Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Lords a-leaping – politicalbetting.com

1356789

Comments

  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,104
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    OT Is George Osborne wondering what might have been, had he not chucked it all in?

    I suspect Mr 10 jobs is looking at his bank balance and laughing
    Really?

    Maybe it's me but I'd settle for £1m + being PM rather than £100m and no power.
    It looks to me that being PM isn't as much fun as it sounds. Our would be "World King" is only the latest in a long line to be trashed by the job.
    Who was the last PM to leave with head held high and dignity intact?
    May- broken by the job
    Cameron- broken by the referendum
    Brown- broken by the job
    Blair- left sort of on his own terms, but the job sent him mad
    Major- broken and defeated
    Thatcher- went mad, then her party deposed her
    Callaghan was before my time; was his defeat dignified?
    If not, we're back to Wilson.

    Maybe the job of PM really is undoable, and destroys all who crave it.
    Think Callaghan was reasonably dignified. He remained well liked. As did Major to be fair. And Blair stepped down. I don't think it's as bleak as you paint it.
    One thing that I deplore is leaders stepping down the day after a GE defeat.
    Or a referendum...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,981
    edited January 19
    Deleted
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,981
    edited January 19
    Sound advice from @Cyclefree . Never accept a caution from or fly solo with the Old Bill.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 21,036
    edited January 19

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not sure these proposals are all that radical. As a Wiganer I distinctly remember being subject to random stop and search on suspicion of intention to attend a protest based purely on my starting location.
    Then we were told which parts of the country we could and couldn't travel to.
    But that was during the Strike and we weren't middle class. I don't remember a great deal of libertarian outrage at the time.

    Not sure how proletarian one had to be. I remember one of the better political reminiscences on PB - alas I forget the name; about being a drinks company representative at that time, being stopped and encouraged to donate the contents of his boot to refresh the plod.
    No. Alas. Basically. Where you from? (And numberplates were a pretty big tell in those days).
    Turn around. You aren't free to travel around the country.
    Regardless of your intentions.
    Quite stunning it has been erased from the collective memory.
    Was just a tad more intrusive than having to wear a mask in Asda.
    And cheered to the rafters by the Right.
    The police behaved pretty disgracefully during the miner's strike. No reason to give them even more powers now.

    I really hope this Bill dies a death. Having another leader but keeping the same bad laws is - to me - no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

    Maybe one or two of you will read the header. The stuff in the Bill may be dull compared to the No 10 comedy act but it is important.

    Sigh......
    Anecdote Alert.

    When my son was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum aged around 8 years old, my wife asked the consultant for a single piece of advice that we should take away from the diagnosis. His advice was never ever allow him to be interviewed by the police, particularly under caution, without legal representation, which was rather telling. He quoted Stefan Kishko.

    When I was very, very young, during the Miner's strike, I was a Sales Rep for Courage the Brewers. I called mainly at Co-ops and off-licences in West Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, South Lincs. and Rutland. Rutland was covered by the Leicestershire Constabulary area, and West Leicestershire had a number of mines. On crossing into Rutland on one occasion I was stopped by Officers from the Met Police (yes the Met Police). They cleaned me out of the cases of samples I had in the boot- no point arguing I thought. I even had to help load the beer into their bus from my car. A year or two later I went to a wedding in Bolton. The groom worked for Greater Manchester Police and I regaled my story. He told me his. He said he made a fortune in overtime patroling the Warwickshire coalfields. On one occasion they were staying in a hostel recently vacated by the Met. He said somewhere along the M1 the Met bus was stopped and the hostel tellys were recovered.

    I have told my children to be very polite to, but very cautious of the police. My youngest son detests them. I would limit rather than increase their power!
    I can't agree more. I remember seeing pictures of the police in the miners strike waving wads of cash in the faces of the picket line, their overtime money.

    Never help the police with their enquiries. Remember, the only reason they ask you questions is because they don't have the evidence to charge until you give it to them.
    Although. My uncle was a regular Bobby. He made huge sums during the Strike, but struggled to reconcile the behaviour of many of his colleagues. He was a working class Wiganer, who joined the Police precisely to avoid having to go down t'pit. He collected for the Strike fund in his spare time. Wigan Police was a source of healthy donations. Many of his mates suffered.
    He took to drink, and died at an early age.
    Not all coppers are bastards.
    Agreed. There's enough wrong uns around though.
    I think much of the culture changed with those events.
    From an acceptably "manly" way of being a compassionate public servant. To a honeypot for thick bullies to congregate around.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,981
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not sure these proposals are all that radical. As a Wiganer I distinctly remember being subject to random stop and search on suspicion of intention to attend a protest based purely on my starting location.
    Then we were told which parts of the country we could and couldn't travel to.
    But that was during the Strike and we weren't middle class. I don't remember a great deal of libertarian outrage at the time.

    Not sure how proletarian one had to be. I remember one of the better political reminiscences on PB - alas I forget the name; about being a drinks company representative at that time, being stopped and encouraged to donate the contents of his boot to refresh the plod.
    No. Alas. Basically. Where you from? (And numberplates were a pretty big tell in those days).
    Turn around. You aren't free to travel around the country.
    Regardless of your intentions.
    Quite stunning it has been erased from the collective memory.
    Was just a tad more intrusive than having to wear a mask in Asda.
    And cheered to the rafters by the Right.
    The police behaved pretty disgracefully during the miner's strike. No reason to give them even more powers now.

    I really hope this Bill dies a death. Having another leader but keeping the same bad laws is - to me - no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

    Maybe one or two of you will read the header. The stuff in the Bill may be dull compared to the No 10 comedy act but it is important.

    Sigh......
    Anecdote Alert.

    When my son was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum aged around 8 years old, my wife asked the consultant for a single piece of advice that we should take away from the diagnosis. His advice was never ever allow him to be interviewed by the police, particularly under caution, without legal representation, which was rather telling. He quoted Stefan Kishko.

