YouGov finds little support for re-entering the Afghan war – politicalbetting.com
YouGov finds little support for re-entering the Afghan war – politicalbetting.com
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"Lily Cole: Model apologises for posing in a burka on Instagram"
"Model, actress and activist Lily Cole has apologised for posting a picture of herself in a burka as a way to "embrace diversity" and promote her new book.
"Critics said posing in the garment, worn by some Muslim women, did not help diversity and was ill-advised given the current unrest in Afghanistan.
"Cole said she understood why the image upset people and wanted to "sincerely apologise for any offence caused"."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-582453040 -
Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.3
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Stage 4: Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.7
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Come on, try to stay on topic for a bit. We don't need another Brexit-dominated thread.kle4 said:Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.
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However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20
64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=200 -
looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
The gender differences are interesting:
Answer - Male - Female
Should - 21 - 19
Shouldn't - 54 - 41
Don't know - 25 - 40
As ever, women are much more likely to say don't know, but there are still a higher percentage of men than women saying should go back in.0 -
8% more Tory voters than Labour voters opposed the withdrawal, though yes LD voters both opposed the withdrawal the most and most want to re enter the war.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
74% of Tory voters however think the withdrawal increases the threat of terrorism in the UK0 -
It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.3
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How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.3 -
Of course they are for now, only once all western troops and officials are long gone from Afghanistan will the real test of whether they can be trusted or not be seenSandpit said:How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.1 -
The final exit was indeed rushed and bungled in order to just get out and make good on a pledge to a public tired of the issue.Endillion said:
Come on, try to stay on topic for a bit. We don't need another Brexit-dominated thread.kle4 said:Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.
But anyway you beat me to it.0 -
Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?1
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I think that was implicit in what he said. I don't think anyone is fooled by a savvy media operation, but it will very much help the West, even as it has been humiliated, if the Taliban play the game until attention moves on.HYUFD said:
Of course they are for now, only once all western troops and officials are long gone from Afghanistan will the real test of whether they can be trusted or not be seenSandpit said:How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.0 -
"whether they can be trusted"? !!! WTF?HYUFD said:
Of course they are for now, only once all western troops and officials are long gone from Afghanistan will the real test of whether they can be trusted or not be seenSandpit said:How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.0 -
I really do not understand why you repeat this post, but this time miss out the bit you included last timeHYUFD said:However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20
64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20
'However, by 47% to 20% voters do not want to re- enter the war now to restore the deposed government'
Which is the salient point and the topic of this thread
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Yes, and not surprisingly a much higher percentage of the DKs are women. Men, of course, know everything.Theuniondivvie said:Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?
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Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.Theuniondivvie said:Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?
For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...
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John Sopel (US correspondent) on the six o'clock news. I reckon that's the first time I've seen him on the BBC since January.0
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I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
He was on Newsnight last night.tlg86 said:John Sopel (US correspondent) on the six o'clock news. I reckon that's the first time I've seen him on the BBC since January.
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Arlene and the DUP despairingly running after BJ's big Brexit bird as it's about to take off..kinabalu said:
The final exit was indeed rushed and bungled in order to just get out and make good on a pledge to a public tired of the issue.Endillion said:
Come on, try to stay on topic for a bit. We don't need another Brexit-dominated thread.kle4 said:Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.
But anyway you beat me to it.
'But you OWE US!'1 -
squareroot2 said:
It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.
Afghanistan or Brexit?
Beaten to it.0 -
For now, the fact the same poll also shows most voters opposed the withdrawal in the first place and most expect it to lead to a return of terrorism is also equally significant. I have no control over which one OGH happened to highlight in the thread.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really do not understand why you repeat this post, but this time miss out the bit you included last timeHYUFD said:However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20
64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20
'However, by 47% to 20% voters do not want to re- enter the war now to restore the deposed government'
Which is the salient point and the topic of this thread
Certainly if terrorists return to Afghanistan and use it as a base to attack us those numbers about not intervening again would change pretty quickly0 -
Are you real saying the lib dems want to re-enter the war in AfghanistanHYUFD said:
8% more Tory voters than Labour voters opposed the withdrawal, though yes LD voters both opposed the withdrawal the most and most want to re enter the war.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
74% of Tory voters however think the withdrawal increases the threat of terrorism in the UK
I expect there will be a strong rebuttal coming your way0 -
I see you bleating about it.JosiasJessop said:
Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.Theuniondivvie said:Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?
