My personal theory is that the left are supporting these anti-liberty measures as revenge against the population for rejecting them in every election since 2005. They think voters are stupid for voting in Conservative or Conservative-led governments since 2010, and also for supporting Brexit in 2016, and so they deserve to have some of their freedoms taken away. They're fond of the experts, on the other hand, because they're more likely to be on their side of the political spectrum.
So, yes, 1m infections by year end is not some wild outlandish forecast.
If it is cumulative then it is obvious. We are already on 50k a day. Doesn't make sense, it's not news
As we've been saying all day, this is to move the media agenda on, there's no reason to have plan b.
It does seem like quite a big song and dance for quite a small change in the restrictions.
This is not a small change. Vaccine passports. Mandatory facemasks. This is back to square 1, fuck you Joe Public you are our bitch now stuff.
Mandatory facemasks, not enforced. Working from home, being requested. NHS Covid pass with either vaccination or a negative test which is free and takes a few mins for big events.
This is all small beer on the civil liberties front.
Far bigger issues around nationality and judicial review going on this week where the executive is really grabbing ongoing and dangerous powers.
Not small beer at all. Nobody has the right to ask for my personal health details. It's pointless anyway - either others present are vaccinated, in which case there's no problem, or they aren't, and it's their problem. I just won't go until this nonsense is over. And if anyone thinks I'm going to sit for 3 hours in a cinema or theatre wearing a mask they can think again.
Sensible and moderate proposals by the PM tonight. Vaccine passports for nightclubs and large venues and facemasks for cinemas and theatres given Omicron but crucially no new lockdown
The statement by Sajid Javid is being panned by his own mps who largely seem to be out of touch with public opinion
On topic, the worst thing from this polling is this.
Three in ten say they are less likely to follow Covid rules as a result (29%).
This rises to a third of Labour voters (33%) and those aged 18-34 (33%) who say the same.
Over half say they are just as likely to follow the rules (54%)
Whatever Boris Johnson announces tonight will be ignored by large parts of the country making us less secure.
He needs to go and be replaced by someone with the credibility and authority to launch you new Covid-19 measures.
Except it wouldn't matter if Jesus were to descend from heaven to promote any new Covid measures. First of all, the country, or a large enough fraction of it at any rate, has had enough of Covid measures and will happily ignore them if they think they can get away with it. And secondly, there's probably nothing short of a full lockdown that will do anything to seriously impede the latest version of this bloody virus, it's questionable as to whether or not even that will work, and neither the economy nor wider society can sustain an annual cycle of hokey cokey house arrest for the next thousand years.
The Government can plausibly get away with yet more masks (useless) and WFH (not useful enough,) and after that it is out of options. Reinstating large scale business support and putting about five or six million people back on furlough until various roadmap steps between April and July, let alone shutting all the schools again for the Winter, is a non-starter. And if declining to go to those lengths means, to put it bluntly, tent hospitals and doctors having to decide which Covid patient gets a ventilator and which one gets a big shot of morphine, then that's what's going to end up happening. After all, selectively abandoning non-Covid patients to perish through lack of care capacity is already a reality in the NHS. Why should selectively abandoning Covid patients to perish as well seem so unimaginable?
Basically, if we are fortunate and this latest wave of the disease is moderate then we can all breathe a sigh of relief, and if we aren't and it's bad then there are no workable strategies left for avoiding a massacre. Draconian restrictions are over. Finished.
I'm not sure it's as "mild" as we all hope
Benedict Barclay @BarclayBenedict · 2m Replying to @BarclayBenedict The total number of people in hospital with Covid is 4,252, which is very sharply up on 2,550 last week.
Gauteng has fallen from 72% of cases to 59%, which shows that cases are now rising faster in other provinces.
The report from a couple of days ago was that 76% of the admissions testing positive with Covid were incidental infections i.e. the patient was not being admitted with Covid.
I believe that turned out to be wishful thinking bolleaux
Really? Source?
I found it last night down some 3am rabbit hole, I fear I can't find it again. Feel free to ignore, or not
Anyway, I just don't believe South African hospitals are taking in loads more people with broken limbs who just "happen" to have Covid as well
From yesterday
"South Africa's Covid Hospital Admissions More Than Double In A Day
"South Africa Covid Cases: According to the National Institute for Communicable Diseases 383 people have been admitted to hospital with the disease in the last 24 hours compared with 175 in the preceding period."
"Worst day yet for hospital admissions in South Africa. #Omicron Cases and Daily Admissions are 3x what we saw with Delta. But the silver lining is that ICU is still 72% below the most applicable Delta comparison period. How many will end up in ICU is the question. #COVID19"
Given the test positivity rate in South Africa is more than 20%, why does it surprise you that people with other ailments (cancer, eye surgery, gunshot wounds, kidney disease, etc.) might have Covid?
Enough people are now going through the whole grisly, inevitable process - infection, admission, then on to ventilation and ICU - for us to know the surge in Gauteng is real and it is Covid
There are also reports of the first deaths circling Twitter, and that statistical leap in excess deaths to consider (which might of course be random, or not, or Delta, who the F knows?)
OK time to watch Boris scratch the blackboard
So: time to nail your colours to the mast: So you think we should be strengthening measures against Covid (moving towards Lockdown), or continuing with current measures?
I said earlier that I think we should stick with what we have, and instead focus on surging the booster drive, and prepping the NHS for a big wave of new cases between now and late Jan
I fear a grim and foolish logic is, however, leading us to Plan B, and then Lockdown
And some on here are still saying Oh that will be fine, you stay home and eat chocolates.
Jesus F Christ. For many many people the last winter lockdown was pretty much unbearable
It will not be fine. But neither is having a very high rate of hospitalisation and deaths.
You fuck people and their businesses over too much, you run out of money, the health service collapses, you get the deaths anyway.
The odd thing is: we have been at war; in many ways a much worse situation, and your scenario did not come to pass.
When the country was at war the Government didn't respond by telling everybody to sit at home all the bloody time.
They did, when it was needed. 'Stay put if the invader comes.' 'Holiday at home' to prevent 'unnecessary travel'. 'Coughs and sneezes spread diseases'. .
I’m old enough to remember having been told to hide under the kitchen table in the event of the four minute warning.
Not before taping brown paper over the windows I hope
Whitewash against the flash, surely. Brown paper was 1930s ARP.
Good point, I'd have been in real difficulties after a nuclear air blast if I had made that elementary mistake
It may be that both were good - whitewash on the outside. I don't remember the details ... I was staying bwteeen two major nuclear weapons bases at the time so ....
