Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Why can't you see that you might be vulnerable to covid? Its a fecking lottery. People in the their 20's HAVE DIED, without pre-existing conditions.
Indeed, but I think it's the potential for life altering health conditions that's the bigger risk factor. Death in young people from COVID is actually really rare but 6 weeks of the virus wreaking havoc in their lungs isn't. The friend of mine is seriously worried that she's going to have the lung capacity of a 70 year old smoker once she's recovered and she was in really good shape before this, regular at the gym etc...
The A&E doctor told her not to worry about it because she's young enough to bounce back and with a regime of exercise she can regain what is lost in terms of her lungs. The one thing that annoys her is not being vaccinated, she wishes that the vaccine was offered to under 30s in April and the programme completed by June.
It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.
Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
Spot on.
“ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”
I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
How and why have things changed in that area?
I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
We honeymooned on Skye in 2003. Even with the bridge it was quiet. You go now, even on the shoulders of the season and the A87 is chocka, as are the obvious tourist bits. Even the end of the earth places like Neist Point are rammed. I did an "On an Island" drive in 2016 and did 17 islands (almost all Outer Hebridies). Was blissfully quiet in late May.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Herman Kahn describes the reaction of people to information that requires them to take an action they don't like.
For a substantial number of intelligent people, it takes the form of
- The information is wrong - The provider of the information is the problem
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
Covid killed about 100,000 in a single year. Measles about 500 in the years before vaccination started. How can you support total immunisation for measles but not covid?
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
Covid killed about 100,000 in a single year. Measles about 500 in the years before vaccination started. How can you support total immunisation for measles but not covid?
Of course, the irony that would be amusing under other circumstances is that measles kills so few in this country precisely because we have a good vaccination programme in it.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.
Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
Spot on.
“ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”
I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
How and why have things changed in that area?
I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
We honeymooned on Skye in 2003. Even with the bridge it was quiet. You go now, even on the shoulders of the season and the A87 is chocka, as are the obvious tourist bits. Even the end of the earth places like Neist Point are rammed. I did an "On an Island" drive in 2016 and did 17 islands (almost all Outer Hebridies). Was blissfully quiet in late May.
My islands list if anyone cares: Great Britain Eilean Donan Eilean Ban Skye Harris / Lewis Scalpay Great Bernera Berneray North Uist Baleshare Grimsay Fraoch Eilean Benbecula Flodda South Uist Eriskay Barra Vartersay Seil
I slept badly. Overslept, which is rare for me. Hot today.
Yet it's been my most productive day probably of the month. I am unsure what to make of this.
Yes, we're in an oldish dormer bungalow and the upstairs is a job of work to get tolerable. So much so that I took the option of the sleep sandwich last night (this one is recommended for shift workers by The Sleep Council): the Bovril, mashed banana and lettuce sandwich. Apart from the savoury-sweet combination making pineapple pizza look like an accountant sat next to TSE in his loudest outfit, it worked an absolute treat.
As to the concentration, are you are distractible kind Mr Dancer? Sometimes just switching off the internal chatter is just the thing - I often find I'm efficient in the last hour of a hangover or with a cold when I've rallied but my subconscious is clearly still under the weather.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.
Not according to the Doctor (I forgot her name) who approved Oxford / AZ. And Germany have passed us with vaccinations.
Trying to work out if something happened in circa February 2020 that might have altered things?
According to the graph, things are where they were in 2017. Although I am not sure many people would recognise the substantial rise in exports 2017-19 shown. is there more going on (currency value?)
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
Covid killed about 100,000 in a single year. Measles about 500 in the years before vaccination started. How can you support total immunisation for measles but not covid?
Of course, the irony that would be amusing under other circumstances is that measles kills so few in this country precisely because we have a good vaccination programme in it.
Yeah, getting everyone vaccinated gave it nowhere else to go, protecting those who legitimately can't get vaccinated.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
To quote more or less the life expectancy of an 80 year old is 10 years. The life expectancy of an overweight 80 year old with heart disease is 5 years. But what the hell, sod 'em.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.
Not according to the Doctor (I forgot her name) who approved Oxford / AZ. And Germany have passed us with vaccinations.
As an absolute number of course they should - Germany has 83 million people.
"There will be a year long recession immediately, a huge surge in unemployment, an interest rate spike and potentially the destruction of Western civilization"*
After the vote:
"A multivariate analysis by a pro-EU think tank, based on a huge host of questionable assumptions, claims we lost trade worth less than eight months of GDP growth".
The Spectator @spectator 'I now accept that when players start taking the knee again in a few weeks’ time it will not be because they’re rabid neo-Marxists.' Toby Young
Good morning fellow PBers. Your resident "soft-headed bigot" (copyright kinabalu) signing in for another day of robust debate about the issues of the day.
No-one thinks footballers "are" neo-Marxists - that would be absurd. Presumably, the reason some people do not support the taking of the knee at sporting events is because it adopts the symbolism of the BLM movement, which is, openly, a neo-Marxist organization. If one adopts the symbolism of an organization then it's reasonable to assume support for it.
Trying to explain that away by saying "no, no, we're not supporting the organization; we're just saying we're against racism" is problematic when there are perfectly good campaigns, such as "Kick It Out" and "Show Racism the Red Card", out there and doing a good job of highlighting the issue.
It's interesting that the FA and others have doubled down on the "taking of the knee" when they could have just as easily supported "taking a stand" or "turning a back" - which do not have divisive political overtones - instead. Personally, I'm not a fan of using sport for any political purpose but that's by the by - it seems it's here to stay.
