Could Raab be in trouble at Esher and Walton? – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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You'll never be a politician if you don't regard obtaining the office as the achievement in itself.Sandpit said:
Very much forgettable. Did she achieve anything in office?TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't forget Margaret Beckett who was also Foreign Secretary under Blair.Sandpit said:
Robin Cook, who famously resigned. Jack Straw after him I think.IshmaelZ said:
Agree. Hard to remember who Blair's FS was, in a period overshadowed by foreign affairs.Philip_Thompson said:Happy to see Truss get a promotion though I always felt she was doing more for our foreign relations as Trade Secretary than Raab did as Foreign Secretary. I hope she can keep up the good work and gets a worthy successor (unless I've missed it and its been named already).
But to be honest I've never been entirely certain why Foreign Secretary even is a Great Office nowadays. Without wanting to be ignorant, it seems all 'serious' foreign policy issues are done by the PM not the Foreign Secretary anyway. How much credibly foreign policy actually originates in the Foreign Office and not Downing Street?2 -
Education?kle4 said:Zahawi's been in their half an hour, what's he getting already, what is left?
Would be a lot better than Nad or Williamson.2 -
Did you accept?rcs1000 said:Nadine Dorries very kindly offered to look after my then three year old son, when my daughter (then six) demanded I took her to the bathroom "to make a poop".
I would note that this was outside at a very fancy St James's restaraunt.
Trying to think if there are any from the Con front line I would leave my children with. Williamson obviously a no-no (but no longer counts, I guess). Raab lacks the attention to detail ("I didn't realise the importance of keeping an eye on young children, not just expecting them to stay put"). Johnson isn't very good at keeping track of children, as far as we can tell. Patel would have the little love on the next plane out of the country. Grant Shapps would teach some dubious habits. Sunak would steal his pocket money. Gove would, unintentionally, leave the poor little guy traumatised. Truss would hold him the wrong way up. Rees Mogg would send him off to the workhouse...
I might actually consider Starmer. Not sure about the rest of the Labour front bench (not knowing who most of them are...)2 -
Oliver Dowden likely to be party chair
Who is going to Education
Nadhim Zahawi ?0 -
She's been on the telly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Bozo really is a fuckwit.gealbhan said:
[insert speechless emoticon]Big_G_NorthWales said:Nadine Dorries appointed Culture Secretary
She's written books.
What more do you want?4 -
Johnson is seen as an instinctive campaigner with the common touch, Sunak is seen as a master strategist while Patel and Truss as self-promoting.FF43 said:
Liz Truss deserves her promotion in a way. No minister has ever self-promoted more and she seems popular with Conservative Party members.Philip_Thompson said:Happy to see Truss get a promotion though I always felt she was doing more for our foreign relations as Trade Secretary than Raab did as Foreign Secretary. I hope she can keep up the good work and gets a worthy successor (unless I've missed it and its been named already).
But to be honest I've never been entirely certain why Foreign Secretary even is a Great Office nowadays. Without wanting to be ignorant, it seems all 'serious' foreign policy issues are done by the PM not the Foreign Secretary anyway. How much credibly foreign policy actually originates in the Foreign Office and not Downing Street?
It is a good idea for a country to have a foreign policy, even if the PM ignores it. Formulating and implementing the foreign policy would fall to the FM. Unfortunately the UK doesn't have a coherent foreign policy at the moment. I wouldn't look to Truss to come up with one, but we will see.
What could possibly be the reason 🤔0 -
“ Licence Fee scrapped “Philip_Thompson said:
Does Nad have any Culture?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - Culture SecretaryPhilip_Thompson said:
Is that confirmed?RochdalePioneers said:Mad Nad for Education! Dolores Umbridge made real.
I imagine @ydoethur has steam coming out of his ears like a cartoon character right now.
I have no clue where she stands on Culture etc issues - like should the BBC Licence Fee be scrapped which I think is her department then? It would be good to see that dealt with.
And replaced with what funding mechanism for state broadcaster?0 -
There is something to be said for being a forgettable foreign secretary. Normally used in other context, but primum non nocere should be a guiding principle of foreign affairsSandpit said:
Very much forgettable. Did she achieve anything in office?TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't forget Margaret Beckett who was also Foreign Secretary under Blair.Sandpit said:
Robin Cook, who famously resigned. Jack Straw after him I think.IshmaelZ said:
Agree. Hard to remember who Blair's FS was, in a period overshadowed by foreign affairs.Philip_Thompson said:Happy to see Truss get a promotion though I always felt she was doing more for our foreign relations as Trade Secretary than Raab did as Foreign Secretary. I hope she can keep up the good work and gets a worthy successor (unless I've missed it and its been named already).
But to be honest I've never been entirely certain why Foreign Secretary even is a Great Office nowadays. Without wanting to be ignorant, it seems all 'serious' foreign policy issues are done by the PM not the Foreign Secretary anyway. How much credibly foreign policy actually originates in the Foreign Office and not Downing Street?0 -
You’re right there. Except that you put unnecessary spaces either side of the hyphen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - Culture SecretaryPhilip_Thompson said:
Is that confirmed?RochdalePioneers said:Mad Nad for Education! Dolores Umbridge made real.
I imagine @ydoethur has steam coming out of his ears like a cartoon character right now.4 -
I think she was a nurseStuartinromford said:
She's been on the telly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Bozo really is a fuckwit.gealbhan said:
[insert speechless emoticon]Big_G_NorthWales said:Nadine Dorries appointed Culture Secretary
She's written books.
What more do you want?0 -
The antivaxxers might pop if Zahawi is given education.1
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I think I mentioned Dumb and Dumber earlier.Stuartinromford said:
She's been on the telly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Bozo really is a fuckwit.gealbhan said:
[insert speechless emoticon]Big_G_NorthWales said:Nadine Dorries appointed Culture Secretary
She's written books.
What more do you want?0 -
Who gets the vaccine ministry if Zahawi is given Education, or does it get folded into the Saj's role ?0
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If it were up to me I'd grant the BBC Trust complete independence to determine that themselves. They could go for a Netflix style subscription fee would be my recommendation, but that should be up to them.gealbhan said:
“ Licence Fee scrapped “Philip_Thompson said:
Does Nad have any Culture?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - Culture SecretaryPhilip_Thompson said:
Is that confirmed?RochdalePioneers said:Mad Nad for Education! Dolores Umbridge made real.
I imagine @ydoethur has steam coming out of his ears like a cartoon character right now.
I have no clue where she stands on Culture etc issues - like should the BBC Licence Fee be scrapped which I think is her department then? It would be good to see that dealt with.
And replaced with what funding mechanism for state broadcaster?
The days of needing a "state broadcaster" are long since over in my eyes. We're not Russia, we don't need an RT state broadcaster.0 -
I am not good at English !!!!!IanB2 said:
You’re right there. Except that you put unnecessary spaces either side of the hyphen.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - Culture SecretaryPhilip_Thompson said:
Is that confirmed?RochdalePioneers said:Mad Nad for Education! Dolores Umbridge made real.
I imagine @ydoethur has steam coming out of his ears like a cartoon character right now.
And I am slow
Well done0 -
Useful skill in this CabinetBig_G_NorthWales said:
I think she was a nurseStuartinromford said:
She's been on the telly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Bozo really is a fuckwit.gealbhan said:
[insert speechless emoticon]Big_G_NorthWales said:Nadine Dorries appointed Culture Secretary
She's written books.
