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Neither Johnson nor his deputy Raab come out of this well – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,592
edited November 2021 in General
Neither Johnson nor his deputy Raab come out of this well – politicalbetting.com

Deputy PM Raab struggling here to defend Johnson's refusal to wear a mask while visiting a hospital https://t.co/i3zg75PAgu

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Comments

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited November 2021
    Part of Boris Johnson must be wishing Dominic Cummings was still there. He at least knew how to intermittently troll and be provocative, and at other times give the impression that the government remotely gave a damn.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,933
    Well he’s topped his Dover to Calais moment.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,933
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.

    He’s Silvio Berlusconi without the bunga bunga parties.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,370
    Katy Balls: Tory MPs are furious at ‘missing-in-action’ Boris

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-missing-in-action
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.

    He’s Silvio Berlusconi without the bunga bunga parties.
    Bunga bunga is pretty much Boris’s whole ethos.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Is Raab just outright lying in this clip?
    Or fantastically stupid?
    Or both?

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,349
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.

    He’s Silvio Berlusconi without the bunga bunga parties.
    That's an awfully confident statement.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,711
    Gardenwalker said:

    Is Raab just outright lying in this clip?
    Or fantastically stupid?
    Or both?

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    He's a lawyer. He's defending his client. Most lawyers who become MPs realise it's a different job, but Raab's a robot.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,776
    Gardenwalker said:

    Is Raab just outright lying in this clip?
    Or fantastically stupid?
    Or both?

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    The government guidelines are here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#when-you-should-wear-a-face-covering

    The salient line is here:

    "Infection Prevention Control (IPC) guidance advises that patients and visitors across all healthcare settings should wear a face covering, providing it is tolerated and is not detrimental to their medical or care needs. They should also be worn in care homes to protect residents from the risk of infection."

    I might also add a third possibility "wilfully ignorant" - which is in many ways a combination of lying and stupid.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.

    He’s Silvio Berlusconi without the bunga bunga parties.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,370
    Gardenwalker said:

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    It's fascinating

    BoZo's contempt for parliament is part of his appeal. It's why the Brexiteers supported him.

    I am less sure that his open contempt of Tory backbench MPs will keep him in office though...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    I hadn't actually thought of that. Indeed, appearing with a mask on might have riled some of his base and sent them off to REFUK.

    I've noticed the same pattern on trains too. Manspreading and masklessness often combined. I say this as someone who is pretty sceptical of the need for masks now we're all vaccinated but who tends to go with the flow on the trains to avoid dirty looks. The telling part is that they feel no such peer pressure. It's part of their identity (and I did hear a couple of them chuckling about the "scared little people with their face nappies" on an evening train from London Bridge a week ago).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,886
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited November 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    It's fascinating

    BoZo's contempt for parliament is part of his appeal. It's why the Brexiteers supported him.

    I am less sure that his open contempt of Tory backbench MPs will keep him in office though...
    This is almost the most central point in everything that's happened so far. He seems to think that the trolling, deliberately provocative approach that's worked for him elsewhere will work here - or actually, that it's the only approach he can take. It's beginning to look like some sort of existential crisis for him in this respect, and he's already making it worse daily.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    TimS said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    I hadn't actually thought of that. Indeed, appearing with a mask on might have riled some of his base and sent them off to REFUK.

    I've noticed the same pattern on trains too. Manspreading and masklessness often combined. I say this as someone who is pretty sceptical of the need for masks now we're all vaccinated but who tends to go with the flow on the trains to avoid dirty looks. The telling part is that they feel no such peer pressure. It's part of their identity (and I did hear a couple of them chuckling about the "scared little people with their face nappies" on an evening train from London Bridge a week ago).
    With the shit coming out of their mouths, face nappies sounds about right. They're usually mouth breathers too. Very basic.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,439
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.

    He’s Silvio Berlusconi without the bunga bunga parties.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/boris-johnson-security-evgeny-lebedev-perugia-party
    The main reason there won’t be BJ bunga bunga parties is that he’s addicted to doing stuff on someone else’s dollar: forever the gaping mouthed guest, never the party giver.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752
    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    We discussed this the other night. Mas wearing on trains and tubes follows an unstable equilibrium based on unspoken peer pressure, between the two strange attractors of masking and unmasking. A majority of one or the other and most others fall into line.

    I would imagine late evening when people have had a few lend themselves to the unmasked equilibrium state.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    Some bleak and startling videos from Belarus. Like a dystopian movie

    https://twitter.com/reevellp/status/1458034107028434945?s=21

    https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/1458033959951126528?s=21

    https://twitter.com/euronews/status/1458030475012870149?s=21
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,553
    FPT
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Grim situation on the Polish/Belarus border.

    Difficult to know what to think. One moment you see some poor Yazidi woman sleeping with her child on freezing mud and your heart cracks, the next you see a violent refugee attacking the border with an axe and you think “ok, fire some warning shots”

    The truly murky shit is how they are getting there. It seems the Russians and Turks are flying them free from Damascus to Minsk then bussing them to the border.

    Many want to go to Germany but others aspire to Britain. If they speak a foreign language it is English, of course

    Supposedly 15 have died so far. Could be many more if this drags on

    People are dying. They must be allowed safe passage. If they want to come here we should have them. We need workers.
    That’s nice of you. Maybe you could house them in your garden
    There are plenty of empty properties in the UK. God bless these vulnerable men, women and young children, seeking freedom from Persecution.
    I don't think that is the case - though at present there are extras because of Covid restrictions, and the 12 month or more delay it takes to remove an unwilling tenant forced to stay because the Council have told them that leaving before the full legal process and the bailiff coming means they will be deemed "intentionally homeless", and not be eligible for housing. That prevents short term leases.

