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Neither Johnson nor his deputy Raab come out of this well – politicalbetting.com

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    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Excellent idea

    Singapore will force unvaccinated to pay for own medical care

    People "unvaccinated by choice" in Singapore will have to pay for their own medical care, the government has confirmed.

    The change will take place from 8 December - as one of the most successful countries at rolling out a vaccine (85% double jabbed) struggles with a surge in cases.

    Singapore currently pays for all COVID-related care unless the virus was acquired overseas.

    The government says the unjabbed "make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive in-patient care and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources".

    Good idea on paper but where does it end?

    Should drug addicts, smokers, drinkers and fat people pay for their care? And what about people who need medical care through misadventure? People who drive recklessly etc?

    Once you go down that path there would be no end to it.
    We don't give alcoholics new livers.
    We do, as George Best would confirm if he was still alive.
    After proving sobriety. If the anti-vaxxers accept the vaccine as part of the treatment programme then give them the treatment.

    In a resource limited world the NHS should turn away those irresponsible and idiotic people who have refused life saving medication already. To my mind refusing the vaccine is a signal that a person doesn't want to be treated for COVID. We should accept that.
    It is a fundamental principle that consent can be changed by the patient at any time. Refusing the unvaxxed treatment would be quite unethical.

    Liver transplants in alcoholics, or hip replacements in morbidly obese are not refused as moral judgements, but rather due to higher risk of failure and complications.
    But its not unethical to tell kids they can't go to school, that people need to stay at home, or that people have to wear a mask on their face?
    Or to wear a seatbelt in a car or on a plane?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    Andy_JS said:

    Sherelle Jacobs is probably my favourite journalist at the moment. Couldn't agree more with this.

    "After 11 years of Tory rule, Britain is still run by a hypocritical Blairite elite
    The quangos and BBC continue to be dominated by a soft-Left establishment that the PM is too scared to tame
    Sherelle Jacobs"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/11/08/11-years-tory-rule-britain-still-run-hypocritical-blairite-elite/

    Really? I remember her as the most moronic commentator that I have heard on Any Questions.

  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    IanB2 said:

    Where do people get the idea that summer lasts for months? It’s normally a week or two in August, a week in July, and in a very good year a week or two in June and/or early September.

    I had three afternoons' sunbathing in the garden this summer. Three!

    Granted I was out of the country for a week when the UK had its best weather - always a bummer.

    (Probably shouldn't have said bummer given the posts downthread.)
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Excellent idea

    Singapore will force unvaccinated to pay for own medical care

    People "unvaccinated by choice" in Singapore will have to pay for their own medical care, the government has confirmed.

    The change will take place from 8 December - as one of the most successful countries at rolling out a vaccine (85% double jabbed) struggles with a surge in cases.

    Singapore currently pays for all COVID-related care unless the virus was acquired overseas.

    The government says the unjabbed "make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive in-patient care and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources".

    Good idea on paper but where does it end?

    Should drug addicts, smokers, drinkers and fat people pay for their care? And what about people who need medical care through misadventure? People who drive recklessly etc?

    Once you go down that path there would be no end to it.
    We don't give alcoholics new livers.
    We do, as George Best would confirm if he was still alive.
    After proving sobriety. If the anti-vaxxers accept the vaccine as part of the treatment programme then give them the treatment.

    In a resource limited world the NHS should turn away those irresponsible and idiotic people who have refused life saving medication already. To my mind refusing the vaccine is a signal that a person doesn't want to be treated for COVID. We should accept that.
    It is a fundamental principle that consent can be changed by the patient at any time. Refusing the unvaxxed treatment would be quite unethical.

    Liver transplants in alcoholics, or hip replacements in morbidly obese are not refused as moral judgements, but rather due to higher risk of failure and complications.
    But its not unethical to tell kids they can't go to school, that people need to stay at home, or that people have to wear a mask on their face?
    No, all those things are ethical in the correct context.
    Not for me they're not.