    When I was very, very young, during the Miner's strike, I was a Sales Rep for Courage the Brewers. I called mainly at Co-ops and off-licences in West Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, South Lincs. and Rutland. Rutland was covered by the Leicestershire Constabulary area, and West Leicestershire had a number of mines. On crossing into Rutland on one occasion I was stopped by Officers from the Met Police (yes the Met Police). They cleaned me out of the cases of samples I had in the boot- no point arguing I thought. I even had to help load the beer into their bus from my car. A year or two later I went to a wedding in Bolton. The groom worked for Greater Manchester Police and I regaled my story. He told me his. He said he made a fortune in overtime patroling the Warwickshire coalfields. On one occasion they were staying in a hostel recently vacated by the Met. He said somewhere along the M1 the Met bus was stopped and the hostel tellys were recovered.

    I have told my children to be very polite to, but very cautious of the police. My youngest son detests them. I would limit rather than increase their power!
    I can't agree more. I remember seeing pictures of the police in the miners strike waving wads of cash in the faces of the picket line, their overtime money.

    Never help the police with their enquiries. Remember, the only reason they ask you questions is because they don't have the evidence to charge until you give it to them.
    Although. My uncle was a regular Bobby. He made huge sums during the Strike, but struggled to reconcile the behaviour of many of his colleagues. He was a working class Wiganer, who joined the Police precisely to avoid having to go down t'pit. He collected for the Strike fund in his spare time. Wigan Police was a source of healthy donations. Many of his mates suffered.
    He took to drink, and died at an early age.
    Not all coppers are bastards.
    Agreed. There's enough wrong uns around though.
    I think much of the culture changed with those events.
    From an acceptably "manly" way of being a compassionate public servant. To a honeypot for thick bullies to congregate around.
    Hopefully true. Wayne Couzens and Co. suggest the improvement is still a work in progress.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,104
    Sounds fair.

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1483590020158169096?s=20

    Senior Tory backbencher says go to bed
    11:59 PM · Jan 18, 2022
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,327
    edited January 19

    Sound advice from @Cyclefree . Never accept a caution from or fly solo with the Old Bill.

    This story from May 2020 (note the date) - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/lockdown-blues/ - about the police and those who stay silent on wrongdoing when they should speak up neatly combines both this header and the other main news story of today.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not sure these proposals are all that radical. As a Wiganer I distinctly remember being subject to random stop and search on suspicion of intention to attend a protest based purely on my starting location.
    Then we were told which parts of the country we could and couldn't travel to.
    But that was during the Strike and we weren't middle class. I don't remember a great deal of libertarian outrage at the time.

    Not sure how proletarian one had to be. I remember one of the better political reminiscences on PB - alas I forget the name; about being a drinks company representative at that time, being stopped and encouraged to donate the contents of his boot to refresh the plod.
    No. Alas. Basically. Where you from? (And numberplates were a pretty big tell in those days).
    Turn around. You aren't free to travel around the country.
    Regardless of your intentions.
    Quite stunning it has been erased from the collective memory.
    Was just a tad more intrusive than having to wear a mask in Asda.
    And cheered to the rafters by the Right.
    The police behaved pretty disgracefully during the miner's strike. No reason to give them even more powers now.

    I really hope this Bill dies a death. Having another leader but keeping the same bad laws is - to me - no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

    Maybe one or two of you will read the header. The stuff in the Bill may be dull compared to the No 10 comedy act but it is important.

    Sigh......
    Anecdote Alert.

    When my son was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum aged around 8 years old, my wife asked the consultant for a single piece of advice that we should take away from the diagnosis. His advice was never ever allow him to be interviewed by the police, particularly under caution, without legal representation, which was rather telling. He quoted Stefan Kishko.

    When I was very, very young, during the Miner's strike, I was a Sales Rep for Courage the Brewers. I called mainly at Co-ops and off-licences in West Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, South Lincs. and Rutland. Rutland was covered by the Leicestershire Constabulary area, and West Leicestershire had a number of mines. On crossing into Rutland on one occasion I was stopped by Officers from the Met Police (yes the Met Police). They cleaned me out of the cases of samples I had in the boot- no point arguing I thought. I even had to help load the beer into their bus from my car. A year or two later I went to a wedding in Bolton. The groom worked for Greater Manchester Police and I regaled my story. He told me his. He said he made a fortune in overtime patroling the Warwickshire coalfields. On one occasion they were staying in a hostel recently vacated by the Met. He said somewhere along the M1 the Met bus was stopped and the hostel tellys were recovered.

    I have told my children to be very polite to, but very cautious of the police. My youngest son detests them. I would limit rather than increase their power!
    I can't agree more. I remember seeing pictures of the police in the miners strike waving wads of cash in the faces of the picket line, their overtime money.

    Never help the police with their enquiries. Remember, the only reason they ask you questions is because they don't have the evidence to charge until you give it to them.
    Never ever talk to the police without a lawyer present.

    Never ever accept a caution.
    My mother-in-law had a neighbour who was bat***t crazy and who kept writing letters to people accusing them of slighting her over weird stuff. One day two police officers turned up and told my incredulous mother-in-law that she had been reported for attempting to run over her neighbour's dogs and that they intended to caution her. She refused to accept a caution on the basis that the only evidence supplied was by the neighbour with no corroboration. She suggested that the Police were welcome to investigate further, and recommended that they contact a well known local judge who had also been on the receiving end of the neighbour who would provide information regarding the reliability (or lack of) of the her character. They left.
    Were these two clowns working on the quota system? Like with traffic tickets (in some/many jurisdictions)?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,981
    edited January 19
    Cyclefree said:

    Sound advice from @Cyclefree . Never accept a caution from or fly solo with the Old Bill.

    This story from May 2020 (note the date) - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/lockdown-blues/ - about the police and those who stay silent on wrongdoing when they should speak up neatly combines both this header and the other main news story of today.
    I'm 60 next month, an old man, and I am still as wary of the b******* as I was half a century ago, so i play by the rules.

    It really ***** me off that Boris Johnson is protected from his outrageous behaviour by his connections, his super injunctions, and his...well, whatever influence he has over Cressida Dick.
  • Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not sure these proposals are all that radical. As a Wiganer I distinctly remember being subject to random stop and search on suspicion of intention to attend a protest based purely on my starting location.
    Then we were told which parts of the country we could and couldn't travel to.
    But that was during the Strike and we weren't middle class. I don't remember a great deal of libertarian outrage at the time.

