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Will Biden’s net approval go negative? – politicalbetting.com

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    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,141

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1428809895927758850

    Somebody has had a word with him, thank God for that. An utter liability

    How long will it take him to read the Famous Five stories though - 6 months? a year?
    Well you'd know, how long did it take you?
    Last time? One chapter a night to my daughter. 20 books. About a year.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,124

    Well my day has taken a turn for the better. Had to take our diabetic cat to the emergency vet last night after he had a fit and was told he was probably permanently blind due to detached retinas caused by high blood pressure; after spending the night there it appears to have been temporary caused by a hypo. Also he was so enraged they weren’t able to do any of the suggested monitoring, which halves the cost of £700-1000 (!).

    I shall attempt to be sweet natured for the rest of the day.

    Glad the problem isn't permanent (for your cat, that is, not your sweet nature...)

    However, as a non-pet owner, this does throw up a question. How the **** do the poorer segments of society afford vet fees? Our neighbour has an elderly cat that needs monthly shots, and it is costing them an arm and a leg (not literally). Are there many cats, dogs et al out there not getting proper care because their owners cannot afford the fees?
    PDSA do a good job, but I guess their treatments are rationed, particulary at the top end of treatment. Gives a tiny insight into what it’s like for the uninsured in an entirely privatised health system.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Roger said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    I don't think you've got the hang of this at all. Johnson's government has been showing the rest of the world how to do it. You can nit-pick as much as you like. Those are the facts.
    Yes, sorry I forgot. I meant to say that Johnson's government's response to Covid has been world-beating, they've worked tirelessly round the clock, 24/7, they've done whatever it takes, they've wrapped their arms around the British people (especially those in care homes who had a protective shield)............ So much better than all the other muppet countries around the world.
    Correct. And as for the 131,487 deaths -as Robert Thompson wearing his anthropologists hat will confirm- they were people who were going to die anyway.
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    NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    edited August 2021
    Irrespective of the outcome of the Afghanistan situation Biden is now appearing as unable to function. Does he limp along as a figure head, isolated from the media as much as possible or does he go?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,035
    Thanks for the replies wrt vet fees. A whole world I know very little about...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Insightful report from the UK staging post for the Kabul evacuation. Thankfully it does appear that many of the people on the flights are families.
    https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/2021/08/19/hundreds-rescued-from-afghanistan-arrive-in-dubai-on-military-flight/
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    edited August 2021
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    I don't think you've got the hang of this at all. Johnson's government has been showing the rest of the world how to do it. You can nit-pick as much as you like. Those are the facts.
    Yes, sorry I forgot. I meant to say that Johnson's government's response to Covid has been world-beating, they've worked tirelessly round the clock, 24/7, they've done whatever it takes, they've wrapped their arms around the British people (especially those in care homes who had a protective shield)............ So much better than all the other muppet countries around the world.
    Correct. And as for the 131,487 deaths -as Robert Thompson wearing his anthropologists hat will confirm- they were people who were going to die anyway.
    Dura Ace's thread header (discussed below) on UK strategy and the armed forces, with its entirely justified remarks on the Red Arrows, reminded me of an interesting bit of pandemic exotica which I came across by chance the other day.

    Build your own Red Arrows-type Hawk in NHS markings:

    https://uk.airfix.com/products/bae-hawk-nhs-livery-competition-winning-design-a73100

    Edit: with an element of the price going to an NHS charity.

    Slightly odd it's not a model of the actual NHS Spitfire:

    https://www.aircraftrestorationcompany.com/nhsspitfire
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    Went on a night out in the toon last night. The clubs were packed to the rafters, people were happily throwing up on the street, and the police had their hands full. All is well and good in the world again.

    Sounds like Aberdeen

    :smile:
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all! Biden is toast, but as I never expected him to be more than a caretaker that isn't a surprise. The challenge for America is simple. Too many of the GOP voters are dumb and like being lied to.

    We know for a fact that Trump signed a deal to hand Afghanistan over to the Taliban by May this year, yet GOP cheerleaders like HYUFD still point to the % under Taliban rule under Trump and what it is now and try to claim that Biden "lost Afghanistan".

    Watch Trump come back. Yes it was Trump's idea and Trump signed the deal and Trump was boasting just weeks ago that he should get all the credit and now they have deleted all the social media of this. Morons will believe the lie that Trump didn't do it and its all Biden.

    However doddering and decrepit President Biden is (and he really is) the answer is not to re-elect President doddering and decrepit and psychotic.

    Yes, the American public wanted to get troops out of Afghanistan after 20 years (which is what’s driven Biden presumably)

    But knowing America, the worse outcome for them is it be made to look weak and indecisive. That’s where they are now - and I think that outweighs any possible gains that there were there politically from a swift withdrawal
    For good or ill, the administration will have weighed that against the political cost of reneging on Trump’s deal and seeing the war continue.
    The state of comparative peace since the deal (with the notable exception of regular assassination of significant Afghan leaders who might have opposed the Taliban) was not something which would have continued.

    In domestic political terms, Biden probably made the right decision. But he has botched its execution horribly.
    I think that's a really important point. If Biden had reneged on Trump's Doha deal, Afghanistan may well have exploded into all-out war. It's in a bad place now, but it would probably have been much worse if the Taliban had seen a 'good faith' agreement torn to shreds.
    Not sure about all our war, but certainly regular US casualties (of which there have been none in the last year).
    And I'm damn sure there wouldn't have been anything near a majority of either party supporting it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    I have returned.

    Has Biden resigned yet?

    Do you retain your teeth ?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    I don't think you've got the hang of this at all. Johnson's government has been showing the rest of the world how to do it. You can nit-pick as much as you like. Those are the facts.
    Yes, sorry I forgot. I meant to say that Johnson's government's response to Covid has been world-beating, they've worked tirelessly round the clock, 24/7, they've done whatever it takes, they've wrapped their arms around the British people (especially those in care homes who had a protective shield)............ So much better than all the other muppet countries around the world.
    Correct. And as for the 131,487 deaths -as Robert Thompson wearing his anthropologists hat will confirm- they were people who were going to die anyway.
    Sadly, yes, many were. All of the deaths attributed to covid whom I know personally (thankfully not a huge number) fall into that category. That is, they were very likely to die that month or the next. As they were in many other countries - between whom recording is wildly inconsistent. Which is why the measure to compare is excess deaths.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Went on a night out in the toon last night. The clubs were packed to the rafters, people were happily throwing up on the street, and the police had their hands full. All is well and good in the world again.

