YouGov finds little support for re-entering the Afghan war – politicalbetting.com

System

YouGov finds little support for re-entering the Afghan war – politicalbetting.com

Read the full story here

MikeSmithson

Test

paulyork64

second test

Sunil_Prasannan

"Lily Cole: Model apologises for posing in a burka on Instagram"

"Model, actress and activist Lily Cole has apologised for posting a picture of herself in a burka as a way to "embrace diversity" and promote her new book.

"Critics said posing in the garment, worn by some Muslim women, did not help diversity and was ill-advised given the current unrest in Afghanistan.

"Cole said she understood why the image upset people and wanted to "sincerely apologise for any offence caused"."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-58245304

kle4

Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.

tlg86

Stage 4: Maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.

Endillion

kle4 said:

Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.

Come on, try to stay on topic for a bit. We don't need another Brexit-dominated thread.

HYUFD

However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20


64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20

paulyork64

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

tlg86

The gender differences are interesting:

Answer - Male - Female
Should - 21 - 19
Shouldn't - 54 - 41
Don't know - 25 - 40

As ever, women are much more likely to say don't know, but there are still a higher percentage of men than women saying should go back in.

HYUFD

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

8% more Tory voters than Labour voters opposed the withdrawal, though yes LD voters both opposed the withdrawal the most and most want to re enter the war.

74% of Tory voters however think the withdrawal increases the threat of terrorism in the UK

squareroot2

It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.

Sandpit

How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.

Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.

HYUFD

Sandpit said:

How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.

Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.

Of course they are for now, only once all western troops and officials are long gone from Afghanistan will the real test of whether they can be trusted or not be seen

kinabalu

Endillion said:

kle4 said:

Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.

Come on, try to stay on topic for a bit. We don't need another Brexit-dominated thread.

The final exit was indeed rushed and bungled in order to just get out and make good on a pledge to a public tired of the issue.

But anyway you beat me to it.

Theuniondivvie

Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?

kle4

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.

Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.

Of course they are for now, only once all western troops and officials are long gone from Afghanistan will the real test of whether they can be trusted or not be seen

I think that was implicit in what he said. I don't think anyone is fooled by a savvy media operation, but it will very much help the West, even as it has been humiliated, if the Taliban play the game until attention moves on.

Nigel_Foremain

HYUFD said:

Sandpit said:

How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.

Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.

Of course they are for now, only once all western troops and officials are long gone from Afghanistan will the real test of whether they can be trusted or not be seen

"whether they can be trusted"? !!! WTF?

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20


64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20

I really do not understand why you repeat this post, but this time miss out the bit you included last time

'However, by 47% to 20% voters do not want to re- enter the war now to restore the deposed government'

Which is the salient point and the topic of this thread

Northern_Al

Theuniondivvie said:

Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?

Yes, and not surprisingly a much higher percentage of the DKs are women. Men, of course, know everything.

JosiasJessop

Theuniondivvie said:

Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?

Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.

For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...

tlg86

John Sopel (US correspondent) on the six o'clock news. I reckon that's the first time I've seen him on the BBC since January.

Big_G_NorthWales

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

TimT

kle4 said:

Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.

Afghanistan or Brexit?

Northern_Al

tlg86 said:

John Sopel (US correspondent) on the six o'clock news. I reckon that's the first time I've seen him on the BBC since January.

He was on Newsnight last night.

Theuniondivvie

kinabalu said:

Endillion said:

kle4 said:

Not much of a surprise of course. Right or wrong decision to withdraw, and shambolic though it has been, pretty much everyone seems to see this as a new era. Re-entering was never going to be on the agenda.

Come on, try to stay on topic for a bit. We don't need another Brexit-dominated thread.

The final exit was indeed rushed and bungled in order to just get out and make good on a pledge to a public tired of the issue.

But anyway you beat me to it.

Arlene and the DUP despairingly running after BJ's big Brexit bird as it's about to take off..

'But you OWE US!'

Northern_Al

squareroot2 said:

It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.

Afghanistan or Brexit?
Beaten to it.

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20


64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20

I really do not understand why you repeat this post, but this time miss out the bit you included last time

'However, by 47% to 20% voters do not want to re- enter the war now to restore the deposed government'

Which is the salient point and the topic of this thread

For now, the fact the same poll also shows most voters opposed the withdrawal in the first place and most expect it to lead to a return of terrorism is also equally significant. I have no control over which one OGH happened to highlight in the thread.