    Not sure how proletarian one had to be. I remember one of the better political reminiscences on PB - alas I forget the name; about being a drinks company representative at that time, being stopped and encouraged to donate the contents of his boot to refresh the plod.
    No. Alas. Basically. Where you from? (And numberplates were a pretty big tell in those days).
    Turn around. You aren't free to travel around the country.
    Regardless of your intentions.
    Quite stunning it has been erased from the collective memory.
    Was just a tad more intrusive than having to wear a mask in Asda.
    And cheered to the rafters by the Right.
    The police behaved pretty disgracefully during the miner's strike. No reason to give them even more powers now.

    I really hope this Bill dies a death. Having another leader but keeping the same bad laws is - to me - no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

    Maybe one or two of you will read the header. The stuff in the Bill may be dull compared to the No 10 comedy act but it is important.

    Sigh......
    Anecdote Alert.

    When my son was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum aged around 8 years old, my wife asked the consultant for a single piece of advice that we should take away from the diagnosis. His advice was never ever allow him to be interviewed by the police, particularly under caution, without legal representation, which was rather telling. He quoted Stefan Kishko.

    Ironically Stefan Kishko's lawyer during his trial was David Waddington, who was Mrs Thatcher's last Home Secretary.

    He was also a supporter of the death penalty despite the fact his own inept defense of Kishko would have likely led to a capital sentence had it been legal at the time.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,981

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not sure these proposals are all that radical. As a Wiganer I distinctly remember being subject to random stop and search on suspicion of intention to attend a protest based purely on my starting location.
    Then we were told which parts of the country we could and couldn't travel to.
    But that was during the Strike and we weren't middle class. I don't remember a great deal of libertarian outrage at the time.

    Not sure how proletarian one had to be. I remember one of the better political reminiscences on PB - alas I forget the name; about being a drinks company representative at that time, being stopped and encouraged to donate the contents of his boot to refresh the plod.
    No. Alas. Basically. Where you from? (And numberplates were a pretty big tell in those days).
    Turn around. You aren't free to travel around the country.
    Regardless of your intentions.
    Quite stunning it has been erased from the collective memory.
    Was just a tad more intrusive than having to wear a mask in Asda.
    And cheered to the rafters by the Right.
    The police behaved pretty disgracefully during the miner's strike. No reason to give them even more powers now.

    I really hope this Bill dies a death. Having another leader but keeping the same bad laws is - to me - no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

    Maybe one or two of you will read the header. The stuff in the Bill may be dull compared to the No 10 comedy act but it is important.

    Sigh......
    Anecdote Alert.

    When my son was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum aged around 8 years old, my wife asked the consultant for a single piece of advice that we should take away from the diagnosis. His advice was never ever allow him to be interviewed by the police, particularly under caution, without legal representation, which was rather telling. He quoted Stefan Kishko.

    Ironically Stefan Kishko's lawyer during his trial was David Waddington, who was Mrs Thatcher's last Home Secretary.

    He was also a supporter of the death penalty despite the fact his own inept defense of Kishko would have likely led to a capital sentence had it been legal at the time.
    Indeed, well remembered. Were it not for the tenacity of a local journalist Kishko would have died in jail, as it was justice was hardly served and he passed away soon after his release. A truly disgraceful case.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,196
    Interesting, looks like footage made by UK MOD and then released to local media.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,483
    For some reason "RAF in Kiev" made me think of "Tiger prawns in garlic butter". Getting my moths and prawns mixed up. Time for bed. Tomorrow could be a big day.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,981
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Not sure these proposals are all that radical. As a Wiganer I distinctly remember being subject to random stop and search on suspicion of intention to attend a protest based purely on my starting location.
    Then we were told which parts of the country we could and couldn't travel to.
    But that was during the Strike and we weren't middle class. I don't remember a great deal of libertarian outrage at the time.

    Not sure how proletarian one had to be. I remember one of the better political reminiscences on PB - alas I forget the name; about being a drinks company representative at that time, being stopped and encouraged to donate the contents of his boot to refresh the plod.
    No. Alas. Basically. Where you from? (And numberplates were a pretty big tell in those days).
    Turn around. You aren't free to travel around the country.
    Regardless of your intentions.
    Quite stunning it has been erased from the collective memory.
    Was just a tad more intrusive than having to wear a mask in Asda.
    And cheered to the rafters by the Right.
    The police behaved pretty disgracefully during the miner's strike. No reason to give them even more powers now.

    I really hope this Bill dies a death. Having another leader but keeping the same bad laws is - to me - no better than putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

    Maybe one or two of you will read the header. The stuff in the Bill may be dull compared to the No 10 comedy act but it is important.

    Sigh......
    Anecdote Alert.

    When my son was diagnosed on the autistic spectrum aged around 8 years old, my wife asked the consultant for a single piece of advice that we should take away from the diagnosis. His advice was never ever allow him to be interviewed by the police, particularly under caution, without legal representation, which was rather telling. He quoted Stefan Kishko.

    Ironically Stefan Kishko's lawyer during his trial was David Waddington, who was Mrs Thatcher's last Home Secretary.

    He was also a supporter of the death penalty despite the fact his own inept defense of Kishko would have likely led to a capital sentence had it been legal at the time.
    Indeed, well remembered. Were it not for the tenacity of a local journalist Kishko would have died in jail, as it was justice was hardly served and he passed away soon after his release. A truly disgraceful case.
    I have just read that story, and it's utterly horrific.
    A terrible and tragic salutory tale for those like Priti Patel who advocate state sponsored revenge killings.

    One of the reasons I find Johnson's political causality so offensive is that I could imagine, without the constraints of Brussels, he is free to throw any old red meat at voters to absorb their vote. Now he is no more an advocate of capital punishment than I am, but then he was no more a Leaver than I was...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 17,086
    "Bitter Fruit: Marshall McLuhan and the Rise of Fake News
    Graham Majin
    18 Jan 2022 15 min read"

    https://quillette.com/2022/01/18/bitter-fruit-is-marshall-mcluhan-responsible-for-the-rise-of-fake-news/
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 6,534
    edited January 19
    An essential header, on which I agree with almost every word.

    A couple of signs of pushback from some Johnson loyalists in this article. This talk of the "pork pie plot" again seems to hint at a class issue between part of the red wall group and some of the Johnson loyalists.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10415969/Dozens-new-intake-Red-Wall-Tory-MPs-launch-pork-pie-plot-bring-Boris-Johnson.html

    Sunak will be praying Russia doesn't invade Ukraine before Gray releases her report. Otherwise we may be stuck with the liar-in-chief for months to come, if not longer.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 17,086
    "‘We failed’: Danish newspaper apologises for not questioning government Covid-19 numbers
    A major newspaper has published a stunning apology to readers, saying it had “failed” in its coverage of Covid-19.