    Antivaxxers have made their choice, kids never chose to not be educated.
  • Options

    There's an extraordinarily overwrought piece in the Atlantic about a journalist's experience of testing positive for covid. It's written as if he had a near death experience but then says he's "probably been sicker 15 times as an adult".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/11/the-worlds-only-normal-until-you-test-positive/620653/

    Something akin to to the overwrought screeching about mask wearing?
    The hysterics are in charge now.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,182
    "We now have government by Burner Phone."

    https://twitter.com/jon_trickett/status/1423244612592939008?s=20

    Looking back, this was when it all changed. Everything. The narrative of politics, not just in the UK, not just in the West, but across the world, and maybe, just maybe, in other worlds. Some moments can be so pivotal the Fate of Galaxies hang upon them. This was one such moment. And we lived through it, All of us here.

    We will not see its like again
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Excellent idea

    Singapore will force unvaccinated to pay for own medical care

    People "unvaccinated by choice" in Singapore will have to pay for their own medical care, the government has confirmed.

    The change will take place from 8 December - as one of the most successful countries at rolling out a vaccine (85% double jabbed) struggles with a surge in cases.

    Singapore currently pays for all COVID-related care unless the virus was acquired overseas.

    The government says the unjabbed "make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive in-patient care and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources".

    Good idea on paper but where does it end?

    Should drug addicts, smokers, drinkers and fat people pay for their care? And what about people who need medical care through misadventure? People who drive recklessly etc?

    Once you go down that path there would be no end to it.
    We don't give alcoholics new livers.
    We do, as George Best would confirm if he was still alive.
    After proving sobriety. If the anti-vaxxers accept the vaccine as part of the treatment programme then give them the treatment.

    In a resource limited world the NHS should turn away those irresponsible and idiotic people who have refused life saving medication already. To my mind refusing the vaccine is a signal that a person doesn't want to be treated for COVID. We should accept that.
    It is a fundamental principle that consent can be changed by the patient at any time. Refusing the unvaxxed treatment would be quite unethical.

    Also, I personally think quite a few antivaxxers are probably suffering from some sort of mental illness so you'd have to work out which one's have refused the vaccine and are rational and which are suffering from mental illness, delusion etc.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sherelle Jacobs is probably my favourite journalist at the moment. Couldn't agree more with this.

    "After 11 years of Tory rule, Britain is still run by a hypocritical Blairite elite
    The quangos and BBC continue to be dominated by a soft-Left establishment that the PM is too scared to tame
    Sherelle Jacobs"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/11/08/11-years-tory-rule-britain-still-run-hypocritical-blairite-elite/

    Really? I remember her as the most moronic commentator that I have heard on Any Questions.

    Christ, and Isabel Oakeshott's been on!
  • Options
    tomfantomfan Posts: 21
    test
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sherelle Jacobs is probably my favourite journalist at the moment. Couldn't agree more with this.

    "After 11 years of Tory rule, Britain is still run by a hypocritical Blairite elite
    The quangos and BBC continue to be dominated by a soft-Left establishment that the PM is too scared to tame
    Sherelle Jacobs"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/11/08/11-years-tory-rule-britain-still-run-hypocritical-blairite-elite/

    Really? I remember her as the most moronic commentator that I have heard on Any Questions.

    Christ, and Isabel Oakeshott's been on!
    To be fair, I probably missed that one!
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,951
    “Have you been in an accident that wasn’t your fault?!” https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1458174146232438793
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    tomfan said:

    test

    Hello Welcome to PB.

    You've picked quite a night to join the conversation! :D
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,097
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    "We now have government by Burner Phone."

    https://twitter.com/jon_trickett/status/1423244612592939008?s=20

    Looking back, this was when it all changed. Everything. The narrative of politics, not just in the UK, not just in the West, but across the world, and maybe, just maybe, in other worlds. Some moments can be so pivotal the Fate of Galaxies hang upon them. This was one such moment. And we lived through it, All of us here.

    We will not see its like again

    Och, I'm sure there'll be another popular meme that will have passed you by.

    Missed opportunity to pun Galaxy phones catching fire btw.
  • Options

    There's an extraordinarily overwrought piece in the Atlantic about a journalist's experience of testing positive for covid. It's written as if he had a near death experience but then says he's "probably been sicker 15 times as an adult".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/11/the-worlds-only-normal-until-you-test-positive/620653/

    Something akin to to the overwrought screeching about mask wearing?
    The hysterics are in charge now.
    You're referring to all the overwrought screeching because the PM wasn't wearing a mask yesterday?

