The point has been made on here before but it only takes tory voters to sit on their hands for the party to get a complete shellacking. They don't even need to drift to labour or the lib dems in huge numbers.
Did you even read the article? You really are the pits sometimes. Go back and read Allister's piece. It's published in the Telegraph not some leftie paper and within it you will find the reasons why so, so, so many Conservative voters are so totally pissed off at the moment.
Alternatively don't. Spread your approach. Labour will win. Big.
r4 6 pm news leading on kabul. Lot of mileage left in that. Goldsmith been told to explain to Lords why he lied to them.
Just on that, the media have been showing lots of cuddly puppies all day as part of the evacuation and I would suggest not to underestimate just how popular their evacuation is with large parts of the population
Dog ownership has exploded during covid and I cannot recall a time when I have seen so many families out with their dogs on Llandudno and Colwyn Bays beaches and promenades
Dog prices have more than trebled, with even bog standard cockapoo puppies now selling for £2500-£3000.
But, as companies start to insist that their office workers start to return to the office, there are signs that the number of dogs being given in to rescue centres is on the rise.
Really and I hope the worse fears of dogs being abandoned do not materialise
Mind you my beloved wife would adopt them all if she could
..
Interesting dog. Part Bedlington terrier? Though the ears and tail suggest a mixed breed. Quite distinctive.
Pumi. Recognised as a breed in its own right in Hungary since the 1920s and by both the US and UK kennel clubs just within the last few years.
I have seen one before I think, though it was black. Sheepdogs that have the unusual technique of jumping on sheep if I remember. Mine is a Portuguese Podengo Pequeno.
I think a fair few Britons prefer dogs to people.
With apologies to Indy:
"Snakes Dogs! Why did it have to be snakes dogs?!"
It's mystifying enough that people can be bothered to spend time and money owning these dogshit generators, but what really perplexes me is the assumption that we will all be pleased and impressed by photographic evidence of the fact.
Anyway, off to have a dump. I'll be sure to post a pic.
Laters
We should send all dogs to Korea.
Now cats, those are beautiful creatures, everyone should have one.
Our daughter and family have both
And we had our own cats and fostered others when we were younger
Did you even read the article? You really are the pits sometimes. Go back and read Allister's piece. It's published in the Telegraph not some leftie paper and within it you will find the reasons why so, so, so many Conservative voters are so totally pissed off at the moment.
Alternatively don't. Spread your approach. Labour will win. Big.
Yes I have read the article.
It seems to argue that all the Tories need is reheated Thatcherism on steroids, slash all regulation and go even harder Brexit and declare war on woke and they will sweep to victory.
Ignoring the fact most of the redwall voters who voted Tory for the first time in 2019 also voted for Brown in 2010, they may be cultural conservatives, they are not economic Thatcherites.
As I also pointed out current polls show a hung parliament, not even a Labour majority, let alone a 1997 style Labour landslide.
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Did you even read the article? You really are the pits sometimes. Go back and read Allister's piece. It's published in the Telegraph not some leftie paper and within it you will find the reasons why so, so, so many Conservative voters are so totally pissed off at the moment.
Alternatively don't. Spread your approach. Labour will win. Big.
Yes I have read the article.
It seems to argue that all the Tories need is reheated Thatcherism on steroids, slash all regulation and go even harder Brexit and declare war on woke and they will sweep to victory.
Ignoring the fact most of the redwall voters who voted Tory for the first time in 2019 also voted for Brown in 2010, they may be cultural conservatives, they are not economic Thatcherites.
As I also pointed out current polls show a hung parliament, not even a Labour majority, let alone a 1997 style Labour landslide.
'Reheated Thatcherism?' that's Reform's manifesto mate, hands off it.
You stole Brexit from us, you stole lockdown from the Chinese Communist Party, you stole net zero from the Greens. Tories? just a bunch of political magpies these days.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
Johnson attended a birthday party thrown in his honour in Downing St during the first Covid lockdown, when social gatherings indoors were banned. Mr Burns later told Channel 4 News: “He was in a sense, ambushed with a cake." However now the PM says there was no cake afterall. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486791576038875144
Anywhere Johnson and Cummings go, there's plenty of fruitcake around.
And closets. Maybe the cake jumped out of a closet, that sounds good for an ambush.
Gay dinosaur birthday cake, even? As per DUP, whom it would certainly terrify.
r4 6 pm news leading on kabul. Lot of mileage left in that. Goldsmith been told to explain to Lords why he lied to them.
Just on that, the media have been showing lots of cuddly puppies all day as part of the evacuation and I would suggest not to underestimate just how popular their evacuation is with large parts of the population
Dog ownership has exploded during covid and I cannot recall a time when I have seen so many families out with their dogs on Llandudno and Colwyn Bays beaches and promenades
Dog prices have more than trebled, with even bog standard cockapoo puppies now selling for £2500-£3000.
But, as companies start to insist that their office workers start to return to the office, there are signs that the number of dogs being given in to rescue centres is on the rise.
Really and I hope the worse fears of dogs being abandoned do not materialise
Mind you my beloved wife would adopt them all if she could
..
Interesting dog. Part Bedlington terrier? Though the ears and tail suggest a mixed breed. Quite distinctive.
Pumi. Recognised as a breed in its own right in Hungary since the 1920s and by both the US and UK kennel clubs just within the last few years.
