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The developing empty shelves narrative could really damage Johnson and his government – politicalbet

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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,973
    DougSeal said:


    Hey PB! "Scotch experts"! After all this time, if we look very hard we may be able to find the joke TUD has been making a few times a day for forever!
    Yet here you are, responding away 'after all this time'.

    Actually twerps giving it some 'Scotch is whisky' chat is the perfect confirmation of Scotch expertise since outside of a pal who has lived in NYC for 20 years I've never heard a Scot order a Scotch in my puff.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203

    What do you think is the difference between the water you drink and tap water? On a meaningful scale?
    Cleaner and safer.

    Plus the Guardian is anti bottled water so being pro bottled water is good sense.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jun/01/should-i-stop-drinking-bottled-water
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    It's already got a 65,000% mark-up.
    I asked at the local supermarket in Cornwall on the weekend....

    In a complete surprise, soft drinks, beer, water, ice creams and ice have been flying off the shelves. Also anything vaguely BBQ'able.

    I will need to use 100% of the capacity of AWS to compute why this might be.

    Oh, and they still seemed to have plenty.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056

    I'm blaming auto-correct on my iPad.
    Poor workman who blames his tools.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    TOPPING said:

    What is the acceptable level of risk that you think you should bear to live your life.
    To get vaccinated is incredibly low level of risk.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    ydoethur said:

    Since you freely admit you could get vaccinated but choose not too, that is totally irrelevant.

    Indeed, since there are people who cannot get vaccinated, it is up to the rest of us to try and protect them by getting jabbed.

    Because the alternative is perpetual lockdown. Which you also claim to be against.

    I have to say I find you the most nauseating hypocrite on this site. And that’s in a field of stiff competition (Topping springs to mind). It’s not just that you’re a hypocrite and a liar, it’s the sheer nastiness with which you abuse other posters, as at 1.03, for pointing out your flaws.

    The fact you then whine about getting a ‘dog’s abuse’ is even worse. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.
    Well, at least we can live in hope.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,314

    People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
    As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.

    You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    Virus rocketing up in Northern Ireland, a ~ 70,000 UK equivalent day there.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,973
    kle4 said:

    But did she really believe it or was just talking things up? That might count as an acceptable political fib for sake of morale. Politicians often claim to think certain things will happen, then admit afterwards they knew they were f*cked.
    Well, we've had #Ruth4fm and #Jackson4fm, why spoil a tradition?
    #DRoss4fm it is.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,184

    Much worse than that, when you visit PB the site will automatically play a Radiohead song in the background for as long as you are on the site.
    Can I just say that PB without TSE is like eating pizza without the pineapple! :innocent:
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    Do you need an NHS number to "activate" and get the result of the "My Health Checked" PCR test you can buy in Boots for £65? (I know the data goes to the NHS, but I'm asking whether you need an NHS number, which requires of course that you are registered with the NHS, which not everyone is.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,299
    edited July 2021

    And Starmer's alternative vision? He engaged his big brain yesterday, it lasted 30 mins until it hit reality and he had to ditch it. Just test everybody every time they want to go out he said, it would be much easier and more effective than vaccine passports...

    I genuinely keep waiting for him to step up and start to provide some clear narrative about what he would do different. At the moment it is masks on trains and open a window.
    He proposed a lockdown as the 2nd wave was gearing up. Johnson ignores him because (i) the Telegraph and the Spectator aren't keen and (ii) he doesn't want it to look like Starmer is Captain Foresight, thus undermining the snappy new derisory nickname he's come up with. Upshot - loads die who otherwise wouldn't have. Johnson shrugs and moves on. It's government, Jim, but not as we know it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,674

    That Kwarteng interview was awful. Unlike Robert "the decision has nothing to do with who I sit next to at fundraising dinners: Jenrick, Kwazi is uncomfortable when openly lying.

    He knew that what he was saying was utter shit and couldn't hide it. They should send Jenrick out like Comical Ali as the press spokesperson all the time.
    Point of order it's Kwasi, not Kwazi. That's the second time I've noticed you misspelling. Hopefully just an error on your part.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    Pulpstar said:

    Virus rocketing up in Northern Ireland, a ~ 70,000 UK equivalent day there.

    Their lower level of vaccinations compared to the rest of the UK is not going to be helping the situation.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    edited July 2021

    Much worse than that, when you visit PB the site will automatically play a Radiohead song in the background for as long as you are on the site.
    Actually the plan is to bringing advertising back and to encourage visitors to remain Radiohead will be played whenever the screen doesn't have PB visible front and centre...

