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The developing empty shelves narrative could really damage Johnson and his government – politicalbet

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  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,186

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Mike compares to the year 2000 but this is starting to remind me more of the winter of discontent in 1978/9.

    Yes, that’s exactly what I thought when I saw Mike’s comparison, and incidentally when I read Sean’s bleak London evening walk report: this is the new Winter of Discontent. I’m old enough to remember bits of that -the power cuts and the rubbish piling up uncollected on the streets - but most aren’t.
    alex_ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Mexico reports 15,198 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since January, and 397 new deaths

    Delta is gonna fuck the world. Not an ideal time to hold the Olympic Games, inter alia

    ‘Mayo Clinic expert warns delta variant will infect everyone who is not immune hill.cm/v3VDvcY’

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1418010927325138945?s=21
    I think history is going to give a poor verdict on these games. It’ll earn the worst reputation since Berlin 36.

    In retrospect the Euros should have been cancelled too, and the formula one, and the Tour de France and many other events. The coming football season is bound to be a superspreader opportunity.
    A lot of people had their spirits raised by the football tournament. It would have been grim without it.
    But it just prolonged the pandemic. The Wembley scenes were horrific, and folk spread the virus all over the place.

    Covid19 has just proved once again that the human race can be incredibly stupid and we never learn from our mistakes. God help us if a *proper* nasty disease ever hits: it’ll knock us back to the Middle Ages. Covid19 could come to be seen as a little cuddly beast in comparison.
    What basis is there for saying it “prolonged” the pandemic? If anything it quite likely accelerated it. What the scientists/govt won’t say amid all the discussions about isolation/pingdemic etc, is that Govt policy is de facto for Covid to rush through the population as rapidly as possible (as long as the NHS can, just about, cope). If Delta can’t be stopped then suppression=prolonging.
    You are assuming that Delta is the final variant.
    Just wait until we get the Omega variant. :scream:
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,934
    edited July 2021
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas
    Anyone qualified writing those neighbourhood plans?

    No. That's the point. It is residents. The plan then has to be put to a local referendum.

    Then again, on planning/development, plenty of times the Plan is overridden in favour of allowing development to go ahead.
    And that's my entire point. You send people off without a clue about what is possible, what is plausible and how to identify where you want to be in 5 years time and instead they talk about restoring old buildings and similar things.

    RochdalePioneer has it right here, parish councils aren't fit for purpose.

    Oh and as an example - Barnard Castle's Town council is heading towards bankruptcy because https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19197857.barnard-castle-town-council-ordered-pay-55-000-unfairly-dismissed-clerk/
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Today's cases

    Looking very good - sub 50,621
    Needs more data 50,621 to 70,286
    Yesterday's good numbers were highly likely a blip - over 70,286
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    It's forecast to be thirty degrees today in this tropical hell-hole that is the North-west. If I go out at all, it will be at midday with a mad dog.

    It feels like 1976, and I worked in London then.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,887
    To be clear, I didn’t say ‘society is about to collapse’, I said ‘another 12-18 month cycle of lockdowns, infection, fear, variants and death will lead to total societal collapse’, so please don’t accuse me of ‘doom mongering’
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930
    alex_ said:

    Chairman of the RFL on R4 giving Australia/NZ both barrels - how come other Australian & NZ sportsmen are competing in the UK (Rugby & Cricket)?

    If it's safe for them, why not Rugby League?

    Seems unlikely, but a more responsible management at the Antipodean RL's?

    Or is it more difficult to corral RL players?
    Personally suspect it's just that the RL World Cup, and in fact the wider international game really isn't seen as that important
    It's the local RL authorities who made the decision. No suggestion they were leant on by Govt.

    When I went to live in Lancashire I'd never seen League, only Union, which I'd played at school. Soon realised that League was a better version of the game, and much faster. Now, with the recent rule changes it's faster still, and much more entertaining than Union.
    Still like to see Wales win at Union, though!
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,186

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges.
    So does ours. Which was more than the Borough Council, where we used to live did.
    My experience of Town / Parish councils isn't good. Was elected onto Thornaby for 4 years and it is a lunatic asylum sinking all the town's money into restoring a grand Victorian town hall with no business plan and a taxpayer funded magazine whose opening paragraph on the boundary commission proposals complains about the "annexation" of the town. Neighbouring Yarm has rival independent groups who literally fight in the council chamber. Neighbouring Eaglescliffe keeps getting censured for egregiously bad governance...
    You needed Jackie Weaver!
    The problem is governance - there isn't any. Since the Standards Board was abolished its up to the big council to try and police the local council and they have no teeth. I know of a dossier of evidence being taken to big council's CEO and then the police. Not even looked at.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,143
    Roger said:

    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

    Catchy post with a strong central point. Here's OJ musing on similar lines but in more of an OJ than a Roger way -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/cummings-england-political-westminster-elite
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Some nice stills....AKA After Boris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiWomXklfv8
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    Is that the same Sweden that never had mandatory mask wearing?
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    And the PC precept is not capped....so tax, tax, tax, and spend, spend, spend!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,887

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    You sound exactly like my smug family in Cornwall. So I’m not sure this is an EU thing, to be honest
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,934
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
  • Options
    Just been for a warm run, really in this kind of heat I don't want to be running past about 10AM, just too hot
  • Options
    northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,504
    Taz said:

    ‘OFFICIAL UK BREXIT POLICY
    per Kwasi Kwarteng:

    ▪️ We had no idea what Brexit would do.
    ▪️ Remainers may have been right but they weren't sure, so how could we know.🤷🏿‍♂️
    ▪️ The deal we sold to voters as oven-ready was designed to be vomited back up.

    @KwasiKwarteng you're a disgrace’

    https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1418118585126461443?s=21

    Lol

    That Femi Chap is a grade A bellend.

    Have you signed up,to his patreon ? 😂👍😂😂
    Oooh no, should I???!!!! 😂😂😂🤪🤪🤪🤪⭐️⭐️⭐️💦💦💦💦
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges.
    So does ours. Which was more than the Borough Council, where we used to live did.
    My experience of Town / Parish councils isn't good. Was elected onto Thornaby for 4 years and it is a lunatic asylum sinking all the town's money into restoring a grand Victorian town hall with no business plan and a taxpayer funded magazine whose opening paragraph on the boundary commission proposals complains about the "annexation" of the town. Neighbouring Yarm has rival independent groups who literally fight in the council chamber. Neighbouring Eaglescliffe keeps getting censured for egregiously bad governance...
    You needed Jackie Weaver!
    The problem is governance - there isn't any. Since the Standards Board was abolished its up to the big council to try and police the local council and they have no teeth. I know of a dossier of evidence being taken to big council's CEO and then the police. Not even looked at.
    We had a situation some years ago where, at election time, most, if not all the current Parish Councillors had, for various reasons, had had enough.
    So, allegedly, a pack of nomination forms was taken into the Con Club one evening and enough nomination papers signed to fill the known vacancies and, because there weren't any other candidates, they were all elected.
    It was a bit of a shambles, but at least, because one of the newcomers had the necessary expertise and contacts we've got an efficient CCTV system in the town centre and car park.
    Whether, of course, that's entirely a good thing is a different matter.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,365

    alex_ said:

    Chairman of the RFL on R4 giving Australia/NZ both barrels - how come other Australian & NZ sportsmen are competing in the UK (Rugby & Cricket)?