Anyway, it sounds as if the likes of Topy Young are admitting defeat on this one, which is a notable development given that the underlying concerns about the association with BLM and it's objectives have not gone away.
Don't start thinking you're something special. SHBs are ten a penny. But ok, objection noted, let's see how we get on from here. I've been known to revise assessments based on evolving info. This latest offering of yours leaves us with status quo, sadly, but life is long.
Taking the Knee is another tool for Middle Class urban football fans to demonstrate their superiority over their poorer football-supporting brethren. It is the Middle Class types who get to frame the debate and say what is and what is not acceptable, and those who disagree are labelled as bigots by these very types. The FA panders to it because they know that these types also set the public agenda.
As was said on this site, last week, if somebody was giving a Nazi / Fascist salute, you wouldn't be thinking of the nuances such as "that person in giving the salute is really expressing support for Germany's Autobahn plans in the 1930s", you would be assuming they support the organisation of which that is a symbol.
You should be attacking BLM for appropriating a symbol that could have been seen as a non-political way of opposing racism, instead of which BLM decided to adopt it for itself so it could further its own cause.
It's a strange world you live in, Ed. I truly don't recognize it outside the arena of right wing digitalis.
Maybe. People are never the best judge of themselves. But it may be the lack of recognition is because you live in the left-wing equivalent of mine. I truly don't understand how somebody with a pen1s can just turn up and say "I'm a woman" but many progressives take that view.
You can write "penis", Ed. Nothing to worry about there. Least I hope there isn't.
But, look, that's a caricature. There's nothing new about people needing to escape the gender of their birth sex. It's not a political issue, it's a mental health issue. All countries other than the most repressive have in place a process by which you can change gender. The debate is about how quick and easy the process should be, how much medical involvement, what safeguards, etc.
There's quite a spectrum out there. Some countries (eg Ireland, Norway, Portugal, Belgium, Argentina) have a process based entirely on self-ID. You make a legal declaration and don't need to get involved with doctors. At the other extreme there are countries where the process is very heavily medicalized and takes a long long time. At present we are closer to this end of things. Mrs May's proposed GRA reforms would have moved us towards the other end.
Whatever, I think we should try and get back to viewing the issue through the prism of the practical needs of the beleaguered minority who are most impacted, transgender people. Yes, there's a tension with certain sex-based rights, let's have that properly discussed and dealt with, but the current situation - meaningful reform out of the question because politicians are pandering to the herd and exploiting a problem rather than seeking to understand and remedy it - is a poor show.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
To quote more or less the life expectancy of an 80 year old is 10 years. The life expectancy of an overweight 80 year old with heart disease is 5 years. But what the hell, sod 'em.
I think selfish bastard still fits the bill.
Also death is an incredibly low bar. Max's friend has clearly been very severely effected by Covid. She's twenty six. The chance of a strong post viral syndrome seems fucking massive with Covid to me if you're unvaccinated.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
No, I'm pretty sure it would have gone noticed give how many people would have died and how full the hospitals would have been.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.
Have you seen the bootlicking letter that they made the four EU Health Ministers' - the ones who tried to get started on dealing with the pandemic whilst EuCo was twiddling its thumbs - sign when the EU took over? That's the self-regarding style of the place. Followed by vaccine faceplant.
Its really disappointing that the signatures are not in blood.
You are descending from one of the brightest posters on here to about par for PB Leavers. Very disappointing and really boring
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.
Not according to the Doctor (I forgot her name) who approved Oxford / AZ. And Germany have passed us with vaccinations.
As an absolute number of course they should - Germany has 83 million people.
It's a quite stupid comparison, because the whole point of vaccinating fast was to get protection sooner, not to end up a higher total later. So it's about the area under the line of the graph (you can think of that as days of vaccine protection per capita), not the ultimate level, where of course we'd expect Germany to end up with more people vaccinated because there are more Germans.
It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.
Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
Spot on.
“ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”
I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
How and why have things changed in that area?
I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
We honeymooned on Skye in 2003. Even with the bridge it was quiet. You go now, even on the shoulders of the season and the A87 is chocka, as are the obvious tourist bits. Even the end of the earth places like Neist Point are rammed. I did an "On an Island" drive in 2016 and did 17 islands (almost all Outer Hebridies). Was blissfully quiet in late May.
My islands list if anyone cares: Great Britain Eilean Donan Eilean Ban Skye Harris / Lewis Scalpay Great Bernera Berneray North Uist Baleshare Grimsay Fraoch Eilean Benbecula Flodda South Uist Eriskay Barra Vartersay Seil
GB Wight Lindisfarne Bass Inchcolm Orkney mainland and Churchill Barrier linked islands Westray Hoy Sanday Shapinsay Unst Yell Bressay Shetland mainland Mousa Shiants (2) Lewis and Harris Scalpay North Uist Benbecula South Uist Eriskay Barra Vatersay Oigh-sgeir Skye (before the birdge) Raasay Rum Eigg Canna Sanday Mull (Seil doesn't count) Earraid Iona Staffa Lunga Gigha
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.
Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
Spot on.
“ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”
I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
How and why have things changed in that area?
I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
We honeymooned on Skye in 2003. Even with the bridge it was quiet. You go now, even on the shoulders of the season and the A87 is chocka, as are the obvious tourist bits. Even the end of the earth places like Neist Point are rammed. I did an "On an Island" drive in 2016 and did 17 islands (almost all Outer Hebridies). Was blissfully quiet in late May.
My islands list if anyone cares: Great Britain Eilean Donan Eilean Ban Skye Harris / Lewis Scalpay Great Bernera Berneray North Uist Baleshare Grimsay Fraoch Eilean Benbecula Flodda South Uist Eriskay Barra Vartersay Seil
Aye, but was it the Skye or the Harris Scalpay?
