Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
If the vaccines are shown to be increasingly less effective than billed then anti-vax is going to become a popular position.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
I'm sure that if you put up the disease and death profiles and graphics for influenza pre-covid, they would in your terms, look alarming, and would argue for compulsory vaccination of all age groups every year.
And yet they weren't. And very few people did argue that way.
I wonder why that is.
You sure ‘very few people’ argued that way? That’s not my recollection of it. Quite the reverse, in fact - it was argued we should be vaccinating against seasonal flu much more widely than we were.
And yet even the four worst flu seasons of the last 100 years have a far lower combined mortality figure than Covid..which would rather invalidate your point anyway.
Yes well now we are coming up against died with covid versus died of covid right?
I mean, if you are stopping people from hugging dying relatives, racking up untold billions in debt and letting thousands of cancers go undiagnosed, it better not be for nothing, right?
Covid has to be serious, it absolutely has to be, for you and every vaxxer out there, If it isn't you have been the victim of the most gigantic con-job in history and are the greatest booby going.
And for someone as self regarding as you, that would be impossible to countenance.
And in one sense, that's what vax passports are. A validation of your choices. A snack for an obedient puppy.
Another barely coherent, abusive and dishonest rant. Notable for not addressing a single point I had raised, which I note have undermined every attempt at an actual argument you had made which is why you seem to keep shifting the goalposts.
Are you actually just trolling us, pretending to be an anti-vaxxer so they all look completely insane and mentally deficient?
Because if you genuinely believe what you’re posting, you need help, and I mean that.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.
Not according to the Doctor (I forgot her name) who approved Oxford / AZ. And Germany have passed us with vaccinations.
Passing was never the issue, nor how many in a day etc. It was how quickly everyone was able to rollout jabs during/ahead of fresh waves. Israel stalled out but that's secondary to how vital it was they got most people they could done early on.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
It's interesting that Italy may end up with the highest vaccination rate among the major EU countries. I'd have thought they would be at the lower end. Knowing a lot of Italians they all seemed pretty sceptical about vaccines in January.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
We don't have 67 million adults. How the fuck would that work with a population of 68 million ?!
He's become incoherent trying to defend a ridiculous point he made earlier. We all do it, better to just admit the earlier error and move on rather than keep digging.
1. I have already admitted the error 2. You wound me up the wrong way at the wrong moment 3. Better that I snarl on here and then laugh about it with an apology (sorry) than other things I could do
According to the header at the top of that page, from today they will use mid 2020 population estimates insted of mid 2019 population estimates, for calculating the %
The numbers at the moment:
46,388,744 first doses which equates to 88.1% of all over 18s implying a population of 52,654,647 people over the age of 18 in the UK.
Now some have speculated with good reason, that many EU nationals who where formally living and working in the UK at the start of the pandemic, have left since then, partly as their jobs disappeared in the pandemic, partly because they wanted to be near there family's at a time of stress, and partly because of BREXIT. this may be overstated, but there are probably more who have left than arrived, we don't know haw many but will find out soon.
If its 2 million, which is probably far to high, but I'll do the calculation:
Then Population of 50,654,647 and 46,388,744 first jabs equates to 91.6% vaccinated adults.
if its 1,111,599 people than:
Then population of 51,543,049 and 46,388,744 first jabs equates to 90.00% vaccinated adults.
Even if its just half a million people then that will push us to 90% ish
Could be a lot less then half a million,
Anybody what to speculation as to what the new population estimate will be?
I'm going to guess just under a million, (based on absolutely nothing)
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
There's is slowing down, but only really in Eastern Germany. Western Germany - Bremen, the Saarland, etc., is in the mid-80s as percentage of adults with at least one jab, and will probaby reach the same levels as the UK.
While in the East - Saxony, Thuringia, etc. - they're only in the high 50s of adults with at least one jab.
One thing they have done that I believe will be shown to be absolutely correct: they've been mixing and matching products. Merkel, for example, had Astra-Zeneca followed by Moderna, and I think the mix-and-match strategy is going to result in meaningfully stronger immune responses.
As an aside: I think Germany will still make it to 82-83% of adults at a country-wide level. Simply, the East is only about 20% of the population, so even if they get stuck at 65% of adults, it doesn't pull overall numbers down that much.
It’s not just the east, and their first doses are now below the levels ours were a month ago.
Well that's shit news. The longer this goes on, the less secure vaccination looks to being the "Covid is over, back to normal" solution that people keep insisting it is.
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
Bugger.
Except that is ignoring T-cells. Immunity to a number of diseases does not require antibodies at high levels in your blood stream - it relies on your body responding to infection by making antibodies...