    If it's safe for them, why not Rugby League?

    Seems unlikely, but a more responsible management at the Antipodean RL's?

    Or is it more difficult to corral RL players?
    Personally suspect it's just that the RL World Cup, and in fact the wider international game really isn't seen as that important
    It's the local RL authorities who made the decision. No suggestion they were leant on by Govt.

    When I went to live in Lancashire I'd never seen League, only Union, which I'd played at school. Soon realised that League was a better version of the game, and much faster. Now, with the recent rule changes it's faster still, and much more entertaining than Union.
    Still like to see Wales win at Union, though!
    What?!
    I'm from Stockport - union country, but only just. League is a fine sport, but a bit limited and repetitive - basically a less good version of union. We used to play league as a training exercise to work on running lines (which is what you really need to get right in league, because there is absolutely no space) and tackling (which is more conditioning really - tackling is a slightly different skill in league than in union).
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,934
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

    Catchy post with a strong central point. Here's OJ musing on similar lines but in more of an OJ than a Roger way -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/cummings-england-political-westminster-elite
    One thing I've picked up over the years, (from Cummings, Trump and elsewhere) is if you are going to make stuff up in an ad / post leave other things to argue about.

    Turkey joining the EU and the £350m a week are great examples of this. There is enough element of truth in it that even if they argue the point (it's £350m total but we get £200m back) it just re-enforces the core message.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903

    Just been for a warm run, really in this kind of heat I don't want to be running past about 10AM, just too hot

    Going for one later. Like running in a turkish bath :D
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited July 2021
    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    And the PC precept is not capped....so tax, tax, tax, and spend, spend, spend!
    Which would be the temptation once the parish and town council effectively becomes the council most people associate with their area if district councils are scrapped in favour of unitary councils based in a town or cathedral city maybe over half an hour away by car
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Very creative of OGH to somehow conflate Brexit with empty shelves. I wonder how many more Britons would have died from covid if we had remained in rge EU?

    Bonkers. Quite literally bonkers.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,075

    Taz said:

    ‘OFFICIAL UK BREXIT POLICY
    per Kwasi Kwarteng:

    ▪️ We had no idea what Brexit would do.
    ▪️ Remainers may have been right but they weren't sure, so how could we know.🤷🏿‍♂️
    ▪️ The deal we sold to voters as oven-ready was designed to be vomited back up.

    @KwasiKwarteng you're a disgrace’

    https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1418118585126461443?s=21

    Lol

    That Femi Chap is a grade A bellend.

    Have you signed up,to his patreon ? 😂👍😂😂
    Oooh no, should I???!!!! 😂😂😂🤪🤪🤪🤪⭐️⭐️⭐️💦💦💦💦

    Fill your boots. There is no content. He just needs the money to live on until he gets more TV slots.


    https://www.patreon.com/femi_sorry
  • Options
    CandyCandy Posts: 51
    Roger said:

    When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    You know what the small print was, right?

    In 2015 the EU re-opened Turkey's EU accession, in return for Turkey keeping some of the migrants on Turkish soil.

    There was even a joint statement on it issued in March 2016, just a few months before the ref:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-towards-a-new-policy-on-migration/file-eu-turkey-statement-action-plan

    It has everything in that statement, including the removal of visa control on Turks - direct quote "The fulfilment of the visa liberalisation roadmap will be accelerated with a view to lifting the visa requirements for Turkish citizens at the latest by the end of June 2016".

    It even says, "The accession process will be re-energised, with Chapter 33 opened during the Dutch Presidency of the Council of the European Union and preparatory work on the opening of other chapters to continue at an accelerated pace".

    So this wasn't about "some comments about Turkey joining in the past". It was very much in the present.

    Now of course the EU might have been fibbing to the Turks in order to persuade the Turks to keep the migrants on their soil.

    Where Vote Leave was clever was simply pointing out that the EU had re-opened talks with the Turks and daring Cameron, Merkel and co to say, "No, no, it's not true, Turkey is not going to join, we were just fibbing to manipulate them into helping with the Syrian migrants"

    And of course they couldn't say that. So the EU was hoist on their own petard for issuing an official communique with the Turks, which they now claim was a tissue of fibs...

    Question: did the EU even consult Cameron before issuing this statement in March 2016 as the ref campaign got underway? Or did Merkel as usual do her own thing without consulting anyone?
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Also the best whisky!
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,934
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,121
    edited July 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
    In pb.com electoral news regular viewers of the Dura Ace Show will remember that Mrs DA encouraged me to run for the parish council. I suspect to get me out of the house on an evening. The tory dropped dead during the campaign and the lib dem smelt of piss and had dementia so I was duly elected with a thumping 111 votes on a platform of Eco Anarchism.

    I have not attended any meetings or replied to or otherwise acknowledged a single piece of correspondence. That's anarchism.
    You remind me of the first aider at Aber walking club who was elected despite a promise in his manifesto that he would never, ever administer first aid, and that if you felt him touching you after an accident, he was just looking for your money.

    He still won in a landslide.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    Devon is identical, but with affordable drink and the SailGP circuit racing to watch in Plymouth over the w/e

    How's that £11.50 for a small tin of lager thing working out?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930
    Cookie said:

    alex_ said:

    Chairman of the RFL on R4 giving Australia/NZ both barrels - how come other Australian & NZ sportsmen are competing in the UK (Rugby & Cricket)?

    If it's safe for them, why not Rugby League?

    Seems unlikely, but a more responsible management at the Antipodean RL's?

    Or is it more difficult to corral RL players?
    Personally suspect it's just that the RL World Cup, and in fact the wider international game really isn't seen as that important
    It's the local RL authorities who made the decision. No suggestion they were leant on by Govt.