    Good example.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    edited November 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    tomfan said:

    test

    Hello Welcome to PB.

    You've picked quite a night to join the conversation! :D
    But started with a PB classic perennial!
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Stocky said:

    Vanilla forums is not living up to its name.

    A lurker has pointed out the most astonishing aspect of tonight's chat.

    I wasn't the instigator.
    You must be gutted
    Nah, I'm delighted.

    Though I'm toying with the headline this weekend of FuckeDUP!
    First things first - maybe a fresh thread might take us away from the Tim Farron debate?
    I can't be arsed, ahem.
    Have we reached the bottom of the barrel?
    Is there a fundamental problem with this thread?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    Toms said:

    I like the word "haruspication".

    P/S Cyclefree I got no reaction(s) either. What's it mean?

    No idea.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    edited November 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    “Have you been in an accident that wasn’t your fault?!” https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1458174146232438793

    Understand Geoffrey Cox phoned the Chief whip this morning - not clear what was said

    Probably something like 'You guys know second jobs are allowed and mine is all above board - so you're welcome for me being a distraction from some other shit. Now bugger off, every minute we speak deprives me of another £13'.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,718
    edited November 2021
    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Excellent idea

    Singapore will force unvaccinated to pay for own medical care

    People "unvaccinated by choice" in Singapore will have to pay for their own medical care, the government has confirmed.

    The change will take place from 8 December - as one of the most successful countries at rolling out a vaccine (85% double jabbed) struggles with a surge in cases.

    Singapore currently pays for all COVID-related care unless the virus was acquired overseas.

    The government says the unjabbed "make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive in-patient care and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources".

    Good idea on paper but where does it end?

    Should drug addicts, smokers, drinkers and fat people pay for their care? And what about people who need medical care through misadventure? People who drive recklessly etc?

    Once you go down that path there would be no end to it.
    We don't give alcoholics new livers.
    We do, as George Best would confirm if he was still alive.
    After proving sobriety. If the anti-vaxxers accept the vaccine as part of the treatment programme then give them the treatment.

    In a resource limited world the NHS should turn away those irresponsible and idiotic people who have refused life saving medication already. To my mind refusing the vaccine is a signal that a person doesn't want to be treated for COVID. We should accept that.
    It is a fundamental principle that consent can be changed by the patient at any time. Refusing the unvaxxed treatment would be quite unethical.

    Also, I personally think quite a few antivaxxers are probably suffering from some sort of mental illness so you'd have to work out which one's have refused the vaccine and are rational and which are suffering from mental illness, delusion etc.
    I find the topic frustrating. I know quite a few now and the theme is that they are libertarians who react against anything the state directs. It's in their DNA. (And then of course there are those that won't consent for religious reasons.)

    There was always going to be a decent percentage of the population who wouldn't consent. This was obvious from the start. If people didn't factor this limitation in when they consented to restrictions on liberty until vaccinations then they are fools.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Quite chastening to see homophobia alive and well on PB, in the shape of @squareroot2 . Don’t think we have had a open homophobe on here since the dark days of HD2. That bigoted Justin chap probably comes the closest, with his retrograde views on premarital sex.

    Sorry - Strongly Disagree

    All that @squareroot2 said is that he/she wasn't up for Anal Sex for him/herself.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HOMOPHOBIC

    It makes him vanilla at the worst.
    Thank you and quite right. Not for me tyvm.

    Not saying any more . Its the mindset that if you are not for us you are against us

    I am.taking some time off from the site. I hope Anabobaxina reflects on his comment... the site has got very nasty of late. I shall be scrolling past his comments. None are worthy of a rexponse..

    I saw nothing homophobic in your remarks. Horses for courses
    How is saying you disappove of homosexual sex not implying you are homophobic?

    He also made a rather dubious comment about being propositioned by homosexuals as if homosexuals were more preditory than heterosexuals. See @Northern_Al rather good response.
  • Options

    There's an extraordinarily overwrought piece in the Atlantic about a journalist's experience of testing positive for covid. It's written as if he had a near death experience but then says he's "probably been sicker 15 times as an adult".

