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Don’t fear for Keir – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,297

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    I’d also suggest that like most people the English dislike other people’s hypocrisy. Their own their fine with.
    "Dislike theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy."

    I'm seeing Benny from Crossroads.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,483
    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    The triumph of hope over experience.

    Though the performance has shown the silliness of people assuming no way back after one bad day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,260
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Yet Blair won general elections, Loach's hero Corbyn didn't
    New Labour lost in 2010 and 2015 as for 2017 loss see Forde report for more information.

    Labour under SKS will get nowhere near the 2017 result.
    No it didn't, Blair wanted David Miliband to succeed him not Brown and in 2010 the Brownite Ed Miliband beat his Blairite brother David for the leadership and so it was the Brownites who lost in 2010 and 2015 not the Blairites.

    Starmer may not match Corbyn's voteshare in 2017 but he could get more seats if he wins over more LD tactical votes and makes some progress in Scotland
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 2,184
    malcolmg said:


    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    It seems that both Mr and Mrs Sturgeon's sister are on the charge.
    I cannot wait on the series coming out
    PS: Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town. Assume it would have been down in the rough end.
    For all the “Scotch Experts” on here, all of Kilwinning is the rough end. 😎
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,403


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Once people start angsting [Have I invented a new gerund? :0] about souls and political parties they're down there in permanent opposition land. A political Scott'nPaste raging against the machine!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Yet Blair won general elections, Loach's hero Corbyn didn't
    New Labour lost in 2010 and 2015 as for 2017 loss see Forde report for more information.

    Labour under SKS will get nowhere near the 2017 result.
    No it didn't, Blair wanted David Miliband to succeed him not Brown and in 2010 the Brownite Ed Miliband beat his Blairite brother David for the leadership and so it was the Brownites who lost in 2010 and 2015 not the Blairites.

    Starmer may not match Corbyn's voteshare in 2017 but he could get more seats if he wins over more LD tactical votes and makes some progress in Scotland
    If he wanted Miliband as his replacement why did he not promote him fast and early? Why bring Ruth Kelly into the cabinet ahead of him when there was a vacancy at Education and give Margaret Beckett the Foreign Office in 2006?

    The truth is Blair didn’t want Brown to succeed him but knew there was no way of avoiding it except one - firing him as Chancellor. Which he was not willing to do.
  • My gut feeling is that the next GE will be a 2010 or 2015 repeat

    Cameron becomes PM? These days,after Johnson, I could live with that!
    You silly sausage! :)

    I think Keir Starmer might be the Cameron of Labour
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,483


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Ken Loach is the soul of the Labour Party? The soul seems to have wandered off of its own accord multiple times for long periods.

    To be sure even a member would not be expected to feel confortable with every iteration of a party, that would be someone particularly tribal, but according to wikipedia he was not a member for 21 years, backing other parties. That seems a low level of attachment to be the party's soul - Corbyn by contrast was in it the whole time.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,483
    I hope Root is the last man in - he's had a great summer, but a big score not out will really help him keep close to an average of 50, which he deserves.
  • kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    The triumph of hope over experience.

    Though the performance has shown the silliness of people assuming no way back after one bad day.
    I hold my hands up to that

    England's start was very poor but fair play to the poster who expected it to go for 5 days

    What do I know about cricket
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,297
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    Because sports punters bet with their hearts not their heads.

    Or because there is a gambling syndicate in India trying to rig the odds.

    Or possibly both.
    The draw looks decent at nearly 3.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    kle4 said:

    I hope Root is the last man in - he's had a great summer, but a big score not out will really help him keep close to an average of 50, which he deserves.

    If my maths is correct, assuming he is dismissed in this innings he needs 68 more runs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,297
    edited August 2021
    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    The triumph of hope over experience.

    Though the performance has shown the silliness of people assuming no way back after one bad day.
    Certainly all 3 results are possible, and India win is least likely, but I'm struggling to see the England win as almost twice as likely as the draw - which is what the odds right now are saying.

    But, yes, I get that '3rd innings dynamic' point being made by a couple of posters who I think follow cricket more than I do.

    So let's see what goes down.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,541
    edited August 2021
    kle4 said:


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Ken Loach is the soul of the Labour Party? The soul seems to have wandered off of its own accord multiple times for long periods.

    To be sure even a member would not be expected to feel confortable with every iteration of a party, that would be someone particularly tribal, but according to wikipedia he was not a member for 21 years, backing other parties. That seems a low level of attachment to be the party's soul - Corbyn by contrast was in it the whole time.
    That's right - Ken Loach is a lifelong socialist, not a lifelong Labour Party member.

    For the record, Loach has only been expelled because he is a member of Labour against the Witchhunt, which was formed to campaign to reinstate those expelled for anti-semitism amongst other things. Had he wished to stay a member of the Labour Party, Loach could have simply resigned from LAtW. He made his choice.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    The triumph of hope over experience.

    Though the performance has shown the silliness of people assuming no way back after one bad day.
    Certainly all 3 results are possible, and India win is least likely, but I'm struggling to see the England win as much likelier than the draw - which is what the odds right now are saying.