    (I'm joking and then realised I could write a browser plugin that did just that in about 5 minutes). A wonder if Radiohead is more bearable if 15 different windows are playing different tracks with different start times at the same time.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Here's an interesting thing.

    In the US, where guns and morons are common.... A common(ish) accident is the gun-that-was-unloaded-but-bang! Someone is playing around with a gun they think is unloaded, but someone else loaded it. They pull the trigger. Someone dies or gets injured.

    This seems to be a one in a million accident (literally).

    Yet, if I were to step into my garden and point the Holland & Holland at the neighbours and go "click" - well, I think that some here who are apparently blasé about risk would be screaming.

    Why is that? It's an interest thing to work out.....
    That's the difference between hazard (potential danger), risk (non-intentional probabilistic outcome) and threat (intentional outcome, known to perpetrator, not necessarily to target)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    That Kwarteng interview was awful. Unlike Robert "the decision has nothing to do with who I sit next to at fundraising dinners: Jenrick, Kwazi is uncomfortable when openly lying.

    He knew that what he was saying was utter shit and couldn't hide it. They should send Jenrick out like Comical Ali as the press spokesperson all the time.
    If the govt line is particularly unsustainable but they want it to hold they send for the Shapps.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited July 2021
    kinabalu said:

    He proposed a lockdown as the 2nd wave was gearing up. Johnson ignored him because (i) the Telegraph and the Spectator weren't keen and (ii) he didn't want it to look like Starmer was Captain Foresight, thus undermining the snappy new derisory nickname he'd come up with. Upshot - loads died who otherwise wouldn't have. Johnson shrugs and moves on. It's government, Jim, but not as we know it.
    No, he proposed a 2 week firebreak, which was based on a totally flawed model from the University of Warwick. He was trying Boris type cake-ism. We can have a bit of a lockdown, not for long, and that will fix it.

    If he had proposed a proper lockdown, I would have said absolutely. If he had proposed proper border controls over a year ago, I would have said, sensible chap, instead he waited until too late to call for them and even then it is all very fudgy, he still kinda of sort of wants an airbridge approach.

    Starmer has flunked it as every turn and that's why the Tories are still 9-10% up. If he had come out with very sensible suggestions ahead of time, he would be winning in the polls. Instead it has been left to the likes of Hunt and Tony Blair to be making sensible constructive criticisms of the government, complete with some solutions.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,177

    To get vaccinated is incredibly low level of risk.
    And yet, it is still you asking others to do something because you are worried. Wouldn't accepting the risk be the easier course?

    The reality is the vast majority are getting jabbed. If we had a real vaccine hesitancy problem, I'd be less sanguine. But we are probably going to be in the top 3 of largeish countries in the world for vax takeup. Maybe even top.

    Is it worth depriving others of liberty and putting enormous regulatory issues on to already hard up biz to tickle that up a tiny amount? I say no.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056

    Well, we've had #Ruth4fm and #Jackson4fm, why spoil a tradition?
    #DRoss4fm it is.
    That's the spirit.

    Though they might prefer to go with just Ross, Dross would be funnier.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203
    kle4 said:

    Poor workman who blames his tools.
    Harsh but fair.

    Actually I'm blaming this heat.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872

    Cleaner and safer.

    Plus the Guardian is anti bottled water so being pro bottled water is good sense.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jun/01/should-i-stop-drinking-bottled-water
    I find bottled water invaluable whilst running. I've tried carrying it cupped in my hands, but it soon spills out. ;)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322

    People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
    We are in danger of coming to the conclusion that vaccination has failed against delta. This is NOT THE CASE. Yes you can be double jabbed and still get covid, but chances are it will be mild (i.e. not death). Yes you can still shed virus, but likely less than without the vaccination. if we have accepted the idea of social distancing, masks and ventilation to reduce the chance of spread, well vaccination is another weapon to use. Too many seem to think in binary terms about vaccines - either works or not. Not the case.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    No, he proposed a flawed 2 week firebreak, which was based on a totally flawed model from the University of Warwick. He was trying Boris type cake-ism. We can have a bit of a lockdown, not for long, and that will fix it.

    If he had proposed a proper lockdown, I would have said absolutely. If he had proposed proper border controls over a year ago, I would have said, sensible chap, instead he waited until too late to call for them and even then it is all very fudgy, he still kinda of sort of wants an airbridge approach.
    The evidence on 2 week "firebreaks" in various countries is that it takes that long for the restrictions to begin to bite into the spread of the virus. So you lift the restrictions, again, just as they really begin to take effect.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Eagles, the heat is loathsome.

