Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

If Starmer goes Reeves is by far the best alternative – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 28 in General
If Starmer goes Reeves is by far the best alternative – politicalbetting.com

One thing I’ve been looking for in the coverage of the Labour conference is who would be the runners if for whatever reason Starmer ceases to be leader. With the pandemic totally dominating everything since the general election it has been a struggle for opposition politicians to get a look in.

Read the full story here

«13456710

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,526
    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,015
    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    I'll have what you're taking..... cracking fantasy though.
  • Rachel Reeves, PPE from Oxford, MSc in economics from LSE.
    Yvette Cooper, PPE from Oxford, MSc in economics from LSE.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,720
    edited September 28

    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    I'll have what you're taking..... cracking fantasy though.
    It does point to the weakness in the bet, though, which is we do not know when a vacancy will arise. 12/1 is a great price if Starmer goes tomorrow but he probably won't. As implied in my previous comment, Reeves is (superficially) a 10 years younger version of Yvette Cooper, whom many will have previously backed unsuccessfully or at least touted for the leadership.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,791
    I see Nick Symonds-Timothy, the Shadow Home Sec, has said the Tories are 'soft on crime and soft on the causes of time'.

    Not very subtle, but in fairness to him it worked the first time.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,791
    edited September 28

    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    I'll have what you're taking..... cracking fantasy though.
    It does point to the weakness in the bet, though, which is we do not know when a vacancy will arise. 12/1 is a great price if Starmer goes tomorrow but he probably won't. As implied in my previous comment, Reeves is (superficially) a 10 years younger version of Yvette Cooper, whom many will have previously backed unsuccessfully or at least touted for the leadership.
    Declaration of interest. I've just noticed I'm already on Reeves at 25/1. Someone must have put her up before.

    While checking that, I found a bet for Emma Raducanu for SPotY at 4/1. I really do not remember placing this bet which was probably a mistake when I was comparing US Open and SPotY prices and must have clicked the wrong window, though she's about 1/25 now so no harm done. First world problems!)
    Of my 22 headers so far on PB none have worked out as quickly as laying Dina Asher Smith for SPotY mere days before she got injured in the 100m semi (heats?). I think it was a good bet regardless, but I didn't see (or wish for) her to crash out so comprehensively and so quickly.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    In 2039 Starmer will be 77 (*). Isn't there a mandatory retirement age in the civil service, or are janitors exempt?

    (*) If my bleary-eyed early-morning maths is correct.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,526

    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    In 2039 Starmer will be 77 (*). Isn't there a mandatory retirement age in the civil service, or are janitors exempt?

    (*) If my bleary-eyed early-morning maths is correct.
    Younger than when Biden won the Presidency for the first time. So maybe he'll manage four terms.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 16,766
    Reeves is excellent.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    In 2039 Starmer will be 77 (*). Isn't there a mandatory retirement age in the civil service, or are janitors exempt?

    (*) If my bleary-eyed early-morning maths is correct.
    Younger than when Biden won the Presidency for the first time. So maybe he'll manage four terms.
    As janitor? ;)

    (I.e. it's about the only way he'll get a job in Number 10. I fear the Labour left will prevent any chance of him winning the next election. I would not be surprised if he's not even leader then. This conference has turned into a farce.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,894
    Nah.

    I’m biased towards her as a member of New College, but she simply doesn’t have the charisma to make it to the top rank. Too technocratic.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,476
    ...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508
    CNN: Worker shortages are a growing problem in Britain, which has a record 1 million job vacancies. The shortage of truck drivers has been exacerbated by the pandemic and Brexit, which resulted in tens of thousands of EU nationals leaving trucking jobs and other occupations in the United Kingdom.

    Johnson is preparing to deploy hundreds of soldiers to help address the fuel crisis, the Financial Times reported on Monday. The troops would be used to drive trucks, the newspaper said, under contingency planning known as "Operation Escalin."

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,476
    Shall we play a game? Project Fear bingo...

    The grim prophecies of #operationYellowhammer at a glance.. https://twitter.com/Matthew_Wright/status/1442399299900518401/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508
    La Repubblicca: Petrol shortages after Brexit: Britain warns the army

    The British government has put the military on alert to cooperate in fuel transport operations in light of the crisis that sees gasoline in the country. "A limited number of military tank truck drivers will be alerted and deployed if necessary to further stabilize the fuel supply chain," the Energy Department said in a statement.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    So after the hilarious chaos of the Labour Party Conference 2021, how can the Conservatives better it next week?

    Surely with a clown in charge, they can provide a higher magnitude of entertainment?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,476

    So after the hilarious chaos of the Labour Party Conference 2021, how can the Conservatives better it next week?

    Surely with a clown in charge, they can provide a higher magnitude of entertainment?

    A shadow cabinet minister resigned at the Labour conference.

    BoZo could top that by sacking Grant Shapps
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    A truck driver writes…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/infofoundationx/status/1441738825575768069

    (20-tweet thread, worth reading)

    TL:DR There’s a lot of problems in the industry, Ts and Cs are crap and companies treat you badly, most won’t sponsor people for training and testing, and many won’t hire the young and inexperienced.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508
    Die Welt: Ambulance clause, army reserve - the British fuel crisis escalates

    The UK has been struggling for weeks with the lack of truck drivers in the country. There are always no deliveries, from drinks at McDonald’s to meat for the catering trade to individual products in the supermarkets. At the end of last week, the problem reached petrol stations.