Certainly if terrorists return to Afghanistan and use it as a base to attack us those numbers about not intervening again would change pretty quickly

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

8% more Tory voters than Labour voters opposed the withdrawal, though yes LD voters both opposed the withdrawal the most and most want to re enter the war.

74% of Tory voters however think the withdrawal increases the threat of terrorism in the UK

Are you real saying the lib dems want to re-enter the war in Afghanistan

I expect there will be a strong rebuttal coming your way

Theuniondivvie

JosiasJessop said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?

Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.

For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...

I see you bleating about it.
Me, not so much.

Nigel_Foremain

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

Quincel

Very consistent view across the party/Brexit divides too.

Nigel_Foremain

Theuniondivvie said:

JosiasJessop said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?

Oh, come on. If PB is a guide, then not having a clue about a topic is no reason to feel a dick about expressing strong opinions on the topic.

For instance, the way some Scottish Nationalists opine on the unique evils of England and the English ...

I see you bleating about it.
Me, not so much.

Credit to you, you clearly delude yourself that you keep your Anglophobia in the closet, but the doors can't hold it in that well.

DavidL

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

Sunil_Prasannan

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...

Theuniondivvie

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

Nigel_Foremain

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That would certainly be a statement, but there are some fairly terrifying bombs that make that infringement of nuclear non-proliferation unnecessary

Northern_Al

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

However Yougov also finds by 42% to 28% that most British voters think it was wrong to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

48% of Tory voters and 40% of Labour voters and 54% of LD voters think the decision to withdraw was wrong.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427300773331968003?s=20


64% expect the threat of terrorism within western countries to increase now the Taliban have taken control of Afghanistan again
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1427653152225042433?s=20

I really do not understand why you repeat this post, but this time miss out the bit you included last time

'However, by 47% to 20% voters do not want to re- enter the war now to restore the deposed government'

Which is the salient point and the topic of this thread

For now, the fact the same poll also shows most voters opposed the withdrawal in the first place and most expect it to lead to a return of terrorism is also equally significant. I have no control over which one OGH happened to highlight in the thread.

Certainly if terrorists return to Afghanistan and use it as a base to attack us those numbers about not intervening again would change pretty quickly

You have control over deleting parts of your post when repeating them to try to mislead into your view

The bit you deleted was the salient bit

And you have since declared the lib dems want to re-enter into war in Afghanistan

You really are someone who considers yourself infallible in your views

Nigel_Foremain

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...

I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.

JosiasJessop

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

How about the National Skills Academy for Rail? A training camp(us) for trains?

https://www.nsar.co.uk/

Sunil_Prasannan

Nigel_Foremain said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...

I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.

Sgt. Sunil: Alright, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we're gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?

PB Tories: Yeah!

Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?

PB Tories: Yeah!

Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?

PB Tories: Lean and mean!

Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? @HYUFD! @Leon! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!

Big_G_NorthWales

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justified

Theuniondivvie

Now everyone's an XYZ expert for 15 minutes.

Elliot Williams
@elliotcwilliams
17h
The sudden emergence of Deep Down Everyone Truly Is An Expert About Afghanistan Twitter is really making me miss the golden days of Armchair Epidemiologist Twitter

DavidL

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

Boy Scouts definitely. England football team, depends on how many hours they spend practicing penalties.

kinabalu

Theuniondivvie said:

Can we put a good chunk of the dks down as 'I don't really have a clue about Afghanistan and not having expressed a view on the place for X years would feel like a right dick expressing strong opinions on the subject now'?

These are the real heroes for me.

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justified

It does not matter how brilliant our intelligence services are, if Al Qaeda and other jihadi militants return to Afghanistan and reestablish training camps etc eventually some of them will get through and launch another major terrorist atrocity on a big UK or other western city

TimT

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justified

It does not matter how brilliant our intelligence services are, if Al Qaeda and other jihadi militants return to Afghanistan eventually some of them will get through and launch another major terrorist atrocity on a big UK or other western city

And your answer is an indefinite occupation of Afghanistan

Sunil_Prasannan

TimT said:

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

Indeed, they collapsed faster than the (ex-)Afghan government!

Nigel_Foremain

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

DavidL

Nigel_Foremain said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That would certainly be a statement, but there are some fairly terrifying bombs that make that infringement of nuclear non-proliferation unnecessary

I would want to make a statement. And having a bit of Afghanistan that glowed in the dark would make that.

