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The developing empty shelves narrative could really damage Johnson and his government – politicalbet

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  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    My usual route to N.Uist includes the stretch between the Skye Bridge and Portree; Cuillins apart, I've come to dread it.
    Skye is now overrun, it’s rather sad. That road you mention is particularly grim.

    Like others I can remember when it was magnificently lonely.

    There is one corner which is still fairly tranquil - and lovely. The Sleat Peninsula in the south. It’s also one of the most interesting bits - Gaelic speaking

    I am amazed to hear that even Ardnamurchan is overcrowded. Ardnamurchan??!
    I keep meaning to fit in a trip to Raasay (birthplace of the great Gaelic bard Somhairle MacGill-Eain of coure) but never quite manage to get round to it. I'm sure there are still lots of relatively untouched places out there, largely down to how inconvenient it is to get to them and lack of boutique accommodation.
    Anecdata on Skye accommodation. A friend of mine owns a handsome Croft on a tiny offshore island. He’s done it up in fine style and turned it into ultra-luxury self catering. Very very expensive. Despite the price he’s had excellent publicity and reviews - and now it is fully booked, winter and summer, until... 2023

    My ambition is to go to the southern end of the western isles - Uist, Barra, Eriskay. They sound dreamy
    I've heard that Calmac are booked out for the Outer Hebrides for non commercial vehicles until late autumn, so like so many things we'll all have to wait till next year :(
    A bicycle is the way to island hop. Provided you don't mind headwinds...
    True enough for you hardier souls, I'm more of a bike in the boot of the car and a gentle pedal to the Rodel and back kinda guy.
    I had a great holiday some years ago in the Loire Valley. I had thought I would go in a car meandering from village bar to village bar before I realised that if I was going to drive into a hedge blind drunk it would be best for me not to be motorised.

    Hence I signed up for a week of "Cycling for Softies" (google note: I see they are still in existence).

    Was fantastic. They took your bags to a different hotel each day which were anything from 5-10 miles apart so you could cycle as much or as little as you wanted. Hardly saw a car the whole time. Plenty of chateaux with shabby chic chateaux owners.
    I've used them too! Eurostar to Avignon, they picked us up and took us to St Remy de Provence and then, as you say, collected our bags each morning and dropped them at the new place.

    Best holiday I've ever had. One lucky stop was Eygalieres, which is delightful. There was a brocante in full flow. Spotted a lovely mid-century cabinet. Would be £1500 in chi-chi London places. So I thought, hmm, might be a bargain. Knowing how easily I could have transported it back home with my courier contacts, I enquired on the price. It was E10,000.....

    BUT the coffee and brandy at the local cafe, with live jazz, was but a few small notes!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,818
    eek said:

    One for RochdalePioneer but significantly about Aberdeen rather than anything else

    Loganair are axing their Aberdeen Newcastle flights https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1417900368273477633

    Given the multiple flights a day that used to go on that route - it shows the state of the oil industry in Aberdeen.

    Oh joy. LNER trains will once again fill up with drunk roustabouts going on or coming off shift.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    On the plus side, all my grocery order came with only one substitution...the downside, its too damn hot....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    TOPPING said:

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    Perhaps @TSE fancies the Fiji Water Girl.
    In interviews after she went viral, Ms Steinbach denied she had been asked to photobomb the images, insisting she had simply been doing her job of "hydrating the stars".
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47182951

    Now there's a new euphemism.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    One for RochdalePioneer but significantly about Aberdeen rather than anything else

    Loganair are axing their Aberdeen Newcastle flights https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1417900368273477633

    Given the multiple flights a day that used to go on that route - it shows the state of the oil industry in Aberdeen.

    Oh joy. LNER trains will once again fill up with drunk roustabouts going on or coming off shift.
    Given that the remaining option is flying to Teesside I suspect you are right.

    I used to enjoy first class on the train to Aberdeen but I suspect I was the exception rather than the rule.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Vaccine passports remain the work of Satan by which ID cards will be imposed.

    What is your issue with ID cards?

    Being asked for ID itself or the original plan that went with it of an all singing and dancing database hanging off it that virtually everyone could access?
    A reminder for everyone that the vaxports are already out. Just not publicised.
    A reminder for everyone that they are next to useless:

    1) There is no connection between the LFT and the 'passport' - it relies on the reporter doing the test and reporting the result rather than just 'reporting the result'

    2) I did it for Wimbles; they didn't scan it, they just looked at it. A screenshot would have been perfectly adequate.

    We shouldn't have them because they're a gross impingement on individual liberty; but that aside, what is the sodding point given 1 and 2 above?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    DougSeal said:

    Scotch experts right at the top of government!



