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Voodoo polling v proper polling (festive edition) – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    Sky cuts out as Verstappen tries to explain that crash.

    Sign they are supportive of him?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    But he could yet drive into Verstappen next time, wipe him out - and end the season a hero.....
    No love lost between him and Hamilton recently. Not likely he will do that.
  • Feck...

    Dr Anna Albecka-Moreau MicrobeEarth globe europe-africaHoneybeeFlag of European Union
    @AnnaAlbecka I guess Omicron is not going anywhere with already >5% of sequences in Belgium and Netherlands #Omicron

    https://twitter.com/AnnaAlbecka/status/1467573788900564996
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    Lots of booing of both Verstappen and Hamilton. I don't think either have exactly enhanced their reputations this season.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,477
    ydoethur said:

    Sky cuts out as Verstappen tries to explain that crash.

    Sign they are supportive of him?

    There are lies even they hesitate to broadcast ?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,913
    edited December 2021

    Feck...

    Dr Anna Albecka-Moreau MicrobeEarth globe europe-africaHoneybeeFlag of European Union
    @AnnaAlbecka I guess Omicron is not going anywhere with already >5% of sequences in Belgium and Netherlands #Omicron

    https://twitter.com/AnnaAlbecka/status/1467573788900564996

    Are they sequencing randomly, or just PCR positives with S-gene deletions?

    Might be easier to skew their numbers given they aren't doing anywhere near as many as we are.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    edited December 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Wasn't that in the context of intriguing against Neville Chamberlain's attempt to rebrand the Conservative party as the National party?
    I don’t know 🤷‍♀️

    What he is saying seems very black and white, but I learned today Nationalism used in politics is rather more nuanced than I ever realised.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    Nigelb said:

    There are lies even they hesitate to broadcast ?
    Well, we know that's not true. They actually broadcast Cummings' press conference.
  • Lockdown incoming, we have lost control of the virus yet again
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Is anyone else starting to feel optimistic about omicron? Could this be the beginning of the end of the pandemic?
  • ydoethur said:

    Lots of booing of both Verstappen and Hamilton. I don't think either have exactly enhanced their reputations this season.

    Lewis was a bit rude about Saudi Arabia.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59511709
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336

    Lockdown incoming, we have lost control of the virus yet again

    There is no control, it's endemic.
  • BTW there's an absolute humdinger of a Cyclefree piece coming up overnight.
  • Lockdown incoming, we have lost control of the virus yet again

    Well, that's some juxtaposition on PB. You post and then @FrankBooth says we are near the end.

  • Lockdown incoming, we have lost control of the virus yet again

    Donnez moi un break.
  • Are they sequencing randomly, or just PCR positives with S-gene deletions?

    Might be easier to skew their numbers given they aren't doing anywhere near as many as we are.
    A v good question.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Verstappen brake check was as he was scared lewis would overtake after the DRS detect.

    The entire incident stemmed from his utterly brain-dead idea that he could fake give the place and take it straight back 200m later like he did a few laps later and got the inevitable (small) penalty.

    No way action will be taken as the FIA want the big final shoot out, but that was a disgraceful display from start to finish, worthy of a DSQ or major penalty.

  • Dr Anna Albecka-Moreau MicrobeEarth globe europe-africaHoneybeeFlag of European Union
    @AnnaAlbecka
    ·
    12m
    Don’t know about that. Could be a result of targeted sequencing I guess.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336

    Well, that's some juxtaposition on PB. You post and then @FrankBooth says we are near the end.

    As ever on PB, just append "I want" or "I would like" to each post.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    I don’t know 🤷‍♀️

    What he is saying seems very black and white, but I learned today Nationalism used in politics is rather more nuanced than I ever realised.
    Neville Chamberlain led the National Government (and refused ever to be called 'Conservative' which he described as an 'odious name') and which included the National Liberals and the National Labour Party as well as non-party MPs elected to support the National government e.g. Sir John Anderson. He wanted to unite them all in one party under that name. Never quite happened although had he been able to lead them into an election in 1939 or 1940 it might have been.

    Churchill of course was not opposed to all nationalism. He was for example, quite happy with Mussolini's version or with the Showa version in Japan until they attacked the British Empire.

    That's why I was asking whether that was the context.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128
    rcs1000 said:

    The John Campbell video is well worth watching. What's really key is that the numbers in hospital with Covid in Guateng is vastly inflated. Simply 76% of those counted in that number were in hospital for other things.