I've remembered that north of Rasaay there's the island of Rona. Checking Wiki there are 2 residents who manage the B&B, bunkhouse etc. Good place to escape the 'rona..
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
More people. Not a greater proportion of the population. RP was a bit tricky there, but technically correct.
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
More people. Not a greater proportion of the population. RP was a bit tricky there, but technically correct.
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
To quote more or less the life expectancy of an 80 year old is 10 years. The life expectancy of an overweight 80 year old with heart disease is 5 years. But what the hell, sod 'em.
I think selfish bastard still fits the bill.
Also death is an incredibly low bar. Max's friend has clearly been very severely effected by Covid. She's twenty six. The chance of a strong post viral syndrome seems fucking massive with Covid to me if you're unvaccinated.
+1 - since very early on, death from covid hasn't been my personal concern (late 40s not so not likely to kill me), the risk was that it makes you ill and that illness did permanent harm..
And it's that piece of information that doesn't seem to get out - for most people it's long term chronic illness due to Covid you really need to be scared of.
Perhaps relatedly, after my drinks I walked home from Highgate to Camden, as the night is so beautiful and warm (and it is all downhill)
Wow, north London feels edgy, sketchy and often deserted. It feels like it did in the early 1980s. Scruffy, sooty, silent, noisy, very un-chic, it is like 40 years of gentrification have been reversed in one and a half years of plague
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! On that route, you must have pretty much walked past my house. Highgate remains as edgy as a globe. Kentish Town has always been a bit scruffy and sooty, but is more gentrified today than it was 5 years ago. We've still got chicken shops, but they are being rapidly outnumbered by artisanal bakeries.
No food shortages No driver shortages No face masks (or rather extremely rare) Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling Young adults partying just as hard as usual Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees) Glorious suntans and happy faces abound Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty
How’s your Summer of Discontent going?
Reminds me of the pictures of the czechs last summer....or Florida a couple of months ago ...
Yes, if my theory of Covid Always Punishing Smugness And Hubris is correct, then Sweden is about to be visited by an Epsilon Variant with an R0 of 27, a CFR of 57% and soon Stockholm will be inhabited solely by feral 12 year olds scavenging the last pickled fish
The reality of covid is unless you operate a prison island, covid will eventually find you and by the time you think you might have a problem, you have a f##king massive problem.
It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.
Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
Spot on.
“ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”
I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
How and why have things changed in that area?
I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
We honeymooned on Skye in 2003. Even with the bridge it was quiet. You go now, even on the shoulders of the season and the A87 is chocka, as are the obvious tourist bits. Even the end of the earth places like Neist Point are rammed. I did an "On an Island" drive in 2016 and did 17 islands (almost all Outer Hebridies). Was blissfully quiet in late May.
My islands list if anyone cares: Great Britain Eilean Donan Eilean Ban Skye Harris / Lewis Scalpay Great Bernera Berneray North Uist Baleshare Grimsay Fraoch Eilean Benbecula Flodda South Uist Eriskay Barra Vartersay Seil
I'll bite:
GB Handa Harris / Lewis Benbecula North Uist South Uist Skye Rum Eigg Tiree Coll Iona Mull Staffa Jura Gigha Arran Anglesey Holy Island Ramsey Island (And do Hilbre Island, Lindisfarne and Llanddwyn Island Count?)
Disgustingly, not the Isle of Wight.
Every island is an adventure. Whilst we are moaning about too many tourists now, I always used to wonder why so many people always went abroad and never explored their own country.
It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.
Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
Spot on.
“ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”
I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
How and why have things changed in that area?
I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
We honeymooned on Skye in 2003. Even with the bridge it was quiet. You go now, even on the shoulders of the season and the A87 is chocka, as are the obvious tourist bits. Even the end of the earth places like Neist Point are rammed. I did an "On an Island" drive in 2016 and did 17 islands (almost all Outer Hebridies). Was blissfully quiet in late May.
My islands list if anyone cares: Great Britain Eilean Donan Eilean Ban Skye Harris / Lewis Scalpay Great Bernera Berneray North Uist Baleshare Grimsay Fraoch Eilean Benbecula Flodda South Uist Eriskay Barra Vartersay Seil
Aye, but was it the Skye or the Harris Scalpay?
I've remembered that north of Rasaay there's the island of Rona. Checking Wiki there are 2 residents who manage the B&B, bunkhouse etc. Good place to escape the 'rona..
Two* Grimsays too - I've stayed on the smaller one, to the south-east of Benbecula
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
1890 "Russian flu"...
Coronavirus After the 2002–2004 SARS outbreak, virologists started sequencing and comparing human and animal coronaviruses, and comparison of two virus strains in the Betacoronavirus 1 species, bovine coronavirus and human coronavirus OC43, indicated that they had a most recent common ancestor in the late 19th century, with several methods yielding most probable dates around 1890.[7][18] Authors speculated that an introduction of the former strain to the human population might have caused the epidemic.[7] In 2020, Danish researchers Lone Simonsen and Anders Gorm Pedersen similarly calculated that the human coronavirus OC43 had split from bovine coronavirus about 130 years before, approximately coinciding with the pandemic in 1889–1890. The calculation was based on genetic comparisons between bovine coronavirus and different strains of OC43. Their research had not been formally published as of November 2020.[19]
Pathology Patterns of mortality Unlike most influenza pandemics such as the 1918 flu, primarily elderly people died in 1889.[19] Due to generally lower standards of living, worse hygiene, and poorer standard of medicine, the proportion of vulnerable people was higher than in the modern world
If the rest of PB is as nerdy as I am, and I'm pretty sure that's the case, we at least have one great thing to look forward to this year: Denis Villeneuve's Dune.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
More people. Not a greater proportion of the population. RP was a bit tricky there, but technically correct.
