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Don’t fear for Keir – politicalbetting.com

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  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Taxi drivers?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. Seal, the abuse of language has reached the extent that people use the slogan Defund The Police and then claim it doesn't mean defunding the police. If that's false, they're liars, if it's true then they're literally opposing the precise meaning of the words they've chosen to use.

    Plenty of gay and lesbian people have also been pissed off by the BBC redefinition of homosexuality which now is about gender, not sex (ie biology), prioritising subjective perceptions over objective reality.

    And let's not forget the daddy of them all - Leveling Up.

    Que?
    That's vague and so can be meaningless, so it might be infuriating, but I don't think its counter productive in the same way.

    A slogan meaning the opposite of what it seems like is different to one which is not well defined but at least can be assumed to mean 'improve things, er, somehow'.
    Ok. But what slogan are you referring to that means the opposite of what it seems to?
    It was a generic point though Morris Dancer suggested Defund the Police. If not the opposite, it definitely over simplifies (more than a slogan would anyway) the aim in a misleading way, and some have definitely whinged about the confusion rather than addressing it.
    Ah that one. It makes sense in America - people know what it means there - but it doesn't make the journey over here too well.
    Some people in America know what it’s meant to mean but no means all, nor indeed the majority I would wager.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,104
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Interesting. Never knew that. Used to drink there regularly before catching my train home when I used to work down there. Thanks.
    There's also a Doric Tavern right next to Waverley Station in Edinburgh - been there a few times. Not sure if it means Scotland generally or the route to the NE!
    It’s been a while since we have been to Edinburgh. Last time we were in leith. Had a lovely meal at Tom Kitchins place. Next time we’re there I’ll drag my wife there
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,711
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    Aberdonian dialect. I lived there for 7 years from University. I have to admit it took me a while to retune my ear. I've never lost it though.

    :)
    Furryboots are ye noo?
    Aberdonian in a shoe shop “Fit fit fits fit fit”.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8txQMIxKIk
    This brings a tear to my eye. Late 70s to late 80s was a lovely time in the city. My university hasn't changed that much.
    :)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 8,247
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,651

    I shouldn't think any of the Scot Nat posters will care but, for the record..

    I'm against Scottish independence because I like the UK. It's the country I feel I've always lived in, and it's a special one because we get to be English/Scottish/Welsh/Irish, or a mix, as well or instead if we want. But I'm not particularly attached to that, and would wish an independent Scotland well while supporting constructive engagement between Scot/RUK governments and people.

    I can easily imagine that if I were born, raised and living in Scotland, I might be an independence supporter. For much the same reasons that I supported Brexit as a Brit.

    I sometimes enjoy the banter on here over the divide, but sometimes it just seems to get unnecessarily nasty. I don't know if there's really anything in that, or if it's just down to my mood on reading it.

    Please play nicely :smiley:

    See, now this is exactly the sentiment that the other day I was explaining one would expect to hear on Scottish independence from an English Leaver who values the Union. Here we have it from the horse's mouth and it's good to see. Real empathy for the core Sindy argument of sovereignty (this being the core Brexit argument too) whilst nevertheless disagreeing with it and hoping it never comes to pass. This scans. It works.

    A stark contrast with those English Leavers who are viscerally 100% anti Sindy and the SNP, who think the subsidized Scots are crazy to want independence, that they have a cheek to even think about it.

    This latter group - no names no packdrill - are SCOTAPHOBES.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Like it.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,711

    What’s the difference between a Scotsman and Walt Disney?

    A Scotsman wears a kilt and Walt Disnae!

    Q) What's the other name for the Dunlop tyre manufacterers?

    A) McIntyre

    because they've been mackin tyres for years.

    (i'll get my coat..)


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,097
    McIntyre means 'son of the carpenter', doesn't it?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Yet you're the one committed to dying, romantically, on a motorbike in the next 5-10 years?


    By the way, please try not to do this. You are an entertaining PB contributor, and your death would be regrettable, if only for that reason



  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Yet you're the one committed to dying, romantically, on a motorbike in the next 5-10 years?


    By the way, please try not to do this. You are an entertaining PB contributor, and your death would be regrettable, if only for that reason



    Thanks for spoiling the ending, you git.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,651
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. Seal, the abuse of language has reached the extent that people use the slogan Defund The Police and then claim it doesn't mean defunding the police. If that's false, they're liars, if it's true then they're literally opposing the precise meaning of the words they've chosen to use.

    Plenty of gay and lesbian people have also been pissed off by the BBC redefinition of homosexuality which now is about gender, not sex (ie biology), prioritising subjective perceptions over objective reality.

    And let's not forget the daddy of them all - Leveling Up.

    Que?
    That's vague and so can be meaningless, so it might be infuriating, but I don't think its counter productive in the same way.

    A slogan meaning the opposite of what it seems like is different to one which is not well defined but at least can be assumed to mean 'improve things, er, somehow'.
    Ok. But what slogan are you referring to that means the opposite of what it seems to?
    It was a generic point though Morris Dancer suggested Defund the Police. If not the opposite, it definitely over simplifies (more than a slogan would anyway) the aim in a misleading way, and some have definitely whinged about the confusion rather than addressing it.
    Ah that one. It makes sense in America - people know what it means there - but it doesn't make the journey over here too well.
    Some people in America know what it’s meant to mean but no means all, nor indeed the majority I would wager.
    My understanding is that in the cities where it resonates most people know it means a switch of resource and emphasis from gung ho policing to more of a community 'by consent' type of approach. But of course I'm only getting this 2nd hand from American commentators who I happen to come across and read.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,097
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Yet you're the one committed to dying, romantically, on a motorbike in the next 5-10 years?


    By the way, please try not to do this. You are an entertaining PB contributor, and your death would be regrettable, if only for that reason



    Thanks for spoiling the ending, you git.
    Same applies. Sorry.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,024
    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Leon's hair dye dripping into his beer?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    PS I assume you've been to see the Agora obvs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,450
    edited August 2021
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    You must be about 200 miles from Olympia which might be worth a detour in this year of Tokyo 2020.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,907
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    Delphi is staggering, worth the trip just to see the bronze charioteer and the view looking down over the theatre. A bit buggered up by forest fires ATM though
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 11,662
    I would like to take this moment to point out I am currently leading the PB fantasy league.

    Like my dear club Norwich, I suspect that peak performance will be achieved today, fore the first match is yet complete, and it will be downhill from there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    Delphi is staggering, worth the trip just to see the bronze charioteer and the view looking down over the theatre. A bit buggered up by forest fires ATM though
    My old headmaster reckoned it was the most beautiful place he had ever seen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    I promise to return with many recommendations.

    Delphi is pretty alluring, but Sounion is more practical. Both look wild. Tricky

    By the way I suggest you DON'T wait for this "whole Covid thing to be over" before travelling again. I'm not sure it is ever going to be over, travel will never be what it was, there will always be a new, unpleasant risk.

    So you can either sit at home with the odd day trip to St Andrews in the rain, or you can think Fuck it, I want to travel and sit in the sun, and you cope with the extra bureaucracy (which actually isn't that bad) and you pay for the tests (which are annoying but not crippling).

    The advantage is that you see places that are normally swimming with tourists in a much nicer calmer environment.