I have seen one before I think, though it was black. Sheepdogs that have the unusual technique of jumping on sheep if I remember. Mine is a Portuguese Podengo Pequeno.
I think a fair few Britons prefer dogs to people.
With apologies to Indy:
"Snakes Dogs! Why did it have to be snakes dogs?!"
It's mystifying enough that people can be bothered to spend time and money owning these dogshit generators, but what really perplexes me is the assumption that we will all be pleased and impressed by photographic evidence of the fact.
Anyway, off to have a dump. I'll be sure to post a pic.
Laters
We should send all dogs to Korea.
Now cats, those are beautiful creatures, everyone should have one.
Wouldn't mind them if they only didn't shit in my garden. And they are not my cats. Ditto eat the songbirds which have now almost completely disappeared.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
r4 6 pm news leading on kabul. Lot of mileage left in that. Goldsmith been told to explain to Lords why he lied to them.
Just on that, the media have been showing lots of cuddly puppies all day as part of the evacuation and I would suggest not to underestimate just how popular their evacuation is with large parts of the population
Dog ownership has exploded during covid and I cannot recall a time when I have seen so many families out with their dogs on Llandudno and Colwyn Bays beaches and promenades
Dog prices have more than trebled, with even bog standard cockapoo puppies now selling for £2500-£3000.
But, as companies start to insist that their office workers start to return to the office, there are signs that the number of dogs being given in to rescue centres is on the rise.
Really and I hope the worse fears of dogs being abandoned do not materialise
Mind you my beloved wife would adopt them all if she could
..
Interesting dog. Part Bedlington terrier? Though the ears and tail suggest a mixed breed. Quite distinctive.
Pumi. Recognised as a breed in its own right in Hungary since the 1920s and by both the US and UK kennel clubs just within the last few years.
I have seen one before I think, though it was black. Sheepdogs that have the unusual technique of jumping on sheep if I remember. Mine is a Portuguese Podengo Pequeno.
I think a fair few Britons prefer dogs to people.
With apologies to Indy:
"Snakes Dogs! Why did it have to be snakes dogs?!"
It's mystifying enough that people can be bothered to spend time and money owning these dogshit generators, but what really perplexes me is the assumption that we will all be pleased and impressed by photographic evidence of the fact.
Anyway, off to have a dump. I'll be sure to post a pic.
Laters
We should send all dogs to Korea.
Now cats, those are beautiful creatures, everyone should have one.
Wouldn't mind them if they only didn't shit in my garden. And they are not my cats. Ditto eat the songbirds which have now almost completely disappeared.
Cats love the taste of antifreeze, and it kills them stone dead
People who think “Wokeness” is just a silly rehash of “political correctness gone mad” are sinister morons. Woke is infinitely more dangerous. It seeks to deconstruct western cultural pride and self confidence, until the Chinese just stomp all over us
Why do you hunt out all these slightly mad right-wing sites to source your "Wokestapo" stuff?
(By the way, 'Wokestapo" is particularly feeble for a literary giant like you. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it?)
Every quote they use, as they say, comes direct from Princeton Uni
Okay. So why don't you give us the links direct from Princeton Uni then, rather than mediated with commentary from a far-right website? Let's read the primary sources for ourselves.
Oh, and can you at least agree that your use of "Wokestapo" is poor, for several reasons, at least one of them rather obvious?
If one must be used I'd have thought Wokerazzi would work better.
r4 6 pm news leading on kabul. Lot of mileage left in that. Goldsmith been told to explain to Lords why he lied to them.
Just on that, the media have been showing lots of cuddly puppies all day as part of the evacuation and I would suggest not to underestimate just how popular their evacuation is with large parts of the population
Dog ownership has exploded during covid and I cannot recall a time when I have seen so many families out with their dogs on Llandudno and Colwyn Bays beaches and promenades
Dog prices have more than trebled, with even bog standard cockapoo puppies now selling for £2500-£3000.
But, as companies start to insist that their office workers start to return to the office, there are signs that the number of dogs being given in to rescue centres is on the rise.
Really and I hope the worse fears of dogs being abandoned do not materialise
Mind you my beloved wife would adopt them all if she could
..
Interesting dog. Part Bedlington terrier? Though the ears and tail suggest a mixed breed. Quite distinctive.
Pumi. Recognised as a breed in its own right in Hungary since the 1920s and by both the US and UK kennel clubs just within the last few years.
I have seen one before I think, though it was black. Sheepdogs that have the unusual technique of jumping on sheep if I remember. Mine is a Portuguese Podengo Pequeno.
I think a fair few Britons prefer dogs to people.
With apologies to Indy:
"Snakes Dogs! Why did it have to be snakes dogs?!"
It's mystifying enough that people can be bothered to spend time and money owning these dogshit generators, but what really perplexes me is the assumption that we will all be pleased and impressed by photographic evidence of the fact.
Anyway, off to have a dump. I'll be sure to post a pic.
Laters
We should send all dogs to Korea.
Now cats, those are beautiful creatures, everyone should have one.
Wouldn't mind them if they only didn't shit in my garden. And they are not my cats. Ditto eat the songbirds which have now almost completely disappeared.
Cats love the taste of antifreeze, and it kills them stone dead
FOR GOD'S SAKE KEEP THIS TO YOURSELF
Don't understand a word of it, me.
just thinking of the nature reserve near Adelaide which had a high and electrified anti-cat fence and where we glamped overnight oin our own, with periodic outings to look at the monotremes and marsupials. Wall to wall. Best wildlife night of my life.