    Camden was a similar experience last night, though we only went to a bar until a about 2am. Our friends who stayed out later are yet to rise and we're supposed to be meeting them for brunch in an hour!
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    I don't think you've got the hang of this at all. Johnson's government has been showing the rest of the world how to do it. You can nit-pick as much as you like. Those are the facts.
    Yes, sorry I forgot. I meant to say that Johnson's government's response to Covid has been world-beating, they've worked tirelessly round the clock, 24/7, they've done whatever it takes, they've wrapped their arms around the British people (especially those in care homes who had a protective shield)............ So much better than all the other muppet countries around the world.
    Correct. And as for the 131,487 deaths -as Robert Thompson wearing his anthropologists hat will confirm- they were people who were going to die anyway.
    Quite a bit of our response to covid has been shaped by the rather modern inability to accept that they absolutely were going to die anyway, and so will everyone else.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Irrespective of the outcome of the Afghanistan situation Biden is now appearing as unable to function. Does he limp along as a figure head, isolated from the media as much as possible or does he go?

    You're being melodramatic, he's as rubbish at forming complete sentences as he ever was but he's functioning fine. Something else will come up, he'll bomb some different brown people and the media will be like, ooh, he's so presidential.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Irrespective of the outcome of the Afghanistan situation Biden is now appearing as unable to function. Does he limp along as a figure head, isolated from the media as much as possible or does he go?

    Where would he go to? Being 'Off one's trolly' has never been a bar to high office in the States or here for that matter. You don't need to go back further than .........July 2019.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    2 USAF and 1 RAF heading up to Kabul. and a Kam Air Airbus 340 just lit up on the ground at KBL. never heard of them but Afghanistan's largest private airline apparently.

    A Mil Mi has just left heading towards pakistan also.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,449
    maaarsh said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    I don't think you've got the hang of this at all. Johnson's government has been showing the rest of the world how to do it. You can nit-pick as much as you like. Those are the facts.
    Yes, sorry I forgot. I meant to say that Johnson's government's response to Covid has been world-beating, they've worked tirelessly round the clock, 24/7, they've done whatever it takes, they've wrapped their arms around the British people (especially those in care homes who had a protective shield)............ So much better than all the other muppet countries around the world.
    Correct. And as for the 131,487 deaths -as Robert Thompson wearing his anthropologists hat will confirm- they were people who were going to die anyway.
    Quite a bit of our response to covid has been shaped by the rather modern inability to accept that they absolutely were going to die anyway, and so will everyone else.
    As Mark E Smith once - characteristically gnomically - said, 99 per cent of non smokers die.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,390
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:
    That’s a very well written piece, eloquently argued.
    Yes, that's a great article. I think we tend to underestimate Dura because he strays towards the malcolm_g tendency of pure invective at times. More like this would be really good.
    It’s an excellent piece, I’ve not been here that long. I’m amazed it’s the same guy who posts below the line comments. I find it hard to disagree with any of the comments really.
    I don't agree.

    The UK is a highly interconnected economy and our prosperity depends on the stability of the existing global trading system, and the security of its sealanes.

    Therefore we have to have a blue water capability - we can't just draw a ring around the UK 200 miles in diameter and ignore the rest, or issues elsewhere will soon affect us and arrive on our doorstep, where it will be too late to influence them.
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    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Pulpstar said:

    Well my day has taken a turn for the better. Had to take our diabetic cat to the emergency vet last night after he had a fit and was told he was probably permanently blind due to detached retinas caused by high blood pressure; after spending the night there it appears to have been temporary caused by a hypo. Also he was so enraged they weren’t able to do any of the suggested monitoring, which halves the cost of £700-1000 (!).

    I shall attempt to be sweet natured for the rest of the day.

    Glad the problem isn't permanent (for your cat, that is, not your sweet nature...)

    However, as a non-pet owner, this does throw up a question. How the **** do the poorer segments of society afford vet fees? Our neighbour has an elderly cat that needs monthly shots, and it is costing them an arm and a leg (not literally). Are there many cats, dogs et al out there not getting proper care because their owners cannot afford the fees?
    We had to have our rabbit put down at the emergency vets a few weeks back. Was a bit over £300. Could have done with my M4 being able to shoot something slightly higher calibre than plastic BBs tbh
    Vet pricing is quite mysterious. Over here it cost me more to get a blood test for a cat than it did to castrate a goat.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    valleyboy said:

    The unopposed appointment of Alex Cole-Hamilton MSP as new leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats was about item no 15 on the news yesterday. Talk about picking a bad day for that announcement! Totally drowned out by Afghanistan, the SNP/Green government launch and lots of other things. The brief clip of his annoying pseudo-oration was a real stinker.

    For a small party, the SLDs used to have a lot of talent. These days they are in the same boat as Scottish Labour: a talent desert.

    Funnily enough, Tory leader Douglas Ross is fast overtaking SLab MP Ian Murray as the sanest and most persuasive Unionist spokesperson. Never thought I’d see that!

    By far the best and most credible recovery for the Unionists would be a resurgence of the old coalition pals SLab and SLD. Judging by their two new leaders that ain’t happening any time soon.

    It will be interesting to see how the all new Starmer Labour party copes with such ideas. Labour were happy with the idea of the LibDems propping Labour up but having then propped the Tories up it was Consternation and Uproar.

    Supposedly Labour have moved towards support for proportionate voting systems. If they have then they will have to accept the idea of coalitions and some of those won't involve Labour. Are they grown ups now or illogical partisan hacks?
    My guesstimate:

    Labour Party in England
    40% grown ups
    20% illogical partisan hacks
    40% Citizen Smiths

    Scottish Labour
    20% grown ups
    60% illogical partisan hacks
    10% Citizen Smiths
    10% Orange Lodge

    Welsh Labour
    50% grown ups
    30% illogical partisan hacks
    10% Citizen Smiths
    10% last of the true Britons
    SLAB, you may be right from your perch in Sweden 😀. Welsh Labour, I don't think so.

    Llafur:

    20% grown ups -- in which category we can put the uninspiring, but reasonably sincere, Drakeford

    70% self-interested -- In Wales, there is no working economy. Many hundreds of millions of pounds of public money is used in providing sinecures for Labour cronies, in return for which these people support Labour in any way they can. In the South Wales Valleys, the choices for life improvement are either (i) emigration, (ii) a life of crime or (iii) a life in the Labour party. A typical specimen is the vacuous Sophie Howe, the very well-paid Future Generations Commissioner. Sje tweets every now and then, for ~100k a year.

    10 % failures -- normally English. These are people like Jane Davidson, who have no connection to Wales, failed to have a political career in England because of general incompetence & fuckwittery, and so moved to Wales, where they prospered in the low-grade atmosphere of Llafur. It is Small Pond Syndrome.

    Llafur has literally got only ONE thing in its favour.