    For the last few years long term "empties" (6 months or more) has been around 0.7%, recently increased to about 0.8-.9% during Covid. Can it realistically be less than that?

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/755383/all-vacant-dwellings-england-by-type/

    Here's the position from 2014, with the G including empties for more than 3 months. Though being the G we don't get the definition.



    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/23/europe-11m-empty-properties-enough-house-homeless-continent-twice

    There's a reason Germany could take 1m refugees in 2015. There's also stuff about the UK not building very many.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,439
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    It's fascinating

    BoZo's contempt for parliament is part of his appeal. It's why the Brexiteers supported him.

    I am less sure that his open contempt of Tory backbench MPs will keep him in office though...
    There's an excellent promotion opportunity here. If you're a Conservative backbencher with a measure of conscience and a distaste for how things are being run. If you're tired of Boris humiliating you, get a letter into the 1922. Whoever wins power won't forget your role in saving the Conservative Party from the FLSoJ. Could be a junior ministerial role in there, a first step on the ladder.

    Plus, if you're worried about this kind of thing, it's the right fucking thing to do.

    Where are you, bearers of the standard of good governance? I know you exist. Write the letter. It takes a minute, and your hands will be clean of everything bit of shit authored by the PM from here on. Imagine, waking with a clear conscience tomorrow. What a feeling. Do it.
    An ex PBer perhaps?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,349
    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Agreed. There is some level of anger at the mayor as well for carrying on as though the virus should still halt social life. The cancellation of the fireworks still rankles for people who don't even go, it's being seen as Sadiq telling the world that London is still closed for business when it absolutely isn't.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,933
    MaxPB said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Anyone expecting the PM to set an example on anything is going to be sorely disappointed.

    He’s Silvio Berlusconi without the bunga bunga parties.
    That's an awfully confident statement.
    It was a gag in a WhatsApp group, someone pointed out the PM was too disorganised to arrange such parties.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Agreed. There is some level of anger at the mayor as well for carrying on as though the virus should still halt social life. The cancellation of the fireworks still rankles for people who don't even go, it's being seen as Sadiq telling the world that London is still closed for business when it absolutely isn't.
    The cancellation of the fireworks pisses me off, still

    We should be bullish about the future, and glad of our success in returning to normal life. Not cowering, for no reason

  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,768
    Mr. Leon, be fair. The mayor was probably worried an attractive blonde in a bikini might show up and terrify every woman there.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,349
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Agreed. There is some level of anger at the mayor as well for carrying on as though the virus should still halt social life. The cancellation of the fireworks still rankles for people who don't even go, it's being seen as Sadiq telling the world that London is still closed for business when it absolutely isn't.
    The cancellation of the fireworks pisses me off, still

    We should be bullish about the future, and glad of our success in returning to normal life. Not cowering, for no reason

    I think people see it, correctly, as a political move to try and distance himself from the government's fully open economy and social life policy. It's completely cynical and will hurt London's economy just so Sadiq can make a political point that doesn't need to be made. It's a different form of BDS, contrast that with Andy Burnham welcoming the northern transport levelling up funding boost from Rishi a couple of weeks ago. Sadiq doesn't want what's best for London or Londoners, he just wants to oppose the Tory government. It's why he's completely unfit to be leader while Burnham has proved he really wants what's best for the people who voted and didn't vote for him.

    I'm really annoyed that the Tories didn't put up a proper candidate because Sadiq was and still is beatable. He's such a terrible mayor.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,184
    The one place I do still wear a face covering is in medical settings. Hospital, Clinic, GP, Vax Centre. Even the pharmacy.

    Bozo is an arse.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    edited November 2021
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,553
    edited November 2021
    EU hangs Scott out to dry lol.

    From the EU correspondent of the FT.

    Commission officials and EU diplomats roundly dismissing the idea that there is a "package" of retaliation measures being prepared by Brussels against UK - particularly a pre-emptivre strike over A16. No plan will be presented to EU envoys tomorrow or by Sefocvic to Frost on Fri
    https://twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1458032883155800071

    Mercantilism chess.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    edited November 2021
    There is a fascinating dynamic tension at play here. The PM is very much of the old school. Dinner at the Garrick Tory. Wealth and little to no ideology. Safe seats and cozy overseas consultancies.
    Meanwhile, there are a whole tranche of new back benchers who are quite the opposite. Needing to nurse their newly won voters who wouldn't feel comfortable visiting London, let alone one of its posher clubs.
    Yet the PM's electoral appeal isl to the latter, not the former. Even though his personal attitudes are diametrically opposed.
    No idea how this will play out.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    edited November 2021
    MattW said:

    FPT

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Grim situation on the Polish/Belarus border.

    Difficult to know what to think. One moment you see some poor Yazidi woman sleeping with her child on freezing mud and your heart cracks, the next you see a violent refugee attacking the border with an axe and you think “ok, fire some warning shots”

    The truly murky shit is how they are getting there. It seems the Russians and Turks are flying them free from Damascus to Minsk then bussing them to the border.

    Many want to go to Germany but others aspire to Britain. If they speak a foreign language it is English, of course

    Supposedly 15 have died so far. Could be many more if this drags on

    People are dying. They must be allowed safe passage. If they want to come here we should have them. We need workers.
    That’s nice of you. Maybe you could house them in your garden
    There are plenty of empty properties in the UK. God bless these vulnerable men, women and young children, seeking freedom from Persecution.
    I don't think that is the case - though at present there are extras because of Covid restrictions, and the 12 month or more delay it takes to remove an unwilling tenant forced to stay because the Council have told them that leaving before the full legal process and the bailiff coming means they will be deemed "intentionally homeless", and not be eligible for housing. That prevents short term leases.