What more do you want?1 -
I think that's an excellent appointment.CarlottaVance said:Confirmation:
The Rt Hon Michael Gove @MichaelGove has been appointed Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government @MHCLG
He takes on cross-government responsibility for levelling up. He retains ministerial responsibility for the Union and elections.
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438160644717662214?s=20
Gove is a man who doesn't mind innovating, and who is happy to ruffle feathers.
Of course, he may come up with terrible answers, but at least they won't be the same answers we've heard so many times before.6 -
Oh yes, in most cases I think it was, especially when it was people who knew they were trans, e.g. people in the office.Carnyx said:
And a corollary question if I may - was this specifically against trans? As opposed to, say, just mistaking them for being LGB?JosiasJessop said:
Fairy nuff.IshmaelZ said:
I am not talking about you, sorry if you thought I was.JosiasJessop said:
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.IshmaelZ said:
What? We need to *start* accepting boys wanting to date other boys?JosiasJessop said:
"But anyway this is what I mean by the trans lobby lacking intelligence and rationality."Stocky said:
That's the population of Leicester. A ridiculous figure taken from a unpublished dissertation. So somewhere between zero and the population of :Leicester. I'm betting much closer to zero.JosiasJessop said:
A god question, and it probably depends on the definition of 'intersex'. The following says over 300k, which seems massively high to me:Stocky said:
Sure. I wonder how many exist in the UK?JosiasJessop said:
Of course not, although the groups might intersect (*)Stocky said:
Gosh, that one is fast becoming an old chestnut. This is incredibly rare. Are you suggesting that transgender people are "intersex" people?JosiasJessop said:
"Everyone is born either a male or a female."Cookie said:
And yet - in this one particular respect - the world IS neat and tidy. Everyone is born either a male or a female. They may not want to live a stereotypically male or female life, and we should not force them to do so - but biological non-binarism(?) is a fiction.JosiasJessop said:
Oddly, many women and feminists disagree with Ms Free's views on this. Including Mrs J. Ms Free does speak from her own perspective, not that of all women or feminists.Stocky said:
Excellent post. I don't think you are bringing a female perspective into it. I think you are bringing rationality into it.Cyclefree said:The argument is not about trans rights. The reality is that there are no legal rights which other groups have which trans people lack. Women have no issue with people with gender dysphoria getting the help, resources and kindness and care they need.
The argument is about women's rights which will be seriously harmed and diminished if the gender ideologists gets their way, gender ideologists who care little for doing anything practical for people with gender dysphoria.
One final point gender ideology is, when you think about it, based on very old-fashioned stereotypes. It assumes that if you are a "butch" girl, a tomboy you must therefore be a boy. Or that if you are a more "feminine" sort of man you must be a girl. This is of course nonsense. These are the sorts of stereotypes which feminism has tried to move away from. Quite why they should now be seen as something to be applauded let alone used as the basis for legislation and medical experimentation on children of a most gruesome kind is beyond me.
I stand for the rights of women. I stand for the rights of people who have gender dysphoria. I stand for the rights of gay people whose sexuality is based on sex not on gender. I do not stand for trans activists who seek attack women and gay people and who do nothing for those with gender dysphoria.
And the reason I feel strongly about this is not just because I am a woman and a feminist. But because I have a gay child and one who went through some of the issues which some gay adolescents go through (worrying about whether he might be trans etc). He is now happily gay and probably quite a feminine sort of man. But who cares? Plus I am a trustee of a primary school and there are some very serious issues around safeguarding which are raised by this ideology.
So apologies for boring you all. But this is an important issue and one which will affect my vote. I will not vote for a party which makes self-ID part of its offering. I will not vote for a party which does not make the maintenance of women's' rights and the sex-based rights under the various Acts which women have had to fight for long and hard over decades a fundamental part of its offering. I will not vote for a party which adopts policies undermining the reality of same sex attraction. I will not vote for a party which thinks that being a woman "is an attitude". Womanhood is a reality not a "feeling".
This is a very male forum. I make no apologies for occasionally bringing a female perspective to it.
The problem is not that this forum is too male: it's that we don't have many trans voices. I know we had one openly-trans poster, whom I sadly don't think has posted for a while. (As I recall, his views were not always as I'd expect, which was brilliant.)
I have known trans people, and one - a good friend - committed suicide. I still miss him. I have also directly seen others being bullied sniggered at etc in offices and on the street. This is the other side of the equation that Ms Free always rejects, e.g. when she outhandedly rejects Stonewall's figures. Behaviour that would be socially unacceptable towards gays or lesbians is fine against too many trans people. I have witnessed this first hand over the years.
I am not a 'gender idealist'. It's just that I accept the world is non-binary; and not just in the case of intersex people. The world is not as neat and tidy as some people want. So we can either accept that it is not tidy, or try to force people into pigeonholes. That latter approach is the one used throughout history, and has led to all sorts of pain for individuals who are different. I prefer the former approach.
I have sympathy for some of her points. Growing up is confusing for many people, and encouraging people to convert as children makes me very uneasy. I don't think changing gender should be made easier. The use of chemicals on children - especially pre-puberty - is wrong IMO.
But too many trans people don't face real issues and dangers that the rest of us do not.
I am not trans. I have no inclination to be, and never have. I am also not a woman. So perhaps I should have no voice in the matter. But those are my views.
Not everyone is born either male or a female. Biologically, there are intersex people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
Intersex people may be 'Incredibly' rare, or just rare, depending on definition. But they still exist. And deserve a little more understanding than being ignored with "Everyone is born either a male or a female."
(*) Goodness, how I hate using 'intersect' nowadays...
https://www.bacp.co.uk/bacp-journals/private-practice/march-2018/understanding-intersex/
I could believe that 0.02% or 1.7% might be correct, depending on the definition. Intersex is probably a range of things, not all of which might be immediately physically obvious.
I'd love to see other figures.
But it isn't zero.
But anyway this is what I mean by the trans lobby lacking intelligence and rationality. The "not everyone is either male sex or female sex" gambit is like me saying that a coin toss will result in a heads or a tails outcome and them saying "No, no you are wrong, it could land on its edge".
Wow. You're trying to say intersex people are so vanishingly close to zero that they might as well live in Haiti (*), and then you come out with that?
I don't know the true number of intersex people. Which, you might think, is actually a symptom of the problem. People like to pigeonhole others; say they fit into nice little categories. Well, it seems humans are not that simple to pigeonhole. Whether it is boys wanting to date other boys, boys wanting to be girls, or people born with a confusing gender, people are messy and confusing.
We need to start accepting that.
(*) For anyone reading this morning's thread...
The transgender people I know are happy getting on with life and anywhere between neutral and seriously hostile to people purporting to activise on their behalf. It's like the anti apartheid stuff in the 70s and 80s: go down to a South African township, and the quickest way to get severely beaten or killed, other than wear a Rolex, is to start giving it large about how you stood shoulder to shoulder with them in the fight against racial injustice. People are just sooooo ungrateful.
I'm not trying to activise on their behalf. I'm just giving my view, based on the experiences I've had in life, and the people I've known. I don't go onto the streets to campaign for them, or onto any specialist websites. As I said this morning, many pro-trans activists go to far, as do anti-trans ones.
But I'll state my views on here, and argue strongly with others when I think they're wrong. And that is the nature of PB.
It may be just that I'm out of touch with the zeitgeist here out west, but I didn't think being anti-trans was a big thing. I'm not aware of any insulting expressions equivalent to faggot, poofter etc. And you can see why there wouldn't be. It is relatively easy to understand (meaning solely understand, not in a million years empathize with) some elements of being anti gay: it is deprecated in the Bible, just about, if you squint enough, and it's a thing people do as well as just are. Neither of which applies to trans people So my impression of the activists is that they are hysterically seeking out anti transism just as the HUAC sought out un American activities.