    But, yes, I get that '3rd innings dynamic' point being made by a couple of posters who I think follow cricket more than I do.

    So let's see what goes down.
    Judging by England’s recent performance about 30 catches.
  • ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    The triumph of hope over experience.

    Though the performance has shown the silliness of people assuming no way back after one bad day.
    Certainly all 3 results are possible, and India win is least likely, but I'm struggling to see the England win as much likelier than the draw - which is what the odds right now are saying.

    But, yes, I get that '3rd innings dynamic' point being made by a couple of posters who I think follow cricket more than I do.

    So let's see what goes down.
    Judging by England’s recent performance about 30 catches.
    I know it's been below par for rather longer, but did wonder whether the Red for Ruth crowd yesterday might have hindered fielders a bit yesterday. Does seem a bit unfair on test cricketers to make the background red!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,483
    I love that Joe Root's 50 conversion rate is around 1 in 4 normally (I think that's what they said), but in 2021 he has converted 4 of 5 - we need the Ashes not to be delayed!
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,343
    Aslan said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I am so bored by SKS I just can't stand it. I wish he'd say 'fuck' on R4 or buy an SF90 in Abu Dhabi blue with a crema interior or call for the violent overthrow of the government.

    He cannot out personality Boris - for good and ill - and trying would look silly. So I fear you will be left disappointed.
    Every major politician is going to be defined by his opponents with a negative version of themselves. Smart politicians want to have the negative description as being something that is (a) not much of a negative when things get serious and (b) easily changeable when needed. "Dull and boring" is pretty good, so is "PR focused". Much better than "chronically lazy", "wildly immoral" or "raving nutbar Marxist".
    Or "Prince Nut Nuts" perhaps.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    kle4 said:

    I love that Joe Root's 50 conversion rate is around 1 in 4 normally (I think that's what they said), but in 2021 he has converted 4 of 5 - we need the Ashes not to be delayed!

    It’s not quite that bad. 22 hundreds, 50 fifties. So around two in five.

    By contrast, for Steve Smith those figures are 27 and 31, and for Kane Williamson 24 and 33.

    If he converted at the same rate he would have around 34 centuries by now.

    Which is why those two have much better averages than Root.

    As Moeen gets out chasing one.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,297
    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    Well, that was embarrassingly easy.

    Now through to the tail.
  • ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that Joe Root's 50 conversion rate is around 1 in 4 normally (I think that's what they said), but in 2021 he has converted 4 of 5 - we need the Ashes not to be delayed!

    It’s not quite that bad. 22 hundreds, 50 fifties. So around two in five.

    By contrast, for Steve Smith those figures are 27 and 31, and for Kane Williamson 24 and 33.

    If he converted at the same rate he would have around 34 centuries by now.

    Which is why those two have much better averages than Root.

    As Moeen gets out chasing one.
    Isn't it 22/(22+50) so just over 30% conversion rate?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 988
    Afghanistan: If it wasnt clear before it is now, the Taliban have been negotiating as much of their occupations as winning them by fighting.

    There are stories coming out of Kabul that the central government is pretty much stuffed, its one exception being the capital but rumours abound of government and senior security personnel trying to get out, and being stopped.

    As regards Kabul airport, who is actually in charge? The Afghans, the Turkish or soon to be the Americans? As of a few days ago US officials said the lead was with Turkey. You somehow doubt that will remain so.

    There is every chance the Taliban will not restrict an evacuation both because it does them no harm to allow it to pass (since plenty of Afghan officials will go along with foreign troops) but also because a fully committed operation could be extremely expensive given the likely US firepower. Thre Biden government are hoping that such pragmatism wins out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    edited August 2021

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    I love that Joe Root's 50 conversion rate is around 1 in 4 normally (I think that's what they said), but in 2021 he has converted 4 of 5 - we need the Ashes not to be delayed!

    It’s not quite that bad. 22 hundreds, 50 fifties. So around two in five.

    By contrast, for Steve Smith those figures are 27 and 31, and for Kane Williamson 24 and 33.

    If he converted at the same rate he would have around 34 centuries by now.

    Which is why those two have much better averages than Root.

    As Moeen gets out chasing one.
    Isn't it 22/(22+50) so just over 30% conversion rate?
    Yes, it would be.

    I’m so good at maths I actually refuse to teach it in case the children are dazzled by my awesomeness.

    Well, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    My gut feeling is that the next GE will be a 2010 or 2015 repeat

    Cameron becomes PM? These days,after Johnson, I could live with that!
    You silly sausage! :)

    I think Keir Starmer might be the Cameron of Labour
    Which unpopular and dull Conservative is going to take over from the current Electoral success machine for him to beat, if we are going to use the Cameron analogy?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    So India will have a first innings lead of around 15-20.

    Fairly even, but England will have to bat last.

    I can hear Kohli cursing leaving Ashwin out, but Jadeja will still be a formidable proposition.
  • I'm so scared of making any positive predictions about England or their players during matches, as they so swiftly seem to prove those that do wrong.. But, Robinson might just be able to stick around a while and let Root get us past their total. He's only played 3 Tests and already has a 42 against NZ..
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,541

    I'm so scared of making any positive predictions about England or their players during matches, as they so swiftly seem to prove those that do wrong.. But, Robinson might just be able to stick around a while and let Root get us past their total. He's only played 3 Tests and already has a 42 against NZ..