    The scarce fuel is now also endangering health care, warned Chaand Nagpaul, President of the British Medical Association. "There is a real danger that NHS employees will no longer be able to do their jobs," he said, referring to the national health service.

    After weeks of urging from hauliers and associations, Johnson and his ministers admitted late last week that they would make an exception to the strict immigration rules for truck drivers, among other things. 5000 short-term visas are supposed to help attract drivers from abroad. In addition, there are another 5,500 entry permits for workers in the food industry. "It's like trying to put out a campfire with a thimble full of water," said Ruby McGregor-Smith, President of the British Chamber of Commerce. Those concerned agree that there are far too few visas, they would arrive far too late.

    In the meantime, pharmacies are also concerned about the timely delivery of medicines. There, too, occasional deliveries have failed to materialize. The association is pushing for clear statements from the government as to how supplies can be ensured in an emergency.

    The Christmas roast is also far from guaranteed in view of the many delivery and personnel problems. "There will be fewer turkeys on supermarket shelves this year than usual," warned Kate Martin of the Traditional Farm Fresh Turkey Association.

    This is not only due to the drivers, but also to the lack of strength in meat processing. "The big processors can already see that they will not be able to process all meat."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821
    Sandpit said:

    A truck driver writes…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/infofoundationx/status/1441738825575768069

    (20-tweet thread, worth reading)

    TL:DR There’s a lot of problems in the industry, Ts and Cs are crap and companies treat you badly, most won’t sponsor people for training and testing, and many won’t hire the young and inexperienced.

    My wife's friend's husband is an HGV driver. Recently changed jobs from a general haulier to the Royal Mail. Earns more in 4 days than he used to do in 5. Probably better pension too. And isn't away 4 nights a week. Still some night driving involved and still HGV so not a loss to the cohort but shows how unpleasant his previous job was.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 2,822

    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    In 2039 Starmer will be 77 (*). Isn't there a mandatory retirement age in the civil service, or are janitors exempt?

    (*) If my bleary-eyed early-morning maths is correct.
    Now I'm thinking Good Will Hunting. The Trusster wakes up every morning to find someone has scrawled solutions to the country's ills all down the Number Ten staircase...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    Sandpit said:

    A truck driver writes…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/infofoundationx/status/1441738825575768069

    (20-tweet thread, worth reading)

    TL:DR There’s a lot of problems in the industry, Ts and Cs are crap and companies treat you badly, most won’t sponsor people for training and testing, and many won’t hire the young and inexperienced.

    "... wants to become a lorry driver and they realise they'll be pissing in milk bottles, washing with baby wipes and eating left over sausage rolls for breakfast"

    Sounds like long-distance lorry driving and long-distance walking are identical. Although left-over sausage rolls would be nice occasionally ... ;)

    That's a really good thread, thanks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,526

    Sandpit said:

    A truck driver writes…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/infofoundationx/status/1441738825575768069

    (20-tweet thread, worth reading)

    TL:DR There’s a lot of problems in the industry, Ts and Cs are crap and companies treat you badly, most won’t sponsor people for training and testing, and many won’t hire the young and inexperienced.

    "... wants to become a lorry driver and they realise they'll be pissing in milk bottles, washing with baby wipes and eating left over sausage rolls for breakfast"

    Sounds like long-distance lorry driving and long-distance walking are identical. Although left-over sausage rolls would be nice occasionally ... ;)

    That's a really good thread, thanks.
    Sounds like a job as a junior analyst at Goldman Sachs.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 6,910
    edited September 28
    Are trucks* themselves affected by the fuel (access) shortage? Or do they use different fuel?

    (Obviously not fuel tankers, but others delivering other stuff)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    I note Andy McDonald has got the Labour conference back focussed on fair pay for labour.
    He's called McDonald too which is the same as a big employer. Big opportunity for Starmer to shift the narrative away frm cervixes.

    OH....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    Investigations have identified a serious breach of good faith by Southeastern.

    To protect taxpayers’ interests and passengers I have ordered the Operator of Last Resort to urgently take over the running of rail services in the South East.


    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1442731050468270080?s=20

    R4 - SFO being called in
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,691

    Investigations have identified a serious breach of good faith by Southeastern.

    To protect taxpayers’ interests and passengers I have ordered the Operator of Last Resort to urgently take over the running of rail services in the South East.


    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1442731050468270080?s=20

    R4 - SFO being called in

    Blimey. Will be a fun morning in the industry.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508
    The Sun: QUEUE WHAT? Drivers face confusion over petrol crisis after day of panic, U-turns and Government chaos

    Boris Johnson and his team were accused of being “asleep at the wheel” as mile-long queues for fuel developed and fights broke out at petrol stations.

    the Petrol Retailers Association said troops will not be a magic “lever” to fix the problem and the chaos could yet last weeks.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,182
    alex_ said:

    Are trucks* themselves affected by the fuel (access) shortage? Or do they use different fuel?

    (Obviously not fuel tankers, but others delivering other stuff)

    Lorries use standard DERV. They can't use red diesel, as they're used on the roads. From memory, the rule is that if they pay road tax, they can't use red diesel. So as the supplies probably come from the same diesel tankage as used for road cars, and they'll run out at the same time.

    ISTR that the lanes lorries use at some petrol stations have special high-speed pumps, to allow them to fill quicker - but I think the nozzles are the same, as I used to use them to fill my Landy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    tlg86 said:

    Investigations have identified a serious breach of good faith by Southeastern.

    To protect taxpayers’ interests and passengers I have ordered the Operator of Last Resort to urgently take over the running of rail services in the South East.


