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Can anyone explain the weird politics of mask-wearing? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    .
    HYUFD said:

    The key thing is all the main parties are committed to getting people double vaccinated and the vast majority of MPs across the chamber have been double vaccinated.

    Once you have been double jabbed it should be more personal choice if you want to wear a mask in the indoor space of the Commons, it is no surprise Labour MPs are more strict on mask wearing while Conservative MPs take a more relaxed view after vaccination as Labour is more the party of top down state direction and mandates

    Indeed. The party of the brave and the party of Covid quislings.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923

    Boris’s team feared Biden could feel “buyer’s remorse” over AUKUS due to French “brouhaha”. But at start of Oval meet he declared his support. Later agreed French can’t join + discussed widening pact. “F****** hell that went well” said a UK figure as they left.

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1441757021104066571?s=20

    Total Tossers, country falling to bits and all they care about is being able to fit the toilets in Aussie subs in 20 years.
  • Farooq said:

    I genuinely don't have one, I'm just asking questions. I'll be honest, I don't much like what I'm hearing.

    I also think the NHS isn't in a great place now to cope with the extra demand this policy will inflict. Oh, and there's the practicality. I've been treating this as abstract, but in concrete terms it'll take a time for infection rates to get up to cover everyone. I don't think it would be remotely done and dusted by December, and then you'll have only made the problem you were trying to fix so much worse.
    I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).

    The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.

    Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited September 2021
    tlg86 said:

    On the German election, I reckon another grand coalition but with the SPD having the top dog.

    If the parties are tied not impossible, which would be quite funny as there would be basically no change in government after all the hype other than Scholz replaces Merkel as Chancellor and Laschet replaces Scholz as Finance Minister and Deputy.

    If the SPD are clearly ahead though I expect the Union to go into opposition
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824

    oic

    I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
    What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll?
    Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited September 2021

    Macaroni cooked as normal in boiling water, drained and used as a bed for the stir fry mix.
    We do sometimes use tagliatelle in our own stir fry if the proper stuff is not available, but Mrs C grizzles a bit as she prefers the proper rice noodles. Anyway we have a mutton (not lamb) curry cooking (second half of last night's stew with the last of Mrs C's homegrown potatoes).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    oic

    I think it will be SPD/FDP/Grn or SPD/FDP/Linke at a push.
    There is no way the FDP will join a government with Linke, the Greens would be the third party
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    I don't think you understand how this works. Well over 90% of the adults in this country have antibodies already. There's bugger all room for the virus to spread without reinfections or hitting the vaccinated who are extremely protected (and doubly so after an infection).

    The virus is rapidly running out of people to infect. Pretty much just children who aren't open to the vaccine and had the bloody stupid bubbles earlier in the year.

    Every infection that happens now is quite one fewer that can happen in the winter. The more the merrier now.
    But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited September 2021
    dixiedean said:

    But the top down state direction is that it is personal choice.
    Not from Labour it seems, see London where Khan has kept the mask wearing mandate on the tube as Mayor.

    We have been double jabbed but both had to wear our masks on the underground this afternoon therefore
  • Bollocks.

    There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
    Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
  • Carnyx said:

    But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
    Not perfectly but its good enough.

    Reinfection rates are extremely low.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    edited September 2021
    dixiedean said:

    What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll?
    Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
    Still a grand coalition but with Laschet as chancellor.

    Remember too 2005 where Merkel was heading for a landslide early on but then chancellor Schroder slashed her lead and after polling day there ended up being the first CDU/CSU and SPD grand coalition and not the CDU/CSU and FDP majority she had hoped for.

    The Union are pushing hard amongst centrist voters fear of Linke joining the government if the SPD win big which could be enough to cut the SPD lead to nearly nothing tomorrow and force another grand coalition. Though still probably with Scholz as chancellor
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    malcolmg said:

    Total Tossers, country falling to bits and all they care about is being able to fit the toilets in Aussie subs in 20 years.
    Ever seen a submarine toilet, BTW? It has to work first time. Though they should know how by now, since Holland 1 in 190-wotsit.
  • Yes Philip, obviously that's why.....
    Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
  • Brentford 3 - 3 Liverpool FT

    Shame to drop 2 points, but still clear at the top of the table and Brentford deserve a point. Well done them. 👏
  • HYUFD said:

    There is no way the FDP will join a government with Linke, the Greens would be the third party
    Historically the FDP has been willing to go into coalition with just about anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbin or the left of Martin Bormann. Indeed, they are THE quintessential Party of Government for the Bundesrepublik.

