so I suspect that there is more to this that we don't know in terms of events and dates.
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
As I said earlier, I can't answer that. You have provided abundant evidence that what I reported Nazir saying was not correct and I don't think I got what he said wrong, but may have. As I said I couldn't recall it all, but that was a fairly basic bit of info. I would be interested in the context of what Nazir was saying because I see no reason for him misleading or lying so he may be referring to something earlier. Also @TheScreamingEagles thought the same from his memory (not Nazir this morning). It would be interesting to know what TSE remembers.
In all seriousness, it is very sensible move. I don't think it is really helping anybody now to keep seeing these figures, and then most people won't know a lot of the nuances behind them.
They should probably just do ICU and 'for Covid' hospitalisations now, and not bother with the rest.
Positive tests tell few stories now the link between them and morbidity has massively weakened, and the benchmark has changed anyway. So arguably not a great deal of point continuing with them much longer.
Where is @MoonRabbit? We will be seeing a camping to save The Monoliths.....
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.
Wonder if Cameron might use the opportunity to stick the knife into Boris and defend Starmer over Savile? Wouldn't even have to mention Bojo, just do a statement saying SKS wasn't at fault.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
And that will be tough while the zero covid crowd exist (and get off on the attention).
There is the issue of long covid. I suspect its over stated, but for sure some have debilitating conditions arising from covid infection. All the evidence suggests that vaccination helps mitigate the risk of long covid too.
Its hard to transition from state sponsored terror campaign about how bad covid is (even Whitty with the advent of omicron) to a more rational place where we have done what we can, and its time to get back to normal. We do need to do this though.
Yes, 'long covid' is, as far as the evidence seems to suggest, shorthand for a host of post-viral syndromes – which exist for other types of virus. But again, there's a stigma to long covid too which doesn't exist for those who suffer such post-viral syndromes from, say, flu.
The psychology of this is a problem, for sure.
Quite a high rate of new diabetes, cardiac and cerebrovascular disease in covid inpatients post discharge. How much of this we see in less severe disease is not yet clear.
Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers
Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:
This is what the internet was FOR, all along
My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.
Photos. We need photos!
It's not as exciting as your office
It is to me
Lots of memories of first class trips to London and of course a lifetime love of all things trains
At least you had enough common sense to book a coast view seat.
I wonder why this has leaked today. Priti on manoeuvres?
The BBC reporting that last year No.10 overruled the Home Secretary to keep the Met Commissioner in her job. One for historians of Johnson's fall to ponder.
Why is she so hated? I think she's really very good. Obviously has faults too.
Not sure hate but certainly dislike intensely and, to some extent, fear.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
Mostly I agree with you RT. I really like Patel though. Easily, in my view, the best plausible PM after Boris. I don't often find myself so far out on the wings.
You’re not alone. I like her and admire her. I also - God help me - slightly fancy her
First time I met her Tony Newton, our ex-MP, was walking through a local fete and I thought 'what's he doing with that attractive Asian girl?' Quite a few years ago now, of course.
She is genuinely attractive. Phenomenal cheekbones
Quite broad in the beam, but one can, er, overlook that
Smart and wise though..
Whatever it is she doesn't deserve the unpopularity.
With Boris's Jimmy Savile comments, I wonder if he and Lynton have plans to foment a British QAnon movement - implanting the idea of a sinister and shadowy establishment cabal that includes liberal lawyers in league with paedophiles. It makes sense.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.
Best of luck. Cough etc all gone?
Yes, just feeling drained and fatigued now, with a bit of brain fog. Some headache and sneeze still.
With Boris's Jimmy Savile comments, I wonder if he and Lynton have plans to foment a British QAnon movement - implanting the idea of a sinister and shadowy establishment cabal that includes liberal lawyers in league with paedophiles. It makes sense.
In all seriousness, it is very sensible move. I don't think it is really helping anybody now to keep seeing these figures, and then most people won't know a lot of the nuances behind them.
Data is useful - we use these data in research I’m involved in - and data should be open and available. If some people are too obsessed with checking these figures, that’s not the fault of the data! If you want people to stop worrying about COVID-19, convince them that they don’t need to worry.
PS: Making nonsense claims - e.g. it’s just like a bad cold - is not going to be very persuasive.
I was thinking about HY asking me to respond this morning and I just don't have the time or inclination to enter into a back and forth with someone who is like a JW.
However, for the wider community I think 1990 is an interesting comparison. After 3 stunning General Election victories, Margaret Thatcher had become toxic. The poll tax was the final straw. Labour were getting regular double-digit opinion poll leads.
So the Conservative MPs did (well sort of did) what they needed to in order to save the party. They ditched Maggie. This still sticks in the throat of some diehards who didn't get it, and couldn't see what was coming.
The result? John Major pulled off an unexpected victory in 1992.
We tend to judge Major by what happened next, but without the ERM fiasco of Black Wednesday it's possible he might have retrieved things.
Is 2022 like 1990? Yes and no. Boris Johnson is more toxic now than even Margaret Thatcher, for the reason that he has alienated everybody across all parts of his party and beyond. This isn't one clique. He has upset everyone. And he is no Margaret Thatcher. She had her faults, by heck, but she was a straight no nonsense person and a great PM.