    The Tower of the Four Winds the other day was virtually deserted. I was told that in August there would normally be long irritable queues. I just breezed in like a zephyr
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    If you’re doing Plato’s you may be interested in Police Academy 4: Citizens on Patrol. It was the last to feature Steve Guttenberg (he left soon after to work on his idea for a printed Bible) it’s still worth a look for those interested in the “Academy” genre.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    I promise to return with many recommendations.

    Delphi is pretty alluring, but Sounion is more practical. Both look wild. Tricky

    By the way I suggest you DON'T wait for this "whole Covid thing to be over" before travelling again. I'm not sure it is ever going to be over, travel will never be what it was, there will always be a new, unpleasant risk.

    So you can either sit at home with the odd day trip to St Andrews in the rain, or you can think Fuck it, I want to travel and sit in the sun, and you cope with the extra bureaucracy (which actually isn't that bad) and you pay for the tests (which are annoying but not crippling).

    The advantage is that you see places that are normally swimming with tourists in a much nicer calmer environment.

    The Tower of the Four Winds the other day was virtually deserted. I was told that in August there would normally be long irritable queues. I just breezed in like a zephyr
    Delphi was of course the navel of the universe. And its oracle an apt symbol of polling reports. Enigmatic answers to suppliants' questions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    If you’re doing Plato’s you may be interested in Police Academy 4: Citizens on Patrol. It was the last to feature Steve Guttenberg (he left soon after to work on his idea for a printed Bible) it’s still worth a look for those interested in the “Academy” genre.
    hahahaha
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Alol the more so, for, as Cyclefree reminded us all, Naples is Hellenic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,796
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    Cap Sounion definitely worth it, Marathon probably not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    edited August 2021
    What is it about Greece that makes you feel healthier, and happier, and calmer?

    Is it the three large excellent beers I have just drunk on a rooftop bar while staring at the Karyatids of the Parthenon or is it something else?

    I reckon it is something else. Partly the endless sun, partly the fact you are outdoors all day, partly the fact you get lots of exercise (swimming if you're by the sea, hiking if you're sightseeing). But also the simple yet delicious food. Fish and salad, lamb and salad, fish and more greek salad. A few chips. Fish again. Some squid. Almost no choice. Fish again! Having no choice is like a luxury in itself, another anxiety taken away

    And so one sublime day blurs into the other, and each day dies with dark Santorini wine, and the sleep is as deep as the Saronic Gulf

  • Leon said:

    What is it about Greece that makes you feel healthier, and happier, and calmer?

    Is it the three large excellent beers I have just drunk on a rooftop bar while staring at the Karyatids of the Parthenon or is it something else?

    I reckon it is something else. Partly the endless sun, partly the fact you are outdoors all day, partly the fact you get lots of exercise (swimming if you're by the sea, hiking if you're sightseeing). But also the simple yet delicious food. Fish and salad, lamb and salad, fish and more greek salad. A few chips. Fish again. Some squid. Almost no choice. Fish again! Having no choice is like a luxury in itself, another anxiety taken away

    And so one sublime day blurs into the other, and each day dies with dark Santorini wine, and the sleep is as deep as the Saronic Gulf

    Sounds like my Deliveroo order: kebab (with salad); fish and chips.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,736
    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,024
    Incidentally talk of Death in Venice reminds me of story of the real Tadzio who was apparently well aware of the effect he had on poor old Thomas. He went on to live the disrupted life of many 20thC Poles; one bit of luck was being made POW by the Nazis rather than the Soviets.

    https://xtramagazine.com/culture/who-was-the-real-tadzio-73215
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,898

    MattW said:

    OT:

    One for @NickPalmer .

    Nick, what is your current view on the UK-Australia Trade Deal?

    I thought it had gone quiet - no press coverage - then I picked up from Which that there seems to be a firm commitment to exclude hormone treated beef, and a chapter in the agreement on animal welfare, which seems to have received no coverage outside the specialist press.

    Which Link:
    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/07/five-changes-the-uk-australia-trade-deal-could-make-to-your-food-finances-and-data-rights/
    Parliamentary Report:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9204/

    Do you have any knowledge as to where we are on this?

    I thought the Great British Public were not allowed to know any details.
    Not via the Press anyway :smile:

    Lots of media gubbing about hormone-treated beef up until about June 15th, then the Govt said it won't be allowed in, plus published some more (though not enough) detail on welfare etc:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-australia-free-trade-agreement-negotiations-agreement-in-principle/uk-australia-fta-negotiations-agreement-in-principle

    Since when media seem to have been mainly curiously silent about details. I may have missed some stuff, as I haven't read the last 2 months of all the papers.

    I'm after the detail where the devil is.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 11,450
    edited August 2021
    The MoD blew the gaffe on a top secret SAS hacking unit by openly advertising jobs in it.
    https://www.theregister.com/2021/08/13/sas_mab5_secret_hacker_squad_hereford/

    Something for Priti Patel Damian Hinds to look into.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    Taz said:

    The govt slashing costs of PCR tests by 20%.

    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1426446910609629186?s=21

    Down to just usary rather than highway robbery
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    This book has been recommended here every day but a quick rummage in the archives shows pb (in the shape of its former tennis correspondent @HenryGManson) was onto Skelton back in 2013.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Are you on your jack Jones
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,907
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Did you get to commune with any more ancient philosophers?
    Not yet, but I am taking PB advice on places to visit in Athens- esp yours. I've done my knapping for the day, hence my beery lunch, soon I will be off to the Archeaological Museum, to see the Antykwhatsis Mechanism


    Also on my To Do list:

    Parthenon (seen it before but decades ago)
    Plato's Academy
    The old red light district by the Diplyon Gate (sp?)
    Museum of Cycladic art (I love Cycladic art)


    Maybe a day trip to Sounion or even Delphi if I get the time

    Any other suggestions?
    Dipylon.

    I can't make any because I have never been. I was rather hoping to get advice from you ...! But the Academy sounds a great idea.

    I've seen pics of Sounion, which are promising to put it mildly. But Delphi is famous. It's not a choice I'd like to make.

    I promise to return with many recommendations.

    Delphi is pretty alluring, but Sounion is more practical. Both look wild. Tricky

    By the way I suggest you DON'T wait for this "whole Covid thing to be over" before travelling again. I'm not sure it is ever going to be over, travel will never be what it was, there will always be a new, unpleasant risk.

    So you can either sit at home with the odd day trip to St Andrews in the rain, or you can think Fuck it, I want to travel and sit in the sun, and you cope with the extra bureaucracy (which actually isn't that bad) and you pay for the tests (which are annoying but not crippling).

    The advantage is that you see places that are normally swimming with tourists in a much nicer calmer environment.

    The Tower of the Four Winds the other day was virtually deserted. I was told that in August there would normally be long irritable queues. I just breezed in like a zephyr
    So go to Delphi. Numinous is the word for it, and nothing diminishes numinosity like the 50 coachloads a day of cruise shippers it usually gets.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014

    MattW said:

    OT:

    One for @NickPalmer .

    Nick, what is your current view on the UK-Australia Trade Deal?

    I thought it had gone quiet - no press coverage - then I picked up from Which that there seems to be a firm commitment to exclude hormone treated beef, and a chapter in the agreement on animal welfare, which seems to have received no coverage outside the specialist press.