For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...
Me, not so much.0 -
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.1 -
Very consistent view across the party/Brexit divides too.0
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Credit to you, you clearly delude yourself that you keep your Anglophobia in the closet, but the doors can't hold it in that well.Theuniondivvie said:
I see you bleating about it.JosiasJessop said:
Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.Theuniondivvie said:Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?
For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...
Me, not so much.2 -
Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.0
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We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
That would certainly be a statement, but there are some fairly terrifying bombs that make that infringement of nuclear non-proliferation unnecessaryDavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
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That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
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You have control over deleting parts of your post when repeating them to try to mislead into your viewHYUFD said:
For now, the fact the same poll also shows most voters opposed the withdrawal in the first place and most expect it to lead to a return of terrorism is also equally significant. I have no control over which one OGH happened to highlight in the thread.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really do not understand why you repeat this post, but this time miss out the bit you included last timeHYUFD said:However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.
48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20
64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20
'However, by 47% to 20% voters do not want to re- enter the war now to restore the deposed government'
Which is the salient point and the topic of this thread
Certainly if terrorists return to Afghanistan and use it as a base to attack us those numbers about not intervening again would change pretty quickly
The bit you deleted was the salient bit
And you have since declared the lib dems want to re-enter into war in Afghanistan
You really are someone who considers yourself infallible in your views0 -
I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.1 -
How about the National Skills Academy for Rail? A training camp(us) for trains?Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
https://www.nsar.co.uk/1 -
Sgt. Sunil: Alright, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we're gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?Nigel_Foremain said:
I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?
PB Tories: Lean and mean!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? @HYUFD! @Leon! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!
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We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justifiedNigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Now everyone's an XYZ expert for 15 minutes.
Elliot Williams
@elliotcwilliams
17h
The sudden emergence of Deep Down Everyone Truly Is An Expert About Afghanistan Twitter is really making me miss the golden days of Armchair Epidemiologist Twitter
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Boy Scouts definitely. England football team, depends on how many hours they spend practicing penalties.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
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These are the real heroes for me.Theuniondivvie said:Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?
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It does not matter how brilliant our intelligence services are, if Al Qaeda and other jihadi militants return to Afghanistan and reestablish training camps etc eventually some of them will get through and launch another major terrorist atrocity on a big UK or other western cityBig_G_NorthWales said:
We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justifiedNigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
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And your answer is an indefinite occupation of AfghanistanHYUFD said:
It does not matter how brilliant our intelligence services are, if Al Qaeda and other jihadi militants return to Afghanistan eventually some of them will get through and launch another major terrorist atrocity on a big UK or other western cityBig_G_NorthWales said:
We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justifiedNigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Indeed, they collapsed faster than the (ex-)Afghan government!TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
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As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.1 -
I would want to make a statement. And having a bit of Afghanistan that glowed in the dark would make that.Nigel_Foremain said:
That would certainly be a statement, but there are some fairly terrifying bombs that make that infringement of nuclear non-proliferation unnecessaryDavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
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OK!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sgt. Sunil: Alright, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we're gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?Nigel_Foremain said:
I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?
PB Tories: Lean and mean!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? @HYUFD! @Leon! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!0 -
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?2 -
They train???TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
Then why do they bat like muppets?2 -
You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.1 -
Waehae, even more predictable than your endless scampering after my posts!Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Yes I was 2nd in with this and you were a poor 4th. Didn't even podium.Northern_Al said:squareroot2 said:It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.
Afghanistan or Brexit?
Beaten to it.0 -
Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sgt. Sunil: Alright, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we're gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?Nigel_Foremain said:
I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?
PB Tories: Yeah!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?
PB Tories: Lean and mean!
Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? @HYUFD! @Leon! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!
Gunners Sergeant Sunil !
