Only 1/3 of Conservative voters in the poll however think Boris should resign.
Hopefully Allegra Stratton's resignation should begin to draw a line under the story
See Guido Fawkes post I linked below, I don't think it will be anywhere near enough, so many people are implicated in multiple gatherings.
Any other No 10 staff who attended this party or other parties during lockdown should be sacked or disciplined.
However as long as Boris was not personally at this party he will stay
They all work for Boris. He is responsible.
He isn't if he was not there and did not organise it.
Most Tory voters still want Boris to stay on this afternoon's polls, he will therefore stay despite the usual anti Boris hysteria on here (most of it from those who did not vote Tory in 2019 anyway(
I refer you to the woman on R5 this afternoon, who joined the party because of Boris, and has just resigned saying that it's obvious he's "lying through his teeth".
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
Let say he wasn't even in Downing Street the day of the party (which it is suggested he was), the chances not a single person ever mentioned well such and such got twatted or talk of stupid secret santa presents etc....not a single person ever let it slip there was a piss up, not a chance.
The irony is that the Pen Farthing story is far, far more serious, but has been displaced from the news by Partygate.
That hasn't gone away. I thought sks would devote half his questions to it today. He was right not to do so but there's always next Wednesday. And the publication of the fac report.
Half the country were fully behind rescuing the fucking cats and dogs.
That's the alarming thing. There's probably a majority in favour of prioritising the evacuation of animals over Afghans.
Worth recalling that Douglas Ross resigned his ministerial job over the Cummings trip.
Boris out would be quite a boost for the Scottish Tories, so he's really got nothing to lose and, at the same time, enhancing his reputation for independent thinking.
The Allegra Stratton mess also makes me question my prior assumption this is a Cummings hit job. Cummings is married to Mary Wakefield, another Spectator editor (and, no doubt, a friend of Stratton)
Is Dominic that envenomed he would take down his friends as well as his enemies?
If you're going to eliminate members of the ruling elite because they have connections to the Speccie then it can't be any member of the ruling elite.
On topic, the worst thing from this polling is this.
Three in ten say they are less likely to follow Covid rules as a result (29%).
This rises to a third of Labour voters (33%) and those aged 18-34 (33%) who say the same.
Over half say they are just as likely to follow the rules (54%)
Whatever Boris Johnson announces tonight will be ignored by large parts of the country making us less secure.
He needs to go and be replaced by someone with the credibility and authority to launch you new Covid-19 measures.
That sounds like a reason that he should stay.
When it comes to restrictions then we need to take a drugs stance to them: Just Say No.
Indeed, if you want further restrictions vote for Starmer and note most of those refusing to comply following this are young Labour voters, so that is more his problem
Just utter garbage from you today. Making up rubbish, and weird rubbish at that. You're so odd
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
I really don't know how anyone can take on a job like that, defending a government whatever they do, (a la Trump/Spicer).
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
True but McBride and Draper's scalps were the end of the matter, even though nobody believed it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country, during a time of great death and suffering. The emotional impact on her must be severe, and it will be long lasting
She had to resign, and it is good that she did. But she's still a human being. She made a foolish, throwaway remark about a party which - it seems - she never even attended. Who hasn't made a daft remark that would look terrible if filmed and put in a different context?
One can condemn the actions but still forgive the person. And she has done the right thing. Resigned almost immediately
She hasn't been painted like that, she is heartless.
While we were all making sacrificing she was taking the piss.
Isn't your present avatar from that dreadful allo allo thing on the telly?
Your opinions on inappropriate humour take on a very special value in the light of that. Do go on.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country...
By the PM himself during PMQs, the hypocritical fncker.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country...
By the PM himself during PMQs, the hypocritical fncker.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Exactly. Laughing and saying "what's the answer?" Damned if I know. What IS the answer?
Sadiq Khan, PCC for London, puts pressure on Met to investigate No10 parties.
Labour spox: “Sadiq is clear any investigation is an operational matter for the police, but of course their role is to ensure the law is followed. The police must do their job without fear or favour." https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1468619542607941633
British cyclist Mark Cavendish was assaulted by four armed men during a burglary at his home on 27 November. Cavendish, 36, said he, his wife and their children were threatened "at knifepoint" by the men and he was "violently attacked".
This is only a week after he suffered serious injury in a crash.
The irony is that the Pen Farthing story is far, far more serious, but has been displaced from the news by Partygate.
That hasn't gone away. I thought sks would devote half his questions to it today. He was right not to do so but there's always next Wednesday. And the publication of the fac report.
Half the country were fully behind rescuing the fucking cats and dogs.
That's the alarming thing. There's probably a majority in favour of prioritising the evacuation of animals over Afghans.
Especially in Hastings!
I spent four years as Legacy Officer for an animal charity, and encountered a lot of donors who would prioritise animal lives over human lives.
We had an annual general meeting, where I was eating chicken for lunch, and the woman sitting next to me stared at my plate and said "I don't eat my friends."
Most frightening detail in here: Republicans in Congress were afraid to vote for impeachment because they feared for the safety of their families. Violence is now an integral part of American politics https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1468510857420226561
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country...