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/11/the-worlds-only-normal-until-you-test-positive/620653/

    Something akin to to the overwrought screeching about mask wearing?
    The hysterics are in charge now.
    You're referring to all the overwrought screeching because the PM wasn't wearing a mask yesterday?

    Good example.
    No, I was more referring to twats conflating mask wearers with antivaxxers.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “Have you been in an accident that wasn’t your fault?!” https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1458174146232438793

    Understand Geoffrey Cox phoned the Chief whip this morning - not clear what was said

    Probably something like 'You guys know second jobs are allowed and mine is all above board - so you're welcome for me being a distraction from some other shit. Now bugger off, every minute we speak deprives me of another £13'.
    For shits'n'gigles I hope he told them that the PM's recent behaviour has been criminal and that triggering Article XVI to get away from that is misconduct in a public office.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,182
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Quite chastening to see homophobia alive and well on PB, in the shape of @squareroot2 . Don’t think we have had a open homophobe on here since the dark days of HD2. That bigoted Justin chap probably comes the closest, with his retrograde views on premarital sex.

    Sorry - Strongly Disagree

    All that @squareroot2 said is that he/she wasn't up for Anal Sex for him/herself.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HOMOPHOBIC

    It makes him vanilla at the worst.
    Thank you and quite right. Not for me tyvm.

    Not saying any more . Its the mindset that if you are not for us you are against us

    I am.taking some time off from the site. I hope Anabobaxina reflects on his comment... the site has got very nasty of late. I shall be scrolling past his comments. None are worthy of a rexponse..

    I saw nothing homophobic in your remarks. Horses for courses
    How is saying you disappove of homosexual sex not implying you are homophobic?

    He also made a rather dubious comment about being propositioned by homosexuals as if homosexuals were more preditory than heterosexuals. See @Northern_Al rather good response.
    I may have missed a remark. What exactly did he say about "homosexual sex"?

    Sincerely. If you can quote him that would be helpful
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “Have you been in an accident that wasn’t your fault?!” https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1458174146232438793

    Understand Geoffrey Cox phoned the Chief whip this morning - not clear what was said

    Probably something like 'You guys know second jobs are allowed and mine is all above board - so you're welcome for me being a distraction from some other shit. Now bugger off, every minute we speak deprives me of another £13'.
    With a voice like Geoffrey Cox's, I would have thought it was blooming obvious what was said. One one side of the conversation, at least.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,951
    A @conservatives vice chairman & MP for W. Aberdeenshire AndrewBowie_MP confirms to @bbcnews he intends to step aside from his party post to concentrate on the constituency and to campaign for the Union. He tells me this is 'in no way connected' to the events of last week
    https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1458183792439476230
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Toms said:

    I like the word "haruspication".

    P/S Cyclefree I got no reaction(s) either. What's it mean?

    No idea.

    A haruspex was a soothsayer by way of entrails.

    Probably connected.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    “Have you been in an accident that wasn’t your fault?!” https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1458174146232438793

    Understand Geoffrey Cox phoned the Chief whip this morning - not clear what was said

    Probably something like 'You guys know second jobs are allowed and mine is all above board - so you're welcome for me being a distraction from some other shit. Now bugger off, every minute we speak deprives me of another £13'.
    For shits'n'gigles I hope he told them that the PM's recent behaviour has been criminal and that triggering Article XVI to get away from that is misconduct in a public office.
    Let's not forget his low points as AG as well.
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    tomfan said:

    test

    Hello Welcome to PB.

    You've picked quite a night to join the conversation! :D
    But started with a PB classic perennial!
    Or perineal..
  • Options
    Does anyone really care about mask wearing? I took a crowded train from Kemble to Paddington yesterday. As far as I could see I was the only person wearing a mask.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,280

    Does anyone really care about mask wearing? I took a crowded train from Kemble to Paddington yesterday. As far as I could see I was the only person wearing a mask.

    It’s supposed to go over your mouth and nose.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Quite chastening to see homophobia alive and well on PB, in the shape of @squareroot2 . Don’t think we have had a open homophobe on here since the dark days of HD2. That bigoted Justin chap probably comes the closest, with his retrograde views on premarital sex.