    It is not the Welsh Conservative Party.

    That one thing has enabled it to remain in power for 20 years.
    You dont like Wales Llafur much do you?
    Do you still live in Cymru?
    You dont like Wales Llafur much do you?

    As I may have mentioned before, one of my (now deceased) uncles was a Labour MP for a Valleys constituency.

    He prospered, his constituents didn't.😀

    There are some good people in Llafur, but (speaking generally) it is very, very, very bad for a country not to have a credible & functioning opposition. Wales is in a very, very, very bad place.

    Of course, it is not Llafur's fault that there is no credible opposition.

    Do you still live in Cymru?

    After a struggle, I voted in the Senedd elections for Mabon ap Gwynfor. He was unimpressive, but he said something about second homes that I liked.

    I noted that the swing in Pembrokeshire was pretty good for Llafur.
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    Thanks for the replies wrt vet fees. A whole world I know very little about...

    Nip round to the supermarket and buy some cat food. You will likely be given a voucher for their pet insurance plan.

    Also, read the ingredients and almost certainly there will only be 4% of chicken/fish/whatever flavour you bought. I've not looked into it but suspect this is the legal minimum. Some of the premium brands go higher.

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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,977

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    One hour to buy a pizza?
    At the risk of going all Godwin that's the attitude that beat back the Nazi invasion.
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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    2 USAF and 1 RAF heading up to Kabul. and a Kam Air Airbus 340 just lit up on the ground at KBL. never heard of them but Afghanistan's largest private airline apparently.

    A Mil Mi has just left heading towards pakistan also.

    the helicopter went a few miles ENE of the city and is now back in Kabul. wonder who or what it picked up.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,390
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain’s MPs this week uttered one long howl of anguish over Afghanistan. Their immediate targets were Joe Biden and Boris Johnson, politicians who just happened to be on the watch when Kabul’s pack of cards collapsed. But their real concern was that a collective 20-year experiment in “exporting western values” to Afghanistan had fallen into chaos. MPs wanted someone other than themselves to blame. A politician is never so angry as when proved wrong.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/west-nation-building-fantasy-afghanistan-boris-johnson



    An interesting article but the idea that a country gets what it deserves and it isn't for other countries to intervene has it's limitations. The world is a little too interconnected for that and anyway why shouldn't those that have the means help the oppressed whichever country they live in.

    Jenkins has been arguing the same for years. He was against sanctions against South Africa and Rhodesia. He would now be against any action-not only military-if the Taliban resumed the rape of 11 year old girls.
    Jenkins doesn't believe in having a military at all.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,226

    Pulpstar said:

    Well my day has taken a turn for the better. Had to take our diabetic cat to the emergency vet last night after he had a fit and was told he was probably permanently blind due to detached retinas caused by high blood pressure; after spending the night there it appears to have been temporary caused by a hypo. Also he was so enraged they weren’t able to do any of the suggested monitoring, which halves the cost of £700-1000 (!).

    I shall attempt to be sweet natured for the rest of the day.

    Glad the problem isn't permanent (for your cat, that is, not your sweet nature...)

    However, as a non-pet owner, this does throw up a question. How the **** do the poorer segments of society afford vet fees? Our neighbour has an elderly cat that needs monthly shots, and it is costing them an arm and a leg (not literally). Are there many cats, dogs et al out there not getting proper care because their owners cannot afford the fees?
    We had to have our rabbit put down at the emergency vets a few weeks back. Was a bit over £300. Could have done with my M4 being able to shoot something slightly higher calibre than plastic BBs tbh
    Vet pricing is quite mysterious. Over here it cost me more to get a blood test for a cat than it did to castrate a goat.
    I am not going to make the joke. I'm not.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,390
    A European centred defensive alliance isn't credible without the participation of the UK.

    We provide about 25% of its military punch across the whole EU, and an even higher proportion of its expeditionary capability.

    Unlike for shellfish, sausages and financial services, where the EU can really shut us out if they want to, they cannot do so on any military structure because they need what we have. Therefore, they have to deal with us in real-politik as opposed to pompously insisting we help bring to life their federalist fantasies.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,644
    Cookie said:

    maaarsh said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    I don't think you've got the hang of this at all. Johnson's government has been showing the rest of the world how to do it. You can nit-pick as much as you like. Those are the facts.
    Yes, sorry I forgot. I meant to say that Johnson's government's response to Covid has been world-beating, they've worked tirelessly round the clock, 24/7, they've done whatever it takes, they've wrapped their arms around the British people (especially those in care homes who had a protective shield)............ So much better than all the other muppet countries around the world.
    Correct. And as for the 131,487 deaths -as Robert Thompson wearing his anthropologists hat will confirm- they were people who were going to die anyway.
    Quite a bit of our response to covid has been shaped by the rather modern inability to accept that they absolutely were going to die anyway, and so will everyone else.
    As Mark E Smith once - characteristically gnomically - said, 99 per cent of non smokers die.
    Only 99%?
  • Options

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    Brexit never made anyone go home though. Everyone had the right to remain.

    If people have chosen to go home because Britain is a bloody expensive country to live in if you're not working, and hospitality was closed by force of law because of a pandemic, then that's not Brexit related.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282

    Well my day has taken a turn for the better. Had to take our diabetic cat to the emergency vet last night after he had a fit and was told he was probably permanently blind due to detached retinas caused by high blood pressure; after spending the night there it appears to have been temporary caused by a hypo. Also he was so enraged they weren’t able to do any of the suggested monitoring, which halves the cost of £700-1000 (!).

    I shall attempt to be sweet natured for the rest of the day.

    Hope the fucker dies



    Only joking! Even Nat Cats should have Nine Lives
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    Brexit never made anyone go home though. Everyone had the right to remain.

    If people have chosen to go home because Britain is a bloody expensive country to live in if you're not working, and hospitality was closed by force of law because of a pandemic, then that's not Brexit related.
    It is if they subsequently were not allowed to return, especially if they had been at home when the leave to remain period was in force.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    Everyone else is “America, almost”

    A real ‘some animals are more equal than others’ moment here

    “For now, Biden appears to be sticking with the end-August deadline. He said on Friday that “any American who wants to come home -- we will get you home.” He said he would make a similar pledge to Afghan allies still stuck in the country, with a caveat.