Nigel_Foremain

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...

I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.

Sgt. Sunil: Alright, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we're gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?

PB Tories: Yeah!

Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?

PB Tories: Yeah!

Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?

PB Tories: Lean and mean!

Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? @HYUFD! @Leon! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!

OK!

StuartDickson

kjh said:

Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.

+1

Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.

Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?

DavidL

TimT said:

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

They train???
Then why do they bat like muppets?

malcolmg

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.

Theuniondivvie

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

Waehae, even more predictable than your endless scampering after my posts!

kinabalu

Northern_Al said:

squareroot2 said:

It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.

Afghanistan or Brexit?
Beaten to it.

Yes I was 2nd in with this and you were a poor 4th. Didn't even podium.

Taz

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...

I am a bit old for that sort of thing. A GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast might be more effective.

Sgt. Sunil: Alright, sweethearts, you're a team and there's nothin' to worry about. We come here, and we're gonna conquer, and we're gonna kick some, is that understood? That's what we're gonna do, sweethearts, we are going to go and get some. All right, people, on the ready line! Are ya lean?

PB Tories: Yeah!

Sgt. Sunil: Are ya mean?

PB Tories: Yeah!

Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU?

PB Tories: Lean and mean!

Sgt. Sunil: WHAT ARE YOU? @HYUFD! @Leon! Get on the ready line, PB Tories, get some today! Get on the ready line! Move it out! Move it out, goddammit! Get hot! One, two, three, four! Get out, get out, get out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! Move it out, move it out, move it out! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven! Aaarrrrr, absolutely badasses! Let's pack 'em in! Get in there!

Gunners Sergeant Sunil !

malcolmg

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We can always drop you behind enemy lines. If you really want it...

Think he has been dropped on his head enough times already

Nigel_Foremain

malcolmg said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.

Good attempt Malc, almost humorous by your standards. How is the anger management course going?

squareroot2

Northern_Al said:

squareroot2 said:

It would be madness to go back in. Leave well alone. Just stop them doing things from the outside.

Afghanistan or Brexit?
Beaten to it.

Both!

Carnyx

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.

malcolmg

Nigel_Foremain said:

malcolmg said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.

Good attempt Malc, almost humorous by your standards. How is the anger management course going?

Still throwing darts at the massive bellend that is an accurate portrait of you.
PS: Must depart I have some live plants to water

kjh

StuartDickson said:

kjh said:

Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.

+1

Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.

Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?

Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.

kle4

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

Perhaps the Cricket training camp could be hit by tactics at least.

HYUFD

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

Carnyx

StuartDickson said:

kjh said:

Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.

+1

Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.

Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?

'These dunderheids' presumably referring to the politicoes. But yes.

kinabalu

kjh said:

StuartDickson said:

kjh said:

Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.

+1

Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.

Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?

Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.

You're like a fine wine.

kle4

Theuniondivvie said:

Now everyone's an XYZ expert for 15 minutes.

Elliot Williams
@elliotcwilliams
17h
The sudden emergence of Deep Down Everyone Truly Is An Expert About Afghanistan Twitter is really making me miss the golden days of Armchair Epidemiologist Twitter

It's not an unfair point really, but I do find it a bit silly to act like it is not perfectly ordinary for people to opine with confidence about things about which they know little. Everyone does it to a greater or lesser degree, and we can have a good laugh at particularly clueless examples, but some of the laughter seems to be at the very concept and given everyone has at one time ventured an opinion without being an expert it seems over the top.

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.

Theuniondivvie

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

2001.

Cannae move for wee Pavlov's doggies..

DavidL

malcolmg said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

malcolmg said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

You been let out again , treatment obviously did not work.

Good attempt Malc, almost humorous by your standards. How is the anger management course going?

Still throwing darts at the massive bellend that is an accurate portrait of you.
PS: Must depart I have some live plants to water

Triffids?

Sandpit

DavidL said:

TimT said:

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

They train???
Then why do they bat like muppets?

That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!

Leon

I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each

The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now

Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope

Carnyx

Leon said:

I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each

The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now

Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope

Indeed.

On a happier note, how was the Pnyx?

HYUFD

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.

It was the Tory PM at the time, Winston Churchill who led opposition to the Nazis once war broke out along with the Labour leader Attlee.

Meanwhile some Scottish nationalists were seeking an alliance with the Nazis against Britain as late as 1943 and in Ireland De Valera signed the book of condolence for Hitler at the end of the war

Carnyx

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

2001.

