MIND THE GAP: HOW LONG WILL BORIS JOHNSON SERVE AS PRIME MINISTER? – politicalbetting.com

FrancisUrquhart said:

tlg86 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.

Yes, good call. Even he couldn't get close to it after he did it.

Actually, long jump still stands as well from 30 years ago. Do they get close?

OldKingCole said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Interesting wine debate.

Looking it up, we are one of the top 10 wine exporters in the world - or thereabouts.

Export volume is 3 or 4 times UK wine production, so clearly a lot of bulk->bottle going on.

I'd surmise that quite a lot of that is Australian, as stuff we drink from Oz gets here that way. I wonder the impact of the FTA on that?

There is a large U.K. wine brokerage trade.
I think London may even be the world’s biggest centre for such.

Mostly France > London > Rest of World.

For how much longer?

Gardenwalker said:

OldKingCole said:

Gardenwalker said:

MattW said:

Interesting wine debate.

Looking it up, we are one of the top 10 wine exporters in the world - or thereabouts.

Export volume is 3 or 4 times UK wine production, so clearly a lot of bulk->bottle going on.

I'd surmise that quite a lot of that is Australian, as stuff we drink from Oz gets here that way. I wonder the impact of the FTA on that?

There is a large U.K. wine brokerage trade.
I think London may even be the world’s biggest centre for such.

Mostly France > London > Rest of World.

For how much longer?

Thankfully protected to some extent by the government’s (belated) decision to scrap import certification.

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

That really is a must read.

Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.

Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21

I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.

Who decided whether the supreme court examines something? Do the learned judges just read the papers and interfere where they see fit, or is there some form of request process?

The rules now are that you firstly apply to the Court that has dealt with the matter for permission to appeal to the Supreme Court. That application involved a hearing at which Murray was represented by the Dean of Faculty, Roddy Dunlop QC. The application was refused. You then apply to the Supreme Court itself who can choose to hear the case if they consider it in the public interest or if it raises a matter of sufficient importance. My experience of that predates the current rules but my understanding is that this is a paper exercise with a written submission. That has also now been refused.

Refused by whom, the SC?

Yes. There will be a written decision confirming the refusal but that is normally very brief.

spudgfsh said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

tlg86 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.

Yes, good call. Even he couldn't get close to it after he did it.

Actually, long jump still stands as well from 30 years ago. Do they get close?

not really.

https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/jumps/long-jump/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&windReading=regular&page=1&bestResultsOnly=true&firstDay=1900-01-01&lastDay=2021-08-01

before the current record the previous one was Bob Beamon from 1968 (and not that much different)

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

Floater said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RobD said:

Malmesbury said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

HYUFD said:

Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....

More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.

The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.

thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.

It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg

Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.

We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.

You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.

The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand

I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.

I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU

They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.

That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)

Lets look at exports then

https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/

Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand

Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

It's so incredibly childish.

I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export

You are wrong.

On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.

Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed

MaxPB said:

That BMX gold routine from Charlotte Worthington was incredible. Max Whitlock as well.

Good return from our BMX team, two golds, a silver and a bronze.

Between them and the swimmers they've really managed make up for our rowing failure.

Carnyx said:

StuartDickson said:

Foxy said:

Carnyx said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.

Yes, parsnips too as the frost sweetens them by breaking up starches.

But does anyone eat sprouts apart from Christmas dinner?

Yepp. One of my favourite vegetables. They are especially good when fried, preferably pretty hard so they char a bit.

This is going to be like the "what poncy gits actually bother to boil chicken bones?" thread.

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

@HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

That’s about it.

Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand

I am aware yes.
They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.

Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd

a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important

Hence consumers are more likely to buy more brussels sprouts than they currently do if tariffs are removed on them than more lamb than they already do if tariffs are removed on them, as imported lamb will still be pretty expensive even without tariffs.

There is a reason chicken and poultry are now the most eaten British meats, not red meat like lamb and beef, as well as the health factors it is cheaper


https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/white-meat-red-more-popular-uk-britain-beef-chicken-turkey-lamb-pork-a7816041.html

You are absolutely barking. You did not understand a word of what I said.

Why would a New Zealander buy an expensive frozen brussel sprout when they could grow fresh cheaper ones?

To get there it will have to be frozen and because sprouts are a low cost item the overhead of transport will be a significant percentage. Lamb is an expensive item so the cost of transport is a much lower percentage of the cost, so if you can produce it cheaper you can get a competitive price even with the transport. Hence we buy NZ lamb. It obviously doesn't work for brussels because of their low value.

See my question re Kenya green beans whereas we don't get brussels from elsewhere out of season.

As New Zealand barely produces any brussels sprouts of any significant quantities, we do produce a fair amount of lamb in the UK however, though it is not our most popular meat.