The founder wore a cat fur hat, Kit Carson style. Certainly got publicity.
That is the newspaper which basically claimed it was an amusing comic rather than serious news to get out of paying a massive penalty for defamation or something.
My eldest son is reaching an age when he will soon be broadly aware of what a Prime Minister is and who they are. If the Tory rebels fail to depose BoJo and he bats on much longer, then my son’s first memory of a Prime Minister will be of Boris Johnson, someone who will now always carry a reputation for lying, cheating and rule breaking. All the things that healthy societies try to teach their children not to do.
I don’t know if HY has children or not but he would do well to look past partisan Party or personal interest and consider instead whether he thinks this Prime Minister is someone that our children should admire and model their own behaviour against. The same goes of course for the 200-300 ordinary Tory MPs who are the only ones with the power to do anything about it.
4x% of the electorate voted for a lying cheat who breaks the rules, so HY no doubt believes Boris has a free pass to do whatever he wants. Your son doesn't have a vote so doesn't count.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
Last time I was in Johannesburg the hotel served dinner in the traditional Afrikaner style, with everyone around the same table. Most were from other bits of the country, and spent the evening entertaining each other with anecdotes about the last time they were car-jacked. One in his own driveway in Durban, at gunpoint returning from the supermarket.
The hotel itself was typical for the area, and had a double gate system like an airlock so that cars could be admitted, without robbers sneaking in. Most houses had security notices, warning intruders of armed response. Driving through the outskirts to the Lowveldt the highway was often marked with signs "do not stop, carjacking hotspot".
It is a lovely country, and tourist areas fairly safe, but the crime rates in the cities are horrific.
Not new. But he's a lying pig anyway. But PB regulars' fantabulous doggie shots, awwww, vs irrelevant darkies.
I don't follow your point. Do you think people are incapable of acknowledging or believing Boris is a liar if they post some dog pictures rather than react to or mention every instance of him telling an untruth? If not, I don't see what the connection is.
That is the newspaper which basically claimed it was an amusing comic rather than serious news to get out of paying a massive penalty for defamation or something.
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
Every time I go to the beach near me - EVERY time - I see abandoned dog poo bags. I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
I propose an experiment - tell everyone they don't need to pick up and dispose of their dog crap for an entire week.
I am pretty confident we would see a dog shit apocalypse, as most do normally pick up and dispose of the crap. But perhaps I would be proven wrong and the increase in feces would be marginal.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
I propose an experiment - tell everyone they don't need to pick up and dispose of their dog crap for an entire week.
I am pretty confident we would see a dog shit apocalypse, as most do normally pick up and dispose of the crap. But perhaps I would be proven wrong and the increase in feces would be marginal.
Imagine the statistics we would have on that in this thread.
I just looked at some crime stats for south africa and compared them to the UK. SA has about 5000 murders per quarter, whereas the UK had about 150 in the same period.
Total recorded crime on the other hand is significantly higher in the UK. About 6.5 million per year, compared with 2.6 million in SA.
I would guess that it is simply the case that a lot of crime is not reported in SA. Its fair to say that I am not in any hurry to go there.
People who think “Wokeness” is just a silly rehash of “political correctness gone mad” are sinister morons. Woke is infinitely more dangerous. It seeks to deconstruct western cultural pride and self confidence, until the Chinese just stomp all over us
Why do you hunt out all these slightly mad right-wing sites to source your "Wokestapo" stuff?
(By the way, 'Wokestapo" is particularly feeble for a literary giant like you. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue, does it?)
Every quote they use, as they say, comes direct from Princeton Uni
Okay. So why don't you give us the links direct from Princeton Uni then, rather than mediated with commentary from a far-right website? Let's read the primary sources for ourselves.
Oh, and can you at least agree that your use of "Wokestapo" is poor, for several reasons, at least one of them rather obvious?
If one must be used I'd have thought Wokerazzi would work better.
Not new. But he's a lying pig anyway. But PB regulars' fantabulous doggie shots, awwww, vs irrelevant darkies.
I don't follow your point. Do you think people are incapable of acknowledging or believing Boris is a liar if they post some dog pictures rather than react to or mention every instance of him telling an untruth? If not, I don't see what the connection is.
It is possible to like both dogs and refugees, and also to be the sort of person who hates both.
Did you even read the article? You really are the pits sometimes. Go back and read Allister's piece. It's published in the Telegraph not some leftie paper and within it you will find the reasons why so, so, so many Conservative voters are so totally pissed off at the moment.
Alternatively don't. Spread your approach. Labour will win. Big.
Yes I have read the article.
It seems to argue that all the Tories need is reheated Thatcherism on steroids, slash all regulation and go even harder Brexit and declare war on woke and they will sweep to victory.
Ignoring the fact most of the redwall voters who voted Tory for the first time in 2019 also voted for Brown in 2010, they may be cultural conservatives, they are not economic Thatcherites.
As I also pointed out current polls show a hung parliament, not even a Labour majority, let alone a 1997 style Labour landslide.
'Reheated Thatcherism?' that's Reform's manifesto mate, hands off it.