    For the last few years long term "empties" (6 months or more) has been around 0.7%, recently increased to about 0.8-.9% during Covid. Can it realistically be less than that?

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/755383/all-vacant-dwellings-england-by-type/

    Here's the position from 2014, with the G including empties for more than 3 months. Though being the G we don't get the definition.



    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/23/europe-11m-empty-properties-enough-house-homeless-continent-twice

    There's a reason Germany could take 1m refugees in 2015. There's also stuff about the UK not building very many.

    Italy has a birth rate of 1.2/1.3 per woman, and the rate per thousand has more than halved since 1971; and they have millions of empty houses. The number of Italian nationals living in the UK has trebled since 2009, and AFAIC the more there are the happier I shall be - they are wonderful. But for Italy it is all a slow moving car crash. Perhaps they need to import a bit of new young life from, um....

    PS 29% of all UK births are to mothers born abroad. I wonder what it is in Italy. Does anyone know?

  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Agreed. There is some level of anger at the mayor as well for carrying on as though the virus should still halt social life. The cancellation of the fireworks still rankles for people who don't even go, it's being seen as Sadiq telling the world that London is still closed for business when it absolutely isn't.
    The cancellation of the fireworks pisses me off, still

    We should be bullish about the future, and glad of our success in returning to normal life. Not cowering, for no reason

    The Blackheath fireworks were cancelled this year "due to budget constraints", which was an interesting angle. I wonder if Covid might have been a useful excuse for some other closures that were really about saving money.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010
    Sorry, I'm with the cynics who think Johnson did this deliberately in order to try and move the news pack away from sleaze and Paterson.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    The other people should be vaccinated.

    But Boris should scrap the mask guidance altogether if he's not going to wear one. No issues with that, masks are beyond ridiculous post-vaccinations. If he's not going to do that, he should follow his own rules.

    Arse.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
    Or being double vaccinated. So you don't have a problem with people not wearing a mask if they're double jabbed?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,711
    dixiedean said:

    There is a fascinating dynamic tension at play here. The PM is very much of the old school. Dinner at the Garrick Tory. Wealth and little to no ideology. Safe seats and cozy overseas consultancies.

    Yes and no. Isn't Boris famously not much of a schmoozer and lacking in real friends and alliances in the party?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010

    James Melville
    @JamesMelville
    ·
    2h
    “Vaccine passports decimating Scottish nightlife.”

    Nightclub trade in Scotland has dropped by almost half (46%) since vaccine passports were introduced in Scotland.

    #NoVaccinePassports

    ===

    Gove needs to get up to Aberdeen more often.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,752
    rottenborough said:

    Sorry, I'm with the cynics who think Johnson did this deliberately in order to try and move the news pack away from sleaze and Paterson.

    Maybe we'll find out that the Paterson affair itself was a dead cat to distract from something else. The chess has gone 5D.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    edited November 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Agreed. There is some level of anger at the mayor as well for carrying on as though the virus should still halt social life. The cancellation of the fireworks still rankles for people who don't even go, it's being seen as Sadiq telling the world that London is still closed for business when it absolutely isn't.
    The cancellation of the fireworks pisses me off, still

    We should be bullish about the future, and glad of our success in returning to normal life. Not cowering, for no reason

    I think people see it, correctly, as a political move to try and distance himself from the government's fully open economy and social life policy. It's completely cynical and will hurt London's economy just so Sadiq can make a political point that doesn't need to be made. It's a different form of BDS, contrast that with Andy Burnham welcoming the northern transport levelling up funding boost from Rishi a couple of weeks ago. Sadiq doesn't want what's best for London or Londoners, he just wants to oppose the Tory government. It's why he's completely unfit to be leader while Burnham has proved he really wants what's best for the people who voted and didn't vote for him.

    I'm really annoyed that the Tories didn't put up a proper candidate because Sadiq was and still is beatable. He's such a terrible mayor.
    He was indeed beatable. The worst London mayor by a distance (tho there haven't been many). Even the people I know that voted for him - loyal lefties - either ignore him, slate him, or despise him. Nick Palmer constantly assures me that there are vast reserves of Khan-loving Londoners, I guess I just don't meet any?

    Another stupid thing that rankles. The barriers in the street to allow social distancing on pavements. Those hideous red and white blobs. Some of them are STILL THERE, slowing down traffic, blemishing the capital's beauty. Pointless. Get rid. Why doesn't he do the little stuff like that?

    I actually cannot think of a single thing he has *done*, which isn't negative: ie a restriction or a prohibition or an omission
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,886
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    I travel a bit on the tube, but WFH. So I avoid rush hour. Compliance with masks varies (buses seem to be better?) but it is always the younger groups who don't bother.

    I seem to be the only one who bothers in shops - if nothing else, it seems impolite to the shop assistants who are wearing theirs.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,971
    Today's Boris story is not about mask wearing in general, or on trains, where the issue is contentious. It's about mask wearing in a hospital, where the issue isn't contentious. Anybody who has visited hospitals frequently over the last 18 months, as I have, knows full well that everybody wears a mask at all times, especially in public areas, and it's rigidly enforced, both in speech and with signage. With good reason, I'd suggest.

    Boris has visited a lot of hospitals in the last 18 months. Of course he knows the expectation - he's not that thick. He chose to break it. I've no idea why, but ignorance or poor advice is no defence.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,669
    edited November 2021
    Here in rural England every curtain-twitching, punishment-freak wears a mask at every opportunity and stares daggers at anyone who fails to. They are, of course, all natural Conservatives (of the authoritarian, little-England variety) and the sight of Boris and his parliamentary colleagues in a state of undress must give them a fit of the vapours. Meanwhile, trendy lefty-greeny city dwellers are discarding their masks as fast as you can say Jacob Rees-Mogg. It's interesting how this vital cultural issue cuts across prior political sympathies and has become a proxy for intergenerational conflict.