    When I went to live in Lancashire I'd never seen League, only Union, which I'd played at school. Soon realised that League was a better version of the game, and much faster. Now, with the recent rule changes it's faster still, and much more entertaining than Union.
    Still like to see Wales win at Union, though!
    What?!
    I'm from Stockport - union country, but only just. League is a fine sport, but a bit limited and repetitive - basically a less good version of union. We used to play league as a training exercise to work on running lines (which is what you really need to get right in league, because there is absolutely no space) and tackling (which is more conditioning really - tackling is a slightly different skill in league than in union).
    Wow. When I were a lad, merely mentioning League in Union circles was enough to get you barred for life.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,186

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges.
    So does ours. Which was more than the Borough Council, where we used to live did.
    My experience of Town / Parish councils isn't good. Was elected onto Thornaby for 4 years and it is a lunatic asylum sinking all the town's money into restoring a grand Victorian town hall with no business plan and a taxpayer funded magazine whose opening paragraph on the boundary commission proposals complains about the "annexation" of the town. Neighbouring Yarm has rival independent groups who literally fight in the council chamber. Neighbouring Eaglescliffe keeps getting censured for egregiously bad governance...
    You needed Jackie Weaver!
    The problem is governance - there isn't any. Since the Standards Board was abolished its up to the big council to try and police the local council and they have no teeth. I know of a dossier of evidence being taken to big council's CEO and then the police. Not even looked at.
    We had a situation some years ago where, at election time, most, if not all the current Parish Councillors had, for various reasons, had had enough.
    So, allegedly, a pack of nomination forms was taken into the Con Club one evening and enough nomination papers signed to fill the known vacancies and, because there weren't any other candidates, they were all elected.
    It was a bit of a shambles, but at least, because one of the newcomers had the necessary expertise and contacts we've got an efficient CCTV system in the town centre and car park.
    Whether, of course, that's entirely a good thing is a different matter.
    Most of the Town Councils in the Stockton-on-Tees area are "elected" that way. We decided to contest Thornaby in 2015 and got 5 of us onto a council which had been 100% independent for the previous 8 years. As they just outvoted us on everything and used the taxpayer-funded quarterly council magazine to print their propaganda we didn't see the point in running in 2019.

    All 13 councillors independent again, selected by the Mayor, no election. Spending public money and if the public turn up to meetings to ask questions they get verbal abuse and thrown out. As for "Jackie Weaver" we did get the Local Government Association to have a look, sending another town clerk into a meeting as a member of the public. Asked a question, questioned the Mayor's massive misread of his statutory powers., verbally abused, thrown out AND more abusive comments printed in the taxpayer funded magazine!

    Local government...
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,971
    Mr. (Miss?) Candy, welcome to PB.

    On a related note, the migrant crisis was unlucky for Cameron as it prompted him to call the referendum sooner than later for fear it'd get worse. A later call might have changed things.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Perhaps relatedly, after my drinks I walked home from Highgate to Camden, as the night is so beautiful and warm (and it is all downhill)

    Wow, north London feels edgy, sketchy and often deserted. It feels like it did in the early 1980s. Scruffy, sooty, silent, noisy, very un-chic, it is like 40 years of gentrification have been reversed in one and a half years of plague

    The one upside is the sense of youthfulness. You only see young people, apart from a few old school drinkers in the pubs

    Was dirt quiet up here too. I reckon the joy of some decent weather has been overtaken by a general lack of sleep.

    Though most aren't awakened by a fucking drum machine!!!!
    That drum machine is irritating you a bit. How long till you accidentally step on it 10 or 20 times.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,887
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
    In pb.com electoral news regular viewers of the Dura Ace Show will remember that Mrs DA encouraged me to run for the parish council. I suspect to get me out of the house on an evening. The tory dropped dead during the campaign and the lib dem smelt of piss and had dementia so I was duly elected with a thumping 111 votes on a platform of Eco Anarchism.

    I have not attended any meetings or replied to or otherwise acknowledged a single piece of correspondence. That's anarchism.
    Seeing as you’re an anti-vaxer it’s very Christian of you not to attend meetings and thereby spare their lives
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    I remember walking barefoot along Lonely Beach on Koh Chang island. Like the smattering of other hippy types, there wasn't a care in the world.

    Those days are irretrievably gone, and not just for me.

    The lights are going out all over Europe. We won't see them lit again in our lifetime...
    FFS there are some depressed pessimistic people on here. The sun is shining get a grip.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    Leon said:

    To be clear, I didn’t say ‘society is about to collapse’, I said ‘another 12-18 month cycle of lockdowns, infection, fear, variants and death will lead to total societal collapse’, so please don’t accuse me of ‘doom mongering’

    You are a doomster and a gloomster AICMFP.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,121
    edited July 2021

    Cookie said:

    alex_ said:

    Chairman of the RFL on R4 giving Australia/NZ both barrels - how come other Australian & NZ sportsmen are competing in the UK (Rugby & Cricket)?

    If it's safe for them, why not Rugby League?

    Seems unlikely, but a more responsible management at the Antipodean RL's?

    Or is it more difficult to corral RL players?
    Personally suspect it's just that the RL World Cup, and in fact the wider international game really isn't seen as that important
    It's the local RL authorities who made the decision. No suggestion they were leant on by Govt.

    When I went to live in Lancashire I'd never seen League, only Union, which I'd played at school. Soon realised that League was a better version of the game, and much faster. Now, with the recent rule changes it's faster still, and much more entertaining than Union.
    Still like to see Wales win at Union, though!
    What?!
    I'm from Stockport - union country, but only just. League is a fine sport, but a bit limited and repetitive - basically a less good version of union. We used to play league as a training exercise to work on running lines (which is what you really need to get right in league, because there is absolutely no space) and tackling (which is more conditioning really - tackling is a slightly different skill in league than in union).
    Wow. When I were a lad, merely mentioning League in Union circles was enough to get you barred for life.
    Banned? You were lucky. When I were a lad, just opening t’paper at the League results was enough to have you beaten to death. ’Appened to me three times in ten days.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Leon said:

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    You sound exactly like my smug family in Cornwall. So I’m not sure this is an EU thing, to be honest
    Smugness is a universal human failing.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
    In pb.com electoral news regular viewers of the Dura Ace Show will remember that Mrs DA encouraged me to run for the parish council. I suspect to get me out of the house on an evening. The tory dropped dead during the campaign and the lib dem smelt of piss and had dementia so I was duly elected with a thumping 111 votes on a platform of Eco Anarchism.

    I have not attended any meetings or replied to or otherwise acknowledged a single piece of correspondence. That's anarchism.
    You remind me of the first aider at Aber walking club who was elected despite a promise in his manifesto that he would never, ever administer first aid, and that if you felt him touching you after an accident, he was just looking for your money.