    Sorry - Strongly Disagree

    All that @squareroot2 said is that he/she wasn't up for Anal Sex for him/herself.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HOMOPHOBIC

    It makes him vanilla at the worst.
    Thank you and quite right. Not for me tyvm.

    Not saying any more . Its the mindset that if you are not for us you are against us

    I am.taking some time off from the site. I hope Anabobaxina reflects on his comment... the site has got very nasty of late. I shall be scrolling past his comments. None are worthy of a rexponse..

    I saw nothing homophobic in your remarks. Horses for courses
    How is saying you disappove of homosexual sex not implying you are homophobic?

    He also made a rather dubious comment about being propositioned by homosexuals as if homosexuals were more preditory than heterosexuals. See @Northern_Al rather good response.
    Yes:

    "Quite a few, but not sure that there are that many on this site (apart from me, of course). It's a bit of a lads banter club on here, and she's not keen on laddish blokes.

    But I was trying to make a serious point that predatory gay men are hugely insignificant when compared to predatory heterosexual men, who ensure that attractive women face a considerable, even daily, amount of unwanted attention."

    I think that fairly obviously true. Though I did get approached by quite a lot of gay men when I was younger and better looking. Sometimes, such as in public lavatories it could be a bit uncomfortable being propositioned.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,631
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Quite chastening to see homophobia alive and well on PB, in the shape of @squareroot2 . Don’t think we have had a open homophobe on here since the dark days of HD2. That bigoted Justin chap probably comes the closest, with his retrograde views on premarital sex.

    Sorry - Strongly Disagree

    All that @squareroot2 said is that he/she wasn't up for Anal Sex for him/herself.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HOMOPHOBIC

    It makes him vanilla at the worst.
    Thank you and quite right. Not for me tyvm.

    Not saying any more . Its the mindset that if you are not for us you are against us

    I am.taking some time off from the site. I hope Anabobaxina reflects on his comment... the site has got very nasty of late. I shall be scrolling past his comments. None are worthy of a rexponse..

    I saw nothing homophobic in your remarks. Horses for courses
    How is saying you disappove of homosexual sex not implying you are homophobic?

    He also made a rather dubious comment about being propositioned by homosexuals as if homosexuals were more preditory than heterosexuals. See @Northern_Al rather good response.
    I may have missed a remark. What exactly did he say about "homosexual sex"?

    Sincerely. If you can quote him that would be helpful
    He said he did not approve of it.

    Later to defend his position he said 'Have you ever been propositioned?' as if being propositioned by a homosexual was some sort of disgusting thing. To which a number of us commented yes and we didn't come to any harm as a consequence of this traumatic event.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, Daughter and I were out in London last night. Restaurant and theatre packed. A most enjoyable evening and a much-needed break for Daughter. I am worried about the immense strain she is under.

    Anyway, on our way into town (separately from some other appointments) we both noticed one thing which annoyed us and will doubtless be dismissed by many on here as hyper-sensitivity. But here goes anyway.

    There is a long corridor on the interchange between the Piccadilly and Jubilee lines. On it there are various Pride posters with stories and photos from individuals. All very lovely. No objection to this at all.

    There were 29 posters. Only 7 of them were women and one of these was of a mother of a gay person. So only 6 gay women out of 29. 6 women. 22 men.

    Why so few women? Why so few gay women? Are their stories not worth telling?

    Daughter pointed out that whenever gay marriage is talked about or discussed it is very often accompanied by illustrations of gay men getting married. Not gay women. It annoyed her.

    Then on the Central line at Bond Street a big poster saying how London stands together against hate. Well, yes, who wouldn't be?

    The precise words used in the poster are these -

    "London stands together against hate directed at someone on our transport network because of race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or gender identity."

    All very lovely. But spot what's missing. "Sex" - a protected characteristic and probably one of the single biggest reasons for attacks on women and girls. The Mayor talks a good game about Violence against Women and Girls but he cannot bring himself to mention sex in this poster. He ignores the fact that it is a "protected characteristic" in law. He is happy to include characteristics which aren't. But something which is - and which is of great concern to women, especially in relation to the risks they face when travelling - is ignored.