    For avoidance of doubt I've stopped wearing one expect where specifically and prominently mandated. We're going to have to discard them sooner or later. Why not sooner?
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    It's fascinating

    BoZo's contempt for parliament is part of his appeal. It's why the Brexiteers supported him.

    I am less sure that his open contempt of Tory backbench MPs will keep him in office though...
    There's an excellent promotion opportunity here. If you're a Conservative backbencher with a measure of conscience and a distaste for how things are being run. If you're tired of Boris humiliating you, get a letter into the 1922. Whoever wins power won't forget your role in saving the Conservative Party from the FLSoJ. Could be a junior ministerial role in there, a first step on the ladder.

    Plus, if you're worried about this kind of thing, it's the right fucking thing to do.

    Where are you, bearers of the standard of good governance? I know you exist. Write the letter. It takes a minute, and your hands will be clean of everything bit of shit authored by the PM from here on. Imagine, waking with a clear conscience tomorrow. What a feeling. Do it.
    I'm afraid the average Tory is not the slightest bit interested in doing what's right. Too busy working out how to get their trotters in the trough.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,653
    I posted various comments on this one on the previous thread.

    Rules regarding masks in hospitals are clear and unambiguous - wear one at all times. Johnson wore one when off camera (picked up by long lens shots) but took it off when on camera.

    Why? What is the mindset of the man?

    Worse is Raab the Robot repeating over and over that the PM followed the rules whilst they played over and over the video proof that he didn't.

    One rule for us. Another for him. And they think you are stupid.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    You have to be one heck of an out there anti-masker to think a hospital is a fitting place to virtue signal about it.
    Can't see his "base" who take that view being overly numerous. Or likely to vote for anyone else anyway.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited November 2021
    Northern_Al said:

    Today's Boris story is not about mask wearing in general, or on trains, where the issue is contentious. It's about mask wearing in a hospital, where the issue isn't contentious. Anybody who has visited hospitals frequently over the last 18 months, as I have, knows full well that everybody wears a mask at all times, especially in public areas, and it's rigidly enforced, both in speech and with signage. With good reason, I'd suggest.

    Boris has visited a lot of hospitals in the last 18 months. Of course he knows the expectation - he's not that thick. He chose to break it. I've no idea why, but ignorance or poor advice is no defence.

    Maybe he thinks provocation and controversy are all he's got, when really worn down to the basics, and in a tight spot. That no-one will buy Responsible Boris. A real and defining crisis, if so.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
    I agree. I also test twice a week for work. So it's highly unlikely I would infect anyone. But my aversion to inadvertently infecting someone vulnerable is extremely high and I also feel like seeing people wearing masks in those confined spaces may reassure the vulnerable that others are looking out for them and allow them to participate more in society. It doesn't feel like a massive sacrifice either.
    Also I don't really want to catch Covid myself even though in all likelihood it would be a mild infection. It could disrupt my kids' schooling. And I could get Long Covid. So it makes sense to take small steps to avoid getting it if possible. I don't really know why masks are so totemic for some people.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    rottenborough said:

    Sorry, I'm with the cynics who think Johnson did this deliberately in order to try and move the news pack away from sleaze and Paterson.

    Unfortunately, for him it seems to have moved onto Cox.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    dixiedean said:

    You have to be one heck of an out there anti-masker to think a hospital is a fitting place to virtue signal about it.
    Can't see his "base" who take that view being overly numerous. Or likely to vote for anyone else anyway.

    My bigger problem is that he was there at all. I don't like photo opportunities at the best of times, but I'd have thought the last thing a hospital needs is a visit from the PM and all the press.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,349
    MattW said:

    EU hangs Scott out to dry lol.

    From the EU correspondent of the FT.

    Commission officials and EU diplomats roundly dismissing the idea that there is a "package" of retaliation measures being prepared by Brussels against UK - particularly a pre-emptivre strike over A16. No plan will be presented to EU envoys tomorrow or by Sefocvic to Frost on Fri
    https://twitter.com/MehreenKhn/status/1458032883155800071

    Mercantilism chess.

    The idea was always ridiculous and being pushed by Ireland who were and still clearly are trying to bounce the EU into threatening to pull the plug on the TCA. It's never going to happen. There is no scenario where the EU withdraws from the TCA in response to A16. We know it, they know it and that's why both sides will come to an agreement on rewriting the NI Protocol.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
    Or being double vaccinated. So you don't have a problem with people not wearing a mask if they're double jabbed?
    And they are surrounded by other people who are double vaccinated. Mask wearing is more about protecting other people in my view.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010
    "Labour's Anneliese Dodds writing to Johnson today to ask whether Cox is a 'Caribbean based barrister or a Conservative MP'. "

    Spectator
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,886
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
    I agree. I also test twice a week for work. So it's highly unlikely I would infect anyone. But my aversion to inadvertently infecting someone vulnerable is extremely high and I also feel like seeing people wearing masks in those confined spaces may reassure the vulnerable that others are looking out for them and allow them to participate more in society. It doesn't feel like a massive sacrifice either.
    Also I don't really want to catch Covid myself even though in all likelihood it would be a mild infection. It could disrupt my kids' schooling. And I could get Long Covid. So it makes sense to take small steps to avoid getting it if possible. I don't really know why masks are so totemic for some people.
    As a matter of interest - do you use N95s? They are available now, and increase *your* protection.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,971
    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Sorry, I'm with the cynics who think Johnson did this deliberately in order to try and move the news pack away from sleaze and Paterson.