Over in the Commons, Tory MPs are shouting "Resign!" at Sajid Javid for announcing Covid restrictions. He's spent months trying to appease them, but in the end, he's been forced to pick a side
Good, he fucking deserves it. Time for the letters to go in and get rid of Boris and put an actual bloody Conservative in charge and tell the science wankers, the NHS wankers to get fucked and deal with it.
Would also need to tell the general public, most of whom support the restrictions, to get fucked and deal with it. I'm not sure that will play out well in the next GE tbh.
But like me the public will do what we are told to, but it doesn’t mean we are not as deflated as possible with all plans in our head for Christmas meet ups.
As it stands I can still travel to Yorkshire. Still go in pubs to meet people there. And take good walks with people too, jumping in puddles like Peppa Pig.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
We were always technically sovereign, we could only exercise that sovereignty by invoking Article 50 so we rightly did when people wanted to exercise that sovereignty.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
So as it stands we are not sovereign because we haven't exercised it. Is that right?
If memory serves, you've been trying variants (so to speak) of this line for a couple of years now, and I'm sorry, but I think it's a stupid argument. If we our sovereignty within the EU is only present because we have the option to leave it, then we clearly aren't sovereign while we're in it, and the fact that we assented (implicitly) to that reality is irrelevant.
He who [has to] break[s] a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.
Apology accepted. Although your point is wrong. We were always sovereign whether we decided to exercise it or not. Of course we made compromises but did so as a sovereign nation.
But that is not the point. If we were not sovereign within the EU because we hadn't "proved" it by leaving, then the NI deal means we are not sovereign because as of this moment we haven't exercised A16. It can't be both.
If you think we weren't sovereign while in the EU and aren't sovereign now because the NI deal means that there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI that is fair enough. But you can't argue for one and not the other.
We were always sovereign for both. The question is if you wanted to exercise your sovereignty or not.
The English and Welsh voted to exercise their sovereignty, hence invoking Article 50. The NI did not, hence the special arrangements.
Now if the NI wish to exercise theirs, then A16 is the right answer for them, just as it was for the UK as a whole. For the same reasons. Using the same logic.
No inconsistencies.
Excellent. So we were sovereign while in the EU: tick. And we are sovereign with this NI deal: tick.
So why all the fuss about leaving the EU to reclaim our sovereignty.
Because we wanted to exercise our sovereignty.
Not just have it in abeyance.
Philip
I remember you telling me that the main benefit of leaving the EU was to get our sovereignty back.
Now you are telling me that we had it all the time!
So why leave?
So we could exercise it.
If you only have sovereignty so long as you can't exercise it, and you want to exercise it but can't, then do you have it.
So we only have something if we use it? Obviously we "could" exercise it, we did. So obviously we had it.
Is this some weird version of "having your cake and eating it?" ....or because we don't use a nuclear weapon we don't have it?
No its the polar opposite.
If you're not bothered about using your sovereignty then its OK to keep it in abeyance in something like the EU or NI Protocol, so long as you have an exit mechanism like A50 or A16.
If you are bothered about using it then you need to invoke the relevant Article first before you can.
Just been to my local petrol station/express convenience store.
“Masks are mandatory” signs up
1/2 staff masked
2/7 customers masked
People ain’t complying.
Flowery pillowcases or blue paper do nothing useful to stop Covid, and everyone knows it.
Pointless something-must-be-done-ism.
"Everyone knows it."
Well, I disagree., That means either you are mistaken, or you are, as I do not 'know' it.
Anti-maskers are only one step down from anti-vaxxers.
Get fucked Josias. Seriously, you're a fucking fool.
Perhaps Max, just perhaps, you are wrong on this.
COVID is endemic, you pro-masking wankers have got no end date. You're walking the nation into a new forever end-state. This is where we're at with COVID, it isn't going to change. Get that into your idiotic head.
Instead of foul-mouthed swearing at people on here maybe go and make yourself a cup of tea, go for a walk, do something pleasant. Rather than simply spreading unpleasantness on here.
You can get fucked as well tbh, you pro masking, pro lockdown fools are leading us all into a new end-state. There's no coming back from this because COVID is already endemic in the UK and across the world. Any measures now will have to be permanent.
I thought it was telling he said these measures signed off by the cabinet.....I think he wanted to go a lot further.
He knows the pressure the NHS is under right now with an Omicron wave is on its way. We are in for a tremendously difficult winter
And we have allowed massive pressure and a massive backlog to build in the NHS by month after month after month of 40k+ new cases per day. The laughably dubbed "exit wave".
In a way, I wish Tony Blair was still prime minister today, after 24 years, because I'm sure he would have had a much more optimistic approach to the pandemic and the best way to deal with it.
One or two getting a bit over-excited on here this evening. Tonight's measures are a very long way away from this time last year - the Working from Home guidelines will have little or no impact and the mask wearing - if you want to attend an outdoor event without having to worry about crowds, I'd recommend a Lingfield all-weather meeting during the week.
I'm struck by the fact it was barely two years ago, Johnson was swept back into power on a tide of popular acclaim and 44% of the vote. It's a salient lesson of how the fortunes of politics change - oddly enough, I wonder whether, having coveted the job for so long, Johnson believes if it was all worth the effort. The virus could have happened on someone else's watch and he might have been the political beneficiary but it happened on his watch and he's the one copping the flak.
"Be careful what you wish for", as the saying goes.
I thought it was telling he said these measures signed off by the cabinet.....I think he wanted to go a lot further.
They've completely bottled it on vaccine passports. Just get a lateral flow test in the very rare event that you will need one, and you can still continue to do anything. Absolutely nothing there to make life substantially difficult for those who fuel the spread of Covid and the clogging up of the NHS by refusing to get vaccinated and refusing to let their children get vaccinated. No-one who has so far refused to get vaccinated is going to bat an eyelid, and rates of vaccination are going to stay far too low as a consequence. Pandering to the anti-vaxxers.
Then Vallance said "I do understand people might be a bit deflated by all this"
Which made me laugh, darkly
Honestly, someone needs to punch Boris in the face really, really hard, repeatedly.
It was Vallance and Whitty which took Rigby's question. And neither was really able to say No, this is not Forever, tho they strived to be mildly optimistic in the long run
Boris is actually handling the presser OK, it is not the shitshow I expected. It is nonetheless horribly depressing
Another Christmas, another winter, another year, another variant, another decade....
In a way, I wish Tony Blair was still prime minister today, after 24 years, because I'm sure he would have had a much more optimistic approach to the pandemic and the best way to deal with it.
Cameron or Blair would have both been on the ball with this.