Lamb is an expensive meat with or without transportation costs, hence British consumers don't buy much of it relative to say chicken anyway so they are not suddenly going to buy New Zealand lamb with every meal.

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

@HYUFD’s claim that we don’t have brussel sprouts or venison in NZ is frankly certifiable.

It’s so stupid he should be subject to some kind of voter recall in Epping-on-Brexit.

NZ does import small amounts of Colston Basset stilton. For sale in the five or six very expensive delis the population can support.

That’s about it.

Premium beer and spirits will be a different matter.

It may surprise you to know we even have lamb and sheep farms here in the UK, just not as big percentage wise as in New Zealand.

However as I have already shown brussels sprouts are not produced in great numbers in Australia certainly and as I mentioned earlier if you had checked cider and whiskey exports would also be a great opportunity for British producers for export to Australia and New Zealand

I am aware yes.
They will no doubt suffer under the industrial-scale, very efficient production of NZ lamb.

Not a single brussel sprout will ever be exported from the U.K. to NZ. Only a true nutter would think so.

Not at all and the idea that vast quantities of New Zealand lamb will be exported to the UK without travel constraints while not a single British Brussels Sprout will ever be on a Kiwi dinner plate is absurd

a) Lamb is an expensive product, brussels aren't
b) Lamb freezes well, brussels don't
c) Australia/NZ are a long long way way making both a) and b) very important

Hence consumers are more likely to buy more brussels sprouts than they currently do if tariffs are removed on them than more lamb than they already do if tariffs are removed on them, as imported lamb will still be pretty expensive even without tariffs.

There is a reason chicken and poultry are now the most eaten British meats, not red meat like lamb and beef, as well as the health factors it is cheaper


https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/white-meat-red-more-popular-uk-britain-beef-chicken-turkey-lamb-pork-a7816041.html

You are absolutely barking. You did not understand a word of what I said.

Why would a New Zealander buy an expensive frozen brussel sprout when they could grow fresh cheaper ones?

To get there it will have to be frozen and because sprouts are a low cost item the overhead of transport will be a significant percentage. Lamb is an expensive item so the cost of transport is a much lower percentage of the cost, so if you can produce it cheaper you can get a competitive price even with the transport. Hence we buy NZ lamb. It obviously doesn't work for brussels because of their low value.

See my question re Kenya green beans whereas we don't get brussels from elsewhere out of season.

As New Zealand barely produces any brussels sprouts of any significant quantities, we do produce a fair amount of lamb in the UK however, though it is not our most popular meat.

Lamb is an expensive meat with or without transportation costs, hence British consumers don't buy much of it relative to say chicken anyway so they are not suddenly going to buy New Zealand lamb with every meal.

No you either don't read or don't understand what is typed so I am stopping. It is pointless.

spudgfsh said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

It's too early to tell at the moment. one of the swimmers might have a big shout but we still have the velodrome and most of the athletics to come.

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

Colleagues, this is bordering on bullying. Apart from the fact that HYUFD is standing up for himself, albeit with increasing wild and insupportable statements.

But, car manufacture stopped in Australasia because the Japanese were doing it better and cheaper. And shipping costs from Japan are lower.

The UK is the 6th biggest car exporter to Australia already after Japan, Thailand, South Korea, Germany and the US
https://www.caradvice.com.au/667954/passports-please-where-do-australias-cars-come-from/

And the tariffs are? Secondly, why were we behind another EU member (when the figures were compiled).

Malmesbury said:

ping said:

@DavidL

The Craig Murray trial seems bonkers to me. As he said, Kafkaesque.

The really fun bit is the suggested abolition of Juries for rape trials.

When that doesn't achieve the aim, I presume the next idea up is the reversal of the presumption of innocence. Some have already demanded that.

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

Floater said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RobD said:

Malmesbury said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

HYUFD said:

Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....

More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.

The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.

thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.

It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg

Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.

We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.

You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.

The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand

I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.

I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU

They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.

That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)

Lets look at exports then

https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/

Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand

Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

It's so incredibly childish.

I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export

You are wrong.

On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.

Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed

There's a massive difference between annoying me by holding political views I dislike, or worse, by coming up with good arguments for political views that I dislike - as several of the right-wing posters on here manage - and annoying me by failing to observe a basic principle of public debate - not to lie about the facts.

The first is the foundation of a healthy democracy and the second will be the death of it.

And on a personal level it is a sign of being a weak-minded coward not to be willing to admit to mistakes. You're pathetic.

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

Floater said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RobD said:

Malmesbury said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

HYUFD said:

Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....

More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.

The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.

thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.

It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg

Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.

We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.

You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.

The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand

I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.

I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU

They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.