Cannae move for wee Pavlov's doggies..

You'd think they had never heard of staunch Tories such as Archibald Ramsay. Even Donaldson was released after a few weeks when they realised someone had been fibbing.

DavidL

Leon said:

I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each

The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now

Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope

There will be mass executions. It’s what they do when they are not raping children

Nigel_Foremain

Carnyx said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.

I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripes

kjh

kinabalu said:

kjh said:

StuartDickson said:

kjh said:

Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.

+1

Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.

Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?

Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.

You're like a fine wine.

It would be churlish not to like that wouldn't it?

Or do you mean I'm old and dusty?

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.

It was the Tory PM at the time, Winston Churchill who led opposition to the Nazis once war broke out along with the Labour leader Attlee.

Meanwhile some Scottish nationalists were seeking an alliance with the Nazis against Britain as late as 1943 and in Ireland De Valera signed the book of condolence for Hitler at the end of the war

We've been through this before. Winston Churchill was PM on the outbreak of war? Revolutionary if true (no pun intended). And unlike the Tories of Scotland, they didn't find it worth arresting and jailing any nationalists.

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/09/highereducation.humanities

Dismissed as tdrivial, as your very source points out. Unlike the treason by Tories and the Establishment. Archibald Ramsay wasn't high enough so he got banged up.

It was the Tory PM at the time, Winston Churchill who led opposition to the Nazis once war broke out along with the Labour leader Attlee.

Chamberlain was PM at the time war broke out!

Carnyx

Nigel_Foremain said:

Carnyx said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.

I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripes

Donaldson is dealt with elsewhere.

kle4

DavidL said:

Leon said:

I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each

The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now

Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope

There will be mass executions. It’s what they do when they are not raping children

Well, there's only so many hours in the day and one does need variety.

kle4

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

TimT said:

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

They train???
Then why do they bat like muppets?

That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!

I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.

paulyork64

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

We have to ensure our intelligence and security agencies are alert to these threats, but no I do not see further UK military intervention as justified

It does not matter how brilliant our intelligence services are, if Al Qaeda and other jihadi militants return to Afghanistan and reestablish training camps etc eventually some of them will get through and launch another major terrorist atrocity on a big UK or other western city

Or they could organise it in dewsbury like the last one. Or as wfh has shown us you dont even have to be in the same place.

another_richard

Re-enter what war ?

The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.

Regrettable but the reality.

Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.

But that's a different issue.

rottenborough

another_richard said:

Re-enter what war ?

The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.

Regrettable but the reality.

Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.

But that's a different issue.

Chair of Defence Select Committee says that this not over by a long way: civil war will develop.

rcs1000

Sandpit said:

How this plays out in terms of Western government popularity, depends very much on what happens in the coming days and weeks.

Thankfully, from the point of view of Western governments, it appears that the Taliban are playing the PR game, and will let the Westerners all leave peacefully before they get on with doing what they do.

The Taliban need money, and the drug trade isn't paying what it used to (thanks to competition from China).

It is therefore entirely possible that - while life will be pretty miserable for many ordinary Afghanis - this has limited impact beyond the initial news cycle.

DavidL

kle4 said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

TimT said:

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

They train???
Then why do they bat like muppets?

That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!

I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.

He was better than pretty much anyone in the English batting line up except Root.

another_richard

Re covid cases.

I get the impression that the areas having increases are those which might have had fewer previous cases - Scotland, N Ireland, rural areas - or perhaps those with much lower levels of vaccination eg parts of London.

If so would this be a 'gap filling' situation.

williamglenn

China urges the U.S. to stop official contacts, arms sales to, and military ties with Taiwan - Chinese MFA

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231712.shtml

kinabalu

kjh said:

kinabalu said:

kjh said:

StuartDickson said:

kjh said:

Haven't posted anything on Afghanistan. Very depressing all around. No point in commenting on Trump, but I am very, very disappointed in Biden. I would be even more depressed if I had been, or my children had been, involved in the military, particular those wounded or killed.

Although we are impotent really I also don't think this reflects well on us. Delays in helping those who helped us which will almost certainly cause some to die because their paperwork wasn't quite right, the scholarship scandal (now reversed). And did Boris really go on holiday on Saturday? I really hope that is not an accurate report.

The response from ex-military and military personnel seems very consistent and very sad.