You stole Brexit from us, you stole lockdown from the Chinese Communist Party, you stole net zero from the Greens. Tories? just a bunch of political magpies these days.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
Every time I go to the beach near me - EVERY time - I see abandoned dog poo bags. I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
Sure, there are anti-social dogs and owners, but that is a problem of people, not the animals.
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Yes I can see how silly it was if only i had posted about the best way to kill a cat.
Then i would have been able to look far less silly and come over as all intellectually superior too.
ok maybe a bad example that would make me look pretty stupid too
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
Last time I was in Johannesburg the hotel served dinner in the traditional Afrikaner style, with everyone around the same table. Most were from other bits of the country, and spent the evening entertaining each other with anecdotes about the last time they were car-jacked. One in his own driveway in Durban, at gunpoint returning from the supermarket.
The hotel itself was typical for the area, and had a double gate system like an airlock so that cars could be admitted, without robbers sneaking in. Most houses had security notices, warning intruders of armed response. Driving through the outskirts to the Lowveldt the highway was often marked with signs "do not stop, carjacking hotspot".
It is a lovely country, and tourist areas fairly safe, but the crime rates in the cities are horrific.
I spent a week in Joburg a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised by what seemed to be fairly safe streets, even at night, and the optimistic frame of mind of my colleagues there. It certainly belies the reputation. Likewise the generally friendly vibe of Soweto.
But I remember looking at murder dates by city when I got back, and what was notable (aside from the way Latin America dominates the league table) was the Cape Town, Durban etc are all way more dangerous than Johannesburg. It’s still got a high murder rate but well below its fellow SA cities and below the likes of Detroit or Baltimore (though I would guess the overall crime rate is higher than anywhere in the US).
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
Every time I go to the beach near me - EVERY time - I see abandoned dog poo bags. I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
Sure, there are anti-social dogs and owners, but that is a problem of people, not the animals.
This could also be partly explained by local councils not provideng enough dogbins in the area....
Not new. But he's a lying pig anyway. But PB regulars' fantabulous doggie shots, awwww, vs irrelevant darkies.
I don't follow your point. Do you think people are incapable of acknowledging or believing Boris is a liar if they post some dog pictures rather than react to or mention every instance of him telling an untruth? If not, I don't see what the connection is.
It is possible to like both dogs and refugees, and also to be the sort of person who hates both.
Sure.
Equally there's things this site is about, and things it really isn’t. I mean, I wouldn't start posting intimate shots of my wife's genitalia and then get all tooth-sucky about the absolute state of the misogyny on here, if anyone objected
He's a big jessie, he's from Scotland, I can deal with him, I've dealt with ex prisoners before.
I seem to recall when they did up one the town centre pubs in St. Andrews from being very much a locals pub to one that subsequently attracted a posh student crowd that Ferguson and his mates visited one evening very early after the renovation.
I just looked at some crime stats for south africa and compared them to the UK. SA has about 5000 murders per quarter, whereas the UK had about 150 in the same period.
Total recorded crime on the other hand is significantly higher in the UK. About 6.5 million per year, compared with 2.6 million in SA.
I would guess that it is simply the case that a lot of crime is not reported in SA. Its fair to say that I am not in any hurry to go there.
We have crime deserts in the UK. Neighbourhoods, where, despite crime being all around, some classes of crime are not recorded at all.
Is it because local incarnation son the Buddha have reduced the citizenry to Unitarian levels of niceness? Or....
My eldest son is reaching an age when he will soon be broadly aware of what a Prime Minister is and who they are. If the Tory rebels fail to depose BoJo and he bats on much longer, then my son’s first memory of a Prime Minister will be of Boris Johnson, someone who will now always carry a reputation for lying, cheating and rule breaking. All the things that healthy societies try to teach their children not to do.
I don’t know if HY has children or not but he would do well to look past partisan Party or personal interest and consider instead whether he thinks this Prime Minister is someone that our children should admire and model their own behaviour against. The same goes of course for the 200-300 ordinary Tory MPs who are the only ones with the power to do anything about it.
4x% of the electorate voted for a lying cheat who breaks the rules, so HY no doubt believes Boris has a free pass to do whatever he wants. Your son doesn't have a vote so doesn't count.
One possible solution is to just bring up your children up with very low expectations of politicians. It is sad that this is approach is necessary, but Johnson and Trump have made it inevitable.
Not new. But he's a lying pig anyway. But PB regulars' fantabulous doggie shots, awwww, vs irrelevant darkies.
I don't follow your point. Do you think people are incapable of acknowledging or believing Boris is a liar if they post some dog pictures rather than react to or mention every instance of him telling an untruth? If not, I don't see what the connection is.
It is possible to like both dogs and refugees, and also to be the sort of person who hates both.
Sure.
Equally there's things this site is about, and things it really isn’t. I mean, I wouldn't start posting intimate shots of my wife's genitalia and then get all tooth-sucky about the absolute state of the misogyny on here, if anyone objected
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Bless
The most dickless riposte in the history of the site
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Bless
The most dickless riposte in the history of the site
I'm not a pet dog person. They smell for starters, but not so bad as foxes. But working dogs can be powerfully effective, guarding or herding, and providing doting yappy companionship to the old or infirm. I wonder how many heavy thinkers like Einstein, Newton, Hans Bethe, Schopenhauer, etc, had pet dogs. Stop-start thinking can be difficult, or at least I find it so.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
My wife is South African, and she has a very similar experience (including multiple homicides). The rate of violent death there is off the charts.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
Every time I go to the beach near me - EVERY time - I see abandoned dog poo bags. I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
Sure, there are anti-social dogs and owners, but that is a problem of people, not the animals.