The biggest issue with the Xmas Party stuff is not the hypocrisy, although that matters, but that if people do not trust the government then they will not follow the rules that are needed to help get us through this pandemic with minimal loss of life. I don't know anyone who wants these restrictions - we just want to live in a society where the virus is taken seriously and we aren't leaving those who are already the most at risk to die. People generally support restrictions not out of spite to those who voted for Brexit, not because they are antifreedom, not because they are killjoys - but because they have been shown to reduce deaths and people don't want their loved ones to die.
Laura K is spectacularly good for a change. She sounds angry. It's the Scottish Presbyterian coming out. The inter cuts between Laura and Allegra is worthy of a Bafta editing award
In a way, I wish Tony Blair was still prime minister today, after 24 years, because I'm sure he would have had a much more optimistic approach to the pandemic and the best way to deal with it.
He was eager for ID Cards, Detention without Trial and much more even without a pandemic (!)
On topic, the worst thing from this polling is this.
Three in ten say they are less likely to follow Covid rules as a result (29%).
This rises to a third of Labour voters (33%) and those aged 18-34 (33%) who say the same.
Over half say they are just as likely to follow the rules (54%)
Whatever Boris Johnson announces tonight will be ignored by large parts of the country making us less secure.
He needs to go and be replaced by someone with the credibility and authority to launch you new Covid-19 measures.
Except it wouldn't matter if Jesus were to descend from heaven to promote any new Covid measures. First of all, the country, or a large enough fraction of it at any rate, has had enough of Covid measures and will happily ignore them if they think they can get away with it. And secondly, there's probably nothing short of a full lockdown that will do anything to seriously impede the latest version of this bloody virus, it's questionable as to whether or not even that will work, and neither the economy nor wider society can sustain an annual cycle of hokey cokey house arrest for the next thousand years.
The Government can plausibly get away with yet more masks (useless) and WFH (not useful enough,) and after that it is out of options. Reinstating large scale business support and putting about five or six million people back on furlough until various roadmap steps between April and July, let alone shutting all the schools again for the Winter, is a non-starter. And if declining to go to those lengths means, to put it bluntly, tent hospitals and doctors having to decide which Covid patient gets a ventilator and which one gets a big shot of morphine, then that's what's going to end up happening. After all, selectively abandoning non-Covid patients to perish through lack of care capacity is already a reality in the NHS. Why should selectively abandoning Covid patients to perish as well seem so unimaginable?
Basically, if we are fortunate and this latest wave of the disease is moderate then we can all breathe a sigh of relief, and if we aren't and it's bad then there are no workable strategies left for avoiding a massacre. Draconian restrictions are over. Finished.
I'm not sure it's as "mild" as we all hope
Benedict Barclay @BarclayBenedict · 2m Replying to @BarclayBenedict The total number of people in hospital with Covid is 4,252, which is very sharply up on 2,550 last week.
Gauteng has fallen from 72% of cases to 59%, which shows that cases are now rising faster in other provinces.
The report from a couple of days ago was that 76% of the admissions testing positive with Covid were incidental infections i.e. the patient was not being admitted with Covid.
I believe that turned out to be wishful thinking bolleaux
Really? Source?
I found it last night down some 3am rabbit hole, I fear I can't find it again. Feel free to ignore, or not
Anyway, I just don't believe South African hospitals are taking in loads more people with broken limbs who just "happen" to have Covid as well
From yesterday
"South Africa's Covid Hospital Admissions More Than Double In A Day
"South Africa Covid Cases: According to the National Institute for Communicable Diseases 383 people have been admitted to hospital with the disease in the last 24 hours compared with 175 in the preceding period."
"Worst day yet for hospital admissions in South Africa. #Omicron Cases and Daily Admissions are 3x what we saw with Delta. But the silver lining is that ICU is still 72% below the most applicable Delta comparison period. How many will end up in ICU is the question. #COVID19"
Given the test positivity rate in South Africa is more than 20%, why does it surprise you that people with other ailments (cancer, eye surgery, gunshot wounds, kidney disease, etc.) might have Covid?
Enough people are now going through the whole grisly, inevitable process - infection, admission, then on to ventilation and ICU - for us to know the surge in Gauteng is real and it is Covid
There are also reports of the first deaths circling Twitter, and that statistical leap in excess deaths to consider (which might of course be random, or not, or Delta, who the F knows?)
OK time to watch Boris scratch the blackboard
So: time to nail your colours to the mast: So you think we should be strengthening measures against Covid (moving towards Lockdown), or continuing with current measures?
I said earlier that I think we should stick with what we have, and instead focus on surging the booster drive, and prepping the NHS for a big wave of new cases between now and late Jan
I fear a grim and foolish logic is, however, leading us to Plan B, and then Lockdown
And some on here are still saying Oh that will be fine, you stay home and eat chocolates.
Jesus F Christ. For many many people the last winter lockdown was pretty much unbearable
It will not be fine. But neither is having a very high rate of hospitalisation and deaths.
You fuck people and their businesses over too much, you run out of money, the health service collapses, you get the deaths anyway.
The odd thing is: we have been at war; in many ways a much worse situation, and your scenario did not come to pass.
When the country was at war the Government didn't respond by telling everybody to sit at home all the bloody time.
They did, when it was needed. 'Stay put if the invader comes.' 'Holiday at home' to prevent 'unnecessary travel'. 'Coughs and sneezes spread diseases'. .
I’m old enough to remember having been told to hide under the kitchen table in the event of the four minute warning.
Whatever happened to kitchen tables?
I'm typing this drivel on my family's old kitchen table, formica top, metal legs, which I use as my desk.
Sensible and moderate proposals by the PM tonight. Vaccine passports for nightclubs and large venues and facemasks for cinemas and theatres given Omicron but crucially no new lockdown
These measures are pretty much what we have in Scotland already. HYUFD in "SNP are sensible and moderate" shocker.
Lobby making little or no attempt to question the assumptions behind the projections of hospital cases, deaths. But let them loose on a party 48 weeks ago, and look at them salivate.
Sensible and moderate proposals by the PM tonight. Vaccine passports for nightclubs and large venues and facemasks for cinemas and theatres given Omicron but crucially no new lockdown
These measures are pretty much what we have in Scotland already. HYUFD in "SNP are sensible and moderate" shocker.
Lobby making little or no attempt to question the assumptions behind the projections of hospital cases, deaths. But let them loose on a party 48 weeks ago, and look at them salivate.
The lobby love and are good at scandal...science and maths...toooo confusing.
In all honesty if O-Mike-Ron is that transmissible, vax passports aren't going to do diddly squat.
If I were to guess, I think it's being done just to increase vaccine takeup.