But a question: in a post above, you say you know transgender people. When I knew a few transgender people (I don't at the moment, as it happens), I frequently heard comments directed against them - even from people in the same office. Nastiness disguised as 'jokes'. It was really bad for a friend of mine at school (who has now had the op).
Have you heard and experienced similar?0 -
That is an odd appointment to my mind. He doesn't strike me as a rubber chicken circuit fellow happy listening to wild rabid rantings of crap every night at member associate dinners.Big_G_NorthWales said:Oliver Dowden likely to be party chair
Who is going to Education
Nadhim Zahawi ?0 -
AIUI she’s spent quite a bit of the past 18 months as a nurse as well as a Health minister. She’s been the government’s eyes on the front line, hence being lined up for a promotion.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think she was a nurseStuartinromford said:
She's been on the telly.Nigel_Foremain said:
Bozo really is a fuckwit.gealbhan said:
[insert speechless emoticon]Big_G_NorthWales said:Nadine Dorries appointed Culture Secretary
She's written books.
What more do you want?2 -
Jenrick is the exception but spot a pattern on who has been sacked?
0 -
The Rt Hon Mark Spencer MP @Mark_Spencer remains Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Chief Whip)
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438166425064157190?s=200 -
OfCom chair is the big one sitting in her in-tray.gealbhan said:
“ Licence Fee scrapped “Philip_Thompson said:
Does Nad have any Culture?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - Culture SecretaryPhilip_Thompson said:
Is that confirmed?RochdalePioneers said:Mad Nad for Education! Dolores Umbridge made real.
I imagine @ydoethur has steam coming out of his ears like a cartoon character right now.
I have no clue where she stands on Culture etc issues - like should the BBC Licence Fee be scrapped which I think is her department then? It would be good to see that dealt with.
And replaced with what funding mechanism for state broadcaster?
Johnson seems to want Dacre for some reason known only to himself.0 -
The PM possibly does less on foreign affairs than people think. He will make the big calls - whether to go to war and so on - and go to the interesting summits but he will delegate the rest because he doesn't have the time or the knowledge. I think there is scope for a capable minister to make their mark. Not least right now because the UK doesn't have an effective foreign policy.Philip_Thompson said:
Who was the last Foreign Secretary that you think credibly formulated foreign policy?FF43 said:
Liz Truss deserves her promotion in a way. No minister has ever self-promoted more and she seems popular with Conservative Party members.Philip_Thompson said:Happy to see Truss get a promotion though I always felt she was doing more for our foreign relations as Trade Secretary than Raab did as Foreign Secretary. I hope she can keep up the good work and gets a worthy successor (unless I've missed it and its been named already).
But to be honest I've never been entirely certain why Foreign Secretary even is a Great Office nowadays. Without wanting to be ignorant, it seems all 'serious' foreign policy issues are done by the PM not the Foreign Secretary anyway. How much credibly foreign policy actually originates in the Foreign Office and not Downing Street?
It is a good idea for a country to have a foreign policy, even if the PM ignores it. Formulating and implementing the foreign policy would fall to the FM. Unfortunately the UK doesn't have a coherent foreign policy at the moment. I wouldn't look to Truss to come up with one, but we will see.
As opposed to the PM doing it?0 -
I did not accept. She had had a few glasses of wine, and my son can be a handful. But it was very genuine gesture, and I've always thought well of her for it.Selebian said:
Did you accept?rcs1000 said:Nadine Dorries very kindly offered to look after my then three year old son, when my daughter (then six) demanded I took her to the bathroom "to make a poop".
I would note that this was outside at a very fancy St James's restaraunt.
Trying to think if there are any from the Con front line I would leave my children with. Williamson obviously a no-no (but no longer counts, I guess). Raab lacks the attention to detail ("I didn't realise the importance of keeping an eye on young children, not just expecting them to stay put"). Johnson isn't very good at keeping track of children, as far as we can tell. Patel would have the little love on the next plane out of the country. Grant Shapps would teach some dubious habits. Sunak would steal his pocket money. Gove would, unintentionally, leave the poor little guy traumatised. Truss would hold him the wrong way up. Rees Mogg would send him off to the workhouse...
I might actually consider Starmer. Not sure about the rest of the Labour front bench (not knowing who most of them are...)
Still: not sure I'd have made her culture secretary, but that's another story altogether.2 -
Thanks. Might be different for people out in the street nad being mistaken for LGB by the local neds and yobs out for some bashing, but what you say is pretty specific.JosiasJessop said:
Oh yes, in most cases I think it was, especially when it was people who knew they were trans, e.g. people in the office.Carnyx said:
And a corollary question if I may - was this specifically against trans? As opposed to, say, just mistaking them for being LGB?JosiasJessop said:
Fairy nuff.IshmaelZ said:
I am not talking about you, sorry if you thought I was.JosiasJessop said:
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.IshmaelZ said:
What? We need to *start* accepting boys wanting to date other boys?JosiasJessop said:
"But anyway this is what I mean by the trans lobby lacking intelligence and rationality."Stocky said:
That's the population of Leicester. A ridiculous figure taken from a unpublished dissertation. So somewhere between zero and the population of :Leicester. I'm betting much closer to zero.JosiasJessop said:
A god question, and it probably depends on the definition of 'intersex'. The following says over 300k, which seems massively high to me:Stocky said:
Sure. I wonder how many exist in the UK?JosiasJessop said:
Of course not, although the groups might intersect (*)Stocky said:
Gosh, that one is fast becoming an old chestnut. This is incredibly rare. Are you suggesting that transgender people are "intersex" people?JosiasJessop said:
"Everyone is born either a male or a female."Cookie said:
And yet - in this one particular respect - the world IS neat and tidy. Everyone is born either a male or a female. They may not want to live a stereotypically male or female life, and we should not force them to do so - but biological non-binarism(?) is a fiction.JosiasJessop said:
Oddly, many women and feminists disagree with Ms Free's views on this. Including Mrs J. Ms Free does speak from her own perspective, not that of all women or feminists.Stocky said:
Excellent post. I don't think you are bringing a female perspective into it. I think you are bringing rationality into it.Cyclefree said:The argument is not about trans rights. The reality is that there are no legal rights which other groups have which trans people lack. Women have no issue with people with gender dysphoria getting the help, resources and kindness and care they need.
The argument is about women's rights which will be seriously harmed and diminished if the gender ideologists gets their way, gender ideologists who care little for doing anything practical for people with gender dysphoria.
One final point gender ideology is, when you think about it, based on very old-fashioned stereotypes. It assumes that if you are a "butch" girl, a tomboy you must therefore be a boy. Or that if you are a more "feminine" sort of man you must be a girl. This is of course nonsense. These are the sorts of stereotypes which feminism has tried to move away from. Quite why they should now be seen as something to be applauded let alone used as the basis for legislation and medical experimentation on children of a most gruesome kind is beyond me.
I stand for the rights of women. I stand for the rights of people who have gender dysphoria. I stand for the rights of gay people whose sexuality is based on sex not on gender. I do not stand for trans activists who seek attack women and gay people and who do nothing for those with gender dysphoria.
And the reason I feel strongly about this is not just because I am a woman and a feminist. But because I have a gay child and one who went through some of the issues which some gay adolescents go through (worrying about whether he might be trans etc). He is now happily gay and probably quite a feminine sort of man. But who cares? Plus I am a trustee of a primary school and there are some very serious issues around safeguarding which are raised by this ideology.