This could also be partly explained by local councils not provideng enough dogbins in the area....
Well, no, because if there isn't a council bin dogshit, you have the choice between taking your baggie home in your car and putting it in your own bin, or just dumping it. Is that a really hard decision?
"Denmark will lift nearly all Covid restrictions within days and return to 'life as we knew it before corona' after vaccine programme proved a 'super-weapon' – despite soaring cases
Denmark will remove all domestic Covid-19 restrictions from next Tuesday The Danish PM said the country's high vaccination rate was behind the decision She said that the milder Omicron variant was no longer 'threatening to society' The move has set a precedent for other European countries to follow suit despite high case numbers across the continent"
Not new. But he's a lying pig anyway. But PB regulars' fantabulous doggie shots, awwww, vs irrelevant darkies.
I don't follow your point. Do you think people are incapable of acknowledging or believing Boris is a liar if they post some dog pictures rather than react to or mention every instance of him telling an untruth? If not, I don't see what the connection is.
It is possible to like both dogs and refugees, and also to be the sort of person who hates both.
Sure.
Equally there's things this site is about, and things it really isn’t. I mean, I wouldn't start posting intimate shots of my wife's genitalia and then get all tooth-sucky about the absolute state of the misogyny on here, if anyone objected
Yes, but the topic being discussed is Pen Farthings dogs being evacuated.
Pointing out that many Britons are dog lovers and approved at the time is a valid point. There was quite a popular campaign to fund and authorise his charter flight.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
Every time I go to the beach near me - EVERY time - I see abandoned dog poo bags. I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
Sure, there are anti-social dogs and owners, but that is a problem of people, not the animals.
This could also be partly explained by local councils not provideng enough dogbins in the area....
Well, no, because if there isn't a council bin dogshit, you have the choice between taking your baggie home in your car and putting it in your own bin, or just dumping it. Is that a really hard decision?
Judging from the state of large areas of Cannock Chase, it would seem not. Most people deciding on option b...
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
My wife is South African, and she has a very similar experience (including multiple homicides). The rate of violent death there is off the charts.
Your wife has experienced multiple homicides?
I am assuming that unless you married either a zombie or psychopath, a fairly significant section on 'among friends and family' was missing.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
My wife is South African, and she has a very similar experience (including multiple homicides). The rate of violent death there is off the charts.
Your wife has experienced multiple homicides?
I am assuming that unless you married either a zombie or psychopath, a fairly significant section on 'among friends and family' was missing.
He's a big jessie, he's from Scotland, I can deal with him, I've dealt with ex prisoners before.
I seem to recall when they did up one the town centre pubs in St. Andrews from being very much a locals pub to one that subsequently attracted a posh student crowd that Ferguson and his mates visited one evening very early after the renovation.
There was then quite a bit of further renovation.
I've never heard that story but I wonder if it was the Central? That used to be a proper pub back in the day but got tarted up and became a bit of a yah watering hole IIRC.
Commons Speaker and animal lover Sir Lindsay Hoyle just now in a broadcast pool interview speaking about Pen Farthing:
“I’m an animal lover but I also love people as well”
… as he says there’s a story to come out - but it’s not for him to judge
Totally nothing to do with anything, but I really fucking can't stand Hoyle. Makes my skin crawl. Don't even know why.
More than the Readers' Dogshit Production Facility intimate pix dominating this thread?
High bar
At least dog owners usually clean it up. Cats, on the other hand ...
They fucking don't, they put it in bags and then leave the bags about when no one is looking
Every time I go to the beach near me - EVERY time - I see abandoned dog poo bags. I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
Sure, there are anti-social dogs and owners, but that is a problem of people, not the animals.
This could also be partly explained by local councils not provideng enough dogbins in the area....
Well, no, because if there isn't a council bin dogshit, you have the choice between taking your baggie home in your car and putting it in your own bin, or just dumping it. Is that a really hard decision?
Judging from the state of large areas of Cannock Chase, it would seem not. Most people deciding on option b...
To think some were moaning about a few dog pics, when they’ve taken the discussion directly to the heart of local politics, as anyone who has served as a councillor will know. Much more ‘on topic’ than posting and reposting the score in whatever is the latest national cricketing debacle.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
My wife is South African, and she has a very similar experience (including multiple homicides). The rate of violent death there is off the charts.
Yes, it can be an extraordinarily violent country.
On holiday is fine, the areas are safer, and the constant awareness of who is around when you are parking, or walking is not that bad. Living like that, day in, day out is very wearing indeed.
Being robbed is possible anywhere, but SA is like the USA is a place where it may well be fatal, rather than unpleasant.
'Obviously it's handy when the government you're opposing becomes totally engulfed in scandal (not to mention an active police investigation) but Boris Johnson isn't the only person who's been helping Keir Starmer boost his profile this last little while.
We hear Starmer has apparently been getting a bit of outside assistance recently, helping to train him up for media appearances. From Dermot O'Leary.'
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
My wife is South African, and she has a very similar experience (including multiple homicides). The rate of violent death there is off the charts.
Your wife has experienced multiple homicides?