That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)

Lets look at exports then

https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/

Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand

Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

It's so incredibly childish.

I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export

You are wrong.

On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.

Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed

There's a massive difference between annoying me by holding political views I dislike, or worse, by coming up with good arguments for political views that I dislike - as several of the right-wing posters on here manage - and annoying me by failing to observe a basic principle of public debate - not to lie about the facts.

The first is the foundation of a healthy democracy and the second will be the death of it.

And on a personal level it is a sign of being a weak-minded coward not to be willing to admit to mistakes. You're pathetic.

Carnyx said:

MattW said:

Carnyx said:

StuartDickson said:

Foxy said:

Carnyx said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

There is actually a notion that sprouts taste better after the first frosts. I am not sure if this is (a) true (b) special pleading which may or may not be true and /or (c) applicable only to the cultivars grown in the UK.

Yes, parsnips too as the frost sweetens them by breaking up starches.

But does anyone eat sprouts apart from Christmas dinner?

Yepp. One of my favourite vegetables. They are especially good when fried, preferably pretty hard so they char a bit.

This is going to be like the "what poncy gits actually bother to boil chicken bones?" thread.

Send the man some pickled herring.

Did you ever tell me how you liked it, BTW? I don't recall that you did. Was it good?

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

DavidL said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:

An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

That really is a must read.

Fourth the idea is bounced around and around that other journalists also ‘leaked’ the names of witnesses but went unpunished. Murray and others consistently point to Dani Garavelli as one of these citing a Panelbase poll. What’s less often noted is that Craig Murray wrote and paid for the question to be added to the poll. In other cases journalists or other individuals may have inadvertently released information and when warned then instantly apologised and deleted such material. Not so the Ambassador who when warned pressed on. There is quite a difference.

Peatworrier got a lot of pelters for this tweet but I think it’s spot on. Murray’s actually got what he wanted, attention and Assangesque martyrdom for the cause, so a non custodial sentence might have been a better choice.

https://twitter.com/peatworrier/status/1420845010900197379?s=21

I read Craig Murray's pieces on the trial. They did not allow me to identify any of the complainers. Why not? Because I did not have the other parts of the jigsaw or other information which would allow me to determine the significance of what he reported. This, to me, is the fundamental problem with jigsaw identification. If it is to be determined by the Court with the benefit of hindsight and with a lot of other information that is not even in the public domain how do you anticipate that you may be offending? The answer is that you are extremely cautious and ambiguities, anomalies or just plain lies of witnesses in such cases are simply not reported because of the chilling effect of a potential jigsaw identification.

The allegation in this case is that a number of women who were connected to the SNP in various ways along with some civil servants very close to the current First Minister got together and conspired to produce sufficient evidence that Salmond was prosecuted in the High Court. I must emphasise that I have no idea whether such an allegation is true or not but it is a very serious allegation. Where it is demonstrated that people claim to have been sexually molested at a dinner which there is no record of them even being at certain issues arise. Have they simply made a mistake as to the date or the occasion (the most likely explanation)? Have they made it up (possible, but much less common)? Have they contrived with others to create a case that damns the person alleged to be responsible (far fetched but not impossible)?

The problem is that Murray was convinced that the last was at least a factor in this trial. He tried to show that but it is impossible to do without giving some context to the allegation. It is that context that forms the basis of the jigsaw identification.

I remain appalled that the Supreme Court has declined to look at this. There were obvious flaws in the Court's judgment (for example, he was found guilty of something not explicitly in the petition). It is a considerable extension of the s4 with uncertain boundaries and in my view it is incompatible with Article 10 of ECHR. Definitive guidance from the Supreme Court would have been helpful in clarifying the rules and the boundaries. They may have upheld the conviction, possibly on more limited grounds. But they really should have considered it.

Who decided whether the supreme court examines something? Do the learned judges just read the papers and interfere where they see fit, or is there some form of request process?

The rules now are that you firstly apply to the Court that has dealt with the matter for permission to appeal to the Supreme Court. That application involved a hearing at which Murray was represented by the Dean of Faculty, Roddy Dunlop QC. The application was refused. You then apply to the Supreme Court itself who can choose to hear the case if they consider it in the public interest or if it raises a matter of sufficient importance. My experience of that predates the current rules but my understanding is that this is a paper exercise with a written submission. That has also now been refused.

Refused by whom, the SC?

Yes. There will be a written decision confirming the refusal but that is normally very brief.

Is that an end to it then?
Apart from the 'Lawyerly Lizard People are all in it together and just like the SNP are Unionists' theories of course.

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.