So apologies for boring you all. But this is an important issue and one which will affect my vote. I will not vote for a party which makes self-ID part of its offering. I will not vote for a party which does not make the maintenance of women's' rights and the sex-based rights under the various Acts which women have had to fight for long and hard over decades a fundamental part of its offering. I will not vote for a party which adopts policies undermining the reality of same sex attraction. I will not vote for a party which thinks that being a woman "is an attitude". Womanhood is a reality not a "feeling".
This is a very male forum. I make no apologies for occasionally bringing a female perspective to it.
The problem is not that this forum is too male: it's that we don't have many trans voices. I know we had one openly-trans poster, whom I sadly don't think has posted for a while. (As I recall, his views were not always as I'd expect, which was brilliant.)
I have known trans people, and one - a good friend - committed suicide. I still miss him. I have also directly seen others being bullied sniggered at etc in offices and on the street. This is the other side of the equation that Ms Free always rejects, e.g. when she outhandedly rejects Stonewall's figures. Behaviour that would be socially unacceptable towards gays or lesbians is fine against too many trans people. I have witnessed this first hand over the years.
I am not a 'gender idealist'. It's just that I accept the world is non-binary; and not just in the case of intersex people. The world is not as neat and tidy as some people want. So we can either accept that it is not tidy, or try to force people into pigeonholes. That latter approach is the one used throughout history, and has led to all sorts of pain for individuals who are different. I prefer the former approach.
I have sympathy for some of her points. Growing up is confusing for many people, and encouraging people to convert as children makes me very uneasy. I don't think changing gender should be made easier. The use of chemicals on children - especially pre-puberty - is wrong IMO.
But too many trans people don't face real issues and dangers that the rest of us do not.
I am not trans. I have no inclination to be, and never have. I am also not a woman. So perhaps I should have no voice in the matter. But those are my views.
Not everyone is born either male or a female. Biologically, there are intersex people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
Intersex people may be 'Incredibly' rare, or just rare, depending on definition. But they still exist. And deserve a little more understanding than being ignored with "Everyone is born either a male or a female."
(*) Goodness, how I hate using 'intersect' nowadays...
https://www.bacp.co.uk/bacp-journals/private-practice/march-2018/understanding-intersex/
I could believe that 0.02% or 1.7% might be correct, depending on the definition. Intersex is probably a range of things, not all of which might be immediately physically obvious.
I'd love to see other figures.
But it isn't zero.
But anyway this is what I mean by the trans lobby lacking intelligence and rationality. The "not everyone is either male sex or female sex" gambit is like me saying that a coin toss will result in a heads or a tails outcome and them saying "No, no you are wrong, it could land on its edge".
Wow. You're trying to say intersex people are so vanishingly close to zero that they might as well live in Haiti (*), and then you come out with that?
I don't know the true number of intersex people. Which, you might think, is actually a symptom of the problem. People like to pigeonhole others; say they fit into nice little categories. Well, it seems humans are not that simple to pigeonhole. Whether it is boys wanting to date other boys, boys wanting to be girls, or people born with a confusing gender, people are messy and confusing.
We need to start accepting that.
(*) For anyone reading this morning's thread...
The transgender people I know are happy getting on with life and anywhere between neutral and seriously hostile to people purporting to activise on their behalf. It's like the anti apartheid stuff in the 70s and 80s: go down to a South African township, and the quickest way to get severely beaten or killed, other than wear a Rolex, is to start giving it large about how you stood shoulder to shoulder with them in the fight against racial injustice. People are just sooooo ungrateful.
I'm not trying to activise on their behalf. I'm just giving my view, based on the experiences I've had in life, and the people I've known. I don't go onto the streets to campaign for them, or onto any specialist websites. As I said this morning, many pro-trans activists go to far, as do anti-trans ones.
But I'll state my views on here, and argue strongly with others when I think they're wrong. And that is the nature of PB.
It may be just that I'm out of touch with the zeitgeist here out west, but I didn't think being anti-trans was a big thing. I'm not aware of any insulting expressions equivalent to faggot, poofter etc. And you can see why there wouldn't be. It is relatively easy to understand (meaning solely understand, not in a million years empathize with) some elements of being anti gay: it is deprecated in the Bible, just about, if you squint enough, and it's a thing people do as well as just are. Neither of which applies to trans people So my impression of the activists is that they are hysterically seeking out anti transism just as the HUAC sought out un American activities.
But a question: in a post above, you say you know transgender people. When I knew a few transgender people (I don't at the moment, as it happens), I frequently heard comments directed against them - even from people in the same office. Nastiness disguised as 'jokes'. It was really bad for a friend of mine at school (who has now had the op).
Have you heard and experienced similar?0 -
He seems to take the responsibility of being a minister seriously - even if he yearns for the top job he'll put effort in wherever he is placed, not just be a time server.rcs1000 said:
I think that's an excellent appointment.CarlottaVance said:Confirmation:
The Rt Hon Michael Gove @MichaelGove has been appointed Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government @MHCLG
He takes on cross-government responsibility for levelling up. He retains ministerial responsibility for the Union and elections.
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438160644717662214?s=20
Gove is a man who doesn't mind innovating, and who is happy to ruffle feathers.
Of course, he may come up with terrible answers, but at least they won't be the same answers we've heard so many times before.
Yes it can go wrong, but its better to have such people than those who never have an impact at all.4 -
So fluent Yes Minister I am not sure you actually mean it.rcs1000 said:
I think that's an excellent appointment.CarlottaVance said:Confirmation:
The Rt Hon Michael Gove @MichaelGove has been appointed Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government @MHCLG
He takes on cross-government responsibility for levelling up. He retains ministerial responsibility for the Union and elections.
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438160644717662214?s=20
Gove is a man who doesn't mind innovating, and who is happy to ruffle feathers.
Of course, he may come up with terrible answers, but at least they won't be the same answers we've heard so many times before.0 -
Standby for new towns on the moon.rcs1000 said:
I think that's an excellent appointment.CarlottaVance said:Confirmation:
The Rt Hon Michael Gove @MichaelGove has been appointed Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government @MHCLG
He takes on cross-government responsibility for levelling up. He retains ministerial responsibility for the Union and elections.
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438160644717662214?s=20
Gove is a man who doesn't mind innovating, and who is happy to ruffle feathers.
Of course, he may come up with terrible answers, but at least they won't be the same answers we've heard so many times before.0 -
Speaking of which, a group calling themselves the Punjab Kings appear to be staying in the hotel next door to my office. Two or three team coaches (vehicles, rather than people) hanging around outside all day.Philip_Thompson said:
The Indians abandoned it.MikeSmithson said:Test
https://twitter.com/PunjabKingsIPL/status/1435248502788005897
Yes, that’s pretty much the view from my office 2 -
Updated with Gove:
Priti Patel stays on as home secretary and Liz Truss has been appointed as foreign secretary.
Two of the four great offices of state are now held by women - which has not been the case since Amber Rudd resigned as home secretary in 2018
https://twitter.com/instituteforgov/status/1438159275055058945?s=20
0 -
He did a bloody good job last week, getting all but two Tory MPs to line up and vote for a tax rise.CarlottaVance said:The Rt Hon Mark Spencer MP @Mark_Spencer remains Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Chief Whip)
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438166425064157190?s=200 -
Is it, no matter what they have said their entire life, when given responsibility for BBC they tend to go all native and supportive of the thing?rottenborough said:
OfCom chair is the big one sitting in her in-tray.gealbhan said:
“ Licence Fee scrapped “Philip_Thompson said:
Does Nad have any Culture?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - Culture SecretaryPhilip_Thompson said:
Is that confirmed?RochdalePioneers said:Mad Nad for Education! Dolores Umbridge made real.