By the PM himself during PMQs, the hypocritical fncker.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Yes, she squirmed and nervously giggled as she realised how difficult the job could be, answering impossibly thorny questions. That's her *crime*
She didn't say "hahahahaha thousands of dead people let them rot"
She's actually fairly innocent in all this. But she had to go, and it is good that she did (for her own sanity, as well)
British cyclist Mark Cavendish was assaulted by four armed men during a burglary at his home on 27 November. Cavendish, 36, said he, his wife and their children were threatened "at knifepoint" by the men and he was "violently attacked".
This is only a week after he suffered serious injury in a crash.
Whilst he was just out of intensive care with a punctured lung
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country, during a time of great death and suffering. The emotional impact on her must be severe, and it will be long lasting
She had to resign, and it is good that she did. But she's still a human being. She made a foolish, throwaway remark about a party which - it seems - she never even attended. Who hasn't made a daft remark that would look terrible if filmed and put in a different context?
One can condemn the actions but still forgive the person. And she has done the right thing. Resigned almost immediately
She hasn't been painted like that, she is heartless.
While we were all making sacrificing she was taking the piss.
Isn't your present avatar from that dreadful allo allo thing on the telly?
Your opinions on inappropriate humour take on a very special value in the light of that. Do go on.
Yes, Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo.
On your final point, I was never stupid enough to run for elected office or work for any elected official, my inappropriate humour is fine, although it has occasionally triggered the odd PBer.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country...
By the PM himself during PMQs, the hypocritical fncker.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Exactly. Laughing and saying "what's the answer?" Damned if I know. What IS the answer?
Delete the recording of you laughing is first answer.
The irony is that the Pen Farthing story is far, far more serious, but has been displaced from the news by Partygate.
That hasn't gone away. I thought sks would devote half his questions to it today. He was right not to do so but there's always next Wednesday. And the publication of the fac report.
Half the country were fully behind rescuing the fucking cats and dogs.
That's the alarming thing. There's probably a majority in favour of prioritising the evacuation of animals over Afghans.
Especially in Hastings!
I spent four years as Legacy Officer for an animal charity, and encountered a lot of donors who would prioritise animal lives over human lives.
We had an annual general meeting, where I was eating chicken for lunch, and the woman sitting next to me stared at my plate and said "I don't eat my friends."
Fans attending sports events including Premier League matches this weekend are expected to be required to have vaccine passports or proof of a negative test as part of new government rules to tackle the Covid pandemic.
The Premier League was in talks with Whitehall officials on Wednesday seeking clarification on the requirements of complying with the government’s plan B, due to be announced to deal with the spread of the Omicron variant.
Glad I went to see Spurs on Sunday, I expect getting into the stadium will now take 2-3h of queuing and checking vaccine status with arguments and fights breaking out.
It'll be interesting to see if they accept the blue cards issued at vaccination rather than an "app" on a phone. I've been surveyed twice so far this season (once at Arsenal and once at Leicester), and on both occasions the blue card was fine.
I still object to them asking, but so long as they aren't insisting on me downloading something on to my phone, then I'm not too worried. But there is bound to be trouble if they actually stop people from entering without proof of being vaccinated.
You can order a paper document from the NHS Hospitals - more official than the card but not linked to the matrix
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
And we had Article 50, which could override our membership of the EU. You've the demolished the EU/sovereignty argument in an instant. A bit late but thanks anyway.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
Ah ok. I wasn't aware that you needed an export license to ship products from Texas to Florida, or New Brunswick to Manitoba, or Brandenburg to Bavaria. Appreciate the correction.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country, during a time of great death and suffering. The emotional impact on her must be severe, and it will be long lasting
She had to resign, and it is good that she did. But she's still a human being. She made a foolish, throwaway remark about a party which - it seems - she never even attended. Who hasn't made a daft remark that would look terrible if filmed and put in a different context?
One can condemn the actions but still forgive the person. And she has done the right thing. Resigned almost immediately
She hasn't been painted like that, she is heartless.
While we were all making sacrificing she was taking the piss.
Good grief - she’s heartless based on this situation??
She wasn’t taking the piss out of people being locked down v Downing Street denizens having a jolly.
She was clearly, like most normal people, laughing at the ridiculousness of the situation of potentially answering questions she couldn’t really answer as firstly she wasn’t there and secondly she most likely had been briefed what she had to say. It’s almost as if her comments were the living reality of this emoji 🤷🏻♀️
And since when did everyone have to be so fucking serious - bad shit happens and people laugh and joke about things to get through - gallows humour, tommies joking as they are being bombed by the Germans, my friends who are doctors in A&E who have ripped the piss out of the situation as - well it’s not going to make things better than being a puritan wanker or worse constantly pretending to be so miserable.
I quite happily admit that I’ve constantly used humour in my personal and professional situation over the last two years, including around the long lead up and aftermath of my father’s death last year so I cannot support this ridiculous po-faced bollocks about someone laughing - they weren’t mocking people suffering - they were mocking the situation they found themselves in.
The irony is that the Pen Farthing story is far, far more serious, but has been displaced from the news by Partygate.