    No doubt they'd prefer NOT to have Linke as governmental partners, but also doubt that "no way" correctly describes the FDP position.
  • Wow.

    Brentford 3 - 3 Liverpool

    Will be a shame to drop points if we can't get a fourth, but Breford deserve a point as it stands.

    Blimey. That is some result.
  • Blimey. That is some result.
    Amazing game to watch
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    Is there a market on when Merkel actually goes? Could be quite fun.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608

    Bollocks.

    There's no real shortage in this country either, but there's a media-induced panic fuelled by those with an agenda to push. That's it.
    I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.

    But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333

    Historically the FDP has been willing to go into coalition with just about anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbin or the left of Martin Bormann. Indeed, they are THE quintessential Party of Government for the Bundesrepublik.

    No doubt they'd prefer NOT to have Linke as governmental partners, but also doubt that "no way" correctly describes the FDP position.
    Except Linke are not right of Corbyn.

    They will go into government with the Union or the SPD or at a push the Greens, they would not go into government with the anti business and ex Stalinist Linke
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Indeed. Lemmings queueing at the petrol station because of a media-induced panic.
    If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
  • tlg86 said:

    Is there a market on when Merkel actually goes? Could be quite fun.

    If it takes as long as last time, she'll still be there when the French take over the European Council Presidency, so she could still get in the way of Macron's plans.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Ever seen a submarine toilet, BTW? It has to work first time. Though they should know how by now, since Holland 1 in 190-wotsit.
    Like the $400 ashtray on the West Wing.

    Edit forgot the link. https://youtu.be/7R9kH_HOUXM
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    dixiedean said:

    What do folk think it will be if the Union surprise and top the poll?
    Germany is notorious for swingback to the government. They always outperform the polls. Which have been closing.
    I believe the CDU underperformed the polls in 2017.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824
    edited September 2021

    Brentford 3 - 3 Liverpool FT

    Shame to drop 2 points, but still clear at the top of the table and Brentford deserve a point. Well done them. 👏

    Although Brighton can now go top with a win at Palace on Monday. What odds could we have got on that?
    Shaping up to be a good season. No one looking outstanding. Some surprisingly competitive.

  • Danny Altmann
    @Daltmann10
    ·
    6h
    I’m now officially in post-Brexit wild-West. No HGV drivers, no petrol: queued most of the morning for petrol. Got near the front and they said none left. Man behind me was furious and started punching the guard. Became a melee of 8-10 men on the ground, punching and kicking
  • IshmaelZ said:

    If you are in charge of a panic, you own it. If nobody had panicked at Hillsborough, not one person would have died. So what?
    I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.

    A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.

    Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.

    Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
  • tlg86 said:

    It would be nice if SKS called out this nonsense.
    It might be that SKS has put it in the too hard basket. Most voters won't know what he is talking about and for those who are paying attention, HMG has just announced new exemptions on either medical or compassionate grounds.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,333
    justin124 said:

    I believe the CDU underperformed the polls in 2017.
    So did the SPD, the FDP and AfD however outperformed most final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_German_federal_election
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923

    They can shield, or wear an FFP3 mask, or take their chances.

    Same as anyone else.

    EDIT: Oh and they should be vaccinated. The vaccine is available to pregnant women already.
    What a pompous arsehole you are.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,800
    edited September 2021

    I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.

    But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
    I do not disagree with that but as I said before HMG's opposition has decided to fight it's own internal battles nobody outside cares about, and is giving Boris a free pass

    I do expect Boris will suffer in the next few polls but then at this time in the cycle and with this crisis labour should be out of sight
  • I am not sure you are entirely right, or even right at all, come to think of it.

