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Voodoo polling v proper polling (festive edition) – politicalbetting.com

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  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    F1 outright winning driver;

    Verstappen 1.66
    Hamilton 2.42
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472
    Farooq said:

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I'm not too tight to pay for Sky. But I am too tight to pay for a TV license.
    I know others differ, but I get a massive amount from my TV licence. Heck, I probably listen to three or four hours of BBC podcast content a week alone.

    (Yes, I know I don't need a TV licence for that - but it's all paid for by it.)

    In entertainment terms, it's blooming great value for me. Although, as I've said passim, the BBC's funding model is utterly borken in the long term.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    eek said:

    Schumacher costs another British driver an F1 title?

    Is this a 1 or 2 stop race? I don't remember seeing the suggested strategy
    1.5 stop race.

    The safety car is going to help Mercedes, I think.

    I fear the tyres might not last if there's no more safety car incidents.
    They can probably drive to the end from here on the hards.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,270

    eek said:

    stodge said:


    TfL has been in financial trouble for years; Covid has just brought all the troubles home to roost. However: Khan's fare freeze was a stupid electoral bung, as many people said at the time, and worsened a bad problem.

    Try to excuse Sadiq as much as you like: the fare freeze was a cast-iron sign that he was uninterested in the finances of TfL - as he thought the government would have to bail them out.

    Incidentally, the whole situation was made worse by TfL's greed in trying to hoover up as much transport in and around the capital as they could get: e.g. the creation of London Overground.

    The issue pre-Covid was the network, hampered in some places by antiquated track and signalling, was running at capacity. Trains were full and there simply wasn't the capacity to run more trains over some parts of the system because the signalling couldn't handle it.

    Many cities have co-ordinated passenger transport systems - bringing some of the rail lines into TfL was generally and genuinely welcomed at the time.

    The problem now is a third of the passengers have gone - the Government insisted in 2020 as a condition of bail out all services were maintained so you had empty tubes going up and down the lines. TfL have begun to reduce capacity discretely by not replacing drivers who leave - fewer drivers means more gaps in the service whether they are called "cancellations" or not.

    If Sunak wants to look "tough" and reduce the subsidy, the options will either be a big Council Tax rise (which any future Conservative Mayor will have to retain) or a reduction in services (up to 10% of buses could be axed) or the complete mothballing of one or more lines (the Bakerloo, for a number of reasons, is the obvious target but even then maintenance will have to continue so it's not a complete saving).
    So you're saying the problem pre-Covid was outdated infrastructure. If that was the case, the answer was simple: invest in the infrastructure - i.e. spend - rather than have a massive electoral bung in the form of a fare freeze, and make matters worse.
    TfL have been improving infrastructure - the issue is those projects take years and cost money. I think the improvements to the Metropolitan line took 15 years from start to finish.
    Stodge opined that the network was hampered in some places by antiquated track and signalling. It needed investment. Yes, they have been improving it - although not as much as they could - and they could have done more on that issue if it had not been for the stupid electoral bribe of a fare freeze.
    I would head to London Reconnections - from memory the timescales for projects are such that it's only now (in 2021) that projects are being delayed because of the reduced revenue from the fare freeze.
  • It seems to me that Mercedes were under no obligation to pit when they did, were they? And the knew a red flag was a risk.

    It seems they took a gamble and it backfired. Oops.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    Andy_JS said:

    I've never seen DIe Hard, but shouldn't it be obvious whether or not it's a Christmas film from the presence or otherwise of things like Christmas trees and Santa Claus?

    The key thing is first to define what is a Christmas movie. Without that, everything else is just opinion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited December 2021
    F1....vrooom vrooom...ehhh hmmmm ohhhh ehhhhh....now has anybody been to Peppa Pig World....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,270
    edited December 2021
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Schumacher costs another British driver an F1 title?

    Is this a 1 or 2 stop race? I don't remember seeing the suggested strategy
    1.5 stop race.

    The safety car is going to help Mercedes, I think.

    I fear the tyres might not last if there's no more safety car incidents.
    They can probably drive to the end from here on the hards.
    As could Max, but Max is now ahead of Lewis.

    To be honest though the obvious play was to do the opposite of whatever the car in front did. You can see why Lewis pitted because previous crashes didn't result in barrier damage red flagging the race.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    Well Max is going lower than Nico in my world champions ranking after this shameless gift.
  • Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    But you do not know the circumstances of this party and yet shout guilty

    Innocent until proved guilty used to be the law in this land, seems some have reversed it

    They had a party, at a time when No 10 - those people - had forbidden the world to have parties. Can you not see that pleading legal technicalities only makes it worse?
    Surprisingly poor show from Big G. Genuinely taken aback.
  • moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    Yup that’s about the size of it. At the time this lot were toasting the dodgy procurement contracts they’d arranged for their mates, some of us were in a very dark place indeed due to the enforced absence of human contact. Not to go all Keegan on you but I’d love it love it if some of them saw the inside of a cell.