    A Danish newspaper has apologised to its readers for not being critical enough in its reporting of government coronavirus case numbers. In an article in the Ekstra Bladet tabloid last week headlined “We Failed”, journalist Brian Weichardt issued a mea culpa to the public on behalf of the media for not doing more to interrogate Covid-19 statistics. Weichardt wrote that for nearly two years, both the press and the public had been “almost hypnotically preoccupied” with authorities’ daily coronavirus updates, obsessing over infections, hospitalisations and deaths, as the significance of the “smallest movements” was “laid out by experts, politicians and authorities, who have constantly warned us about the dormant corona monster under our beds”. “The constant mental alertness has worn out tremendously on all of us,” he wrote. “That is why we – the press – must also take stock of our own efforts. And we have failed.”"

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/we-failed-danish-newspaper-apologises-for-not-questioning-government-covid19-numbers/news-story/5f360ab5764cf9bcfb0d8edae7160658
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,839
    Foxy said:

    The issue isn't protest. Or at least it shouldn't be. The issue ought to be disruption. We can all be high-minded about rights to free expression and assembly but extinction rebellion and insulate Britain DID cause major disruption i.e harm. People have a right to be angry about that. The Supreme Court might have exploded a legal grenade with its verdict that a certain level of disruption had to be tolerated in a free society. Well what does that mean exactly?

    Many liberty lovers would have applauded that but what if the consequence is the government introducing more draconian laws as a counter measure? Activists judges might actually be their own worst enemy in this. Of course I don't have any confidence in Patel who seems like a minister playing to the gallery in search of favourable tabloid headlines. But one has to understand why she has found such fertile territory.

    Yes but ER and IB protests could have already (and were) dealt with by existing powers. New laws are no substitute for enforcement of existing ones.

    These laws are so draconian that any freedom loving person should make them unenforceable.
    Whilst I agree these laws go too far, you yourself have mentioned how groups of protestors are trained to subvert and use the current laws to their advantage.

    Which may be fine when the protestors are protesting about causes you agree with. Less fine when they'll be, say, the Alpha Men Assemble twunts.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,196
    some speculation overnight that the 1922 Committee Chair Graham Brady (majority 6000 v. Lab in his NW seat) might have got the required number of letters... personally I am not so sure, but the Kuwait crisis didnt stop Mrs T getting the push in 1990 so Ukraine not that important in my opinion.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128
    Andy_JS said:

    "‘We failed’: Danish newspaper apologises for not questioning government Covid-19 numbers
    A major newspaper has published a stunning apology to readers, saying it had “failed” in its coverage of Covid-19.

    A Danish newspaper has apologised to its readers for not being critical enough in its reporting of government coronavirus case numbers. In an article in the Ekstra Bladet tabloid last week headlined “We Failed”, journalist Brian Weichardt issued a mea culpa to the public on behalf of the media for not doing more to interrogate Covid-19 statistics. Weichardt wrote that for nearly two years, both the press and the public had been “almost hypnotically preoccupied” with authorities’ daily coronavirus updates, obsessing over infections, hospitalisations and deaths, as the significance of the “smallest movements” was “laid out by experts, politicians and authorities, who have constantly warned us about the dormant corona monster under our beds”. “The constant mental alertness has worn out tremendously on all of us,” he wrote. “That is why we – the press – must also take stock of our own efforts. And we have failed.”"

    https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/media/we-failed-danish-newspaper-apologises-for-not-questioning-government-covid19-numbers/news-story/5f360ab5764cf9bcfb0d8edae7160658

    Wow, the only journalists in the world with a sense of humility over their Covid coverage? Thousands of others, please take note.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128
    On topic, I don’t envy those trying to work out where to draw the line where a protest becomes a riot.

    Hopefully a bit of ping-pong between the Commons and Lords will come to a sensible compromise, between freedom of speech, and blocking ambulances from motorways while police share their tea and biscuits with those responsible.
  • 27th (regeneration) like Vlad

    The mad decision to restrict the Euston road to a single lane at various points has caused more disruption than any XR protests.

    Pretty much impossible to drive east/west through London now.

    From what I remember trying to drive east / west along the Euston Road 20 years ago it was usually disrupted and restricted by traffic jams.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,286
    All ready for a monster inflation number ?
    The cat food yesterday was up to £27.98, was around £24 at the start of lockdown.
    At least fuel was off its high - but over a tonne for 45 litres of fuel and 88 doubly delicious, the times we live in....
    At least this one gives me some more cash through solar...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,839

    27th (regeneration) like Vlad

    The mad decision to restrict the Euston road to a single lane at various points has caused more disruption than any XR protests.

    Pretty much impossible to drive east/west through London now.

    From what I remember trying to drive east / west along the Euston Road 20 years ago it was usually disrupted and restricted by traffic jams.
    A few decades ago I got told a story - I don't know its veracity. A newspaper helped fund London's first air ambulance. It was a large helicopter, larger than the ones they use now, and larger than the service wanted - but as it was free, they took it. One day during trials it landed at a junction outside King's Cross, and whilst landing its rotors hit some traffic or street lights. The 'copter landed safely, but it was too damaged to take off again. Cue much traffic chaos until it could be taken out by road, and the newspaper replacing it with a smaller 'copter.

    (Told to me by an air ambulanceman when a group I was involved with was fundraising for them.)
  • Have just been sent the interview of Boris Johnson by AC-12. Astonishing how fictional coppers having to do the job real coppers refuse to do.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 17,086
    Good morning on what could be a momentous day in British politics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128

    27th (regeneration) like Vlad

    The mad decision to restrict the Euston road to a single lane at various points has caused more disruption than any XR protests.

    Pretty much impossible to drive east/west through London now.

    From what I remember trying to drive east / west along the Euston Road 20 years ago it was usually disrupted and restricted by traffic jams.
    A few decades ago I got told a story - I don't know its veracity. A newspaper helped fund London's first air ambulance. It was a large helicopter, larger than the ones they use now, and larger than the service wanted - but as it was free, they took it. One day during trials it landed at a junction outside King's Cross, and whilst landing its rotors hit some traffic or street lights. The 'copter landed safely, but it was too damaged to take off again. Cue much traffic chaos until it could be taken out by road, and the newspaper replacing it with a smaller 'copter.