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
We're behind India as well on that measure 🤦♂️
And don't get me started on the pitiful numbers vaccinated in Wales. Time to wake the Drake.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
I'm sure that if you put up the disease and death profiles and graphics for influenza pre-covid, they would in your terms, look alarming, and would argue for compulsory vaccination of all age groups every year.
And yet they weren't. And very few people did argue that way.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
Nor does measles do anything like this (which is a mechanism by which the virus effs up the immune system, and might have something to do with long Covid).
SARS-CoV-2 Restructures the Host Chromatin Architecture https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.453146v1.full.pdf ...Here, we mapped high-resolution landscapes of the 3D genome and epigenome in cells of human lung epithelial origin after acute SARS-CoV-2 infection, and our results revealed dramatic viral restructuring of the host chromatin. Hi-C 3.0 data uncovered significant defects of chromatin compartmentalization and TAD structures (Fig.4g). These are manifested at the compartment levels as wide-spread A weakening and A-B mixing, and at the TAD levels as global reduction of intra-TAD chromatin contacts. These 3D genome changes, to our knowledge, represent a unique and previously unappreciated rewiring of the mammalian 3D genome in pathological settings...
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
Bullshit. People would have been getting extremely sick and dying all over the country if this hit in 1960. The life expectancy has not shot up in the last 10 years. I have no idea what your point is with al this. Maybe you are just a WUM.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
More people. Not a greater proportion of the population. RP was a bit tricky there, but technically correct.
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
Germany have stuck 5m more needles in arms than we have. From a later start. Their vaccination programme is faster than ours. If we were further ahead on vaccinations than Germany then we would have stuck 5m more needles in arms than they have.
Philip was doing his usual world expert shit and as usual talking bollocks.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
I'm sure that if you put up the disease and death profiles and graphics for influenza pre-covid, they would in your terms, look alarming, and would argue for compulsory vaccination of all age groups every year.
And yet they weren't. And very few people did argue that way.
I wonder why that is.
The fact they are doing that for Covid should make you think.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Doesn't nearly every study which looks end up sheepishly having to admit smoking appears to be protective against covid?
If the rest of PB is as nerdy as I am, and I'm pretty sure that's the case, we at least have one great thing to look forward to this year: Denis Villeneuve's Dune.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
So you want to go in gross numbers rather than per capita? Which is in other words a complete and utter lie, nobody ever does that for good reason. 🤦♂️
I don't always agree with you, but you used to have integrity. What happened to you?
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Rally? Obesity was much lower in 1955 than now and yet is cited as a major complicator with covid.
People died much younger of all kinds of things in the 1950s. Many afflictions that are considered survivable now were a death sentence then. People were simply inured to it.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Doesn't nearly every study which looks end up sheepishly having to admit smoking appears to be protective against covid?
I thought that was just a myth, rather than supported by studies?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Because they had to buy more doses because they are a larger country. It really is quite simple.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
So you want to go in gross numbers rather than per capita? Which is in other words a complete and utter lie, nobody ever does that for good reason. 🤦♂️
I don't always agree with you, but you used to have integrity. What happened to you?
I will take that under HYUFD-levels of advisement.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
I'm sure that if you put up the disease and death profiles and graphics for influenza pre-covid, they would in your terms, look alarming, and would argue for compulsory vaccination of all age groups every year.
And yet they weren't. And very few people did argue that way.
I wonder why that is.
You sure ‘very few people’ argued that way? That’s not my recollection of it. Quite the reverse, in fact - it was argued we should be vaccinating against seasonal flu much more widely than we were.
And yet even the four worst flu seasons of the last 100 years have a far lower combined mortality figure than Covid..which would rather invalidate your point anyway.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Ours has slowed down because it is almost finished. Theirs has not, because they have not, you dolt.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Doesn't nearly every study which looks end up sheepishly having to admit smoking appears to be protective against covid?
I don’t know because I haven’t seen them, but it wouldn’t actually surprise me. Albeit not for medical reasons. Who wants to get close enough to smell a smoker’s breath in this day and age?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
More people. Not a greater proportion of the population. RP was a bit tricky there, but technically correct.
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
Germany have stuck 5m more needles in arms than we have. From a later start. Their vaccination programme is faster than ours. If we were further ahead on vaccinations than Germany then we would have stuck 5m more needles in arms than they have.
Philip was doing his usual world expert shit and as usual talking bollocks.
Err no, you're just lying. That's like saying the EU has had about 7x the deaths we have, while disregarding the fact that the EU has 7x the population and in reality they're comparable in deaths to the UK (probably more than us in reality looking at excess deaths).
UK jabs per 100 people: 121.96 Ger jabs per 100 people: 104.03
We've done 20% more jabs than they have done per capita. On a per capita basis we've done over 12 million jabs more than they have. 🤦♂️
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Doesn't nearly every study which looks end up sheepishly having to admit smoking appears to be protective against covid?
I thought that was just a myth, rather than supported by studies?
My grandmother was convinced that smoking would prevent her from getting dementia (which is something her mother had suffered from). To be fair, it sort of did by killing her though cancer, and to be honest I think she preferred it that way.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Doesn't nearly every study which looks end up sheepishly having to admit smoking appears to be protective against covid?