    Hey PB! "Scotch experts"! After all this time, if we look very hard we may be able to find the joke TUD has been making a few times a day for forever!
    I don't consider myself an expert, but certainly enjoy a wee dram, or sometimes, if with a good friend, a wee bottle. That can get very humorous.
  • CandyCandy Posts: 51
    Roger said:



    An interesting post with facts and detail that I (and I suspect 90% of the country) didn't know. However I'm not sure what point you're making? Is it that 70 million Turks were likely to have free entry into our country within a year or just that the EU were so deliberately opaque it teaches them a lesson?

    That was really my point. We deserved to be given facts we could rely on. There were no neutrals. The press were never going to question what was being said-they were Leavers- and TV were virtually forbidden to do so which meant Cummings/Johnson could peddle what they liked and Cummings was bright and ruthless enough to know how to do it.

    The referendum was a long term decision. It wasn't about what would happen in the next year but what would happen in the next forty years. Because if Remain had won, there wouldn't have been another referendum for 41 years - so the voters were looking at 2057 before they could revisit it.

    In that context it was perfectly valid to ask what would happen in those next forty years.

    It's a fact that the EU issued a joint communique with Turkey in March 2016 re-opening the accession process.

    Vote Leave were perfectly within their rights to ask a) did the EU really mean this and b) what were the implications.

    They chose cleverly to simply highlight that the EU had re-opened talks. The remainers could then have countered by saying that there was no way Turkey was going to join, the EU was just manipulating the Turks to get help with the Syrian situation, but had no intention of following through. Or they could have said that yes Turkey was going to join and Turkish people would be able to enter the UK.

    Voters were already suspicious of govt stats. As we now know, the govt thought there were 3 million EU people here and over 6 million applied to stay. And the govt had applied the 7 year transition period to Romania for free movement and estimated that there were 127,000 Romanians who arrived after that point, and it turned out to be about 900,000 applying for settled status. If Romanians were this eager to come to Britain, why would Turks be any different?

    So yes, it was a valid question for the Leave side to raise about Turkey, and about the Balkan states.

    You are just annoyed that the Vote Leave tactic of just raising the issue worked so well - but it worked well because the Remainers didn't have an answer.

    My suspicion is that the EU had no intention of following through with the Turks - which is why Erdogen gets so wound up with them.

    But in that situation, the EU shouldn't have told a pack of fibs to the Turks and they shouldn't have issued that communique just as the referendum campaign was getting going, without consulting Cameron. The fact they they didn't consult him just underlined how little influence the UK had on anything the EU did.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Vaccine passports remain the work of Satan by which ID cards will be imposed.

    I would just like to say that I am not Ian Brown or Eric Clapton
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Aslan said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    ridaligo said:

    That road to Damascus getting a bit congested.

    The Spectator
    @spectator
    'I now accept that when players start taking the knee again in a few weeks’ time it will not be because they’re rabid neo-Marxists.'
    Toby Young

    Good morning fellow PBers. Your resident "soft-headed bigot" (copyright kinabalu) signing in for another day of robust debate about the issues of the day.

    No-one thinks footballers "are" neo-Marxists - that would be absurd. Presumably, the reason some people do not support the taking of the knee at sporting events is because it adopts the symbolism of the BLM movement, which is, openly, a neo-Marxist organization. If one adopts the symbolism of an organization then it's reasonable to assume support for it.

    Trying to explain that away by saying "no, no, we're not supporting the organization; we're just saying we're against racism" is problematic when there are perfectly good campaigns, such as "Kick It Out" and "Show Racism the Red Card", out there and doing a good job of highlighting the issue.

    It's interesting that the FA and others have doubled down on the "taking of the knee" when they could have just as easily supported "taking a stand" or "turning a back" - which do not have divisive political overtones - instead. Personally, I'm not a fan of using sport for any political purpose but that's by the by - it seems it's here to stay.

    Anyway, it sounds as if the likes of Topy Young are admitting defeat on this one, which is a notable development given that the underlying concerns about the association with BLM and it's objectives have not gone away.
    Don't start thinking you're something special. SHBs are ten a penny. But ok, objection noted, let's see how we get on from here. I've been known to revise assessments based on evolving info. This latest offering of yours leaves us with status quo, sadly, but life is long.
    Taking the Knee is another tool for Middle Class urban football fans to demonstrate their superiority over their poorer football-supporting brethren. It is the Middle Class types who get to frame the debate and say what is and what is not acceptable, and those who disagree are labelled as bigots by these very types. The FA panders to it because they know that these types also set the public agenda.

    As was said on this site, last week, if somebody was giving a Nazi / Fascist salute, you wouldn't be thinking of the nuances such as "that person in giving the salute is really expressing support for Germany's Autobahn plans in the 1930s", you would be assuming they support the organisation of which that is a symbol.