    Possibly. Or possibly it is ripping through the wards in hospital acquired infections, which could be a major problem...
  • Me casting an eye over the F1 watchers.




  • Pouria Hadjibagheri
    @Pouriaaa Replying to @thomasforth
    @bothness and @statsgeekclare
    Might surprise you to know that the dashboard was created because a handful of people gave up their daily life and worked 18-hour days to make it happen. No one asked us. We thought it was needed, so we created it. Then people started to take credit for it.


    Pouria Hadjibagheri @Pouriaaa Replying to @Pouriaaa

    @thomasforth and 2 others

    We used to scavenge data off DA Govt tweets & put them in the a consolidated format for the dashboard. The dashboard team made something from that which is unique in the world. We now process 800,000,000+ rows to publish 54+ million figures each and every day. That's what we did.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,477
    Horner auditioning to be a Tory spokesperson.
    “Great effort Max, I have no idea why he [Hamilton] went into the back of you."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,355
    edited December 2021
    Foxy said:

    Possibly. Or possibly it is ripping through the wards in hospital acquired infections, which could be a major problem...
    I am a bit careful with his videos these days, he definitely pushes certain pet "takes" e.g ivermectin. His initial take on Omicron is it looks less serious, which is a good thing and has been basing a lot of his vdeos off that...when it is still far from clear this is the case.

    He is less follow the science and more look for the science that reinforces certain beliefs.
  • ydoethur said:

    I am not Lewis Hamilton's greatest fan but it's not fair to say that was rude. It was merely truthful.

    In fact, compared to what could be said about Saudi it was positively diplomatic.
    Not diplomatic enough to get a Tory lordship tho'.
  • ydoethur said:

    What does it accuse Max Verstappen of?
    Being less truthful than Boris Johnson and Dom Cummings.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Max summonded to stewards. Zero chance they will take serious action, this is WWE on wheels and they have the final race they want.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    Being less truthful than Boris Johnson and Dom Cummings.
    Well, that's not possible.

    Even Goebbels was slightly more honest than Dominic Cummings (although he was a far worse human being in other ways, a thief, a murderer, a mass murderer and a serial rapist).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,115
    One thing for sure is that Verstappen is pushing Hamilton to limits even he has never reached before. His utter determination in the last few races has been incredible.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,102
    DavidL said:

    One thing for sure is that Verstappen is pushing Hamilton to limits even he has never reached before. His utter determination in the last few races has been incredible.

    It’ll be for nothing when Max smashes into Lewis in turn 1 and wins the title
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,913


    Dr Anna Albecka-Moreau MicrobeEarth globe europe-africaHoneybeeFlag of European Union
    @AnnaAlbecka
    ·
    12m
    Don’t know about that. Could be a result of targeted sequencing I guess.

    Ah, right. Quite likely. Thanks.

    Although I suppose we are close to or over 1% already given the official reports.

    If it does get to 5% then it will probably go all the way to 100%.

    Lets hope it really is mild...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,243
    Foxy said:

    Possibly. Or possibly it is ripping through the wards in hospital acquired infections, which could be a major problem...
    Sorry, this was 'admitted to hospital with Covid'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    DavidL said:

    One thing for sure is that Verstappen is pushing Hamilton to limits even he has never reached before. His utter determination in the last few races has been incredible.

    Well, he caught up with him in that race, albeit not solely in the way he wanted to.
  • That was some stupid shit. The "brake test" was moronic but wasn't quite as black and white as suggested. Loved the Mercedes / Masi call where they protested about knowing nothing about it and Masi points out he told the guy personally.

    But - and its a big but. Don't start moving around when you're handing the place over. Verstappen is going to get his arse kicked. Can we also talk about the repeated "racecraft" incidents including both Hamilton and Arse on the go slow?

    Hamilton will win the title and deservedly so. But can we please avoid this shitbox race next year?
  • Ah, right. Quite likely. Thanks.

    Although I suppose we are close to or over 1% already given the official reports.

    If it does get to 5% then it will probably go all the way to 100%.