    Yes, Ollie's batting is better than his tweeting. He's scored a century and seven 50s for Sussex.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
  • As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924
    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    Not me, one of the other PBers - but from what I read it is astounding.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Graham Dilley?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,197
    edited August 2021
    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    Shaun Lintern @ShaunLintern
    From next week, soldiers will be deployed to several of England's ambulance services after a military aid request to
    @DefenceHQ by
    @DHSCgovuk
    - I say again for the NHS to be here in August is hugely worrying.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    Not me, one of the other PBers - but from what I read it is astounding.
    Edit: as confirmed by Leon now of course!
  • isam said:

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Graham Dilley?
    Tick.

    Dilley was like Darren Gough and Stuart Broad a more than useful batsmen when young who steadily deteriorated.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,260
    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    Except that would make the private schools even more elitist as without tax breaks fewer of them would offer scholarships and bursaries to those who would otherwise be unable to afford the fees.

    So the top private schools would become even more only limited to the offspring of the rich
  • isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    If they were intercepted, doesn't that mean that it's, er, under control?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,450
    Dura_Ace said:

    I am so bored by SKS I just can't stand it. I wish he'd say 'fuck' on R4 or buy an SF90 in Abu Dhabi blue with a crema interior or call for the violent overthrow of the government.

    he makes john major look hip and dynamic, could they have picked a bigger nonentity if they tried.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,483
    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    Whether people agree with his solutions or not, it's definitely an issue that so many are making unsafe or illegal crossings.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,197
    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.

  • Shaun Lintern @ShaunLintern
    From next week, soldiers will be deployed to several of England's ambulance services after a military aid request to
    @DefenceHQ by
    @DHSCgovuk
    - I say again for the NHS to be here in August is hugely worrying.

    Now imagine what's going to happen to countries which have lower vaccination rates and are not as far along the Delta infection curve.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    If they were intercepted, doesn't that mean that it's, er, under control?
    er, I guess it does, but he has been banging on about the thousands that have already arrived,which might have spurred people into thinking about stopping the next lot
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    Excellent, thanks - hadn't seen that, and it is open access too - now printing for bathtime reading.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Your last point may well be true but we don't have all year around sea crossing. It's a summer thing. So far anyway.
  • I'm so scared of making any positive predictions about England or their players during matches, as they so swiftly seem to prove those that do wrong.. But, Robinson might just be able to stick around a while and let Root get us past their total. He's only played 3 Tests and already has a 42 against NZ..

    Yes, Ollie's batting is better than his tweeting. He's scored a century and seven 50s for Sussex.
    I think the ECB dealt with it quite well, and he made a proper apology. Though in his tweet apologising he did something that everyone seems to do that I find a bit strange - apologising to "anyone offended". That always seems to leave open the option that nobody might be offended, but I'll apologise if I have to. I'm not doubting Ollie's sincerity - or that of probably most of those that use the term - but I always think that phrasing it "everyone that I have offended" would sound less open to that interpretation..

    Oh.. and he's out
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,715
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    David Lammy just told us on the radio that he is a fan of public schools as a part of our educational system and wouldn't want to ban them. The challenge is to improve the state schools.

    Which, for everyone apart from bien pensant champagne socialists, is a pretty bleeding obvious and sensible position to take.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,715
    PS glad that the Beeb picked up David Skelton's new book.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,483
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    I'd never heard of it, that's remarkable!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,450
    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    LOL. what an absolute bellend. Total mince.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    Excellent, thanks - hadn't seen that, and it is open access too - now printing for bathtime reading.
    The guy that part wrote that, Freeth - who seems to have decoded the Mechanism after many decades of attempts - also did a superb short 3D visualization of how it worked and what it probably looked like. I watched it at the museum and basically wet myself in a geeky science way - but I bet it’s online, too
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,427
    isam said:

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    If they were intercepted, doesn't that mean that it's, er, under control?
    er, I guess it does, but he has been banging on about the thousands that have already arrived,which might have spurred people into thinking about stopping the next lot
    Fallacy though

    If you intercept 1000 in a day it does not mean only 1000 tried to cross in a day. Just like when they intercept 1 ton of cocaine it doesn't mean only 1 ton total was the amount that was attempted to be smuggled in.