I imagine @ydoethur has steam coming out of his ears like a cartoon character right now.
I have no clue where she stands on Culture etc issues - like should the BBC Licence Fee be scrapped which I think is her department then? It would be good to see that dealt with.
And replaced with what funding mechanism for state broadcaster?
Johnson seems to want Dacre for some reason known only to himself.
And then the argument BBC funding can’t stay still in a changing climate that kills the license fee, state broadcaster will end up funded from income tax not a clever post license fee wheeze?0 -
Under the circumstances I'm loathe to call that a good job but yes you're right. For a whip that is impressive.Sandpit said:
He did a bloody good job last week, getting all but two Tory MPs to line up and vote for a tax rise.CarlottaVance said:The Rt Hon Mark Spencer MP @Mark_Spencer remains Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Chief Whip)
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438166425064157190?s=20
Seems Williamson's days of knowing where the bodies are is long over.0 -
There are some stories that are quite funny in a oh-god-that-didnt-happen-did-it?Carnyx said:
Thanks. Might be different for people out in the street nad being mistaken for LGB by the local neds and yobs out for some bashing, but what you say is pretty specific.JosiasJessop said:
Oh yes, in most cases I think it was, especially when it was people who knew they were trans, e.g. people in the office.Carnyx said:
And a corollary question if I may - was this specifically against trans? As opposed to, say, just mistaking them for being LGB?JosiasJessop said:
Fairy nuff.IshmaelZ said:
I am not talking about you, sorry if you thought I was.JosiasJessop said:
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.IshmaelZ said:
What? We need to *start* accepting boys wanting to date other boys?JosiasJessop said:
"But anyway this is what I mean by the trans lobby lacking intelligence and rationality."Stocky said:
That's the population of Leicester. A ridiculous figure taken from a unpublished dissertation. So somewhere between zero and the population of :Leicester. I'm betting much closer to zero.JosiasJessop said:
A god question, and it probably depends on the definition of 'intersex'. The following says over 300k, which seems massively high to me:Stocky said:
Sure. I wonder how many exist in the UK?JosiasJessop said:
Of course not, although the groups might intersect (*)Stocky said:
Gosh, that one is fast becoming an old chestnut. This is incredibly rare. Are you suggesting that transgender people are "intersex" people?JosiasJessop said:
"Everyone is born either a male or a female."Cookie said:
And yet - in this one particular respect - the world IS neat and tidy. Everyone is born either a male or a female. They may not want to live a stereotypically male or female life, and we should not force them to do so - but biological non-binarism(?) is a fiction.JosiasJessop said:
Oddly, many women and feminists disagree with Ms Free's views on this. Including Mrs J. Ms Free does speak from her own perspective, not that of all women or feminists.Stocky said:
Excellent post. I don't think you are bringing a female perspective into it. I think you are bringing rationality into it.Cyclefree said:The argument is not about trans rights. The reality is that there are no legal rights which other groups have which trans people lack. Women have no issue with people with gender dysphoria getting the help, resources and kindness and care they need.
The argument is about women's rights which will be seriously harmed and diminished if the gender ideologists gets their way, gender ideologists who care little for doing anything practical for people with gender dysphoria.
One final point gender ideology is, when you think about it, based on very old-fashioned stereotypes. It assumes that if you are a "butch" girl, a tomboy you must therefore be a boy. Or that if you are a more "feminine" sort of man you must be a girl. This is of course nonsense. These are the sorts of stereotypes which feminism has tried to move away from. Quite why they should now be seen as something to be applauded let alone used as the basis for legislation and medical experimentation on children of a most gruesome kind is beyond me.
I stand for the rights of women. I stand for the rights of people who have gender dysphoria. I stand for the rights of gay people whose sexuality is based on sex not on gender. I do not stand for trans activists who seek attack women and gay people and who do nothing for those with gender dysphoria.
And the reason I feel strongly about this is not just because I am a woman and a feminist. But because I have a gay child and one who went through some of the issues which some gay adolescents go through (worrying about whether he might be trans etc). He is now happily gay and probably quite a feminine sort of man. But who cares? Plus I am a trustee of a primary school and there are some very serious issues around safeguarding which are raised by this ideology.
So apologies for boring you all. But this is an important issue and one which will affect my vote. I will not vote for a party which makes self-ID part of its offering. I will not vote for a party which does not make the maintenance of women's' rights and the sex-based rights under the various Acts which women have had to fight for long and hard over decades a fundamental part of its offering. I will not vote for a party which adopts policies undermining the reality of same sex attraction. I will not vote for a party which thinks that being a woman "is an attitude". Womanhood is a reality not a "feeling".
This is a very male forum. I make no apologies for occasionally bringing a female perspective to it.
The problem is not that this forum is too male: it's that we don't have many trans voices. I know we had one openly-trans poster, whom I sadly don't think has posted for a while. (As I recall, his views were not always as I'd expect, which was brilliant.)
I have known trans people, and one - a good friend - committed suicide. I still miss him. I have also directly seen others being bullied sniggered at etc in offices and on the street. This is the other side of the equation that Ms Free always rejects, e.g. when she outhandedly rejects Stonewall's figures. Behaviour that would be socially unacceptable towards gays or lesbians is fine against too many trans people. I have witnessed this first hand over the years.
I am not a 'gender idealist'. It's just that I accept the world is non-binary; and not just in the case of intersex people. The world is not as neat and tidy as some people want. So we can either accept that it is not tidy, or try to force people into pigeonholes. That latter approach is the one used throughout history, and has led to all sorts of pain for individuals who are different. I prefer the former approach.
I have sympathy for some of her points. Growing up is confusing for many people, and encouraging people to convert as children makes me very uneasy. I don't think changing gender should be made easier. The use of chemicals on children - especially pre-puberty - is wrong IMO.
But too many trans people don't face real issues and dangers that the rest of us do not.
I am not trans. I have no inclination to be, and never have. I am also not a woman. So perhaps I should have no voice in the matter. But those are my views.
Not everyone is born either male or a female. Biologically, there are intersex people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
Intersex people may be 'Incredibly' rare, or just rare, depending on definition. But they still exist. And deserve a little more understanding than being ignored with "Everyone is born either a male or a female."
(*) Goodness, how I hate using 'intersect' nowadays...
https://www.bacp.co.uk/bacp-journals/private-practice/march-2018/understanding-intersex/
I could believe that 0.02% or 1.7% might be correct, depending on the definition. Intersex is probably a range of things, not all of which might be immediately physically obvious.
I'd love to see other figures.
But it isn't zero.
But anyway this is what I mean by the trans lobby lacking intelligence and rationality. The "not everyone is either male sex or female sex" gambit is like me saying that a coin toss will result in a heads or a tails outcome and them saying "No, no you are wrong, it could land on its edge".
Wow. You're trying to say intersex people are so vanishingly close to zero that they might as well live in Haiti (*), and then you come out with that?
I don't know the true number of intersex people. Which, you might think, is actually a symptom of the problem. People like to pigeonhole others; say they fit into nice little categories. Well, it seems humans are not that simple to pigeonhole. Whether it is boys wanting to date other boys, boys wanting to be girls, or people born with a confusing gender, people are messy and confusing.