0 -
Think he has been dropped on his head enough times alreadySunil_Prasannan said:
We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Good attempt Malc, almost humorous by your standards. How is the anger management course going?malcolmg said:
You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Both!Northern_Al said:squareroot2 said:It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.
Afghanistan or Brexit?
Beaten to it.0 -
Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Still throwing darts at the massive bellend that is an accurate portrait of you.Nigel_Foremain said:
Good attempt Malc, almost humorous by your standards. How is the anger management course going?malcolmg said:
You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
PS: Must depart I have some live plants to water1 -
Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?2 -
Perhaps the Cricket training camp could be hit by tactics at least.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
1 -
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
'These dunderheids' presumably referring to the politicoes. But yes.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?0 -
You're like a fine wine.kjh said:
Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?1 -
It's not an unfair point really, but I do find it a bit silly to act like it is not perfectly ordinary for people to opine with confidence about things about which they know little. Everyone does it to a greater or lesser degree, and we can have a good laugh at particularly clueless examples, but some of the laughter seems to be at the very concept and given everyone has at one time ventured an opinion without being an expert it seems over the top.Theuniondivvie said:Now everyone's an XYZ expert for 15 minutes.
Elliot Williams
@elliotcwilliams
17h
The sudden emergence of Deep Down Everyone Truly Is An Expert About Afghanistan Twitter is really making me miss the golden days of Armchair Epidemiologist Twitter1 -
Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.HYUFD said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
2001.HYUFD said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
Cannae move for wee Pavlov's doggies..0 -
Triffids?malcolmg said:
Still throwing darts at the massive bellend that is an accurate portrait of you.Nigel_Foremain said:
Good attempt Malc, almost humorous by your standards. How is the anger management course going?malcolmg said:
You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
PS: Must depart I have some live plants to water4 -
That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!DavidL said:
They train???TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
Then why do they bat like muppets?5 -
I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
Indeed.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
On a happier note, how was the Pnyx?0 -
It was the Tory PM at the time, Winston Churchill who led opposition to the Nazis once war broke out along with the Labour leader Attlee.Carnyx said:
Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.HYUFD said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
Meanwhile some Scottish nationalists were seeking an alliance with the Nazis against Britain as late as 1943 and in Ireland De Valera signed the book of condolence for Hitler at the end of the war0 -
You'd think they had never heard of staunch Tories such as Archibald Ramsay. Even Donaldson was released after a few weeks when they realised someone had been fibbing.Theuniondivvie said:
2001.HYUFD said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
Cannae move for wee Pavlov's doggies..0 -
There will be mass executions. It’s what they do when they are not raping childrenLeon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope0 -
I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripesCarnyx said:
Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.1 -
It would be churlish not to like that wouldn't it?kinabalu said:
You're like a fine wine.kjh said:
Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?
Or do you mean I'm old and dusty?1 -
We've been through this before. Winston Churchill was PM on the outbreak of war? Revolutionary if true (no pun intended). And unlike the Tories of Scotland, they didn't find it worth arresting and jailing any nationalists.HYUFD said:
It was the Tory PM at the time, Winston Churchill who led opposition to the Nazis once war broke out along with the Labour leader Attlee.Carnyx said:
Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.HYUFD said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
Meanwhile some Scottish nationalists were seeking an alliance with the Nazis against Britain as late as 1943 and in Ireland De Valera signed the book of condolence for Hitler at the end of the war0 -
Chamberlain was PM at the time war broke out!HYUFD said:
It was the Tory PM at the time, Winston Churchill who led opposition to the Nazis once war broke out along with the Labour leader Attlee.Carnyx said:
Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.HYUFD said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanitiesTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Donaldson is dealt with elsewhere.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripesCarnyx said:
Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Well, there's only so many hours in the day and one does need variety.DavidL said:
There will be mass executions. It’s what they do when they are not raping childrenLeon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope1 -
I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.Sandpit said:
That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!DavidL said:
They train???TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
Then why do they bat like muppets?3 -
Or they could organise it in dewsbury like the last one. Or as wfh has shown us you dont even have to be in the same place.HYUFD said:
It does not matter how brilliant our intelligence services are, if Al Qaeda and other jihadi militants return to Afghanistan and reestablish training camps etc eventually some of them will get through and launch another major terrorist atrocity on a big UK or other western cityBig_G_NorthWales said:
We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justifiedNigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.0 -
Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.