    But that matters not a jot. The optics today look horrible for the Government (and for Brexit) whoever is to blame.
    I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    So did the SPD, the FDP and AfD however outperformed most final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_German_federal_election
    Indeed so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,063

    But two years ago we as a society couldn't give a monkey's about the risk of spreading flu in crowded settings. Now that vaccination has reduced the threat from Covid to roughly match that from flu, why should we take measures that were considered unnecessary in the past?
    People may have reassessed their willingness to bear the costs of such a cavalier attitude to even the flu as a result of rethinking how much they can unburden the NHS by taking a few additional precautions.

    I don't say I am doing that. but I'm not surprised it would be advocated.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,454
    dixiedean said:


    Although Brighton can now go top with a win at Palace on Monday. What odds could we have got on that?
    Shaping up to be a good season. No one looking outstanding. Some surprisingly competitive.
    Leicester having a poorish start. Good going forward, but Evans and Fofana out as our two best centrebacks is leaving us far too leaky. Vardy looking great today, apart from the own goal.

    Burnley look relegation fodder this year. Cornet was their best player and went off with a hamstring not long after his goal.
  • malcolmg said:

    What a pompous arsehole you are.
    Hello pot. I'm kettle. You're black.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,339
    edited September 2021

    I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
    I only agree with you on fuel, Philip. I'm sure this is a fake shortage. Reminiscent of Toilet rolls in 2020. The shortages of food and other materials etc is another matter.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I'm not in charge. But nor is anyone dying.

    A bunch of idiots are being stupid. People may be inconvenienced. By this time next week the petrol stations will be pretty much back to normal and the idiots will still be sitting on pretty full tanks.

    Thankfully panic buying isn't like Hillsborough. What an absurd suggestion.

    Personally I think the solution should be for fuel stations to add 20p a litre to the price of petrol until this hysteria calms down.
    I've had to drive/be driven to A&E twice in the last two weeks (don't ask. Horses.) Both times, a choice of drive yourself, or wait 3 hours for an ambulance. No fuel, no self drive option. Presiding over a fuel panic puts the government in breach of its primary duty to keep the citizens safe.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824
    HYUFD said:

    So did the SPD, the FDP and AfD however outperformed most final polls

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_German_federal_election
    Yes. I am wrong. Goddamn reading, recalling and reciting a fact without checking.
    Keep this up and I'll be on the front bench.
    Although admitting I am wrong probably has me barred.
  • malcolmg said:

    What a pompous arsehole you are.
    I am sure there was a poster with a similar name this morning decrying those who get easily offended.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,941
    Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608

    I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
    Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.

    Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
  • geoffw said:

    Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?

    In which case the first panickers spending 2 mins to fill up are surely rational as well as 2 mins is less stressful than 2 hours with the potential for failure and or a punch up at the end?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    geoffw said:

    Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?

    ...or resign oneself to taking the bus for the next week.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,941

    In which case the first panickers spending 2 mins to fill up are surely rational as well as 2 mins is less stressful than 2 hours with the potential for failure and or a punch up at the end?
    Nice forward reduction.

  • geoffw said:

    Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?

    QTWAIN.

    If you have half a tank of petrol and that's going to get you through another week then there's no reason whatsoever to top that tank up to full now. Because within a few days the panic buying morons tanks will all be full and the petrol stations will have been refuelled.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    Farooq said:

    I wonder how many of them have sneaked out to fill up and not admitted it.
    I went filled up yesterday as I was pretty low and need my car tomorrow. But I wouldn't have bothered if there had been much of a queue.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824
    Farooq said:

    I wonder how many of them have sneaked out to fill up and not admitted it.
    They are panic buying morons.
    I am just nipping out to be on the safe side.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    Where's Leon? Wasn't he was always advocating that mask wearing should become a permanent social convention?

    No
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,941

    ...or resign oneself to taking the bus for the next week.
    What did the blessed Margaret say about people over 25 who go by bus?

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    geoffw said:

    Can we agree that even if the first panickers are irrational, once the panic has started it makes sense to join in?

    No. I have now officially despaired of getting that achingly simple point across.

    But one last time

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    geoffw said:

    What did the blessed Margaret say about people over 25 who go by bus?