    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1442731050468270080?s=20

    R4 - SFO being called in

    Blimey. Will be a fun morning in the industry.
    DFT Statement:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-over-running-of-lser-services-in-response-to-over-25-million-breach-of-franchise-agreement
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,351
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. 1000, that's not very panicky of you.

    As an aside, booted up my PS2 the other day. Remarkable that it's smaller, quieter, and has quicker load times than its successors (graphics way worse though, it was the last console before HDMI cables replaced SCART).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    Shapps says £25m of payments weren't DECLARED.
    Sounds a bit harsh to send in the OLR just for not posting or emailling a remittance advice ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,423
    Pulpstar said:

    Shapps says £25m of payments weren't DECLARED.
    Sounds a bit harsh to send in the OLR just for not posting or emailling a remittance advice ?

    Hold on it's the other way round. How do the government not know who they have sent £25 million to ?
  • Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508
    edited September 28
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Shapps says £25m of payments weren't DECLARED.
    Sounds a bit harsh to send in the OLR just for not posting or emailling a remittance advice ?

    Hold on it's the other way round. How do the government not know who they have sent £25 million to ?
    That's very worrying; normally they seem to know the people they are sending £millions to all too well already.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963

    tlg86 said:

    Investigations have identified a serious breach of good faith by Southeastern.

    To protect taxpayers’ interests and passengers I have ordered the Operator of Last Resort to urgently take over the running of rail services in the South East.


    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1442731050468270080?s=20

    R4 - SFO being called in

    Blimey. Will be a fun morning in the industry.
    DFT Statement:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-over-running-of-lser-services-in-response-to-over-25-million-breach-of-franchise-agreement
    Oh dear, that sounds like a rather serious allegation of financial impropriety - hence the SFO being called in. So where did the missing £25m end up?
  • Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Investigations have identified a serious breach of good faith by Southeastern.

    To protect taxpayers’ interests and passengers I have ordered the Operator of Last Resort to urgently take over the running of rail services in the South East.


    https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1442731050468270080?s=20

    R4 - SFO being called in

    Blimey. Will be a fun morning in the industry.
    DFT Statement:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-over-running-of-lser-services-in-response-to-over-25-million-breach-of-franchise-agreement
    Oh dear, that sounds like a rather serious allegation of financial impropriety - hence the SFO being called in. So where did the missing £25m end up?
    It was only resting in their bank account.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 3,035

    Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.

    Numeracy has never been vital to the left.

    What is far more important is the unproductive get paid far more than they are worth.
  • Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.

    Who could have been so far left they'd be demanding something so extreme as £15 an hour back in 2019 though?

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1194204454448500738
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    Sandpit said:

    A truck driver writes…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/infofoundationx/status/1441738825575768069

    (20-tweet thread, worth reading)

    TL:DR There’s a lot of problems in the industry, Ts and Cs are crap and companies treat you badly, most won’t sponsor people for training and testing, and many won’t hire the young and inexperienced.

    Not unique to the haulage industry by any means
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 310
    Hand on heart, Starmer is a mess isn't he?

    He inherited a poisonous party, to be fair. The Corbyn years were atrocious and that's a good reason why Labour cannot win an outright majority in one bound next time. I get it that he felt he needed to clean up Labour's act in order to be more presentable to voters.

    However, the way in which Sir Keir has set about the rebuilding is extremely clumsy. That's about as polite as I could be.

    And all the while he is out of touch with the very people he most needs to win back: his Red Wall deserters.

    Not disastrous. Not quite. But not far off.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    Fishing said:

    Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.

    Numeracy has never been vital to the left.

    What is far more important is the unproductive get paid far more than they are worth.
    Who are the unproductive?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 310
    I mean what is really irritating is that the tories are so so vulnerable to attack. Their incompetence, cronyism and the utter failure of Brexit leave them wide open to being shredded.
  • Heathener said:

    Hand on heart, Starmer is a mess isn't he?

    He inherited a poisonous party, to be fair. The Corbyn years were atrocious and that's a good reason why Labour cannot win an outright majority in one bound next time. I get it that he felt he needed to clean up Labour's act in order to be more presentable to voters.

    However, the way in which Sir Keir has set about the rebuilding is extremely clumsy. That's about as polite as I could be.

    And all the while he is out of touch with the very people he most needs to win back: his Red Wall deserters.

    Not disastrous. Not quite. But not far off.

    He signed up for a huge challenge as you say, but he’s never shown any passion for tackling it. His strategy (other than wait for Boris to implode, which isn’t necessarily a bad one) is pretty unclear, and his tactics in responding to events, party management, and political opportunities are woeful.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,284
    edited September 28
    Northstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Hand on heart, Starmer is a mess isn't he?

    He inherited a poisonous party, to be fair. The Corbyn years were atrocious and that's a good reason why Labour cannot win an outright majority in one bound next time. I get it that he felt he needed to clean up Labour's act in order to be more presentable to voters.

    However, the way in which Sir Keir has set about the rebuilding is extremely clumsy. That's about as polite as I could be.

    And all the while he is out of touch with the very people he most needs to win back: his Red Wall deserters.

    Not disastrous. Not quite. But not far off.

    He signed up for a huge challenge as you say, but he’s never shown any passion for tackling it. His strategy (other than wait for Boris to implode, which isn’t necessarily a bad one) is pretty unclear, and his tactics in responding to events, party management, and political opportunities are woeful.
    Vary the pronoun and are you talking about Starmer or Theresa May?
  • Reeves would get the PLP nominations but would never get passed the Labour membership. Starmer's reforms have more or less ensured the far-left never controls the party again, but the failure to get the electoral college through means that MPs will have to tailor their preferences to what the members will back. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
  • Fishing said:

    Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.