    The Afghan refugees are “equally important, almost” as the U.S. citizens seeking to leave, he said.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability

    He really, really wants this to be over before the September 11th commemorations.
    On current evidence CNN will just edit coverage that day either way so he needn't have worried.
    Clarissa Ward has done a decent job reporting from Kabul.
    Though she has just now left:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/568820-cnns-clarissa-ward-departs-afghanistan-after-taliban-coverage
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    Pulpstar said:

    Well my day has taken a turn for the better. Had to take our diabetic cat to the emergency vet last night after he had a fit and was told he was probably permanently blind due to detached retinas caused by high blood pressure; after spending the night there it appears to have been temporary caused by a hypo. Also he was so enraged they weren’t able to do any of the suggested monitoring, which halves the cost of £700-1000 (!).

    I shall attempt to be sweet natured for the rest of the day.

    Glad the problem isn't permanent (for your cat, that is, not your sweet nature...)

    However, as a non-pet owner, this does throw up a question. How the **** do the poorer segments of society afford vet fees? Our neighbour has an elderly cat that needs monthly shots, and it is costing them an arm and a leg (not literally). Are there many cats, dogs et al out there not getting proper care because their owners cannot afford the fees?
    We had to have our rabbit put down at the emergency vets a few weeks back. Was a bit over £300. Could have done with my M4 being able to shoot something slightly higher calibre than plastic BBs tbh
    You paid £300......... to kill a rabbit??

    I am going to advise my daughters to become vets. Jeez Denise
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,289

    Thanks for the replies wrt vet fees. A whole world I know very little about...

    Nip round to the supermarket and buy some cat food. You will likely be given a voucher for their pet insurance plan.

    Also, read the ingredients and almost certainly there will only be 4% of chicken/fish/whatever flavour you bought. I've not looked into it but suspect this is the legal minimum. Some of the premium brands go higher.

    4% is indeed the legal minimum for an ingredient mentioned in promotion - for example "dog chews, with real chicken" probably only contains 4%. The safety standards for dog food are similarly loose, pretty much if a dog has been fed on the food for a few months and hasn't been killed specifically by the feed, the manufacturer is good to go.

    First rule of dog food, never buy from a supermarket
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,991
    mwadams said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1428809895927758850

    Somebody has had a word with him, thank God for that. An utter liability

    How long will it take him to read the Famous Five stories though - 6 months? a year?
    Well you'd know, how long did it take you?
    Last time? One chapter a night to my daughter. 20 books. About a year.
    And repeat when all finished, or on to something else - in my daughter’s case, Narnia.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,644

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    Brexit never made anyone go home though. Everyone had the right to remain.

    If people have chosen to go home because Britain is a bloody expensive country to live in if you're not working, and hospitality was closed by force of law because of a pandemic, then that's not Brexit related.
    Well it did. There is a difference between wanting to remain permanently and remain temporarily. It happened the other way around also. As mentioned before a friend of mine who decided to travel Europe on retiring in his motorhome had to return because of the time limits and had to live on his son's drive until he could sort out the situation by buying a house which he had no wish to do. But that was just another freedom gained by Brexit.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    A European centred defensive alliance isn't credible without the participation of the UK.

    We provide about 25% of its military punch across the whole EU, and an even higher proportion of its expeditionary capability.

    Unlike for shellfish, sausages and financial services, where the EU can really shut us out if they want to, they cannot do so on any military structure because they need what we have. Therefore, they have to deal with us in real-politik as opposed to pompously insisting we help bring to life their federalist fantasies.

    We hold all the cards?...

    We can barely rustle up 2000 HGV lorry drivers from the Army, and hardly any trucks for them to drive.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    Nigelb said:

    maaarsh said:

    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    Everyone else is “America, almost”

    A real ‘some animals are more equal than others’ moment here

    “For now, Biden appears to be sticking with the end-August deadline. He said on Friday that “any American who wants to come home -- we will get you home.” He said he would make a similar pledge to Afghan allies still stuck in the country, with a caveat.

    The Afghan refugees are “equally important, almost” as the U.S. citizens seeking to leave, he said.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability

    He really, really wants this to be over before the September 11th commemorations.
    On current evidence CNN will just edit coverage that day either way so he needn't have worried.
    Clarissa Ward has done a decent job reporting from Kabul.
    Though she has just now left:
    https://thehill.com/homenews/media/568820-cnns-clarissa-ward-departs-afghanistan-after-taliban-coverage
    More than decent, she's been the bravest reporter out there, and the most incisive. And a woman facing Taliban fighters

    It's a shame she's left, but she did an amazing job
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited August 2021

    A European centred defensive alliance isn't credible without the participation of the UK.

    We provide about 25% of its military punch across the whole EU, and an even higher proportion of its expeditionary capability.

    Unlike for shellfish, sausages and financial services, where the EU can really shut us out if they want to, they cannot do so on any military structure because they need what we have. Therefore, they have to deal with us in real-politik as opposed to pompously insisting we help bring to life their federalist fantasies.

    This is fact. Apart from the French & British no European nation has anything near complete force projection capabilities. Anyone who looks at the Anglo French co-operation on defence will know its the closest in Europe in practice. Yep, much more than Germany & France or whoever.

    The truth is that full spectrum force projection is just about viable for both nations but its thin though they do fill gaps in each others capability.

    Germany couldnt even be arsed run an airforce at weekends, something I found out from an acquanintance who was a 15+ year veteran of the Luftwaffe. Europe's biggest fish has a shocking military capability and readiness. There have and are attempts to reform it but seems no one fancies paying for it.



  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Afghanistan: Who is in charge in Kabul?

    Anyone willing to venture an answer?
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389
    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    ...and yet there are still large staff shortages...perhaps Romanians generally don't staff our restaurants?
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    IanB2 said:

    Thanks for the replies wrt vet fees. A whole world I know very little about...

    Nip round to the supermarket and buy some cat food. You will likely be given a voucher for their pet insurance plan.

    Also, read the ingredients and almost certainly there will only be 4% of chicken/fish/whatever flavour you bought. I've not looked into it but suspect this is the legal minimum. Some of the premium brands go higher.

    4% is indeed the legal minimum for an ingredient mentioned in promotion - for example "dog chews, with real chicken" probably only contains 4%. The safety standards for dog food are similarly loose, pretty much if a dog has been fed on the food for a few months and hasn't been killed specifically by the feed, the manufacturer is good to go.

    First rule of dog food, never buy from a supermarket
    We feed our lab on Kirkland dry food from Costco. It is as good or better than the food that our vets recommended. This is a handy site to compare dog food: https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0911/kirkland-signature-adult-dog
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    A European centred defensive alliance isn't credible without the participation of the UK.

    We provide about 25% of its military punch across the whole EU, and an even higher proportion of its expeditionary capability.

    Unlike for shellfish, sausages and financial services, where the EU can really shut us out if they want to, they cannot do so on any military structure because they need what we have. Therefore, they have to deal with us in real-politik as opposed to pompously insisting we help bring to life their federalist fantasies.