    I slept badly. Overslept, which is rare for me. Hot today.

    Yet it's been my most productive day probably of the month. I am unsure what to make of this.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited July 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Since you freely admit you could get vaccinated but choose not too, that is totally irrelevant.

    Indeed, since there are people who cannot get vaccinated, it is up to the rest of us to try and protect them by getting jabbed.

    Because the alternative is perpetual lockdown. Which you also claim to be against.

    I have to say I find you the most nauseating hypocrite on this site. And that’s in a field of stiff competition (Topping springs to mind). It’s not just that you’re a hypocrite and a liar, it’s the sheer nastiness with which you abuse other posters, as at 1.03, for pointing out your flaws.

    The fact you then whine about getting a ‘dog’s abuse’ is even worse. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.
    Let's face it, you got vaxxed to protect yourself and to get your own freedoms back, and you are in favour of vaccine passports to protect yourself and others in the club, mostly from getting bad cold from others, vaxxed or unvaxxed.

    The parading of your utterly false philanthropy for the 'can't be vaxxed' is, in my view is a prime example of the 'nauseating hypocrite' you dub me.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472
    TimT said:

    That's the difference between hazard (potential danger), risk (non-intentional probabilistic outcome) and threat (intentional outcome, known to perpetrator, not necessarily to target)
    Indeed. But it is interesting to see the risk perception - the risk of giving someone COVID and them getting a serious illness is comparable to playing with "unloaded" firearms, occasionally.....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Leon said:

    Anecdata on Skye accommodation. A friend of mine owns a handsome Croft on a tiny offshore island. He’s done it up in fine style and turned it into ultra-luxury self catering. Very very expensive. Despite the price he’s had excellent publicity and reviews - and now it is fully booked, winter and summer, until... 2023

    My ambition is to go to the southern end of the western isles - Uist, Barra, Eriskay. They sound dreamy
    Mmm. Perhaps fly in on the beach airport at Barra?

    I'd be tempted to double check the season and go for the blooming of the machair flowers.

    And the western beaches are astounding for their length. Not exactly Benidorm, mind. This is in my memory as a ood viewpoint -

    https://whaletrail.org/rubha-ardvule
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited July 2021

    The evidence on 2 week "firebreaks" in various countries is that it takes that long for the restrictions to begin to bite into the spread of the virus. So you lift the restrictions, again, just as they really begin to take effect.
    Yes we all know that, the likes of myself, MaxPB said exactly all this at the time of the pushing for this firebreak idea, that the model was horseshit and that we know behaviourally it won't work.

    It is also why the same scientists now said to the government you need to leave at least 5 weeks between changes in unlocking steps. You need that long for the effect to flow through.
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298

    Because drinking bottled water makes him feel superior to pondlife who use the tap?

    Its the i phone syndrome pay more for something inferior to feel superior.
    I bought an iPhone because it seemed the easiest way to get a smartphone while keeping to my rule of not knowingly allowing Google software to be installed on any of my equipment. Had I known it would be such a piece of crap, though - some of the ways it's crap I still find hard to believe! - I'd have found some other way of keeping to the rule.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    edited July 2021

    I find bottled water invaluable whilst running. I've tried carrying it cupped in my hands, but it soon spills out. ;)
    A camelbak would be de trop, I assume? Edsit: and also imply filling with the local water company's recyclings.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    Yes we all know that, the likes of myself, MaxPB said exactly all this at the time of the pushing for this firebreak idea, that the model was horseshit and that we know behaviourally it won't work.

    It is also why the same scientists now said to the government you need to leave at least 5 weeks between changes in unlocking steps. You need that long for the effect to flow through.
    I said the same at the time :-)

    Either do a longer lockdown or don't do it. The shorter lockdown just serves to damage lives in other ways.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,831

    What distinguishes this government from so many Conservative governments of the past is that this one doesn’t seem to do morality at all. One suspects they think that morality is for lefties. Which is just rubbish. Because Conservatism has always had a moral core, albeit a different one from that of the Left. It honours the implicit moral tone of communities, customs and institutions – monarchy, law, military, the family.