I am assuming that unless you married either a zombie or psychopath, a fairly significant section on 'among friends and family' was missing.
'Obviously it's handy when the government you're opposing becomes totally engulfed in scandal (not to mention an active police investigation) but Boris Johnson isn't the only person who's been helping Keir Starmer boost his profile this last little while.
We hear Starmer has apparently been getting a bit of outside assistance recently, helping to train him up for media appearances. From Dermot O'Leary.'
I would be astonished if any front line politician didn't get media coaching. Even I have had it!
How many times are Tories and Corbyn Tories going to post this poll this evening?
If you dont like Polls reverting to small Labour leads or even Tories retaking the lead i would stay off here for the next month or two Pete
"Any other leader would be 20pts ahead" - Blair
Lionel?
I think he is dead but his corpse has more charisma than SKS
I am no Starmer enthusiast, however compared to what came before he is head and shoulders better. He may well get a caning against Johnson or who may come next. Starmer has not (yet) led his party into the outrageous racist disrepute your boy did, which is a huge feather in his cap.
Did you never worry back in the day about a "real" socialist like Len enjoying the luxury lifestyle with his tied homes and chauffeur driven limousines and more on his Union expense account, spending hard working members' subs?
You mentioned Nellist earlier, and hats off to Nellist for his stand on taking his MPs salary. But Nellist was a blinkered idealogue, he never ever made a difference because he was lost in his Marxist wonderland.
'Obviously it's handy when the government you're opposing becomes totally engulfed in scandal (not to mention an active police investigation) but Boris Johnson isn't the only person who's been helping Keir Starmer boost his profile this last little while.
We hear Starmer has apparently been getting a bit of outside assistance recently, helping to train him up for media appearances. From Dermot O'Leary.'
I would be astonished if any front line politician didn't get media coaching. Even I have had it!
I remember the days when the big scandal of the day was a diplomatic leaks that said George Osborne recently had media training...
I'm not a pet dog person. They smell for starters, but not so bad as foxes. But working dogs can be powerfully effective, guarding or herding, and providing doting yappy companionship to the old or infirm. I wonder how many heavy thinkers like Einstein, Newton, Hans Bethe, Schopenhauer, etc, had pet dogs. Stop-start thinking can be difficult, or at least I find it so.
Having said all that I think it would have been wonderfully primitive (atavistic?) to have the company of a middle-sized mongrel to accompany me on my long cross country runs. Can such dogs run long distances?
Coffey and the DWP's policy is as repulsive as ever, I see, on the day of Sunak' s counter-productive announcement.
"An evaluation on the effectiveness of benefit sanctions has been blocked by the work and pensions secretary Thérèse Coffey, it has emerged, as fresh government plans to impose financial penalties on jobless claimants who refuse any job offered to them were widely criticised as cruel and “missing the point”.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) commissioned its own internal research on the effectiveness of sanctions in 2019 and explicitly promised to make the findings public, in part to settle an ongoing political row over whether sanctions were effective – as ministers insisted they were – in persuading people into work. Nearly three years later, as the DWP prepares to enforce a fresh wave of sanctions, it has emerged that the department buried the report and refused requests for it to be released, insisting that the study included “details of a sensitive nature” and it was in the “public interest” to keep the findings under wraps."
I am reliably informed tomorrows Daily Politics starts with David Cameronin the shower with a concerned George Osborne looking on and shouting come on Dave you are going all wrinkly in there
Coffey and the DWP's policy is as repulsive as ever, I see, on the day of Sunak' s counter-productive announcement.
"An evaluation on the effectiveness of benefit sanctions has been blocked by the work and pensions secretary Thérèse Coffey, it has emerged, as fresh government plans to impose financial penalties on jobless claimants who refuse any job offered to them were widely criticised as cruel and “missing the point”.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) commissioned its own internal research on the effectiveness of sanctions in 2019 and explicitly promised to make the findings public, in part to settle an ongoing political row over whether sanctions were effective – as ministers insisted they were – in persuading people into work. Nearly three years later, as the DWP prepares to enforce a fresh wave of sanctions, it has emerged that the department buried the report and refused requests for it to be released, insisting that the study included “details of a sensitive nature” and it was in the “public interest” to keep the findings under wraps."
Wretched.
I really hate not using evidence when making policy because it doesn’t give the right answer.
How many times are Tories and Corbyn Tories going to post this poll this evening?
If you dont like Polls reverting to small Labour leads or even Tories retaking the lead i would stay off here for the next month or two Pete
"Any other leader would be 20pts ahead" - Blair
Lionel?
I think he is dead but his corpse has more charisma than SKS
I am no Starmer enthusiast, however compared to what came before he is head and shoulders better. He may well get a caning against Johnson or who may come next. Starmer has not (yet) led his party into the outrageous racist disrepute your boy did, which is a huge feather in his cap.
Did you never worry back in the day about a "real" socialist like Len enjoying the luxury lifestyle with his tied homes and chauffeur driven limousines and more on his Union expense account, spending hard working members' subs?
You mentioned Nellist earlier, and hats off to Nellist for his stand on taking his MPs salary. But Nellist was a blinkered idealogue, he never ever made a difference because he was lost in his Marxist wonderland.
I am reliably informed tomorrows Daily Politics starts with David Cameronin the shower with a concerned George Osborne looking on and shouting come on Dave you are going all wrinkly in there
Your comedy is better directed than your political antenna.