    Which Link:
    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/07/five-changes-the-uk-australia-trade-deal-could-make-to-your-food-finances-and-data-rights/
    Parliamentary Report:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9204/

    Do you have any knowledge as to where we are on this?

    I thought the Great British Public were not allowed to know any details.
    They will buy cheese once they have used up their EU quota, great deal.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 14,736
    Leon said:

    What is it about Greece that makes you feel healthier, and happier, and calmer?

    Is it the three large excellent beers I have just drunk on a rooftop bar while staring at the Karyatids of the Parthenon or is it something else?

    I reckon it is something else. Partly the endless sun, partly the fact you are outdoors all day, partly the fact you get lots of exercise (swimming if you're by the sea, hiking if you're sightseeing). But also the simple yet delicious food. Fish and salad, lamb and salad, fish and more greek salad. A few chips. Fish again. Some squid. Almost no choice. Fish again! Having no choice is like a luxury in itself, another anxiety taken away

    And so one sublime day blurs into the other, and each day dies with dark Santorini wine, and the sleep is as deep as the Saronic Gulf

    Can't say because I've never been to Greece. Something to look forward to.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    edited August 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,058
    Lindelorf playing like a man that has just seen the stadium cheer the arrival of his replacement and thinks sod that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,898
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    The govt slashing costs of PCR tests by 20%.

    https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1426446910609629186?s=21

    Down to just usary rather than highway robbery
    What do these actually cost the NHS to do?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,898
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    It seems that both Mr and Mrs Sturgeon's sister are on the charge.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    edited August 2021
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    It seems that both Mr and Mrs Sturgeon's sister are on the charge.
    I cannot wait on the series coming out
    PS: Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town. Assume it would have been down in the rough end.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,024
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,907
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    And yet you’re on PB nevertheless? That’s commitment. Or something.
    We're in Gustav von Aschenbach territory at this point.
    Yet you're the one committed to dying, romantically, on a motorbike in the next 5-10 years?


    By the way, please try not to do this. You are an entertaining PB contributor, and your death would be regrettable, if only for that reason



    That's more of a Shangri-Las narrative.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,962

    What’s the difference between a Scotsman and Walt Disney?

    A Scotsman wears a kilt and Walt Disnae!

    Q) What's the other name for the Dunlop tyre manufacterers?

    A) McIntyre

    because they've been mackin tyres for years.

    (i'll get my coat..)


    The captain of a ship in Glasgow was showing two ladies round when it began to rain. Concerned they would get very wet, he shouted down the engine room hatch: ‘Do you have a large macintosh there that would protect these ladies?’

    And back came the answer, ‘No, but there’s a wee McGregor that’s willing tae try.’
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,911
    MattW said:

    OT:

    One for @NickPalmer .

    Nick, what is your current view on the UK-Australia Trade Deal?

    I thought it had gone quiet - no press coverage - then I picked up from Which that there seems to be a firm commitment to exclude hormone treated beef, and a chapter in the agreement on animal welfare, which seems to have received no coverage outside the specialist press.

    Which Link:
    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/07/five-changes-the-uk-australia-trade-deal-could-make-to-your-food-finances-and-data-rights/
    Parliamentary Report:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9204/

    Do you have any knowledge as to where we are on this?

    Only the Australian government has published much detail - I don't have the link to hand but could dig it out on Monday if you like. Briefly, our understanding is that the British have accepted beef from feed lots (crowded low-welfare compounds) and barren cages for hens (relates to egg products since actual eggs are unlikely to be exported).

    A further problem which was not immediately clear is that although there is, as widely announced, a long transition period, a huge amount (much more than currently imported) is allowed in from day 1. I've not yet seen confirmation of the claim in Which that hormone-treated beef will be excluded. A problem relating more to human health is that the Australians use vastly more antibiotics (3-16 times as much as in Britain, depending on species), which is normally a reflection of bad conditions (the farmers accepts contamination but tries to stop effects by mass use of antibiotics) and will tend to lead to antibiotic resistance leaking into people.

    It would of course be helpful to everyone if the British government would actually publish the agreement, but I gather they are still tinkering with the details.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    ydoethur said:

    What’s the difference between a Scotsman and Walt Disney?

    A Scotsman wears a kilt and Walt Disnae!

    Q) What's the other name for the Dunlop tyre manufacterers?

    A) McIntyre

    because they've been mackin tyres for years.

    (i'll get my coat..)


    The captain of a ship in Glasgow was showing two ladies round when it began to rain. Concerned they would get very wet, he shouted down the engine room hatch: ‘Do you have a large macintosh there that would protect these ladies?’

    And back came the answer, ‘No, but there’s a wee McGregor that’s willing tae try.’
    It works even better if you use 'cover' rather than 'protect' ...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Today I learned that Vincent van Gogh worked for a while as a supply teacher in Ramsgate.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 690

    Leon said:

    What is it about Greece that makes you feel healthier, and happier, and calmer?

    Is it the three large excellent beers I have just drunk on a rooftop bar while staring at the Karyatids of the Parthenon or is it something else?

    I reckon it is something else. Partly the endless sun, partly the fact you are outdoors all day, partly the fact you get lots of exercise (swimming if you're by the sea, hiking if you're sightseeing). But also the simple yet delicious food. Fish and salad, lamb and salad, fish and more greek salad. A few chips. Fish again. Some squid. Almost no choice. Fish again! Having no choice is like a luxury in itself, another anxiety taken away

    And so one sublime day blurs into the other, and each day dies with dark Santorini wine, and the sleep is as deep as the Saronic Gulf

    Sounds like my Deliveroo order: kebab (with salad); fish and chips.
    We just had chippy dinner from a new place (to us). Immaculate, translucent white fish, and perfect beef dripping chips. Not had better in the benighted South.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,197

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Once Scotland and NI have gone the impetus towards independence will be taken up here in Wales for independence too.
    Nope, Wales is now the most Unionist nation in the UK.

    According to Yougov last year only 39% of Welsh voters wanted independence, compared to 49% of English voters who wanted independence.

    Polls at the same time showed 49% of NI voters wanted a United Ireland and 55% of Scots wanted independence (though now most polls show most Scots still want to stay in the UK)

    https://order-order.com/2020/08/19/wales-is-most-pro-uk-nation/.

    If the UK broke up while England would still be a G20 nation and Scotland could still rejoin the EU, Wales voted for Brexit in 2016 and out of the UK would be completely alone.

    Wales also relies even more on Westminster subsidy than Scotland does
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,836
    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    Nothing like that ever seen on here - no siree!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,066
    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    On the other hand, I am sitting on a sun-burned rooftop bar in Athens, eating prawn Saganaki salad, drinking cold Pirik beer, and staring right at the Acropolis, with the deep blue Med beyond. So there's that

    Are you on your jack Jones
    You're not a deep thinker, are you Malcolm?

    Travelling alone is one of THE great pleasures, as any serious traveller knows. Sure, travelling with a lover, friends, even family, is fun, but you end up having the same conversations as you would at home, only with cheaper beer

    Travel alone and you are challenged, but you also get to be supremely selfish, and you end up having new experiences that you would otherwise miss, you also make new friends, maybe even new lovers. I've travelled the world and more than half of my wildest adventures have come when travelling on my tod.