    I have no idea what the successfuly interception rate is and till we know that we don't know how much of a problem it is
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,450

    malcolmg said:


    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    It seems that both Mr and Mrs Sturgeon's sister are on the charge.
    I cannot wait on the series coming out
    PS: Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town. Assume it would have been down in the rough end.
    For all the “Scotch Experts” on here, all of Kilwinning is the rough end. 😎
    Red, there are some gentrified areas where the big knobs live,small enclaves but green and pleasant places.
    Far superior to a rabbit hutch down south for sure.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,541

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Time for Boris to sack the Minister responsible. The tough one who promised, well over a year ago, that she would sort this out. Priti Patel.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,297
    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    They need the votes of "working people" - and lots of them - to have any chance of GTTO. The sort of people who never in a million years will be affording private schools. So you might have thought something like remove the tax breaks, end the charity status, would be a vote winner. But no, because it smacks of class war, politics of envy bla bla, and people here in this country seem to en masse be turned off by this. Me, I think it's a shame, but I have to recognize the reality. Same bizarre (imo) sentiment with Inheritance Tax. People who are not, will not, be significantly impacted by it, people who are bog standard normal 'just getting along' types, like my Uncle Albert, despise this tax, he and they dislike it perhaps more than any other and a proposal to hike it would lose votes. Why? Because it would be seen as small minded, petty, unfair. Class war again. Politics of envy again. Neither policy would be seen as a justifiable and reasonable way to reduce inequality and birth privilege. People don't even get that far in their thinking. They just go, "Yuck, no thanks." This is one of my biggest frustrations with the electorate. But I've learnt to chill about it these days. It's not changing, regardless of what I think or say. My Uncle Albert heard me wax lyrical on this topic tons of times - and I was eloquent and empathetic with him, not sneery - but it made no odds. He's no longer with us, and he's much missed, but he went to his grave unconverted on either private schools or IHT.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,197

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Your last point may well be true but we don't have all year around sea crossing. It's a summer thing. So far anyway.
    Sadly, not true - it's now all year round. There were 150 over the weekend of 9-10th January this year.

    This is now a massive problem, and it's not possible to ignore or dismiss it anymore - it must be addressed:

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/29579/2021-migrants-continue-to-cross-channel-in-hope-of-reaching-uk
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,297
    edited August 2021

    kle4 said:


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Ken Loach is the soul of the Labour Party? The soul seems to have wandered off of its own accord multiple times for long periods.

    To be sure even a member would not be expected to feel confortable with every iteration of a party, that would be someone particularly tribal, but according to wikipedia he was not a member for 21 years, backing other parties. That seems a low level of attachment to be the party's soul - Corbyn by contrast was in it the whole time.
    That's right - Ken Loach is a lifelong socialist, not a lifelong Labour Party member.

    For the record, Loach has only been expelled because he is a member of Labour against the Witchhunt, which was formed to campaign to reinstate those expelled for anti-semitism amongst other things. Had he wished to stay a member of the Labour Party, Loach could have simply resigned from LAtW. He made his choice.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/Z8t4d2gdHLzKi4oJ8

    "I'll be Bobby Charlton." :smile:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,450
    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    how many were not intercepted , likely to be multiple times that. If only Hitler had been as resourceful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    Excellent, thanks - hadn't seen that, and it is open access too - now printing for bathtime reading.
    The guy that part wrote that, Freeth - who seems to have decoded the Mechanism after many decades of attempts - also did a superb short 3D visualization of how it worked and what it probably looked like. I watched it at the museum and basically wet myself in a geeky science way - but I bet it’s online, too
    Bit like seeing Doron Swade's Babbage Engines at the Science Museum running?

    Could this be the film you saw? 27 mins so rather long for a museum exchibitn
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VTduV0C0z8

    A couple of promising shorts from Nature, and a bizarre lego version (but they did use meccano to build old codebreaking stuff)

    https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=120
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 37,450
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:


    Yanis Varoufakis
    @yanisvaroufakis
    I just heard that Kier Starmer expelled Ken Loach from the Labour Party. I hope this is fake news. If not, all he managed is to expel Labour's soul, leaving behind an arid, soulless Labour Party - one that is even poorer than under Blair and his fellow war criminals.

    Ken Loach is the soul of the Labour Party? The soul seems to have wandered off of its own accord multiple times for long periods.

    To be sure even a member would not be expected to feel confortable with every iteration of a party, that would be someone particularly tribal, but according to wikipedia he was not a member for 21 years, backing other parties. That seems a low level of attachment to be the party's soul - Corbyn by contrast was in it the whole time.
    That's right - Ken Loach is a lifelong socialist, not a lifelong Labour Party member.

    For the record, Loach has only been expelled because he is a member of Labour against the Witchhunt, which was formed to campaign to reinstate those expelled for anti-semitism amongst other things. Had he wished to stay a member of the Labour Party, Loach could have simply resigned from LAtW. He made his choice.
    https://images.app.goo.gl/Z8t4d2gdHLzKi4oJ8

    "I'll be Bobby Charlton." :smile:
    You will not require a comb then.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876
    malcolmg said:

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    how many were not intercepted , likely to be multiple times that. If only Hitler had been as resourceful.
    aaah, don't mention the war!
  • isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Your last point may well be true but we don't have all year around sea crossing. It's a summer thing. So far anyway.
    Sadly, not true - it's now all year round. There were 150 over the weekend of 9-10th January this year.

    This is now a massive problem, and it's not possible to ignore or dismiss it anymore - it must be addressed:

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/29579/2021-migrants-continue-to-cross-channel-in-hope-of-reaching-uk
    Possible answers:

    1) Tow their boats to within ten miles of Heligoland and then cast them adrift.