    But what do we have with this government? No one can say that Boris has ever made any great play of being constrained by morality, certainly not anything like a Judeo-Christian one. Perhaps he thinks that the air has gone out of this particular balloon. But if that’s the case, another one of the bulwarks of moral Conservativism has been dislodged. I wonder if he thinks that the sense of honour implicit in keeping one’s word is equally old fashioned. Green MP Caroline Lucas is right to be concerned that with Boris Johnson there has been a gradual “normalisation of lying to the house”. And this normalisation is highly corrosive of one of key institutions that Conservatives have traditionally respected: Parliament itself.

    I have discovered and nurtured my inner conservative since 2019. People like Roger Scruton have become central to how I look at the world. But the more conservative I become, the less I like the Government.

    They have forgotten the values of being conservative. And without those values, the Conservative Party is little more than a vessel for the personal ambitions of the depressingly self-entitled.

    https://unherd.com/2021/07/why-ill-never-vote-tory-again/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=9da8f3203d&mc_eid=836634e34b
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    edited July 2021

    Well, we've had #Ruth4fm and #Jackson4fm, why spoil a tradition?
    #DRoss4fm it is.
    Maybe getting ready for Trump-style accusations of 'We wuz robbed' at the election.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Here's an interesting thing.

    In the US, where guns and morons are common.... A common(ish) accident is the gun-that-was-unloaded-but-bang! Someone is playing around with a gun they think is unloaded, but someone else loaded it. They pull the trigger. Someone dies or gets injured.

    This seems to be a one in a million accident (literally).

    Yet, if I were to step into my garden and point the Holland & Holland at the neighbours and go "click" - well, I think that some here who are apparently blasé about risk would be screaming.

    Why is that? It's an interest thing to work out.....
    Risk vs benefit, there is no conceivable reward for doing the shotgun thing.

    There's a legal case whose name escapes me about an English bloke who killed someone with a revolver. He thought they fire and then revolve. It's the other way round. There was an empty chamber under the hammer, and a loaded one, one click anti clockwise. Messy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I said the same at the time :-)

    Either do a longer lockdown or don't do it. The shorter lockdown just serves to damage lives in other ways.
    Plus of course inevitably people have "last night of freedom" parties before the fortnight, and "hooray we beat Covid" parties after it, so its really counterproductive.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    I find bottled water invaluable whilst running. I've tried carrying it cupped in my hands, but it soon spills out. ;)
    You had hands to hold t' water? Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuxry

    In many actual scientific studies, there is far less crap in tap water than in many of the bottled water brands. Not to mention the chemicals leaching in from the cheapest possible plastics.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    Current top Scottish LTLA East Dunbartonshire 84,283 97% 66,085 76%
    Current top English LTLA Broadland 100,447 90.2% 82,483 74.1%
    Current lowest LTLA Westminster 141,521 55.6% 104,019 40.9%

    The update pushing everywhere to 2020 mid pop estimates today takes place - Scotland uses ONS and England NIMS right now I believe so I think a whole bunch of English LTLAs will shoot up the rankings.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203
    edited July 2021

    Mr. Eagles, the heat is loathsome.

    I slept badly. Overslept, which is rare for me. Hot today.

    Yet it's been my most productive day probably of the month. I am unsure what to make of this.

    I've overslept quite a few times this last week, a couple of times I was awoken by room cleaning staff.

    Have to say a certain genre of films have left with me unrealistic expectations of what would happen next.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited July 2021

    I said the same at the time :-)

    Either do a longer lockdown or don't do it. The shorter lockdown just serves to damage lives in other ways.
    There has been little to no evidence that Starmer really has any original solutions. Hunt correctly identified issues with key workers kids, and that schools needed to stay open for them, and that we needed to stop care home visits. Blair identified that given vaccine supply was tight, going for a longer period between doses might be a better strategy.

    Starmer response so far has always been government response is shit, they need to spend even more money, no eyewatering amount is enough, and.....tumbleweed.

    The smarter among us could see having your borders open from last March was a dumb idea. Airbridge was an even dumber idea....instead Starmer wibbles about why is this country in this tier, rather than that tier. No, airbridges don't work period....
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,314

    I am not asking for your sympathy or special treatment. IF you want I would contract out of NHS treatment and take my tax money with me.

    All I am asking for is the return of liberties I had for most of my life and regard as rights. You want those rights denied on the spurious premise that they will keep you 'safe'.

    But it doesn't work like that does it. When you get knocked down by a bus the ambulance doesn't turn up and the paramedic go 'Oh it's Contrarian, we will just leave him there to bleed to death'. So you can't do that can you?