    I remember breaking down in my four wheel drive in the middle of the roadless desert in southern Namibia, fifty miles from the next human. Superb. Just an incredible feeling. Completely self reliant. Just me. And God. Sublime

    It helps if you have meaningful work to do, I admit that. But I can knap a dildo anywhere

    And now, to the Antykythera Mechanism!

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,197

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Nope, Unionist parties still win more votes than Nationalists in NI and Antrim will never accept rule by Dublin.

    BTW Tyrone and Fermanagh both had Nationalist AND Catholic majorities at the time of partition.

    1918 Election:

    Tyrone total vote:

    Nat 54.6%
    Uni 45.4%

    Fermanagh total vote:

    Nat 53.6%
    Uni 46.4%


    1911 Census:

    Tyrone 55.4% Catholic
    Fermanagh 56.2%

    1926 Census:

    Tyrone 55.5% Catholic
    Fermanagh 56.0%
    However half its MPs were Unionists
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,197

    Ken Loach expelled from Labour this morning

    Ken Loach & Sixteen Films
    @KenLoachSixteen
    ·
    1h
    'Labour HQ finally decided I'm not fit to be a member of their party, as I will not disown those already expelled. Well...' KL

    Loach loathed Blair and was no fan of Kinnock either.

    The fact he hates Starmer is not necessarily a negative for him. The only Labour leaders Loach liked are Foot and Corbyn who were unelectable.

    He is a good filmmaker not a politician
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,024
    HYUFD will no doubt be ecstatic to know that Anna Soubry echoes almost exactly his own position on Afghanistan. Soubs is sounding more and more like an FBPE version of Edwina Currie; for the avoidance of doubt this is a bad thing.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,796
    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Once Scotland and NI have gone the impetus towards independence will be taken up here in Wales for independence too.
    Nope, Wales is now the most Unionist nation in the UK.

    According to Yougov last year only 39% of Welsh voters wanted independence, compared to 49% of English voters who wanted independence.

    Polls at the same time showed 49% of NI voters wanted a United Ireland and 55% of Scots wanted independence (though now most polls show most Scots still want to stay in the UK)

    https://order-order.com/2020/08/19/wales-is-most-pro-uk-nation/.

    If the UK broke up while England would still be a G20 nation and Scotland could still rejoin the EU, Wales voted for Brexit in 2016 and out of the UK would be completely alone.

    Wales also relies even more on Westminster subsidy than Scotland does
    The figures you are giving in your second sentence don't exist. They are not poll results. They're made up from differtent polls from, presumably, different times and with different questions, and that link you give gives a broken link when one tries to check.

    Thank you very much for cluttering this very pleasant Saturday thread with fictional tripe. You're welcome.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,197

    HYUFD will no doubt be ecstatic to know that Anna Soubry echoes almost exactly his own position on Afghanistan. Soubs is sounding more and more like an FBPE version of Edwina Currie; for the avoidance of doubt this is a bad thing.

    So do the LDs and Ed Davey to their credit

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1426223270961975305?s=20

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1425827915455942656?s=20

    A broad alliance is emerging from Mercer, Tugendhadt, Stewart, Ellwood, the LDs, Soubry to Romney, John Bolton, Nikki Haley etc all scathing about Biden's withdrawal
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    It seems that both Mr and Mrs Sturgeon's sister are on the charge.
    Eh? How on earth did you get this notion that Ms Sturgeon and her husband practise brother-sister marriage?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    It seems that both Mr and Mrs Sturgeon's sister are on the charge.
    Eh? How on earth did you get this notion that Ms Sturgeon and her husband practise brother-sister marriage?
    Unionist Psyops
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,024
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD will no doubt be ecstatic to know that Anna Soubry echoes almost exactly his own position on Afghanistan. Soubs is sounding more and more like an FBPE version of Edwina Currie; for the avoidance of doubt this is a bad thing.

    So do the LDs and Ed Davey to their credit

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1426223270961975305?s=20

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1425827915455942656?s=20

    A broad alliance is emerging from Mercer, Tugendhadt, Stewart, Ellwood, the LDs, Soubry to Romney, John Bolton, Nikki Haley etc all scathing about Biden's withdrawal
    Biden and Johnson's withdrawal (a concept that the latter is certainly unfamiliar with).
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 3,883
    Foxy said:

    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    My summer wave, so far.

    -kid with PIMS-TS in multiorgan failure
    -a teenage death
    -kids in their 20s in ICU
    -deaths of healthy unvaccinated 30 & 40 yr olds
    -clinically vulnerable vaccinated patients who thought they were protected, dying (one had just got married)


    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    ·
    1h
    -the worst ever patient journey, from angrily arguing with us in ED that they don't believe in covid, to CPAP, to ICU, to ventilation, to death, those wretched family phone calls
    -tears and panic attacks and anger (staff). Hugs too
    -PPE in a heatwave is shit

    Or as I tweeted yesterday in response to the #NewNormal astroturfing:

    Our nurses have been drafted again for redeployment to ICU to look after the unvaccinnated on ventilators. This is why #NHS #waitinglists are mushrooming. This sadly is the #NewNormal

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1426244801985384455?s=19

    Friday afternoon a rolling rota of theatre cancellations and redeployment to ICU were announced in my Trust. ICU cannot staff 10 beds because of a mix of vacancies, maternity leave* and long term sickness. We have 21 covid patients on ICU, all unvaccinated. To say Mrs Foxy and colleagues are unhappy about this is cannot be overstated. I expect a number to go off sick for mental health reasons rather than go back.

    *pregnant staff go off on Mat Leave as soon as they can. Seeing pregnant women so poorly with covid tends to do that.
    Meanwhile, the twats in the Hart Group have had their chat logs leaked.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421397013078360064.html

    Claire Craig, Michael Yeadon, Joel Smalley - from what they were writing about to each other and inside their group behind closed doors - these people have gone way further down the looney antivaxxer line than anything I'd ever imagined.

    "I think we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"
    "How do we persuade a parent who believes that their child is vulnerable (for whatever reason) is not vulnerable? How do we persuade parents that the flu shot... should be questioned when we have previously said we thought other vaccinations are safe and effective?"

    Discussing whether it's all a big plot to depopulate the Earth
    Talking about people becoming magnetic. Or about 5G.
    Genuinely expecting mass deaths from vaccination by April this year (notably the failure of that to happen doesn't seem to have slowed them all down) - they assumed that the increased gap between doses was because everyone was dying from the second dose and predicted carnage when the second doses were given out.
    Deliberately trying to play up fears about fertility to try to cut through with the young.

    Wow.

  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    I’m sure I suggested this as a great bet about 6 months ago. Didn’t back it though, as Smarkets won’t let me open an account
  • alednamalednam Posts: 155
    It's important not to confuse members of the Labour Party with those in the electorate likely to vote Labour. Certainly Labour members felt Corbyn deserved a chance at a general election, and certainly Corbyn defeated Owen Smith in 2016. But I don't think we can conclude that Labour Party members will be so anxious to give Starmer a chance.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
    TUD, we need to see the outcome before we can be sure, could be window dressing you know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
    TUD, we need to see the outcome before we can be sure, could be window dressing you know.
    Of course, they have nice curtains where you bide, Malky.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,058
    Amazing start to second half at OT and it is so much better with the crowd in.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    edited August 2021

    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.