I don’t know because I haven’t seen them, but it wouldn’t actually surprise me. Albeit not for medical reasons. Who wants to get close enough to smell a smoker’s breath in this day and age?
Notd to mention the fact that smelling a neighbour's tobacco smoke while sitting in the garden is a good motivator to get up and move, for more than one reason.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
No more people die with covid.
That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
Thanks, but I have never argued it was only those over 80.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
If it had arrived in this country before about 1955, it would probably have had a far higher mortality rate due to the vast numbers of people who had scarred or destroyed lungs from TB. Not even mentioning the number of heavy smokers around.
Rally? Obesity was much lower in 1955 than now and yet is cited as a major complicator with covid.
People died much younger of all kinds of things in the 1950s. Many afflictions that are considered survivable now were a death sentence then. People were simply inured to it.
Unfortunately there has been too much poor information about this. Yes obesity is a risk factor, especially of having a poor outcome. Yes being older is a factor too. But there is also a hidden randomness to this, a bad luck old chap, you were the thin 40 year old who had a severe response and died, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHY. You must believe you are indstructible. Bad news old chap - you're not. There's a simple thing you can do to give yourself better odds - get the vaccine, and then a few weeks later get the 2nd shot. That's it. Its not 'experimental' - its had the same testing regime as any other healthcare product and a damn sight more than alcohol, tobacco etc.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
More people. Not a greater proportion of the population. RP was a bit tricky there, but technically correct.
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
Germany have stuck 5m more needles in arms than we have. From a later start. Their vaccination programme is faster than ours. If we were further ahead on vaccinations than Germany then we would have stuck 5m more needles in arms than they have.
Philip was doing his usual world expert shit and as usual talking bollocks.
But there's more of them? Unless you haven't noticed the UK has hit the demand wall. Or maybe you have and are trying to pathetically point score true to your Labour roots.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I can understand his anger. If there's anything less attractive on this site than the English exceptionalism brigade I haven't seen it. Unfortunately as the rest get bored and move on you are left with the least interesting singing Kumbaya
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
We don't have 67 million adults. How the fuck would that work with a population of 68 million ?!
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
The whole bloody point of what we did — early MHRA approval, loads of deals, stretched intervals — was to go faster. FASTER. On that basis I don't know that anybody else has really done much better, and certainly not Germany.
You really do not seem to have grasped the entire point of what we have been doing all along.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
There's is slowing down, but only really in Eastern Germany. Western Germany - Bremen, the Saarland, etc., is in the mid-80s as percentage of adults with at least one jab, and will probaby reach the same levels as the UK.
While in the East - Saxony, Thuringia, etc. - they're only in the high 50s of adults with at least one jab.
One thing they have done that I believe will be shown to be absolutely correct: they've been mixing and matching products. Merkel, for example, had Astra-Zeneca followed by Moderna, and I think the mix-and-match strategy is going to result in meaningfully stronger immune responses.
As an aside: I think Germany will still make it to 82-83% of adults at a country-wide level. Simply, the East is only about 20% of the population, so even if they get stuck at 65% of adults, it doesn't pull overall numbers down that much.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
Again are you drunk? Germany has 83m people, their demand wall is simply higher than ours and they are running into it now.
Altogether - repeat after me: "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" "The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies" etc This is the problem with non-experts writing about science, notably in the media. The reinfection rate so far is miniscule, hence prior infection confers lengthy protection, and so will vaccination.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
We don't have 67 million adults. How the fuck would that work with a population of 68 million ?!
lolz no we don't - thats our total population. Perhaps I am drunk as suggested...
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I can understand his anger. If there's anything less attractive on this site than the English exceptionalism brigade I haven't seen it. Unfortunately as the rest get bored and move on you are left with the least interesting singing Kumbaya
It works both ways though: there are a similar number of posters who seem to think that the UK is uniquely bad at everything compared to almost any other country.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I can understand his anger. If there's anything less attractive on this site than the English exceptionalism brigade I haven't seen it. Unfortunately as the rest get bored and move on you are left with the least interesting singing Kumbaya
The anyone-but-england exceptionalism brigade are pretty tiresome too.
Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.
If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.
But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.
I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.
YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.
We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.
So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?
Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??
Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.
You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
Wow me and my 'kind'
I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.
Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.
Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.
That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.
I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
Measles is not ageist in the way that covid is, from what I can see. The numbers show surely, that covid is lethal for the old and infirm (rather like influenza) and so vaccinate with my blessing.
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
Here are the figures for measles deaths in this country:
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
I'm sure that if you put up the disease and death profiles and graphics for influenza pre-covid, they would in your terms, look alarming, and would argue for compulsory vaccination of all age groups every year.
And yet they weren't. And very few people did argue that way.
I wonder why that is.
You sure ‘very few people’ argued that way? That’s not my recollection of it. Quite the reverse, in fact - it was argued we should be vaccinating against seasonal flu much more widely than we were.
And yet even the four worst flu seasons of the last 100 years have a far lower combined mortality figure than Covid..which would rather invalidate your point anyway.
Yes well now we are coming up against died with covid versus died of covid right?
I mean, if you are stopping people from hugging dying relatives, racking up untold billions in debt and letting thousands of cancers go undiagnosed, it better not be for nothing, right?
Covid has to be serious, it absolutely has to be, for you and every vaxxer out there, If it isn't you have been the victim of the most gigantic con-job in history and are the greatest booby going.
And for someone as self regarding as you, that would be impossible to countenance.
And in one sense, that's what vax passports are. A validation of your choices. A snack for an obedient puppy.
Pleasing to see The Hundred starting off with poor viewing figures. There is hope left for cricket!