    For following the rules?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587

    It seems to me that Mercedes were under no obligation to pit when they did, were they? And the knew a red flag was a risk.

    It seems they took a gamble and it backfired. Oops.

    Pitting Lewis was obvious. Pitting Valteri was stupid given the bigger picture. Speed of restart does not removely justify a red flag and taints this season even more.

    Frankly Lewis needs to be P1 or make sure they both crash on the first corner of restart, otherwise game over.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,702
    The barrier had about six separate layers to it.

    Even if the top layer is damaged, does that really matter that much?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472
    eek said:

    eek said:

    stodge said:


    TfL has been in financial trouble for years; Covid has just brought all the troubles home to roost. However: Khan's fare freeze was a stupid electoral bung, as many people said at the time, and worsened a bad problem.

    Try to excuse Sadiq as much as you like: the fare freeze was a cast-iron sign that he was uninterested in the finances of TfL - as he thought the government would have to bail them out.

    Incidentally, the whole situation was made worse by TfL's greed in trying to hoover up as much transport in and around the capital as they could get: e.g. the creation of London Overground.

    The issue pre-Covid was the network, hampered in some places by antiquated track and signalling, was running at capacity. Trains were full and there simply wasn't the capacity to run more trains over some parts of the system because the signalling couldn't handle it.

    Many cities have co-ordinated passenger transport systems - bringing some of the rail lines into TfL was generally and genuinely welcomed at the time.

    The problem now is a third of the passengers have gone - the Government insisted in 2020 as a condition of bail out all services were maintained so you had empty tubes going up and down the lines. TfL have begun to reduce capacity discretely by not replacing drivers who leave - fewer drivers means more gaps in the service whether they are called "cancellations" or not.

    If Sunak wants to look "tough" and reduce the subsidy, the options will either be a big Council Tax rise (which any future Conservative Mayor will have to retain) or a reduction in services (up to 10% of buses could be axed) or the complete mothballing of one or more lines (the Bakerloo, for a number of reasons, is the obvious target but even then maintenance will have to continue so it's not a complete saving).
    So you're saying the problem pre-Covid was outdated infrastructure. If that was the case, the answer was simple: invest in the infrastructure - i.e. spend - rather than have a massive electoral bung in the form of a fare freeze, and make matters worse.
    TfL have been improving infrastructure - the issue is those projects take years and cost money. I think the improvements to the Metropolitan line took 15 years from start to finish.
    Stodge opined that the network was hampered in some places by antiquated track and signalling. It needed investment. Yes, they have been improving it - although not as much as they could - and they could have done more on that issue if it had not been for the stupid electoral bribe of a fare freeze.
    I would head to London Reconnections - from memory the timescales for projects are such that it's only now (in 2021) that projects are being delayed because of the reduced revenue from the fare freeze.
    As with the main rail network, there are three main forms of infrastructure investment:
    *) Maintenance. This is the day-to-day maintenance work, the bread-and-butter work.
    *) Renewals. This means renewing life-expired infrastructure.
    *) Enhancements. This is work that adds new capabilities; e.g. a new signalling system, or a new line.

    Maintenance and renewals can be planned and implemented fairly quickly. Enhancements are the things that can take significant time.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Farooq said:

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I'm not too tight to pay for Sky. But I am too tight to pay for a TV license.
    I know others differ, but I get a massive amount from my TV licence. Heck, I probably listen to three or four hours of BBC podcast content a week alone.

    (Yes, I know I don't need a TV licence for that - but it's all paid for by it.)

    In entertainment terms, it's blooming great value for me. Although, as I've said passim, the BBC's funding model is utterly borken in the long term.
    And I get a massive amount from *your* TV licence too, because I don't watch telly but get my news and weather from bbc online plus hours a day of radio.

    thanks!
  • Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    But you do not know the circumstances of this party and yet shout guilty

    Innocent until proved guilty used to be the law in this land, seems some have reversed it

    They had a party, at a time when No 10 - those people - had forbidden the world to have parties. Can you not see that pleading legal technicalities only makes it worse?
    If you're blaming them for finding out the details of the rules and acting within them when you couldn't be bothered to find out the details of the rules, aren't you really just angry at yourself and you're projecting it onto them?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I never understand this argument. If you are a big F1 fan, it’s only about £30 a month to subscribe to Sky. That’s like five pints a month for all the sport. I’m not on commission but it seems to me to be a trifling sum so you can actually watch the races/matches.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472
    IshmaelZ said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I'm not too tight to pay for Sky. But I am too tight to pay for a TV license.
    I know others differ, but I get a massive amount from my TV licence. Heck, I probably listen to three or four hours of BBC podcast content a week alone.

    (Yes, I know I don't need a TV licence for that - but it's all paid for by it.)