    It isn't credible with the UK.

    It isn't credible.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited August 2021
    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    The argument goes

    "Only (real amount/10) are going to come here, what's the problem?"

    then, a few years later

    "The economy couldn't survive without (real amount)"

    So the people in charge, and their supporters, never have to admit they got it wrong
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,229
    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    Source please.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    Its alright Kinny mate.

    We know who you think the enemy is.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    Surely, if you want to kill a rabbit, you make sure the kids are away for the day, have a stiff whisky, go into the garden, grab the rabbit firmly by the back legs, hold it upside down - and hit it on the head very hard with a hammer. Not for the squeamish, but instantaneous and humane. Cost: one large scotch

    Taking it to a vet to be put down is surely more prolonged, terrifying and traumatic for everyone, including the rabbit. Cost: £300

    What am I missing?
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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391
    isam said:

    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    The argument goes

    "Only (real amount/10) are going to come here, what's the problem?"

    then, a few years later

    "The economy couldn't survive without (real amount)"

    So the people in charge, and their supporters, never have to admit they got it wrong
    It's not getting it wrong if you're lying deliberately, I suppose
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could reason with and come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    Why was the choice two 70 something year olds? I can't understand that at all

    I actually discussed this at breakfast with my missus, and my conclusion was late 40s to 60 is the right age profile for a country's leader. The kids have normally grown up, you've had a career,enough time for the follies of youth to be a distant memory, but not an old Gramps who might have a senior moment or two.
  • Options

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    Brexit never made anyone go home though. Everyone had the right to remain.

    If people have chosen to go home because Britain is a bloody expensive country to live in if you're not working, and hospitality was closed by force of law because of a pandemic, then that's not Brexit related.
    It is if they subsequently were not allowed to return, especially if they had been at home when the leave to remain period was in force.
    That's categorically not the case though. Everyone who had right to remain is allowed to return.

    If they're choosing not to, that's another matter.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I have returned.

    Has Biden resigned yet?

    The situation is Afghanistan is so bad, its tempting to wonder whether there's some kind of design to it.

    Imagine you wanted to ensure America never did this kind of thing again. You wanted to destroy America's standing in the world. You wanted to empower its enemies. You wanted to poison its relationships and alliances for good.

    What we are seeing isn't so very far from what you would do, is it?
  • Options
    Yokes said:

    Afghanistan: Who is in charge in Kabul?

    Anyone willing to venture an answer?

    How many Taliban are actually in Kabul ?
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389
    isam said:

    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    The argument goes

    "Only (real amount/10) are going to come here, what's the problem?"

    then, a few years later

    "The economy couldn't survive without (real amount)"

    So the people in charge, and their supporters, never have to admit they got it wrong
    ...oh, right, and the staff shortages in large areas are examples of our economy surving very well?

    An economy grows and thrives by workers within the economy. If we don't have the workers we will not grow fast enough to pay our furlong debts.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
  • Options
    BBC just now

    The only person to blame for this is Biden

    Pen Farthing NOWZAD director
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    I know, right? How can anyone believe this literally crazy idea that a new bat virus with weirdly effective mutations came from a nearby lab, the only one of its type on the planet, engineering new bat viruses with weirdly effective mutations? It's the stuff of fairly tales. It's beyond Fake News, it's dangerous fantasy. I am going to send an angry postcard to Channel 4 also describing my new theory about the moon landings
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Contrarian, the execution is shockingly bad.

    Not quite as bad as the Roman disposition ahead of the Battle of Arausio, but not much better.

    Mr. Leon, while a statement of the obvious for many, any spotlight on the origin is a good thing as it reduces the obfuscation and reminds the world that this came from China and was far worse due to the regime trying to cover it up.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389
    edited August 2021

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    Brexit never made anyone go home though. Everyone had the right to remain.

    If people have chosen to go home because Britain is a bloody expensive country to live in if you're not working, and hospitality was closed by force of law because of a pandemic, then that's not Brexit related.
    It is if they subsequently were not allowed to return, especially if they had been at home when the leave to remain period was in force.
    That's categorically not the case though. Everyone who had right to remain is allowed to return.

    If they're choosing not to, that's another matter.
    ...perhaps they are fed up of the xenophobic or racist attitudes of some of the locals? or politicians?...or keyboard warriors?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    No there is the leak from the G7 in June where he assured the other nations....

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability

    Now he doesn't even remember that the likes of UK and France are there and risking special forces to try and help get people out.

    If this was Trump, that's par for the course. This is supposed to be return to the grown ups running things.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Yokes said:

    Afghanistan: Who is in charge in Kabul?

    Anyone willing to venture an answer?

    Andrew Neil said in his Farage interview there was a rumour going around Washington the Americans had to buy fuel from the Taliban to keep their operations going.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    Your staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited August 2021

    Yokes said:

    Afghanistan: Who is in charge in Kabul?

    Anyone willing to venture an answer?

    How many Taliban are actually in Kabul ?
    Low to mid thousands reportedly but its what Taliban. Haqqani is running security but the Taliban leadership, many of whom whos origins are concentrated in certain provinces, are sending their own guys in to Kabul, an indication of the complexity of the relationships between various factions.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Leon said:

    Surely, if you want to kill a rabbit, you make sure the kids are away for the day, have a stiff whisky, go into the garden, grab the rabbit firmly by the back legs, hold it upside down - and hit it on the head very hard with a hammer. Not for the squeamish, but instantaneous and humane. Cost: one large scotch

    Taking it to a vet to be put down is surely more prolonged, terrifying and traumatic for everyone, including the rabbit. Cost: £300

    What am I missing?

    As a student I used to (have to) kill frogs in a similar manner.

    As a (fairly) unscrupulous male I would also kill the frogs the female students needed.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Leon said:

    Surely, if you want to kill a rabbit, you make sure the kids are away for the day, have a stiff whisky, go into the garden, grab the rabbit firmly by the back legs, hold it upside down - and hit it on the head very hard with a hammer. Not for the squeamish, but instantaneous and humane. Cost: one large scotch

    Taking it to a vet to be put down is surely more prolonged, terrifying and traumatic for everyone, including the rabbit. Cost: £300

    What am I missing?

    Anywhere (semi)-rural, a fox or stoat will do the job for free, and enjoy it.

    Anywhere rundown & urban, feral cats will be an adequate substitute.

    Anywhere posh & urban, then pedigree cats are normally vicious killers. And you will have the added satisfaction that the cat will bring the evidence home to present to their owner, hopefully at 2.00 am in the morning. 😉
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    No there is the leak from the G7 in June where he assured the other nations....