I'd like to see him win. BF have put him in now @ 55 which looks high to me.

tlg86 said:

williamglenn said:

It’s been reported that Belarusian athlete Kryscina Tsimanouskaya, who publicly criticized the regime and sports officials, is being sent from Tokyo back to Belarus. Apparently, representatives of the Belarusian national team took her to the airport. It looks like kidnapping

https://twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1421781150868066309

Belarus needs the South Africa treatment.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.

I'd like to see him win. BF have put him in now @ 55 which looks high to me.

Max 55 for SPotY does sound high but even if he is nominated in a crowded year, it is hard to see him winning. Max got only 4 per cent of the vote in 2016 (Rio Olympics; Andy Murray won).

kinabalu said:

Gardenwalker said:

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

Cars being shipped from here to the very furthest opposite point of the planet - this surely makes no sense when you take a step back and really consider it.

Au contraire.

They require a lot of capital infrastructure to manufacture - so only some places can make them.

And they are expensive - so shipping is a v small part of the overall cost.

They’re actually the perfect thing to ship to the opposite point of the planet.

Unlike, say, sprouts.

Financially, ok, for now, but aren't we moving towards a high tech, clean, digital future whereby all of this hauling serious physical matter from one part of the globe to another ceases to be the norm?

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.

I'd like to see him win. BF have put him in now @ 55 which looks high to me.

Lol, not such a good bet by me on this occasion! He’s certain to be nominated so I think anything over 25-1 is value.

I think it’s all going to come down to the Kennys.

kinabalu said:

Gardenwalker said:

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

Cars being shipped from here to the very furthest opposite point of the planet - this surely makes no sense when you take a step back and really consider it.

Au contraire.

They require a lot of capital infrastructure to manufacture - so only some places can make them.

And they are expensive - so shipping is a v small part of the overall cost.

They’re actually the perfect thing to ship to the opposite point of the planet.

Unlike, say, sprouts.

Financially, ok, for now, but aren't we moving towards a high tech, clean, digital future whereby all of this hauling serious physical matter from one part of the globe to another ceases to be the norm?

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.

I'd like to see him win. BF have put him in now @ 55 which looks high to me.

Lol, not such a good bet by me on this occasion! He’s certain to be nominated so I think anything over 25-1 is value.

I think it’s all going to come down to the Kennys.

40s with bookie is ok. The exchange is always higher on long shots.

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

Floater said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RobD said:

Malmesbury said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

HYUFD said:

Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....

More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.

The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.

thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.

It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg

Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.

We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.

You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.

The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand

I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.

I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU

They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.

That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)

Lets look at exports then

https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/

Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand

Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

It's so incredibly childish.

I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export

You are wrong.

On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.

Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed

There's a massive difference between annoying me by holding political views I dislike, or worse, by coming up with good arguments for political views that I dislike - as several of the right-wing posters on here manage - and annoying me by failing to observe a basic principle of public debate - not to lie about the facts.

The first is the foundation of a healthy democracy and the second will be the death of it.

And on a personal level it is a sign of being a weak-minded coward not to be willing to admit to mistakes. You're pathetic.

There was no lie, as your own link showed the UK is a top 10 brussel sprouts exporter unlike Australia. You have also refused to concede that.

I of course could not care less what you think of me

DecrepiterJohnL said:

tlg86 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.

I'd like to see him win. BF have put him in now @ 55 which looks high to me.

Max 55 for SPotY does sound high but even if he is nominated in a crowded year, it is hard to see him winning. Max got only 4 per cent of the vote in 2016 (Rio Olympics; Andy Murray won).

True, but in 2016 he did beat the Kennys and Peaty and none of those who beat him will be in the mix this time.

Lewis Hamilton is the joker in the pack in my opinion.

imo (not that I have a good record so take this with a pinch of NZ salt) SPotY is not about sport. It is just another reality show.

Who will be nominated given the BBC has boxes to tick across sports, sexes and don't forget the paralympics?
Is there a bloc vote?
Is there a split vote?
Does your wife want to mother him?
Does your daughter want to boff him?

HYUFD said:

kinabalu said:

Gardenwalker said:

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

Cars being shipped from here to the very furthest opposite point of the planet - this surely makes no sense when you take a step back and really consider it.

Au contraire.

They require a lot of capital infrastructure to manufacture - so only some places can make them.

And they are expensive - so shipping is a v small part of the overall cost.

They’re actually the perfect thing to ship to the opposite point of the planet.

Unlike, say, sprouts.

Financially, ok, for now, but aren't we moving towards a high tech, clean, digital future whereby all of this hauling serious physical matter from one part of the globe to another ceases to be the norm?

We are also supposedly meant to be drastically cutting our red meat intake too to improve our health and reduce the need for deforestation and methane emissions from cattle.