    Why? Deliberate? Or just forgotten?

    These may seem like small matters. But this sort of unconscious overlooking of women, of the female experience is all too common, all too pervasive and, ironically, occurs at a time when diversity is trumpeted loudly by all sorts of people keen to promote their progressive credentials.

    I rather feel that the more people talk about diversity the less likely they are to listen to actual women or do anything practical to help them.

    One day we might have 29 posters with 22 of them of women, a few men and a token father. A 50/50 representation would be a start. And - imagine - those posters, those choices were all, I expect, signed off by lots of people in numerous meeting and none of those preparing and implementing this campaign noticed what two women at both ends of the age spectrum noticed in minutes while travelling through. Or cared about the message it sends.

    Grrr.....



    Its deliberate because they're trying to write off sex as something that even exists.

    "Gender identity" covers "sex" in his eyes so that's the end of the story.
    Yup, stonewall have redefined homosexuality as same gender attraction as opposed to same sex. Lesbians need to embrace ‘girldick’ or be labelled ‘TERFS’ if they don’t with all that entails.
    Not sure I understand all of that..are you saying the Stonewall position is that have to accept a man transitioning to a waman who still has their tackle.?
    That is indeed the position of some trans radicals (not sure about Stonewall). A lesbian who refuses to have sex with an untransitioned trans man in possession of male genitals is not expressing a sexual preference for women, she is being "transphobic"

    It is pure madness

    This is indeed Stonewall's position. They want the offence of rape by deception repealed in its entirety.

    Also see what Stonewall's CEO said in response to the outcry about the BBC article on some lesbians feeling pressured into sex with men claiming to be women.

    "Nobody should ever be pressurised into dating, or pressured into dating people they aren't attracted to. But if you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions."

    "how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions" .... ?

    This from the CEO of a gay charity. When the very essence of being gay is that you are writing off entire groups of people as potential sexual partners. It's as if she has forgotten what being gay, what being a lesbian actually means.

    As for the malicious dishonesty in seeking to equate a lesbian not wanting to have sex with a man with someone not wanting to have sex with someone of a different colour because they are a racist, words fail me.
    This kind of thinking is spreading. I was berated by a middle aged lefty woke lady friend the other day, for my preference for younger women. I tried to explain to her that it is just the way I am made. I can’t help it. It’s not a choice. In fact if I had a choice I’d go for the opposite - it would be easier if I fancied older women like her. It’s a buyers market

    However God made me like this. So be it

    That wasn’t good enough for her tho. My inability to fancy her was, she implied, a kind of bigotry. Certainly a moral failing
    I'd say with the 'older man chasing much younger woman' scenario there's been something of a shift in sentiment from 'good for him, randy old goat' and 'it's the way of the world innit' to 'urgh, sleazy'. On which topic I'm watching the Clinton/Lewinsky drama atm. Oh dear oh dear. Truly grisly behaviour from Bill. Maybe the smartest, most charismatic politician there has ever been but I think I'd have voted Guilty in his Impeachment. Absolute disgrace how he behaved.
    No, this wasn't an opinion on "man with young woman" as an item, this was her opinion that men who fancy younger women are wrong to do so, and they should fancy older women like her. She was denying that sexuality is intrinsic, and instead saying it is a moral choice we make, as to who we desire, which is absurd. I cannot force myself to have an erection with someone who doesn't turn me on

    As ever you duck your confused head and so, Whoosh, it goes right over
    I get your point - but you've ended up making a very pro-paedo argument.
    I really really REALLY haven't. And I strongly object

    I am saying that sexuality is innate, we are born gay or bi or straight or whatever. We don't get to choose. This leads to much misery, but it is better to accept it.

    This is absolutely not pro-Pedo, FFS. Pedophilia is a crime, and a vile, despicable crime at that. It ruins lives.

    But is a pedophile born a pedophile? Almost certainly. And it is this which makes them so dangerous. They cannot be "cured". It never goes away. Once discovered, they have to be watched for the rest of their lives.