    ...please remind me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    Leon said:

    No
    I think it was Eadric or Lady G. not Leon.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,941

    ...please remind me.
    "Margaret Thatcher once said anyone on a bus over the age of 25 is a failure,”

    Jeremy Corbyn, 25 April 2019

    But fullfact says it's apocryphal.
    https://fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/

  • ...please remind me.
    Fake news anyway? Perhaps...

    https://fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    Bars, clubs and pubs in London are getting rid of those hideous plastic barriers.

    Good

    This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result
  • Anyone know what time the Joshua fight is likely to actually start? Weighing up whether it is worth paying for, and thinking not if it clashes with the Ryder Cup, although that does depend on Europe hanging in there.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I don't think it looks terrible at all. Everyone I've spoken to about it in real life is making fun of the panic buying morons who are behind this.
    The hilarity must be off the scale, but does your car remain stationary in a distinctively ribtickling way if it is out of fuel because of panic buyers rather than let's say tanker driver shortages, or is the result indistinguishable?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608

    Fake news anyway? Perhaps...

    https://fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/
    geoffw said:

    "Margaret Thatcher once said anyone on a bus over the age of 25 is a failure,”

    Jeremy Corbyn, 25 April 2019

    But fullfact says it's apocryphal.
    https://fullfact.org/news/margaret-thatcher-bus/

    Thanks
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    geoffw said:

    What did the blessed Margaret say about people over 25 who go by bus?

    Over 30, and it wasn't her.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,689
    Leon said:

    Bars, clubs and pubs in London are getting rid of those hideous plastic barriers.

    Good

    This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result

    Yeah, the Sainsbury's near my parents has got rid of it all and all of their one way systems. I wish they'd do that for the one near me. It was almost like going into a time warp because almost none of the people or staff were wearing masks. Outer London has got this figured out. This is a very wealthy middle class part of it too, I just think people have stopped giving a fuck. Only a few virtue signallers on here say they will keep wearing them but I suspect the reality is quite different.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,755
    Turns out that Johnson's oven ready deal is looking more and more like a dog's breakfast with each passing day.
  • Of course it does! In exactly the same way it looked terrible for the Blair Government in 2000.

    Whether it moves the polls is another matter. If it doesn't, Johnson is the second coming, and the Almighty is a Conservative.
    This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.

    This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.

    Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
  • Leon said:

    Bars, clubs and pubs in London are getting rid of those hideous plastic barriers.

    Good

    This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result

    Think its just the flu and covid virus that kill 1000s in the UK? HIV is hundreds and imagine that is next?

    As for the perspex cant say it bothers me in restaurants but once you get to clubs they are out of place and pointless giving the mixing generally.
  • I think it was Eadric or Lady G. not Leon.
    I apologize to Leon in that case - crazy confusion on my part!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    Tres said:

    Turns out that Johnson's oven ready deal is looking more and more like a dog's breakfast with each passing day.

    It was a turkey!
  • Tres said:

    Turns out that Johnson's oven ready deal is looking more and more like a dog's breakfast with each passing day.

    And a hellish price to turn the oven on and all.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,454
    Tres said:

    Turns out that Johnson's oven ready deal is looking more and more like a dog's breakfast with each passing day.

    No one said how long it needed to cook, or how edible it would be...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    I think the problem is that actually we are never going to be out of the woods. This is probably about as good as it is ever going to get but with a seasonal cycle imposed over the top. Just like seasonal flu. As such people have to decide whether they are going to make permanent changes to their lifestyle - masks, avoiding certain events etc - or if they are just going to accept that we have had one more small risk added to the many that already existed and that they want to get on with their lives without constantly worrying about about all the many things that may bring them down.
    Absolutely right: as you are, quite often
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Lets put it like this. When I go to Germany next month it'll be mandatory mask wearing with pox rates less than a quarter they are here. So when I then fly into London for the few days that follow it would be illogical to adopt the Tories' view and say "no risk, no mask".

    Yes I have been double jabbed. But pox is still running rampant and still making people ill and still giving double-jabbed people like my mum long Covid.

    Well fuck that. If me wearing a mask makes some people on the blue side of politics react, I honestly don't care. We will get through this pandemic. We haven't yet.