    In entertainment terms, it's blooming great value for me. Although, as I've said passim, the BBC's funding model is utterly borken in the long term.
    And I get a massive amount from *your* TV licence too, because I don't watch telly but get my news and weather from bbc online plus hours a day of radio.

    thanks!
    Fair enough. Though thankfully a lot of people are willing to pay for quality content.

    (Albeit not for the competence to actually play F1 on their F1 page...) ;)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    MikeL said:

    The barrier had about six separate layers to it.

    Even if the top layer is damaged, does that really matter that much?

    They'll have to throw a red flag every time someone crashes there in the future. :lol:
  • Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've never seen DIe Hard, but shouldn't it be obvious whether or not it's a Christmas film from the presence or otherwise of things like Christmas trees and Santa Claus?

    However it was released in July as a Summer Blockbuster.

    The Christmas party is there to give the story plausibility...
    Although it’s a massive stretch because the party is staged on … Christmas Eve. What company stages its works party on 24 December FFS? A massive plot hole in what is an otherwise superb (Christmas) film.
    In America only Christmas Day is a holiday, so a party Christmas Eve plausible.

    Not that plausibility is required in Christmas productions. Scrooge bought his turkey for the Cratchitts on Christmas Day itself
    Good effort (hence the like) but I can assure you that even in America, companies very rarely (if ever) stage their parties on Christmas Eve!
    Christmas shopping seems to reach fever pitch around 6pm. No time to party when things needs to be bought. Shops are even busier on Boxing Day with people returning stuff during their lunch break. Strange country.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've never seen DIe Hard, but shouldn't it be obvious whether or not it's a Christmas film from the presence or otherwise of things like Christmas trees and Santa Claus?

    However it was released in July as a Summer Blockbuster.

    The Christmas party is there to give the story plausibility...
    Although it’s a massive stretch because the party is staged on … Christmas Eve. What company stages its works party on 24 December FFS? A massive plot hole in what is an otherwise superb (Christmas) film.
    In America only Christmas Day is a holiday, so a party Christmas Eve plausible.

    Not that plausibility is required in Christmas productions. Scrooge bought his turkey for the Cratchitts on Christmas Day itself
    Christmas Eve isn't a holiday here. In living memory, nor was Christmas day in Scotland
    Correct. My father got a half-day on Christmas Day. New Year was the big celebration.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    F1....vrooom vrooom...ehhh hmmmm ohhhh ehhhhh....now has anybody been to Peppa Pig World....

    We’ve done this.

    Mr Blobby World is the one: if you haven’t been, you haven’t lived.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,723

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    But you do not know the circumstances of this party and yet shout guilty

    Innocent until proved guilty used to be the law in this land, seems some have reversed it

    They had a party, at a time when No 10 - those people - had forbidden the world to have parties. Can you not see that pleading legal technicalities only makes it worse?
    If you're blaming them for finding out the details of the rules and acting within them when you couldn't be bothered to find out the details of the rules, aren't you really just angry at yourself and you're projecting it onto them?
    No, because the technicalities of the rules are in part irrelevant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    FUCK.

    RED FLAG.

    Verstappen gets a free pit stop/tire change.

    That's clearly what RB were gambling on, or the race being abandoned altogether. And it came off.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    The decision to red flag after several laps of safety car is inexplicable and will very likely cost Hamilton the title. Outrageous.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,270
    ydoethur said:

    FUCK.

    RED FLAG.

    Verstappen gets a free pit stop/tire change.

    That's clearly what RB were gambling on, or the race being abandoned altogether. And it came off.
    The sane option was to do the opposite to what Mercedes did so that's what RB did.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Andy_JS said:

    I've never seen DIe Hard, but shouldn't it be obvious whether or not it's a Christmas film from the presence or otherwise of things like Christmas trees and Santa Claus?

    The key thing is first to define what is a Christmas movie. Without that, everything else is just opinion.
    Absolutely, O Socrates. Would you say that the imperfect, ephemeral Christmas movies which we see with our corporeal eyes partake in the eternal and changeless Form of the Christmas Movie?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,270

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I never understand this argument. If you are a big F1 fan, it’s only about £30 a month to subscribe to Sky. That’s like five pints a month for all the sport. I’m not on commission but it seems to me to be a trifling sum so you can actually watch the races/matches.
    It's more than £30, you also need Sky's base package so it ends up being £50+.

    Now TV is cheaper but still not that cheap.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    That's red flag again...
  • Bob Dole was a relic of an era when almost every presidential hopeful was a four-letter word. My favourite anecdote of the time was the lady who said "in my heart I want Bush, in my bush I want Hart."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    Yup that’s about the size of it. At the time this lot were toasting the dodgy procurement contracts they’d arranged for their mates, some of us were in a very dark place indeed due to the enforced absence of human contact. Not to go all Keegan on you but I’d love it love it if some of them saw the inside of a cell.

    For following the rules?
    If they thought it within the rules to have an afterwork party with drinks, games, Secret Santa etc, don't you think it would have been polite to let the rest of us know? The fact that they kept it quiet suggests that they knew it was dodgy.