    2) Let them in but with the proviso they must live in either Scotland or Northern Ireland.

    3) Lifetime indentured labour as fruit pickers, care home workers or whatever is the claimed area of labour shortages.

    4) Have their claims processed in the Falklands or Pitcairn after a slow voyage and at a rate of one per hour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
    Arguably delay is a good strategy, as it seems possible (even likely) that in a few seasons the covid will mutate to a less dangerous form and be more like seasonal cold.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,260
    edited August 2021
    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    They need the votes of "working people" - and lots of them - to have any chance of GTTO. The sort of people who never in a million years will be affording private schools. So you might have thought something like remove the tax breaks, end the charity status, would be a vote winner. But no, because it smacks of class war, politics of envy bla bla, and people here in this country seem to en masse be turned off by this. Me, I think it's a shame, but I have to recognize the reality. Same bizarre (imo) sentiment with Inheritance Tax. People who are not, will not, be significantly impacted by it, people who are bog standard normal 'just getting along' types, like my Uncle Albert, despise this tax, he and they dislike it perhaps more than any other and a proposal to hike it would lose votes. Why? Because it would be seen as small minded, petty, unfair. Class war again. Politics of envy again. Neither policy would be seen as a justifiable and reasonable way to reduce inequality and birth privilege. People don't even get that far in their thinking. They just go, "Yuck, no thanks." This is one of my biggest frustrations with the electorate. But I've learnt to chill about it these days. It's not changing, regardless of what I think or say. My Uncle Albert heard me wax lyrical on this topic tons of times - and I was eloquent and empathetic with him, not sneery - but it made no odds. He's no longer with us, and he's much missed, but he went to his grave unconverted on either private schools or IHT.
    Why on earth would aspirational working class voters want to end private school tax breaks which fund scholarships and bursaries which would be their only chance of ever getting their children into those private schools if they were bright enough to pass the scholarship exam?

    In London and the South East if you even only own an average priced property you would now be hit by IHT unless you can benefit from Osborne's raising the threshold to £1m for married couples
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,197

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Your last point may well be true but we don't have all year around sea crossing. It's a summer thing. So far anyway.
    Sadly, not true - it's now all year round. There were 150 over the weekend of 9-10th January this year.

    This is now a massive problem, and it's not possible to ignore or dismiss it anymore - it must be addressed:

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/29579/2021-migrants-continue-to-cross-channel-in-hope-of-reaching-uk
    Possible answers:

    1) Tow their boats to within ten miles of Heligoland and then cast them adrift.

    2) Let them in but with the proviso they must live in either Scotland or Northern Ireland.

    3) Lifetime indentured labour as fruit pickers, care home workers or whatever is the claimed area of labour shortages.

    4) Have their claims processed in the Falklands or Pitcairn after a slow voyage and at a rate of one per hour.
    The answer is for British boats to join French boats in French waters and tow every single boat back to France. Face down threats of jumping overboard, or throwing themselves and their children overboard, all authority boats to have divers and swimmers to rescue anyone that does this and prosecute anyone who does so.

    The pull factor to France will rapidly reduce, benefiting France, and no-one will bother anymore.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Alan Knott, Bob Taylor were two. Paul Downton might be third?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
    Arguably delay is a good strategy, as it seems possible (even likely) that in a few seasons the covid will mutate to a less dangerous form and be more like seasonal cold.
    Not practical. The disease is too infectious, too pervasive, and waiting for it to become less nasty will take far too long.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,155
    ydoethur said:

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Alan Knott, Bob Taylor were two. Paul Downton might be third?
    Didnt Mike Brealey get behind the wicket for some reason? in one test-possibly Boycott as well
  • ydoethur said:

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Alan Knott, Bob Taylor were two. Paul Downton might be third?
    Three down, three to go.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    Excellent, thanks - hadn't seen that, and it is open access too - now printing for bathtime reading.
    The guy that part wrote that, Freeth - who seems to have decoded the Mechanism after many decades of attempts - also did a superb short 3D visualization of how it worked and what it probably looked like. I watched it at the museum and basically wet myself in a geeky science way - but I bet it’s online, too
    Bit like seeing Doron Swade's Babbage Engines at the Science Museum running?

    Could this be the film you saw? 27 mins so rather long for a museum exchibitn
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VTduV0C0z8

    A couple of promising shorts from Nature, and a bizarre lego version (but they did use meccano to build old codebreaking stuff)

    https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=120
    The museum version is a jazzed up version of those excellent shorts on Nature. The advantage of the museum version is that it integrates the actual remains with the hypothesised original a bit better. But it’s not significant

    Look at the end of that first Nature video. The ancient Greeks had a machine - a computer - which looked like that. Like something deeply impressive from the late 19th century AD. Stunning

    I was dumbed into silence when I saw it. Kinda the scientific equivalent of Gobekli Tepe in archaeology
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    ydoethur said:

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Alan Knott, Bob Taylor were two. Paul Downton might be third?
    Three down, three to go.
    David Bairstow kept for one match.