    I am actually making the opposite argument to the one you think
    It's very likely in fact linked to some form of mental illness, as some preliminary research shows, and is indeed a different topic.
    This study suggests that it is not genetic, but it is intrinsic - pre natal - you are born with it. Possibly because of uterine imbalances

    "As scientists seek to understand how [pedophilia] develops, there is growing consensus that the origin is largely biological. This view is based in part on studies pointing to subtle physical traits that have a higher incidence among pedophiles.

    “The biological clues attached to pedophilia demonstrate that its roots are prenatal,” said James Cantor, director of the Toronto Sexuality Center. “These are not genetic; they can be traced to specific periods of development in the womb.”"

    Compelling paragraph


    "Learning to manage a drive as visceral, and often consuming, as sexual desire is possible, therapists say, but it cannot be shut off; nor can it be replaced, the way heroin can be swapped for methadone. Treatment can require drugs that reduce circulating testosterone and software that limits online browsing habits."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/29/us/pedophiles-online-sex-abuse.html
    Male paedophiles' best bet is probably to become a transexual female tbh with all the testosterone reduction it entails.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,182
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Quite chastening to see homophobia alive and well on PB, in the shape of @squareroot2 . Don’t think we have had a open homophobe on here since the dark days of HD2. That bigoted Justin chap probably comes the closest, with his retrograde views on premarital sex.

    Sorry - Strongly Disagree

    All that @squareroot2 said is that he/she wasn't up for Anal Sex for him/herself.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HOMOPHOBIC

    It makes him vanilla at the worst.
    Thank you and quite right. Not for me tyvm.

    Not saying any more . Its the mindset that if you are not for us you are against us

    I am.taking some time off from the site. I hope Anabobaxina reflects on his comment... the site has got very nasty of late. I shall be scrolling past his comments. None are worthy of a rexponse..

    I saw nothing homophobic in your remarks. Horses for courses
    How is saying you disappove of homosexual sex not implying you are homophobic?

    He also made a rather dubious comment about being propositioned by homosexuals as if homosexuals were more preditory than heterosexuals. See @Northern_Al rather good response.
    I may have missed a remark. What exactly did he say about "homosexual sex"?

    Sincerely. If you can quote him that would be helpful
    He said he did not approve of it.

    Later to defend his position he said 'Have you ever been propositioned?' as if being propositioned by a homosexual was some sort of disgusting thing. To which a number of us commented yes and we didn't come to any harm as a consequence of this traumatic event.
    Sorry but you need to present his actual quoted remarks
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    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Quite chastening to see homophobia alive and well on PB, in the shape of @squareroot2 . Don’t think we have had a open homophobe on here since the dark days of HD2. That bigoted Justin chap probably comes the closest, with his retrograde views on premarital sex.

    Sorry - Strongly Disagree

    All that @squareroot2 said is that he/she wasn't up for Anal Sex for him/herself.

    HOW THE FUCK IS THAT HOMOPHOBIC

    It makes him vanilla at the worst.
    Thank you and quite right. Not for me tyvm.

    Not saying any more . Its the mindset that if you are not for us you are against us

    I am.taking some time off from the site. I hope Anabobaxina reflects on his comment... the site has got very nasty of late. I shall be scrolling past his comments. None are worthy of a rexponse..

    I saw nothing homophobic in your remarks. Horses for courses
    How is saying you disappove of homosexual sex not implying you are homophobic?

    He also made a rather dubious comment about being propositioned by homosexuals as if homosexuals were more preditory than heterosexuals. See @Northern_Al rather good response.
    I may have missed a remark. What exactly did he say about "homosexual sex"?

    Sincerely. If you can quote him that would be helpful
    He said he did not approve of it.

    Later to defend his position he said 'Have you ever been propositioned?' as if being propositioned by a homosexual was some sort of disgusting thing. To which a number of us commented yes and we didn't come to any harm as a consequence of this traumatic event.
    Sorry but you need to present his actual quoted remarks
    "I doubt for most that male to male sex is an addition to a vanilla sex life as you put it. You should remember that people who do not approve of it are not necessarily homophobic. Its a side of life that just passes us by. Each to their own but no thank you."
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    NEW THREAD

    Thank God
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