    If a guest list comes out from the leaker and folk from outside attended...
  • Just watch the stewards decide to not penalise the Dutch shunt.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    What an absolute downright cheat Max is.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    ydoethur said:

    FUCK.

    RED FLAG.

    Verstappen gets a free pit stop/tire change.

    That's clearly what RB were gambling on, or the race being abandoned altogether. And it came off.
    At Suzuka 1994, Benetton short filled Schumacher thinking that the race wouldn't go the full distance. They were wrong and Hill won.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    This circuit is less safe than a statement on safeguarding by Amanda Spielman.
  • On Topic:

    Yet another subject on which TSE is completely wrong.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Of course Max is allowed to drive other people off the track or take shortcuts. It’s all fine.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,490
    "Latest data, looking good
    Dr. John Campbell"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited December 2021
    ydoethur said:

    This circuit is less safe than a statement on safeguarding by Amanda Spielman.

    Like this...

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/11/23/12/50864063-10232303-image-a-16_1637670380186.jpg
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Mercedes are going to scream and scream until they are sick.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    DavidL said:

    Of course Max is allowed to drive other people off the track or take shortcuts. It’s all fine.

    What will happen if they penalise Hamilton for being too slow on the parade lap and Verstappen for cutting that corner? Will both sets of fans explode?
  • DavidL said:

    The decision to red flag after several laps of safety car is inexplicable and will very likely cost Hamilton the title. Outrageous.

    Boo Hoo.
  • maaarsh said:

    What an absolute downright cheat Max is.

    You've only just realised?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696
    Overtaking off the track. Watch the stewards let it slide as well. The game is rigged.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,326
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've never seen DIe Hard, but shouldn't it be obvious whether or not it's a Christmas film from the presence or otherwise of things like Christmas trees and Santa Claus?

    The key thing is first to define what is a Christmas movie. Without that, everything else is just opinion.
    Absolutely, O Socrates. Would you say that the imperfect, ephemeral Christmas movies which we see with our corporeal eyes partake in the eternal and changeless Form of the Christmas Movie?
    Why do you have an obsession with abusing me? I don’t give a shit. I just imagine you have issues.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    I do hope both of them get penalised and Ocon leads off. A much better behaved person than either and deserves a win.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696
    First Spurs match in a while today, went with my dad. Solid result too, really hoping Kane finds some form now, could go on a really good run here.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    BF F1 outright;

    Both Hamilton & Verstappen ~evens
  • Just watch the stewards decide to not penalise the Dutch shunt.

    Boo Hoo.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    Yup that’s about the size of it. At the time this lot were toasting the dodgy procurement contracts they’d arranged for their mates, some of us were in a very dark place indeed due to the enforced absence of human contact. Not to go all Keegan on you but I’d love it love it if some of them saw the inside of a cell.

    For following the rules?
    If they thought it within the rules to have an afterwork party with drinks, games, Secret Santa etc, don't you think it would have been polite to let the rest of us know? The fact that they kept it quiet suggests that they knew it was dodgy.

    If a guest list comes out from the leaker and folk from outside attended...
    Everyone else was being told to work from home. For this lot it was apparently essential to work in person. Now we know why. So they could rodger their university crushes on the board room table, have boozy tax payer funded after work parties and goodness know what else that might not be in-tangentially related to other things we may have discussed on this thread.
  • maaarsh said:

    What an absolute downright cheat Max is.

    Boo Hoo.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've never seen DIe Hard, but shouldn't it be obvious whether or not it's a Christmas film from the presence or otherwise of things like Christmas trees and Santa Claus?

    The key thing is first to define what is a Christmas movie. Without that, everything else is just opinion.
    Absolutely, O Socrates. Would you say that the imperfect, ephemeral Christmas movies which we see with our corporeal eyes partake in the eternal and changeless Form of the Christmas Movie?
    Why do you have an obsession with abusing me? I don’t give a shit. I just imagine you have issues.
    Is that abusive? I was sort of elliptically saying that your point was a good one.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    Pulpstar said:

    F2 race abandoned after another crash. Both drivers okay.

    I have bad feelings about the F1 race.

    The circuit is a joke. Monza speeds with no runoffs. Constant parade of safety cars and red flags incoming.
    RIP Sir Frank.
    Not wrong am I
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    MaxPB said:

    Overtaking off the track. Watch the stewards let it slide as well. The game is rigged.

    And dangerous re-entry. Sadly expecting the standard 5s penalty which is not worth much with Ocon now past.

    Not sure how many times Lewis has to win this race.
  • DavidL said:

    Of course Max is allowed to drive other people off the track or take shortcuts. It’s all fine.

    Tiny tears.
  • What an absurd track this one is.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Verstappen quite clearly retook the lead after going off there - watch as stewards take no action
  • More whacky racers than F1...
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Mail: Boris Johnson is today facing more pressure to explain events at Downing Street Christmas parties last year after his deputy admitted any 'formal' events would have breached Covid laws.