    He still won in a landslide.
    What I have learned is that daft old tories will even vote for somebody as manifestly unsuitable for public office as me if I billed myself as Cdr Dura Ace, RN. Also they all really like my wife
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,251
    Roger said:

    Some nice stills....AKA After Boris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiWomXklfv8

    I wondered what you were on about until I realised I was watching a pre-show advert for prostate cancer.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges.
    So does ours. Which was more than the Borough Council, where we used to live did.
    My experience of Town / Parish councils isn't good. Was elected onto Thornaby for 4 years and it is a lunatic asylum sinking all the town's money into restoring a grand Victorian town hall with no business plan and a taxpayer funded magazine whose opening paragraph on the boundary commission proposals complains about the "annexation" of the town. Neighbouring Yarm has rival independent groups who literally fight in the council chamber. Neighbouring Eaglescliffe keeps getting censured for egregiously bad governance...
    You needed Jackie Weaver!
    The problem is governance - there isn't any. Since the Standards Board was abolished its up to the big council to try and police the local council and they have no teeth. I know of a dossier of evidence being taken to big council's CEO and then the police. Not even looked at.
    We had a situation some years ago where, at election time, most, if not all the current Parish Councillors had, for various reasons, had had enough.
    So, allegedly, a pack of nomination forms was taken into the Con Club one evening and enough nomination papers signed to fill the known vacancies and, because there weren't any other candidates, they were all elected.
    It was a bit of a shambles, but at least, because one of the newcomers had the necessary expertise and contacts we've got an efficient CCTV system in the town centre and car park.
    Whether, of course, that's entirely a good thing is a different matter.
    Most of the Town Councils in the Stockton-on-Tees area are "elected" that way. We decided to contest Thornaby in 2015 and got 5 of us onto a council which had been 100% independent for the previous 8 years. As they just outvoted us on everything and used the taxpayer-funded quarterly council magazine to print their propaganda we didn't see the point in running in 2019.

    All 13 councillors independent again, selected by the Mayor, no election. Spending public money and if the public turn up to meetings to ask questions they get verbal abuse and thrown out. As for "Jackie Weaver" we did get the Local Government Association to have a look, sending another town clerk into a meeting as a member of the public. Asked a question, questioned the Mayor's massive misread of his statutory powers., verbally abused, thrown out AND more abusive comments printed in the taxpayer funded magazine!

    Local government...
    Some of the folk round here who complain about our PC should be grateful. I've been to meetings, asked a question politely and been treated courteously. I've also seen people be aggressive and still be treated courteously.
    We don't often have elections, but a few years ago we had one for a casual vacancy. The winner died shortly after election, IIRC.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    IshmaelZ said:

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    Devon is identical, but with affordable drink and the SailGP circuit racing to watch in Plymouth over the w/e

    How's that £11.50 for a small tin of lager thing working out?
    I think the more interesting thing is the general mindset. It could be that Sweden doesn't have a "lockdown" mindset so that any stage of freedom in their minds is freedom. Perhaps the UK does have a "lockdown" mindset and hence any stage of freedom is in their minds still locked down.

    IOW the UK has to a large extent fucked with the heads of its citizenry to the extent that significant psychological damage has been done.

    Perhaps.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    Charter a yacht, we had the whole of Pabbay to ourselves for 24 hours in June.

    Mind you, even there...some twit is now running day trips to St Kilda from the mainland on (obviously) very high speed craft. Unable to sail because too much weather the day we were there, fortunately.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    Devon is identical, but with affordable drink and the SailGP circuit racing to watch in Plymouth over the w/e

    How's that £11.50 for a small tin of lager thing working out?
    Don’t remind me. Forked out 1950kr for a pretty simple meal for three adults and two children last night. And our youngest one has just decided that daddy is going to buy a motorboat for 2.75 million kronor. I have been forced to explain basic financial facts, eg:

    One must save before spending
    Mummy hates any wind speed over Beaufort 3
    Scots are tight bastards
  • Options
    Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,060

    Roger said:

    Some nice stills....AKA After Boris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiWomXklfv8

    I wondered what you were on about until I realised I was watching a pre-show advert for prostate cancer.
    Who is trying to sell that!?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,121
    edited July 2021

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
    Well, no, but how many dangerously inept cretins are around to take offence?

    So I think Mr Dancer will get away with it.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
    Leave the cretin out, and rephrase.
    How about 'the PM is dangerously inept"
    Insult or accurate description?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    Devon is identical, but with affordable drink and the SailGP circuit racing to watch in Plymouth over the w/e

    How's that £11.50 for a small tin of lager thing working out?
    I think the more interesting thing is the general mindset. It could be that Sweden doesn't have a "lockdown" mindset so that any stage of freedom in their minds is freedom. Perhaps the UK does have a "lockdown" mindset and hence any stage of freedom is in their minds still locked down.

    IOW the UK has to a large extent fucked with the heads of its citizenry to the extent that significant psychological damage has been done.

    Perhaps.
    Not sure about the last bit, but the first bit is definitely correct. If we'd put in place the restrictions which were still in place last month, from scratch - masks, nightclubs, large events - I don't think we would have called that a lockdown. Schools and businesses open. Public transport usable.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    Interesting view from William Hague (paywall)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/big-state-plans-risk-insurgency-on-the-right-bcgb7jv3h

    Summary for those without a paywall:

    * Activist government essential to tackle levelling up, climate change, health and food
    * That will need tax rises in sectors, to be balanced by more efficient government in other areas
    * There is a minority centre-right view that more activist government is a bad thing, and a risk that pushing it will foster a NewKip right-wing alternative
    * But it's necessary and Johnson's hesitant approach isn't meeting the challenges yet.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
    Well, no, but how many dangerously inept cretins are around to take offence?

    So I think Mr Dancer will get away with it.
    Are you now child-free for a few weeks?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,934
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

    Let's try that again shall we

    Comments at parish level = input to planner (note I say comments pointing out it would impact xyz would actually be way more useful than a yes or no without reasoning).

    Planner makes decision with documentation
    - if delegated decision sent and made.

    - if not delegated then passed to committee for decision.

    If appealed by developer - off to the inspectorate.

    There are very important nuances you are missing here - because as I've stated above you are observing a black box (based on your experiences) and using that as the basis of your knowledge instead of looking at the real processes as set out by law.

  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,427

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    The North Coast 500 has been a disaster, aided and abetted by Covid and, frankly, by idiots in the various tourism organisations looking for something to promote. It's heaving with campervans and, remarkably, a surprising number of supermarket delivery wagons.

    Meanwhile the promotion of the "Snow Road" in the East has led to a spate of fatalities caused, largely, by motorcyclists using it as a race-track.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    The North Coast 500 has been a disaster, aided and abetted by Covid and, frankly, by idiots in the various tourism organisations looking for something to promote. It's heaving with campervans and, remarkably, a surprising number of supermarket delivery wagons.

    Meanwhile the promotion of the "Snow Road" in the East has led to a spate of fatalities caused, largely, by motorcyclists using it as a race-track.

    'One used to visit for glorious silence and peace.'

    How much of that was due to enforced Clearances?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,121

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
    Well, no, but how many dangerously inept cretins are around to take offence?

    So I think Mr Dancer will get away with it.
    Are you now child-free for a few weeks?
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3493634
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    U.S. reports nearly 59,000 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since April, amid surge in hospitalizations

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1418002144737828865

    Florida is seeing a significant surge in COVID-19 hospitalizations, according to federal data
    Florida has stopped publicising hospitalisation data.

    I think DeSantis's removal of the rights of cities and towns to set their own rules will go down as a major unforced error.
    What reason did they have for doing that?

    Edit: stopping the publication of data, that is.
    Covid is over, so we don't to keep publishing unnecessary data.
    To be fair, once everyone who wants to be vaccinated is vaccinated, there's an element of truth in that.