We need to start accepting that.
(*) For anyone reading this morning's thread...
The transgender people I know are happy getting on with life and anywhere between neutral and seriously hostile to people purporting to activise on their behalf. It's like the anti apartheid stuff in the 70s and 80s: go down to a South African township, and the quickest way to get severely beaten or killed, other than wear a Rolex, is to start giving it large about how you stood shoulder to shoulder with them in the fight against racial injustice. People are just sooooo ungrateful.
I'm not trying to activise on their behalf. I'm just giving my view, based on the experiences I've had in life, and the people I've known. I don't go onto the streets to campaign for them, or onto any specialist websites. As I said this morning, many pro-trans activists go to far, as do anti-trans ones.
But I'll state my views on here, and argue strongly with others when I think they're wrong. And that is the nature of PB.
It may be just that I'm out of touch with the zeitgeist here out west, but I didn't think being anti-trans was a big thing. I'm not aware of any insulting expressions equivalent to faggot, poofter etc. And you can see why there wouldn't be. It is relatively easy to understand (meaning solely understand, not in a million years empathize with) some elements of being anti gay: it is deprecated in the Bible, just about, if you squint enough, and it's a thing people do as well as just are. Neither of which applies to trans people So my impression of the activists is that they are hysterically seeking out anti transism just as the HUAC sought out un American activities.
But a question: in a post above, you say you know transgender people. When I knew a few transgender people (I don't at the moment, as it happens), I frequently heard comments directed against them - even from people in the same office. Nastiness disguised as 'jokes'. It was really bad for a friend of mine at school (who has now had the op).
Have you heard and experienced similar?
My friend was badly affected by some of the stuff that happened. I worked with him at another, smaller company, where the atmosphere was far better. To confuse matters further, being gay, or tv, or ts, or different in any way, does not make you a good person. One of the TSs I knew was not, in my view, a particularly pleasant person - and not for any reason attached to her gender identity. It was sometimes hard to know if comments directed at her were due to her being ts, or because she was sometimes unpleasant herself. And then we get into a chicken-and-egg situation ...
Edit: it was slightly before my time so I didn't witness it, but apparently there was a Christmas party where one was in tears because of comments made about the bloke she had brought with her.0 -
Someone did the maths
In one day, Faroe Islanders managed to kill (for no reason) 2% of all the white sided dolphins on earth.
Good work, lads. Just another 49 days and they will all be gone0 -
Steve Barclay and Anne Marie Trevelyan into no 100
-
Party Chair:
The Rt Hon Oliver Dowden @OliverDowden has been appointed Minister without Portfolio, Cabinet Office.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438166904967991307?s=200 -
What about Patel?Big_G_NorthWales said:
If true happy with all thatScott_xP said:Reshuffle latest:
Robert Jenrick sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Robert Buckland sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Gavin Williamson sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Raab likely to be demoted from FCDO to justice secretary
Amanda Milling likely to be sacked
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/14381358693790679070 -
deleted0
-
Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=200 -
How many sacked Ministers immediately go into 'revenge' mode? I recall that Norman Lamont took his ousting from the Treasury by Major very badly indeed - and the bitterness has continued to the extent that they are not on speaking terms. It went so deep that Lamont refused the customary exchange of letters when a Minister leaves office.Had he known about Major's affair with Edwina, he would have been well placed to effectively blackmail Major. 'Sack me and I blow the whistle on you!'0
-
You cannot have everythingRoger said:
What about Patel?Big_G_NorthWales said:
If true happy with all thatScott_xP said:Reshuffle latest:
Robert Jenrick sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Robert Buckland sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Gavin Williamson sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Raab likely to be demoted from FCDO to justice secretary
Amanda Milling likely to be sacked
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/14381358693790679070 -
Gavin Williamson and Robert Jenrick were both pointless answers on BBC's Pointless yesterday. (Question: Name members of Brois Johnson's first Cabinet) but so was Liz Truss. I am tempted to add: That is a disgrace.0
-
Does that mean he gets paid for doing sod all?CarlottaVance said:Party Chair:
The Rt Hon Oliver Dowden @OliverDowden has been appointed Minister without Portfolio, Cabinet Office.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438166904967991307?s=200 -
Maybe she knows something about sport.CarlottaVance said:Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=200 -
Charles V: "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse"
@vonderleyen today: I use English for economics and health, French for social policy and German to warn the Poles to respect the rule of law and our values. #StateOfTheUnion
https://twitter.com/lugaricano/status/1438049889787781122?s=200 -
Interesting - a Brexiter in charge of the laws to replace GDPR, also.CarlottaVance said:Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=200 -
Hope Barclay gets something. He's OK.Big_G_NorthWales said:Steve Barclay and Anne Marie Trevelyan into no 10
1 -
You're the goto guy for historical political trivia, if you don't know who does?!justin124 said:How many sacked Ministers immediately go into 'revenge' mode? I recall that Norman Lamont took his ousting from the Treasury by Major very badly indeed - and the bitterness has continued to the extent that they are not on speaking terms. It went so deep that Lamont refused the customary exchange of letters when a Minister leaves office.Had he known about Major's affair with Edwina, he would have been well placed to effectively blackmail Major. 'Sack me and I blow the whistle on you!'
I cannot quite tell if she is making a good joke or about to fall down to criticisms of national stereotyping.CarlottaVance said:Charles V: "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse"
@vonderleyen today: I use English for economics and health, French for social policy and German to warn the Poles to respect the rule of law and our values. #StateOfTheUnion
https://twitter.com/lugaricano/status/1438049889787781122?s=200 -
Putting the Culture in Culture Wars:
Left wing snowflakes are killing comedy, tearing down historic statues, removing books from universities, dumbing down panto, removing Christ from Christmas and suppressing free speech. Sadly, it must be true, history does repeat itself. It will be music next.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/945973216778031110?s=202 -
Between California, Texas, and the GDPR, the rules on data privacy are going to be an absolute nightmare for all businesses.Carnyx said:
Interesting - a Brexiter in charge of the laws to replace GDPR, also.CarlottaVance said:Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=200 -
What about Patel? is a good question. Why was she at Number 10 for no change? Was Raab bought off with a title originally meant for her? Priti as DPM even?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You cannot have everythingRoger said:
What about Patel?Big_G_NorthWales said:
If true happy with all thatScott_xP said:Reshuffle latest:
Robert Jenrick sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Robert Buckland sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Gavin Williamson sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Raab likely to be demoted from FCDO to justice secretary
Amanda Milling likely to be sacked
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/14381358693790679070 -
Published novelist. And interactions with TV other than the usual political news progs (see Wikipedia).rottenborough said:
Maybe she knows something about sport.CarlottaVance said:Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=200 -
Mad Nad Secretary of State for Culture Wars.CarlottaVance said:Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=20
Portraits of the Queen rescued from Kabul to be a mandatory part of all news sets next to the union flag. Spitting Image to be banned. GBNews replaces Independent Radio News to supply non-woke news to commercial radio.
That sort of thing.0 -
That combines being quite funny, with being just a little bit threatening.CarlottaVance said:Charles V: "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse"
@vonderleyen today: I use English for economics and health, French for social policy and German to warn the Poles to respect the rule of law and our values. #StateOfTheUnion
https://twitter.com/lugaricano/status/1438049889787781122?s=202 -
So the question becomes, should a community be allowed to make a species extinct because it has a right to maintain its traditional culture? A good example of humans putting themselves above everything else on the planet.Leon said:Someone did the maths
In one day, Faroe Islanders managed to kill (for no reason) 2% of all the white sided dolphins on earth.