0 -
Chair of Defence Select Committee says that this not over by a long way: civil war will develop.another_richard said:Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.0 -
The Taliban need money, and the drug trade isn't paying what it used to (thanks to competition from China).Sandpit said:How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.
Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.
It is therefore entirely possible that - while life will be pretty miserable for many ordinary Afghanis - this has limited impact beyond the initial news cycle.0 -
He was better than pretty much anyone in the English batting line up except Root.kle4 said:
I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.Sandpit said:
That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!DavidL said:
They train???TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
Then why do they bat like muppets?2 -
Re covid cases.
I get the impression that the areas having increases are those which might have had fewer previous cases - Scotland, N Ireland, rural areas - or perhaps those with much lower levels of vaccination eg parts of London.
If so would this be a 'gap filling' situation.0 -
China urges the U.S. to stop official contacts, arms sales to, and military ties with Taiwan - Chinese MFA
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231712.shtml0 -
🙂 as ifkjh said:
It would be churlish not to like that wouldn't it?kinabalu said:
You're like a fine wine.kjh said:
Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.StuartDickson said:
+1kjh said:Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.
Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.
The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.
Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.
Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?
Or do you mean I'm old and dusty?0 -
When I left to make the dinner a while ago the discussion was actually on topic. How on Earth did it get back to the zillionth stupid mudslinging fest over another place?
Oh well, never mind. Just about the only good news about the Afghan debacle is it looks as if I may have been right when I said the Taliban had concluded it was in their interest to let the foreigners go in peace. The bad news is that I seem to recall seeing on the news earlier today that the RAF had so far managed to get 300 people out through the airport. Apparently there are 6,000 UK citizens and eligible Afghans awaiting rescue. This is far from ideal...0 -
Might be worth reading into this a little more. MI5 perhaps had good reasons for recommending his release.Carnyx said:
Donaldson is dealt with elsewhere.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripesCarnyx said:
Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.Nigel_Foremain said:
As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion itemsTheuniondivvie said:
Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.paulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
I think it might be a little more plausible if nationalists accepted they have an inglorious past in relationship to fascism, just as some Tories did and even the royal family. To try and claim that it did not exist is just denial and an attempt to rewrite history.0 -
Well, we could drone strike the hydroelectric dams that provide pretty much all of Afghanistan's electricity.Nigel_Foremain said:
If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistanpaulyork64 said:looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.
and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.
Since 2000, the West's ability to reach out and bomb people in places in the middle of nowhere has increased dramatically.0 -
I’m going tomorrow! I was kind of exhausted after the historical epiphanies of yesterday. Properly drained, emotionally. And it wasn’t just the ouzoCarnyx said:
Indeed.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
On a happier note, how was the Pnyx?1 -
Very likely, its what happens in Afghanistan.rottenborough said:
Chair of Defence Select Committee says that this not over by a long way: civil war will develop.another_richard said:Re-enter what war ?
The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.
Regrettable but the reality.
Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.
But that's a different issue.
The Taliban will likely prove incompetent and corrupt in government.
There will be various political, regional and ethnic factions in disputes.
Foreign governments will meddle and bribe.
And fighting starts somewhere.
Pretty certain I'd say but all in the future.0 -
He’d still have scored more runs yesterday than Burns and Sibley!kle4 said:
I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.Sandpit said:
That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!DavidL said:
They train???TimT said:
No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.Northern_Al said:
That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?DavidL said:Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.
Then why do they bat like muppets?0 -
Very ancient Greek aristocracy of you.Leon said:
I’m going tomorrow! I was kind of exhausted after the historical epiphanies of yesterday. Properly drained, emotionally. And it wasn’t just the ouzoCarnyx said:
Indeed.Leon said:I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each
The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now
Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope
On a happier note, how was the Pnyx?0