    The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,941
    IshmaelZ said:

    No. I have now officially despaired of getting that achingly simple point across.

    But one last time

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
    El preso número nueve ya lo van a confesar
    ...
    El preso número nueve era un hombre muy cabal

    But don't despair! Tit for tat does quite well (in repeated PDs).

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824
    Leon said:

    Bars, clubs and pubs in London are getting rid of those hideous plastic barriers.

    Good

    This virus will kill 1000s every year. So do many viruses, we don't live our lives in perspex boxes as a result

    Sitting behind a screen was all the rage in the 80's. Betting shops, job centres, banks, cinema ticket booths all had them.
    Then, in the 90's they disappeared in the main. Why? Cos they were customer unfeiendly.
  • This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.

    This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.

    Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
    And let's not forget that the police did feck all about those illegally blocking the refineries and fuel depots.

    Strangely, when it is environmental protesters outside those same facilities they are straight in the back of the van.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608
    Charles said:

    The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
    Even if you, mask-free, cough all over me and it results in my untimely demise?

    Nice!
  • Charles said:

    The vast majority of people on the blue side think you should be free to wear whatever you damn well like. They just don’t want you telling them what to wear.
    Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.

    I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.

    People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
  • HYUFD said:

    The key thing is all the main parties are committed to getting people double vaccinated and the vast majority of MPs across the chamber have been double vaccinated.

    Once you have been double jabbed it should be more personal choice if you want to wear a mask in the indoor space of the Commons, it is no surprise Labour MPs are more strict on mask wearing while Conservative MPs take a more relaxed view after vaccination as Labour is more the party of top down state direction and mandates

    Quite so. You wouldn't get a Conservative government giving 'top down state direction and mandates', would you? Wonder what's been going on for the last 18 months?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited September 2021
    Leon said:

    Absolutely right: as you are, quite often
    Hypocodrical living is no living imo- What the hell are labour mps doing with masks on given this is the best situation it will be ever regards covid. They are basically saying they think masks should be worn for ever and worryingly will probably therefore impose it talaban like if they ever get into power.
    As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me

    Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,838

    Yes its amusing that Rochdale has been moaning about the fact that a mask mandate isn't legally mandated - then he thinks him wearing a mask will get a reaction? What twisted projectionism.

    I couldn't care less what other people wear. Its a shame if people feel they need to wear a mask, and I think its silly - but its their choice and I'll respect that.

    People can wear a mask until they die decades from now for all I care. Some of Asian origin did pre-pandemic. Just don't expect others to do so.
    You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
  • Tory MPs and the loons on the Tube/buses are simply exerting their precious human right to spread the virus to the vulnerable and elderly. That's if they don't think it's a hoax and if they don't think the vaccine gives you the virus and takes control of your mind! Sad and selfish morons.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,771
    @CarlottaVance

    Do you have any feel whether there will be another fishing explosion in Jersey next week?

    I see that the "extended transition period" seems to be at its end on Sept 30, and the Jersey fishing authorities seem to be leaving it to the night before to hand out its 30 day notices, and the French Govt is setting up it's soapbox.

    https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/french-pm-blames-fishing-row-lack-political-will/
    https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/minister-considering-two-plan-bs-avoid-further-extension-fishing-amnesty/

    Can we expect more throwing out of toys and blood-curdling threats from Mons. Macron? Or is this going to get resolved by Jersey playing doormat, or will they take the opportunity to have a non-destructive-of-the-seabed licensing regime, and enforce it?


  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,850
    edited September 2021
    Mariner said:

    Tory MPs and the loons on the Tube/buses are simply exerting their precious human right to spread the virus to the vulnerable and elderly. That's if they don't think it's a hoax and if they don't think the vaccine gives you the virus and takes control of your mind! Sad and selfish morons.

    You are the loon if you think we shoudl all wear a mask for ever and a day
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923
    Carnyx said:

    But the antibodies don't protect completely. It's not mumps. So it's not running out of people in that sense.
    Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867
    edited September 2021
    malcolmg said:

    Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
    I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.