Which would also mean a decline in future demand for Australian beef and NZ lamb

HYUFD said:

noneoftheabove said:

HYUFD said:

kinabalu said:

Gardenwalker said:

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

Cars being shipped from here to the very furthest opposite point of the planet - this surely makes no sense when you take a step back and really consider it.

Au contraire.

They require a lot of capital infrastructure to manufacture - so only some places can make them.

And they are expensive - so shipping is a v small part of the overall cost.

They’re actually the perfect thing to ship to the opposite point of the planet.

Unlike, say, sprouts.

Financially, ok, for now, but aren't we moving towards a high tech, clean, digital future whereby all of this hauling serious physical matter from one part of the globe to another ceases to be the norm?

We are also supposedly meant to be drastically cutting our red meat intake too to improve our health and reduce the need for deforestation and methane emissions from cattle.

Which would also mean a decline in future demand for Australian beef and NZ lamb

You will be losing the Tories the anti-woke vote with such heresy!

I am not saying you can never have a steak or roast lamb again, just cut the amount a bit and eat more chicken and fish and vegetables instead

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

Floater said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RobD said:

Malmesbury said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

HYUFD said:

Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....

More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.

The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.

thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.

It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg

Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.

We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.

You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.

The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand

I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.

I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU

They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.

That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)

Lets look at exports then

https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/

Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand

Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

It's so incredibly childish.

I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export

You are wrong.

On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.

Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed

There's a massive difference between annoying me by holding political views I dislike, or worse, by coming up with good arguments for political views that I dislike - as several of the right-wing posters on here manage - and annoying me by failing to observe a basic principle of public debate - not to lie about the facts.

The first is the foundation of a healthy democracy and the second will be the death of it.

And on a personal level it is a sign of being a weak-minded coward not to be willing to admit to mistakes. You're pathetic.

There was no lie, as your own link showed the UK is a top 10 brussel sprouts exporter unlike Australia. You have also refused to concede that.

I of course could not care less what you think of me

It wasn't my link. I did not dispute the fact of British exports, so I have nothing to concede. You are in denial of Australian exports of Brussels Sprouts.

dixiedean said:

This high jump is quite a contest.

HYUFD said:

noneoftheabove said:

HYUFD said:

noneoftheabove said:

HYUFD said:

kinabalu said:

Gardenwalker said:

kinabalu said:

HYUFD said:

Gardenwalker said:

Apart from HYUFD being utterly wrong, he also misses the point.

The U.K. is (was?) a global services super-power, second only to the US. With the notable exception of whisky and salmon, we are agricultural weaklings.

Any trade deal should be examined for how well it facilitates our services trade. NZ (nor Australia) does not want our frost-damaged brassica.

As I mentioned earlier (and you ignored) Australia and New Zealand also have not a single car factory or assembly line left now, unlike us.

So there are plenty of opportunities to expand our car exports there too, not just our services (and brussels sprouts) exports

Cars being shipped from here to the very furthest opposite point of the planet - this surely makes no sense when you take a step back and really consider it.

Au contraire.

They require a lot of capital infrastructure to manufacture - so only some places can make them.

And they are expensive - so shipping is a v small part of the overall cost.

They’re actually the perfect thing to ship to the opposite point of the planet.

Unlike, say, sprouts.

Financially, ok, for now, but aren't we moving towards a high tech, clean, digital future whereby all of this hauling serious physical matter from one part of the globe to another ceases to be the norm?

We are also supposedly meant to be drastically cutting our red meat intake too to improve our health and reduce the need for deforestation and methane emissions from cattle.

Which would also mean a decline in future demand for Australian beef and NZ lamb

You will be losing the Tories the anti-woke vote with such heresy!

I am not saying you can never have a steak or roast lamb again, just cut the amount a bit and eat more chicken and fish and vegetables instead

And the anti-wokers are not saying they will never vote Tory again, just that they will be forced to often vote for Reclaim or Reform.

They might prefer full fat steak and beefburgers with Farage in midterm but come general election time and the choice is roast beef alternated with roast chicken and fish with Boris or nutroast with Starmer they will come home

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

An alternative view on the Craig Murray case:

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/07/31/on-forms-of-journalism/

Is this true?

Now Craig Murray is claiming that: “The Salmond trial was a vindication of the jury system. I did not get a jury. Which is why Dorrian and Sturgeon are planning to abolish juries in sex crime trials, in the new parliamentary session.”

It’s really really not – and memo to self – everything in the entire universe isn’t about you. It’s about, in this case the absolutely appalling conviction rates for rape and sexual assault.

I’m sorry, but this is disgraceful. If juries aren’t appropriate for one form of crime they should be scrapped completely.

It is a review at the moment as far as I understand.

https://news.sky.com/story/rape-victims-retraumatised-by-criminal-justice-system-senior-judge-says-12252521

I know there has been talk and action of abolishing juries for complex fraud/financial crimes in England & Wales but the House of Lords stepped in.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39877171

But it does rear its head every so often.