Good work, lads. Just another 49 days and they will all be gone0 -
And, presumably, the new UK replacement, which is bound to be different from GDPR.rcs1000 said:
Between California, Texas, and the GDPR, the rules on data privacy are going to be an absolute nightmare for all businesses.Carnyx said:
Interesting - a Brexiter in charge of the laws to replace GDPR, also.CarlottaVance said:Confirmed:
Nadine Dorries MP @NadineDorries has been appointed Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport @DCMS
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438169372237959171?s=200 -
She’s still Home Secretary.Roger said:
What about Patel?Big_G_NorthWales said:
If true happy with all thatScott_xP said:Reshuffle latest:
Robert Jenrick sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Robert Buckland sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Gavin Williamson sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Raab likely to be demoted from FCDO to justice secretary
Amanda Milling likely to be sacked
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1438135869379067907
0 -
Seems several ministers have gone into no 10 to be confirmed as no changeDecrepiterJohnL said:
What about Patel? is a good question. Why was she at Number 10 for no change? Was Raab bought off with a title originally meant for her? Priti as DPM even?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You cannot have everythingRoger said:
What about Patel?Big_G_NorthWales said:
If true happy with all thatScott_xP said:Reshuffle latest:
Robert Jenrick sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Robert Buckland sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Gavin Williamson sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Raab likely to be demoted from FCDO to justice secretary
Amanda Milling likely to be sacked
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/14381358693790679071 -
Nadhim Zahawi MP @NadhimZahawi has been appointed Secretary of State for Education @educationgovuk
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438171652723023879?s=20
i) He'll do a good job and
ii) the Anti-vaxxers will go absolutely nuts (aren't they already? - ed.)2 -
I see Hills have brought Truss in to 10s from 14s earlier for next leader. 12s top price now.0
-
Nadhim Zahawi Education0
-
Excellent appointmentCarlottaVance said:Nadhim Zahawi MP @NadhimZahawi has been appointed Secretary of State for Education @educationgovuk
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438171652723023879?s=20
i) He'll do a good job and
ii) the Anti-vaxxers will go absolutely nuts (aren't they already? - ed.)0 -
No major surprises from the reshuffle, Truss moves to Foreign Secretary as expected after a good stint getting trade deals and Raab replaces Buckland at Justice. Jenrick after being seen as a bit too supportive of developers is replaced by Gove, a safe pair of hands. Dowden, a media friendly figure, replaces Milling as Party co-chair with Dorries replacing him at culture.
Williamson finally leaves the Cabinet after falling popularity amongst party members and teachers alike, replaced by safe pair of hands Zahawi as Education Secretary.
Also notable that all those leaving the Cabinet backed Remain in the EU referendum, so the Cabinet further shifts towards Leavers0 -
Or, as Blair found with Brown, you also need to look out for the ones you do not sack ...justin124 said:How many sacked Ministers immediately go into 'revenge' mode? I recall that Norman Lamont took his ousting from the Treasury by Major very badly indeed - and the bitterness has continued to the extent that they are not on speaking terms. It went so deep that Lamont refused the customary exchange of letters when a Minister leaves office.Had he known about Major's affair with Edwina, he would have been well placed to effectively blackmail Major. 'Sack me and I blow the whistle on you!'
0 -
Did she really say that?CarlottaVance said:Charles V: "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse"
@vonderleyen today: I use English for economics and health, French for social policy and German to warn the Poles to respect the rule of law and our values. #StateOfTheUnion
https://twitter.com/lugaricano/status/1438049889787781122?s=20
Ooof, if so.0 -
Yes, absolutely correct. And no, 50,000 barbarian wankers on a shitty archipelago do not have the ‘right’ to wipe out an entire species. Humanity as a whole does not have that ‘right’.Stocky said:
So the question becomes, should a community be allowed to make a species extinct because it has a right to maintain its traditional culture? A good example of humans putting themselves above everything else on the planet.Leon said:Someone did the maths
In one day, Faroe Islanders managed to kill (for no reason) 2% of all the white sided dolphins on earth.
Good work, lads. Just another 49 days and they will all be gone
Ugh. Sickening.
The IWC must simply ban all Faroese whaling. End of. If they can’t control their blood-lust, then fuck their stupid ‘tradition’0 -
Good:
Ben Wallace will remain as defence secretary
https://twitter.com/larisamlbrown/status/1438171277781606407?s=203 -
I'm sure its all theatre and they knew going in, but I like the thought that they were sweating a bit - they knew they weren't sacked outright, but maybe they didn't know if they would be moved or not. Probably a good idea for a PM to keep them on edge.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Seems several ministers have gone into no 10 to be confirmed as no changeDecrepiterJohnL said:
What about Patel? is a good question. Why was she at Number 10 for no change? Was Raab bought off with a title originally meant for her? Priti as DPM even?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You cannot have everythingRoger said:
What about Patel?Big_G_NorthWales said:
If true happy with all thatScott_xP said:Reshuffle latest:
Robert Jenrick sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Robert Buckland sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Gavin Williamson sacked outright, removed from Cabinet
Raab likely to be demoted from FCDO to justice secretary
Amanda Milling likely to be sacked
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/14381358693790679071 -
I think Lamont could be justifiably upset that he was sacked for trying to sort out the mess that his own boss had made in the first place. It was Major who pushed so hard for the UK to join the ERM and then when it all went tits up - as was inevitable - he blamed it all on Lamont.justin124 said:How many sacked Ministers immediately go into 'revenge' mode? I recall that Norman Lamont took his ousting from the Treasury by Major very badly indeed - and the bitterness has continued to the extent that they are not on speaking terms. It went so deep that Lamont refused the customary exchange of letters when a Minister leaves office.Had he known about Major's affair with Edwina, he would have been well placed to effectively blackmail Major. 'Sack me and I blow the whistle on you!'
1 -
The enmity between Major and Lamont thawed several years ago I think.justin124 said:How many sacked Ministers immediately go into 'revenge' mode? I recall that Norman Lamont took his ousting from the Treasury by Major very badly indeed - and the bitterness has continued to the extent that they are not on speaking terms. It went so deep that Lamont refused the customary exchange of letters when a Minister leaves office.Had he known about Major's affair with Edwina, he would have been well placed to effectively blackmail Major. 'Sack me and I blow the whistle on you!'
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No, I think the MEP was reflecting on the mix of languages she delivered her speech in.MattW said:
Did she really say that?CarlottaVance said:Charles V: "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse"
@vonderleyen today: I use English for economics and health, French for social policy and German to warn the Poles to respect the rule of law and our values. #StateOfTheUnion
https://twitter.com/lugaricano/status/1438049889787781122?s=20
Ooof, if so.0 -
Liz Truss's appointment has to up there with Caligula's horse0
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Yep. He has been one of the few competent ministers in this Government.CarlottaVance said:Good:
Ben Wallace will remain as defence secretary
https://twitter.com/larisamlbrown/status/1438171277781606407?s=201 -
30,597 cases....201 deaths...