That was always the only reason to do it, but it should have been done three months ago
But it doesn't work, countries that have used them don't have necessarily higher vaccination levels than the UK which hasn't used them. We're all hovering in or around 70% full vaccination and 73% partial vaccination. Only Portugal has really gone beyond that and they did that with a really good public education and awareness programme early on. Vaccine passports also reduce transmission of the virus among vaccine refusers which leads to all of them getting it all at once in the winter as we can see in Europe. Germany currently has double the UK death rate yet they've got more of their population fully vaccinated than us, they don't have the same level of natural immunity which is the only way out of this in the end. We all get some level of natural immunity, either the easy way after the vaccine or the hard way by not taking it.
But that’s only a 4% lead for Labour, not 10%, so nothing to worry about.
(Tee hee)
The momentum is looking terrifying for the Tories. This is Black Wednesday on steroids.
When even Ant and Dec are desttoying BoJo with open contempt then you know that this has really cut through.
What do you mean even? They are mass market light entertainment gods who are watched by millions of people who don't do politics but probably had happy thoughts about Boris.
Which is why the building takedowns by Ant or Dec have been so brutal. As you say, destroying him by open contempt.
My personal theory is that the left are supporting these anti-liberty measures as revenge against the population for rejecting them in every election since 2005. They think voters are stupid for voting in Conservative or Conservative-led governments since 2010, and also for supporting Brexit in 2016, and so they deserve to have some of their freedoms taken away. They're fond of the experts, on the other hand, because they're more likely to be on their side of the political spectrum.
There are plenty of older Conservative voters who support restrictions and plenty of left-leaning younger people who strongly oppose them.
I don't know why you want to have a whine at the "left" all the time these days.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
We were always technically sovereign, we could only exercise that sovereignty by invoking Article 50 so we rightly did when people wanted to exercise that sovereignty.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
So as it stands we are not sovereign because we haven't exercised it. Is that right?
If memory serves, you've been trying variants (so to speak) of this line for a couple of years now, and I'm sorry, but I think it's a stupid argument. If we our sovereignty within the EU is only present because we have the option to leave it, then we clearly aren't sovereign while we're in it, and the fact that we assented (implicitly) to that reality is irrelevant.
He who [has to] break[s] a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.
Apology accepted. Although your point is wrong. We were always sovereign whether we decided to exercise it or not. Of course we made compromises but did so as a sovereign nation.
But that is not the point. If we were not sovereign within the EU because we hadn't "proved" it by leaving, then the NI deal means we are not sovereign because as of this moment we haven't exercised A16. It can't be both.
If you think we weren't sovereign while in the EU and aren't sovereign now because the NI deal means that there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI that is fair enough. But you can't argue for one and not the other.
We were always sovereign for both. The question is if you wanted to exercise your sovereignty or not.
The English and Welsh voted to exercise their sovereignty, hence invoking Article 50. The NI did not, hence the special arrangements.
Now if the NI wish to exercise theirs, then A16 is the right answer for them, just as it was for the UK as a whole. For the same reasons. Using the same logic.
No inconsistencies.
Excellent. So we were sovereign while in the EU: tick. And we are sovereign with this NI deal: tick.
So why all the fuss about leaving the EU to reclaim our sovereignty.
Because we wanted to exercise our sovereignty.
Not just have it in abeyance.
Philip
I remember you telling me that the main benefit of leaving the EU was to get our sovereignty back.
Now you are telling me that we had it all the time!
So why leave?
So we could exercise it.
If you only have sovereignty so long as you can't exercise it, and you want to exercise it but can't, then do you have it.
So we only have something if we use it? Obviously we "could" exercise it, we did. So obviously we had it.
Is this some weird version of "having your cake and eating it?" ....or because we don't use a nuclear weapon we don't have it?
No its the polar opposite.
If you're not bothered about using your sovereignty then its OK to keep it in abeyance in something like the EU or NI Protocol, so long as you have an exit mechanism like A50 or A16.
If you are bothered about using it then you need to invoke the relevant Article first before you can.
How is that not clear?
But I am not bothered about using it. There are more important things to worry about, like Covid, the NHS, paying back borrowed monies, trying to keep our trade figures up to where they were, you know, and of course not dying (even though I am old and I will die sooner or later...)
Just been boostered with Moderna, nearly five months after my second AZ dose.
Why are we messing around with distractions (such as what circle of hell requires a vaxport, and which only a facemask) when the message should be very clearly to vaccinate early and often?
The vaccine strategy is being completely undermined by the government's own actions and messages.
Lobby making little or no attempt to question the assumptions behind the projections of hospital cases, deaths. But let them loose on a party 48 weeks ago, and look at them salivate.
What is the problem with a precautionary principle approach? If they are wrong - people work from home for a few weeks and we're wrong about hospitalisations. If they are right - people work from home and we save lives. The opposite situation is, if they didn't do this and the virus does increase hospitalisations and deaths - we see thousands of unnecessary dead - not just of covid but of those who may not get other treatment due to NHS overstretch.
Going to a football match means either proving you are vaccinated or taking a LFT prior to entry - is that right? How practical is that at the turnstiles?
Sensible and moderate proposals by the PM tonight. Vaccine passports for nightclubs and large venues and facemasks for cinemas and theatres given Omicron but crucially no new lockdown
You're early love, this evening's cabaret turn starts at half 7.
On topic, the worst thing from this polling is this.
Three in ten say they are less likely to follow Covid rules as a result (29%).
This rises to a third of Labour voters (33%) and those aged 18-34 (33%) who say the same.
Over half say they are just as likely to follow the rules (54%)
Whatever Boris Johnson announces tonight will be ignored by large parts of the country making us less secure.
He needs to go and be replaced by someone with the credibility and authority to launch you new Covid-19 measures.
Except it wouldn't matter if Jesus were to descend from heaven to promote any new Covid measures. First of all, the country, or a large enough fraction of it at any rate, has had enough of Covid measures and will happily ignore them if they think they can get away with it. And secondly, there's probably nothing short of a full lockdown that will do anything to seriously impede the latest version of this bloody virus, it's questionable as to whether or not even that will work, and neither the economy nor wider society can sustain an annual cycle of hokey cokey house arrest for the next thousand years.
The Government can plausibly get away with yet more masks (useless) and WFH (not useful enough,) and after that it is out of options. Reinstating large scale business support and putting about five or six million people back on furlough until various roadmap steps between April and July, let alone shutting all the schools again for the Winter, is a non-starter. And if declining to go to those lengths means, to put it bluntly, tent hospitals and doctors having to decide which Covid patient gets a ventilator and which one gets a big shot of morphine, then that's what's going to end up happening. After all, selectively abandoning non-Covid patients to perish through lack of care capacity is already a reality in the NHS. Why should selectively abandoning Covid patients to perish as well seem so unimaginable?