That hasn't gone away. I thought sks would devote half his questions to it today. He was right not to do so but there's always next Wednesday. And the publication of the fac report.
Half the country were fully behind rescuing the fucking cats and dogs.
Sure, but Boris told the most bizarre porky of his career when he said the pps arranged the flight as a constituency matter. Hopefully he can be nailed on that
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country...
By the PM himself during PMQs, the hypocritical fncker.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Exactly. Laughing and saying "what's the answer?" Damned if I know. What IS the answer?
Delete the recording of you laughing is first answer.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
And we had Article 50, which could override our membership of the EU. You've the demolished the EU/sovereignty argument in an instant. A bit late but thanks anyway.
I've always accepted we had Article 50, I never denied that.
You can't say "but we had Article 50" if you don't also accept we now have Article 16.
Only 1/3 of Conservative voters in the poll however think Boris should resign.
Hopefully Allegra Stratton's resignation should begin to draw a line under the story
See Guido Fawkes post I linked below, I don't think it will be anywhere near enough, so many people are implicated in multiple gatherings.
Any other No 10 staff who attended this party or other parties during lockdown should be sacked or disciplined.
However as long as Boris was not personally at this party he will stay
They all work for Boris. He is responsible.
He isn't if he was not there and did not organise it.
Most Tory voters still want Boris to stay on this afternoon's polls, he will therefore stay despite the usual anti Boris hysteria on here (most of it from those who did not vote Tory in 2019 anyway(
He is their boss. Whatever they do they do it because someone who works for Boris told them it was ok. His is the ultimate responsibility.
And then you go on about the polls. You are defending a party that doesn't want people like you as a member.
I rather suspect it has as much to do with him setting such a bad example.
The irony is that the Pen Farthing story is far, far more serious, but has been displaced from the news by Partygate.
That hasn't gone away. I thought sks would devote half his questions to it today. He was right not to do so but there's always next Wednesday. And the publication of the fac report.
Half the country were fully behind rescuing the fucking cats and dogs.
That's the alarming thing. There's probably a majority in favour of prioritising the evacuation of animals over Afghans.
Especially in Hastings!
I spent four years as Legacy Officer for an animal charity, and encountered a lot of donors who would prioritise animal lives over human lives.
We had an annual general meeting, where I was eating chicken for lunch, and the woman sitting next to me stared at my plate and said "I don't eat my friends."
Yes; as a pharmacist and a medicines user I've had many 'discussion' with anti-vivisectionists. It often makes me smile when I see comments about cosmetics not being tested on animals, when at some stage some of the ingredients probably were. Admittedly not for those particular cosmetics of course. Used to be quite difficult sometimes when vegans would ask for medicines 'with no animal products involved'!
Fans attending sports events including Premier League matches this weekend are expected to be required to have vaccine passports or proof of a negative test as part of new government rules to tackle the Covid pandemic.
The Premier League was in talks with Whitehall officials on Wednesday seeking clarification on the requirements of complying with the government’s plan B, due to be announced to deal with the spread of the Omicron variant.
Glad I went to see Spurs on Sunday, I expect getting into the stadium will now take 2-3h of queuing and checking vaccine status with arguments and fights breaking out.
It'll be interesting to see if they accept the blue cards issued at vaccination rather than an "app" on a phone. I've been surveyed twice so far this season (once at Arsenal and once at Leicester), and on both occasions the blue card was fine.
I still object to them asking, but so long as they aren't insisting on me downloading something on to my phone, then I'm not too worried. But there is bound to be trouble if they actually stop people from entering without proof of being vaccinated.
You can order a paper document from the NHS Hospitals - more official than the card but not linked to the matrix
Whilst I object to Vaxports on principle, they exist and I can't do the things I want to do without them. So I just show the QR code on the app. Why faff with paper documents?
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country, during a time of great death and suffering. The emotional impact on her must be severe, and it will be long lasting
She had to resign, and it is good that she did. But she's still a human being. She made a foolish, throwaway remark about a party which - it seems - she never even attended. Who hasn't made a daft remark that would look terrible if filmed and put in a different context?
One can condemn the actions but still forgive the person. And she has done the right thing. Resigned almost immediately
She hasn't been painted like that, she is heartless.
While we were all making sacrificing she was taking the piss.
Good grief - she’s heartless based on this situation??
She wasn’t taking the piss out of people being locked down v Downing Street denizens having a jolly.
She was clearly, like most normal people, laughing at the ridiculousness of the situation of potentially answering questions she couldn’t really answer as firstly she wasn’t there and secondly she most likely had been briefed what she had to say. It’s almost as if her comments were the living reality of this emoji 🤷🏻♀️
And since when did everyone have to be so fucking serious - bad shit happens and people laugh and joke about things to get through - gallows humour, tommies joking as they are being bombed by the Germans, my friends who are doctors in A&E who have ripped the piss out of the situation as - well it’s not going to make things better than being a puritan wanker or worse constantly pretending to be so miserable.
I quite happily admit that I’ve constantly used humour in my personal and professional situation over the last two years, including around the long lead up and aftermath of my father’s death last year so I cannot support this ridiculous po-faced bollocks about someone laughing - they weren’t mocking people suffering - they were mocking the situation they found themselves in.