    Numeracy has never been vital to the left.

    What is far more important is the unproductive get paid far more than they are worth.
    I should feel a little sorry for Keir Starmer but I can't. He could have expunged the lunatics. Jezbollah gave him the opportunity as soon as he was elected leader. The halfwits on the left would have whined and would have done enough to also get binned off.

    How can the party present itself as a serious party of government when they have such a movement of people buried in the party. More than a quarter of conference delegates voted for anti-semitism. The unions and the lunatics demanding a £15 minimum wage.

    Ironically I liked one of @SouthamObserver 's tweets last night (celebrating the removal of the far left from the Shadow Cabinet) and one of my Labour friends started baiting me about me "coming home". Errrr no. I don't understand the party at all any more. And I think there are significant numbers of Tory voting ex Labour voters who feel the same.
  • My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
  • Northstar said:

    Heathener said:

    Hand on heart, Starmer is a mess isn't he?

    He inherited a poisonous party, to be fair. The Corbyn years were atrocious and that's a good reason why Labour cannot win an outright majority in one bound next time. I get it that he felt he needed to clean up Labour's act in order to be more presentable to voters.

    However, the way in which Sir Keir has set about the rebuilding is extremely clumsy. That's about as polite as I could be.

    And all the while he is out of touch with the very people he most needs to win back: his Red Wall deserters.

    Not disastrous. Not quite. But not far off.

    He signed up for a huge challenge as you say, but he’s never shown any passion for tackling it. His strategy (other than wait for Boris to implode, which isn’t necessarily a bad one) is pretty unclear, and his tactics in responding to events, party management, and political opportunities are woeful.
    Vary the pronoun and are you talking about Starmer or Theresa May?
    Ha! I was a big fan of T. May at the time, shows what my political judgement is worth!
  • Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.

    Who could have been so far left they'd be demanding something so extreme as £15 an hour back in 2019 though?

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1194204454448500738
    ROFL - oh dear God! OK so its not a minimum wage of £15 he's supporting, but even so.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 310

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Can we please stop belittling gender fluidity on this site? The gammon dismissal of a serious issue with complexity and nuance is pretty revolting and off-putting. It demeans this place as a forum of polite and gentle intellectual debate.

    If I say it's offensive you'll accuse me of being woke but yes it is offensive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508

    Fishing said:

    Good morning fuel hoarders!

    Talking about the Labour Party, I'm confused. In the resplendently perfect 2019 manifesto, it was His will that the minimum wage be £10 an hour. So how come a few years later Andy McWazzock quits in protest that its not £15 an hour and gets a cheering ovation from the Trotbune fringe meeting?

    Its almost as if the purpose in his flounce was only to try and damage the Labour Party.

    Numeracy has never been vital to the left.

    What is far more important is the unproductive get paid far more than they are worth.
    I should feel a little sorry for Keir Starmer but I can't. He could have expunged the lunatics. Jezbollah gave him the opportunity as soon as he was elected leader. The halfwits on the left would have whined and would have done enough to also get binned off.

    How can the party present itself as a serious party of government when they have such a movement of people buried in the party. More than a quarter of conference delegates voted for anti-semitism. The unions and the lunatics demanding a £15 minimum wage.

    Ironically I liked one of @SouthamObserver 's tweets last night (celebrating the removal of the far left from the Shadow Cabinet) and one of my Labour friends started baiting me about me "coming home". Errrr no. I don't understand the party at all any more. And I think there are significant numbers of Tory voting ex Labour voters who feel the same.
    The trouble is that while (the views of) many individual Tory politicians are repulsive, the Labour Party is utterly repulsive as an organisation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963

    Reeves would get the PLP nominations but would never get passed the Labour membership. Starmer's reforms have more or less ensured the far-left never controls the party again, but the failure to get the electoral college through means that MPs will have to tailor their preferences to what the members will back. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

    At the least the MPs will now understand their role in the process, and not nominate someone wildly unsuitable to ‘widen the debate’.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,351
    F1: Giovinazzi did the race without team radio, which wasn't ideal...
    https://twitter.com/Motorsport/status/1442480069553754115
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 51,979
    Although Germany’s election results leave Europe’s largest economy in a state of uncertainty, the big picture is already clear: Whoever the next chancellor will be, neither Olaf Scholz nor Armin Laschet will be able to provide the European Union with strong leadership.

    This is as much about their inherent political skills as the reality of the coalitions they will lead: made up of parties new to power, and — at the federal level — to each other. Internal friction and domestic politics will subtract from the chancellery’s focus and agency in Europe.

    To make matters worse, while it is no surprise that Chancellor Angela Merkel’s departure was going to impact the bloc’s leadership and coherence, her departure coincides with the run-up to French President Emmanuel Macron’s own elections next year.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-leadership-gap-olaf-scholz-chancellor-race/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,802

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
  • Although Germany’s election results leave Europe’s largest economy in a state of uncertainty, the big picture is already clear: Whoever the next chancellor will be, neither Olaf Scholz nor Armin Laschet will be able to provide the European Union with strong leadership.

    This is as much about their inherent political skills as the reality of the coalitions they will lead: made up of parties new to power, and — at the federal level — to each other. Internal friction and domestic politics will subtract from the chancellery’s focus and agency in Europe.