    Dominic Raab made the admission after Labour MPs demanded the Metropolitan Police probe two gatherings in November and December last year.

    Both are said to have seen 40 or 50 people crammed 'cheek by jowl' in an inside room, and one is reported to have included a secret Santa and festive quiz.

    Marr displayed the rule and it seems for it to be illegal it would have to be a party , not a few drinks at the end of the day in a work environment

    I doubt we will ever know
    I think we already know. There's a reason why every government spokesperson is parroting the same line and refusing to say any more.
    As a matter of interest did you watch Marr and read the definition and understand just why this may well have been legal
    Eating, drinking, and playing party games isn't ever going to come under the definition of a gathering that is primarily for business reasons, is it?

    You spent an entire year telling us all what a charlatan Boris was. Don't start defending him now.
    I am not part of a lynch mob and you have not answered the question

    What proof do you have that this was illegal and if so provide it

    Indeed neither Boris or Carrie were present

    "Secret Santa", quiz, drinks and food and not working, indeed cramming into rooms to get pished, sounds awfully like a party. Like Dilyn sounds like a dog.

    To claim it wasn't a party is about as honest as to claim Dilyn is a cat. Especially if everyone else has been forbidden to have parties.
    @Big_G_NorthWales is defending the indefensible, and he knows it. He would be apoplectic if it was Drakefords office party...
    I doing no such thing

    If it was a party it was illegal, if it was a working environment at the end of the day it is not under the definition showed by Marr
    It's one rule for them, another for us plebs. Time after time.
    But you do not know the circumstances of this party and yet shout guilty

    Innocent until proved guilty used to be the law in this land, seems some have reversed it

    They had a party, at a time when No 10 - those people - had forbidden the world to have parties. Can you not see that pleading legal technicalities only makes it worse?
    If you're blaming them for finding out the details of the rules and acting within them when you couldn't be bothered to find out the details of the rules, aren't you really just angry at yourself and you're projecting it onto them?
    No, because the technicalities of the rules are in part irrelevant.
    How so?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Stupid rules.

    They’re making it up as they go along
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    It is remarkable how something as on-paper-exciting as F1 is so monumentally boring in practice. It's a combination of a really grudge-filled croquet game, and wondering, when the orange light comes on, whether to fill up at Texaco or try to hold out till next time you do a tesco shop.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    ping said:

    Stupid rules.

    They’re making it up as they go along

    There's more cheating going on among all parties than in the average bridge drive.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    Even if Red Bull accept this 'offer' they've gained from their cheating with Ocon in the mix and more restarts.
  • Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,484
    Andy_JS said:

    "Latest data, looking good
    Dr. John Campbell"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ

    "rapid herd immunity at minimal cost in morbidity and mortality...."

    Fingers crossed.....
  • I have just switched to the race and it seems unfathomable to me as to what is going on

    Could someone enlighten me on how this effects Hamilton
  • Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,702
    Standing start restart has different rules to a formation lap!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,737

    Andy_JS said:

    "Latest data, looking good
    Dr. John Campbell"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ

    "rapid herd immunity at minimal cost in morbidity and mortality...."

    Fingers crossed.....
    Sounds pukka. Will Sir Kier still be demanding a lockdown?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    I have just switched to the race and it seems unfathomable to me as to what is going on

    Could someone enlighten me on how this effects Hamilton

    Betfair

    Verstappen 4.3
    Hamilton 1.5

    So, the market thinks it’s good for hamilton
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,696

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Dickson is best ignored. He adds nothing of value to any discussion.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    ping said:

    I have just switched to the race and it seems unfathomable to me as to what is going on

    Could someone enlighten me on how this effects Hamilton

    Betfair

    Verstappen 4.3
    Hamilton 1.5

    So, the market thinks it’s good for hamilton
    Good for finishing ahead of Verstappen in the race. Not so good for the title. He needs a win really.

    But I don't think this race will be going the distance, somehow...
  • ydoethur said:

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
    He knows as much about F1 than he knew about Scotland voting Yes in 2014.

    Clueless wonder indeed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited December 2021
    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Latest data, looking good
    Dr. John Campbell"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ

    "rapid herd immunity at minimal cost in morbidity and mortality...."

    Fingers crossed.....
    Sounds pukka. Will Sir Kier still be demanding a lockdown?
    He will do when cases has risen, and claim he has long demanded we follow the French and Germans approach.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089

    Verstappen quite clearly retook the lead after going off there - watch as stewards take no action

    He's been put behind Lewis
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    ydoethur said:

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
    He knows as much about F1 than he knew about Scotland voting Yes in 2014.

    Clueless wonder indeed.
    He's a race steward? I didn't realise...
  • Why are Red Bull negotiating with the race stewards? How can a participant be involved in negotiations as to what the rules are?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587
    Pulpstar said:

    Verstappen quite clearly retook the lead after going off there - watch as stewards take no action

    He's been put behind Lewis
    By Race Director. Technically the stewards did take no action :wink:
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
    A hint of real tetchiness from TSE there, I hope he hasn't punted his employer's reserves on Our Boy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    Why are Red Bull negotiating with the race stewards? How can a participant be involved in negotiations as to what the rules are?