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Bless
The most dickless riposte in the history of the site
'Obviously it's handy when the government you're opposing becomes totally engulfed in scandal (not to mention an active police investigation) but Boris Johnson isn't the only person who's been helping Keir Starmer boost his profile this last little while.
We hear Starmer has apparently been getting a bit of outside assistance recently, helping to train him up for media appearances. From Dermot O'Leary.'
I would be astonished if any front line politician didn't get media coaching. Even I have had it!
I remember the days when the big scandal of the day was a diplomatic leaks that said George Osborne recently had media training...
Latest on George is that he has awoken Dave from his bad dream and is helping with the wrinkles.
I know a number of SAs that have moved to the UK and every single one of them say its because of the incredible high levels of violent crime and not just theoretical on paper numbers, everybody they know in SA have been a victim and often despite living in rich gates areas with private security.
Fwiw, Francis, I was in Hilton, a suburb of PMB generally referred to as 'a white enclave'. It isn't 'gated' though, and I didn't notice any of these. You certainly notice a mix of whites and blacks around generally and you don't feel inclined to cross the road if you see a group of young black males walking towards you.
The only time I froze a bit was when I saw a heavily armed security guard outside a bank, but that was because of a pending delivery and the fact that banks remain a soft target for armed robbers. Apart from that I can't recall seeing anybody but a policeman with a gun. That would not be true in many parts of the 1st World, notably the USA where it is common to see guns in civilian hands.
The malls were generally friendly and warm places to visit. I'm sure I could have found some nastier spots easily enough, but I would have had to go look for them.
I'm not disputing your friends' experiences. I can only report my own honestly and fairly.
The thing is the stats back up my friends experiences as the norm not yours.
My BIL is South African, now working in London. As far as I can tell the reason he and many of his friends left is to make money, rather than to escape from crime. Many of them have hopes to return in later life.
My wife is South African and there's not a chance in hell she'd return nor any of her family. The crime she talks about there is utterly horrific. A world unimaginable to this country.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
My wife is South African, and she has a very similar experience (including multiple homicides). The rate of violent death there is off the charts.
Your wife has experienced multiple homicides?
I am assuming that unless you married either a zombie or psychopath, a fairly significant section on 'among friends and family' was missing.
Two homicides, one road death, one carjacking at gunpoint, and multiple armed burglaries among people very close to her.
Coffey and the DWP's policy is as repulsive as ever, I see, on the day of Sunak' s counter-productive announcement.
"An evaluation on the effectiveness of benefit sanctions has been blocked by the work and pensions secretary Thérèse Coffey, it has emerged, as fresh government plans to impose financial penalties on jobless claimants who refuse any job offered to them were widely criticised as cruel and “missing the point”.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) commissioned its own internal research on the effectiveness of sanctions in 2019 and explicitly promised to make the findings public, in part to settle an ongoing political row over whether sanctions were effective – as ministers insisted they were – in persuading people into work. Nearly three years later, as the DWP prepares to enforce a fresh wave of sanctions, it has emerged that the department buried the report and refused requests for it to be released, insisting that the study included “details of a sensitive nature” and it was in the “public interest” to keep the findings under wraps."
Wretched.
I think the idea of sanctions in principle is hard to divorce from the culture enforcing them. Under trained staff financially incentivised by targets to save money by sanctioning is a recipie for abuse. Typically this is by picking on the vulnerable rather than tackling the hardcore.
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Bless
The most dickless riposte in the history of the site
Comments
Alternatively don't. Spread your approach. Labour will win. Big.
Woman walks out of the bathroom. "Does my bum look big in this?"
"To be fair it's a very small bathroom"
It seems to argue that all the Tories need is reheated Thatcherism on steroids, slash all regulation and go even harder Brexit and declare war on woke and they will sweep to victory.
Ignoring the fact most of the redwall voters who voted Tory for the first time in 2019 also voted for Brown in 2010, they may be cultural conservatives, they are not economic Thatcherites.
As I also pointed out current polls show a hung parliament, not even a Labour majority, let alone a 1997 style Labour landslide.
Tortured - where we keep our apples
Assume the claim was that there was an orgy involving sex with twelve year old children, and a cake. You are saying Hur hur hur, THERE WAS NO CAKE, you must feel reeeeely silly now
The fact that you can be sold this line, and are selling it on, and have a vote (if you do), is sub optimal.
Don't mind me, I'm amusing myself here.
You stole Brexit from us, you stole lockdown from the Chinese Communist Party, you stole net zero from the Greens. Tories? just a bunch of political magpies these days.
1. Boris would make the best Prime Minister out of those too.
2. Boris should be fired from being Prime Minister.
In the past year two of her friends have been murdered. Separate, unrelated incidents. A third was shot but survived a couple of years ago.
FOR GOD'S SAKE KEEP THIS TO YOURSELF
Duncan Ferguson joins Frank Lampard and Vitor Pereira in hunt for Everton job
Exclusive: Everton want to make an appointment on Friday and Ferguson is now a surprise candidate who will be interviewed
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2022/01/27/frank-lampard-set-second-everton-interview-latest-twist-clubs/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/27/dozens-attended-downing-street-parties-can-pay-fines-instead/
just thinking of the nature reserve near Adelaide which had a high and electrified anti-cat fence and where we glamped overnight oin our own, with periodic outings to look at the monotremes and marsupials. Wall to wall. Best wildlife night of my life.