    We don't publish daily data on stuff like flu infections etc and once people are vaccinated then Covid is similar to that (and if people aren't vaccinated its their own damned fault).
    We do publish weekly data on influenza, and other viral infections, but most of the time you wouldn't know this, because it's not important to you that you know.

    There is so much noise in the daily data that it probably hasn't ever added much value to have it published daily, but maybe there's an element of being seen to be open and transparent which is worthwhile.
    Fair enough though how is that data gathered? Or reliable?

    When I had the flu in the past (presumably flu) I never took a test or reported it to the government, I just lay in bed for a few days until I felt better. That being the difference presumably between flu and man flu which is really just a cold.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

    Let's try that again shall we

    A rejection at parish level = input to planner.

    Planner makes decision with documentation
    - if delegated decision sent and made.

    - if not delegated then passed to committee for decision.

    If appealed by developer - off to the inspectorate.

    There are very important nuances you are missing here - because as I've stated above you are observing a black box (based on your experiences) and using that as the basis of your knowledge instead of looking at the real processes as set out by law.

    If a rejection is made at Parish level then it is likely then it will go to district planning committee but either way the Planning Officer works for the district council anyway.

    If appealed after then off to the Inspector, so no different to what I said
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?

    If you are a competent pot-rattler, I'd not be too concerned. Something will be in stock. Beyond that, pet food and bottled water were the gaps that surprised me. Water comes from the tap; vegetables can be bought in frozen form.

    But from anecdotes on here, the actual goods affected can vary. Presumably this follows from there being distribution problems, even where there are goods in warehouses, factories and farms.
    Pet food is a useful tip, thanks. Bottled water is just a tax on stupidity; it comes out of the tap for (next to) nothing.
    Assuming the water supply continues to function…
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,402

    Tokyo 2020 social media teams banned from showing athletes taking the knee

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/21/tokyo-2020-olympics-social-media-teams-banned-from-showing-athletes-taking-the-knee

    It wouldn’t surprise me to find that the UK government has been lobbying behind the scenes.

    It wouldn't surprise me to find that is just normal Olympics "no politics" policy.

    No reference to UK govt in the piece. Are there any anywhere else?
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,427
    Candy said:

    Roger said:

    When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    You know what the small print was, right?

    In 2015 the EU re-opened Turkey's EU accession, in return for Turkey keeping some of the migrants on Turkish soil.

    There was even a joint statement on it issued in March 2016, just a few months before the ref:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-towards-a-new-policy-on-migration/file-eu-turkey-statement-action-plan

    It has everything in that statement, including the removal of visa control on Turks - direct quote "The fulfilment of the visa liberalisation roadmap will be accelerated with a view to lifting the visa requirements for Turkish citizens at the latest by the end of June 2016".

    It even says, "The accession process will be re-energised, with Chapter 33 opened during the Dutch Presidency of the Council of the European Union and preparatory work on the opening of other chapters to continue at an accelerated pace".

    So this wasn't about "some comments about Turkey joining in the past". It was very much in the present.

    Now of course the EU might have been fibbing to the Turks in order to persuade the Turks to keep the migrants on their soil.

    Where Vote Leave was clever was simply pointing out that the EU had re-opened talks with the Turks and daring Cameron, Merkel and co to say, "No, no, it's not true, Turkey is not going to join, we were just fibbing to manipulate them into helping with the Syrian migrants"

    And of course they couldn't say that. So the EU was hoist on their own petard for issuing an official communique with the Turks, which they now claim was a tissue of fibs...

    Question: did the EU even consult Cameron before issuing this statement in March 2016 as the ref campaign got underway? Or did Merkel as usual do her own thing without consulting anyone?
    It's amazing how Merkel has such a reputation for competence given the egregious mistakes she has made, such as closing Germany's nuclear power stations and signing up to the Russian gas pipeline. Image triumphing over the actualite.
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,331
    I have just been into Tesco in Broadbridge Heath ne Horsham. The shelves are FULL. I asked and was told the storeroom was FULL. I think someone is selling a pup or blaming their inefficiency on othrts

    Mr. Root, it is an insult, but does add to the conversation.

    The PM's inability to make decisions swiftly, or sensibly, or to face difficult decisions early enough when they can best be treated by prompt action is a material failing of this government.

    We saw this when he was Foreign Secretary and ran away to hide under a table in Afghanistan rather than actually keep a promise and resign over the Heathrow runway or retain his office and break his promise.

    We saw this as Prime Minister when he delayed and delayed and delayed a Christmas lockdown until it was inevitable and made the call late.

    Having a leader who is a coward and indecisive is a significant weakness for a country. We need to have food workers exempted from this pinging nonsense or panic buying will be here in a day or two.

    How many times have you referred to.him in similar vein....
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    You're describing Pennon.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,887
    Question for PB epidemiologists. Latest CFR for Covid is down to 0.1%, about the same as flu. Yet at the same time we’re told Delta is maybe 100% more lethal than normal Covid. So coronavirus is simultaneously getting more and less dangerous

    Is this because of vaccinations? ie the CFR includes vaxed people so of course covid is less dangerous, but it’s still more dangerous for the unvaxxed? Are better treatments also at work?

    Or am I missing something bloody obvious?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930
    edited July 2021
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
    Well, no, but how many dangerously inept cretins are around to take offence?

    So I think Mr Dancer will get away with it.
    Are you now child-free for a few weeks?
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3493634
    Thanks. Was watching game. From that topic, as someone else who is h-o-h, and also a wearer of spectacles, I find the tapes of the masks get tangled behind my ears with everything else my ears are trying support. Move one of the three and the whole damn' system collapses!
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,884
    edited July 2021
    Cicero said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Also the best whisky!
    Yeah, but Lochnagar ain't the Cuillin...

    I like the East in the winter. The pine trees. The granite tors. Cross country skiing when conditions allow. But you can't beat the Hebrides or the far NW on a sunny day in May.

    The increase in tourists is a pain though. The NC500 was a daft idea.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    You're describing Pennon.
    We holidayed in NW Highlands in my childhood several times. No other tourists around for tens of miles. Empty mountains, empty beaches, empty lochs. Sounds like it is very different these days.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,971
    Mr. Root, you're correct that I've often derided the PM. That doesn't negate the validity of my criticisms, which are the cause of my derision for him.

    I'm glad your shelves are full, and hope they remain so.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,427

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    The North Coast 500 has been a disaster, aided and abetted by Covid and, frankly, by idiots in the various tourism organisations looking for something to promote. It's heaving with campervans and, remarkably, a surprising number of supermarket delivery wagons.

    Meanwhile the promotion of the "Snow Road" in the East has led to a spate of fatalities caused, largely, by motorcyclists using it as a race-track.

    'One used to visit for glorious silence and peace.'