    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.
    It has famous members as well.
    PS: It was renumbered after Edinburgh cheated and took Number 1 , Kilwinning told them to get stuffed went alone , most people favoured Kilwinning so in the end due to poverty Scottish mob had to concede and give Kilwinning Number 0 and it's rightful place.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954

    Foxy said:

    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    My summer wave, so far.

    -kid with PIMS-TS in multiorgan failure
    -a teenage death
    -kids in their 20s in ICU
    -deaths of healthy unvaccinated 30 & 40 yr olds
    -clinically vulnerable vaccinated patients who thought they were protected, dying (one had just got married)


    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    ·
    1h
    -the worst ever patient journey, from angrily arguing with us in ED that they don't believe in covid, to CPAP, to ICU, to ventilation, to death, those wretched family phone calls
    -tears and panic attacks and anger (staff). Hugs too
    -PPE in a heatwave is shit

    Or as I tweeted yesterday in response to the #NewNormal astroturfing:

    Our nurses have been drafted again for redeployment to ICU to look after the unvaccinnated on ventilators. This is why #NHS #waitinglists are mushrooming. This sadly is the #NewNormal

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1426244801985384455?s=19

    Friday afternoon a rolling rota of theatre cancellations and redeployment to ICU were announced in my Trust. ICU cannot staff 10 beds because of a mix of vacancies, maternity leave* and long term sickness. We have 21 covid patients on ICU, all unvaccinated. To say Mrs Foxy and colleagues are unhappy about this is cannot be overstated. I expect a number to go off sick for mental health reasons rather than go back.

    *pregnant staff go off on Mat Leave as soon as they can. Seeing pregnant women so poorly with covid tends to do that.
    Meanwhile, the twats in the Hart Group have had their chat logs leaked.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421397013078360064.html

    Claire Craig, Michael Yeadon, Joel Smalley - from what they were writing about to each other and inside their group behind closed doors - these people have gone way further down the looney antivaxxer line than anything I'd ever imagined.

    "I think we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"
    "How do we persuade a parent who believes that their child is vulnerable (for whatever reason) is not vulnerable? How do we persuade parents that the flu shot... should be questioned when we have previously said we thought other vaccinations are safe and effective?"

    Discussing whether it's all a big plot to depopulate the Earth
    Talking about people becoming magnetic. Or about 5G.
    Genuinely expecting mass deaths from vaccination by April this year (notably the failure of that to happen doesn't seem to have slowed them all down) - they assumed that the increased gap between doses was because everyone was dying from the second dose and predicted carnage when the second doses were given out.
    Deliberately trying to play up fears about fertility to try to cut through with the young.

    Wow.

    I thought Claire Craig was a loon, now I find she is actively malevolent
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,911
    alednam said:

    It's important not to confuse members of the Labour Party with those in the electorate likely to vote Labour. Certainly Labour members felt Corbyn deserved a chance at a general election, and certainly Corbyn defeated Owen Smith in 2016. But I don't think we can conclude that Labour Party members will be so anxious to give Starmer a chance.

    In my view, we can. I know hundreds of members...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    My summer wave, so far.

    -kid with PIMS-TS in multiorgan failure
    -a teenage death
    -kids in their 20s in ICU
    -deaths of healthy unvaccinated 30 & 40 yr olds
    -clinically vulnerable vaccinated patients who thought they were protected, dying (one had just got married)


    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    ·
    1h
    -the worst ever patient journey, from angrily arguing with us in ED that they don't believe in covid, to CPAP, to ICU, to ventilation, to death, those wretched family phone calls
    -tears and panic attacks and anger (staff). Hugs too
    -PPE in a heatwave is shit

    Or as I tweeted yesterday in response to the #NewNormal astroturfing:

    Our nurses have been drafted again for redeployment to ICU to look after the unvaccinnated on ventilators. This is why #NHS #waitinglists are mushrooming. This sadly is the #NewNormal

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1426244801985384455?s=19

    Friday afternoon a rolling rota of theatre cancellations and redeployment to ICU were announced in my Trust. ICU cannot staff 10 beds because of a mix of vacancies, maternity leave* and long term sickness. We have 21 covid patients on ICU, all unvaccinated. To say Mrs Foxy and colleagues are unhappy about this is cannot be overstated. I expect a number to go off sick for mental health reasons rather than go back.

    *pregnant staff go off on Mat Leave as soon as they can. Seeing pregnant women so poorly with covid tends to do that.
    Meanwhile, the twats in the Hart Group have had their chat logs leaked.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421397013078360064.html

    Claire Craig, Michael Yeadon, Joel Smalley - from what they were writing about to each other and inside their group behind closed doors - these people have gone way further down the looney antivaxxer line than anything I'd ever imagined.

    "I think we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"
    "How do we persuade a parent who believes that their child is vulnerable (for whatever reason) is not vulnerable? How do we persuade parents that the flu shot... should be questioned when we have previously said we thought other vaccinations are safe and effective?"

    Discussing whether it's all a big plot to depopulate the Earth
    Talking about people becoming magnetic. Or about 5G.
    Genuinely expecting mass deaths from vaccination by April this year (notably the failure of that to happen doesn't seem to have slowed them all down) - they assumed that the increased gap between doses was because everyone was dying from the second dose and predicted carnage when the second doses were given out.
    Deliberately trying to play up fears about fertility to try to cut through with the young.

    Wow.

    I thought Claire Craig was a loon, now I find she is actively malevolent
    She is a young male Doric-speaker from Aberdeen or thereabouts? How remarkable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    edited August 2021
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
    TUD, we need to see the outcome before we can be sure, could be window dressing you know.
    Of course, they have nice curtains where you bide, Malky.
    Exquisite carnyx , luckily the criminal classes tend to do their stuff in other parts of the town.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 937
    My goodness. What a horrific thread. Just endless Nats and Remoaners filling it up with bile and resentment as they howl at the moon.

    Can someone please launch a conversation thread about the right inflation target, or the latest Russian military technology, or the Ming Dynasty's administrative changes? Please, anything to save us from these two groups of zealots banging on about their obsessions.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.

    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.
    It has famous members as well.
    PS: It was renumbered after Edinburgh cheated and took Number 1 , Kilwinning told them to get stuffed went alone , most people favoured Kilwinning so in the end due to poverty Scottish mob had to concede and give Kilwinning Number 0 and it's rightful place.
    Doesn't Kilwinning also have No. 2 as well?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,796

    Incidentally talk of Death in Venice reminds me of story of the real Tadzio who was apparently well aware of the effect he had on poor old Thomas. He went on to live the disrupted life of many 20thC Poles; one bit of luck was being made POW by the Nazis rather than the Soviets.

    https://xtramagazine.com/culture/who-was-the-real-tadzio-73215

    The actor who played Tadzio has led an eventful life as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=movf4weZq30
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,796
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
    TUD, we need to see the outcome before we can be sure, could be window dressing you know.
    Of course, they have nice curtains where you bide, Malky.
    All the better for twitching.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    Aslan said:

    My goodness. What a horrific thread. Just endless Nats and Remoaners filling it up with bile and resentment as they howl at the moon.

    Can someone please launch a conversation thread about the right inflation target, or the latest Russian military technology, or the Ming Dynasty's administrative changes? Please, anything to save us from these two groups of zealots banging on about their obsessions.