The founder wore a cat fur hat, Kit Carson style. Certainly got publicity.
https://aso.gov.au/titles/documentaries/wamsleys-war/clip1/
Your son doesn't have a vote so doesn't count.
The hotel itself was typical for the area, and had a double gate system like an airlock so that cars could be admitted, without robbers sneaking in. Most houses had security notices, warning intruders of armed response. Driving through the outskirts to the Lowveldt the highway was often marked with signs "do not stop, carjacking hotspot".
It is a lovely country, and tourist areas fairly safe, but the crime rates in the cities are horrific.
Personally I'm waiting for moth season.
I have an idle fantasy of catching someone doing this, then following them home and delivering their properly back to them, through an open window perhaps.
I am pretty confident we would see a dog shit apocalypse, as most do normally pick up and dispose of the crap. But perhaps I would be proven wrong and the increase in feces would be marginal.
Total recorded crime on the other hand is significantly higher in the UK. About 6.5 million per year, compared with 2.6 million in SA.
I would guess that it is simply the case that a lot of crime is not reported in SA. Its fair to say that I am not in any hurry to go there.
Then i would have been able to look far less silly and come over as all intellectually superior too.
ok maybe a bad example that would make me look pretty stupid too
But I remember looking at murder dates by city when I got back, and what was notable (aside from the way Latin America dominates the league table) was the Cape Town, Durban etc are all way more dangerous than Johannesburg. It’s still got a high murder rate but well below its fellow SA cities and below the likes of Detroit or Baltimore (though I would guess the overall crime rate is higher than anywhere in the US).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate
Equally there's things this site is about, and things it really isn’t. I mean, I wouldn't start posting intimate shots of my wife's genitalia and then get all tooth-sucky about the absolute state of the misogyny on here, if anyone objected
There was then quite a bit of further renovation.
"Between July 2021 to end of September 2021, 6 163 people were killed in South Africa."
https://www.gov.za/speeches/speaking-notes-delivered-police-minister-general bheki-cele-mp-occasion-release- quarter
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingjune2021
Is it because local incarnation son the Buddha have reduced the citizenry to Unitarian levels of niceness? Or....
Denmark will remove all domestic Covid-19 restrictions from next Tuesday
The Danish PM said the country's high vaccination rate was behind the decision
She said that the milder Omicron variant was no longer 'threatening to society'
The move has set a precedent for other European countries to follow suit despite high case numbers across the continent"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10449063/Denmark-lift-nearly-Covid-restrictions-return-life-knew-corona.html
Pointing out that many Britons are dog lovers and approved at the time is a valid point. There was quite a popular campaign to fund and authorise his charter flight.
I am assuming that unless you married either a zombie or psychopath, a fairly significant section on 'among friends and family' was missing.
'Boris Johnson could not have been "ambushed" by a cake at a 10 Downing St birthday party when Covid restrictions were in force because there was no cake there, the Prime Minister has told his' 'allies.
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486791571328712711?s=20&t=ZnFGL4h-nc2Zc6QEyv8HCw
In an unexpected twist in the 'partygate' saga which is gripping Westminster, Conor Burns, one of his inner circle, told today's Chopper's Politics podcast: "I'm told under some authority indeed from him that actually wasn't a cake."
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486791573190938626?s=20&t=ZnFGL4h-nc2Zc6QEyv8HCw
On holiday is fine, the areas are safer, and the constant awareness of who is around when you are parking, or walking is not that bad. Living like that, day in, day out is very wearing indeed.
Being robbed is possible anywhere, but SA is like the USA is a place where it may well be fatal, rather than unpleasant.
'Obviously it's handy when the government you're opposing becomes totally engulfed in scandal (not to mention an active police investigation) but Boris Johnson isn't the only person who's been helping Keir Starmer boost his profile this last little while.
We hear Starmer has apparently been getting a bit of outside assistance recently, helping to train him up for media appearances. From Dermot O'Leary.'
Did you never worry back in the day about a "real" socialist like Len enjoying the luxury lifestyle with his tied homes and chauffeur driven limousines and more on his Union expense account, spending hard working members' subs?
You mentioned Nellist earlier, and hats off to Nellist for his stand on taking his MPs salary. But Nellist was a blinkered idealogue, he never ever made a difference because he was lost in his Marxist wonderland.
"An evaluation on the effectiveness of benefit sanctions has been blocked by the work and pensions secretary Thérèse Coffey, it has emerged, as fresh government plans to impose financial penalties on jobless claimants who refuse any job offered to them were widely criticised as cruel and “missing the point”.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) commissioned its own internal research on the effectiveness of sanctions in 2019 and explicitly promised to make the findings public, in part to settle an ongoing political row over whether sanctions were effective – as ministers insisted they were – in persuading people into work. Nearly three years later, as the DWP prepares to enforce a fresh wave of sanctions, it has emerged that the department buried the report and refused requests for it to be released, insisting that the study included “details of a sensitive nature” and it was in the “public interest” to keep the findings under wraps."
Wretched.
There was no party
There was no PM
I am reliably informed tomorrows Daily Politics starts with David Cameronin the shower with a concerned George Osborne looking on and shouting come on Dave you are going all wrinkly in there
SKS offers the square route of FA
"Yes. This man has no dick."
So yeah...