Yes, TSE is being a puritanical knob
We all use dark humour, and my God we have needed it these last 20 months. And hers wasn't even that offensive, it has just been torn out of context - very effectively
The irony is that the Pen Farthing story is far, far more serious, but has been displaced from the news by Partygate.
That hasn't gone away. I thought sks would devote half his questions to it today. He was right not to do so but there's always next Wednesday. And the publication of the fac report.
Half the country were fully behind rescuing the fucking cats and dogs.
Sure, but Boris told the most bizarre porky of his career when he said the pps arranged the flight as a constituency matter. Hopefully he can be nailed on that
I hope the select committee will interview her. It should be instructive.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country...
By the PM himself during PMQs, the hypocritical fncker.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Yes, she squirmed and nervously giggled as she realised how difficult the job could be, answering impossibly thorny questions. That's her *crime*
She didn't say "hahahahaha thousands of dead people let them rot"
She's actually fairly innocent in all this. But she had to go, and it is good that she did (for her own sanity, as well)
Yet according to the media narrative, inc Mail headline, No 10 staff laughed about illegal party.
The Allegra Stratton mess also makes me question my prior assumption this is a Cummings hit job. Cummings is married to Mary Wakefield, another Spectator editor (and, no doubt, a friend of Stratton)
Is Dominic that envenomed he would take down his friends as well as his enemies?
Wasn't part of Cummings initial fall out with Carrie over her wanting Allergra as the PMs spokesperson and Dom wanting his placeman?
Most frightening detail in here: Republicans in Congress were afraid to vote for impeachment because they feared for the safety of their families. Violence is now an integral part of American politics https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1468510857420226561
What rot. They aided and abetted Trump on the way in, I can't be having their crocodile tears now.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
True but McBride and Draper's scalps were the end of the matter, even though nobody believed it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
The damage to the PM sticks though. Leaders rarely fall for one reason alone; it's usually an accumulation. So it will be this time.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country, during a time of great death and suffering. The emotional impact on her must be severe, and it will be long lasting
She had to resign, and it is good that she did. But she's still a human being. She made a foolish, throwaway remark about a party which - it seems - she never even attended. Who hasn't made a daft remark that would look terrible if filmed and put in a different context?
One can condemn the actions but still forgive the person. And she has done the right thing. Resigned almost immediately
She hasn't been painted like that, she is heartless.
While we were all making sacrificing she was taking the piss.
Good grief - she’s heartless based on this situation??
She wasn’t taking the piss out of people being locked down v Downing Street denizens having a jolly.
She was clearly, like most normal people, laughing at the ridiculousness of the situation of potentially answering questions she couldn’t really answer as firstly she wasn’t there and secondly she most likely had been briefed what she had to say. It’s almost as if her comments were the living reality of this emoji 🤷🏻♀️
And since when did everyone have to be so fucking serious - bad shit happens and people laugh and joke about things to get through - gallows humour, tommies joking as they are being bombed by the Germans, my friends who are doctors in A&E who have ripped the piss out of the situation as - well it’s not going to make things better than being a puritan wanker or worse constantly pretending to be so miserable.
I quite happily admit that I’ve constantly used humour in my personal and professional situation over the last two years, including around the long lead up and aftermath of my father’s death last year so I cannot support this ridiculous po-faced bollocks about someone laughing - they weren’t mocking people suffering - they were mocking the situation they found themselves in.
Yes, TSE is being a puritanical knob
We all use dark humour, and my God we have needed it these last 20 months. And hers wasn't even that offensive, it has just been torn out of context - very effectively
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has apologised for going clubbing after coming into close contact with a Covid-19 case. Sanna Marin went on a night out in Helsinki on Saturday, hours after her foreign minister had tested positive. She was initially told she did not need to isolate because she had been fully vaccinated, but later missed a text that advised her to do so.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
Ah ok. I wasn't aware that you needed an export license to ship products from Texas to Florida, or New Brunswick to Manitoba, or Brandenburg to Bavaria. Appreciate the correction.
This whole sovereignty thing is like the emperor's new clothes. It's all in the thought or wish, rather than the actual substance. The EU now has 27 sovereign countries all trading with each other over agreed rules. France actually has control over her borders with GB as well, they could quite easily allow asylum seekers a free hand to leave France anytime, heading for GB.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
I really don't know how anyone can take on a job like that, defending a government whatever they do, (a la Trump/Spicer).
Isn't that actually what all Ministers have to do - defending the government whatever happens?
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
Ah ok. I wasn't aware that you needed an export license to ship products from Texas to Florida, or New Brunswick to Manitoba, or Brandenburg to Bavaria. Appreciate the correction.
How about Brandenburg to Büsingen am Hochrhein How about Hahnbach to Heligoland? How about Livorno to Livigno? How about Cádiz to Ceuta? How about Madrid to Melila?
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has apologised for going clubbing after coming into close contact with a Covid-19 case. Sanna Marin went on a night out in Helsinki on Saturday, hours after her foreign minister had tested positive. She was initially told she did not need to isolate because she had been fully vaccinated, but later missed a text that advised her to do so.