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

Malmesbury said:

ping said:

@DavidL

The Craig Murray trial seems bonkers to me. As he said, Kafkaesque.

The really fun bit is the suggested abolition of Juries for rape trials.

When that doesn't achieve the aim, I presume the next idea up is the reversal of the presumption of innocence. Some have already demanded that.

We already have a quite absurd situation in Scotland where it is not possible to lead any evidence that might relate to the sexual history of the complainer with very limited exceptions. Evidence that the complainer consented to sex on other occasions before or after the alleged offence is "collateral" and inadmissible. In contrast the Crown is able to lodge a docquet to the Indictment giving notice that evidence will be led that the accused behaved in a similar way to what is alleged in the instant case, even if he was acquitted on the previous occasion. This is apparently not collateral but helpful to the Jury in their determination. If there is a rational explanation of the apparent incompatibility of these 2 approaches I have yet to hear it.

The statutory provisions relating to this were introduced after a truly idiotic counsel waved the complainer's flimsy knickers around in from of the Jury asking whether someone who was wearing something like this was really not up for sex. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour and inexcusable. The problem now is that the Courts have extended these rules to the point that the role of the Jury is being undermined. They are being asked to make a decision in the absence of relevant information of a type which we would use to determine the likelihood of anything else.

This can be very unfair on the accused. The fact that a person allegedly raped consented to sex a couple of days later absolutely does not mean that they were not raped 2 days previously but for a Jury trying to determine the truth or otherwise of the allegation it is hardly irrelevant.

It can also be extremely unfair on the complainer. Juries pick up on the fact that they are not being given the whole picture and don't like it. The accused gets far more of the benefit of the doubt than he is entitled to as a result. And they do not convict even when they probably should.

And so it goes.

The interesting thing, according to some people doing legal research, is that actually looking at the convictions rates and the causes of them is considered dangerous.

As in, if you publish something that can be Daily Mailed to make it look extreme in either direction, you are looking at fates ranging from loosing your PhD to being un-employable.

So people are shying away from studying this....

tlg86 said:

dixiedean said:

This high jump is quite a contest.

Including Mitchell Starc’s younger brother!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Starc

DecrepiterJohnL said:

tlg86 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

kinabalu said:

tlg86 said:

kinabalu said:

Can't find Whitlock even listed in the Spoty market.

I got £3 on him @ 40-1 on Sky Bet.

I'd like to see him win. BF have put him in now @ 55 which looks high to me.

Max 55 for SPotY does sound high but even if he is nominated in a crowded year, it is hard to see him winning. Max got only 4 per cent of the vote in 2016 (Rio Olympics; Andy Murray won).

True, but in 2016 he did beat the Kennys and Peaty and none of those who beat him will be in the mix this time.

Lewis Hamilton is the joker in the pack in my opinion.

imo (not that I have a good record so take this with a pinch of NZ salt) SPotY is not about sport. It is just another reality show.

Who will be nominated given the BBC has boxes to tick across sports, sexes and don't forget the paralympics?
Is there a bloc vote?
Is there a split vote?
Does your wife want to mother him?
Does your daughter want to boff him?

theProle said:

Malmesbury said:

DavidL said:

Malmesbury said:

ping said:

@DavidL

The Craig Murray trial seems bonkers to me. As he said, Kafkaesque.

The really fun bit is the suggested abolition of Juries for rape trials.

When that doesn't achieve the aim, I presume the next idea up is the reversal of the presumption of innocence. Some have already demanded that.

We already have a quite absurd situation in Scotland where it is not possible to lead any evidence that might relate to the sexual history of the complainer with very limited exceptions. Evidence that the complainer consented to sex on other occasions before or after the alleged offence is "collateral" and inadmissible. In contrast the Crown is able to lodge a docquet to the Indictment giving notice that evidence will be led that the accused behaved in a similar way to what is alleged in the instant case, even if he was acquitted on the previous occasion. This is apparently not collateral but helpful to the Jury in their determination. If there is a rational explanation of the apparent incompatibility of these 2 approaches I have yet to hear it.

The statutory provisions relating to this were introduced after a truly idiotic counsel waved the complainer's flimsy knickers around in from of the Jury asking whether someone who was wearing something like this was really not up for sex. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour and inexcusable. The problem now is that the Courts have extended these rules to the point that the role of the Jury is being undermined. They are being asked to make a decision in the absence of relevant information of a type which we would use to determine the likelihood of anything else.

This can be very unfair on the accused. The fact that a person allegedly raped consented to sex a couple of days later absolutely does not mean that they were not raped 2 days previously but for a Jury trying to determine the truth or otherwise of the allegation it is hardly irrelevant.