    No ideas as to who else might have kept.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,374

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
    Arguably delay is a good strategy, as it seems possible (even likely) that in a few seasons the covid will mutate to a less dangerous form and be more like seasonal cold.
    According to the Zoe symptom study that is starting to happen, post vax, already.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
    Arguably delay is a good strategy, as it seems possible (even likely) that in a few seasons the covid will mutate to a less dangerous form and be more like seasonal cold.
    Plus better treatments are very likely.
  • isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Your last point may well be true but we don't have all year around sea crossing. It's a summer thing. So far anyway.
    Sadly, not true - it's now all year round. There were 150 over the weekend of 9-10th January this year.

    This is now a massive problem, and it's not possible to ignore or dismiss it anymore - it must be addressed:

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/29579/2021-migrants-continue-to-cross-channel-in-hope-of-reaching-uk
    Possible answers:

    1) Tow their boats to within ten miles of Heligoland and then cast them adrift.

    2) Let them in but with the proviso they must live in either Scotland or Northern Ireland.

    3) Lifetime indentured labour as fruit pickers, care home workers or whatever is the claimed area of labour shortages.

    4) Have their claims processed in the Falklands or Pitcairn after a slow voyage and at a rate of one per hour.
    The answer is for British boats to join French boats in French waters and tow every single boat back to France. Face down threats of jumping overboard, or throwing themselves and their children overboard, all authority boats to have divers and swimmers to rescue anyone that does this and prosecute anyone who does so.

    The pull factor to France will rapidly reduce, benefiting France, and no-one will bother anymore.
    Why bother with the divers and swimmers ?

    And why bother with prosecutions ? Just shoot anyone there and then who threated to throw a child overboard.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Time for Boris to sack the Minister responsible. The tough one who promised, well over a year ago, that she would sort this out. Priti Patel.
    But what else can anyone do?

    Unless we are prepared to be ruthlessly tough - letting people drown, or the Rwanda option - this will go on, and on, and get worse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    .

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Careful Casino. When Priti restores capital punishment for various offences including illegal immigration... and treachery, you might have some explaining to do!

    Best to just pretend your happy with how it's all going.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,663

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
    Arguably delay is a good strategy, as it seems possible (even likely) that in a few seasons the covid will mutate to a less dangerous form and be more like seasonal cold.
    Plus better treatments are very likely.
    Fortunately Brendan Rogers has found the cure...

    Brendan Rodgers said he needs to await more information from the medical team on Ryan Bertrand's positive covid test - but says it isn't contagious: https://t.co/afRbxUdycb

    https://twitter.com/BBCRLSport/status/1426579769794207755?s=19
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,197

    .

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Careful Casino. When Priti restores capital punishment for various offences including illegal immigration... and treachery, you might have some explaining to do!

    Best to just pretend your happy with how it's all going.
    Priti is just talking and legislating tough in the hope it satiates public opinion.

    It's not going to achieve anything, except possibly discredit future more effective action.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,149
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    Excellent, thanks - hadn't seen that, and it is open access too - now printing for bathtime reading.
    The guy that part wrote that, Freeth - who seems to have decoded the Mechanism after many decades of attempts - also did a superb short 3D visualization of how it worked and what it probably looked like. I watched it at the museum and basically wet myself in a geeky science way - but I bet it’s online, too
    Bit like seeing Doron Swade's Babbage Engines at the Science Museum running?

    Could this be the film you saw? 27 mins so rather long for a museum exchibitn
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VTduV0C0z8

    A couple of promising shorts from Nature, and a bizarre lego version (but they did use meccano to build old codebreaking stuff)

    https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=120
    The museum version is a jazzed up version of those excellent shorts on Nature. The advantage of the museum version is that it integrates the actual remains with the hypothesised original a bit better. But it’s not significant

    Look at the end of that first Nature video. The ancient Greeks had a machine - a computer - which looked like that. Like something deeply impressive from the late 19th century AD. Stunning

    I was dumbed into silence when I saw it. Kinda the scientific equivalent of Gobekli Tepe in archaeology
    What's so odd is that technology just didn't seem to spread. Maybe not practical enough for the Romans. Or even if they were offered a Babbage engine avant la lettre, they thought, "Why bother when any time we can round up a hundred ready-educated Greek slaves to do the sums?"

    Also - how on earth could they even conceptualise it with their numbering system and no decimal point, or am I missing something? Or was it simply an expression of geometrical thinking, like a dreadnought's gunnery computer? Anyway lots to read and watch.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    edited August 2021
    Test: Cricviz reckons
    Eng 42%, Draw 25%, India 33%

    Betfair
    Eng 43%, Draw 31%, India 25%

    No idea where any edge is tbh - windy.com does show a bit of a chance for rain in the next couple of days.
  • pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    +490 cases in Australia. They're still going in the wrong direction despite the growing lockdown.

    You can either have a messy beginning, a messy middle, or a messy end, but no one is getting out of this pandemic unscathed
    Certainly true for me. I was rather smugly congratulating myself on negotiating the Lethal Reefs of the Pandemic with some aplomb, and then, bang. NO PARMESAN FLAKES

    I will never be smug again. This virus comes for us all, in the end
    Covid will get everyone - and anyone it doesn't kill will contract it at regular intervals for the rest of their lives.