By the same token Sir Keir Starmer is no Neil Kinnock. He's a bit dour and drab but let's just say that SKS would never do a Sheffield Rally.
My point is this. If the tories ditch Johnson now I think they stand a chance in 2024. If they don't, they're out for a generation.
The point about Major, almost as an aside to your main point, is that Black Wednesday was entirely of his own doing. He was the one who, as Chancellor had campaigned so hard for and had convinced Thatcher that the UK should join the ERM. So there is something wonderfully poetic about the fact it was this that brought him down in the end.
That is probably a fair analysis. It would be karma if it were Brexit that brought down The Clown, but I really don't want to wait that long, so Partygate is good enough.
Nah. Brexit, mistake though it is, is high policy and proper politics.
A silly tawdry man being brought down by something silly and tawdry is much more just.
Covid infections over 3m again in the last week. Anecdotes are useless in this situation but the number of contributors on here that seem to have it right now is highly consistent with this. As I have said my son has it. He was really quite unwell for the first couple of days, coughing, sick, diarrhea, utterly exhausted, but we see an improvement today. Here's hoping that continues.
The reality is Omicron and especially super doper Omicron BA.2, we are all getting exposed and most of us are getting it.
And all the while the MV bed occupancy falls, and so does the ICU occupancy. This could change, but at the moment cases don't matter. Be honest - if we weren't aware of covid we'd just think that there is a nasty cold going round at the moment.
That is very true and is exactly what my many friends who have had it say (even those who were – previously – terrified of covid). There remains, however, a weird stigma about covid that does not apply to colds or flu – we'll have beaten this thing only if and when that bizarre stigma is eradicated.
It's still pretty bloody horrible, even though boosted and no real risk factors beyond being a middle aged bloke. I have had it for a week, and quite shattered at times, bored at others. Usually a cold or "flu" is bad for just a day or two. Only a faint second line on the LFT today, so might even be OK to work on Friday.
Best of luck. Cough etc all gone?
Yes, just feeling drained and fatigued now, with a bit of brain fog. Some headache and sneeze still.
Unnecessary advice, I'm sure, but I think the brain fog was the most worrying. Came in fits and starts for a bit. Even for an OAP it could be alarming.
Look, there’s my weird bar snack on the left. Cheers
Stuff like this makes me appreciate the miracle of the internet. 200 years ago if I wanted to tell you all about the snack I was having I would have had to write you all individual letters with a goose quill, describing my snack with words, then put the sealed letters on a tea clipper bound for England and you’d only have learned about my snack maybe a year later as the letters slowly made their way across the island of Britain in carriages to your various hovels and mansions. Now I can just do this:
This is what the internet was FOR, all along
My office today is the 10am London to Aberdeen train, where two sets of train crew are keeping me plied with drinks and food. Have read loads of negatives about these new trains but they're a very comfy place to while away the hours in first class.
Photos. We need photos!
It's not as exciting as your office
I find stuff like this fascinating. How people actually live and work. It’s like those Zoom screen shots of politicians’ homes. I scour them for clues as to the personality. What books do they read? The details are endlessly intriguing. I am sure this is an evolutionary drive - it’s the same drive that makes gossip so addictive
That looks rather nice as mobile offices go. What’s that you’re eating? Some kind of curry? Any good?
Also: zero Coke AND tea/coffee. You needed a buzz
I'm only on the train as its the last week of easyJet running a reduced timetable from Aberdeen. Flew down late Sunday, spent all day Monday with the Romanian client and his team looking at his new project. With what is coming out the other end of that and what it means for me I described as one of my best working days in years.
Tuesday spent in the City and Holborn looking at office space for the client's main project. Found one that is perfect, in budget and available for March as we need. Would have flown home last night but no easyJet til Thursday and an extra night in the hotel plus 1st class on the train is still cheaper than BA.
So today spent reviewing stuff from the last two days and having a relaxed trip north. Plenty of caffeine having had a very interrupted night's sleep (something woke me at 3am and brain decided to start processing work stuff). Yes, vegetable dupiaza in the picture, plus a chicken sandwich earlier and several rounds of crisps and biscuits.
Comments
I told you all on Monday that this was a very bad subliminal message for Labour to deal with, tying Starmer to Savile
I think you're right: she's manoeuvring.
Laughable.
It's just sick on every level. Awful.
How do you do it? Genuine Q. No offence intended
Ironically, it was our ejection from the ERM that paved the way for this country's stunning economic boom over the next 20 years.
She doesn't have to burnish her right wing credentials with the wider Party, of course.
I quite admire her for that
The drop in revenue must be brutal.
And he thinks he's funny. So did Jimmy Savile.
Not much changes.
More now on the latest infection estimates from the ONS, which cover the week ending 29 January.
The ONS say the rates for people testing positive were high but flat in England and rose in Wales and Northern Ireland. The trend was less certain in Scotland.
For that time period, these were estimated numbers with Covid:
1 in 20 people in England
1 in 30 people in Scotland
1 in 20 people in Wales
1 in 15 people in Northern Ireland
And I could have been so much ruder…..