    Lets hope it really is mild...
    What's interesting and will be crucial imho, is that, as I understand things, Omi is fighting mainly beta in SA, whereas we are fighting delta.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,582

    Lockdown incoming, we have lost control of the virus yet again

    No we haven’t. We still don’t know how serious omicron will be. If most cases are mild, there will be no issue. We anxiously wait on hard data, and must make do with anecdotes in the interim. Some good news today from SA. All is not lost.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    It’ll be for nothing when Max smashes into Lewis in turn 1 and wins the title
    Best hope now is the utter shamelessness of Max's last month makes the FIA wise up and envoke the Jerez rule when that happens.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,582

    What's interesting and will be crucial imho, is that, as I understand things, Omi is fighting mainly beta in SA, whereas we are fighting delta.

    That’s not correct. Their last wave was delta.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    That was some stupid shit. The "brake test" was moronic but wasn't quite as black and white as suggested. Loved the Mercedes / Masi call where they protested about knowing nothing about it and Masi points out he told the guy personally.

    But - and its a big but. Don't start moving around when you're handing the place over. Verstappen is going to get his arse kicked. Can we also talk about the repeated "racecraft" incidents including both Hamilton and Arse on the go slow?

    Hamilton will win the title and deservedly so. But can we please avoid this shitbox race next year?

    Max slammed the brakes on as he wanted Lewis to overtake before DRS detection point so he could re-overtake 2 seconds later. It shows what a lunatic he is he thought that would be an outcome which wouldn't generate a penalty.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    If Omicron really does spread like wildfire and it must have been around in largely unvaccinated South Africa for several weeks, wouldn't we be expecting an Italy style situation by now if if was really dangerous?
  • There are so many different factors with SA, younger population and many had covid before, but 20-30% are HIV+ and very low vaccinations rates.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited December 2021

    Me casting an eye over the F1 watchers.



    Lovely to see them frothing at the mouth. They’ve still got a bit of spunk in em.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    If Omicron really does spread like wildfire and it must have been around in largely unvaccinated South Africa for several weeks, wouldn't we be expecting an Italy style situation by now if if was really dangerous?

    Well, fingers crossed we have the magic situation that it's very transmissible, doesn't re-infect much and doesn't make people that ill - i.e. it's a perfect vaccine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    maaarsh said:

    Max slammed the brakes on as he wanted Lewis to overtake before DRS detection point so he could re-overtake 2 seconds later. It shows what a lunatic he is he thought that would be an outcome which wouldn't generate a penalty.
    It hasn't yet. That wasn't what he got the penalty for.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,279
    maaarsh said:

    Max slammed the brakes on as he wanted Lewis to overtake before DRS detection point so he could re-overtake 2 seconds later. It shows what a lunatic he is he thought that would be an outcome which wouldn't generate a penalty.
    It'll come down to the data. If he did brake in an unusual position, it'll be as clear as day - and quite hard to explain away / excuse.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    It'll come down to the data. If he did brake in an unusual position, it'll be as clear as day - and quite hard to explain away / excuse.
    The data was clear in Brasil and no action was ever going to be taken. Zero chance of meaningful further action with them already level on points.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492


    Pouria Hadjibagheri
    @Pouriaaa Replying to @thomasforth
    @bothness and @statsgeekclare
    Might surprise you to know that the dashboard was created because a handful of people gave up their daily life and worked 18-hour days to make it happen. No one asked us. We thought it was needed, so we created it. Then people started to take credit for it.


    Pouria Hadjibagheri @Pouriaaa Replying to @Pouriaaa

    @thomasforth and 2 others

    We used to scavenge data off DA Govt tweets & put them in the a consolidated format for the dashboard. The dashboard team made something from that which is unique in the world. We now process 800,000,000+ rows to publish 54+ million figures each and every day. That's what we did.

    Which dash board are they talking about? the Woldmeater one?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Davidson the only one on Sky with a brain who can work out why the incident happened. Di Resta as usual just busy bigging up Max.
  • F1 is boring, just cars whizzing around in a circle. Also causes pollution, because the vehicles aren't electric.

    So there!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,773
    For the second day in a row, a data oddity: most councils in Yorkshire (but not all) and some elsewhere (e.g. Allerdale) with very, very low figures for cases by date of test specifically for the day before yesterday. Odd.
    Also, cases data very much failing to spiral out of control - numbers looking much like they tend to about five days before the trend changes. Not saying it'll happen this time but it's often happened from patterns like this before.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    F1 is boring, just cars whizzing around in a circle. Also causes pollution, because the vehicles aren't electric.