    Unfortunately, for him it seems to have moved onto Cox.
    What, we're back on to Boris's love life?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,117
    I think Johnson’s shelf life was always going to be
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    It’s maddening, the contempt they have.

    It's fascinating

    BoZo's contempt for parliament is part of his appeal. It's why the Brexiteers supported him.

    I am less sure that his open contempt of Tory backbench MPs will keep him in office though...
    This is almost the most central point in everything that's happened so far. He seems to think that the trolling, deliberately provocative approach that's worked for him elsewhere will work here - or actually, that it's the only approach he can take. It's beginning to look like some sort of existential crisis for him in this respect, and he's already making it worse daily.
    His failure to take ownership of the issue is a huge misjudgement.

    A bit like when he hid in a fridge during the last election. Works when voters perceived Brexit to be on the line. Not sure it works any longer
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
    I agree. I also test twice a week for work. So it's highly unlikely I would infect anyone. But my aversion to inadvertently infecting someone vulnerable is extremely high and I also feel like seeing people wearing masks in those confined spaces may reassure the vulnerable that others are looking out for them and allow them to participate more in society. It doesn't feel like a massive sacrifice either.
    Also I don't really want to catch Covid myself even though in all likelihood it would be a mild infection. It could disrupt my kids' schooling. And I could get Long Covid. So it makes sense to take small steps to avoid getting it if possible. I don't really know why masks are so totemic for some people.
    Masks are fucking horrible. A blight on human life. It's an ominous sign that someone relatively sensible like you just shrugs and accepts them. They must absolutely NOT be normalised, and we have to bin them ASAP if not yesterday

    For a start they are really really bad for deaf people, and for autistic people. They are just BAD. Human smiles given and received make daily life sweeter, a billion times a day. Give us back our smiles
    I guess I just don't really find them such an imposition. You must have a lot more random people smiling at you than I do if that's the deal breaker for you.
    PS "relatively sensible"? Thanks, I'll take that. 😉
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,321
    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1458044281848045577?t=a62yuT7o1Lc5K-Eg1JU19A&s=19

    Labour still not breaking ahead.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    tlg86 said:

    dixiedean said:

    You have to be one heck of an out there anti-masker to think a hospital is a fitting place to virtue signal about it.
    Can't see his "base" who take that view being overly numerous. Or likely to vote for anyone else anyway.

    My bigger problem is that he was there at all. I don't like photo opportunities at the best of times, but I'd have thought the last thing a hospital needs is a visit from the PM and all the press.
    Was my local hospital.
    Tbf. They don't do much there at the best of times anymore. It is a constant source of complaint that you have to go to Newcastle or Cramlington for even routine stuff. Which he's drawn renewed local attention to. It's a safe seat too.
    All curious.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rottenborough said:

    "Labour's Anneliese Dodds writing to Johnson today to ask whether Cox is a 'Caribbean based barrister or a Conservative MP'. "

    Spectator

    That's between Cox and his constituents, including me. Bugger all to do with Dodds or indeed Johnson.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,260
    edited November 2021
    Another poll with reduced conservative lead but again labour not benefiting

    NEW Westminster Voting Intention

    Savanta ComRes

    Our first post-Paterson polling

    Con 38 (-2)
    Lab 35 (=)
    LDM 10 (+1)
    SNP 5 (=)
    Grn 4 (=)
    Other 9 (+1)

    2,231 UK adults, 5-7 Nov

    (Changes from 29-31 Oct)
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,654
    I wore a mask shopping this morning. Not required but advised in indoor settings. The reason I wore it though was purely out of choice as I went to a club on Saturday night which probably was absolute perfect covid spreading conditions! So I decided this morning I would wear a mask out just in case I’ve caught it until a few more days have passed and hopefully no symptoms.

    It didn’t bother me wearing it, didn’t feel I’d lost my liberty and about half the people in waitrose wearing them.

    I’m essentially happy wearing one to protect others if I think the situation makes it wiser to potentially reduce risk of anyone else catching the lurgy if I have it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    edited November 2021
    Sadiq Khan's YouGove page is telling, and amusing


    For a start he really is not well-liked


    Fame (have heard of): 89%

    Popularity (liked by): 22%

    Disliked by: 41%

    Neutral: 26%

    To be disliked by nearly half the country, despite being basically invisible and doing nothing of note, is quite an achievement

    Then YouGove offers these gems:

    OTHER THINGS LIKED BY SADIQ KHAN'S FANS:


    Peterborough

    North Korea

    Wolverhampton

    A cook book called "Magnolia Table"

    Alan Arkin

    Paraguay



    It seems that if you "like" Sadiq Khan you are incredibly niche and eccentric and you probably like Huddersfield, and Snoop Dog's cooking, as well. Or you live in Peterborough and Wolverhampton.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Sadiq_Khan
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,010
    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    1h
    After a few tricky weeks, could Boris Johnson think triggering Article 16 is the tonic the Tory party needs to get it back together again?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,528
    edited November 2021
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Another poll with reduced conservative lead but again labour not benefiting

    NEW Westminster Voting Intention

    Savanta ComRes

    Our first post-Paterson polling

    Con 38 (-2)
    Lab 35 (=)
    LDM 10 (+1)
    SNP 5 (=)
    Grn 4 (=)
    Other 9 (+1)

    2,231 UK adults, 5-7 Nov

    (Changes from 29-31 Oct)