    To make matters worse, while it is no surprise that Chancellor Angela Merkel’s departure was going to impact the bloc’s leadership and coherence, her departure coincides with the run-up to French President Emmanuel Macron’s own elections next year.


    https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-leadership-gap-olaf-scholz-chancellor-race/

    So you're saying that if Olaf becomes German Chancellor he won't be able to bring back summer for the European Union?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,418

    Reeves would get the PLP nominations but would never get passed the Labour membership. Starmer's reforms have more or less ensured the far-left never controls the party again, but the failure to get the electoral college through means that MPs will have to tailor their preferences to what the members will back. It's a shame, but it is what it is.

    Not necessarily As a left-wing member, I want a leadership that is as left-wing as is consistent with a reasonable chance of election. I don't rule out Keir Starmer yet, and I wouldn't rule out Rachel Reeves either. Plenty of member who feel like me. As LabourList observes, both Labour to Win (centre-right in party terms) and Momentum were bemused how many CLP delegates don't identify with either, and were trying to work out their views issue by issue.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 4,511
    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    Now, I know I'm in a posh part of LA, but I haven't seen any shortages... yet.

    Today I filled up my (@Dura_Ace approved) car with petrol, without problems.

    My gut - and it's just a gut - is that there is a post Covid demand boom, that is causing supply crunches everywhere. But it's most acute in the UK, simply because Covid hit almost immediately following Brexit. It meant that those who could drive could earn great money in less stressful food delivery jobs, and the normal steady flow people through training was disrupted.

    And you know what, that's OK.

    No-one is going to starve. Things will adjust. The cost of trucking stuff around will probably increase. And yes, that will have an impact on the price we pay for things.
    That post was fine until you got to the 'it's ok' bit.

    No it isn't. If you lived here you'd realise that it really, really, isn't. We have horrendous multiple crises going on in the UK at the moment. You may not be a fan of the NHS, for instance, but the situation is absolutely dire. I know several people who have had cancer diagnoses missed during the past 18 months and are now in real trouble. Try getting a face to face appointment with a GP and it's nigh-impossible.

    And there are people who ARE on the bread line, especially with the cut in universal credit.

    I could go on but please don't post aloof messages from sunny LA trying to tell us it's all fine. That's as bad as the Metropolitan Elite Remainers who never, ever, got the issue in the ghost towns of the north and east of England.
    I think you go a bit far - we have some enormous challenges ahead, but we always do. The NHS has had winter crisis for as long as I can remember. There will never be enough money, time, medics to do all that could be done.
    I'd suggest you look elsewhere. We are not uniquely struggling. Things will improve. My guess is the fuel 'crisis' will be over by the weekend.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,526
    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    I think the "europe" they are refering to are Brtish shops and shelving. I think Brexit has done the EU shops a favour by bring back the drivers from GB to work in Europe. Is there a fuel situation in Europe?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    My brother still reporting queues for petrol in the West Midlands this morning
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    edited September 28
    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    The key word I am saying right now is fcuk... The price of domestic heating oil via my Oil syndicate has gone up from 42ppl to 51ppl in a few days. Madness and blatent profiteering.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
  • MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    Now, I know I'm in a posh part of LA, but I haven't seen any shortages... yet.

    Today I filled up my (@Dura_Ace approved) car with petrol, without problems.

    My gut - and it's just a gut - is that there is a post Covid demand boom, that is causing supply crunches everywhere. But it's most acute in the UK, simply because Covid hit almost immediately following Brexit. It meant that those who could drive could earn great money in less stressful food delivery jobs, and the normal steady flow people through training was disrupted.

    And you know what, that's OK.

    No-one is going to starve. Things will adjust. The cost of trucking stuff around will probably increase. And yes, that will have an impact on the price we pay for things.
    That post was fine until you got to the 'it's ok' bit.

    No it isn't. If you lived here you'd realise that it really, really, isn't. We have horrendous multiple crises going on in the UK at the moment. You may not be a fan of the NHS, for instance, but the situation is absolutely dire. I know several people who have had cancer diagnoses missed during the past 18 months and are now in real trouble. Try getting a face to face appointment with a GP and it's nigh-impossible.

    And there are people who ARE on the bread line, especially with the cut in universal credit.

    I could go on but please don't post aloof messages from sunny LA trying to tell us it's all fine. That's as bad as the Metropolitan Elite Remainers who never, ever, got the issue in the ghost towns of the north and east of England.
    I think you go a bit far - we have some enormous challenges ahead, but we always do. The NHS has had winter crisis for as long as I can remember. There will never be enough money, time, medics to do all that could be done.
    I'd suggest you look elsewhere. We are not uniquely struggling. Things will improve. My guess is the fuel 'crisis' will be over by the weekend.
    Our experience of the NHS with my poor Mum was shocking in its poorness... but now she is back hospital again in a different ward, we are buying choccies for the Nurses who have been A++
  • MattWMattW Posts: 10,776
    edited September 28
    Morning all.

    I see that SKS is being excoriated by his far left for not keeping a promise on a "£15 per hour" minimum wage.

    Where was this promise? I can't find it.

    And does setting a minimum wage at basically Median Wage level work?

    Median wage = £585 per hour. (1st Google answer)

    £15 per hour = £585 for 39 hour week.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 4,738
    Heathener said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Can we please stop belittling gender fluidity on this site? The gammon dismissal of a serious issue with complexity and nuance is pretty revolting and off-putting. It demeans this place as a forum of polite and gentle intellectual debate.