    That wasn't the steward, it was the race director. The stewards weren't involved. They may be about that formation lap.
  • Expect the definitive verdict on what covid rules will apply over Christmas at the end of next week - 17th or thereabouts.

    Key data esp on vaccine efficacy vs ο still not available.

    Story @theipaper: https://t.co/Qx6IR6KOrG
  • IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
    A hint of real tetchiness from TSE there, I hope he hasn't punted his employer's reserves on Our Boy.
    I'm perfidious Albion here, my big green is on Verstappen. Make a profit on Hamilton as well.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    moonshine said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Latest data, looking good
    Dr. John Campbell"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ

    "rapid herd immunity at minimal cost in morbidity and mortality...."

    Fingers crossed.....
    Sounds pukka. Will Sir Kier still be demanding a lockdown?
    "rapid herd immunity at minimal cost in morbidity and mortality...." isn't a prediction, it's what he has posted up the chimney to Father Christmas
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,472

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I never understand this argument. If you are a big F1 fan, it’s only about £30 a month to subscribe to Sky. That’s like five pints a month for all the sport. I’m not on commission but it seems to me to be a trifling sum so you can actually watch the races/matches.
    1) I'm tight.
    2) It's £30 a month.
    3) I'd rather have five pints.
    4) I don't want to have to spend my Saturday and Sunday afternoons in front of the TV; and if I spent that much, I'd feel the need to get my moneysworth.

    We're reasonably comfortably well off - enough for me not to have to work at the moment. One of the reasons for this is that, although we have a good income, we watch what we spend. We're not too tight - we buy lots of stuff - but we are careful. And before you know, it a subscription to Sky, Netflix, Disney etc gets into real money.

    I've also sort-of grown out of love with F1. I've been watching it since it was first regularly shown on BBC 1 in the late 1970s when I was very young, and there are often better ways for me to spend Sunday afternoon. I used to organise my life so I'd be in on a Sunday afternoon; now I can listen to it if I'm out on a walk or run, or driving. And a Sky subs gets you quali and practice as well, and that's a long time. In addition, the little 'un isn't into it, and gets bored watching it (he's very enlightened).

    When I was on my coastal walk, there was an F1 race when I was on the hillside to the south of Eileen Donan castle in Scotland. I couldn't get radio reception, but I could get mobile reception, so a mate would phone me up to let me know what was happening.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
    A hint of real tetchiness from TSE there, I hope he hasn't punted his employer's reserves on Our Boy.
    I'm perfidious Albion here, my big green is on Verstappen. Make a profit on Hamilton as well.
    Is that for the championship or the race?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587

    Why are Red Bull negotiating with the race stewards? How can a participant be involved in negotiations as to what the rules are?

    Indeed, if left to the stewards that would have been a drive through penalty within 3 laps of restart, putting him to middle/back of the field, so what we just watched was another massive gift to RB from Masi.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    ydoethur said:

    Why are Red Bull negotiating with the race stewards? How can a participant be involved in negotiations as to what the rules are?

    That wasn't the steward, it was the race director. The stewards weren't involved. They may be about that formation lap.
    As Masi said, it wasn't a formation lap. I suspect Lewis Hamilton knew the rules better than Verstappen on that occasion.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another day, another example of David Cameron’s Twitter maxim.

    Why are political parties still not properly vetting their candidates’ social media histories, when they know that not-so-friendly opponents and newspapers definitely will be?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10276171/Lib-Dem-candidate-apologises-appearing-liken-Channel-migrants-Jewish-prisoners.html

    Helen Morgan, Lib Dem candidate in North Shropshire with today’s Godwin award, for writing, in the context of her son reading a book about the Holocaust:

    “He commented that the Nazis were only able to do such terrible things because they didn’t think their victims were people. He’s 11. On Twitter this morning, there are people talking about cancelling their RNLI donations because they have picked up “illegals”. The language used every day in this country – by the Government, press and people with thousands of followers on social media – it’s nothing short of chilling.”

    Then she liked a post from someone who replied:

    ‘Having visited Auschwitz concentration camp in the recent past. It really brings home man’s inhumanity to man. Now on a daily basis the language and actions of the Conservative Party make me more and more concerned about the direction they are taking the UK and its people.’

    Her own post is totally on the money. The post she liked is perhaps a bit over the top. But I'm sure that plenty of people share the sentiment that the othering and scapegoating of refugees that's going on in this country right now is chilling, and, for anyone with a knowledge of European history, has some alarming historical resonances.
    The suggestion that the Tories are similar to the Nazis in outlook and policies is absurd and, frankly, as good an example of "othering" as you will find. The SNP do very similar things demonising something like 25% of Scots who vote Tory and who, as a result, are apparently not real Scots. It also encourages the arrogance and moral superiority complex that so many liberals, in the broadest sense, are prone to and is one of the reasons that they fail at the ballot box.