    And that's the kind of poll that will make him think that the old formula can just keep on working, both in how he treats other MP's and the public. A very dangerous assumption for him to make, under the current febrile and unpredictable circumstances.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
    I agree. I also test twice a week for work. So it's highly unlikely I would infect anyone. But my aversion to inadvertently infecting someone vulnerable is extremely high and I also feel like seeing people wearing masks in those confined spaces may reassure the vulnerable that others are looking out for them and allow them to participate more in society. It doesn't feel like a massive sacrifice either.
    Also I don't really want to catch Covid myself even though in all likelihood it would be a mild infection. It could disrupt my kids' schooling. And I could get Long Covid. So it makes sense to take small steps to avoid getting it if possible. I don't really know why masks are so totemic for some people.
    As a matter of interest - do you use N95s? They are available now, and increase *your* protection.
    No. I don't wear a mask often as I usually cycle to work or WFH and don't go out that frequently. Usually just the fortnightly trip to the supermarket.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
    Or being double vaccinated. So you don't have a problem with people not wearing a mask if they're double jabbed?
    And they are surrounded by other people who are double vaccinated. Mask wearing is more about protecting other people in my view.
    Oh, so you think people should wear masks to protect the unvaccinated?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Well said. It's not political at all, although the usual culture warriors are absolutely determined to make it so. With London it is at least partly rational: it got so ravaged earlier in the pandemic that it has barely registered an exit wave.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    IshmaelZ said:

    rottenborough said:

    "Labour's Anneliese Dodds writing to Johnson today to ask whether Cox is a 'Caribbean based barrister or a Conservative MP'. "

    Spectator

    That's between Cox and his constituents, including me. Bugger all to do with Dodds or indeed Johnson.
    Hang on. Johnson is leader of the Conservatives. Cox takes the Tory whip.
    It has at least something to do with him.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,922
    rottenborough said:


    James Melville
    @JamesMelville
    ·
    2h
    “Vaccine passports decimating Scottish nightlife.”

    Nightclub trade in Scotland has dropped by almost half (46%) since vaccine passports were introduced in Scotland.

    #NoVaccinePassports

    ===

    Gove needs to get up to Aberdeen more often.

    Perhaps it is the fear of bumping into Govey on the dance floor that is responsible for the drop more than the vaccine passport.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,184
    Time for one of my favourite mixed metaphors:

    Tory Fat Cats with Their Snouts in the Trough
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Serious question:
    has Boris ever had a job working on the floor with ordinary folk? A summer job say? Or?

    I hope someone can tell me so I won't have to study up on him more closely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,176
    IshmaelZ said:

    We are conflating two ENTIRELY different issues here. One, the less interesting one, is do MPs have the time to do two jobs, like Cox is doing. The other is corruption on a French president, failed African state, Russian oligarch kinda level. Randox got paid £347m for the extension of an existing contract, 500m in total. I would bet that 7 figure backhanders were involved.

    And as for that 37bn for test n trace...

    A good example of the previous discussion of how 'sleaze' is a bad catch all term for this. Approve or disapprove of Cox, and it is a debate worth having, it is of a different category entirely from corrupt practice.
    SandyRentool said:

    Time for one of my favourite mixed metaphors:

    Tory Fat Cats with Their Snouts in the Trough

    Mixed metaphors are the best metaphors. Boris for instance has shot himself in the foot, which he also put in his mouth.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,348
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Another poll with reduced conservative lead but again labour not benefiting

    NEW Westminster Voting Intention

    Savanta ComRes

    Our first post-Paterson polling

    Con 38 (-2)
    Lab 35 (=)
    LDM 10 (+1)
    SNP 5 (=)
    Grn 4 (=)
    Other 9 (+1)

    2,231 UK adults, 5-7 Nov

    (Changes from 29-31 Oct)

    Indeed. But the trend is clear. The Conservatives couldn't be beaten and could do what they liked polling 40% or above consistently.
    They can still do what they like of course. But have to be aware there are consequences. Not least several dozen Tory MP'S out of their seats on those figures.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    boulay said:

    I wore a mask shopping this morning. Not required but advised in indoor settings. The reason I wore it though was purely out of choice as I went to a club on Saturday night which probably was absolute perfect covid spreading conditions! So I decided this morning I would wear a mask out just in case I’ve caught it until a few more days have passed and hopefully no symptoms.

    It didn’t bother me wearing it, didn’t feel I’d lost my liberty and about half the people in waitrose wearing them.

    I’m essentially happy wearing one to protect others if I think the situation makes it wiser to potentially reduce risk of anyone else catching the lurgy if I have it.


    Yeah, fair enough. I will wear one in certain settings – e.g. on a packed tube or train. I just don't think they should be mandated – and find irrational beyond all comprehension the seemingly large constituency of people who would mandate masks (a daily inconvenience and life ruiner for the deaf) but would not mandate vaccines (a temporal inconvenience that would affect only the 5% or so that are unvaxxed).

    (For the record, I would mandate neither but would crank up the public campaigns to whittle down the unvaxxed).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    rottenborough said:

    "Labour's Anneliese Dodds writing to Johnson today to ask whether Cox is a 'Caribbean based barrister or a Conservative MP'. "

    Spectator

    That's between Cox and his constituents, including me. Bugger all to do with Dodds or indeed Johnson.
    Hang on. Johnson is leader of the Conservatives. Cox takes the Tory whip.
    It has at least something to do with him.
    OK but Johnson isn't in charge of him in the way he is of ministers. i'd have written to the constituency chairman
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,176
    rottenborough said:

    Sam Coates Sky
    @SamCoatesSky
    ·
    1h
    After a few tricky weeks, could Boris Johnson think triggering Article 16 is the tonic the Tory party needs to get it back together again?

    It's like playing the greatest hits.