Basically, if we are fortunate and this latest wave of the disease is moderate then we can all breathe a sigh of relief, and if we aren't and it's bad then there are no workable strategies left for avoiding a massacre. Draconian restrictions are over. Finished.
I'm not sure it's as "mild" as we all hope
Benedict Barclay @BarclayBenedict · 2m Replying to @BarclayBenedict The total number of people in hospital with Covid is 4,252, which is very sharply up on 2,550 last week.
Gauteng has fallen from 72% of cases to 59%, which shows that cases are now rising faster in other provinces.
The report from a couple of days ago was that 76% of the admissions testing positive with Covid were incidental infections i.e. the patient was not being admitted with Covid.
I believe that turned out to be wishful thinking bolleaux
Really? Source?
I found it last night down some 3am rabbit hole, I fear I can't find it again. Feel free to ignore, or not
Anyway, I just don't believe South African hospitals are taking in loads more people with broken limbs who just "happen" to have Covid as well
From yesterday
"South Africa's Covid Hospital Admissions More Than Double In A Day
"South Africa Covid Cases: According to the National Institute for Communicable Diseases 383 people have been admitted to hospital with the disease in the last 24 hours compared with 175 in the preceding period."
"Worst day yet for hospital admissions in South Africa. #Omicron Cases and Daily Admissions are 3x what we saw with Delta. But the silver lining is that ICU is still 72% below the most applicable Delta comparison period. How many will end up in ICU is the question. #COVID19"
Given the test positivity rate in South Africa is more than 20%, why does it surprise you that people with other ailments (cancer, eye surgery, gunshot wounds, kidney disease, etc.) might have Covid?
Enough people are now going through the whole grisly, inevitable process - infection, admission, then on to ventilation and ICU - for us to know the surge in Gauteng is real and it is Covid
There are also reports of the first deaths circling Twitter, and that statistical leap in excess deaths to consider (which might of course be random, or not, or Delta, who the F knows?)
OK time to watch Boris scratch the blackboard
So: time to nail your colours to the mast: So you think we should be strengthening measures against Covid (moving towards Lockdown), or continuing with current measures?
I said earlier that I think we should stick with what we have, and instead focus on surging the booster drive, and prepping the NHS for a big wave of new cases between now and late Jan
I fear a grim and foolish logic is, however, leading us to Plan B, and then Lockdown
And some on here are still saying Oh that will be fine, you stay home and eat chocolates.
Jesus F Christ. For many many people the last winter lockdown was pretty much unbearable
It will not be fine. But neither is having a very high rate of hospitalisation and deaths.
You fuck people and their businesses over too much, you run out of money, the health service collapses, you get the deaths anyway.
The odd thing is: we have been at war; in many ways a much worse situation, and your scenario did not come to pass.
When the country was at war the Government didn't respond by telling everybody to sit at home all the bloody time.
They did, when it was needed. 'Stay put if the invader comes.' 'Holiday at home' to prevent 'unnecessary travel'. 'Coughs and sneezes spread diseases'. .
I’m old enough to remember having been told to hide under the kitchen table in the event of the four minute warning.
Whatever happened to kitchen tables?
I'm typing this drivel on my family's old kitchen table, formica top, metal legs, which I use as my desk.
Don't know what your lot did with yours'.
I do recall a kitchen table when I was young. It had fold out flaps and the steel mechanisms that sprung them into place were like Normandy beach defenses.
In all honesty if O-Mike-Ron is that transmissible, vax passports aren't going to do diddly squat.
If I were to guess, I think it's being done just to increase vaccine takeup.
That was always the only reason to do it, but it should have been done three months ago
But it doesn't work, countries that have used them don't have necessarily higher vaccination levels than the UK which hasn't used them. We're all hovering in or around 70% full vaccination and 73% partial vaccination. Only Portugal has really gone beyond that and they did that with a really good public education and awareness programme early on. Vaccine passports also reduce transmission of the virus among vaccine refusers which leads to all of them getting it all at once in the winter as we can see in Europe. Germany currently has double the UK death rate yet they've got more of their population fully vaccinated than us, they don't have the same level of natural immunity which is the only way out of this in the end. We all get some level of natural immunity, either the easy way after the vaccine or the hard way by not taking it.
His TV performance is absolutely sick making; It could hardly be worse. He's crucifying himself with his arrogance. Think Ceausescu on the balcony on his final day on earth
You sound impressed!
I stumbled on something earlier that I though might interest you. I was looking at the etymology for 'rogue'; it's uncertain, but there's a theory that it's a shortened form of roger (with a long o and hard g like rogue - not like Roger. but still!) which, according to lots of places on the internet but I can't find an original source for the claim, meant:
"thieves' slang for a begging vagabond who pretends to be a poor scholar from Oxford or Cambridge"
Boris now looking like he doesn’t want to be there.
Saying we have less restrictions than some places sound lot like in Mars Attacks - they’ve blown up congress, but you still have half your government working for you.
One thing I'm slightly peeved about: Mrs J and I booked our booster doses when we first became eligible, 18 days ago. The date we got was for the 16th, in 8 days time. In the meantime, the media is full of people younger than use getting dates for tomorrow, or in a few days. When I go to the booster pages, there is no availability in my area (Cambridge) until well after the 18th.
So, is Cambridge poorly provided for with boosters? Or am I being penalised for booking early?
I thought it was telling he said these measures signed off by the cabinet.....I think he wanted to go a lot further.
He knows the pressure the NHS is under right now with an Omicron wave is on its way. We are in for a tremendously difficult winter
And we have allowed massive pressure and a massive backlog to build in the NHS by month after month after month of 40k+ new cases per day. The laughably dubbed "exit wave".
France, with their vaccine passports and permanent plan b measures have got 12k in hospital with COVID right now, today. The UK has got 7k in hospital with COVID. The Netherland, another one who dodge the exit wave, have got more people in hospital with COVID than they did in their first wave. Germany, another one to dodge the exit wave, have got more people in the ICU than in either of the previous waves. Switzerland (my soon to be home), dodged the exit wave, have got more people in the ICU than ever before.
One thing I'm slightly peeved about: Mrs J and I booked our booster doses when we first became eligible, 18 days ago. The date we got was for the 16th, in 8 days time. In the meantime, the media is full of people younger than use getting dates for tomorrow, or in a few days. When I go to the booster pages, there is no availability in my area (Cambridge) until well after the 18th.
So, is Cambridge poorly provided for with boosters? Or am I being penalised for booking early?