+1

Some of the interviews with veterans have been heartbreaking. So many years in the primes of their lives, wasted. Losing friends and seeing others maimed, and all the terrible things they have seen. All for nothing.

Who would be happy to see their children serving in the armed forces, serving under these dunderheids?

Gosh I posted that 8 hours ago. Very impressed someone reads anything I wrote that is that old.

You're like a fine wine.

It would be churlish not to like that wouldn't it?

Or do you mean I'm old and dusty?

🙂 as if

pigeon

When I left to make the dinner a while ago the discussion was actually on topic. How on Earth did it get back to the zillionth stupid mudslinging fest over another place?

Oh well, never mind. Just about the only good news about the Afghan debacle is it looks as if I may have been right when I said the Taliban had concluded it was in their interest to let the foreigners go in peace. The bad news is that I seem to recall seeing on the news earlier today that the RAF had so far managed to get 300 people out through the airport. Apparently there are 6,000 UK citizens and eligible Afghans awaiting rescue. This is far from ideal...

Nigel_Foremain

Carnyx said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Carnyx said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Theuniondivvie said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

Appeasement a fine party tradition of course.

As is SNP collusion with hostile foreign powers and thinking that jackboots and swastikas are de rigueur fashion items

Wrong party. Vide A. Ramsay and Sempill.

I think you will find Arthur Donaldson was once a leader of the SNP and was a fascist sympathiser (or at least espoused the benefits to the cause of Britain losing to the Nazis), as was Andrew Dewar Gibb QC. Divisive nationalism is only a short step from fascism. It is an inconvenient truth for nationalists of all stripes

Donaldson is dealt with elsewhere.

Might be worth reading into this a little more. MI5 perhaps had good reasons for recommending his release.

I think it might be a little more plausible if nationalists accepted they have an inglorious past in relationship to fascism, just as some Tories did and even the royal family. To try and claim that it did not exist is just denial and an attempt to rewrite history.

rcs1000

Nigel_Foremain said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

paulyork64 said:

looks like conservative voters are more anti-intervention than the rest. surprises me a little.

and leave more-so than remain. seems more logical if part of Brexit is keeping yourself to yourself.

I voted remain but a conservative who fully opposes any further intervention in Afghanistan

If they resumed training Islamist terrorists to attack the West? Should we then say "oh do carry on, we shall just sit on our hands"?

Well, we could drone strike the hydroelectric dams that provide pretty much all of Afghanistan's electricity.

Since 2000, the West's ability to reach out and bomb people in places in the middle of nowhere has increased dramatically.

Leon

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each

The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now

Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope

Indeed.

On a happier note, how was the Pnyx?

I’m going tomorrow! I was kind of exhausted after the historical epiphanies of yesterday. Properly drained, emotionally. And it wasn’t just the ouzo

another_richard

rottenborough said:

another_richard said:

Re-enter what war ?

The Afghans seem to have chosen the Taliban.

Regrettable but the reality.

Now the West could overthrow the Taliban again.

But that's a different issue.

Chair of Defence Select Committee says that this not over by a long way: civil war will develop.

Very likely, its what happens in Afghanistan.

The Taliban will likely prove incompetent and corrupt in government.

There will be various political, regional and ethnic factions in disputes.

Foreign governments will meddle and bribe.

And fighting starts somewhere.

Pretty certain I'd say but all in the future.

Sandpit

kle4 said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

TimT said:

Northern_Al said:

DavidL said:

Personally I would favour taking out any new training camps with a tactical nuke.

That seems a bit harsh. Even the England football team? Boy Scouts?

No need to take out the England cricket training camp. They take themselves out.

They train???
Then why do they bat like muppets?

That comment is offensive to the legacy of Jim Henson!

I'm not sure Kermit was reknowned for the orthodoxy of his forward defensive stroke in fairness.

He’d still have scored more runs yesterday than Burns and Sibley!

Omnium

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

I’m amazed that as many as 1 in 5 want to go back in and start the war again. How? Interesting that this cuts across the parties. 20% of each

The withdrawal was probably an error, the management of the withdrawal is a tragic catastrophe, but it is done now

Let’s hope the new Cuddly Teletubby Taliban are for real. I doubt it, but we can hope

Indeed.

On a happier note, how was the Pnyx?

I’m going tomorrow! I was kind of exhausted after the historical epiphanies of yesterday. Properly drained, emotionally. And it wasn’t just the ouzo

Very ancient Greek aristocracy of you.