    And anyway this isn't just for you. You also don't have the freedom to drive on the right hand side of the road or do you think you should also have that freedom. How about red lights? Voluntary?

    I'm sorry but selfish bastard are the only words that seem to fit
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kjh said:

    As I said a prat. Yes they can but just like all vaccines if you maximise the number of vaccinated it reduces the amount of virus in the population making it much safer for those not vaccinated. We still get measles and mumps but the numbers are low so it generally protects those unvaccinated. As the number of unvaccinated increases we get outbreaks.

    You and your kind are making the lockdown last longer and are killing people because of you stupidity.
    Wow me and my 'kind'

    I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.

    Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    Scott_xP said:
    Translation: they haven't a clue what they're doing, so stock up while it lasts. Or something.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,526


    Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.

    Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472
    IshmaelZ said:

    Risk vs benefit, there is no conceivable reward for doing the shotgun thing.

    There's a legal case whose name escapes me about an English bloke who killed someone with a revolver. He thought they fire and then revolve. It's the other way round. There was an empty chamber under the hammer, and a loaded one, one click anti clockwise. Messy.
    BBBBBBBut it's my right to point firearms at people and go "click" randomly........ Or are you one of those FascistNannyStateCommunistsLibtards?

    There is next to no conceivable benefit from *not* having a COVID vaccination.

    As to the revolver thing - well, there is one simple truth.

    There is no such thing as an unloaded gun. If you handle firearms with that rule, then that class of stupid accident doesn't happen.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,526
    Scott_xP said:

    As long as you are not required to show a Radiohead tattoo
    That IS the new QR code.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284
    .

    Wow me and my 'kind'

    I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.

    Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
    Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,912

    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    How and why have things changed in that area?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    Rees-Mogg has found himself under fire for an off-the-cuff use of the phrase “yellow peril” in the Commons this afternoon. Labour MP Sarah Owen was the first to spot the phrase, tweeting “It is 2021 not 1821!”. Despite the fact the Tories have used the jokey attack line in reference to the LibDems for years, shadow leader Thangam Debbonaire made a point of order 30 minutes later, accusing Rees-Mogg of using an “extremely offensive racist term”.

    https://order-order.com/2021/07/22/labour-libdems-absurd-rees-mogg-race-row/

    The yellow peril really aren't making it easy for people to vote for them....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    To get vaccinated is incredibly low level of risk.
    Not my point (apart from the fact that it is not zero risk).

    What is the acceptable level of risk that *you* think you should bear to live your life.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
    The facts, IIRC, were that the EU terms for joining the EU vaccination scheme were

    - no representation on the planning body for vaccine purchase.
    - no input on where the vaccines would be made.
    - no input on the vaccine distribution - just get given what you are allocated.
    - give us your money.

    If that is correct, then it was an offer designed to be refused.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284

    Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
    Per capita?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751

    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Why would anyone want to drink bottled water? Cows and sheep piss and shit on it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kjh said:

    But it doesn't work like that does it. When you get knocked down by a bus the ambulance doesn't turn up and the paramedic go 'Oh it's Contrarian, we will just leave him there to bleed to death'. So you can't do that can you?

    And anyway this isn't just for you. You also don't have the freedom to drive on the right hand side of the road or do you think you should also have that freedom. How about red lights? Voluntary?

    I'm sorry but selfish bastard are the only words that seem to fit
    I am not asking for the freedom to drive on the right or through red lights. And if the NHS wants to bill me when I have recovered from being knocked down, I will pay.

    The government wants to keep all the obligations it imposed on us before covid struck (indeed it wants to increase them) but it does not want to return the freedoms that were the corollary.

    I want the old settlement. That is all.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839

    Harsh but fair.

    Actually I'm blaming this heat.
    It is so hot that my front and back doors have actually jammed. Open, but still jammed.

    At least, I’m hoping it’s the heat and not a problem with the hinges.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Out and about alert.

    Last night I went into Tescos (which I only did as I nearby anyway and needed their petrol). About 70% masked, but the ones which weren't were all 'younger' including a big bunch of 30odd year old guys.

    This lunchtime, was in Waitrose (which I shop at 95% of the time), everyone masked.

    Guess which I felt a lot more comfortable in....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    Andy_JS said:

    How and why have things changed in that area?
    I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    edited July 2021


    Wow me and my 'kind'

    I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.

    Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.