It can also be extremely unfair on the complainer. Juries pick up on the fact that they are not being given the whole picture and don't like it. The accused gets far more of the benefit of the doubt than he is entitled to as a result. And they do not convict even when they probably should.

And so it goes.

The interesting thing, according to some people doing legal research, is that actually looking at the convictions rates and the causes of them is considered dangerous.

As in, if you publish something that can be Daily Mailed to make it look extreme in either direction, you are looking at fates ranging from loosing your PhD to being un-employable.

So people are shying away from studying this....

I genuinely don't understand what people think they are going to achieve by making changes in this area of law.
By their very nature, many rape cases are unprovable. There are usually no witnesses. The only point disputed is often if the sex which everyone agrees occurred was consentual or not - and without witnesses that's basically a "he says/she says" problem.

Yes, this does mean that almost nobody gets convicted of these sorts of rapes - but unfortunately the only alternative is to lower the burden of proof and risk lots of miscarriages of justice.

People blaming the CPS for either a) not taking these sorts of cases to court, or b) losing most of them, need to be realistic - this isn't like prosecuting drink drivers or burglars caught carrying bags of stolen goods marked "swag", and so charge and conviction rates are always going to be low.

I suspect that a good deal of this is driven by the old fashioned "all men are rapists" school of feminism, but they shouldn't get to demolish the general principle of English law that "better ten guilty men escape than one innocent man suffer".

HYUFD said:

Nigelb said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

LostPassword said:

HYUFD said:

Floater said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

Northern_Al said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

OldKingCole said:

HYUFD said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

RobD said:

Malmesbury said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

HYUFD said:

Liz Truss says the UK is on the verge of a trade deal with New Zealand

https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1421744617020608513?s=20

Oh, thank God for that!...We are all saved.....

More seriously, it is another step towards being accepted into the CPTPP.

Which will really upset some people, for a fairly obvious reason.

The only thing outstanding is the small matter of diverting all our trade through the Pitcairns.

thankfully we should be able to purchase cabbages from Christmas Island, potatoes from Pitcairn Island, asperagus from Australia, tomatoes from Tahiti, (anymore alliterative veg?), once our farming industry goes to the wall.

It won't go to the wall, there will be great demand in Australia and New Zealand for British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg

Evidence? Seem to recall more than adequate beef when I've been to Aussie; indeed they export it to SE Asia and Japan. New Zealand, as I recall, has excellent, and excellent supplies of milk. Can't imagine that our fruit can compete with theirs, either.
What you haven't mentioned is that the Aussies were quite keen to replace the sales of wine to China that they've recently lost.

We also produce our own beef and lamb it may surprise you to know and there are excellent English sparkling wines as well now but no reason consumers both here and in Australia and New Zealand cannot have more choice and removal of tariffs, unless you are anti free trade.

Not quite, my West Essex friend. You claimed that Aussies and Kiwis would be falling over themselves to buy, and I quote, 'British chicken and beef and milk and fruit and veg'.
Which I doubted, and sought evidence from you..

I have no problem with the concept of Free Trade, although it is not necessarily the answer to all problems and does create some.
For example an increase in the availability, and decrease in the price, of Aussie sparkling wine might well have a negative effect on our own local industry.

You are also forgetting it is not all one way traffic, our exports to Australia will also be cheaper.

Whisky, Brussels Sprouts, venison, cider etc all relatively rare in Australia and New Zealand and ripe for export from the UK to them.

Surely Australia and New Zealand will get their Brussels Sprouts from the EU, not from us? The clue's in the name.

The EU does not have a trade deal with Australia and New Zealand yet, they do with us now, so our Brussels Sprouts will be cheaper.

There are huge opportunities for British Brussels Sprout farmers now in Australia and New Zealand

I have liked that because I haven't laughed so much for ages.

Will these be fresh or frozen? Traditionally a Christmas veg which will get there after Christmas. Even we don't eat them from frozen out of season. If they are interested why doesn't New Zealand grow them themselves?

You are planning to export a bulky cheap vegetable half way around the world that they can grow themselves if they wanted to.

There must be so many other opportunities you could have picked that are better.

I would have thought out of all British food and drink products Brussels Sprouts are amongst the least likely to be home produced or grown in Australia and New Zealand, thus it will have amongst the highest demand for British exporters of it to there.

Especially as we now have a trade deal with them unlike the EU

They grow the things in profusion in Australia, as 30 seconds on this thing called Google shows.

https://www.abc.net.au/everyday/how-to-make-brussels-sprouts-taste-delicious/12299690

And when the cost of carbon tax is added, forget exporting to Oz.