    (Told to me by an air ambulanceman when a group I was involved with was fundraising for them.)
    It’s much easier when you don’t have an existing city. Where I live, they design junctions specifically with enough room to land a big helicopter in the middle of them!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128
    Andy_JS said:

    Good morning on what could be a momentous day in British politics.

    Rumours around that Sir Graham Brady has received the 54 letters - in which case, there will be a ballot of MPs probably tomorrow.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,226
    edited January 19
    Good morning everyone. Pleased to see that the local MP's flagship bill has been severely damaged.
    Fractionally warmer here this morning but I suspect there are some chill winds in the Downing St/Chequers areas.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,503
    Sandpit said:

    27th (regeneration) like Vlad

    The mad decision to restrict the Euston road to a single lane at various points has caused more disruption than any XR protests.

    Pretty much impossible to drive east/west through London now.

    From what I remember trying to drive east / west along the Euston Road 20 years ago it was usually disrupted and restricted by traffic jams.
    A few decades ago I got told a story - I don't know its veracity. A newspaper helped fund London's first air ambulance. It was a large helicopter, larger than the ones they use now, and larger than the service wanted - but as it was free, they took it. One day during trials it landed at a junction outside King's Cross, and whilst landing its rotors hit some traffic or street lights. The 'copter landed safely, but it was too damaged to take off again. Cue much traffic chaos until it could be taken out by road, and the newspaper replacing it with a smaller 'copter.

    (Told to me by an air ambulanceman when a group I was involved with was fundraising for them.)
    It’s much easier when you don’t have an existing city. Where I live, they design junctions specifically with enough room to land a big helicopter in the middle of them!
    RAF mates (once) operated a Harrier from 'RAF St. Pancras'. For the 1969 Trans Atlantic Air Race.



    They should have another go at the East to West record in an F-35.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    27th (regeneration) like Vlad

    The mad decision to restrict the Euston road to a single lane at various points has caused more disruption than any XR protests.

    Pretty much impossible to drive east/west through London now.

    From what I remember trying to drive east / west along the Euston Road 20 years ago it was usually disrupted and restricted by traffic jams.
    A few decades ago I got told a story - I don't know its veracity. A newspaper helped fund London's first air ambulance. It was a large helicopter, larger than the ones they use now, and larger than the service wanted - but as it was free, they took it. One day during trials it landed at a junction outside King's Cross, and whilst landing its rotors hit some traffic or street lights. The 'copter landed safely, but it was too damaged to take off again. Cue much traffic chaos until it could be taken out by road, and the newspaper replacing it with a smaller 'copter.

    (Told to me by an air ambulanceman when a group I was involved with was fundraising for them.)
    It’s much easier when you don’t have an existing city. Where I live, they design junctions specifically with enough room to land a big helicopter in the middle of them!
    RAF mates (once) operated a Harrier from 'RAF St. Pancras'. For the 1969 Trans Atlantic Air Race.



    They should have another go at the East to West record in an F-35.
    That’s awesome, I have learned something already today!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6989763/Daily-Mail-Great-Transatlantic-Air-Race-images-commemorate-50th-anniversary-event.html

    Yes, of course they should do it again, and of course the RAF should have a go in an F35. What are records for, if not to be broken?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,839
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    27th (regeneration) like Vlad

    The mad decision to restrict the Euston road to a single lane at various points has caused more disruption than any XR protests.

    Pretty much impossible to drive east/west through London now.

    From what I remember trying to drive east / west along the Euston Road 20 years ago it was usually disrupted and restricted by traffic jams.
    A few decades ago I got told a story - I don't know its veracity. A newspaper helped fund London's first air ambulance. It was a large helicopter, larger than the ones they use now, and larger than the service wanted - but as it was free, they took it. One day during trials it landed at a junction outside King's Cross, and whilst landing its rotors hit some traffic or street lights. The 'copter landed safely, but it was too damaged to take off again. Cue much traffic chaos until it could be taken out by road, and the newspaper replacing it with a smaller 'copter.

    (Told to me by an air ambulanceman when a group I was involved with was fundraising for them.)
    It’s much easier when you don’t have an existing city. Where I live, they design junctions specifically with enough room to land a big helicopter in the middle of them!
    RAF mates (once) operated a Harrier from 'RAF St. Pancras'. For the 1969 Trans Atlantic Air Race.



    They should have another go at the East to West record in an F-35.
    The other day that famous piccie of someone flying a Hunter under Tower Bridge came onto my FB feed.

    I thought of you, then thought the stunt was a bit too tame for you. ;)
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 2,241
    edited January 19

    Good morning everyone. Pleased to see that the local MP's flagship bill has been severely damaged.
    Fractionally warmer here this morning but I suspect there are some chill winds in the Downing St/Chequers areas.

    Morning. 6 more weeks of winter!

    As @Cyclefree says, perhaps the government will still be claiming victory in relation to all the other stuff it snuck through as 'amendments' to the bill to avoid proper scrutiny.

    On the other hand, taking photos or filming breastfeeding without permission will be criminalised. Hard to argue with that one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792
    edited January 19
    Honestly, BBC, get your basic facts right.

    ‘If 54 MPs submit letters, it would trigger a leadership contest.’

    Downing Street party: Johnson to face MPs as Tories discuss his future
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60047606

    I don’t think I need to explain to PB why that’s not the case.

    My Year 10 Citizenship students could get that right - how come a presumably paid journalist at the country’s premier news organisation can’t?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,200
    Is Boris still PM?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 58,593
    edited January 19
    Good morning, everyone.

    If Sunak gets it, if there is a contest, then we might* have the site's second 250/1 winning tip.

    Edited extra but: *shade sleepy, if that happens then we will have it. No might about it.

    Edited extra bit2: weird, the italic took shoved in a line break with no related formatting.

    Edited extra bit3: weirder still, adding the previous extra bit removed the line break!
  • pingping Posts: 2,211
    CPI 5.4%
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055

    Is Boris still PM?