    "It's time to remind the EU once again, that Brexit means Brexit. What's that, corruption? More like L'corruptión, amiright?"
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,439
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    I guess I just don't really find them such an imposition. You must have a lot more random people smiling at you than I do if that's the deal breaker for you.
    PS "relatively sensible"? Thanks, I'll take that. 😉

    In ‘oppressive’ Scotland I wear masks for probably around a total of an hour per week in 1-10 minute increments. If anyone thinks that’s anywhere in the top ten of the worst things that’s happened to them in the last 18 months they’ve had a pretty easy Covid.

    If there comes a point when the PB Volkssturm had to be conscripted and deployed we’re all pretty much down the shitter anyway, but I fervently hope I don’t find myself in a foxhole alongside one of the giant man babies of PB.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
    Or being double vaccinated. So you don't have a problem with people not wearing a mask if they're double jabbed?
    And they are surrounded by other people who are double vaccinated. Mask wearing is more about protecting other people in my view.
    Oh, so you think people should wear masks to protect the unvaccinated?
    Covid is still a risk to public health and I think we can all take small steps to limit its spread while still enjoying normal life as much as possible. Covering your mouth and nose on public transport and in other enclosed spaces seems a sensible precaution that protects those who are most vulnerable. Some of those may be people who can take the vaccine but choose not to. Personally I disapprove of their decision but that doesn't mean I want to risk killing them.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
    I agree. I also test twice a week for work. So it's highly unlikely I would infect anyone. But my aversion to inadvertently infecting someone vulnerable is extremely high and I also feel like seeing people wearing masks in those confined spaces may reassure the vulnerable that others are looking out for them and allow them to participate more in society. It doesn't feel like a massive sacrifice either.
    Also I don't really want to catch Covid myself even though in all likelihood it would be a mild infection. It could disrupt my kids' schooling. And I could get Long Covid. So it makes sense to take small steps to avoid getting it if possible. I don't really know why masks are so totemic for some people.
    Masks are fucking horrible. A blight on human life. It's an ominous sign that someone relatively sensible like you just shrugs and accepts them. They must absolutely NOT be normalised, and we have to bin them ASAP if not yesterday

    For a start they are really really bad for deaf people, and for autistic people. They are just BAD. Human smiles given and received make daily life sweeter, a billion times a day. Give us back our smiles
    I guess I just don't really find them such an imposition. You must have a lot more random people smiling at you than I do if that's the deal breaker for you.
    PS "relatively sensible"? Thanks, I'll take that. 😉
    Leon is right on this, though. Given that smiling and nonverbal feedback is the very heart of human conversation, masks are a huge imposition. And he is also right, of course, that they seriously afflict the lives of the deaf, partially deaf and autistic. I suspect evidence will soon emerge that they affect young children's socialisation too: there is a reason why we have evolved to have faces – and face each other.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 63,427
    Anabobazina said:

    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Leon said:

    Anabobazina said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Which is odd indeed, given how dovish London is on covid. FWIW, there is almost zero mask wearing anywhere in the shops, pubs etc near me in north London. Commuter trains might, of course, be different.
    Yes, same here. In awfully posh, Remainery, highly educated Primrose Hill, no-one is wearing a mask. They don't give a fuck. I'm not sure this is a political thing at all. It's more like London has stopped caring. We are bored of the bug
    Well said. It's not political at all, although the usual culture warriors are absolutely determined to make it so. With London it is at least partly rational: it got so ravaged earlier in the pandemic that it has barely registered an exit wave.
    Yes, London is one of the least affected areas in the country. Especially inner London. Prior infection, as you say



    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,971
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
    Or being double vaccinated. So you don't have a problem with people not wearing a mask if they're double jabbed?
    And they are surrounded by other people who are double vaccinated. Mask wearing is more about protecting other people in my view.
    Oh, so you think people should wear masks to protect the unvaccinated?
    Covid is still a risk to public health and I think we can all take small steps to limit its spread while still enjoying normal life as much as possible. Covering your mouth and nose on public transport and in other enclosed spaces seems a sensible precaution that protects those who are most vulnerable. Some of those may be people who can take the vaccine but choose not to. Personally I disapprove of their decision but that doesn't mean I want to risk killing them.
    The unvaccinated will eventually encounter COVID. I don't see what difference it makes if they do so on a train today or in the pub tomorrow.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,321
    Wasn't Geoffrey Cox likely to earn more as a QC without being an MP?

    Raab was given a short straw this morning, he has to go out and offer a defence of Boris Johnson. He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. Perhaps he felt it wasn't yet the time to knife the PM.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Alphabet_Soup said:

    Here in rural England every curtain-twitching, punishment-freak wears a mask at every opportunity and stares daggers at anyone who fails to. They are, of course, all natural Conservatives (of the authoritarian, little-England variety) and the sight of Boris and his parliamentary colleagues in a state of undress must give them a fit of the vapours. Meanwhile, trendy lefty-greeny city dwellers are discarding their masks as fast as you can say Jacob Rees-Mogg. It's interesting how this vital cultural issue cuts across prior political sympathies and has become a proxy for intergenerational conflict.

    For avoidance of doubt I've stopped wearing one expect where specifically and prominently mandated. We're going to have to discard them sooner or later. Why not sooner?


    Certainly that reflects my lefty-green friends. I know one – a tree-hugging yoga teacher –who point blank refuses to wear masks as she believes it to be inhumane*.

    The idea that it cuts along traditional left-right lines is palpable nonsense, as you rightly say.

    * She is happily vaxxed – I should add
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    I find it so bizarre that so many people are adamant that masks are "no" or "very little" imposition.

    Masks are a massive imposition, providing in my judgement no or very little benefit and that benefit is certainly not outweighed by the imposition.