Possibly simply a more efficient notification and booking system in Fenland than other areas. And/or fewer nutters. Edit: which means fewer blanks.
Going to a football match means either proving you are vaccinated or taking a LFT prior to entry - is that right? How practical is that at the turnstiles?
Someone with a scanner checking if your phone QR code is valid takes about 3-5 seconds in most cases. Then you get people who can't use their phone efficiently or are not prepared in the queue slowing everything down, especially if it is new to them.
I'd imagine by the third time people are going to a venue and both staff and customers are familiar with the process it is quick but requires extra staffing on the turnstiles.
Do the mirror feel they have a lockdown Party boris attended? Or is it lefty BS?
Felt like they have a story brewing.
Any half-competent journalist would want to get the culprit on the record denying things before presenting the proof, and Boris is certainly dopey enough to walk straight into the trap.
Hopefully voters in North Shropshire will bring Johnson's premiership to a deserved end in 8 days' time.
Third place would be the ultimate hilarious outcome. Only actually possible if tactical voting breaks down. I still think the Tories winning the seat is a distinct possibility though, for the same reason.
Why are we messing around with distractions (such as what circle of hell requires a vaxport, and which only a facemask) when the message should be very clearly to vaccinate early and often?
The vaccine strategy is being completely undermined by the government's own actions and messages.
It's reached the stage where it needs more than a message. In requires the Government to make life really difficult for the minority who refuse to do the right thing, so that they finally do get vaccinated.
Depressing news on plan B. I will make the most of my last two days in the office.
Given this, why the hell aren't we jabbing over 500k per day yet? I had a walk-in jab on Sunday so there was clearly some capacity ahead of the system being updated.
Vaccines are the answer, not further restrictions. At least not until we know if the threat on track to overwhelm the NHS, which we don't yet.
Why are we messing around with distractions (such as what circle of hell requires a vaxport, and which only a facemask) when the message should be very clearly to vaccinate early and often?
The vaccine strategy is being completely undermined by the government's own actions and messages.
It's reached the stage where it needs more than a message. In requires the Government to make life really difficult for the minority who refuse to do the right thing, so that they finally do get vaccinated.
As I said earlier, increase personal tax rates for people who are unvaxxed. For a while, whilst they are unvaxxed. After a period, increase them for life.
I am having such a massive deja vu. It's just like last year.
That's another thing that really winds me up, nobody ever seems to learn anything. 20 months or more now of making the same mistakes, and having the same stupid assumptions again and again.
In all honesty if O-Mike-Ron is that transmissible, vax passports aren't going to do diddly squat.
If I were to guess, I think it's being done just to increase vaccine takeup.
That was always the only reason to do it, but it should have been done three months ago
But it doesn't work, countries that have used them don't have necessarily higher vaccination levels than the UK which hasn't used them. We're all hovering in or around 70% full vaccination and 73% partial vaccination. Only Portugal has really gone beyond that and they did that with a really good public education and awareness programme early on. Vaccine passports also reduce transmission of the virus among vaccine refusers which leads to all of them getting it all at once in the winter as we can see in Europe. Germany currently has double the UK death rate yet they've got more of their population fully vaccinated than us, they don't have the same level of natural immunity which is the only way out of this in the end. We all get some level of natural immunity, either the easy way after the vaccine or the hard way by not taking it.
Yes, maybe
Certainly vaxports seem irrelevant now
This is a bleak bleak moment
The worst part is that Beth Rigby, for once, was entirely correct. They can't answer her question because the fuckers know the answer is yes. It will take the Tory party getting rid of Boris and an actual leader to win and tell the scientists to get fucked to be rid of this new half-life. These people want everyone to live in isolated lives so they can eliminate death. We know that isn't going to happen but here we are.
Do the mirror feel they have a lockdown Party boris attended? Or is it lefty BS?
Felt like they have a story brewing.
Any half-competent journalist would want to get the culprit on the record denying things before presenting the proof, and Boris is certainly dopey enough to walk straight into the trap.
Mirror do seem to be the favourite gutter the Scarlett pimpenknell chooses to piss this story into 🤷♀️
Hopefully voters in North Shropshire will bring Johnson's premiership to a deserved end in 8 days' time.
We can only hope that the voters in that most respectable of constituencies realise the power they have in their hands to rid our country of this endless embarrassment.
Hopefully voters in North Shropshire will bring Johnson's premiership to a deserved end in 8 days' time.
They won't even on Redfield poll tonight Labour would still be short of a majority and LDs frequently win by elections the Tories regain at the general
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
We were always technically sovereign, we could only exercise that sovereignty by invoking Article 50 so we rightly did when people wanted to exercise that sovereignty.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
So as it stands we are not sovereign because we haven't exercised it. Is that right?
If memory serves, you've been trying variants (so to speak) of this line for a couple of years now, and I'm sorry, but I think it's a stupid argument. If we our sovereignty within the EU is only present because we have the option to leave it, then we clearly aren't sovereign while we're in it, and the fact that we assented (implicitly) to that reality is irrelevant.
He who [has to] break[s] a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.
Apology accepted. Although your point is wrong. We were always sovereign whether we decided to exercise it or not. Of course we made compromises but did so as a sovereign nation.
But that is not the point. If we were not sovereign within the EU because we hadn't "proved" it by leaving, then the NI deal means we are not sovereign because as of this moment we haven't exercised A16. It can't be both.
If you think we weren't sovereign while in the EU and aren't sovereign now because the NI deal means that there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI that is fair enough. But you can't argue for one and not the other.
We were always sovereign for both. The question is if you wanted to exercise your sovereignty or not.
The English and Welsh voted to exercise their sovereignty, hence invoking Article 50. The NI did not, hence the special arrangements.
Now if the NI wish to exercise theirs, then A16 is the right answer for them, just as it was for the UK as a whole. For the same reasons. Using the same logic.
No inconsistencies.
Excellent. So we were sovereign while in the EU: tick. And we are sovereign with this NI deal: tick.
So why all the fuss about leaving the EU to reclaim our sovereignty.
Because we wanted to exercise our sovereignty.
Not just have it in abeyance.
Philip
I remember you telling me that the main benefit of leaving the EU was to get our sovereignty back.
Now you are telling me that we had it all the time!
So why leave?
So we could exercise it.
If you only have sovereignty so long as you can't exercise it, and you want to exercise it but can't, then do you have it.
So we only have something if we use it? Obviously we "could" exercise it, we did. So obviously we had it.
Is this some weird version of "having your cake and eating it?" ....or because we don't use a nuclear weapon we don't have it?
No its the polar opposite.
If you're not bothered about using your sovereignty then its OK to keep it in abeyance in something like the EU or NI Protocol, so long as you have an exit mechanism like A50 or A16.