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability
    Obviously they're not going to be providing personnel to protect the British Embassy in the event that *the entire Afghan army collapsed, the president buggered of to Tajikistan with a plane full of money and the Taliban took control of the entire country*. The British can't have taken them to mean that, they don't have cornflakes for brains.
  • Options
    Leon said:

    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens

    Ch4 needs to be careful, as you get banmed from all social media for suggesting such things.....
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
    America is not menaced by a possible coup (or at least, nowhere near as much)

    Biden is absolute shite, especially on foreign policy. And Trump did some things oddly well in his madness

    But really, the Trumpite threat to democracy does outrank everything else, in seriousness
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Leon said:

    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens

    It was always viable. The rock solid case on the Chinese authorities lying through their arse about the original breakout in Wuhan in particular its timelines, the nature of the disease and the casualty rate leaves open the possibility that they were covering up a serious mess of some sort. Its not a big leap.



  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    Taz said:

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    It’s a marathon not a sprint, mate.

    They have not got anywhere near the numbers jabbed they need to and we will see what happens in the next couple of months.
    According to OWID, Australia is at about 40% of people with at least 1 jab, 20% fully jabbed.
    That's roughly where the UK was in mid-April, and Western Europe was at the end of May.
    Not good, but they've done the most vulnerable in terms of preventing deaths.
    No they haven't. You've got to remember that the structure of the vaccination programme in Australia, such as it is, is rather different to that in badly affected countries in Europe and North America. AIUI the Australians purposely didn't set out to go in order from the most to the least vulnerable; rather, they tried to direct a large fraction of their resources to younger adults, on the principle that this would help to suppress any outbreaks as and when the disease managed to breach their defences, and on the assumption that their border controls and snap lockdowns would buy them bags of time to mop up all the vulnerable later.

    This from the end of last month:

    NSW is lagging behind many other states and territories when it comes to vaccinating its elderly population with fewer than 40% of over-70s fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

    New data released by the federal government on Wednesday provides a state breakdown of national vaccination numbers for the first time. The figures reveal that of the almost 1 million people aged over 70 in NSW, 77% have received a first vaccine dose and 39% have received a second dose.

    Victoria’s figures are similar, with 78% of its over-70s receiving one dose and 36% fully vaccinated.


    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jul/29/just-39-of-nsw-residents-over-70-are-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-despite-push-for-jabs

    They're also going to struggle to reach the very high levels of vaccination that they're going to need to come close to putting a lid on Covid. Hesitancy in Australia is substantially higher than in the UK, the supply of mRNA vaccines is constrained, and the reputation of AZ has been pretty much destroyed. It is not a pretty picture.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
    America is not menaced by a possible coup (or at least, nowhere near as much)

    Biden is absolute shite, especially on foreign policy. And Trump did some things oddly well in his madness

    But really, the Trumpite threat to democracy does outrank everything else, in seriousness
    The 'threat to democracy' being that he is refusing to accept the result of 2020....? OK.

    But the the democrats consistently claimed 2016 was bent, too.

    That's not a threat to democracy, though. I suppose you could argue that both sides' push to utterly discredit the others victory only achieved one thing. Discrediting the American system itself.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    No there is the leak from the G7 in June where he assured the other nations....

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability
    Obviously they're not going to be providing personnel to protect the British Embassy in the event that *the entire Afghan army collapsed, the president buggered of to Tajikistan with a plane full of money and the Taliban took control of the entire country*. The British can't have taken them to mean that, they don't have cornflakes for brains.
    I can’t help but feel there are some gaps in your reading of this crisis
  • Options

    isam said:

    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    The argument goes

    "Only (real amount/10) are going to come here, what's the problem?"

    then, a few years later

    "The economy couldn't survive without (real amount)"

    So the people in charge, and their supporters, never have to admit they got it wrong
    ...oh, right, and the staff shortages in large areas are examples of our economy surving very well?

    An economy grows and thrives by workers within the economy. If we don't have the workers we will not grow fast enough to pay our furlong debts.
    And the answers are capital investment, worker training and higher pay.

    Which leads to increased productivity and a growing economy.

    Yet some people prefer the twin exploitations of lower pay and higher house prices.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282
    Yokes said:

    Leon said:

    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens

    It was always viable. The rock solid case on the Chinese authorities lying through their arse about the original breakout in Wuhan in particular its timelines, the nature of the disease and the casualty rate leaves open the possibility that they were covering up a serious mess of some sort. Its not a big leap.



    My hunch right now is that the Chinese still aren't sure where it came from (and, like us, probably never will be now) but they are very very suspicious that it came from the lab - as in, at least 90% likely. Maybe 98%.

    Hence the stymying of all investigations (even those into the market were hampered) it is better for them if no one knows for sure.

    But they can't stop westerners finally realising "OK, it almost certainly came from that bloody lab"
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,216
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
    America is not menaced by a possible coup (or at least, nowhere near as much)

    Biden is absolute shite, especially on foreign policy. And Trump did some things oddly well in his madness

    But really, the Trumpite threat to democracy does outrank everything else, in seriousness
    The Retsina and the Ouzo has worn off and you are cogent again. Huzzah!
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
    America is not menaced by a possible coup (or at least, nowhere near as much)

    Biden is absolute shite, especially on foreign policy. And Trump did some things oddly well in his madness

    But really, the Trumpite threat to democracy does outrank everything else, in seriousness
    The 'threat to democracy' being that he is refusing to accept the result of 2020....? OK.

    But the the democrats consistently claimed 2016 was bent, too.

    That's not a threat to democracy, though. I suppose you could argue that both sides' push to utterly discredit the others victory only achieved one thing. Discrediting the American system itself.
    I don't think the Democrats in January 2017 attempted to storm the Capitol building and force VP Biden to declare Clinton president though....
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,216
    edited August 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
    America is not menaced by a possible coup (or at least, nowhere near as much)

    Biden is absolute shite, especially on foreign policy. And Trump did some things oddly well in his madness

    But really, the Trumpite threat to democracy does outrank everything else, in seriousness
    The 'threat to democracy' being that he is refusing to accept the result of 2020....? OK.

    But the the democrats consistently claimed 2016 was bent, too.

    That's not a threat to democracy, though. I suppose you could argue that both sides' push to utterly discredit the others victory only achieved one thing. Discrediting the American system itself.
    I can't remember the attempted coup after 2016 though. Remind me.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Leon said:

    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens

    It was always viable. The rock solid case on the Chinese authorities lying through their arse about the original breakout in Wuhan in particular its timelines, the nature of the disease and the casualty rate leaves open the possibility that they were covering up a serious mess of some sort. Its not a big leap.