    How much of that was due to enforced Clearances?
    Probably quite a lot, but subsistence crofting would always have come to an end. Other parts of Britain were also cleared but rebuilt their populations and the clearances have been long since forgotten. In the Highlands and Islands, the results are all too clearly evident in the empty glens.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,143
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

    Catchy post with a strong central point. Here's OJ musing on similar lines but in more of an OJ than a Roger way -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/cummings-england-political-westminster-elite
    One thing I've picked up over the years, (from Cummings, Trump and elsewhere) is if you are going to make stuff up in an ad / post leave other things to argue about.

    Turkey joining the EU and the £350m a week are great examples of this. There is enough element of truth in it that even if they argue the point (it's £350m total but we get £200m back) it just re-enforces the core message.
    Yep. Although I'm not as livid about those 2 examples as many of my Remainer compadres are. Brexit is an act of economic and cultural vandalism. It's being done for reasons that are the opposite of noble. The better side of our nature lost to its darker twin. But Leave won fair and square as far as I'm concerned. I actually think the 52/48 understates the mood of the country. Makes it appear a finer judgment than it really was. In FPTP terms it was a landslide. Almost anywhere you go in England outside London, a majority wanted out of the EU. So out we have come. Democracy.

    Trump, different story. Everything that issues forth from his odd pouting mouth is both nasty and a lie. I both disagree with what he says and would totally NOT defend to the death his right to say it. Deplatform and cancel is the way forward there, for me. Preferably written into law. A bespoke and carefully worded piece of legislation applying purely to him, hence dealing with the 'slippery slope' objection.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,375
    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
    In pb.com electoral news regular viewers of the Dura Ace Show will remember that Mrs DA encouraged me to run for the parish council. I suspect to get me out of the house on an evening. The tory dropped dead during the campaign and the lib dem smelt of piss and had dementia so I was duly elected with a thumping 111 votes on a platform of Eco Anarchism.

    I have not attended any meetings or replied to or otherwise acknowledged a single piece of correspondence. That's anarchism.
    You remind me of the first aider at Aber walking club who was elected despite a promise in his manifesto that he would never, ever administer first aid, and that if you felt him touching you after an accident, he was just looking for your money.

    He still won in a landslide.
    What I have learned is that daft old tories will even vote for somebody as manifestly unsuitable for public office as me if I billed myself as Cdr Dura Ace, RN. Also they all really like my wife
    More importantly, how is Mrs DA taking the failure of her "get DA out of the house" plan?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,976
    That road to Damascus getting a bit congested.

    The Spectator
    @spectator
    'I now accept that when players start taking the knee again in a few weeks’ time it will not be because they’re rabid neo-Marxists.'
    Toby Young
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,402
    Scott_xP said:

    Business Secretary Kwasi Kwarteng tells @KayBurley the list of workers exempt from isolation rules will be “quite narrow”

    He insists list will come “very soon”… but refuses to say if that means today or even by the end of the week

    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1418093592116178950

    That exemption list in full:

    "Boris Johnson".

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1418094174340014080

    I'm sure I heard KK saying "guidance today" on R4 this AM.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Pointer, the PM is a dangerously inept cretin.

    A personal.insult that adds nothing to the conversation...
    Yes. Unnecessarily rude to cretins*

    * although I believe that term is frowned on these days
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    The North Coast 500 has been a disaster, aided and abetted by Covid and, frankly, by idiots in the various tourism organisations looking for something to promote. It's heaving with campervans and, remarkably, a surprising number of supermarket delivery wagons.

    Meanwhile the promotion of the "Snow Road" in the East has led to a spate of fatalities caused, largely, by motorcyclists using it as a race-track.

    'One used to visit for glorious silence and peace.'

    How much of that was due to enforced Clearances?
    Can we also blame the EU (for all the tourists)? When I visited as a child the roads were shall we say a little old fashioned. Passing places all over. I believe EU was about to spend billions upgrading them all. I haven't been back, so I don't know.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,957
    Nick Clegg on the broad coalitions that now make up the 3 main parties

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1418126984111087620?s=20
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    The North Coast 500 has been a disaster, aided and abetted by Covid and, frankly, by idiots in the various tourism organisations looking for something to promote. It's heaving with campervans and, remarkably, a surprising number of supermarket delivery wagons.

    Meanwhile the promotion of the "Snow Road" in the East has led to a spate of fatalities caused, largely, by motorcyclists using it as a race-track.

    'One used to visit for glorious silence and peace.'

    How much of that was due to enforced Clearances?
    Probably quite a lot, but subsistence crofting would always have come to an end. Other parts of Britain were also cleared but rebuilt their populations and the clearances have been long since forgotten. In the Highlands and Islands, the results are all too clearly evident in the empty glens.
    Yes; that was Thatcher's big mistake. (Yes, I know). The mines were closed and the was often no alternative employment. When the glens were cleared, the populations were sent to Glasgow, Australasia and Canada.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,402
    edited July 2021

    That road to Damascus getting a bit congested.

    The Spectator
    @spectator
    'I now accept that when players start taking the knee again in a few weeks’ time it will not be because they’re rabid neo-Marxists.'
    Toby Young

    More interesting segment from that piece imo:


    Late last year, the Free Speech Union, which I run, was contacted by a fan of a Championship club who’d been temporarily banned from the stadium for booing players taking the knee. (This was during the short window when fans were allowed back into grounds.)

    He was summoned to a meeting with club officials to explain himself and we sent a barrister along to make the case for his defence, which included pointing out that he’d been a long-standing supporter of the ‘Kick It Out’ campaign against racism in football, as was clear from his Facebook page. His reason for booing was because he associated the gesture with BLM and didn’t like the intrusion of politics into the sport he loved. He cited the rule the Football Association has about players and managers not endorsing political causes on the pitch and said he would have booed if they’d signalled their support for a right-wing cause. Even Lord Finkelstein would have been persuaded, I think, that this man was a decent, upstanding citizen and I’m pleased to say the ban was lifted.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,201

    Cicero said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Also the best whisky!
    Yeah, but Lochnagar ain't the Cuillin...

    I like the East in the winter. The pine trees. The granite tors. Cross country skiing when conditions allow. But you can't beat the Hebrides or the far NW on a sunny day in May.

    The increase in tourists is a pain though. The NC500 was a daft idea.
    Well the "sunny day" in May, or indeed most other months, is the challenge.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,976

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    My usual route to N.Uist includes the stretch between the Skye Bridge and Portree; Cuillins apart, I've come to dread it.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930
    edited July 2021
    MattW said:

    That road to Damascus getting a bit congested.

    The Spectator
    @spectator
    'I now accept that when players start taking the knee again in a few weeks’ time it will not be because they’re rabid neo-Marxists.'
    Toby Young

    More interesting segment from that piece imo:


    Late last year, the Free Speech Union, which I run, was contacted by a fan of a Championship club who’d been temporarily banned from the stadium for booing players taking the knee. (This was during the short window when fans were allowed back into grounds.)