A problem Number 10 has now is that, given Allegra Stratton has gone, why shouldn't everyone yucking it up in the room with her also go? She wasn't the only person audibly laughing on the tape. And why shouldn't all the people actually at the party go? And all the people, PM pretty obviously included, who knew what was going on?
She certainly isn't uniquely at fault here. Indeed, as others have said, it was the embarrassed laughter of "how do I defend the indefensible?" in any event.
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has apologised for going clubbing after coming into close contact with a Covid-19 case. Sanna Marin went on a night out in Helsinki on Saturday, hours after her foreign minister had tested positive. She was initially told she did not need to isolate because she had been fully vaccinated, but later missed a text that advised her to do so.
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has apologised for going clubbing after coming into close contact with a Covid-19 case. Sanna Marin went on a night out in Helsinki on Saturday, hours after her foreign minister had tested positive. She was initially told she did not need to isolate because she had been fully vaccinated, but later missed a text that advised her to do so.
I fear we are soon to return to the dark days of 2020 when certain PBers spend every waking hour searching for people who have transgressed the rules, and subject them to public shaming from the moral high ground.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
True but McBride and Draper's scalps were the end of the matter, even though nobody believed it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
The damage to the PM sticks though. Leaders rarely fall for one reason alone; it's usually an accumulation. So it will be this time.
Agreed. This is a wound, and it will stick, but its not fatal to him.
If he attempts to put us into lockdown again though, I think it will be the final straw.
He's lost all moral authority to do that ever again - thank goodness!
The Allegra Stratton mess also makes me question my prior assumption this is a Cummings hit job. Cummings is married to Mary Wakefield, another Spectator editor (and, no doubt, a friend of Stratton)
Is Dominic that envenomed he would take down his friends as well as his enemies?
Wasn't part of Cummings initial fall out with Carrie over her wanting Allergra as the PMs spokesperson and Dom wanting his placeman?
Ellie Price was the other front-runner. Until the clown insisted on Allegra for fear of what her indoors would do to him otherwise.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
True but McBride and Draper's scalps were the end of the matter, even though nobody believed it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
The damage to the PM sticks though. Leaders rarely fall for one reason alone; it's usually an accumulation. So it will be this time.
Agreed. This is a wound, and it will stick, but its not fatal to him.
If he attempts to put us into lockdown again though, I think it will be the final straw.
He's lost all moral authority to do that ever again - thank goodness!
He might hang around like a bad smell for a few more weeks/months but after that PMQ's I think it's all over!
He is now totally reliant that there is no evidence at all he was aware of a party and that people who gets pushed under the bus don't have whatsapp groups with jokes about it in which Boris is a member.
Feel rather sorry for Stratton. This will haunt her, as she tearfully says, for the rest of her life
This gives the lie to any idea this is some kind of internal Spectator/ITV plot. She is married to James Forsyth, the Spec's political ed, he won't be happy seeing his wife in bits, nor will their kids be overjoyed at the sight of Mum weeping on telly
Bollocks, she's crying because she got caught, no sympathy.
No, she isn't. She has been painted as a heartless witch in front of an entire country, during a time of great death and suffering. The emotional impact on her must be severe, and it will be long lasting
She had to resign, and it is good that she did. But she's still a human being. She made a foolish, throwaway remark about a party which - it seems - she never even attended. Who hasn't made a daft remark that would look terrible if filmed and put in a different context?
One can condemn the actions but still forgive the person. And she has done the right thing. Resigned almost immediately
She seems far from the worst of them, and not really of a piece with a number in the Cabinet. The fact that she's out there as the sacrificial lamb crying on her doorstep, while Johnson remains in place trying to avoid responsibility as throughout the rest of his life, just increases my contempt.
I've never wanted and considered it so urgent for a Prime Minister to be immediately out, not even Thatcher in the height of her late '80s arrogance.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
We were always technically sovereign, we could only exercise that sovereignty by invoking Article 50 so we rightly did when people wanted to exercise that sovereignty.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
True but McBride and Draper's scalps were the end of the matter, even though nobody believed it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
The damage to the PM sticks though. Leaders rarely fall for one reason alone; it's usually an accumulation. So it will be this time.
Agreed. This is a wound, and it will stick, but its not fatal to him.
If he attempts to put us into lockdown again though, I think it will be the final straw.
He's lost all moral authority to do that ever again - thank goodness!
That depends on whether the letters go in.
I think the letters depend upon next steps. It wouldn't surprise me if at least a few people have hinted or said "any more restrictions and my letter goes in".
The implied threat of sending a letter can be more powerful than actually doing so.
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has apologised for going clubbing after coming into close contact with a Covid-19 case. Sanna Marin went on a night out in Helsinki on Saturday, hours after her foreign minister had tested positive. She was initially told she did not need to isolate because she had been fully vaccinated, but later missed a text that advised her to do so.
A problem Number 10 has now is that, given Allegra Stratton has gone, why shouldn't everyone yucking it up in the room with her also go? She wasn't the only person audibly laughing on the tape. And why shouldn't all the people actually at the party go? And all the people, PM pretty obviously included, who knew what was going on?