    Why would you assume he isn’t at the moment ? Unless he has gone in the night and is yet to be discovered.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055
    ping said:

    CPI 5.4%

    Not as bad as I expected.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792
    edited January 19

    Is Boris still PM?

    He’s still the leading Member of the government.

    But possibly not at 9pm.

    Here’s a thought - he may not turn up for PMQs as he tries to rally support in individual meetings and so has no time to prepare. It would be stupid, but most times when given a choice he’s made the wrong choice.
  • TazTaz Posts: 5,055

    Have just been sent the interview of Boris Johnson by AC-12. Astonishing how fictional coppers having to do the job real coppers refuse to do.

    God bless those edgy, middle class centrist Dads. They’ll be patting each other on the back and telling each other how great they are for weeks to come.
  • pingping Posts: 2,211
    RPI 7.7%
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,200
    Taz said:

    Is Boris still PM?

    Why would you assume he isn’t at the moment ? Unless he has gone in the night and is yet to be discovered.
    It was just morning bantz mate
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,226
    darkage said:

    Good morning everyone. Pleased to see that the local MP's flagship bill has been severely damaged.
    Fractionally warmer here this morning but I suspect there are some chill winds in the Downing St/Chequers areas.

    Morning. 6 more weeks of winter!

    As @Cyclefree says, perhaps the government will still be claiming victory in relation to all the other stuff it snuck through as 'amendments' to the bill to avoid proper scrutiny.

    On the other hand, taking photos or filming breastfeeding without permission will be criminalised. Hard to argue with that one.
    Agree with your last para. Some people have very strange minds.

    Underlines the fact, of course, that most things in life are various shades of grey. Some are lighter, of course, than others.
  • pingping Posts: 2,211
    Sorry, RPI 7.5%
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,402
    edited January 19
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792
    Taz said:

    ping said:

    CPI 5.4%

    Not as bad as I expected.
    Not what Johnson needs today of all days though.

    The question is, is this the start of sustained inflation, or a blip? If the latter, it can be contained although it will be painful for all of us in the short term. If the former...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,881
    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,226
    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,742
    edited January 19
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I don’t envy those trying to work out where to draw the line where a protest becomes a riot.

    Hopefully a bit of ping-pong between the Commons and Lords will come to a sensible compromise, between freedom of speech, and blocking ambulances from motorways while police share their tea and biscuits with those responsible.

    The ping pong is over as far as the amendments are concerned. If they want to pursue them, the government will have to start over.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    Cost of living at its highest for 30 years.

    Sunak needs to get out of No.11 as fast as his legs can carry him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,881

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,742
    I see another of Gove's obsessions has proved baseless.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study
    ...analysis of multiple systematic reviews, experimental trials and data from international assessment tests such as Pisa suggests that teaching reading in England may have been less successful since the adoption of the synthetic phonics approach rather than more.

    The UCL researchers are among 250 signatories to a letter which has been sent to education secretary Nadhim Zahawi, calling on the government to allow for a wider range of approaches to teaching reading, which would allow teachers to use their own judgment about which is best for their pupils...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,955
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I don’t envy those trying to work out where to draw the line where a protest becomes a riot.

    Surely it is not that hard?

    Protest: lots of people and noise, probably a lot of litter

    Riot: Things being broken, wrecked or burnt, people with injuries
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,402
    Heathener said:

    Cost of living at its highest for 30 years.

    Sunak needs to get out of No.11 as fast as his legs can carry him.

    Nobody in government is concentrating on their job. The whole lot need to go.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    Given that we're heading into such a fiscal mire I'm still not entirely sure how a multimillionaire hedge fund banker is going to go down with the electorate.

    This won't be fixed in two years.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,200
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    It started in the Lords I believe?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128
    edited January 19
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    Indeed, both Houses need to pass the same Bill, so it makes no sense for the government to amend it between the Commons and the Lords.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,277
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    CPI 5.4%

    Not as bad as I expected.
    Not what Johnson needs today of all days though.

    The question is, is this the start of sustained inflation, or a blip? If the latter, it can be contained although it will be painful for all of us in the short term. If the former...
    The financial press says it's the latter, so it's definitely the former.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,200
    Heathener said:

    Cost of living at its highest for 30 years.

    Sunak needs to get out of No.11 as fast as his legs can carry him.

    To be fair to Sunak, that’s not really his fault. How he deals with it will be key.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792
    Another thought - our resident Johnsonian keeps telling us that under current rules if Johnson gets 183 votes he's safe for a year. Leaving aside the fact that this is untrue, I wonder if that rule might actually hinder Johnson. If a vote is called today, a waverer has to decide, 'now, or in 12 months.' Are they really going to be willing to risk another twelve months of this?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 29,839
    Heathener said:

    Given that we're heading into such a fiscal mire I'm still not entirely sure how a multimillionaire hedge fund banker is going to go down with the electorate.

    This won't be fixed in two years.

    Would you rather a penniless pauper who had spent all his money on wine, women and song?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 28,226
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    They were indeed first introduced in the HoL.

    Ms Patel's concept of democracy appears different to ours!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 39,128

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, I don’t envy those trying to work out where to draw the line where a protest becomes a riot.

    Surely it is not that hard?

    Protest: lots of people and noise, probably a lot of litter

    Riot: Things being broken, wrecked or burnt, people with injuries
    Those definitions seem reasonable to me - but clearly not to others.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792
    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    CPI 5.4%

    Not as bad as I expected.
    Not what Johnson needs today of all days though.

    The question is, is this the start of sustained inflation, or a blip? If the latter, it can be contained although it will be painful for all of us in the short term. If the former...
    The financial press says it's the latter, so it's definitely the former.
    Then I am relieved on a personal level that I have just fixed my mortgage at 1.6% for five years.

    But it's not going to be pretty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 39,742
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    That is exactly what they were; introduced with zero consultation
    Hence the outrage and subsequent rejection.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,955
    edited January 19
    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Perhaps the real issue is that when even a bunch of undemocratic, disreputable beens can see the problems with the Home Secretary's bill, you have to wonder is she merely stupid or is she actively malevolent?

    IMO, Patel as PM could be far worse than Trump
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792

    Heathener said:

    Given that we're heading into such a fiscal mire I'm still not entirely sure how a multimillionaire hedge fund banker is going to go down with the electorate.

    This won't be fixed in two years.