Personally, I don’t feel *pleased* by that given the financial ramifications of a poorly performing Hundred.
I’m just not very surprised either.
I like to think it's an early sign that if you dismiss the concerns of those who invest time and money into a sport over years and years then you'll always struggle. I think the ECB just assumed throwing money, lights and gizmos at cricket would give them a guaranteed success. Let's be honest they're piggybacking off the revolutionary idea that was T20.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
We don't have 67 million adults. How the fuck would that work with a population of 68 million ?!
He's become incoherent trying to defend a ridiculous point he made earlier. We all do it, better to just admit the earlier error and move on rather than keep digging.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
So should we be rounding up people like contrarian and Dura_Ace and giving them the vaccine against their will?
Plus of course the JCVI have chosen to hold back second jabs until 8 weeks on the basis their data says that gives a better level of protection than giving it after three. I would have guessed that's a mistake personally, but they're the experts. Either way the UK has hit a demand wall and is 20% further ahead, 12 million jabs further ahead, per capita than Germany is.
If the UK had done 12 million fewer jabs we'd be at the same vaccination rate as Germany is.
So yes, you're just lying. Or don't understand statistics.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
So should we be rounding up people like contrarian and Dura_Ace and giving them the vaccine against their will?
Plus of course the JCVI have chosen to hold back second jabs until 8 weeks on the basis their data says that gives a better level of protection than giving it after three. I would have guessed that's a mistake personally, but they're the experts. Either way the UK has hit a demand wall and is 20% further ahead, 12 million jabs further ahead, per capita than Germany is.
If the UK had done 12 million fewer jabs we'd be at the same vaccination rate as Germany is.
So yes, you're just lying. Or don't understand statistics.
We don't have to round them up, we can shoot them with special vaccine darts.
Well that's shit news. The longer this goes on, the less secure vaccination looks to being the "Covid is over, back to normal" solution that people keep insisting it is.
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
Erm…yeah…more people vaccinated in total, but fewer per capita. Germany has more people. I don’t think that’s worth swearing at each other over.
I didn't sneeringly patronise Philip. Look, we need to get the vast majority of 67m adults vaccinated twice. Thats 134m doses. Saying Germany is ahead having administered 88m doses is hardly setting an unachievable target, which is why I haven't quoted India or America because no, absolutes that are unachievable are irrelevant.
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
So should we be rounding up people like contrarian and Dura_Ace and giving them the vaccine against their will?
Plus of course the JCVI have chosen to hold back second jabs until 8 weeks on the basis their data says that gives a better level of protection than giving it after three. I would have guessed that's a mistake personally, but they're the experts. Either way the UK has hit a demand wall and is 20% further ahead, 12 million jabs further ahead, per capita than Germany is.
If the UK had done 12 million fewer jabs we'd be at the same vaccination rate as Germany is.
So yes, you're just lying. Or don't understand statistics.
We don't have to round them up, we can shoot them with special vaccine darts.
I suppose we just scan people who don't have the tracker and shoot them?
Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
The EU vaccine scheme would have meant we'd have to share our stocks from Oxford/AZ.
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
You do know they have a larger population, right?
Of course! But not dramatically more like America or India. My point is simple - they have delivered more vaccinations than we have from a later start. Our vax programme has massively slowed down, theirs hasn't, so blaming the EU for how Germany have failed is ludicrous.
Actually Germany’s vaccine programme is dramatically slowing down and plateauing at a much lower level than ours did.
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......
Highest death toll in Europe.
Worst-hit major economy.
Businesses closing.
A million kids off school last week.
Millions to self-isolate.
Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.
Heading for a summer of chaos.
And Starmer's alternative vision? He engaged his big brain yesterday, it lasted 30 mins until it hit reality and he had to ditch it. Just test everybody every time they want to go out he said, it would be much easier and more effective than vaccine passports...
I genuinely keep waiting for him to step up and start to provide some clear narrative about what he would do different. At the moment it is masks on trains and open a window.
He proposed a lockdown as the 2nd wave was gearing up. Johnson ignored him because (i) the Telegraph and the Spectator weren't keen and (ii) he didn't want it to look like Starmer was Captain Foresight, thus undermining the snappy new derisory nickname he'd come up with. Upshot - loads died who otherwise wouldn't have. Johnson shrugs and moves on. It's government, Jim, but not as we know it.
No, he proposed a 2 week firebreak, which was based on a totally flawed model from the University of Warwick. He was trying Boris type cake-ism. We can have a bit of a lockdown, not for long, and that will fix it.
If he had proposed a proper lockdown, I would have said absolutely. If he had proposed proper border controls over a year ago, I would have said, sensible chap, instead he waited until too late to call for them and even then it is all very fudgy, he still kinda of sort of wants an airbridge approach.
Starmer has flunked it as every turn and that's why the Tories are still 9-10% up. If he had come out with very sensible suggestions ahead of time, he would be winning in the polls. Instead it has been left to the likes of Hunt and Tony Blair to be making sensible constructive criticisms of the government, complete with some solutions.
So, do a "firebreak" and extend for longer then. That's just linguistic semantics. He proposed action, Johnson chose no action, and for the most ridiculous of reasons. Many people paid with their lives. It's got sweet FA to do with Keir Starmer. None of this does. He's not in power. The pandemic hit in Jan 2020. Boris Johnson was PM then. With a stonking big majority. The pandemic has raged for 18 months. Boris Johnson has been the PM for all of that time. With his stonking big majority. The pandemic is with us still today and Boris Johnson is PM still today - his majority as impressive as ever. Unfortunately his majority is the only impressive thing about him. This is the problem. Not the only one, not at all, but a big one - maybe the biggest.