He gets read the riot act by the Speaker at the start of PMQs and decides that repeating the same slur is the right strategy.
Its almost as if he has no political nous except that hired in from people like Crosby and Cummings. And yet HY etc keep insisting he is a political genius. Political pillock more like.
She is rabidly authoritarian yet pretends she is not. She appears to be, quite literally, an old fashioned hang-em and flog-em type of Home Secretary. Okay to be fair I have never heard her mention flogging but she has in the past being strongly in favour of the death penalty and I think her fundamental view is still in favour even if she cannot admit that publicly. There is no subtlety about her and the only language she seems to understand in terms of her job is that of threat and force.
I will be very glad when she is away from the Home Office.
I agree with you.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/oct/24/jimmy-savile-dpp-2009-evidence
Cameron told the house that the DPP had ordered a review of the evidence considered by the CPS in 2009 relating to indecent assault allegations against Savile from the 1970s. The evidence was submitted by Surrey police, which began an investigation in 2007.
Fairly conclusive that this was on SKS's watch, not that I hold it against him. Whether or not it should have been escalated to the DPP in the first place, I don't know.
In the immortal words of Del Boy "And I am hoping that Millwall will win the Uefa Cup."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DrsVhzbLzU
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10468183/Daily-Covid-stats-ditched-not-APRIL.html
No point dragging it up again in 2024.
I have absolutely no idea how the CPS works but I would imagine that for such a high profile case someone senior took the decision.
In all seriousness, it is very sensible move. I don't think it is really helping anybody now to keep seeing these figures, and then most people won't know a lot of the nuances behind them.
There is the issue of long covid. I suspect its over stated, but for sure some have debilitating conditions arising from covid infection. All the evidence suggests that vaccination helps mitigate the risk of long covid too.
Its hard to transition from state sponsored terror campaign about how bad covid is (even Whitty with the advent of omicron) to a more rational place where we have done what we can, and its time to get back to normal. We do need to do this though.
The mitigation we get from occasional humour is trivial when weighed against the burden of his hypocrisy, dishonesty, flakiness and downright abusiveness that he inflicts on readers of this site.
It happened in September 1992 and he was in office (albeit, as Lamont famously put it, possibly not in power) until April 1997.
There were a range of other issues that probably made 1997 unwinnable even if Black Wednesday hadn't happened. The economic recovery from the recession was pretty anaemic for quite a while (necessitating tax rises, which were badly mishandled). There were huge sleaze problems. There were divisions on wider European issues in particular. Historic underinvestment in health and education was becoming very visible. And there was an exceptionally able young Labour leader setting himself against an extremely tired Tory Party and a leader whose "big idea" seemed to many to be the Cones Hotline.
Hospitals
That should happen, but mad things do happen when there is a row between national governments and powerful cities. I was in Washington in summer 97 and schools had a delayed opening as there wasn't enough money to do so.
That looks rather nice as mobile offices go. What’s that you’re eating? Some kind of curry? Any good?
Also: zero Coke AND tea/coffee. You needed a buzz
As I posted the other day she hasn't been seen around the constituency for quite a while.
I don't like her views at all though, and, discussing some local restoration activity, when someone suggested her to open it, several members of the committee expressed very strong opposition.
Alan Partridge is a creation of genius, but I do understand why Coogan loathes his creation.
You’re not alone. I like her and admire her. I also - God help me - slightly fancy her
The psychology of this is a problem, for sure.
@DPJHodges
·
18m
It’s clear there’s a much more significant degree of organisation amongst the parliamentary party against Boris.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1488895139531661315
I stick to my very positive view of her.
Lots of memories of first class trips to London and of course a lifetime love of all things trains
Quite a few years ago now, of course.
Positive tests tell few stories now the link between them and morbidity has massively weakened, and the benchmark has changed anyway. So arguably not a great deal of point continuing with them much longer.
On the other hand, they did have David Steel and Alan Beith who could bore for Britain.
Quite broad in the beam, but one can, er, overlook that
Any identifying evidence can and should be removed, of course, but all else must stay
Larks!
Unless they wish to see very poor quality C# code and even worse documentation.
Whatever it is she doesn't deserve the unpopularity.
Real Programmers (the heirs of Mel*) need at least a 34" - in 4K.
*https://www.cs.utah.edu/~elb/folklore/mel.html
PS: Making nonsense claims - e.g. it’s just like a bad cold - is not going to be very persuasive.
A silly tawdry man being brought down by something silly and tawdry is much more just.
Tuesday spent in the City and Holborn looking at office space for the client's main project. Found one that is perfect, in budget and available for March as we need. Would have flown home last night but no easyJet til Thursday and an extra night in the hotel plus 1st class on the train is still cheaper than BA.
So today spent reviewing stuff from the last two days and having a relaxed trip north. Plenty of caffeine having had a very interrupted night's sleep (something woke me at 3am and brain decided to start processing work stuff). Yes, vegetable dupiaza in the picture, plus a chicken sandwich earlier and several rounds of crisps and biscuits.