    Would you rather a penniless pauper who had spent all his money on wine, women and song?
    Well, that's what we have now and it's not ending well.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,277

    John Bull
    @garius
    Imagine looking around for your strongest remaining allies and finding only Nadine Dorries and Oliver Dowden.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,792

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Perhaps the real issue is that when even a bunch of undemocratic, disreputable beens can see the problems with the Home Secretary's bill, you have to wonder is she merely stupid or is she actively malevolent?

    IMO, Patel as PM could be far worse than Trump
    False dichotomy. She's both.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,881
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    Indeed, both Houses need to pass the same Bill, so it makes no sense for the government to amend it between the Commons and the Lords.
    They can't amend it. They can propose amendments which is what Patel seems to have done but both Houses would have to agree any proposed changes. But proposals like this should (a) never have been made and (b) should have been debated at Committee in the elected chamber first.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 22,443
    Nigelb said:

    I see another of Gove's obsessions has proved baseless.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study
    ...analysis of multiple systematic reviews, experimental trials and data from international assessment tests such as Pisa suggests that teaching reading in England may have been less successful since the adoption of the synthetic phonics approach rather than more.

    The UCL researchers are among 250 signatories to a letter which has been sent to education secretary Nadhim Zahawi, calling on the government to allow for a wider range of approaches to teaching reading, which would allow teachers to use their own judgment about which is best for their pupils...

    Synthetic phonics are probably the best system for about 60% of children. The troubles is that for the remaining 40% synthetic phonics are anywhere from useless to actively harmful to children's ability to learn to read. Teachers already knew this. The mistake is that Gove insisted schools be tested on children's ability at synthetic phonics.

    Which is insane and, as a central diktat, goes directly against what his reforms were supposedly about (descentralising education)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 32,402

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    They were indeed first introduced in the HoL.

    Ms Patel's concept of democracy appears different to ours!
    Starmer should concentrate on this and inflation at #PMQs, just one or two on Partygate.
  • Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    Yes, as pointed out in the header.

    Patel doesn't just disrespect the right to protest, but democracy itself.
    And that latter point just highlights just how shameful this bill is. It undermines everything that our society is built upon whilst claiming to do the opposite.

    Have heard a few voices say that opposition to the bill means support for XR protestors glued to the floor - far from it! Existing laws cover what we should do to them. No need to have the police free to ban protest
  • eekeek Posts: 19,277
    edited January 19
    And on US politics something to watch


    NY AG James
    @NewYorkStateAG
    We are taking legal action to force Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Jr., and Ivanka Trump to comply with our investigation into the Trump Organization’s financial dealings.

    No one in this country can pick and choose if and how the law applies to them.

    https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1483652354398429184
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,436
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    They were indeed first introduced in the HoL.

    Ms Patel's concept of democracy appears different to ours!
    Starmer should concentrate on this and inflation at #PMQs, just one or two on Partygate.
    Not sure about that - keep hammering on about rulebreaking, that's what has got him in the lead.
    Supporting the rights of protesters doesn't win you votes. Also - Starmer should be talking about energy/food bills, not inflation.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,229
    eek said:

    And on US politics something to watch


    NY AG James
    @NewYorkStateAG
    We are taking legal action to force Donald Trump, Donald Trump, Jr., and Ivanka Trump to comply with our investigation into the Trump Organization’s financial dealings.

    No one in this country can pick and choose if and how the law applies to them.

    https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1483652354398429184

    NY AG: TRUMP TRIPPED UP BY TRIPLING TRIPLEX https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2022/attorney-general-james-takes-action-force-donald-j-trump-donald-trump-jr-and https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1483671479623589888/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,229
    As usual @Dannythefink
    gets to the heart of the dilemma facing Tory MPs: if the PM lacks honesty and integrity, Britain's democratic safeguards that they claim to cherish and are supposed to protect are imperilled. A Trumpian moment for the party.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d5b92ea-787a-11ec-a9ac-7b4ca33c4cb4?shareToken=dfbff81f5058d533db4c54dc69da36a6
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,503
    edited January 19
    Pulpstar said:

    All ready for a monster inflation number ?
    The cat food yesterday was up to £27.98, was around £24 at the start of lockdown.
    At least fuel was off its high - but over a tonne for 45 litres of fuel and 88 doubly delicious, the times we live in....
    At least this one gives me some more cash through solar...

    I just ordered a new 𝒟𝒰𝑅𝒜 𝒜𝒞𝐸 groupset for the upcoming season's race bike and it was over 4 grand! Rotors and pedals not included.

    The last time I bought one in late 2019 (I had too many broken bones to race in 2021) it was £2,900! Almost all Shimano stuff comes in via the Netherlands so it's a Big Beautiful Brexity Bonus.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,277
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Bah, every time you satisfy yourself that the Lords are an undemocratic, disreputable bunch of has beens, never was's, churchmen for goodness sake and corrupt donors who have wrongly bought their way into our legislature with legalised bribes something like this happens.

    The real shame, of course, is on our snivelling or uninterested MPs who let it happen in the first place because they did not do their jobs whilst no doubt pontificating on their virtues or civil servants having a drink after work. And a Home Secretary who is simply not fit for purpose with no concept of the careful balance between the rights of protest in a democratic state and public order, even if it causes irritation and delay for the rest of us from time to time.

    JRM and Nadine are the 2 most obvious departures along with Boris but surely, surely Patel is a third.

    Indeed, however, to be fair to the MP's some of the worst features of the Bill were added AFTER it had been in the Commons.
    I don't understand that. Unless they were new proposed amendments first introduced in the HoL? Which is a disgrace for a bill that started in the Commons. A Home Secretary cannot simply change the bill of her own accord. She needs the approval of Parliament to do so.
    They were indeed first introduced in the HoL.

    Ms Patel's concept of democracy appears different to ours!
    Starmer should concentrate on this and inflation at #PMQs, just one or two on Partygate.
    Not sure about that - keep hammering on about rulebreaking, that's what has got him in the lead.
    Supporting the rights of protesters doesn't win you votes. Also - Starmer should be talking about energy/food bills, not inflation.
    Energy and Food bills alongside Partygate are the topics to discuss - the former attacks the next PM, the latter this one.

    The home secretary's amendments are best handled when they try and get inserted in Parliament.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,436

    Heathener said:

    Cost of living at its highest for 30 years.