If you are bothered about using it then you need to invoke the relevant Article first before you can.
How is that not clear?
But I am not bothered about using it. There are more important things to worry about, like Covid, the NHS, paying back borrowed monies, trying to keep our trade figures up to where they were, you know, and of course not dying (even though I am old and I will die sooner or later...)
That's fine, you're not bothered. So vote Remain then. That's entirely valid. I had no philosophical objection to Remain.
But that wasn't the nations choice. You were a minority and lost the vote. A majority were bothered so that's the decision made.
To say masks do nothing is obviously completely wrong and verging on anti-vax-like conspiracy theories.
A full and correct deployment of the Horse Battery
Hope you are well.
Ah, you know, ups, downs, sideways bits. I'm having a new bathtub installed - in my small world this is excitement of a sort
I don't think I ever did get to the bottom of the CHB moniker. It's a quiet eveing, no PMs in trouble, no end to the world! Surely a (do dramatise) story of a famous PB moniker will draw an audience of ... er lots!
To say masks do nothing is obviously completely wrong and verging on anti-vax-like conspiracy theories.
A full and correct deployment of the Horse Battery
Hope you are well.
Ah, you know, ups, downs, sideways bits. I'm having a new bathtub installed - in my small world this is excitement of a sort
I don't think I ever did get to the bottom of the CHB moniker. It's a quiet eveing, no PMs in trouble, no end to the world! Surely a (do dramatise) story of a famous PB moniker will draw an audience of ... er lots!
Sensible and moderate proposals by the PM tonight. Vaccine passports for nightclubs and large venues and facemasks for cinemas and theatres given Omicron but crucially no new lockdown
These measures are pretty much what we have in Scotland already. HYUFD in "SNP are sensible and moderate" shocker.
And which appear have had zero effect on either the case or vaccination rate in Scotland. The reality is this won't make any difference to the outcomes, it just means more miserable people, ruined business, and a "papers please" society.
Restrictions have always been the wrong answer to this pandemic, but at least last time round there was a point "we're waiting for the vaccines" / "we're rolling out the vaccines". There is no point now - we have vaccines, we've double jabbed almost everyone at any real risk, and triple jabbed the most vulnerable.
Polling on this is massively skewed because - most people want to WFH for reasons unrelated to the pandemic, and those least in favour of restrictions are least likely to be polled because they will be out living their lives rather than cowering at home being rung by opinion pollsters.
On topic, the worst thing from this polling is this.
Three in ten say they are less likely to follow Covid rules as a result (29%).
This rises to a third of Labour voters (33%) and those aged 18-34 (33%) who say the same.
Over half say they are just as likely to follow the rules (54%)
Whatever Boris Johnson announces tonight will be ignored by large parts of the country making us less secure.
He needs to go and be replaced by someone with the credibility and authority to launch you new Covid-19 measures.
Except it wouldn't matter if Jesus were to descend from heaven to promote any new Covid measures. First of all, the country, or a large enough fraction of it at any rate, has had enough of Covid measures and will happily ignore them if they think they can get away with it. And secondly, there's probably nothing short of a full lockdown that will do anything to seriously impede the latest version of this bloody virus, it's questionable as to whether or not even that will work, and neither the economy nor wider society can sustain an annual cycle of hokey cokey house arrest for the next thousand years.
The Government can plausibly get away with yet more masks (useless) and WFH (not useful enough,) and after that it is out of options. Reinstating large scale business support and putting about five or six million people back on furlough until various roadmap steps between April and July, let alone shutting all the schools again for the Winter, is a non-starter. And if declining to go to those lengths means, to put it bluntly, tent hospitals and doctors having to decide which Covid patient gets a ventilator and which one gets a big shot of morphine, then that's what's going to end up happening. After all, selectively abandoning non-Covid patients to perish through lack of care capacity is already a reality in the NHS. Why should selectively abandoning Covid patients to perish as well seem so unimaginable?
Basically, if we are fortunate and this latest wave of the disease is moderate then we can all breathe a sigh of relief, and if we aren't and it's bad then there are no workable strategies left for avoiding a massacre. Draconian restrictions are over. Finished.
I'm not sure it's as "mild" as we all hope
Benedict Barclay @BarclayBenedict · 2m Replying to @BarclayBenedict The total number of people in hospital with Covid is 4,252, which is very sharply up on 2,550 last week.
Gauteng has fallen from 72% of cases to 59%, which shows that cases are now rising faster in other provinces.
The report from a couple of days ago was that 76% of the admissions testing positive with Covid were incidental infections i.e. the patient was not being admitted with Covid.
I believe that turned out to be wishful thinking bolleaux
Really? Source?
I found it last night down some 3am rabbit hole, I fear I can't find it again. Feel free to ignore, or not
Anyway, I just don't believe South African hospitals are taking in loads more people with broken limbs who just "happen" to have Covid as well
From yesterday
"South Africa's Covid Hospital Admissions More Than Double In A Day
"South Africa Covid Cases: According to the National Institute for Communicable Diseases 383 people have been admitted to hospital with the disease in the last 24 hours compared with 175 in the preceding period."
"Worst day yet for hospital admissions in South Africa. #Omicron Cases and Daily Admissions are 3x what we saw with Delta. But the silver lining is that ICU is still 72% below the most applicable Delta comparison period. How many will end up in ICU is the question. #COVID19"
Given the test positivity rate in South Africa is more than 20%, why does it surprise you that people with other ailments (cancer, eye surgery, gunshot wounds, kidney disease, etc.) might have Covid?
Enough people are now going through the whole grisly, inevitable process - infection, admission, then on to ventilation and ICU - for us to know the surge in Gauteng is real and it is Covid
There are also reports of the first deaths circling Twitter, and that statistical leap in excess deaths to consider (which might of course be random, or not, or Delta, who the F knows?)
OK time to watch Boris scratch the blackboard
So: time to nail your colours to the mast: So you think we should be strengthening measures against Covid (moving towards Lockdown), or continuing with current measures?
I said earlier that I think we should stick with what we have, and instead focus on surging the booster drive, and prepping the NHS for a big wave of new cases between now and late Jan
I fear a grim and foolish logic is, however, leading us to Plan B, and then Lockdown
And some on here are still saying Oh that will be fine, you stay home and eat chocolates.
Jesus F Christ. For many many people the last winter lockdown was pretty much unbearable
It will not be fine. But neither is having a very high rate of hospitalisation and deaths.
You fuck people and their businesses over too much, you run out of money, the health service collapses, you get the deaths anyway.
The odd thing is: we have been at war; in many ways a much worse situation, and your scenario did not come to pass.