    My hunch right now is that the Chinese still aren't sure where it came from (and, like us, probably never will be now) but they are very very suspicious that it came from the lab - as in, at least 90% likely. Maybe 98%.

    Hence the stymying of all investigations (even those into the market were hampered) it is better for them if no one knows for sure.

    But they can't stop westerners finally realising "OK, it almost certainly came from that bloody lab"
    You have to remember as well, nobody in China will risk speaking truth to power even if they do know. See the outbreak, the original whistleblower got punished and we know from leaked documents as it was reported up the chain, at every level, the first instinct was to try and bury the severity of it for as long as possible, because of fear the party would blame and pubish them.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Surely, if you want to kill a rabbit, you make sure the kids are away for the day, have a stiff whisky, go into the garden, grab the rabbit firmly by the back legs, hold it upside down - and hit it on the head very hard with a hammer. Not for the squeamish, but instantaneous and humane. Cost: one large scotch

    Taking it to a vet to be put down is surely more prolonged, terrifying and traumatic for everyone, including the rabbit. Cost: £300

    What am I missing?

    Does require that one
    (a) is not squeamish (edit: as indicated already)
    (b) is not already bitterly upset (might be your pet not the kids')
    (c) has a yard or garden to do the job that is not overlooked by others who might ring up the police who charge you with criminal cruelty
    (d) has somewhere to put the resulting corpse, that is not overlooked etc

    Country dwellers have it easier.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    TOPPING said:

    I'd forgotten @Dura's well argued and salient piece. He is right, of course.

    The immovable object however, objects in fact, are British politicians and British General Staff Officers.

    Neither of these two sets of people are prepared to accept the perception of a diminished global role for the UK.

    Which is silly. The UK presently constitutes approximately 0.9% of the world's population. Quite why we should feel any expectation to have the capacity for some kind of full spectrum military dominance Christ alone knows: not even the Americans can manage that.

    We'd be far better off as a very capable middle power than a pretend great power that's unwilling and unable to live up to the hype.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    You staunch defence of Biden is so out-of-character for a normally sane-to-the-point-of-slightly-boring persona such as yourself, I detect a hint of Trump Derangement Syndrome

    It's great that Biden beat Trump. It's great that Trump is no longer president, That doesn't mean Biden is "great". Indeed Biden can be bloody awful (and he is) and still be an improvement on Trump
    And things are better than the Trump days, how? What measure are you using to clinch that point?
    America is not menaced by a possible coup (or at least, nowhere near as much)

    Biden is absolute shite, especially on foreign policy. And Trump did some things oddly well in his madness

    But really, the Trumpite threat to democracy does outrank everything else, in seriousness
    The Retsina and the Ouzo has worn off and you are cogent again. Huzzah!
    What? I haven't budged from this position. I am deeply skeptical about Biden, and I am sickened by his mishandling of Aghanistan (indeed I think he should resign) but even now Biden is not the threat to democracy that Trump was - and maybe still is
  • Options

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    No there is the leak from the G7 in June where he assured the other nations....

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability
    Obviously they're not going to be providing personnel to protect the British Embassy in the event that *the entire Afghan army collapsed, the president buggered of to Tajikistan with a plane full of money and the Taliban took control of the entire country*. The British can't have taken them to mean that, they don't have cornflakes for brains.
    I am surprised that you attempt to excuse Biden, when he betrayed undertakings he gave to the G7 and Nato in June in a meeting the record of which has been released, and he directly reneged on his undertaking thereby dramatically changing the outcome

    Biden is responsible for this mess
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,282

    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Leon said:

    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens

    It was always viable. The rock solid case on the Chinese authorities lying through their arse about the original breakout in Wuhan in particular its timelines, the nature of the disease and the casualty rate leaves open the possibility that they were covering up a serious mess of some sort. Its not a big leap.



    My hunch right now is that the Chinese still aren't sure where it came from (and, like us, probably never will be now) but they are very very suspicious that it came from the lab - as in, at least 90% likely. Maybe 98%.

    Hence the stymying of all investigations (even those into the market were hampered) it is better for them if no one knows for sure.

    But they can't stop westerners finally realising "OK, it almost certainly came from that bloody lab"
    You have to remember as well, nobody in China will risk speaking truth to power even if they do know. See the outbreak, the original whistleblower got punished and we know from leaked documents as it was reported up the chain, at every level, the first instinct was to try and bury the severity of it for as long as possible, because of fear the party would blame and pubish them.
    Of course

    The saddening thing is the cowardly silencing of WESTERN scientists and politicians and the complicity of our supposedly brilliant science journals, esp the Lancet. They were part of this Chinese conspiracy. Shameful
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Leon said:

    I still can't get over this insane idea, apparently being bruited by Channel 4 tonight, that the novel bat coronavirus now ravaging the world, which emerged in Wuhan China, apparently came from the only lab in the world researching novel bat coronaviruses, which is in Wuhan China.

    WHAT KIND OF MADNESS IS THIS?

    Everyone knows it came from a golden panda which had gay cosplay sex with a spiny anteater living in a bat foster family who then gave the virus to a dwarf coalminer, who was caught in an eerie whirlwind and transported 1000 km from Yunnan to Wuhan wet market where he coughed on some hens

    It was always viable. The rock solid case on the Chinese authorities lying through their arse about the original breakout in Wuhan in particular its timelines, the nature of the disease and the casualty rate leaves open the possibility that they were covering up a serious mess of some sort. Its not a big leap.



    My hunch right now is that the Chinese still aren't sure where it came from (and, like us, probably never will be now) but they are very very suspicious that it came from the lab - as in, at least 90% likely. Maybe 98%.

    Hence the stymying of all investigations (even those into the market were hampered) it is better for them if no one knows for sure.

    But they can't stop westerners finally realising "OK, it almost certainly came from that bloody lab"
    Did you see the recently posted paper (preprint) which did a genetic and distributional analysis which pointed to the markets? AIUI the genetics of emergence in two wet markets, with two strains very closely related (couiple of RNA base changes, I think) suggested a source such as a consignment of beasties in a lorry, ergo cross-infection [edit], some of which went to one market and some to the other.

    [Was on PB: but possibly when you were offline the other day.]
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    MattW said:

    Marina Hyde writing another slightly different version of her weekly column :smile:

    It worked for BoZo...
    You must have missed this last night and the real story of betrayal of the western allies

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1428805059870068740?s=19
    Trump was America First, Biden appears to be Only America.