Comments
The A&E doctor told her not to worry about it because she's young enough to bounce back and with a regime of exercise she can regain what is lost in terms of her lungs. The one thing that annoys her is not being vaccinated, she wishes that the vaccine was offered to under 30s in April and the programme completed by June.
For a substantial number of intelligent people, it takes the form of
- The information is wrong
- The provider of the information is the problem
Generally both.....
But my underpants are next to my balls, and I didn’t want anyone thinking that was what I was typing
Under 5s can be very vulnerable to measles, but not covid, from what I can see. Ditto, mumps, rubella, polio etc.
I'll leave this here for you to digest. Its not only those over 80...
As for your parallel universe where Germany is further ahead on vaccinations than we are. What are you talking about? Do you hate Boris that much that you just want to lie, or do you have some "alternative facts" like Trump?
Great Britain
Eilean Donan
Eilean Ban
Skye
Harris / Lewis
Scalpay
Great Bernera
Berneray
North Uist
Baleshare
Grimsay
Fraoch Eilean
Benbecula
Flodda
South Uist
Eriskay
Barra
Vartersay
Seil
Been emailing JohnO, he's in fine fettle.
As to the concentration, are you are distractible kind Mr Dancer? Sometimes just switching off the internal chatter is just the thing - I often find I'm efficient in the last hour of a hangover or with a cold when I've rallied but my subconscious is clearly still under the weather.
"Both leaders agreed to remain in touch." 😐 https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1418198207025274881/photo/1
I think selfish bastard still fits the bill.
"There will be a year long recession immediately, a huge surge in unemployment, an interest rate spike and potentially the destruction of Western civilization"*
After the vote:
"A multivariate analysis by a pro-EU think tank, based on a huge host of questionable assumptions, claims we lost trade worth less than eight months of GDP growth".
*These were all actual claims of Remainers.
But, look, that's a caricature. There's nothing new about people needing to escape the gender of their birth sex. It's not a political issue, it's a mental health issue. All countries other than the most repressive have in place a process by which you can change gender. The debate is about how quick and easy the process should be, how much medical involvement, what safeguards, etc.
There's quite a spectrum out there. Some countries (eg Ireland, Norway, Portugal, Belgium, Argentina) have a process based entirely on self-ID. You make a legal declaration and don't need to get involved with doctors. At the other extreme there are countries where the process is very heavily medicalized and takes a long long time. At present we are closer to this end of things. Mrs May's proposed GRA reforms would have moved us towards the other end.
Whatever, I think we should try and get back to viewing the issue through the prism of the practical needs of the beleaguered minority who are most impacted, transgender people. Yes, there's a tension with certain sex-based rights, let's have that properly discussed and dealt with, but the current situation - meaningful reform out of the question because politicians are pandering to the herd and exploiting a problem rather than seeking to understand and remedy it - is a poor show.
One point I have made though is, imagine covid at any other point in time in history before say, 10-year ago.
I would argue it have gone virtually unnoticed, because the people that have died from covid largely would not have been alive to contract it.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-deaths-by-age-group-from-1980-to-2013-ons-data/measles-notifications-and-deaths-in-england-and-wales-1940-to-2013
Seven adults and three children, of whom one was aged under five, died of measles in the period 2006-2017.
Only two of them did not have co-morbidities of some kind.
Those figures do bear a fairly striking resemblance to Covid, in the sense that 80% were people with underlying health conditions.
But they are much lower raw numbers. Why? Because we have vaccines, which inhibits the spread of the disease and makes it much less severe if people do catch it.
So again, your anti-Covid vax claims do not stand up to scrutiny.
Wight
Lindisfarne
Bass
Inchcolm
Orkney mainland and Churchill Barrier linked islands
Westray
Hoy
Sanday
Shapinsay
Unst
Yell
Bressay
Shetland mainland
Mousa
Shiants (2)
Lewis and Harris
Scalpay
North Uist
Benbecula
South Uist
Eriskay
Barra
Vatersay
Oigh-sgeir
Skye (before the birdge)
Raasay
Rum
Eigg
Canna
Sanday
Mull
(Seil doesn't count)
Earraid
Iona
Staffa
Lunga
Gigha
(but anchored off still more)
I've remembered that north of Rasaay there's the island of Rona. Checking Wiki there are 2 residents who manage the B&B, bunkhouse etc.
Good place to escape the 'rona..
Of course, on that metric, we've been ahead of Israel since 10 Jan or so, but behind the US probably forever and consistently behind the EU since late Feb. So you can take a view on how meaningful it is.
And it's that piece of information that doesn't seem to get out - for most people it's long term chronic illness due to Covid you really need to be scared of.
He has been instructed to pay £100,000 in damages plus costs.
More as we get it
https://twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1418198408410566663?s=20
Highest death toll in Europe.
-> Not true
Worst-hit major economy.
-> Not true
Businesses closing.
-> True, but neither new nor unique to the UK
A million kids off school last week.
-> True. But wait till you see how many are off school next week!
Millions to self-isolate.
-> At least 30% of whom have the lurgy
Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.
-> Is there anywhere that doesn't have Delta now?
Heading for a summer of chaos.
-> True. This is a pandemic. I'll bite:
GB
Handa
Harris / Lewis
Benbecula
North Uist
South Uist
Skye
Rum
Eigg
Tiree
Coll
Iona
Mull
Staffa
Jura
Gigha
Arran
Anglesey
Holy Island
Ramsey Island
(And do Hilbre Island, Lindisfarne and Llanddwyn Island Count?)