    Mr Dancer, I am lucky in that I am close to retirement and so can afford to lose my job if I really want to make a stand. I can I guess just drop off the radar and hope the government just forgets me.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html

    Death rate ratio compared to 18 - 29:

    50-64 years old 35x
    65-74 years old 95x

    Your honour no further questions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872

    You had hands to hold t' water? Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuxry

    In many actual scientific studies, there is far less crap in tap water than in many of the bottled water brands. Not to mention the chemicals leaching in from the cheapest possible plastics.
    I use (or used to, before the Pox) Platypus hydration bags whilst walking. Chemicals leaching from the plastic is the least of my worries if I don't keep them clean. I can get some interesting taste from black mould, though. ;)

    (Hint and tip: after use, wash them thoroughly and keep them in the freezer. It stops the mould developing.)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,314

    Wow me and my 'kind'

    I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.

    Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
    Yep your kind.

    What is the difference between covid and the first 3 on the list. For most people they are harmless. I had all 3 as a child. We do it to protect those for whom it is dangerous. Yet you say obviously! How?

    And how on earth do you stay away from those who can't be vaxed. Do you want them to carry a notice around with them?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    Scott_xP said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, UK exports in May were at a 16 month high with exports to the EU increasing by 8.8%. But, whatever.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/exports#:~:text=United Kingdom Exports E
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,674
    TOPPING said:

    Not my point (apart from the fact that it is not zero risk).

    What is the acceptable level of risk that *you* think you should bear to live your life.
    It's a lower risk to be vaccinated than it is to get COVID. Even when taking into account the chance of actually getting COVID vs 100% of the tiny risks involved with being vaccinated.

    If someone is saying they aren't going to get vaccinated because of a balance of risk approach then they need to run their numbers again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613
    DavidL said:

    Why would anyone want to drink bottled water? Cows and sheep piss and shit on it.
    Er, depends on the recharge rate. You might be talking about different breeds from today.

    They most certainly do in my local tap water. And it's a lot fresher there, so to speak.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    .

    Isn't it a bit inconsistent to support total vaccination for measles, but only partial vaccination for covid?
    I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    Out and about alert.

    Last night I went into Tescos (which I only did as I nearby anyway and needed their petrol). About 70% masked, but the ones which weren't were all 'younger' including a big bunch of 30odd year old guys.

    This lunchtime, was in Waitrose (which I shop at 95% of the time), everyone masked.

    Guess which I felt a lot more comfortable in....

    Yeah. You need to jolt yourself out of that state. It's not healthy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,613

    I use (or used to, before the Pox) Platypus hydration bags whilst walking. Chemicals leaching from the plastic is the least of my worries if I don't keep them clean. I can get some interesting taste from black mould, though. ;)

    (Hint and tip: after use, wash them thoroughly and keep them in the freezer. It stops the mould developing.)
    Eeeew.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203
    DavidL said:

    Meanwhile, in the real world, UK exports in May were at a 16 month high with exports to the EU increasing by 8.8%. But, whatever.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/exports#:~:text=United Kingdom Exports E
    A sixteen month high?

    Trying to work out if something happened in circa February 2020 that might have altered things?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,284

    I don;t think so. because as far as I can see these diseases differ radically in the way they affect people.
    Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,303
    Mr. Urquhart, racism's a popular category in the Oppression Olympics.

    Which is pretty harmful as actual racism is wretched and should be taken very seriously, rather than diluted by throwing the accusation willy-nilly.

    Anyway, I have decided I've sweated enough and am off before I turn into a piece of cheese. Play nicely, everyone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737

    Can I just say that PB without TSE is like eating pizza without the pineapple! :innocent:
    We can do better than that.

    PB sans TSE is like Tequila without the worm.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839

    Let's face it, you got vaxxed to protect yourself and to get your own freedoms back, and you are in favour of vaccine passports to protect yourself and others in the club, mostly from getting bad cold from others, vaxxed or unvaxxed.

    The parading of your utterly false philanthropy for the 'can't be vaxxed' is, in my view is a prime example of the 'nauseating hypocrite' you dub me.
    I’m not totally sure what this barely coherent post means. I’m starting to think I was a bit generous a while back in saying you had roughly average intelligence. But I will have a guess.

    Yes, I got vaxxed so we could unlock. That was the whole point. I am also in a key job and vulnerable to infection, but that wasn’t the deciding point.

    Apparently, you don’t want us to unlock. Which is strange given how much time you’ve spent ranting and wailing about lockdown.

    As for your last paragraph, we come back to the ‘dog’s abuse’ you dish out but can’t take. You know it’s a lie, and yet you go with it. You don’t care about anyone except yourself. Certainly you don’t care about our freedoms.