I see the use of the phrase "the yellow peril" is enough to start a swooning frenzy now
Apparently it is an "extremely offensive racist term"
It might be but it's been used toward and even by LDs for some time and it's not so obviously offensive as to render its use in another context as so unreasonable.
I feel like the only people who would object are those who pretend purdah was inappropriate so we had to move to pre election period.
He's become incoherent trying to defend a ridiculous point he made earlier. We all do it, better to just admit the earlier error and move on rather than keep digging.
Taking the ridiculous point to the extreme if a country vaccinated its entire population tomorrow that would be best as they'd have the highest numbers, that the entire population had been unprotected for getting on for 8 months and had incurred many avoidable infections and deaths would be irrelevant to this measure.
It's just daft, a moments thought is all it takes to see why.
I believe Robert is in the process of changing from Vanilla to a new commenting system that requires you to show your vaccine QR code before being able to post.
As long as you are not required to show a Radiohead tattoo
Much worse than that, when you visit PB the site will automatically play a Radiohead song in the background for as long as you are on the site.
Can I just say that PB without TSE is like eating pizza without the pineapple!
We can do better than that.
PB sans TSE is like Tequila without the worm.
PB without TSE is like Python's parrot. Dead. Cos he edits it!
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
If the vaccines are shown to be increasingly less effective than billed then anti-vax is going to become a popular position.
Please don't go down the antivaxx rabbit hole next.
As far as I know there's absolutely no evidence that people are losing T-cell immunity etc they get from vaccinations yet.
Given that vax passports will not be applicable at the House of Commons (apparently), are we entitled to ask how many MPs (if any) are not double vaxxed?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
There's is slowing down, but only really in Eastern Germany. Western Germany - Bremen, the Saarland, etc., is in the mid-80s as percentage of adults with at least one jab, and will probaby reach the same levels as the UK.
While in the East - Saxony, Thuringia, etc. - they're only in the high 50s of adults with at least one jab.
One thing they have done that I believe will be shown to be absolutely correct: they've been mixing and matching products. Merkel, for example, had Astra-Zeneca followed by Moderna, and I think the mix-and-match strategy is going to result in meaningfully stronger immune responses.
As an aside: I think Germany will still make it to 82-83% of adults at a country-wide level. Simply, the East is only about 20% of the population, so even if they get stuck at 65% of adults, it doesn't pull overall numbers down that much.
It’s not just the east, and their first doses are now below the levels ours were a month ago.
Good to see the old British zone is leading the pack. Our influence runs deep
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
There's is slowing down, but only really in Eastern Germany. Western Germany - Bremen, the Saarland, etc., is in the mid-80s as percentage of adults with at least one jab, and will probaby reach the same levels as the UK.
While in the East - Saxony, Thuringia, etc. - they're only in the high 50s of adults with at least one jab.
One thing they have done that I believe will be shown to be absolutely correct: they've been mixing and matching products. Merkel, for example, had Astra-Zeneca followed by Moderna, and I think the mix-and-match strategy is going to result in meaningfully stronger immune responses.
As an aside: I think Germany will still make it to 82-83% of adults at a country-wide level. Simply, the East is only about 20% of the population, so even if they get stuck at 65% of adults, it doesn't pull overall numbers down that much.
It’s not just the east, and their first doses are now below the levels ours were a month ago.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Rally? Obesity was much lower in 1955 than now and yet is cited as a major complicator with covid.
People died much younger of all kinds of things in the 1950s. Many afflictions that are considered survivable now were a death sentence then. People were simply inured to it.
Unfortunately there has been too much poor information about this. Yes obesity is a risk factor, especially of having a poor outcome. Yes being older is a factor too. But there is also a hidden randomness to this, a bad luck old chap, you were the thin 40 year old who had a severe response and died, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHY. You must believe you are indstructible. Bad news old chap - you're not. There's a simple thing you can do to give yourself better odds - get the vaccine, and then a few weeks later get the 2nd shot. That's it. Its not 'experimental' - its had the same testing regime as any other healthcare product and a damn sight more than alcohol, tobacco etc.
I got chastised for using the e- word and do not use it any more, ever.
Well that's shit news. The longer this goes on, the less secure vaccination looks to being the "Covid is over, back to normal" solution that people keep insisting it is.
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
Bugger.
And again: Altogether - repeat after me: "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" etc This is the problem with non-experts writing about science, notably in the media. The reinfection rate so far is miniscule, hence prior infection confers lengthy protection, and so will vaccination.
Pleasing to see The Hundred starting off with poor viewing figures. There is hope left for cricket!
Personally, I don’t feel *pleased* by that given the financial ramifications of a poorly performing Hundred.
I’m just not very surprised either.