    Jog on Loser your village is looking for it's idiot.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    Aslan said:

    My goodness. What a horrific thread. Just endless Nats and Remoaners filling it up with bile and resentment as they howl at the moon.

    Can someone please launch a conversation thread about the right inflation target, or the latest Russian military technology, or the Ming Dynasty's administrative changes? Please, anything to save us from these two groups of zealots banging on about their obsessions.

    Eh? We've been talking about Scottish dialects, pubs near railway stations, places to visit in Greece, Masonic Lodges chez Malky, and so on and so forth.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 937
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    What is it about Greece that makes you feel healthier, and happier, and calmer?

    Is it the three large excellent beers I have just drunk on a rooftop bar while staring at the Karyatids of the Parthenon or is it something else?

    I reckon it is something else. Partly the endless sun, partly the fact you are outdoors all day, partly the fact you get lots of exercise (swimming if you're by the sea, hiking if you're sightseeing). But also the simple yet delicious food. Fish and salad, lamb and salad, fish and more greek salad. A few chips. Fish again. Some squid. Almost no choice. Fish again! Having no choice is like a luxury in itself, another anxiety taken away

    And so one sublime day blurs into the other, and each day dies with dark Santorini wine, and the sleep is as deep as the Saronic Gulf

    Can't say because I've never been to Greece. Something to look forward to.
    I love Greece but I do find the food insanely salty. Overwhelms the flavor.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
    TUD, we need to see the outcome before we can be sure, could be window dressing you know.
    Of course, they have nice curtains where you bide, Malky.
    All the better for twitching.....
    If only I had known relatives of the Godmother visited the town , I could have been on the outlook.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    My summer wave, so far.

    -kid with PIMS-TS in multiorgan failure
    -a teenage death
    -kids in their 20s in ICU
    -deaths of healthy unvaccinated 30 & 40 yr olds
    -clinically vulnerable vaccinated patients who thought they were protected, dying (one had just got married)


    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    ·
    1h
    -the worst ever patient journey, from angrily arguing with us in ED that they don't believe in covid, to CPAP, to ICU, to ventilation, to death, those wretched family phone calls
    -tears and panic attacks and anger (staff). Hugs too
    -PPE in a heatwave is shit

    Or as I tweeted yesterday in response to the #NewNormal astroturfing:

    Our nurses have been drafted again for redeployment to ICU to look after the unvaccinnated on ventilators. This is why #NHS #waitinglists are mushrooming. This sadly is the #NewNormal

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1426244801985384455?s=19

    Friday afternoon a rolling rota of theatre cancellations and redeployment to ICU were announced in my Trust. ICU cannot staff 10 beds because of a mix of vacancies, maternity leave* and long term sickness. We have 21 covid patients on ICU, all unvaccinated. To say Mrs Foxy and colleagues are unhappy about this is cannot be overstated. I expect a number to go off sick for mental health reasons rather than go back.

    *pregnant staff go off on Mat Leave as soon as they can. Seeing pregnant women so poorly with covid tends to do that.
    Meanwhile, the twats in the Hart Group have had their chat logs leaked.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421397013078360064.html

    Claire Craig, Michael Yeadon, Joel Smalley - from what they were writing about to each other and inside their group behind closed doors - these people have gone way further down the looney antivaxxer line than anything I'd ever imagined.

    "I think we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"
    "How do we persuade a parent who believes that their child is vulnerable (for whatever reason) is not vulnerable? How do we persuade parents that the flu shot... should be questioned when we have previously said we thought other vaccinations are safe and effective?"

    Discussing whether it's all a big plot to depopulate the Earth
    Talking about people becoming magnetic. Or about 5G.
    Genuinely expecting mass deaths from vaccination by April this year (notably the failure of that to happen doesn't seem to have slowed them all down) - they assumed that the increased gap between doses was because everyone was dying from the second dose and predicted carnage when the second doses were given out.
    Deliberately trying to play up fears about fertility to try to cut through with the young.

    Wow.

    I thought Claire Craig was a loon, now I find she is actively malevolent
    She is a young male Doric-speaker from Aberdeen or thereabouts? How remarkable.
    No, she’s a large diving waterbird with a sleek black or grey head, a straight pointed bill, and short legs set far back under the body. Chiefly described so in North America.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.

    malcolmg said:



    Shocked that she committed the alleged crime in Kilwinning, hopefully not at my end of the town.

    And there was me expecting "Turnips"!

    What is Kilwinning famous for?

    Kilwinning is notable for housing the original Lodge of Freemasonry in Scotland. When the Lodges were renumbered, Kilwinning was kept as Lodge Number '0', the Mother Lodge of Scotland.
    It has famous members as well.
    PS: It was renumbered after Edinburgh cheated and took Number 1 , Kilwinning told them to get stuffed went alone , most people favoured Kilwinning so in the end due to poverty Scottish mob had to concede and give Kilwinning Number 0 and it's rightful place.
    Doesn't Kilwinning also have No. 2 as well?
    Hundreds had charters from Kilwinning so a shedload have Kilwinning in the name.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 937
    malcolmg said:

    Aslan said:

    My goodness. What a horrific thread. Just endless Nats and Remoaners filling it up with bile and resentment as they howl at the moon.

    Can someone please launch a conversation thread about the right inflation target, or the latest Russian military technology, or the Ming Dynasty's administrative changes? Please, anything to save us from these two groups of zealots banging on about their obsessions.

    Jog on Loser your village is looking for it's idiot.
    You are a fine example of the intelligence and decency of the typical Scottish nationalist!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 31,024

    Incidentally talk of Death in Venice reminds me of story of the real Tadzio who was apparently well aware of the effect he had on poor old Thomas. He went on to live the disrupted life of many 20thC Poles; one bit of luck was being made POW by the Nazis rather than the Soviets.

    https://xtramagazine.com/culture/who-was-the-real-tadzio-73215

    The actor who played Tadzio has led an eventful life as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=movf4weZq30
    He still has his bone structure I guess..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 41,058
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    H

    malcolmg said:

    DougSeal said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fishing said:

    Good, persuasive article Pip.

    My gut feeling is that the Conservatives are going to lose those 40-50 seats you mention.

    Labour really ought to have large VI leads in England at this stage in the electoral cycle, but perhaps the combined effect of the three megashocks - IndyRefs 2014-present, Brexit 2016-present and Covid19 pandemic 2019-present - have created an English immune response to Labour?

    Labour, perhaps unfairly, are widely blamed for the first (eg Johnson calling devolution a "disaster" and Tony Blair's "biggest mistake"); made utter fools of themselves during the second; and have been mute bystanders to the third.

    England has been rejected, felt hurt and sore, turned her back on the world and sulked. The Conservatives put their arms round that nation and comforted and reassured, telling her don’t mind those ungrateful Caledonians, we’ll fix them good and proper; we’ll kick out those dodgy foreigners; and we are the best in the world at fighting foreign pests. All unmitigated nonsense, but England has totally lost the plot in the last decade and the Tories have been their comfort blanket during the mental breakdown.

    But the Tory cure has been much more harmful than the three diseases of rebellious Scots, repulsive Poles and rampaging Chinese virus. The time will come, and probably quite soon, when the English are going to realise that the blanket is no longer comforting them but smothering them.