    If I say it's offensive you'll accuse me of being woke but yes it is offensive.
    I can't really accuse anyone of being woke when they use a racist term of abuse (gammon).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,523

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    .....until you broke her heart - when informing her she'd need to spend 37 years as a caterpillar first.....
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,473

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    Yet clearly some are. It may be a little unflattering but it is certainly not without truth in some cases.
  • MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    So you're attacking the person who was in the conversation for past remarks, rather than what was actually said at the time?

    I told a (true) story about how my daughter said she wants to be a butterfly when she grows up - and a joke was told in reply. Anyone who's had kids has probably had similar experiences, is that not something to talk about or joke about?
  • If you like fantasy economics Reeves is your girl.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 2,714
    edited September 28

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    Now, I know I'm in a posh part of LA, but I haven't seen any shortages... yet.

    Today I filled up my (@Dura_Ace approved) car with petrol, without problems.

    My gut - and it's just a gut - is that there is a post Covid demand boom, that is causing supply crunches everywhere. But it's most acute in the UK, simply because Covid hit almost immediately following Brexit. It meant that those who could drive could earn great money in less stressful food delivery jobs, and the normal steady flow people through training was disrupted.

    And you know what, that's OK.

    No-one is going to starve. Things will adjust. The cost of trucking stuff around will probably increase. And yes, that will have an impact on the price we pay for things.
    That post was fine until you got to the 'it's ok' bit.

    No it isn't. If you lived here you'd realise that it really, really, isn't. We have horrendous multiple crises going on in the UK at the moment. You may not be a fan of the NHS, for instance, but the situation is absolutely dire. I know several people who have had cancer diagnoses missed during the past 18 months and are now in real trouble. Try getting a face to face appointment with a GP and it's nigh-impossible.

    And there are people who ARE on the bread line, especially with the cut in universal credit.

    I could go on but please don't post aloof messages from sunny LA trying to tell us it's all fine. That's as bad as the Metropolitan Elite Remainers who never, ever, got the issue in the ghost towns of the north and east of England.
    I think you go a bit far - we have some enormous challenges ahead, but we always do. The NHS has had winter crisis for as long as I can remember. There will never be enough money, time, medics to do all that could be done.
    I'd suggest you look elsewhere. We are not uniquely struggling. Things will improve. My guess is the fuel 'crisis' will be over by the weekend.
    They don't seem to be struggling quite as much as we are. In terms of loss of life expectancy, Covid has hit the UK harder than many countries, and nowhere else has has people queuing for petrol. European supermarket shelves aren't as empty as ours, either. Pasta, chopped tomatoes and kidney beans almost all gone on my last shoping trip.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    Then she found out how long they live?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    You say someone with a cock and bollocks can be a woman. It's ridiculous.
    There’s no need to be rude.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 14,939


    Having seen maybe ten minutes of the Conference or news about it Rachel Reeves might just be Labour's best kept secret. The header is the first time I've seen her in action and she looks impressive. Modern and with presence. It doesn't speak well for Starmer's judgement that he thought Anneliese Dodds was the answer to his most important first appointment when he had a genuine talent to call on.

    Nonetheless I've still got hopes for Starmer. With a better team around him he'll start to look the part. But if the proverbial bus does arrive she's got a couple of advantages he doesn't have......

    Firstly the contrast with the lumbering Johnson couldn't be sharper and she could do what Angela Raynor tried but with the guile and wit not to sound like a fishwife and secondly Len McClusky would resign
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,015

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    Now, I know I'm in a posh part of LA, but I haven't seen any shortages... yet.

    Today I filled up my (@Dura_Ace approved) car with petrol, without problems.

    My gut - and it's just a gut - is that there is a post Covid demand boom, that is causing supply crunches everywhere. But it's most acute in the UK, simply because Covid hit almost immediately following Brexit. It meant that those who could drive could earn great money in less stressful food delivery jobs, and the normal steady flow people through training was disrupted.

    And you know what, that's OK.

    No-one is going to starve. Things will adjust. The cost of trucking stuff around will probably increase. And yes, that will have an impact on the price we pay for things.
    That post was fine until you got to the 'it's ok' bit.

    No it isn't. If you lived here you'd realise that it really, really, isn't. We have horrendous multiple crises going on in the UK at the moment. You may not be a fan of the NHS, for instance, but the situation is absolutely dire. I know several people who have had cancer diagnoses missed during the past 18 months and are now in real trouble. Try getting a face to face appointment with a GP and it's nigh-impossible.

    And there are people who ARE on the bread line, especially with the cut in universal credit.

    I could go on but please don't post aloof messages from sunny LA trying to tell us it's all fine. That's as bad as the Metropolitan Elite Remainers who never, ever, got the issue in the ghost towns of the north and east of England.
    I think you go a bit far - we have some enormous challenges ahead, but we always do. The NHS has had winter crisis for as long as I can remember. There will never be enough money, time, medics to do all that could be done.
    I'd suggest you look elsewhere. We are not uniquely struggling. Things will improve. My guess is the fuel 'crisis' will be over by the weekend.
    They don't seem to be struggling quite as much as we are. In terms of loss of life expectancy, Covid has hit the UK harder than many countries, and nowhere else has has people queuing for petrol. European supermarket shelves aren't as empty as ours, either. Pasta, chopped tomatoes and kidney beans almost all gone on my last shoping trip.
    BREXIT has really put us in a bad place.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    So you're attacking the person who was in the conversation for past remarks, rather than what was actually said at the time?