Big drop in case numbers, but don't forget, 300k cases in a couple of weeks lads...according to modellers ;-)1 -
Sounds like fun.CarlottaVance said:Putting the Culture in Culture Wars:
Left wing snowflakes are killing comedy, tearing down historic statues, removing books from universities, dumbing down panto, removing Christ from Christmas and suppressing free speech. Sadly, it must be true, history does repeat itself. It will be music next.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/945973216778031110?s=20
She's there to be the pantomime villain, which works with culture.0 -
I agree with you. Lamont also had a big role in Major's 1990 leadership campaign. Not surprised he felt pissed off!Richard_Tyndall said:
I think Lamont could be justifiably upset that he was sacked for trying to sort out the mess that his own boss had made in the first place. It was Major who pushed so hard for the UK to join the ERM and then when it all went tits up - as was inevitable - he blamed it all on Lamont.justin124 said:How many sacked Ministers immediately go into 'revenge' mode? I recall that Norman Lamont took his ousting from the Treasury by Major very badly indeed - and the bitterness has continued to the extent that they are not on speaking terms. It went so deep that Lamont refused the customary exchange of letters when a Minister leaves office.Had he known about Major's affair with Edwina, he would have been well placed to effectively blackmail Major. 'Sack me and I blow the whistle on you!'
1 -
Oh, I don’t agree with the rise, nor the specific tax used, nor the way it was presented. But I’m in awe of the Chief Whip for getting it through almost unanimously, against what must have been quite considerable private opposition from MPs.Philip_Thompson said:
Under the circumstances I'm loathe to call that a good job but yes you're right. For a whip that is impressive.Sandpit said:
He did a bloody good job last week, getting all but two Tory MPs to line up and vote for a tax rise.CarlottaVance said:The Rt Hon Mark Spencer MP @Mark_Spencer remains Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Chief Whip)
#Reshuffle
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438166425064157190?s=20
Seems Williamson's days of knowing where the bodies are is long over.1 -
Andrew LilicoFrancisUrquhart said:30,597 cases....201 deaths...
Big drop in case numbers, but don't forget, 300k cases in a couple of weeks lads...according to modellers ;-)
@andrew_lilico
·
11m
Journalists still using this 7k hospitalisations/day figure. Not their fault - how are they to know how incredible it now is?0 -
*serious point*
This reshuffle doesn’t look totally mad.
On big key issues - housing, schools, NHS, even Tory Party machine - the PM now has sensible people with a track record of getting stuff done.
Liz Truss knows the globe. Trade used to be a big part of Foreign Office.
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1438173357585874961?s=202 -
Must be some kind of mistake retaining him then.Richard_Tyndall said:
Yep. He has been one of the few competent ministers in this Government.CarlottaVance said:Good:
Ben Wallace will remain as defence secretary
https://twitter.com/larisamlbrown/status/1438171277781606407?s=201 -
Well we all know Prof Peston has superior knowledge of maths and science than the likes of JVT, and thus always ahead of the curve....rottenborough said:
Andrew LilicoFrancisUrquhart said:30,597 cases....201 deaths...
Big drop in case numbers, but don't forget, 300k cases in a couple of weeks lads...according to modellers ;-)
@andrew_lilico
·
11m
Journalists still using this 7k hospitalisations/day figure. Not their fault - how are they to know how incredible it now is?0 -
What a complete helmet* Marko is.
Injury to Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton is for show, claims Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-to-mercedes-lewis-hamilton-is-for-show-claims-red-bull-adviser-helmut-marko-zrhxp88l9
*Did you see what I did there?
Honestly Red Bull is team full of utter Mark Recklesses.2 -
That’s awfully harsh on Mr Reckless, to be mentioned in the same sentence as Dr Marko.TheScreamingEagles said:What a complete helmet* Marko is.
Injury to Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton is for show, claims Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-to-mercedes-lewis-hamilton-is-for-show-claims-red-bull-adviser-helmut-marko-zrhxp88l9
*Did you see what I did there?
Honestly Red Bull is team full of utter Mark Recklesses.0 -
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Minor point on Zahawi going to education.
When he was an ed minister, I was always struck that when asking for a dept comment, it wd often come under his name rather than a "spokesperson" - more unusual than it sounds.
Not sure what this means, but seemed across the minutiae.
https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1438174047955791878?s=200 -
I don't think the Faroes will be making dolphins extinct any time soon. It's about the size of Perth, in ability to consume dolphins.Leon said:
Yes, absolutely correct. And no, 50,000 barbarian wankers on a shitty archipelago do not have the ‘right’ to wipe out an entire species. Humanity as a whole does not have that ‘right’.Stocky said:
So the question becomes, should a community be allowed to make a species extinct because it has a right to maintain its traditional culture? A good example of humans putting themselves above everything else on the planet.Leon said:Someone did the maths
In one day, Faroe Islanders managed to kill (for no reason) 2% of all the white sided dolphins on earth.
Good work, lads. Just another 49 days and they will all be gone
Ugh. Sickening.
The IWC must simply ban all Faroese whaling. End of. If they can’t control their blood-lust, then fuck their stupid ‘tradition’0 -
Certainly a wellknown adultress!rottenborough said:-2 -
Yesrottenborough said:0 -
Excellent appt - best of the bunch.CarlottaVance said:Nadhim Zahawi MP @NadhimZahawi has been appointed Secretary of State for Education @educationgovuk
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438171652723023879?s=20
i) He'll do a good job and
ii) the Anti-vaxxers will go absolutely nuts (aren't they already? - ed.)0 -
But what about Truss?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Both are utter c**** who deserve red hot pokers up their arses.Sandpit said:
That’s awfully harsh on Mr Reckless, to be mentioned in the same sentence as Dr Marko.TheScreamingEagles said:What a complete helmet* Marko is.
Injury to Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton is for show, claims Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-to-mercedes-lewis-hamilton-is-for-show-claims-red-bull-adviser-helmut-marko-zrhxp88l9
*Did you see what I did there?
Honestly Red Bull is team full of utter Mark Recklesses.0 -
Arrogant white western nations must continue to impose their worldview on lesser nations.Leon said:
Yes, absolutely correct. And no, 50,000 barbarian wankers on a shitty archipelago do not have the ‘right’ to wipe out an entire species. Humanity as a whole does not have that ‘right’.Stocky said:
So the question becomes, should a community be allowed to make a species extinct because it has a right to maintain its traditional culture? A good example of humans putting themselves above everything else on the planet.Leon said:Someone did the maths
In one day, Faroe Islanders managed to kill (for no reason) 2% of all the white sided dolphins on earth.
Good work, lads. Just another 49 days and they will all be gone
Ugh. Sickening.
The IWC must simply ban all Faroese whaling. End of. If they can’t control their blood-lust, then fuck their stupid ‘tradition’0 -
Probably just a publisher's publicity stunt. They were universally slammed.rottenborough said:0 -
If he really said that, there should be repercussions inside the sport. The loudmouth's gone a little too far this time.TheScreamingEagles said:What a complete helmet* Marko is.
Injury to Mercedes’ Lewis Hamilton is for show, claims Red Bull adviser Helmut Marko
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-to-mercedes-lewis-hamilton-is-for-show-claims-red-bull-adviser-helmut-marko-zrhxp88l9
*Did you see what I did there?
Honestly Red Bull is team full of utter Mark Recklesses.0 -
Then we should all be grateful. Noble Senator Incitatus gave several celebrated speeches on relations with the Parthian Empire.Roger said:Liz Truss's appointment has to up there with Caligula's horse
On the one hand he's alleged to be the kind of emollient character suited to smoothing feathers ruffled by Williamson - and he might even be competent!CarlottaVance said:Nadhim Zahawi MP @NadhimZahawi has been appointed Secretary of State for Education @educationgovuk
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1438171652723023879?s=20
i) He'll do a good job and
ii) the Anti-vaxxers will go absolutely nuts (aren't they already? - ed.)
On the other hand, he's not a Revolutionary Marxist. The NEU will hate him.0