    I doubt the average English voter gives a toss about Scotland one way or the other. Maybe that should be the rationale for Scottish independence, rather than what looks like a paranoid inferiority complex. We like the Scots but in a sentimental, biscuit tin, Monarch of the Glen way. Perhaps Nicola could use this as the SNP's new slogan: England doesn't know; England doesn't care.
    Yes, I agree with that. Most English people only notice Scotland when it complains particularly loudly, or demands even more subsidies.
    Another ignoramus, go get educated dummy, we have been propping you up since the 70's.
    I don’t know why you are so angry, Malc, and I don’t need to. What I can tell, though, is that you are clearly suffering and constantly reaching out with your nastiness to get some attention. Well, you certainly have mine. You have my attention and concern and my hand is reached out to you in prayer that whatever makes you so angry ends soon. I don’t have to know your needs to ask whatever higher power you believe in to heal your damaged soul and surround you in the love you so obviously need.
    You don't half talk some mince.
    https://youtu.be/Q9uJMOvAOGs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP9BtScBQaI
    What on Earth was that !!
    NE Scotland. He's speaking the true Doric.
    There’s a Doric Arch pub in Euston I’m guessing it’s not the same thing
    No; but they both refer to the Doric element of Ancient Greece. Doric = northern populations, dialect, hence Scotland but most often NE Scotland esp Aberdeen; but also Doric = column with a very simple style of capital, hence Doric Arch that used to be in front of Euston Station

    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/nov/07/euston-arch-rail-london-demolished-1961

    Also the Doric Tavern behind Waverley Station, a fave of mine in the late 80s. Once climbed out of its (first floor) window.
    TUD, I see Nicola's sister has beaten her on who is up before the judge first.
    https://twitter.com/bridges4indy/status/1426431950894649348/photo/1

    Well they cannae say Nicola's vice-like grip on the polis resulted in a cover up.
    TUD, we need to see the outcome before we can be sure, could be window dressing you know.
    Of course, they have nice curtains where you bide, Malky.
    All the better for twitching.....
    If only I had known relatives of the Godmother visited the town , I could have been on the outlook.
    You didn't know who they were with.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,962
    edited August 2021

    alednam said:

    It's important not to confuse members of the Labour Party with those in the electorate likely to vote Labour. Certainly Labour members felt Corbyn deserved a chance at a general election, and certainly Corbyn defeated Owen Smith in 2016. But I don't think we can conclude that Labour Party members will be so anxious to give Starmer a chance.

    In my view, we can. I know hundreds of members...
    That would be considered anecdote, but anyone betting against Starmer’s survival has two questions to answer:

    1) Where is a candidate with the name recognition and potential to outshine Starmer in a hustings?

    2) Why would Labour members remove someone during the current circumstances which will leave any possible replacement with identical problems?

    So your info makes sense.

    It’s not like the Tories where the MPs can act to remove a leader the membership liked - notably Duncan Smith but arguably also Thatcher - any removal of Starmer would have to be by the party membership through a contest. And as we saw with Corbyn, even when the leader is creating a shambles, that isn’t at all easy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 11,898

    MattW said:

    OT:

    One for @NickPalmer .

    Nick, what is your current view on the UK-Australia Trade Deal?

    I thought it had gone quiet - no press coverage - then I picked up from Which that there seems to be a firm commitment to exclude hormone treated beef, and a chapter in the agreement on animal welfare, which seems to have received no coverage outside the specialist press.

    Which Link:
    https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/07/five-changes-the-uk-australia-trade-deal-could-make-to-your-food-finances-and-data-rights/
    Parliamentary Report:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9204/

    Do you have any knowledge as to where we are on this?

    Only the Australian government has published much detail - I don't have the link to hand but could dig it out on Monday if you like. Briefly, our understanding is that the British have accepted beef from feed lots (crowded low-welfare compounds) and barren cages for hens (relates to egg products since actual eggs are unlikely to be exported).

    A further problem which was not immediately clear is that although there is, as widely announced, a long transition period, a huge amount (much more than currently imported) is allowed in from day 1. I've not yet seen confirmation of the claim in Which that hormone-treated beef will be excluded. A problem relating more to human health is that the Australians use vastly more antibiotics (3-16 times as much as in Britain, depending on species), which is normally a reflection of bad conditions (the farmers accepts contamination but tries to stop effects by mass use of antibiotics) and will tend to lead to antibiotic resistance leaking into people.

    It would of course be helpful to everyone if the British government would actually publish the agreement, but I gather they are still tinkering with the details.
    This is more detail than I had seen before from June 17:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-australia-free-trade-agreement-negotiations-agreement-in-principle/uk-australia-fta-negotiations-agreement-in-principle

    As is the Commons Library Research Briefing, from June 28, linked above.

    But I have not followed in detail.

    Thanks for the comment.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 38,798
    DougSeal said:

    Foxy said:

    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    My summer wave, so far.

    -kid with PIMS-TS in multiorgan failure
    -a teenage death
    -kids in their 20s in ICU
    -deaths of healthy unvaccinated 30 & 40 yr olds
    -clinically vulnerable vaccinated patients who thought they were protected, dying (one had just got married)


    seahorse
    @seahorse4000
    ·
    1h
    -the worst ever patient journey, from angrily arguing with us in ED that they don't believe in covid, to CPAP, to ICU, to ventilation, to death, those wretched family phone calls
    -tears and panic attacks and anger (staff). Hugs too
    -PPE in a heatwave is shit

    Or as I tweeted yesterday in response to the #NewNormal astroturfing:

    Our nurses have been drafted again for redeployment to ICU to look after the unvaccinnated on ventilators. This is why #NHS #waitinglists are mushrooming. This sadly is the #NewNormal

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1426244801985384455?s=19

    Friday afternoon a rolling rota of theatre cancellations and redeployment to ICU were announced in my Trust. ICU cannot staff 10 beds because of a mix of vacancies, maternity leave* and long term sickness. We have 21 covid patients on ICU, all unvaccinated. To say Mrs Foxy and colleagues are unhappy about this is cannot be overstated. I expect a number to go off sick for mental health reasons rather than go back.

    *pregnant staff go off on Mat Leave as soon as they can. Seeing pregnant women so poorly with covid tends to do that.
    Meanwhile, the twats in the Hart Group have had their chat logs leaked.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421397013078360064.html

    Claire Craig, Michael Yeadon, Joel Smalley - from what they were writing about to each other and inside their group behind closed doors - these people have gone way further down the looney antivaxxer line than anything I'd ever imagined.

    "I think we need to seed the thought that vaccines cause covid"
    "How do we persuade a parent who believes that their child is vulnerable (for whatever reason) is not vulnerable? How do we persuade parents that the flu shot... should be questioned when we have previously said we thought other vaccinations are safe and effective?"

    Discussing whether it's all a big plot to depopulate the Earth
    Talking about people becoming magnetic. Or about 5G.
    Genuinely expecting mass deaths from vaccination by April this year (notably the failure of that to happen doesn't seem to have slowed them all down) - they assumed that the increased gap between doses was because everyone was dying from the second dose and predicted carnage when the second doses were given out.
    Deliberately trying to play up fears about fertility to try to cut through with the young.

    Wow.