Disgustingly, not the Isle of Wight.
Every island is an adventure. Whilst we are moaning about too many tourists now, I always used to wonder why so many people always went abroad and never explored their own country.
*well, probably more, I expect
Coronavirus
After the 2002–2004 SARS outbreak, virologists started sequencing and comparing human and animal coronaviruses, and comparison of two virus strains in the Betacoronavirus 1 species, bovine coronavirus and human coronavirus OC43, indicated that they had a most recent common ancestor in the late 19th century, with several methods yielding most probable dates around 1890.[7][18] Authors speculated that an introduction of the former strain to the human population might have caused the epidemic.[7] In 2020, Danish researchers Lone Simonsen and Anders Gorm Pedersen similarly calculated that the human coronavirus OC43 had split from bovine coronavirus about 130 years before, approximately coinciding with the pandemic in 1889–1890. The calculation was based on genetic comparisons between bovine coronavirus and different strains of OC43. Their research had not been formally published as of November 2020.[19]
Pathology
Patterns of mortality
Unlike most influenza pandemics such as the 1918 flu, primarily elderly people died in 1889.[19] Due to generally lower standards of living, worse hygiene, and poorer standard of medicine, the proportion of vulnerable people was higher than in the modern world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic
https://youtu.be/8g18jFHCLXk
Germany: 87.9m doses administered
UK: 82.8m doses administered.
Now, in the words of Vinne Jones in Snatch: Fuck Off.
And yet they weren't. And very few people did argue that way.
I wonder why that is.
SARS-CoV-2 Restructures the Host Chromatin Architecture
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.453146v1.full.pdf
...Here, we mapped high-resolution landscapes of the 3D genome and epigenome in cells of human lung epithelial origin after acute SARS-CoV-2 infection, and our results revealed dramatic viral restructuring of the host chromatin. Hi-C 3.0 data uncovered significant defects of chromatin compartmentalization and TAD structures (Fig.4g). These are manifested at the compartment levels as wide-spread A weakening and A-B mixing, and at the TAD levels as global reduction of intra-TAD chromatin contacts. These 3D genome changes, to our knowledge, represent a unique and previously unappreciated rewiring of the mammalian 3D genome in pathological settings...
Philip was doing his usual world expert shit and as usual talking bollocks.
I don't always agree with you, but you used to have integrity. What happened to you?
People died much younger of all kinds of things in the 1950s. Many afflictions that are considered survivable now were a death sentence then. People were simply inured to it.
So the the Germans/Merkel/etc are a bunch of light weights....
And yet even the four worst flu seasons of the last 100 years have a far lower combined mortality figure than Covid..which would rather invalidate your point anyway.
UK - 68m people
Are you drunk?
UK jabs per 100 people: 121.96
Ger jabs per 100 people: 104.03
We've done 20% more jabs than they have done per capita. On a per capita basis we've done over 12 million jabs more than they have. 🤦♂️
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/22/uk-scientists-back-covid-boosters-as-study-finds-post-jab-falls-in-antibodies?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
If Germany had delivered 150m doses then that isn't a number we can achieve. 88m is. They have delivered more than we have, from a later start, despite the spin that the EU prevents countries from having an effective vax programme. Its bullshit.
I’m just not very surprised either.
You really do not seem to have grasped the entire point of what we have been doing all along.
While in the East - Saxony, Thuringia, etc. - they're only in the high 50s of adults with at least one jab.
One thing they have done that I believe will be shown to be absolutely correct: they've been mixing and matching products. Merkel, for example, had Astra-Zeneca followed by Moderna, and I think the mix-and-match strategy is going to result in meaningfully stronger immune responses.
As an aside: I think Germany will still make it to 82-83% of adults at a country-wide level. Simply, the East is only about 20% of the population, so even if they get stuck at 65% of adults, it doesn't pull overall numbers down that much.
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
"The immune system does not consist solely of antibodies"
etc
This is the problem with non-experts writing about science, notably in the media. The reinfection rate so far is miniscule, hence prior infection confers lengthy protection, and so will vaccination.
I mean, if you are stopping people from hugging dying relatives, racking up untold billions in debt and letting thousands of cancers go undiagnosed, it better not be for nothing, right?
Covid has to be serious, it absolutely has to be, for you and every vaxxer out there, If it isn't you have been the victim of the most gigantic con-job in history and are the greatest booby going.
And for someone as self regarding as you, that would be impossible to countenance.
And in one sense, that's what vax passports are. A validation of your choices. A snack for an obedient puppy.
Plus of course the JCVI have chosen to hold back second jabs until 8 weeks on the basis their data says that gives a better level of protection than giving it after three. I would have guessed that's a mistake personally, but they're the experts. Either way the UK has hit a demand wall and is 20% further ahead, 12 million jabs further ahead, per capita than Germany is.
If the UK had done 12 million fewer jabs we'd be at the same vaccination rate as Germany is.
So yes, you're just lying. Or don't understand statistics.
Apparently it is an "extremely offensive racist term"
If, as suggested above, we can't clear 70% vaccination AND it stops being effective that quickly, then we are in trouble. Far fewer will get the booster, which means we absolutely will have "your papers please" Vax passports rammed down our throats.
Bugger.
https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1418204877130551300?s=20
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-vaccinated-covid?country=CAN~FRA~DEU~JPN~GBR~USA
It will be interesting to see where tthe comparative stats per age group end up. My guess is that Germany will have a non-trivial problem with anti-vax, through probably less than France.
Cons 41%
Lab 34%
LDs 8%
https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1418201447661965313?s=20