She certainly isn't uniquely at fault here. Indeed, as others have said, it was the embarrassed laughter of "how do I defend the indefensible?" in any event.
If anything she is likely less at fault because she presumably wasn't actually there.
Likely to be an announcement to Commons tomorrow afternoon with briefing at 5pm tomorrow. NOT CONFIRMED
Will be absolutely laughable if they even think about it. What planet are these people on?
It's completely mental, today Pfizer announce that three doses gives a high level of neutralising protection against Omicron, our booster programme is mostly Pfizer and yet the idiots in charge are desperately looking for a dead cat to distract the nation so we'll end up with completely unnecessary restrictions with no end date because if this is the new normal (COVID being endemic and all that) then these NPIs also become the new normal.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
Boris having no idea what so ever, its about as believable as Gordo having no idea what McBride and Draper were up to, when they sat right next to him day in day out.
True but McBride and Draper's scalps were the end of the matter, even though nobody believed it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
This is spectacular in its wrongness. Stratton isn't a credible scapegoat, because nobody is saying she went to the party, nor that she suggested there was a party. She laughed at the suggestion there was a party, putting her 3 steps away from responsibility for it. Compare the fitting up of the pps over the animal flight. Boris lashing out in blind panic.
Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has apologised for going clubbing after coming into close contact with a Covid-19 case. Sanna Marin went on a night out in Helsinki on Saturday, hours after her foreign minister had tested positive. She was initially told she did not need to isolate because she had been fully vaccinated, but later missed a text that advised her to do so.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
I really don't know how anyone can take on a job like that, defending a government whatever they do, (a la Trump/Spicer).
LOL. That would be a classic; new restrictions after today.
But they have announced new restrictions today. At the very least, vax passports at football grounds.
No, that's the expectation of Plan B.
I wonder whether the whip's office has told Boris he doesn't have the votes and will need opposition votes to push it through. Surely that makes him untenable as Tory leader, we saw when May had to rely on opposition votes her days were numbered.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
I really don't know how anyone can take on a job like that, defending a government whatever they do, (a la Trump/Spicer).
Isn't that actually what all Ministers have to do - defending the government whatever happens?
Ministers can hide, press secretaries can't. Theresa May as Home Secretary was a classic example of a minister who was great at finding things to do other than come out swinging for the Government whenever Cameron was in a spot of bother - it both won her the leadership, and proved a problem when she was in the top job as she found herself less able to keep a low profile.
As a minister you can, in general, avoid interviews if it's not your specific area, and do a bit of the old, "I've been far too busy focussing on the needs of farmers as agriculture minister to spend a lazy morning reading the gutter press" schtick if you get hit with a curveball. Press secretaries can't really do that.
Likely to be an announcement to Commons tomorrow afternoon with briefing at 5pm tomorrow. NOT CONFIRMED
Will be absolutely laughable if they even think about it. What planet are these people on?
It's completely mental, today Pfizer announce that three doses gives a high level of neutralising protection against Omicron, our booster programme is mostly Pfizer and yet the idiots in charge are desperately looking for a dead cat to distract the nation so we'll end up with completely unnecessary restrictions with no end date because if this is the new normal (COVID being endemic and all that) then these NPIs also become the new normal.
I think the current news makes new restrictions less likely not more likely. A bit like the leaking of Hancock's video. Which is possibly why it was leaked.
This has shot to pieces any moral authority the PM had for new restrictions. I think even if he was planning new restrictions, those now are hopefully stillborn because he knows now he can't do that.
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
We were always technically sovereign, we could only exercise that sovereignty by invoking Article 50 so we rightly did when people wanted to exercise that sovereignty.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
So as it stands we are not sovereign because we haven't exercised it. Is that right?
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
I really don't know how anyone can take on a job like that, defending a government whatever they do, (a la Trump/Spicer).
Isn't that actually what all Ministers have to do - defending the government whatever happens?
She isn't a politician though, she's a journalist, who hopefully wants to continue working afterwards.
Most frightening detail in here: Republicans in Congress were afraid to vote for impeachment because they feared for the safety of their families. Violence is now an integral part of American politics https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1468510857420226561
What rot. They aided and abetted Trump on the way in, I can't be having their crocodile tears now.
Irrespective of whether you have sympathy for them, that national politicians should reasonably fear threat of extreme violence from their own party in this way is pretty disturbing.
Likely to be an announcement to Commons tomorrow afternoon with briefing at 5pm tomorrow. NOT CONFIRMED
Will be absolutely laughable if they even think about it. What planet are these people on?
It's completely mental, today Pfizer announce that three doses gives a high level of neutralising protection against Omicron, our booster programme is mostly Pfizer and yet the idiots in charge are desperately looking for a dead cat to distract the nation so we'll end up with completely unnecessary restrictions with no end date because if this is the new normal (COVID being endemic and all that) then these NPIs also become the new normal.
Most of us have AZ-AZ-Pfizer. So not sure the Pfizer statement covers that.
Please cry for me, Allegra Stratton The truth is... I have no idea what the truth is.
I've just watched the video: am I alone in thinking that Ms Stratton has been extremely hard done by?