    I thought Claire Craig was a loon, now I find she is actively malevolent
    I had to look her up. Her latest tweet is complaining that it will "take years to undo" the expansion of lab testing: "testing should be reserved for the sick and not carried out in laboratories".
  • HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Once Scotland and NI have gone the impetus towards independence will be taken up here in Wales for independence too.
    Nope, Wales is now the most Unionist nation in the UK.

    According to Yougov last year only 39% of Welsh voters wanted independence, compared to 49% of English voters who wanted independence.

    Polls at the same time showed 49% of NI voters wanted a United Ireland and 55% of Scots wanted independence (though now most polls show most Scots still want to stay in the UK)

    https://order-order.com/2020/08/19/wales-is-most-pro-uk-nation/.

    If the UK broke up while England would still be a G20 nation and Scotland could still rejoin the EU, Wales voted for Brexit in 2016 and out of the UK would be completely alone.

    Wales also relies even more on Westminster subsidy than Scotland does
    What an absolute nobber telling Wales their opinions from your cave in Essicks
  • My gut feeling is that the next GE will be a 2010 or 2015 repeat
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,197
    edited August 2021
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Once Scotland and NI have gone the impetus towards independence will be taken up here in Wales for independence too.
    Nope, Wales is now the most Unionist nation in the UK.

    According to Yougov last year only 39% of Welsh voters wanted independence, compared to 49% of English voters who wanted independence.

    Polls at the same time showed 49% of NI voters wanted a United Ireland and 55% of Scots wanted independence (though now most polls show most Scots still want to stay in the UK)

    https://order-order.com/2020/08/19/wales-is-most-pro-uk-nation/.

    If the UK broke up while England would still be a G20 nation and Scotland could still rejoin the EU, Wales voted for Brexit in 2016 and out of the UK would be completely alone.

    Wales also relies even more on Westminster subsidy than Scotland does
    The figures you are giving in your second sentence don't exist. They are not poll results. They're made up from differtent polls from, presumably, different times and with different questions, and that link you give gives a broken link when one tries to check.

    Thank you very much for cluttering this very pleasant Saturday thread with fictional tripe. You're welcome.
    Wrong.

    The English yougov poll and the Scottish yougov poll were just a month apart and asked the same question.

    So as I said Wales is now the most Unionist part of the UK.

    The link to the Guido site works fine.

    Scotland could swap alleged control from Westminster for control from Frankfurt and Berlin and leave the protection of the UK for the protection of the EU, Wales could not as it voted for Brexit too just like England
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,014
    Aslan said:

    malcolmg said:

    Aslan said:

    My goodness. What a horrific thread. Just endless Nats and Remoaners filling it up with bile and resentment as they howl at the moon.

    Can someone please launch a conversation thread about the right inflation target, or the latest Russian military technology, or the Ming Dynasty's administrative changes? Please, anything to save us from these two groups of zealots banging on about their obsessions.

    Jog on Loser your village is looking for it's idiot.
    You are a fine example of the intelligence and decency of the typical Scottish nationalist!
    Thick loser I see, better to be thought a fool than prove it. Well done 100% proven you are the complete fool.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,815
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Once Scotland and NI have gone the impetus towards independence will be taken up here in Wales for independence too.
    Nope, Wales is now the most Unionist nation in the UK.

    According to Yougov last year only 39% of Welsh voters wanted independence, compared to 49% of English voters who wanted independence.

    Polls at the same time showed 49% of NI voters wanted a United Ireland and 55% of Scots wanted independence (though now most polls show most Scots still want to stay in the UK)

    https://order-order.com/2020/08/19/wales-is-most-pro-uk-nation/.

    If the UK broke up while England would still be a G20 nation and Scotland could still rejoin the EU, Wales voted for Brexit in 2016 and out of the UK would be completely alone.

    Wales also relies even more on Westminster subsidy than Scotland does
    The figures you are giving in your second sentence don't exist. They are not poll results. They're made up from differtent polls from, presumably, different times and with different questions, and that link you give gives a broken link when one tries to check.

    Thank you very much for cluttering this very pleasant Saturday thread with fictional tripe. You're welcome.
    Wrong.

    The English yougov poll and the Scottish yougov poll were just a month apart and asked the same question.

    So as I said Wales is now the most Unionist part of the UK
    My apologies - I meant third sentence. But my strictures still apply.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,954
    malcolmg said:

    Aslan said:

    malcolmg said:

    Aslan said:

    My goodness. What a horrific thread. Just endless Nats and Remoaners filling it up with bile and resentment as they howl at the moon.

    Can someone please launch a conversation thread about the right inflation target, or the latest Russian military technology, or the Ming Dynasty's administrative changes? Please, anything to save us from these two groups of zealots banging on about their obsessions.

    Jog on Loser your village is looking for it's idiot.
    You are a fine example of the intelligence and decency of the typical Scottish nationalist!
    Thick loser I see, better to be thought a fool than prove it. Well done 100% proven you are the complete fool.
    We still love you Malc.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    Most people just want to get on with their lives.

    And Brexit is making it more difficult and expensive than it was previously.

    Which is why we will still be talking about it for the next decade (at least)
    My guesstimate is five decades. After all, the heid jobs banged on about it incessantly 1973-present.
    I won't see it in my lifetime and I'm mid 50s. Although I'll almost certainly be killed in a motorcycle accident in the next 5-10 years.

    The most likely long term trajectory is the 6 counties back in via a united Ireland, Scotland fast tracked in to spite England. England and Wales gradually realign into a Norway type relationship with the EU.
    Once Scotland and NI have gone the impetus towards independence will be taken up here in Wales for independence too.
    Nope, Wales is now the most Unionist nation in the UK.

    According to Yougov last year only 39% of Welsh voters wanted independence, compared to 49% of English voters who wanted independence.

    Polls at the same time showed 49% of NI voters wanted a United Ireland and 55% of Scots wanted independence (though now most polls show most Scots still want to stay in the UK)

    https://order-order.com/2020/08/19/wales-is-most-pro-uk-nation/.

    If the UK broke up while England would still be a G20 nation and Scotland could still rejoin the EU, Wales voted for Brexit in 2016 and out of the UK would be completely alone.

    Wales also relies even more on Westminster subsidy than Scotland does
    The figures you are giving in your second sentence don't exist. They are not poll results. They're made up from differtent polls from, presumably, different times and with different questions, and that link you give gives a broken link when one tries to check.

    Thank you very much for cluttering this very pleasant Saturday thread with fictional tripe. You're welcome.
    Wrong.

    The English yougov poll and the Scottish yougov poll were just a month apart and asked the same question.

    So as I said Wales is now the most Unionist part of the UK
    Yes. You go on telling people in Wales what people in Wales think. You are definitely more clued up from your cave in Essicks than they are.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,258
    felix said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Snobbery is a very British vice - but according to the author of a new book it is no longer about looking down on people for having the wrong accent or manners.

    The "new snobbery" is a form of condescension practised by university-educated "progressives" - directed at people they consider ignorant and bigoted, David Skelton argues.

    He believes it is the biggest fault line in British politics, and could lead to the Conservative Party staying in power for the foreseeable future."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58186519

    Nothing like that ever seen on here - no siree!
    We established yesterday that only university graduates are clever enough to vote Labour. Unfortunately, once you deduct graduates who happen to be Tory, Libdem, SNP, PC or Green it leaves the workers' party fishing in a rather small pond.
This discussion has been closed.