    There was a chap about 2000 years ago who had some interesting observations about motes and beams. She should reflect on it.
    Thank goodness Tories and Unionists never indulge in that kind of behaviour (I couldn’t find the photoshop of Sturgeon in an SS uniform so beloved by your fruitier fellow travellers, I suspect twitter may have banned it). Motes and beams indeed.

    https://twitter.com/professorfergus/status/1444259197168799746?s=21
    This one, TUD? https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_LjFitWgTf4/Wt8-pz0fuWI/AAAAAAAAQAc/6_ClSDp8SuEHs-JBe560EHnlG9AzBF1NwCLcBGAs/s1600/Sturgeonnaziuniform.jpg
    That’s the one.
    Ironically what one might call the far right in Scotland tends to Unionism.
    That’s a very seriously point actually as to why the SNP are wrong. Like Hitler they love the politics of nationalism.
    SNP won’t last much longer. People of Scotland will tire of the Nationalism spectacles, gravitate to another approach and Scot nationalism will go back to be a fringe thing.
    I see you’re as insightful and original on this topic as on others.
    😕
    I’m genuine sorry if I touched a nerve on Scottish Separatism that matters to you. To be honest divvy I really would like to listen and learn here as I have never chatted with SNP before. can you answer a few straightforward questions about it?

    1. Last time ref said it wanted to keep both the £ and the Monarchy? Will that be exactly the same in the next ref?
    2. Really? Having both those things, is it proper independence from continued English and London influence? or a sort of half way house have your cake and eat it independence?
    3. Surely the only True definition of independence is own currency and negotiate trade deal with what’s left of UK and everywhere else? Like Ireland? Because the place to avoid is the basket case facade democracy, Zimbabwe ending up in, you can have a parliament but not own the land, the resources, the ability to tax the necessary amount of wealth?
    4. If Scotland has independence from England, does it have the economy and assets to maintain the current lifestyle, free higher education etc, enough wealth owned, invested and generated, to tax, to maintain standards of living it currently enjoys? What main industry will it have other than tourism?
    5. Basically boils down to simple question, are the English currently takers from Scotland, Scotland takers from England, or current balance about right and fair?
    6. If you want to keep the monarchy, then why not trust a Royal Commission how we can share these Isles, in a helping sharing UK commonwealth (which it should already have been the last few hundred years) where everyone’s regional and local identity feels in a happy place? But To create such a happy place cannot be achieved through ramping nationalism and localism, and holding separatist referendums, can it?
    On the whole currency thing, I think it's widely acknowledged that the proposal to keep the pound was disingenuously sold and very poor politics. The factual point about it being viable in the short term was true, but it was an impossible message to sell to the public. I think the reality was that as soon as independence happened, or possibly even as part of the negotiations, the Scottish government would have pivoted away from that and launched their own currency / gone straight to the Euro if the EU accession fast-track would have been on. As a long term proposal, using the pound wouldn't have worked and I think the people saw through that particular ruse.
    Keeping the monarchy is a different matter. I'm certain the Scottish government wouldn't have moved at all on changing that. I can foresee a future, post-independence campaign for it, but I don't know whether it would really get the traction, and nobody on the mild-republican side of Scottish politics would want to risk their own position fighting a losing battle.

    As for the comments comparing any mainstream UK party with the Nazis, you're clearly an idiot.
    Thank you for what was almost a measured response. 🙂

    Hitler was a Nazi - Not a nationalist? So I can’t make a comparison between SNP and all parties and all politicians who exploit nationalism? Who Wrap them themselves in flags? Wear nationalist glasses?

    If I can’t, I do apologise.

    Truth is Your response to my post goes to the heart of this. This whole separatist push has been founded on nationalists avoiding good scrutiny of their plan by, exploiting nationalism. Critiquing the deceit of Nationalists politicians without the knee jerk response like yours and Union divvies becomes impossible.

    But this is too big to run away from scrutiny.

    Firstly, is not Gordon Brown shoring up his position with British Jobs for British Workers not example of wearing the glasses of Nationalism in the same way as Nicola Sturgeon uses Nationilsm? But each time Nationalism specs are worn, they can be like a steroid to your popular rating, but should not be used to cover up deficiencies, wearing them comes with a cost of stoking division. It’s use is to hide things. Mislead people.

    I think you are smart enough to understand politicians wrap themselves in flags, why and the costs of it. So is it me idiot, or you disingenuous?

    But let’s keep it friendly and simple. I’m not hostile to Scottish independence with crazy thoughts of sending tanks in. Being a Scottish National is just as cool as being a Tyke like I am. And Ireland got freedom from London, and it’s working good for them.