    If you think masks are great, fine, wear one. But don't foist them upon the rest of us who dislike them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,886
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Leon said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Why do you wear a mask indoors most of the time? Are you not double vaxxed? Or do you have waning immunity?
    To protect other people.
    Fair enough, but it is highly unlikely you are infectious if you are double jabbed and have no symptoms

    I have stopped wearing a mask (tho I might do it again, for personal protection, as I wait for my Booster). We have to get beyond the mentality of fear

    I have a silk neck gaiter, which I wear mainly because it looks cool, like I am a war correspondent just back from Kabul, but I slip it over my nose if I am surrounded by the paranoid
    I agree. I also test twice a week for work. So it's highly unlikely I would infect anyone. But my aversion to inadvertently infecting someone vulnerable is extremely high and I also feel like seeing people wearing masks in those confined spaces may reassure the vulnerable that others are looking out for them and allow them to participate more in society. It doesn't feel like a massive sacrifice either.
    Also I don't really want to catch Covid myself even though in all likelihood it would be a mild infection. It could disrupt my kids' schooling. And I could get Long Covid. So it makes sense to take small steps to avoid getting it if possible. I don't really know why masks are so totemic for some people.
    As a matter of interest - do you use N95s? They are available now, and increase *your* protection.
    No. I don't wear a mask often as I usually cycle to work or WFH and don't go out that frequently. Usually just the fortnightly trip to the supermarket.
    In which case the last argument against using them - cost - goes away. A box of 10 is about £15.

    If you really want to use a mask, for rare occasions, an N95 in your pocket, in it's original sealed bag, is far better than any cloth mask.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,690
    Toms said:

    Serious question:
    has Boris ever had a job working on the floor with ordinary folk? A summer job say? Or?

    I hope someone can tell me so I won't have to study up on him more closely.

    I don't think so, from my memory of reading his biography. He should have done, my four years working in a restaurant when I was young have had a lasting positive effect in my life.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    tlg86 said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    He knows his base hate masks. I took a train in today, it's notable that people coming in from Bexley, Dartford etc are much less likely to be wearing masks, especially the older white man-spreading type that I would peg as likely Johnson supporters (based on polling cross-tabs). The inner London commuters from solid Labour seats are mostly masked.

    Interesting - was around Piccadilly last Saturday. The only people wearing masks indoors (like me), were the older groups (40s and above), and those who were Korean, Chinese & Japanese.

    The level of non-compliance on the Tube was extremely high.
    I think rush hour compliance is better than weekend which is better than late night, probably reflecting both demographics and degree of overcrowding. Personally I wear a mask indoors most of the time, except where I know there is regular testing in place like at work or eg when I went to the theatre recently, and not at home obvs.
    Yes, I've also heard that theatres offer protection against the spread of COVID.
    You had to have evidence of a recent negative test or being double vaccinated to attend.
    Or being double vaccinated. So you don't have a problem with people not wearing a mask if they're double jabbed?
    And they are surrounded by other people who are double vaccinated. Mask wearing is more about protecting other people in my view.
    Oh, so you think people should wear masks to protect the unvaccinated?
    Covid is still a risk to public health and I think we can all take small steps to limit its spread while still enjoying normal life as much as possible. Covering your mouth and nose on public transport and in other enclosed spaces seems a sensible precaution that protects those who are most vulnerable. Some of those may be people who can take the vaccine but choose not to. Personally I disapprove of their decision but that doesn't mean I want to risk killing them.
    You're not risking killing them, their own choices and the virus are.

    The virus is endemic, its going to spread. Whether they catch it today, tomorrow or next year doesn't really matter. What does matter is whether you're vaccinated or not.

    NPIs made sense pre-PIs. Not now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    dixiedean said:

    You have to be one heck of an out there anti-masker to think a hospital is a fitting place to virtue signal about it.
    Can't see his "base" who take that view being overly numerous. Or likely to vote for anyone else anyway.


    Yes, absolutely. It's clearly a ridiculous setting to be unmasked. My views on mask mandates don't apply to frontline healthcare settings – where wearing a mask was often mandated even in pre-covid times!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Leon said:

    Sadiq Khan's YouGove page is telling, and amusing


    For a start he really is not well-liked


    Fame (have heard of): 89%

    Popularity (liked by): 22%

    Disliked by: 41%

    Neutral: 26%

    To be disliked by nearly half the country, despite being basically invisible and doing nothing of note, is quite an achievement

    Then YouGove offers these gems:

    OTHER THINGS LIKED BY SADIQ KHAN'S FANS:


    Peterborough

    North Korea

    Wolverhampton

    A cook book called "Magnolia Table"

    Alan Arkin

    Paraguay



    It seems that if you "like" Sadiq Khan you are incredibly niche and eccentric and you probably like Huddersfield, and Snoop Dog's cooking, as well. Or you live in Peterborough and Wolverhampton.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Sadiq_Khan

    I actually think Sadiq is the most useless political leader I can remember. Even Corbyn moved the conversation leftwards.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Sadiq Khan is the politician for people who think Keir Starmer is too decisive and attention-grabby.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,065
    IshmaelZ said:

    rottenborough said:

    "Labour's Anneliese Dodds writing to Johnson today to ask whether Cox is a 'Caribbean based barrister or a Conservative MP'. "

    Spectator

    That's between Cox and his constituents, including me. Bugger all to do with Dodds or indeed Johnson.
    Yes, what MPs lawfully do has two levels of scrutiny, which is quite enough; the local or national party can deselect them as a candidate, and secondly the voters can remove them. It more than fulfils the Tony Benn test of democracy.

    The breaking rules and being paid for specific political/financial influence matter is completely different; and ought to be a matter for criminal sanctions as well as parliamentary discipline.

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