When the country was at war the Government didn't respond by telling everybody to sit at home all the bloody time.
They did, when it was needed. 'Stay put if the invader comes.' 'Holiday at home' to prevent 'unnecessary travel'. 'Coughs and sneezes spread diseases'. .
I’m old enough to remember having been told to hide under the kitchen table in the event of the four minute warning.
Whatever happened to kitchen tables?
I'm typing this drivel on my family's old kitchen table, formica top, metal legs, which I use as my desk.
Don't know what your lot did with yours'.
I do recall a kitchen table when I was young. It had fold out flaps and the steel mechanisms that sprung them into place were like Normandy beach defenses.
We had pews as seat for out kitchen table. Dad demolished an old chapel in the 60's, and rescued some of the old pews. My brother still uses one as seats for side of his table, and my sister has the other somewhere.
I miss them; many of my childhood memories revolve around mealtimes and those pews. But I've got the clock that hung above the table.
What's also really odd is that this is being justified by "1m infections between now and the end of December" which is basically our current run rate, so the scientists don't expect a major explosion in the virus, Delta or Omicron. The modelling wouldn't support it either because there's such high levels of population immunity and Delta or Omicron will run into sub-standard hosts far too often to really break out.
All of this is being done to cover up Boris and his dodgy parties.
To say masks do nothing is obviously completely wrong and verging on anti-vax-like conspiracy theories.
A full and correct deployment of the Horse Battery
Hope you are well.
Ah, you know, ups, downs, sideways bits. I'm having a new bathtub installed - in my small world this is excitement of a sort
I don't think I ever did get to the bottom of the CHB moniker. It's a quiet eveing, no PMs in trouble, no end to the world! Surely a (do dramatise) story of a famous PB moniker will draw an audience of ... er lots!
Comments
But agree about the last comment.
I bet he is!
Support for Covid restrictions is almost identical across supporters of all parties.
The public do not see it as a political issue.
Just as they don't see murder or road safety or being polite as political issues.
Strengthening or reducing Covid restrictions will not affect voting at a GE.
Which makes the timing more suspicious tbh
As it stands I can still travel to Yorkshire. Still go in pubs to meet people there. And take good walks with people too, jumping in puddles like Peppa Pig.
I’m trying to think positively 😞
If you're not bothered about using your sovereignty then its OK to keep it in abeyance in something like the EU or NI Protocol, so long as you have an exit mechanism like A50 or A16.
If you are bothered about using it then you need to invoke the relevant Article first before you can.
How is that not clear?
With a stiletto at the end referring to his flat - what does she know?
One or two getting a bit over-excited on here this evening. Tonight's measures are a very long way away from this time last year - the Working from Home guidelines will have little or no impact and the mask wearing - if you want to attend an outdoor event without having to worry about crowds, I'd recommend a Lingfield all-weather meeting during the week.
I'm struck by the fact it was barely two years ago, Johnson was swept back into power on a tide of popular acclaim and 44% of the vote. It's a salient lesson of how the fortunes of politics change - oddly enough, I wonder whether, having coveted the job for so long, Johnson believes if it was all worth the effort. The virus could have happened on someone else's watch and he might have been the political beneficiary but it happened on his watch and he's the one copping the flak.
"Be careful what you wish for", as the saying goes.
Boris is actually handling the presser OK, it is not the shitshow I expected. It is nonetheless horribly depressing
Another Christmas, another winter, another year, another variant, another decade....
Laura K is spectacularly good for a change. She sounds angry. It's the Scottish Presbyterian coming out. The inter cuts between Laura and Allegra is worthy of a Bafta editing award
Don't know what your lot did with yours'.
HYUFD in "SNP are sensible and moderate" shocker.
Hmm
Which is why the building takedowns by Ant or Dec have been so brutal. As you say, destroying him by open contempt.
https://twitter.com/ryanjl74/status/1468349863234519042?s=21
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/14/attacks-by-pms-ousted-aide-left-new-press-chief-in-tears
It's odd purely because it was her job to be briefed against.
I don't know why you want to have a whine at the "left" all the time these days.
Why are we messing around with distractions (such as what circle of hell requires a vaxport, and which only a facemask) when the message should be very clearly to vaccinate early and often?
The vaccine strategy is being completely undermined by the government's own actions and messages.
Certainly vaxports seem irrelevant now
This is a bleak bleak moment
I stumbled on something earlier that I though might interest you. I was looking at the etymology for 'rogue'; it's uncertain, but there's a theory that it's a shortened form of roger (with a long o and hard g like rogue - not like Roger. but still!) which, according to lots of places on the internet but I can't find an original source for the claim, meant:
"thieves' slang for a begging vagabond who pretends to be a poor scholar from Oxford or Cambridge"
I'll get my coat.
Saying we have less restrictions than some places sound lot like in Mars Attacks - they’ve blown up congress, but you still have half your government working for you.
So, is Cambridge poorly provided for with boosters? Or am I being penalised for booking early?
I'd imagine by the third time people are going to a venue and both staff and customers are familiar with the process it is quick but requires extra staffing on the turnstiles.
Must be likely.
I still think the Tories winning the seat is a distinct possibility though, for the same reason.
Given this, why the hell aren't we jabbing over 500k per day yet? I had a walk-in jab on Sunday so there was clearly some capacity ahead of the system being updated.
Vaccines are the answer, not further restrictions. At least not until we know if the threat on track to overwhelm the NHS, which we don't yet.
This is going to destroy so much hospitality. A tragedy unfolds
Wrong again.
But that wasn't the nations choice. You were a minority and lost the vote. A majority were bothered so that's the decision made.
I don't think I ever did get to the bottom of the CHB moniker. It's a quiet eveing, no PMs in trouble, no end to the world! Surely a (do dramatise) story of a famous PB moniker will draw an audience of ... er lots!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10266581/Boris-Johnson-speech-leaving-Cleo-Watson.html
Labour will be 10+ points ahead soon
https://xkcd.com/936/
Restrictions have always been the wrong answer to this pandemic, but at least last time round there was a point "we're waiting for the vaccines" / "we're rolling out the vaccines". There is no point now - we have vaccines, we've double jabbed almost everyone at any real risk, and triple jabbed the most vulnerable.
Polling on this is massively skewed because - most people want to WFH for reasons unrelated to the pandemic, and those least in favour of restrictions are least likely to be polled because they will be out living their lives rather than cowering at home being rung by opinion pollsters.
I miss them; many of my childhood memories revolve around mealtimes and those pews. But I've got the clock that hung above the table.
All of this is being done to cover up Boris and his dodgy parties.
sex nymphbabysitter.