    I told a (true) story about how my daughter said she wants to be a butterfly when she grows up - and a joke was told in reply. Anyone who's had kids has probably had similar experiences, is that not something to talk about or joke about?
    Yes because you’re joining in the anti trans circle jerk. Isn’t it funny to make jokes about gender dysmorphia right??!

    We all know it isn’t a joke - its just an opportunity for some bigotry.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,257
    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I see that SKS is being unexcoriated by his far left for not keeping a promise on a "£15 per hour" minimum wage.

    Where was this promise?

    And does setting a minimum wage at about 40% (rough number) of Median Wage work?

    You know, if it is ever going to work it would be now when the labour market is incredibly tight and the supply of labour is more restricted than it was. Employers would need to focus on getting more out of their more expensive staff, even if it involved training them.

    I think that you need to be very careful with policies such as the NMW so as not to overdo it and cause unnecessary unemployment but you should also take advantage of situations such as we have right now. Doing so will transfer more of the burden of financing the low paid from in work benefits to where it belongs, on those that employ them. It is an opportunity to reduce inequality and reduce government spending. I am not sure about £15 but an increase substantially beyond inflation and well over £10 makes sense.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    You say someone with a cock and bollocks can be a woman. It's ridiculous.
    There’s no need to be rude.
    How was that rude in comparison to you saying we were unbecoming, undermining and belittling because of talking about butterflies and young children. You threw the first stone.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    edited September 28
    rcs1000 said:

    When Starmer retires after three terms in Number Ten in about 2039, I doubt Reeves will be in the running.

    You've been chatting to your Dad...

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    .....until you broke her heart - when informing her she'd need to spend 37 years as a caterpillar first.....
    I know a little girl of about 5 who insisted she was a mouse but on her birthday was an owl.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    You say someone with a cock and bollocks can be a woman. It's ridiculous.
    There’s no need to be rude.
    How was that rude in comparison to you saying we were unbecoming, undermining and belittling because of talking about butterflies and young children. You threw the first stone.
    I most certainly did not. I’m calling out outright bigotry and abuse and you’re hiding behind “oh it was just a joke”.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,802

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    You say someone with a cock and bollocks can be a woman. It's ridiculous.
    There’s no need to be rude.
    🤷‍♂️

    Women don't have cocks. I think that's a pretty uncontroversial statement of biological fact. That you're contorting yourself into a position where the phrase "her dick" becomes a reality shows just how far off kilter you are and just how much reality you've had to suspend ti support this belief.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,963
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I see that SKS is being unexcoriated by his far left for not keeping a promise on a "£15 per hour" minimum wage.

    Where was this promise?

    And does setting a minimum wage at about 40% (rough number) of Median Wage work?

    You know, if it is ever going to work it would be now when the labour market is incredibly tight and the supply of labour is more restricted than it was. Employers would need to focus on getting more out of their more expensive staff, even if it involved training them.

    I think that you need to be very careful with policies such as the NMW so as not to overdo it and cause unnecessary unemployment but you should also take advantage of situations such as we have right now. Doing so will transfer more of the burden of financing the low paid from in work benefits to where it belongs, on those that employ them. It is an opportunity to reduce inequality and reduce government spending. I am not sure about £15 but an increase substantially beyond inflation and well over £10 makes sense.
    Thankfully the market is doing a good job at the moment, of lifting many people above the minimum wage without needing any government intervention.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,508

    Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    Now, I know I'm in a posh part of LA, but I haven't seen any shortages... yet.

    Today I filled up my (@Dura_Ace approved) car with petrol, without problems.

    My gut - and it's just a gut - is that there is a post Covid demand boom, that is causing supply crunches everywhere. But it's most acute in the UK, simply because Covid hit almost immediately following Brexit. It meant that those who could drive could earn great money in less stressful food delivery jobs, and the normal steady flow people through training was disrupted.

    And you know what, that's OK.

    No-one is going to starve. Things will adjust. The cost of trucking stuff around will probably increase. And yes, that will have an impact on the price we pay for things.
    That post was fine until you got to the 'it's ok' bit.

    No it isn't. If you lived here you'd realise that it really, really, isn't. We have horrendous multiple crises going on in the UK at the moment. You may not be a fan of the NHS, for instance, but the situation is absolutely dire. I know several people who have had cancer diagnoses missed during the past 18 months and are now in real trouble. Try getting a face to face appointment with a GP and it's nigh-impossible.

    And there are people who ARE on the bread line, especially with the cut in universal credit.

    I could go on but please don't post aloof messages from sunny LA trying to tell us it's all fine. That's as bad as the Metropolitan Elite Remainers who never, ever, got the issue in the ghost towns of the north and east of England.
    I think you go a bit far - we have some enormous challenges ahead, but we always do. The NHS has had winter crisis for as long as I can remember. There will never be enough money, time, medics to do all that could be done.
    I'd suggest you look elsewhere. We are not uniquely struggling. Things will improve. My guess is the fuel 'crisis' will be over by the weekend.
    Having just returned from almost a month inside the EU, the situation here does seem unique. There aren’t any shortages in Italy, France, Germany, nor any reported suggestions of such. The only parallel I could find is that some hospitality businesses are struggling to find staff - ironically in once case at least because during the lockdown some of their staff left to retrain as drivers.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    You say someone with a cock and bollocks can be a woman. It's ridiculous.
    There’s no need to be rude.
    🤷‍♂️

    Women don't have cocks. I think that's a pretty uncontroversial statement of biological fact. That you're contorting yourself into a position where the phrase "her dick" becomes a reality shows just how far off kilter you are and just how much reality you've had to suspend ti support this belief.
    You’re entitled to your beliefs and they are entirely valid but there’s no need to be inflammatory and belittling for the sake of it. You know exactly what you’re doing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,880
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    Morning all.