    In words so simple hopefully even you can understand it:

    It’s your right to be opposed to vaccines.

    It’s your right to be opposed to lockdowns.

    But if you don’t get the first, we’ll keep having the second. That’s not a question of rights, but of practicalities.

    So either make your choice or stop whining.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,959
    edited July 2021
    Change of tune from the Graudaian...

    Clarkson’s Farm review – Jeremy the ignoramus rides again...1 Star
    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/jun/11/clarksons-farm-review-jeremy-the-ignoramus-rides-again


    The best thing Jeremy’s done: why I can’t wait for more Clarkson’s Farm
    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/jul/22/clarksons-farm-best-thing-jeremy-clarkson-has-done-amazon
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,203
    ydoethur said:

    It is so hot that my front and back doors have actually jammed. Open, but still jammed.

    At least, I’m hoping it’s the heat and not a problem with the hinges.
    You know I'm properly suffering from this heat when I cannot make a blatant innuendo about the time I jammed someone's back door.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751

    A sixteen month high?

    Trying to work out if something happened in circa February 2020 that might have altered things?
    Indeed. And anyone who can seriously suggest that their model has accounted for that little local difficulty has got an agenda to sell you. I think in the case of the Centre for European Reform that agenda is pretty self evident.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    TOPPING said:

    Yeah. You need to jolt yourself out of that state. It's not healthy.
    Maybe, the odd thing is that I'm going to the pub tonight and I'll sitting with people I know happily unmasked.

    The fear of the stranger is there and it's irrational, but I expect the majority of people feel like I feel.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    MaxPB said:

    It's a lower risk to be vaccinated than it is to get COVID. Even when taking into account the chance of actually getting COVID vs 100% of the tiny risks involved with being vaccinated.

    If someone is saying they aren't going to get vaccinated because of a balance of risk approach then they need to run their numbers again.
    Yep the CDC has ran the numbers and they come out strongly in favour for the even the most marginal group, 12 - 17 year old boys.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,472

    I use (or used to, before the Pox) Platypus hydration bags whilst walking. Chemicals leaching from the plastic is the least of my worries if I don't keep them clean. I can get some interesting taste from black mould, though. ;)

    (Hint and tip: after use, wash them thoroughly and keep them in the freezer. It stops the mould developing.)
    An American chap I worked with once, was an old hand at desert work. He used water bags/pouches that had liners that were H2O2 compatible. So, he'd pour H2O2 in, swill it around, and drain, then close it up as is. Apparently there would be enough peroxide left inside to kill any bugs. And a simple rinse out before filling was all that was required...
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303

    Yet here you are, responding away 'after all this time'.

    Actually twerps giving it some 'Scotch is whisky' chat is the perfect confirmation of Scotch expertise since outside of a pal who has lived in NYC for 20 years I've never heard a Scot order a Scotch in my puff.
    All Blackbush fans you mean?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056

    Mr. Eagles, the heat is loathsome.

    I slept badly. Overslept, which is rare for me. Hot today.

    Yet it's been my most productive day probably of the month. I am unsure what to make of this.

    Yes , bizarrely I've gotten much less sleep yet had way more energy than usual since Saturday.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,526
    MaxPB said:

    Point of order it's Kwasi, not Kwazi. That's the second time I've noticed you misspelling. Hopefully just an error on your part.
    I guessed the spelling and had it autocorrected. Happy to use Kwasi going forward when describing how profoundly embarrassed he looked on live TV having to lie through his teeth.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,322

    Wow me and my 'kind'

    I am 100% behind vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, TB and Polio. Obviously. And I am in favour of vaccination of the vulnerable against covid. Obviously. I am even in favour of making sure I stay away from the 'can't be vaxxed' if that is possible.

    Other than that, we should be able to make our own decisions and go about our lives.
    Why can't you see that you might be vulnerable to covid? Its a fecking lottery. People in the their 20's HAVE DIED, without pre-existing conditions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    Carnyx said:

    Er, depends on the recharge rate. You might be talking about different breeds from today.

    They most certainly do in my local tap water. And it's a lot fresher there, so to speak.
    I don't think that there is any water on this planet that has not been urine at some point. Maybe at the bottom of the Antarctica ice shelf. Suggesting that tap water and bottled water is materially different in this respect is a demonstration of an excess of funds in need of purging.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Carnyx said:

    I suspect double track roads and the Skye bridges did not help. But I'll be interested to see SD's perceptions.
    NC500. May camels piss on the bones of the inventor of it. That, and campervan things.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056
    ydoethur said:

    It is so hot that my front and back doors have actually jammed. Open, but still jammed.