    Once you've had your vaccinations then you've had as much protection as you're going to get. After that, sitting at home as much as possible, diving out of the way if anyone else gets within twenty feet, shuffling around everywhere in a mask - all this stuff might delay the inevitable, but probably not by very much.
    Arguably delay is a good strategy, as it seems possible (even likely) that in a few seasons the covid will mutate to a less dangerous form and be more like seasonal cold.
    For most vaccinated people covid is now less than a summer cold as there's been a 90% reduction in symptomatic infection (and there was plenty of asymptomatic infection even before vaccinations).
  • tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Why are England odds on to win this test match?

    Seems a tad optimistic but they should have a lead at the end of the first innings and that will put pressure on their 3rd innings. Do they go for a big lead and try to win or do they hang on and make sure of the draw? It's tricky. 3rd innings often are.
    It's the great thing about Test Match cricket. Generally batting first is better - especially in Asia - but batting second does have the advantage of not having to worry about whether to enforce the follow on and not having to worry about when to declare in the second innings.
    A bit like being in the Euro currency area then? Fewer things for your government to cock up.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Test: Cricviz reckons
    Eng 42%, Draw 25%, India 33%

    Betfair
    Eng 43%, Draw 31%, India 25%

    No idea where any edge is tbh.

    India's chances are higher than that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,197

    isam said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Nasty Nigel on the money again
    It's absolutely insane. I fancy Blair or even Starmer would have a better grip on this.

    If you had these numbers all-year round, and the French didn't bother at all, we'd be talking well over a third of a million pro-rata, comfortably exceeding all other forms of migration, and more than doubling our net immigration total. And there's no natural limit to it either. Why not 2,000 a day? 5,000? 10,000? Why not create "safe and legal routes" for anyone who feels they need it, and extend that into the millions?

    This is going to return immigration to the centre of British politics, and it has already done so for Conservative voters.
    Your last point may well be true but we don't have all year around sea crossing. It's a summer thing. So far anyway.
    Sadly, not true - it's now all year round. There were 150 over the weekend of 9-10th January this year.

    This is now a massive problem, and it's not possible to ignore or dismiss it anymore - it must be addressed:

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/29579/2021-migrants-continue-to-cross-channel-in-hope-of-reaching-uk
    Possible answers:

    1) Tow their boats to within ten miles of Heligoland and then cast them adrift.

    2) Let them in but with the proviso they must live in either Scotland or Northern Ireland.

    3) Lifetime indentured labour as fruit pickers, care home workers or whatever is the claimed area of labour shortages.

    4) Have their claims processed in the Falklands or Pitcairn after a slow voyage and at a rate of one per hour.
    The answer is for British boats to join French boats in French waters and tow every single boat back to France. Face down threats of jumping overboard, or throwing themselves and their children overboard, all authority boats to have divers and swimmers to rescue anyone that does this and prosecute anyone who does so.

    The pull factor to France will rapidly reduce, benefiting France, and no-one will bother anymore.
    Why bother with the divers and swimmers ?

    And why bother with prosecutions ? Just shoot anyone there and then who threated to throw a child overboard.
    Well, this is the worrying thing: if it's totally unchecked and unaddressed eventually we probably will get a fascist or quasi-fascist Government in this country that uses force, in all its forms, to stop it, and pulls out of all laws and conventions that would otherwise prevent it from doing so. People just won't accept "meh, can't" as an answer - they'll simply look to those with more radical answers.

    We know what it'll do at the same time too - arrest or inter anyone who resists or objects, including many of the leading lights from the activist charities and legal industry - so democrats from all sides of the political spectrum should be interested in getting a grip on this.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    As its PB cricket time here are two cricket questions relating to 40 years ago:

    1) Who had a higher batting average and lower bowling average than Ian Botham against Australia in 1981 ?

    2) Who were the 6 (six!) players who were wicket keeper for England during calendar year 1981 ?

    Alan Knott, Bob Taylor were two. Paul Downton might be third?
    Three down, three to go.
    David Bairstow kept for one match.

    No ideas as to who else might have kept.
    Geoff Humpage in the ODIs versus Australia.

    Jack Richards was reserve wk on the 81/82 tour of India.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 3,760
    edited August 2021
    Could Wood be stiffening the tail?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,924
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    An interesting article. Four things the English dislike especially; theory of any kind, public intellectuals, class envy and hypocrisy.

    Yes, England is riddled with class, and hardly anyone cares. Yes, Boris and Cameron went to Eton and their sons will go somewhere similar. Most people don't care because they don't want that for themselves and aren't envious enough to stop others and are happy with the fact of difference.

    The Tories manage to combine the illusion of lack of theory with a disdain for pseudo intellectuals, and play on the lack of class envy coupled with apparent Labour hypocrisy in a way which ensures that their coalition of support is more stable than Labour's. South Holland and Hartlepool have more in common than Liverpool Walton and Putney
    How come these simple, good hearted folk who want a quiet life colonized half the planet not so very long ago?
    They didn't? Only a tiny share of the British population were involved in running the Empire. And they were disproportionately Scots and Irish.
    Ok different tack then.