    I see that SKS is being unexcoriated by his far left for not keeping a promise on a "£15 per hour" minimum wage.

    Where was this promise?

    And does setting a minimum wage at about 40% (rough number) of Median Wage work?

    You know, if it is ever going to work it would be now when the labour market is incredibly tight and the supply of labour is more restricted than it was. Employers would need to focus on getting more out of their more expensive staff, even if it involved training them.

    I think that you need to be very careful with policies such as the NMW so as not to overdo it and cause unnecessary unemployment but you should also take advantage of situations such as we have right now. Doing so will transfer more of the burden of financing the low paid from in work benefits to where it belongs, on those that employ them. It is an opportunity to reduce inequality and reduce government spending. I am not sure about £15 but an increase substantially beyond inflation and well over £10 makes sense.
    Thankfully the market is doing a good job at the moment, of lifting many people above the minimum wage without needing any government intervention.
    I’m still being paid below minimum wage 🤔
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,802

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    My two-year is very fluid. She identifies as a dinosaur, cat, fox, train and a car - all inside the space of a few minutes.

    Love it!

    Until a few months ago my five year old was saying that when she grows up she wants to be a butterfly.
    You need to get her on butterfly hormone therapy. Just teach her to say they key words and the tavistock will hand them over!
    You know this stuff is very unbecoming of you. I expected better of both you and @Philip_Thompson.

    You should read our debate last night if you want to see what a rational and respectful debate on trans issues looks like.
    Trans issues are serious but that's no reason to not have a sense of humour.
    There’s no joke here - its just blatant undermining and belittlement. Remember @MaxPB happily describes transwomen as “men in dresses”.
    You say someone with a cock and bollocks can be a woman. It's ridiculous.
    There’s no need to be rude.
    How was that rude in comparison to you saying we were unbecoming, undermining and belittling because of talking about butterflies and young children. You threw the first stone.
    I most certainly did not. I’m calling out outright bigotry and abuse and you’re hiding behind “oh it was just a joke”.
    No you're trying to cancel any opposite view because you realise just how ridiculous your own position is.
  • Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Meanwhile, an American perspective, which is obviously because of Brexit…

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-24/inflation-and-supply-shortages-mean-a-return-of-empty-shelves-and-panic-buying

    ”Walk around a supermarket in the U.S. or Europe and you will see some empty shelves once more. This isn’t due to people panic-buying toilet paper, as they did early on in the pandemic; rather it’s because supply chains are clogged at almost every stage between Asian factories and grocery stock rooms.

    “But rising prices and patchy availability mean it’s only a matter of time before shoppers start purchasing in bulk again — this time to avoid future sticker shock.

    “Supply lines are struggling as producers such as Vietnam, responsible for making everything from sneakers to coffee, are hurt by Covid restrictions. Surging virus cases and consumer demand are leading to congested ports. Shipping containers are in the wrong place. Sea freight costs are up tenfold. If goods do arrive at the destined ports, there are too few truck drivers to transport them to retailers. Shortages of workers to harvest and prepare foods are also adding to the pressures.”

    Now, I know I'm in a posh part of LA, but I haven't seen any shortages... yet.

    Today I filled up my (@Dura_Ace approved) car with petrol, without problems.

    My gut - and it's just a gut - is that there is a post Covid demand boom, that is causing supply crunches everywhere. But it's most acute in the UK, simply because Covid hit almost immediately following Brexit. It meant that those who could drive could earn great money in less stressful food delivery jobs, and the normal steady flow people through training was disrupted.

    And you know what, that's OK.

    No-one is going to starve. Things will adjust. The cost of trucking stuff around will probably increase. And yes, that will have an impact on the price we pay for things.
    That post was fine until you got to the 'it's ok' bit.

    No it isn't. If you lived here you'd realise that it really, really, isn't. We have horrendous multiple crises going on in the UK at the moment. You may not be a fan of the NHS, for instance, but the situation is absolutely dire. I know several people who have had cancer diagnoses missed during the past 18 months and are now in real trouble. Try getting a face to face appointment with a GP and it's nigh-impossible.

    And there are people who ARE on the bread line, especially with the cut in universal credit.

    I could go on but please don't post aloof messages from sunny LA trying to tell us it's all fine. That's as bad as the Metropolitan Elite Remainers who never, ever, got the issue in the ghost towns of the north and east of England.
    I think you go a bit far - we have some enormous challenges ahead, but we always do. The NHS has had winter crisis for as long as I can remember. There will never be enough money, time, medics to do all that could be done.
    I'd suggest you look elsewhere. We are not uniquely struggling. Things will improve. My guess is the fuel 'crisis' will be over by the weekend.
    They don't seem to be struggling quite as much as we are. In terms of loss of life expectancy, Covid has hit the UK harder than many countries, and nowhere else has has people queuing for petrol. European supermarket shelves aren't as empty as ours, either. Pasta, chopped tomatoes and kidney beans almost all gone on my last shoping trip.
    BREXIT has really put us in a bad place.
    It's quite obvious that it's making us all poorer, and this will manifest itself in various and sometimes unexpected ways. What else should we expect when we get rid of a large number of our most productive workers and make trade more difficult and bureaucratic for our businesses? It's not exactly rocket science.
This discussion has been closed.