    So there!

    Electric vehicles cause plenty of pollution. Just not in the air immediately around them.

    They are a classic example of the deep ecology/shallow ecology dilemma.
  • ydoethur said:

    Electric vehicles cause plenty of pollution. Just not in the air immediately around them.

    They are a classic example of the deep ecology/shallow ecology dilemma.
    And your response to the ennui of F1?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    And your response to the ennui of F1?
    Tell Bottas that Hamilton and Verstappen have both made rude remarks about his mum?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Cookie said:

    For the second day in a row, a data oddity: most councils in Yorkshire (but not all) and some elsewhere (e.g. Allerdale) with very, very low figures for cases by date of test specifically for the day before yesterday. Odd.
    Also, cases data very much failing to spiral out of control - numbers looking much like they tend to about five days before the trend changes. Not saying it'll happen this time but it's often happened from patterns like this before.

    http://sonorouschocolate.com/covid19/extdata/logcasesbyage.png

    Specimen date data suggests the mini wave post last weekends press conference has peaked - too early to say if it was real or a result of extra testing driven from the big increase in covid salience.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,086
    BigRich said:

    Which dash board are they talking about? the Woldmeater one?
    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    and the open data api they make available

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/developers-guide/main-api
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,477

    F1 is boring, just cars whizzing around in a circle. Also causes pollution, because the vehicles aren't electric.

    So there!

    It’s not as though they are on rails, Sunil.
  • Christian Horner should be stripped of British citizenship and charged with treason.
  • And your response to the ennui of F1?
    Ennui? Used to play for Arsenal, didn't he?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    F1 is boring, just cars whizzing around in a circle. Also causes pollution, because the vehicles aren't electric.

    So there!

    This would be so much better. Electric.

    https://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/lgb-christmas-passenger-model-railway-set/?exchange_rate=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvsaI-b_N9AIVRe7tCh2VCAcyEAQYASABEgIqmvD_BwE
  • .

    It’ll be for nothing when Max smashes into Lewis in turn 1 and wins the title
    The Schumacher technique.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    Christian Horner should be stripped of British citizenship and charged with treason.

    Bad idea. The Austrians and Dutch would offer him joint life citizenship and the Austrians would make him President.
  • Nigelb said:

    It’s not as though they are on rails, Sunil.
    Just to be even-handed - steam engines also cause pollution!
  • Christian Horner should be stripped of British citizenship and charged with treason.

    I can reassure nervous PBers comparing your posts with MaxPB's polemic that I am not Christian Horner
  • F1 fans are irresponsible folk who don't care about the environment.

    :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    Just to be even-handed - steam engines also cause pollution!
    A bit of a coaled response.
  • ydoethur said:

    Bad idea. The Austrians and Dutch would offer him joint life citizenship and the Austrians would make him President.
    Fine.
  • F1 is boring, just cars whizzing around in a circle. Also causes pollution, because the vehicles aren't electric.

    So there!

    Not much whizzing around today.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    Brecel clings on with his fingertips.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    If Omicron really does spread like wildfire and it must have been around in largely unvaccinated South Africa for several weeks, wouldn't we be expecting an Italy style situation by now if if was really dangerous?

    Also appears to have a shorter incubation period. I think if it was as serious as Delta, we'd have known about it by now. So far, it's looking like it's highly transmissible, but much milder than other variants. We do, of course, need more data, but so far the signs seem quite encouraging to me.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592

    .

    The Schumacher technique.
    Max makes Schumacher look like a choir boy. Filthy driving standards.
  • maaarsh said:

    Max slammed the brakes on as he wanted Lewis to overtake before DRS detection point so he could re-overtake 2 seconds later. It shows what a lunatic he is he thought that would be an outcome which wouldn't generate a penalty.
    What rule does that break? If it doesn't break any, that seems like clever tactics.

    Leaving the track and cutting the corner seemed a bigger issue to me.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    edited December 2021

    What rule does that break? If it doesn't break any, that seems like clever tactics.

    Leaving the track and cutting the corner seemed a bigger issue to me.
    It doesn't break a rule - but it also doesn't give the place back - which is also not in the rules, so then stewards then take it in to their own hands and give a penalty to him as he didn't properly give the place back. So it's not clever, it just invites the stewards to act whilst noting you hold the rules they're enforcing in contempt.