    *Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923

    Hello pot. I'm kettle. You're black.
    Racist to boot , a charmer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    Hypocodrical living is no living imo- What the hell are labour mps doing with masks on given this is the best situation it will be ever regards covid. They are basically saying they think masks should be worn for ever and worryingly will probably therefore impose it talaban like if they ever get into power.
    As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me

    Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
    Yes indeed

    London is certainly not going Puritan. It's rocking again tonight - have just been out

    But I do worry about the small towns and cities, around the UK, which are somewhat older and more prone to caution. This is not condescension, most of my family live in place like this

    We have to accept we have a new endemic respiratory virus which will probably shorten life expectancy by a few months, for a decade or two. We have really good vaccines, but they aren't perfect - yet. Although they will get better, as will the treatments

    There it is. The young will be fine, the healthy will probably be fine, fat people should REALLY lose weight, the old are vulnerable, but not much more vulnerable than they were

    We all die. Your chances of dying in any given year have increased by 0.1% (or whatever). It is no cause to upend society.

    However, ON TOPIC I think we should rightly adopt the Asian courtesy that if you have a suspected cold or the Flu, you wear a mask TO PROTECT THOSE AROUND YOU. It is remarkable we don't do this already
  • BTW, they finished counting votes yesterday, Friday, in Canada re: 2021 Federal General Election; so far no recounts requested.

    Final tally:

    Liberals 159 seats (+2 vs 2019) 32.6% vote share (-0.5% vs 2019)
    Conservatives 119 (-2) 33.7% (-0.6%)
    Bloc Québécois 33 (+1) 7.6% (-)
    New Democrats 25 (+1) 17.8% (+1.8%)
    Greens 2 (-1) 2.3% (-4.3%)
    Peoples Party 0 (-) 5.0% (+3.4%)
    Independent/Other 0 (-1) 0.6% (-5% or thereabouts!)

    Grits picked up 2 seats from Tories in Alberta (one each Calgary & Edmonton) and 3 in BC (in suburban Vancouver); they also took 2 Ontario ridings from CPC but lost three the other way. In addition, the 2019 Green victor in New Brunswick (Fredericton) narrowly retained her seat . . . as a Liberal. Grits also gained a Vancouver seat that was won in 2019 by a former Lib & ex-minister who broke with Trudeau and retained her seat that election as an Independent. AND they won two seats from the Dippers: one in Hamilton, Ontario, another in St Johns, Newfoundland ( NDP incumbents NOT standing for re-election).

    On other side of ledger Liberals lost one Quebec seat to BQ (suburban Montreal). And they punted away an otherwise safe seat in Kitchener, Ontario to the Greens, because they allowed an incumbent accused of sexual harassment to stand for re-election, then dumped him AFTER the deadline to file a replacement. Much worse was the loss of three seats in Atlantic Canada to the Tories: two in Nova Scotia, one in New Brunswick, and - most surprising - one in Newfoundland, which was very close and one of the last ridings decided.

    As noted, Tories gained three seats from Grits in Ontario (one in Greater Toronto, two in eastern Ontario), partly offsetting two in the province lost to Liberals. But Conservatives lost two seats to NDP (one in Edmonton, Alberta, other in suburban Vancouver, BC).

    Greens retained the Vancouver Island, BC seat of their former leader, but lost another Island riding to the Liberals (last race declared, between Lib and Con; Green incumbent was 3rd). And while they picked up the Kitcherner seat thanks to defenestration of sitting, disgraced Liberal, they punted away the Fredericton seat - their first and so far sole victory in Atlantic Canada) when the current Green leader effectively drove the Green NB MP out of the party and into the Liberal caucus. The Green vote share plummeted - despite rising concern re: climate change - in large measure due to leadership snafu, but also because party did NOT run anywhere near full slate of candidates. Oh, and their Clueless Leader lost her own riding big-time.

    Finally, the Peoples Party of Canada was the mouse that squeaked, though making sufficient noise and taking enough votes from the Conservatives (esp. in the Prairie Provinces) to put Erin O'Toole's continued leadership in jeopardy. Though worth noting that PCC leader also lost his seat (which he represented before 2019 as a Tory) by even greater margin than last election.
  • Chris said:

    You've made it amply clear you don't give a toss about anyone.
    I do give a toss about people which is why I think the vulnerable who need protection should get the advice to wear a proper FFP3 mask that actually does the job instead of a cloth mask placebo.