    The lack of even name checking the likes of UK and France last night was telling....Biden saying only America can airlift people out of Afghanistan. I am sure all the special forces from UK, France, etc on the ground in Afghanistan really appreciate this take.
    For all the demerits of Joe Biden - and I am seeing some - I would counsel most strongly against even the slightest temptation to doubt that every single aspect of American governance one could care to mention would not be significantly worse if Donald Trump were still directing things from his romper pen.
    As i stated last night, everybody dealing with Team Trump knew they were totally unreliable and unpredictable....whatever he saw on Fox News that morning could easily result in a massive lurch to a different position and whoever you were dealing with could be fired tomorrow because they told Trump something he didn't like. The thing is the international community knew this and handled everything with buyer beware.

    Biden was supposed to be the return of the professionals and even if Uncle Joe was sleepy and well past his best, the government would be stuffed full of reasonably compotent appointees who you could plan to come to agreements which wouldn't be vaporware. This Afghanistan business looks like it isn't the case and caught out not just the Brits but other international partners.
    What seems to have caught everyone off-guard, particularly the former Afghan government, is that Biden did what he said he was going to do. They all seem to have expected that he'd do the same as Obama and Trump and get briefed on all the different kinds of chaos that could happen during the withdrawal, think about how they were going to look on telly, and kick the can down the road to the next unlucky president.
    No there is the leak from the G7 in June where he assured the other nations....

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-20/biden-assured-allies-in-june-u-s-would-ensure-kabul-s-stability
    Obviously they're not going to be providing personnel to protect the British Embassy in the event that *the entire Afghan army collapsed, the president buggered of to Tajikistan with a plane full of money and the Taliban took control of the entire country*. The British can't have taken them to mean that, they don't have cornflakes for brains.
    I am surprised that you attempt to excuse Biden, when he betrayed undertakings he gave to the G7 and Nato in June in a meeting the record of which has been released, and he directly reneged on his undertaking thereby dramatically changing the outcome

    Biden is responsible for this mess
    What specifically are you saying he promised to do?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Leon said:

    Surely, if you want to kill a rabbit, you make sure the kids are away for the day, have a stiff whisky, go into the garden, grab the rabbit firmly by the back legs, hold it upside down - and hit it on the head very hard with a hammer. Not for the squeamish, but instantaneous and humane. Cost: one large scotch

    Taking it to a vet to be put down is surely more prolonged, terrifying and traumatic for everyone, including the rabbit. Cost: £300

    What am I missing?

    Nah, put it out on the A406.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Roger said:

    IanB2 said:

    Britain’s MPs this week uttered one long howl of anguish over Afghanistan. Their immediate targets were Joe Biden and Boris Johnson, politicians who just happened to be on the watch when Kabul’s pack of cards collapsed. But their real concern was that a collective 20-year experiment in “exporting western values” to Afghanistan had fallen into chaos. MPs wanted someone other than themselves to blame. A politician is never so angry as when proved wrong.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/20/west-nation-building-fantasy-afghanistan-boris-johnson



    An interesting article but the idea that a country gets what it deserves and it isn't for other countries to intervene has it's limitations. The world is a little too interconnected for that and anyway why shouldn't those that have the means help the oppressed whichever country they live in.

    Jenkins has been arguing the same for years. He was against sanctions against South Africa and Rhodesia. He would now be against any action-not only military-if the Taliban resumed the rape of 11 year old girls.
    Doubtless they never stopped.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,148

    On New Zealand and Australia, I'm not sure we're in a position to be quite so critical. According to Worldometers:

    New Zealand: 26 deaths, 5 per million population.
    Australia: 975 deaths, 38 per million population.
    UK: 131,487 deaths, 1,925 per million population.

    Looks to me like their strategy has worked somewhat better than ours (and most others) thus far. Yes, their figures are likely to get (much) worse, but I doubt that they'll get anywhere near our death rate (per million). By playing for time they should be able to benefit more from vaccines and treatment.

    That depends on how fast their vaccine rollout goes.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    isam said:

    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    The argument goes

    "Only (real amount/10) are going to come here, what's the problem?"

    then, a few years later

    "The economy couldn't survive without (real amount)"

    So the people in charge, and their supporters, never have to admit they got it wrong
    ...oh, right, and the staff shortages in large areas are examples of our economy surving very well?

    An economy grows and thrives by workers within the economy. If we don't have the workers we will not grow fast enough to pay our furlong debts.
    And the answers are capital investment, worker training and higher pay.

    Which leads to increased productivity and a growing economy.

    Yet some people prefer the twin exploitations of lower pay and higher house prices.
    It doesn't matter what the pay rate is, whilst we have a large part of our younger workforce doing worthless degrees at University, we aren't going to fill the gaps in hospitality or even seasonal work in the lush fruits farms etc. As an older guy myself, I am fed up of receiving rejections from various industries due to my age, so we can't fill the gaps either.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    isam said:

    maaarsh said:

    Obviously banging on about Brexit is bad because it is.. But can someone sympathetic with his EU membership views explain why and how Al Campbell thinks it should be in the title of this piece?

    "Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-58149364

    "Another story that should have the B-word in the headline yet it doesn’t even appear in the very long story. What is it about the Beeb and the phobia of using the word BREXIT? —- Abuse leaves hospitality staff at 'breaking point'"
    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1429022544460398595

    Could it be because the staffing shortages have been made a damn site worse by all the european workers having to go home?
    So many have gone home that out of the 30 thousand Romanians we were going to get, 920 thousand applied to remain.
    The argument goes

    "Only (real amount/10) are going to come here, what's the problem?"

    then, a few years later

    "The economy couldn't survive without (real amount)"

    So the people in charge, and their supporters, never have to admit they got it wrong
    ...oh, right, and the staff shortages in large areas are examples of our economy surving very well?

    An economy grows and thrives by workers within the economy. If we don't have the workers we will not grow fast enough to pay our furlong debts.
    And the answers are capital investment, worker training and higher pay.

    Which leads to increased productivity and a growing economy.

    Yet some people prefer the twin exploitations of lower pay and higher house prices.
    It doesn't matter what the pay rate is, whilst we have a large part of our younger workforce doing worthless degrees at University, we aren't going to fill the gaps in hospitality or even seasonal work in the lush fruits farms etc. As an older guy myself, I am fed up of receiving rejections from various industries due to my age, so we can't fill the gaps either.
    If 1961 is your birth year, could you do please refer to yourself as a middle-aged guy? I have a valid reason for this request

    Thanks
  • Options
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Afghanistan: Who is in charge in Kabul?

    Anyone willing to venture an answer?

    How many Taliban are actually in Kabul ?
    Low to mid thousands reportedly but its what Taliban. Haqqani is running security but the Taliban leadership, many of whom whos origins are concentrated in certain provinces, are sending their own guys in to Kabul, an indication of the complexity of the relationships between various factions.
    So in a city of millions there's 5k Taliban ?
This discussion has been closed.