    But agreed, it will ultimately be a smokescreen for the fact that twice once again Max got overtaken cleanly so decided to straight line across a corner and force Hamilton to yield or be crashed out. As long as that is allowed, no real racing is possible. It's the opposite of let them race.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067
    ydoethur said:

    Neville Chamberlain led the National Government (and refused ever to be called 'Conservative' which he described as an 'odious name') and which included the National Liberals and the National Labour Party as well as non-party MPs elected to support the National government e.g. Sir John Anderson. He wanted to unite them all in one party under that name. Never quite happened although had he been able to lead them into an election in 1939 or 1940 it might have been.

    Churchill of course was not opposed to all nationalism. He was for example, quite happy with Mussolini's version or with the Showa version in Japan until they attacked the British Empire.

    That's why I was asking whether that was the context.
    “ Churchill of course was not opposed to all nationalism. “

    So Churchill only opposed to some use of Nationalism? Can you say which are those, when it’s fair and good and not good? I still feel a disconnect between me and the whole of PB. I’ll have a go at answering my own question.

    When Gordon Brown wrapped himself in Union Jack at Party conference with British Jobs for British Workers, I still feel that was 100% wrong. Apart from the fact it stopped the weird milliband brother becoming Prime Minister. All because he hard questions to answer, but instead of asking him for those answers his conference lapped it up as he said it.

    I didn’t mean to imply Gordon Brown and Nicola sturgeons are Nazi as I never believed that and how you all painted me. But, and you have put doubts in my mind, and it may be idiot to still think like this, if politicians want supporters lapping it up and not scrutinising, I always felt they are using some techniques of Adolf Hitlers playbook without actually being full Nazi, if that makes sense. Avoiding scrutiny by placing a flag between him and the questions.

    I don’t think Nationalism is always used so fair and proper as you and certainly Richards post, and everyone else here believe. I may be on my own, but I still feel a gulf between us.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348

    “ Churchill of course was not opposed to all nationalism. “

    So Churchill only opposed to some use of Nationalism? Can you say which are those, when it’s fair and good and not good?
    I did!
  • EU and NATO states swing behind US belief that Russia is preparing to invade Ukraine after unprecedented level of intelligence-sharing, as allies back Biden’s demand for tough deterrence package ahead of Putin call https://ft.com/content/b287f2e3-3b8b-4095-b704-c255a943c84c @FinancialTimes

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1467592759632543744?s=20
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Lewis in interview just said Max is the dirtiest driver he's ever faced and thinks the rules don't apply to him. Surprisingly honest.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067

    Christian Horner should be stripped of British citizenship and charged with treason.

    Or forced to marry Ginger Spice.
  • Sir Lewis also summoned to the stewards over the same incident as the Dutch shunt.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    If Hamilton does win the title - especially given the way he's fought back - I think it opens up SPOTY again. Astonishing and unprecedented though her US open win was, the Rad has not subsequently pulled up many trees.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,477

    What rule does that break? If it doesn't break any, that seems like clever tactics.

    Leaving the track and cutting the corner seemed a bigger issue to me.
    He was weaving unpredictably across the track and then braked sharply.
    There is absolutely no reason for Hamilton to run into him (risking a DNF which would have ended his championship challenge) other than being taken by surprise. You don’t brake test someone when you’ve been instructed to let them past,
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,102

    EU and NATO states swing behind US belief that Russia is preparing to invade Ukraine after unprecedented level of intelligence-sharing, as allies back Biden’s demand for tough deterrence package ahead of Putin call https://ft.com/content/b287f2e3-3b8b-4095-b704-c255a943c84c @FinancialTimes

    https://twitter.com/HenryJFoy/status/1467592759632543744?s=20

    Realistically NATO boots on the ground is the only thing that will really stop the Russians.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    maaarsh said:

    Lewis in interview just said Max is the dirtiest driver he's ever faced and thinks the rules don't apply to him. Surprisingly honest.

    Well, yes, it would be if you meant what you've written. But I am assuming you've just been a mite careless and you actually meant:

    'Max is the dirtiest driver he's ever faced, somebody who thinks the rules don't apply to him.'
  • F1 is boring, just cars whizzing around in a circle. Also causes pollution, because the vehicles aren't electric.

    So there!