    As for antivaxxers - they've made their choice. Its not my job to be masked up to protect others from their own decisions. Why should it be? 🤷‍♂️
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,824

    Hypocodrical living is no living imo- What the hell are labour mps doing with masks on given this is the best situation it will be ever regards covid. They are basically saying they think masks should be worn for ever and worryingly will probably therefore impose it talaban like if they ever get into power.
    As a society we are getting more puritan by the day - the bbc website is featuring if the US golfers (who are not playing ) should be drinking beer on the 1st tee at the ryder cup by featuring a tweet saying "is it a good look" .Apart from that being an annoying phrase that is only beaten for annoyingness by "not good optics" they are thrashing the europeans so if they want to have a drink its fine for me

    Sorry for the slight rant but getting annoyed by a world and Britain that is going insular (working at home is seemingly great for everyone ) , risk adverse ,puritan and robotic by the day
    You seem to be concerned about people exercising freedom of choice.
    Or rather that their choices are different to yours.
    Which is strange, cos I am simultaneously hearing that those who won't wear masks don't care what others choose to do.
    But they seem to. Deeply.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923
    ydoethur said:

    I think you’re just a bit harsh there Malc. I mean, you can be a bit odd but you’re not an empty head.

    *Turns north and prepares to go evasive on first sighting of ballistic turnip*
    You are being a very silly boy, I will be watching you. >:)
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    On mask wearing I've only recently stopped doing so in shops, and the only reason I waited was to be courteous as I had an August of big gatherings that had been delayed so I felt it was the right thing to do to wear one to help slow the spread.

    I still carry a mask with me but the only place I wear it now is in taxis as the driver has no choice but to breathe the air I do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867
    malcolmg said:

    You are being a very silly boy, I will be watching you. >:)
    Well, you stand no chance of hitting me if you don’t watch, do you?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,608

    This is completely different to 2000. In 2000 the stations weren't able to be refuelled due to the blockades which led to thousands and eventually almost all (from memory) stations running out of fuel. Since they weren't able to be refuelled this dragged on for weeks.

    This is a couple of days of idiot-led hysteria but the fuel stations are already being refuelled. So this time next week there'll be people with egg on their face and full tanks. Not the same thing at all.

    Plus of course in 2000 high taxes the government had introduced was behind the protests and the protests (initially) had overwhelming support in polls because the public were annoyed at petrol prices themselves. And it highlighted just how much of the price was tax. Hysteria isn't taxed unfortunately.
    It is almost copybook. What was behind the 2000 protests were blockades of fuel depots by Bryndley Williams, who later became a Tory AM, and that idiot farmer from Monmouth and a bunch of hauliers backed by William Hague. And the tanker hauliers wouldn't scab their colleagues.

    We panicked, we ran the pumps dry and we ran out of fuel. The end result was the same.

    Sometimes you spend hours arguing black is white, and white is black.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,923
    ydoethur said:

    Well, you stand no chance of hitting me if you don’t watch, do you?
    Locked and loaded
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,867
    malcolmg said:

    Locked and loaded
    *Looks round carefully and reaches for tinfoil hat*
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,286

    It is almost copybook. What was behind the 2000 protests were blockades of fuel depots by Bryndley Williams, who later became a Tory AM, and that idiot farmer from Monmouth and a bunch of hauliers backed by William Hague. And the tanker hauliers wouldn't scab their colleagues.

    We panicked, we ran the pumps dry and we ran out of fuel. The end result was the same.

    Sometimes you spend hours arguing black is white, and white is black.
    Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    malcolmg said:

    Wasting your breath Carnyx, you are talking to an empty head.
    Hello Malky. Just finished some mutton curry and some decent Cotes de Rhone. More geese flying south overhead but pleasant enough weather over here.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,137
    RobD said:

    Except, unlike in 2000, the petrol stations are being refilled.

    Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,286
    Scott_xP said:

    Apart from the ones that are not being refilled
    How many in 2000 were being refilled? None, or very very few of them.
This discussion has been closed.