    He was summoned to a meeting with club officials to explain himself and we sent a barrister along to make the case for his defence, which included pointing out that he’d been a long-standing supporter of the ‘Kick It Out’ campaign against racism in football, as was clear from his Facebook page. His reason for booing was because he associated the gesture with BLM and didn’t like the intrusion of politics into the sport he loved. He cited the rule the Football Association has about players and managers not endorsing political causes on the pitch and said he would have booed if they’d signalled their support for a right-wing cause. Even Lord Finkelstein would have been persuaded, I think, that this man was a decent, upstanding citizen and I’m pleased to say the ban was lifted.
    Wonder how the club officials felt when a barrister turned up. I suspect they're not used to that.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,887
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

    Catchy post with a strong central point. Here's OJ musing on similar lines but in more of an OJ than a Roger way -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/cummings-england-political-westminster-elite
    One thing I've picked up over the years, (from Cummings, Trump and elsewhere) is if you are going to make stuff up in an ad / post leave other things to argue about.

    Turkey joining the EU and the £350m a week are great examples of this. There is enough element of truth in it that even if they argue the point (it's £350m total but we get £200m back) it just re-enforces the core message.
    Yep. Although I'm not as livid about those 2 examples as many of my Remainer compadres are. Brexit is an act of economic and cultural vandalism. It's being done for reasons that are the opposite of noble. The better side of our nature lost to its darker twin. But Leave won fair and square as far as I'm concerned. I actually think the 52/48 understates the mood of the country. Makes it appear a finer judgment than it really was. In FPTP terms it was a landslide. Almost anywhere you go in England outside London, a majority wanted out of the EU. So out we have come. Democracy.

    Trump, different story. Everything that issues forth from his odd pouting mouth is both nasty and a lie. I both disagree with what he says and would totally NOT defend to the death his right to say it. Deplatform and cancel is the way forward there, for me. Preferably written into law. A bespoke and carefully worded piece of legislation applying purely to him, hence dealing with the 'slippery slope' objection.
    But this is not the case

    I despise Trump, and loathe his malign influence on US politics, but he said some sane, truthful stuff amidst the weird gibberish

    eg he was the first big global politician to say the virus probably came from a lab. God knows why he said it. The week before he was praising Xi. A week later he was on to something else. Likely it just jumped out of his crazy head, after an intelligence briefing

    But what he said was true and important. Unfortunately the fact that HE said it meant the lab leak hypothesis then became toxic and was effectively suppressed for a year

    I note that today China has outright refused to co-operate with the next stage of WHO’s investigation of coronavirus and its origins
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,163

    Cicero said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Also the best whisky!
    Yeah, but Lochnagar ain't the Cuillin...

    I like the East in the winter. The pine trees. The granite tors. Cross country skiing when conditions allow. But you can't beat the Hebrides or the far NW on a sunny day in May.

    The increase in tourists is a pain though. The NC500 was a daft idea.
    The Ferryboat Inn has the best view from a pub lounge window I have ever seen.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,884
    edited July 2021

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    You're describing Pennon.
    We holidayed in NW Highlands in my childhood several times. No other tourists around for tens of miles. Empty mountains, empty beaches, empty lochs. Sounds like it is very different these days.
    If you walk more than a mile from a car park, and are out of earshot of the A837, then it is much the same.

    I walked through Fisherfield pre-pandemic and met only half a dozen people. A few Germans doing the Cape Wrath way, a Dutch geology professor camped by one of the lochs with his son, and a couple of Munro baggers. That was pretty much it.

    The camper vans are a menace though. I quite fancied one once as an upgrade from the usual tent on midgy days but not one of these massive things that dumps their cr*p (quite literally) by the side of the road. I'm not bothering now.

    Maybe the craze will die down eventually. The mountains and lochs will still be there.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    The North Coast 500 has been a disaster, aided and abetted by Covid and, frankly, by idiots in the various tourism organisations looking for something to promote. It's heaving with campervans and, remarkably, a surprising number of supermarket delivery wagons.

    Meanwhile the promotion of the "Snow Road" in the East has led to a spate of fatalities caused, largely, by motorcyclists using it as a race-track.

    'One used to visit for glorious silence and peace.'

    How much of that was due to enforced Clearances?
    Probably quite a lot, but subsistence crofting would always have come to an end. Other parts of Britain were also cleared but rebuilt their populations and the clearances have been long since forgotten. In the Highlands and Islands, the results are all too clearly evident in the empty glens.
    Yes; that was Thatcher's big mistake. (Yes, I know). The mines were closed and the was often no alternative employment. When the glens were cleared, the populations were sent to Glasgow, Australasia and Canada.
    Okay, I'll bite. There are various problems with that statement. Firstly, why was it just Thatcher's big mistake, when governments before and after hers closed mines, and employment in the mines was falling from 1960 onwards (and that was a plateau from a much higher peak in 1920). Secondly, what was the alternative? Doing a Canute and keeping the mines open?

    As I said in an anecdote the other day, lots of people working in mines were generally unqualified for other work - a failing of the education system. (*) Worse, the work was well-paid, which made the closures all the more painful as alternative work often was not.

    (*) Not all; I knew one man - a mechanic - who readily got work in a very different area. But being a mechanic is a much more transferrable skill than (say) driving a coal loader.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,934
    edited July 2021
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

    Let's try that again shall we

    A rejection at parish level = input to planner.

    Planner makes decision with documentation
    - if delegated decision sent and made.

    - if not delegated then passed to committee for decision.

    If appealed by developer - off to the inspectorate.

    There are very important nuances you are missing here - because as I've stated above you are observing a black box (based on your experiences) and using that as the basis of your knowledge instead of looking at the real processes as set out by law.

    If a rejection is made at Parish level then it is likely then it will go to district planning committee but either way the Planning Officer works for the district council anyway.

    If appealed after then off to the Inspector, so no different to what I said
    Planning officers are not servants of councillors - they can influence the local plan but at a development control level the job is ensuring that the application meets the law and (assuming its valid) the contents of the local plan. It requires district level approval for decisions to be made outside of that.

    There are a few councils where planning departments have had to be removed from the local authority because of successful ombudsman complaints (regarding undue influence of development control work) so I would be very careful with your comments above.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,887
    edited July 2021

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    My usual route to N.Uist includes the stretch between the Skye Bridge and Portree; Cuillins apart, I've come to dread it.
    Skye is now overrun, it’s rather sad. That road you mention is particularly grim.

    Like others I can remember when it was magnificently lonely.

    There is one corner which is still fairly tranquil - and lovely. The Sleat Peninsula in the south. It’s also one of the most interesting bits - Gaelic speaking

    I am amazed to hear that even Ardnamurchan is overcrowded. Ardnamurchan??!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Report from the European Union:

    No food shortages
    No driver shortages
    No face masks (or rather extremely rare)
    Kids thoroughly enjoying relaxing laziness after a year of normal, undisrupted schooling
    Young adults partying just as hard as usual
    Summer Sweden as fantastic as ever
    Off to plunge off a 7m diving platform into the sea (water temp 22 degrees)
    Glorious suntans and happy faces abound
    Royal Norwegian and Danish yachts are docked down by the pulsing jetty

    How’s your Summer of Discontent going?