    Just trying to be clear what you are getting into. And if you are being taken into something honestly and know what you are getting. On YouTube is a programme with someone Carrington who set up Zimbabwe system, and he is saying sorry, no wonder it is a disaster we made mess of setting it up. Are we sure we are not seeing similar mistakes in the confusion over post independence wealth ownership?

    This is why it needs these questions answered you are avoiding with the idiot insult - it need answers up front.

    I’m not questioning the product and desire to have it, but sometimes it is the implementation that makes the following disaster.
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cheating BritNats hate cheaters. Go figure.

    Oh fuck off you ludicrous popinjay.
    Are you saying he is not spreading Swedeness and light today?
    A hint of real tetchiness from TSE there, I hope he hasn't punted his employer's reserves on Our Boy.
    I'm perfidious Albion here, my big green is on Verstappen. Make a profit on Hamilton as well.
    Is that for the championship or the race?
    Championship.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    maaarsh said:

    Why are Red Bull negotiating with the race stewards? How can a participant be involved in negotiations as to what the rules are?

    Indeed, if left to the stewards that would have been a drive through penalty within 3 laps of restart, putting him to middle/back of the field, so what we just watched was another massive gift to RB from Masi.
    I can’t see why that wasn’t referred to the stewards immediately
  • maaarsh said:

    Why are Red Bull negotiating with the race stewards? How can a participant be involved in negotiations as to what the rules are?

    Indeed, if left to the stewards that would have been a drive through penalty within 3 laps of restart, putting him to middle/back of the field, so what we just watched was another massive gift to RB from Masi.
    I can’t see why that wasn’t referred to the stewards immediately
    It was but during a red flag the race director can make a decision.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Pulpstar said:

    Verstappen quite clearly retook the lead after going off there - watch as stewards take no action

    He's been put behind Lewis
    As he should, though I note it was Massi’s offer
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    DavidL said:

    Of course Max is allowed to drive other people off the track or take shortcuts. It’s all fine.

    Tiny tears.
    Some really insightful comments from you this evening.
    Anyone would have thought you were bearing some kind of grudge….
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,321
    I wouldn't use this track for go karting, bluntly. It isn't safe and while there is some entertainment in terms of these stupid restarts it's not what we're watching it for.

    The House of Saud should refund every penny and do public penance.
  • This track seems to be about as well designed as the "smart motorway" idea.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,587

    This track seems to be about as well designed as the "smart motorway" idea.

    Real shit show to have a lottery track at this stage of the season. No real ontrack action, just a series of dice rolls.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,389

    Farooq said:

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I'm not too tight to pay for Sky. But I am too tight to pay for a TV license.
    I know others differ, but I get a massive amount from my TV licence. Heck, I probably listen to three or four hours of BBC podcast content a week alone.

    (Yes, I know I don't need a TV licence for that - but it's all paid for by it.)

    In entertainment terms, it's blooming great value for me. Although, as I've said passim, the BBC's funding model is utterly borken in the long term.
    I haven't watched TV in 5 years; but in my case the license fee is worth it for Radio 3 and Radio 6.
  • darkage said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I'm not too tight to pay for Sky. But I am too tight to pay for a TV license.
    I know others differ, but I get a massive amount from my TV licence. Heck, I probably listen to three or four hours of BBC podcast content a week alone.

    (Yes, I know I don't need a TV licence for that - but it's all paid for by it.)

    In entertainment terms, it's blooming great value for me. Although, as I've said passim, the BBC's funding model is utterly borken in the long term.
    I haven't watched TV in 5 years; but in my case the license fee is worth it for Radio 3 and Radio 6.
    You don't need a tv licence for radio.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    darkage said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm listening to the F1 on the BBC website, from the F1 page.

    And it's moved to football.

    Poor, BBC. Very poor.

    It's on 5 Live Extra.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_five_live_sports_extra
    Thanks, I know. But if you go to the F1 page, it's playing the footie.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/54911282

    They've done this sort of thing before. A few years ago, I was listening to the F1 whilst driving. They changed sport, and said the F1 moved to 5 Live Extra. I tuned to 5LE, which was playing another sport. After a few minutes, 5LE said the F1 was on the main 5 Live. I tuned back, only for another sport. Neither channel had the F1 on, and both were saying it was on the other channel...

    (I heard a funny anecdote once about BBC swapping channels...)
    Watch it on sky? Who wants to listen to F1 on the radio??
    Some of us have lives.

    And are too tight to pay for Sky. ;)
    I'm not too tight to pay for Sky. But I am too tight to pay for a TV license.
    I know others differ, but I get a massive amount from my TV licence. Heck, I probably listen to three or four hours of BBC podcast content a week alone.

    (Yes, I know I don't need a TV licence for that - but it's all paid for by it.)

    In entertainment terms, it's blooming great value for me. Although, as I've said passim, the BBC's funding model is utterly borken in the long term.
    I haven't watched TV in 5 years; but in my case the license fee is worth it for Radio 3 and Radio 6.
    Um.. you realise you can listen to that stuff without paying for a licence?
This discussion has been closed.