That is a recipe for Brussels Sprouts, not a link to vast numbers of Brussels Sprouts farmers in Australia. Brussels Sprouts are one of the least grown vegetables in Australia, in fact not even in the top 15 Australian vegetable crops
https://ausveg.com.au/resources/economics-statistics/australian-vegetable-production-statistics/

EU Brussels Sprout exporters of course would have to deal with high tariffs, unlike the UK, as well as a carbon tax (though of course a carbon tax would equally apply to Australian imports here in time)

Lets look at exports then

https://www.worldstopexports.com/top-brussels-sprouts-exports-by-country/

Yes, we are a top 10 Brussels sprouts exporter unlike Australia and New Zealand

Australia exports more Brussels Sprouts per capita than we do. You can never simply admit that you were mistaken?

It's so incredibly childish.

I was not mistaken, we export more Brussels Sprouts than Australia and New Zealand do.

If you were talking carrots you might have had a point, there Australia is a top 10 exporter unlike us

https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/carrot/export

You are wrong.

On its own that's fine. Life is a series of mistakes. As someone said on here a day or two ago, we all make them.

What is contemptible is that you refuse ever to admit to error. It is impossible to have any sort of public debate if someone will not admit to error when confronted with the facts.

You are everything that is wrong with politics in this country, and democracies more generally.

Well if I continue to annoy left liberals like you all to the good, I will carry on with gusto! I would be more concerned if I wasn't.

I was also not wrong, the UK is a top 10 brussels sprout exporter unlike Australia as even your own link confirmed

There's a massive difference between annoying me by holding political views I dislike, or worse, by coming up with good arguments for political views that I dislike - as several of the right-wing posters on here manage - and annoying me by failing to observe a basic principle of public debate - not to lie about the facts.

The first is the foundation of a healthy democracy and the second will be the death of it.

And on a personal level it is a sign of being a weak-minded coward not to be willing to admit to mistakes. You're pathetic.

There was no lie, as your own link showed the UK is a top 10 brussel sprouts exporter unlike Australia. You have also refused to concede that.

I of course could not care less what you think of me

It wasn't my link. I did not dispute the fact of British exports, so I have nothing to concede. You are in denial of Australian exports of Brussels Sprouts.

In his own words, HYUFD is talking absolute carrots today.

I posted earlier I was not in denial of Australian exports of carrots, I accept Australia leads us in the world carrot trade

FrancisUrquhart said:

That triple jump WR wad weird, it is like she got it all wrong and wasn't trying.

tlg86 said:

There you go @FrancisUrquhart - WR in the women’s triple jump.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Boris is in the ConHome relegation zone.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2021/08/from-self-isolation-to-score-annihilation-johnson-drops-36-points-in-our-cabinet-league-table.html

JosiasJessop said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sandpit said:

spudgfsh said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

tlg86 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Its interesting that in nearly every event in athletics, the WR now is much better than 20-30 years ago (if we exclude the couple of female events where one was juiced of their tits and the other was errrh a man)...but high jump, todays competitors in both men and women still can't get even get near the WR from 30+ years ago.

Jonathan Edwards still holds the triple jump record.

Yes, good call. Even he couldn't get close to it after he did it.

Actually, long jump still stands as well from 30 years ago. Do they get close?

not really.

https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/jumps/long-jump/outdoor/men/senior?regionType=world&windReading=regular&page=1&bestResultsOnly=true&firstDay=1900-01-01&lastDay=2021-08-01

before the current record the previous one was Bob Beamon from 1968 (and not that much different)

The long jump is one of those wierd records. Beamon jumped out of the pit in 1968, Powell bettered it in 1995 with a few competitors, and no-one has been near it since.

Should we be suspicious of this?

Here's an idea: shoes.

You'd expect technology to move on, and for things like shoes to improve and help with every step. But what if the modern shoes are actually fairly poor for these sorts of events, as opposed to things like running or football, and lead to slightly more injuries?

Probably way off-base ...

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Sandpit said:

Raining in Hungary. Could be an interesting first lap.

Do they get to change to wets if its raining? Could be good news for Verstappen.

They can start on wets if they wish. If they starts on drys, it has to be the specific tyre they ran in Q2.

ClippP said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Boris is in the ConHome relegation zone.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2021/08/from-self-isolation-to-score-annihilation-johnson-drops-36-points-in-our-cabinet-league-table.html

Well, Johnson is not quite in the Gavin Williamson class, but very nearly. If he can go as low as this in ultra-Conservative Con Home polls, he cannot remain in post very much longer.

Williamson is kept in place by Johnson's having the final say. Johnson stays, only because the Tory MPs have no backbone. If they did, this chancer would be gone tomorrow.

And poor old HY would be looking for his next idol to worship.