    Devon is identical, but with affordable drink and the SailGP circuit racing to watch in Plymouth over the w/e

    How's that £11.50 for a small tin of lager thing working out?
    I think the more interesting thing is the general mindset. It could be that Sweden doesn't have a "lockdown" mindset so that any stage of freedom in their minds is freedom. Perhaps the UK does have a "lockdown" mindset and hence any stage of freedom is in their minds still locked down.

    IOW the UK has to a large extent fucked with the heads of its citizenry to the extent that significant psychological damage has been done.

    Perhaps.
    Not sure about the last bit, but the first bit is definitely correct. If we'd put in place the restrictions which were still in place last month, from scratch - masks, nightclubs, large events - I don't think we would have called that a lockdown. Schools and businesses open. Public transport usable.
    As I have noted on here before, "lockdown" has become shorthand for extraordinary restrictions on liberty, not actual you must not leave the house instructions.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,930

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    You're describing Pennon.
    We holidayed in NW Highlands in my childhood several times. No other tourists around for tens of miles. Empty mountains, empty beaches, empty lochs. Sounds like it is very different these days.
    If you walk more than a mile from a car park, and are out of earshot of the A837, then it is much the same.

    I walked through Fisherfield pre-pandemic and met only half a dozen people. A few Germans doing the Cape Wrath way, a Dutch geology professor camped by one of the lochs with his son, and a couple of Munro baggers. That was pretty much it.

    The camper vans are a menace though. I quite fancied one once as an upgrade from the usual tent on midgy days but not one of these massive things that dumps their cr*p (quite literally) by the side of the road.

    Maybe the craze will die down eventually. The mountains and lochs will still be there.
    We had a camper van for a couple of years. Quite enjoyed it, but our children were really too young. We thought about getting another when we retired...... we did so fairly close together..... but somehow the moment passed, and other things happened.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,069
    Charles said:

    I know that nobody on here would ever engage in anything so declasse as panic buying, but any suggestions from those whose shops have already run out of things on which items a responsible shopper might like to focus on in building a modest strategic reserve, taking into account likely supply/demand imbalances in coming weeks?

    If you are a competent pot-rattler, I'd not be too concerned. Something will be in stock. Beyond that, pet food and bottled water were the gaps that surprised me. Water comes from the tap; vegetables can be bought in frozen form.

    But from anecdotes on here, the actual goods affected can vary. Presumably this follows from there being distribution problems, even where there are goods in warehouses, factories and farms.
    Pet food is a useful tip, thanks. Bottled water is just a tax on stupidity; it comes out of the tap for (next to) nothing.
    Assuming the water supply continues to function…
    I am assuming our near future involves mild inconvenience not a wholesale descent into Mad Max territory. Perhaps I am lacking in imagination.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,983

    Dura_Ace said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
    In pb.com electoral news regular viewers of the Dura Ace Show will remember that Mrs DA encouraged me to run for the parish council. I suspect to get me out of the house on an evening. The tory dropped dead during the campaign and the lib dem smelt of piss and had dementia so I was duly elected with a thumping 111 votes on a platform of Eco Anarchism.

    I have not attended any meetings or replied to or otherwise acknowledged a single piece of correspondence. That's anarchism.
    You remind me of the first aider at Aber walking club who was elected despite a promise in his manifesto that he would never, ever administer first aid, and that if you felt him touching you after an accident, he was just looking for your money.

    He still won in a landslide.
    What I have learned is that daft old tories will even vote for somebody as manifestly unsuitable for public office as me if I billed myself as Cdr Dura Ace, RN. Also they all really like my wife
    More importantly, how is Mrs DA taking the failure of her "get DA out of the house" plan?
    She'll come up with something else. Hope never dies.
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,427
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    My usual route to N.Uist includes the stretch between the Skye Bridge and Portree; Cuillins apart, I've come to dread it.
    Skye is now overrun, it’s rather sad. That road you mention is particularly grim.

    Like others I can remember when it was magnificently lonely.

    There is one corner which is still fairly tranquil - and lovely. The Sleat Peninsula in the south. It’s also on of the most interesting bits - Gaelic speaking

    I am amazed to hear that even Ardnamurchan is overcrowded. Ardnamurchan??!
    Sleat is "Gaelic-speaking" solely because of the influx generated by Sabhal Mor Ostaig, the Gaelic college. It survives, sort of, as a community language only in the Trotternish and Waternish peninsulas in Skye. Frankly, the language seems doomed as it is in rapid decline even in the Western Isles.

    But you're right, Sleat is lovely.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    'How can I be racist? I'm half black myself' - Muslim woman filmed threatening to stab train passengers

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9811539/Woman-22-filmed-abusing-passengers-train-says-lost-plot.html

    Hmmm... certainly seem pretty racist to me.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,390
    Dura_Ace said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    Our parish council cuts the grass verges for £80 a year...
    In pb.com electoral news regular viewers of the Dura Ace Show will remember that Mrs DA encouraged me to run for the parish council. I suspect to get me out of the house on an evening. The tory dropped dead during the campaign and the lib dem smelt of piss and had dementia so I was duly elected with a thumping 111 votes on a platform of Eco Anarchism.

    I have not attended any meetings or replied to or otherwise acknowledged a single piece of correspondence. That's anarchism.
    ...The tory dropped dead during the campaign ...

    Not revolutionary anarchism, I hope ?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,402
    edited July 2021
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

    Let's try that again shall we

    Comments at parish level = input to planner (note I say comments pointing out it would impact xyz would actually be way more useful than a yes or no without reasoning).

    Planner makes decision with documentation
    - if delegated decision sent and made.

    - if not delegated then passed to committee for decision.

    If appealed by developer - off to the inspectorate.

    There are very important nuances you are missing here - because as I've stated above you are observing a black box (based on your experiences) and using that as the basis of your knowledge instead of looking at the real processes as set out by law.

    Eek has it.

    Where is this country where Planning Apps have to be submitted to a Parish Council?

    Not England, or anywhere else that I am aware of.

    The Parish Council is a "Statutory Consultee" (full list here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/consultation-and-pre-decision-matters#Statutory-consultees-on-applications) which means they are informed and get the opportunity to comment but have no decision making authority.

    Similar others are Rail Network Operators, Historic England and the Canal and Rivers Trust.

    Quite how the Gardens Trust made it onto that list is baffling.

    On the wider issue, Unitary Councils will work in some places, not in others - as @Cyclefree was pointing out wrt Cumbria.

    I was working for a small LA in Shropshire when the awful Hazel Blears pithed localisation in England's most spread-out county.

    Here in Notts there is Nottingham and a collection of towns nearly as big Nottingham together 20 miles North. The idea that the latter should be run from a Southern Suburb of the former is insane.
This discussion has been closed.