I like to think it's an early sign that if you dismiss the concerns of those who invest time and money into a sport over years and years then you'll always struggle. I think the ECB just assumed throwing money, lights and gizmos at cricket would give them a guaranteed success. Let's be honest they're piggybacking off the revolutionary idea that was T20.
At least the privileged youths at Rugby school who decided to do away with the handball rule in football and create a completely different sport had the common decency to form their own association. The problem with the 100 is that it is a completely different sport eating its way into cricket like a tapeworm.
Well that's shit news. The longer this goes on, the less secure vaccination looks to being the "Covid is over, back to normal" solution that people keep insisting it is.
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
"While antibody levels are important for protection, the immune system has other defences that are built up after infection or vaccination. It is normal for antibody levels to wane over time and for the immune system to “remember” the infection with memory B cells. Should the virus invade, these cells rapidly churn out antibodies targeted at the virus. Further protection comes from T cells, which destroy infected cells and limit the severity of disease.
“Antibodies are not the perfect measure of risk; we don’t know if there’s a magic number, as it were, where the risk of infection or hospitalisation becomes important,” said Aldridge. “But we think these data support the JCVI case for boosters, with priority for the clinically vulnerable, the over-70s, and all people living in residential care homes for older adults.” "
On the subject of vaccines, here's the World in Data figures on percentage of population:
We can - justly - be very proud of the British vaccination programme, while I think also admitting that the gap between us and our European neighbours has narrowed somewhat.
The figures I'm slightly surprised by in here are for France: because on the EU's own figures, it is only slightly behind Germany/Italy/Spain for proportion of adults. *Plus*, of course, France is vaccinating 12-17 year olds. Of course, there are more kids in France than in most other EU countries, but not that many more.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
If the vaccines are shown to be increasingly less effective than billed then anti-vax is going to become a popular position.
Please don't go down the antivaxx rabbit hole next.
As far as I know there's absolutely no evidence that people are losing T-cell immunity etc they get from vaccinations yet.
I'm not. I've had both doses. I'll get any boosters they wave at me. My point is that if - as suggested above - our vaccination programme is pretty much done because we aren't going to persuade more people to get it, think how low the rates for the booster will be.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
If the vaccines are shown to be increasingly less effective than billed then anti-vax is going to become a popular position.
Please don't go down the antivaxx rabbit hole next.
As far as I know there's absolutely no evidence that people are losing T-cell immunity etc they get from vaccinations yet.
I'm not. I've had both doses. I'll get any boosters they wave at me. My point is that if - as suggested above - our vaccination programme is pretty much done because we aren't going to persuade more people to get it, think how low the rates for the booster will be.
Approximately 90% of adults have gone for their vaccine.
I see little reason there'll be low rates for the booster.
On the subject of vaccines, here's the World in Data figures on percentage of population:
We can - justly - be very proud of the British vaccination programme, while I think also admitting that the gap between us and our European neighbours has narrowed somewhat.
The figures I'm slightly surprised by in here are for France: because on the EU's own figures, it is only slightly behind Germany/Italy/Spain for proportion of adults. *Plus*, of course, France is vaccinating 12-17 year olds. Of course, there are more kids in France than in most other EU countries, but not that many more.
All of Europe should have good programs and most do appear so. That they were slower off the mark was very relevant and worthy of critique, but it's less of an issue now with most of the vulnerable covered, even if some of them are still some weeks behind.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Well that's shit news. The longer this goes on, the less secure vaccination looks to being the "Covid is over, back to normal" solution that people keep insisting it is.
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
Bugger.
And again: Altogether - repeat after me: "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" etc This is the problem with non-experts writing about science, notably in the media. The reinfection rate so far is miniscule, hence prior infection confers lengthy protection, and so will vaccination.
Continuing drop in Scotland, though smaller drop than it has been. Drops in Wales now enough to look like a trend. All those drops wiped out by the increase in NI though.
Deaths in Scotland and Wales quite a lot. If Scotland's figures are per capita'd up we'd be looking at 250+ deaths for the UK. Should be noted Scottish deaths were also disproportionately large last Thursday.
.. We can - justly - be very proud of the British vaccination programme, while I think also admitting that the gap between us and our European neighbours has narrowed somewhat. [snip]
Unfortunately we've thrown away the advantage we had. Boris didn't do anything to stop Delta getting widely seeded when it was obvious he should, he screwed up the re-opening that would have been possible if we'd concentrated on the protection given to the (double-) jabbed, we've been slow to get the youngsters jabbed, and because of the mixed messaging and confusion we've now got one of the highest infection rates in Europe, thus triggering the pingdemic and negating all the advantages of being early in the vaccination programme.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
We don't have 67 million adults. How the fuck would that work with a population of 68 million ?!
lolz no we don't - thats our total population. Perhaps I am drunk as suggested...