    At least, I’m hoping it’s the heat and not a problem with the hinges.
    Happens to mine in even moderate heat when they're hit by the sun. Don't tell a fireman and itll be fine.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,737
    edited July 2021

    Can I ask why that would be? The EU Vaccine scheme would not have stopped us from creating the Oxford / AZ vaccine. Nor has the EU vaccine scheme has not stopped Germany from vaccinating more people than we have. As always, the big bad EU has far less control than alleged.
    You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.

    Have you seen the bootlicking letter that they made the four EU Health Ministers' - the ones who tried to get started on dealing with the pandemic whilst EuCo was twiddling its thumbs - sign when the EU took over? That's the self-regarding style of the place. Followed by vaccine faceplant.








  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,056
    They've been setting us up for that for months.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,526

    I've overslept quite a few times this last week, a couple of times I was awoken by room cleaning staff.

    Have to say a certain genre of films have left with me unrealistic expectations of what would happen next.
    Confessions of a Hotel Room Cleaner with Robin Asquith?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,556

    Maybe, the odd thing is that I'm going to the pub tonight and I'll sitting with people I know happily unmasked.

    The fear of the stranger is there and it's irrational, but I expect the majority of people feel like I feel.
    Absolutely. It is, imo, super unhealthy for many reasons.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,839
    edited July 2021
    RobD said:

    Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
    Well, if I understand the figures correctly - which given I am not a biologist still less an epidemiologist I may not - measles actually kills around 530,000 a year globally.

    Equally, on the most optimistic estimates Covid has killed around eight times that in not much longer a time span.

    That fits with a like-for-like CFR of around 0.1% for measles and around 3-4% for Covid, allowing for similar transmission.

    I think the problem is Contrarian has got it into his head that Covid is a slightly more virulent form of the common cold. Which it certainly isn’t. In some people it bears a superficial resemblance to a cold - headaches, dizziness, coughing, temperature - but common colds do not attack the circulatory system or internal organs.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,004
    kle4 said:

    They've been setting us up for that for months.
    I think protection will last longer the younger you are. That said I'm not saying no to a booster, I think they'll be JCVI 50+ though - whereas the USA will probably just run through the entire (willing) population again.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,399
    IshmaelZ said:

    NC500. May camels piss on the bones of the inventor of it. That, and campervan things.
    What I don't get is the how people look at This is a route for drivers and go let's hire a campervan with the handling of a arthritic whale....
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,592
    Is this not just the same point about T-cells again - if you really want active anti-bodies in the blood you're going to need 3 jabs a year forever, but it's far from clear the actual vaccine efficacy mirrors the presence of those antibodies.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,872
    Carnyx said:

    Eeeew.
    It can develop remarkably quickly, despite the antibacterial coatings. When backpacking, I always carry a spare Platypus in my pack - to store water if I'm unsure when I can next get it. One hot trip in Wales, I used the Platypus, dried it out as best I could, and put it back into the bottom of my pack. A few days later I got it out, and the pipe was black with mould. It soon ended up in the nearest bin.

    Another anecdote: I once went to fill my water bottle from a stream (the Allt Carnach, above Sourlies). I filled the bottle, drunk from the stream, and immediately discovered some naked teenage German venture scouts a few metres above me, resting in the stream. The advice is to check upstream for dead sheep before getting water; never naked boys!

    (It was this walk; obviously no piccies of the scouts... http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2003/501.php )
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,216
    Shame you edited that, @ydoethur .
    "Underpants the figures.." was a splendid autotypo.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    RobD said:

    Yes, covid kills far more people. Measles deaths were a few hundred per year before vaccination.
    No more people die with covid.

    That is generally because they are, on average, 82 with two co-morbidities. For measles, one of the groups most at risk is children under 5. And so, of course, vaccinate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,751
    MattW said:

    You ignore the poisonous Brussels' politics around anything in the EU, which would very likely have stopped it.

    Have you seen the bootlicking letter that they made the four EU Health Ministers' - the ones who tried to get started on dealing with the pandemic whilst EuCo was twiddling its thumbs - sign when the EU took over? That's the self-regarding style of the place. Followed by vaccine faceplant.








    Its really disappointing that the signatures are not in blood.
This discussion has been closed.