She made a joke and laughed inappropriately and had to resign. That’s all I can see she’s done. Anything else?
She's been thrown under the bus in an attempt to slow it down. I can only hope it doesn't work.
The only reason my sympathy is slightly limited is because she was the PM's press secretary, so a) she could probably have known better than to make jokes like that while the camera was rolling, and b) this eventuality would always have been priced into her salary.
Stratton - even last year - understood that there was no defence. Nor, if we're to take her at her word then (and it was in private and wasn't contradicted then, so it's probably reasonable to do so), was she at the party.
If she should go for having said something embarrassing, where does that leave those who actually did the thing that it was embarrassing to admit to? Or their boss, who must have known about it.
I agree. I said similar on the last thread. She was just preparing for questions and laughing at how to answer an impossible question. Not sure she has done anything wrong.
Unbelievably on the last thread HYUFD thinks Allegra is more to blame than Boris. I mean how?
She was the one laughing about this party not Boris who was not even in the room
She was laughing because it was an impossible question to answer and trying to think up responses all of which sounded absurd. She did nothing wrong other than her job of trying to defend Boris/Govt. This was preparation and they had to go through the scenarios. She laughed because it was indefensible and the possible answers crass.
Whereas Boris has been denying a party took place which he knew was a lie or if he didn't he should have jolly well known. I mean how many clues has he been given over the last week.
I really don't know how anyone can take on a job like that, defending a government whatever they do, (a la Trump/Spicer).
Isn't that actually what all Ministers have to do - defending the government whatever happens?
As we saw this morning, they have the option of going into hiding.
Likely to be an announcement to Commons tomorrow afternoon with briefing at 5pm tomorrow. NOT CONFIRMED
Will be absolutely laughable if they even think about it. What planet are these people on?
It's completely mental, today Pfizer announce that three doses gives a high level of neutralising protection against Omicron, our booster programme is mostly Pfizer and yet the idiots in charge are desperately looking for a dead cat to distract the nation so we'll end up with completely unnecessary restrictions with no end date because if this is the new normal (COVID being endemic and all that) then these NPIs also become the new normal.
I think the current news makes new restrictions less likely not more likely. A bit like the leaking of Hancock's video. Which is possibly why it was leaked.
This has shot to pieces any moral authority the PM had for new restrictions. I think even if he was planning new restrictions, those now are hopefully stillborn because he knows now he can't do that.
Hope so at least.
I don't think so, Boris likes a big gesture and plan B is a big gesture that will capture the front pages for a few days. It will make precisely zero difference to COVID, one only needs to look at continental Europe where they have got all of the plan B restrictions plus a lot more yet face a worse winter than we do. The only reason to implement plan B is to grab headlines and make it look like they are doing something.
While Westminster has been imploding, I’ve been in North Shropshire looking ahead to next week’s by-election. Pretty much everyone I spoke to (regardless of voting intention) raised the No10 Christmas party. People very, very unimpressed https://twitter.com/LizzyBuchan/status/1468624973128695810
For all those supporting BoJo - what success has he delivered over the last 2 years?
I am not supporting him, but he got us out of the EU, got a trade deal that protected our sovereignty more than anyone said was possible, and got us a vaccine program earlier than anyone else in Europe
The one that ended the United Kingdom as a trading block and forces GB and NI companies to have export licences to sell things to each other?
If that's protecting the sovereignty of the UK I'd hate to see what not ptotecting it looks like.
Theresa May's backstop.
Infinitely worse.
Perhaps, but isn't relevant to the argument @Aslan was promoting. He said that the current trade deal - which dissolved the UK trading area - "protected our sovereignty". I now need an export license to sell products in my own country. How has that protected our sovereignty to do things like not need an export license to trade inside our own country...
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
It did protect our sovereignty because we had Article 16 so could override it. The ending is not indisputable, we'll see what the situation is post-Article 16.
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
On that logic while in the EU our sovereignty was protected because we could always leave.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
We were always technically sovereign, we could only exercise that sovereignty by invoking Article 50 so we rightly did when people wanted to exercise that sovereignty.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
So as it stands we are not sovereign because we haven't exercised it. Is that right?
No of course not. We were always sovereign.
We have put our sovereignty into abeyance until we invoke the Article. Its still there, like a break glass, but until we want to do so we're simply not exercising it.
So if you want to exercise your sovereignty you can invoke the Article. If you don't and are OK with abeyance, then no need to do so.
Comments
Let say he wasn't even in Downing Street the day of the party (which it is suggested he was), the chances not a single person ever mentioned well such and such got twatted or talk of stupid secret santa presents etc....not a single person ever let it slip there was a piss up, not a chance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-59582426
Worth recalling that Douglas Ross resigned his ministerial job over the Cummings trip.
Boris out would be quite a boost for the Scottish Tories, so he's really got nothing to lose and, at the same time, enhancing his reputation for independent thinking.
I don't need you to come back in with alternative takes on external sovereignty - you have one perspective on that, I have another. But the ending of the UK as a trading nation is indisputable - we are now split in two with GB as one trading zone and NI as another trading zone. Usually deals that protect a country's sovereignty doesn't split a chunk off it.