    Actually F1 has quite possibly been very good for the environment, not negative for it.

    A lot of technological and efficiency advances have been developed for F1 vehicles that have then reached general vehicles as a result. Since there's only a few F1 vehicles but there's billions of general vehicles, improving efficiency in general vehicles more than makes up for any fuel consumed in F1.
  • Realistically NATO boots on the ground is the only thing that will really stop the Russians.
    I fear so. Threats of "sanctions" won't cut it.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited December 2021

    Realistically NATO boots on the ground is the only thing that will really stop the Russians.
    On Saturday the US made what it described as the largest transfer ever of military equipment in one day, to the Greek port of Alexandroupoli, with a view to the Black Sea. It's simltaneously a hedge against Erdogan trying to bring things through the Bosphorous without US permission, which naturally infuriates him.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,801

    Realistically NATO boots on the ground is the only thing that will really stop the Russians.
    And then the question becomes whether the UK or US want to expend blood and treasure defending Ukraine for the EU and receive little to nothing on return except more insults.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,336

    On Saturday the US made what it described as the largest transfer ever of military equipment in one day, to the Greek port of Alexandroupoli, with a view to the Black Sea.
    Bigger than D-Day?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,086

    “ Churchill of course was not opposed to all nationalism. “

    So Churchill only opposed to some use of Nationalism? Can you say which are those, when it’s fair and good and not good? I still feel a disconnect between me and the whole of PB. I’ll have a go at answering my own question.

    When Gordon Brown wrapped himself in Union Jack at Party conference with British Jobs for British Workers, I still feel that was 100% wrong. Apart from the fact it stopped the weird milliband brother becoming Prime Minister. All because he hard questions to answer, but instead of asking him for those answers his conference lapped it up as he said it.

    I didn’t mean to imply Gordon Brown and Nicola sturgeons are Nazi as I never believed that and how you all painted me. But, and you have put doubts in my mind, and it may be idiot to still think like this, if politicians want supporters lapping it up and not scrutinising, I always felt they are using some techniques of Adolf Hitlers playbook without actually being full Nazi, if that makes sense. Avoiding scrutiny by placing a flag between him and the questions.

    I don’t think Nationalism is always used so fair and proper as you and certainly Richards post, and everyone else here believe. I may be on my own, but I still feel a gulf between us.
    Have you read...

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

    Still one of the best summations of the topic of nationalism that has been written, in my opinion.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    RobD said:

    Bigger than D-Day?
    If it's bigger than Okinawa it must be going some.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Just to hark the herald angels back a little to what we were discussing earlier re parties -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2021/dec/05/ben-jennings-on-boris-johnson-and-the-no-10-christmas-party-cartoon
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited December 2021

    Instead of which, nearly all of the press seems to have missed the drugs-in-Boris Johnson's office-toilets, and Lindsey Hoyle calling in the police story today. Most odd.
    I

    No we haven’t. We still don’t know how serious omicron will be. If most cases are mild, there will be no issue. We anxiously wait on hard data, and must make do with anecdotes in the interim. Some good news today from SA. All is not lost.
    Yes. Given the fact that most SA medics say this is a mild(er) variant, some early analysis suggest it’s a mild(er) variant and most patients are presenting with mild(er) symptoms, is there not a whiff of a chance that it is, er, a milder variant?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266
    So the reigning champion delivered a masterclass performance to defeat the reckless challenger again today.

    But enough about the chess, what happened in the motor car racing thingy?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,067

    Have you read...

    https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/notes-on-nationalism/

    Still one of the best summations of the topic of nationalism that has been written, in my opinion.
    Thank you. 👍🏻 Going off to read it now with paper and pencil whilst it’s bouncing in my mind.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,348
    edited December 2021
    Brecel now in deeper trouble than Horner if he dines at a restaurant owned by TSE.

    (Edit - I know TSE isn't a restauranter, I'm just imagining scenarios where TSE gets his revenge by buying Horner's favourite restaurant and ordering all pizza be served with pineapple and arsenic.)
  • If Hamilton does win the title - especially given the way he's fought back - I think it opens up SPOTY again. Astonishing and unprecedented though her US open win was, the Rad has not subsequently pulled up many trees.

    In tennis, the only things which count are the Slams (and arguably the Olympics and Davis/BJK Cups). She hasn't played in any of those since the US Open win.
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