    Sunak needs to get out of No.11 as fast as his legs can carry him.

    To be fair to Sunak, that’s not really his fault. How he deals with it will be key.
    We've had essentially no real wage growth for 15 years.
    At some point surely it stops being the fault of Gordon Brown.
  • ajbajb Posts: 43



    Sunak will be praying Russia doesn't invade Ukraine before Gray releases her report. Otherwise we may be stuck with the liar-in-chief for months to come, if not longer.

    Do you think Johnson would actually run a war well? It's pretty essential to have a good PM during a war, and indeed we replaced one at the start of WWII. A war in Ukraine might actually accelerate his departure.

    As a long time admirer of Churchill, Johnson would no doubt find it galling to be cast in the role of Chamberlain, but that could well happen.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,229
    Huge expectation about what today holds but important to remember only one man - Sir Graham Brady - knows how many letters are in.

    Rebels excitable, but possible they are talking up prospects / relying on colleagues who are bluffing.

    Either way today’s PMQs is one to watch.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1483706768001839105
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,160
    edited January 19
    ydoethur said:



    ‘If 54 MPs submit letters, it would trigger a leadership contest.’

    I'm still not convinced. Didn't we have this malarkey with Theresa May when everyone speculated that the threshold for the VONC had been reached when in fact it was nowhere near?

    A question for you political anorakniks: is the VONC vote definitely completely confidential? Or might the whips make it less than confidential and therefore help secure BoJo another 12 months of lame duck premiership? Cabinet ministers must be bricking it, knowing that the ship is sinking and, with it, their whole political careers.

    A question: is Anne Morris still counted as a Conservative MP and able to vote?

  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,955
    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    I see another of Gove's obsessions has proved baseless.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jan/19/focus-on-phonics-to-teach-reading-is-failing-children-says-landmark-study
    ...analysis of multiple systematic reviews, experimental trials and data from international assessment tests such as Pisa suggests that teaching reading in England may have been less successful since the adoption of the synthetic phonics approach rather than more.

    The UCL researchers are among 250 signatories to a letter which has been sent to education secretary Nadhim Zahawi, calling on the government to allow for a wider range of approaches to teaching reading, which would allow teachers to use their own judgment about which is best for their pupils...

    Synthetic phonics are probably the best system for about 60% of children. The troubles is that for the remaining 40% synthetic phonics are anywhere from useless to actively harmful to children's ability to learn to read. Teachers already knew this. The mistake is that Gove insisted schools be tested on children's ability at synthetic phonics.

    Which is insane and, as a central diktat, goes directly against what his reforms were supposedly about (descentralising education)
    It was a bl**dy stupid idea. I had to reteach my kids to read and to this day, one of them still feels the after-effects of phonics. Considering she is doing a PhD in chemistry, intelligence and ability to learn are not in question, but she never reads for pleasure.

    TBF to Gove, when my daughter was learning to read it was under a Labour govt in the early 2000s but her school had latched on to phonics. I knew something was up when she recited the alphabet as "Ahh, Baa, Cuh, Duh, Eay,...."
  • eekeek Posts: 19,277
    https://twitter.com/kirkkorner/status/1483705791379034112
    Tristan Kirk
    @kirkkorner
    A woman prosecuted for breaking lockdown rules told a court she had inadvertently attended an illegal gathering.
    "It was not intentional...I didn't realise there would be others present".

    She was convicted and fined £250
  • eekeek Posts: 19,277
    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:



    ‘If 54 MPs submit letters, it would trigger a leadership contest.’

    I'm still not convinced. Didn't we have this malarkey with Theresa May when everyone speculated that the threshold for the VONC had been reached when in fact it was nowhere near?

    A question for you political anorakniks: is the VONC vote definitely completely confidential? Or might the whips make it less than confidential and therefore help secure BoJo another 12 months of lame duck premiership? Cabinet ministers must be bricking it, knowing that the ship is sinking and, with it, their whole political careers.

    A question: is Anne Morris still counted as a Conservative MP and able to vote?

    No, which is why its currently 54 letters required and no longer 55 letters.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,229
    EXC: Boris Johnson’s woes escalate as @YouGov poll shows Tories plunging startling 32 points behind Labour in London over “Partygate” scandal as frenzied talk grows of a no-confidence vote in the PM https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/yougov-poll-labour-lead-london-boris-johnson-party-downing-st-plan-b-b977489.html https://twitter.com/nicholascecil/status/1483707742737076224/photo/1
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 5,955
    Scott_xP said:

    Huge expectation about what today holds but important to remember only one man - Sir Graham Brady - knows how many letters are in.

    Rebels excitable, but possible they are talking up prospects / relying on colleagues who are bluffing.

    Either way today’s PMQs is one to watch.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1483706768001839105

    It will be interesting to see if the PB Tories "big up" Boris afterwards! "I thought he did rather well. Starmer was rubbish..."
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,229
    EXC: Boris Johnson to replace all Tory MPs with millennials and zoomers who have no idea how to write a letter.
    https://twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1483707784533262338
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 9,503
    ajb said:



    Sunak will be praying Russia doesn't invade Ukraine before Gray releases her report. Otherwise we may be stuck with the liar-in-chief for months to come, if not longer.

    Do you think Johnson would actually run a war well? It's pretty essential to have a good PM during a war, and indeed we replaced one at the start of WWII. A war in Ukraine might actually accelerate his departure.

    As a long time admirer of Churchill, Johnson would no doubt find it galling to be cast in the role of Chamberlain, but that could well happen.
    It won't really matter how good he would or would not be (spoiler: he'd be shit) because if NATO gets in a shooting war with Russia over Ukraine it'll go nuclear within a week.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,281
    edited January 19
    Scott_xP said:

    Nadine, raging against the dying of the light...

    Exclusive:

    Nadine Dorries hits out at 'disloyal' plotters

    'The people who are doing this are being disloyal to PM, the party, their constituents and to the wider country

    'The only reason their constituents voted for them is because Boris Johnson was standing as PM'
    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1483566263435677700/photo/1

    When will we take to heart the message of “Don’t You Want Me Baby?” by the Human League?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,229
    DougSeal said:

    When will we take to heart the message of “Don’t You Want Me Baby?” by the Human League?

    The message being "Don't fall for a guy with a ludicrous haircut" ?
This discussion has been closed.