Once the scalp comes it becomes easier to move on. The press and critics have their scalp now - and its a powerful tearful scalp too.
If I was too be cynical I'd say that those tears were her last bit of service to the Prime Minister in her role. I'm not that cynical though, I suspect they were genuine.
Your opinions on inappropriate humour take on a very special value in the light of that. Do go on.
https://twitter.com/acatherwoodnews/status/1468619234758610951
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1468618149780148229
There are plenty of countries that have had chunks split off, where its convenient to do so, its far from unprecedented.
Watching the video I thought the laughter was a lot more out of embarrassment than amusement, FWIW.
Damned if I know. What IS the answer?
Labour spox: “Sadiq is clear any investigation is an operational matter for the police, but of course their role is to ensure the law is followed. The police must do their job without fear or favour."
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1468619542607941633
British cyclist Mark Cavendish was assaulted by four armed men during a burglary at his home on 27 November. Cavendish, 36, said he, his wife and their children were threatened "at knifepoint" by the men and he was "violently attacked".
This is only a week after he suffered serious injury in a crash.
We had an annual general meeting, where I was eating chicken for lunch, and the woman sitting next to me stared at my plate and said "I don't eat my friends."
https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1468510857420226561
She didn't say "hahahahaha thousands of dead people let them rot"
She's actually fairly innocent in all this. But she had to go, and it is good that she did (for her own sanity, as well)
On your final point, I was never stupid enough to run for elected office or work for any elected official, my inappropriate humour is fine, although it has occasionally triggered the odd PBer.
NHS Hospitals - more official than the card but not linked to the matrix
She wasn’t taking the piss out of people being locked down v Downing Street denizens having a jolly.
She was clearly, like most normal people, laughing at the ridiculousness of the situation of potentially answering questions she couldn’t really answer as firstly she wasn’t there and secondly she most likely had been briefed what she had to say. It’s almost as if her comments were the living reality of this emoji 🤷🏻♀️
And since when did everyone have to be so fucking serious - bad shit happens and people laugh and joke about things to get through - gallows humour, tommies joking as they are being bombed by the Germans, my friends who are doctors in A&E who have ripped the piss out of the situation as - well it’s not going to make things better than being a puritan wanker or worse constantly pretending to be so miserable.
I quite happily admit that I’ve constantly used humour in my personal and professional situation over the last two years, including around the long lead up and aftermath of my father’s death last year so I cannot support this ridiculous po-faced bollocks about someone laughing - they weren’t mocking people suffering - they were mocking the situation they found themselves in.
You can't say "but we had Article 50" if you don't also accept we now have Article 16.
Used to be quite difficult sometimes when vegans would ask for medicines 'with no animal products involved'!
We all use dark humour, and my God we have needed it these last 20 months. And hers wasn't even that offensive, it has just been torn out of context - very effectively
Anyway, I must work. From Home. Later
https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1468617973648691200?s=20
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59577371
Very convenient she left her work phone at home.
Either in the EU we were sovereign because we could leave and there is no compromise of sovereignty over NI because we can invoke A16; or in the EU we were not sovereign and we are not sovereign now because there is no free movement of goods between GB and NI.
You are a logical debater. Which is it; it can't be both.
How about Hahnbach to Heligoland?
How about Livorno to Livigno?
How about Cádiz to Ceuta?
How about Madrid to Melila?
She certainly isn't uniquely at fault here. Indeed, as others have said, it was the embarrassed laughter of "how do I defend the indefensible?" in any event.
He might hang around like a bad smell for a few more weeks/months but after that PMQ's I think it's all over!
If he attempts to put us into lockdown again though, I think it will be the final straw.
He's lost all moral authority to do that ever again - thank goodness!
I've never wanted and considered it so urgent for a Prime Minister to be immediately out, not even Thatcher in the height of her late '80s arrogance.
Same deal with Article 16 - and I think it should be invoked too.
The implied threat of sending a letter can be more powerful than actually doing so.
The Tory party will have played the working class like a violin.
This is not going away
The truth is... I have no idea what the truth is.
I've just watched the video: am I alone in thinking that Ms Stratton has been extremely hard done by?
Your thoughts ?
As a minister you can, in general, avoid interviews if it's not your specific area, and do a bit of the old, "I've been far too busy focussing on the needs of farmers as agriculture minister to spend a lazy morning reading the gutter press" schtick if you get hit with a curveball. Press secretaries can't really do that.
This has shot to pieces any moral authority the PM had for new restrictions. I think even if he was planning new restrictions, those now are hopefully stillborn because he knows now he can't do that.
Hope so at least.
I expect an announcement in the HOC tomorrow and a 5.00pm press conference
The only reason my sympathy is slightly limited is because she was the PM's press secretary, so a) she could probably have known better than to make jokes like that while the camera was rolling, and b) this eventuality would always have been priced into her salary.
https://twitter.com/LizzyBuchan/status/1468624973128695810
We have put our sovereignty into abeyance until we invoke the Article. Its still there, like a break glass, but until we want to do so we're simply not exercising it.
So if you want to exercise your sovereignty you can invoke the Article. If you don't and are OK with abeyance, then no need to do so.