There are another 12 million SeanT's we haven't met yet...
Well that's shit news. The longer this goes on, the less secure vaccination looks to being the "Covid is over, back to normal" solution that people keep insisting it is.
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
Bugger.
Do we have comparable studies, and is that an outlier?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Do they have more cars , what is your point given the question was WHO had administered the most Jabs. 87 is bigger than 82 , even a Tory fibber could not justify that other than by squirrel tactics.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
We don't have 67 million adults. How the fuck would that work with a population of 68 million ?!
He's become incoherent trying to defend a ridiculous point he made earlier. We all do it, better to just admit the earlier error and move on rather than keep digging.
1. I have already admitted the error 2. You wound me up the wrong way at the wrong moment 3. Better that I snarl on here and then laugh about it with an apology (sorry) than other things I could do
Max "Every post is filled with bollox" PB has a cheek chastising anyone , he makes up more merde than a herd of cows.
Comments
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1418191383400230912?s=20
Are you actually just trolling us, pretending to be an anti-vaxxer so they all look completely insane and mentally deficient?
Because if you genuinely believe what you’re posting, you need help, and I mean that.
2. You wound me up the wrong way at the wrong moment
3. Better that I snarl on here and then laugh about it with an apology (sorry) than other things I could do
No, I dot mean will lots of extra people get the jab, I mean will the % vaccinated change on the government COVID dashboard vaccination page?
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
According to the header at the top of that page, from today they will use mid 2020 population estimates insted of mid 2019 population estimates, for calculating the %
The numbers at the moment:
46,388,744 first doses which equates to 88.1% of all over 18s implying a population of 52,654,647 people over the age of 18 in the UK.
Now some have speculated with good reason, that many EU nationals who where formally living and working in the UK at the start of the pandemic, have left since then, partly as their jobs disappeared in the pandemic, partly because they wanted to be near there family's at a time of stress, and partly because of BREXIT. this may be overstated, but there are probably more who have left than arrived, we don't know haw many but will find out soon.
If its 2 million, which is probably far to high, but I'll do the calculation:
Then Population of 50,654,647 and 46,388,744 first jabs equates to 91.6% vaccinated adults.
if its 1,111,599 people than:
Then population of 51,543,049 and 46,388,744 first jabs equates to 90.00% vaccinated adults.
Even if its just half a million people then that will push us to 90% ish
Could be a lot less then half a million,
Anybody what to speculation as to what the new population estimate will be?
I'm going to guess just under a million, (based on absolutely nothing)
I feel like the only people who would object are those who pretend purdah was inappropriate so we had to move to pre election period.
It's just daft, a moments thought is all it takes to see why.
As far as I know there's absolutely no evidence that people are losing T-cell immunity etc they get from vaccinations yet.
Altogether - repeat after me:
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
etc
This is the problem with non-experts writing about science, notably in the media. The reinfection rate so far is miniscule, hence prior infection confers lengthy protection, and so will vaccination.
"While antibody levels are important for protection, the immune system has other defences that are built up after infection or vaccination. It is normal for antibody levels to wane over time and for the immune system to “remember” the infection with memory B cells. Should the virus invade, these cells rapidly churn out antibodies targeted at the virus. Further protection comes from T cells, which destroy infected cells and limit the severity of disease.
“Antibodies are not the perfect measure of risk; we don’t know if there’s a magic number, as it were, where the risk of infection or hospitalisation becomes important,” said Aldridge. “But we think these data support the JCVI case for boosters, with priority for the clinically vulnerable, the over-70s, and all people living in residential care homes for older adults.” "
We can - justly - be very proud of the British vaccination programme, while I think also admitting that the gap between us and our European neighbours has narrowed somewhat.
The figures I'm slightly surprised by in here are for France: because on the EU's own figures, it is only slightly behind Germany/Italy/Spain for proportion of adults. *Plus*, of course, France is vaccinating 12-17 year olds. Of course, there are more kids in France than in most other EU countries, but not that many more.
St Kilda
Foula
St Agnes (Scillies)
Harris
Brownsea
Skye (despite the crowds)
Eilean Sionnach
Lindisfarne
Eel Pie
Lewis (just for Callanish)
I see little reason there'll be low rates for the booster.
Sco: 1825 / 22 (2096 / 19)
Wal: 712 / 4 (861 / 0)
NI: 1430 / 0 (1083 / 0)
Continuing drop in Scotland, though smaller drop than it has been. Drops in Wales now enough to look like a trend. All those drops wiped out by the increase in NI though.
Deaths in Scotland and Wales quite a lot. If Scotland's figures are per capita'd up we'd be looking at 250+ deaths for the UK. Should be noted Scottish deaths were also disproportionately large last Thursday.