    "Free movement was fine for getting cheap plumbers out to big houses in London or Lucinda's gap year in Tuscany. That's why those types liked it."

    Can a country which has just voted for Brexit, with the above sentiment prominent in the mix, be described with a straight face as "averse to class envy"?

    Can it bollocks like.
    The extremes on both right and left love to use class envy to push their points. It makes them feel oppressed and morally righteous. Such sentiments are all over political forums and social media for that reason. But I don't think it is representative of the bulk of voters on either side. Brits are well up for resentment of political elites but they don't particularly resonate with attacks on economic elites, for better or for worse. Most British people are socially ambitious and want to climb the ladder, so they don't resent others for doing so - providing of course that such people didn't cheat to get there.
    You put a rosy glow on it that I wouldn't, but there's some truth in what you say.

    It says a great deal, for example, that in seeking to become competitive at the next GE, Labour, the main party of the progressive left in this country, are unlikely to risk a policy as mild as removing the tax breaks of private schools, for fear of looking unEnglishly intense about class and privilege.
    That flatters their motives. The reality is that those who hate private schools are in the bag anyway, and those who send their children to them are increasingly Labour's client base.
    The Antykythera Mechanism is literally incredible

    Wasn’t it you that turned me on to it? Epharisto

    And the gold of golden Mycenae. Eia Eia Eia ALALA!
    No, Carnyx I think. I have been to the museum but not seen it, so either I'm an idiot or it wasn't there at the time.

    Go to Delphi.
    It’s mind blowing to the extent it’s genuinely hard to comprehend

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84310-w


    ‘Our work reveals the Antikythera Mechanism as a beautiful conception, translated by superb engineering into a device of genius. It challenges all our preconceptions about the technological capabilities of the ancient Greeks.’

    It is the single most impressive scientific/technological artifact I have ever encountered
    Excellent, thanks - hadn't seen that, and it is open access too - now printing for bathtime reading.
    The guy that part wrote that, Freeth - who seems to have decoded the Mechanism after many decades of attempts - also did a superb short 3D visualization of how it worked and what it probably looked like. I watched it at the museum and basically wet myself in a geeky science way - but I bet it’s online, too
    Bit like seeing Doron Swade's Babbage Engines at the Science Museum running?

    Could this be the film you saw? 27 mins so rather long for a museum exchibitn
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VTduV0C0z8

    A couple of promising shorts from Nature, and a bizarre lego version (but they did use meccano to build old codebreaking stuff)

    https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=120
    The museum version is a jazzed up version of those excellent shorts on Nature. The advantage of the museum version is that it integrates the actual remains with the hypothesised original a bit better. But it’s not significant

    Look at the end of that first Nature video. The ancient Greeks had a machine - a computer - which looked like that. Like something deeply impressive from the late 19th century AD. Stunning

    I was dumbed into silence when I saw it. Kinda the scientific equivalent of Gobekli Tepe in archaeology
    What's so odd is that technology just didn't seem to spread. Maybe not practical enough for the Romans. Or even if they were offered a Babbage engine avant la lettre, they thought, "Why bother when any time we can round up a hundred ready-educated Greek slaves to do the sums?"

    Also - how on earth could they even conceptualise it with their numbering system and no decimal point, or am I missing something? Or was it simply an expression of geometrical thinking, like a dreadnought's gunnery computer? Anyway lots to read and watch.
    I know. So many questions. It just doesn’t make sense. Again it reminds me of Gobekli Tepe. How could scattered cavemen without pottery, written language, agriculture or the wheel build this exquisite temple?

    Ditto Antikythera. And if the Greeks had this, what else did they have, that we haven’t dug up?

    Brilliant. I love genuine profound mysteries like this

    Another reason for you to come to Athens!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903
    Geoff Boycott’s ghost bats at Lord’s.

    What a shambles.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,066
    Great performance from England to get a first innings lead.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    Looks like Floridas's death curve is accelerating.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,903

    Could Wood be stiffening the tail?

    Off to ConHome for a month with you,
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,066
    Leon said:

    NEW RECORD NUMBERS

    "The Home Office has confirmed 592 people were rescued or intercepted during 16 incidents dealt with by the UK on Thursday, and said the French intercepted 18 crossings, preventing 420 people from setting out on the journey."

    That's well over 1,000 people who attempted to cross in a single day and would have done if the French hadn't bothered.

    Completely and totally out-of-control.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-58213583

    Time for Boris to sack the Minister responsible. The tough one who promised, well over a year ago, that she would sort this out. Priti Patel.
    But what else can anyone do?

    Unless we are prepared to be ruthlessly tough - letting people drown, or the Rwanda option - this will go on, and on, and get worse.
    We stop people from leaving the French coast.
  • ydoethur said:

    Could Wood be stiffening the tail?

    Off to ConHome for a month with you,
    I warned myself as well..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,757
    Alistair said:

    Looks like Floridas's death curve is accelerating.

    I've got a liability against DeSantis in the next pres market.
This discussion has been closed.