    You should be attacking BLM for appropriating a symbol that could have been seen as a non-political way of opposing racism, instead of which BLM decided to adopt it for itself so it could further its own cause.
    What crap. Taking the knee was initiated not by demand from fans, middle class or otherwise, but by the players themselves. Most of them come from working class backgrounds and are actually doing it because they are either subject to racist abuse themselves or have solidarity with their mates who are.

    The Nazi comparison is completely crass as Nazi Germany was a major industrial nation, not a tinpot outfit dwarfed by a much bigger, more moderate movement. Everyone knew who Hitler was in the 1930s. I bet 5% of Brits could name anyone in the actual BLM organization. It is amazing how many right wingers love footballers wearing poppies etc, but oppose symbols against racism as "virtue signalling".
    Actually I don't agree with either. I think shaming people to wear the poppy is as crass as shaming people to take the knee. You are making people do something with which they feel uncomfortable in both cases.

    Using whom people know in BLM as an reason why BLM is insignificant is a crap analogy as well. Most people couldn't tell you who was in charge in Hezbollah or Iran but would know both organisations hate Israel and would like to destroy it.

    As for Black poverty, if you really want to do something about it, you should be concentrating on the family structures in the community. Most commentators who are truly concerned about Black poverty - as opposed to just saying symbols because it makes them look good - recognise it is the number one issue around deprivation. Funnily enough, many of the Middle Class leftie types who bang on loudest about that would stigmatise single mothers usually seem to have traditional, two-partner families.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    felix said:

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    He didn't turn hard enough - sometimes you have to faucet!
    I know our puns can be a sink of depravity, but that one is plumbing new depths.
    It plugged a tap in the market.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Vaccine passports remain the work of Satan by which ID cards will be imposed.

    What is your issue with ID cards?

    Being asked for ID itself or the original plan that went with it of an all singing and dancing database hanging off it that virtually everyone could access?
    A reminder for everyone that the vaxports are already out. Just not publicised.
    A reminder for everyone that they are next to useless:

    1) There is no connection between the LFT and the 'passport' - it relies on the reporter doing the test and reporting the result rather than just 'reporting the result'

    2) I did it for Wimbles; they didn't scan it, they just looked at it. A screenshot would have been perfectly adequate.

    We shouldn't have them because they're a gross impingement on individual liberty; but that aside, what is the sodding point given 1 and 2 above?
    I know you're opposed but can you please make sensible objections.

    Point 1- Is about lateral flow tests, that's completely seperate to vaccination. I agree these can be faked very easily as the result is self reported... no QR code is generated.

    Point 2 - People have used fake ID before. It doesn't make ID useless. The corollary of your assertion is that QR codes generally are useless on phones. I doubt that's true.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    You're describing Pennon.
    Pennan is 7 miles away - amazing place. Next to Pennan is Troup Head and the RSPB site - amazing place. Next to that is Crovie - like Pennan only so narrow a shelf that you have to leave your car at the top and walk down - unbelievable place. Next to that is Gardenstown, slightly bigger but still bonkers. You can walk Gardenstown to Crovie to Troup Head to Pennan.

    These are the kind of crazy places I used to do roadtrip holidays to visit. Now I go for a stroll after work. Its bliss :)
    For Local Hero (or Newcastle United) fans it's a must
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    My piece in @newstatesman on Dominic Cummings' record - extraordinary tactical but destructive successes; never succeeding in replacing what he has destroyed with something better; creating problems faster than he solved them.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/07/how-dominic-cummings-always-makes-things-worse
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 319

    Scotch experts right at the top of government!


    I didn't know she even drank the stuff, but good on her for being an expert! Mrs T used to like the odd tipple.

    Oh, hang on...I get it, English haters think all English people call the Scots "Scotch"!! It is an attempt at humour! Nationalists should stay away from humour; stick to strutting about wrapped up in flags and generally looking and sounding fecking stupid is the closest you get to being funny.
    It's like shooting triggerfish in a barrel..
    Not really, it just further points out your prejudice every time you do it. "I don't hate the English but..." was a phrase I heard from more than one Galswegian taxi driver , and was the preamble to a justification to his prejudice .

    Anti-English racism is something you Nats revel in, combined with an unnecessary and historically unsupportable inferiority complex. Come to think of it, it would be a fascinating exercise to do some psychometric profiling on a load of nationalists, both English and Scottish. I imagine the profiles would be very similar.
    Let's not forget that the SNP was formed in 1934, inspired by Hitler's Nationalists. In 1939-1945 they encouraged Scots not to join the British Army.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Just back from trip to Tesco. Was almost as if 19 July hadn't happened. Mask use only off slightly (and more amongst staff than customers.) No signs of any gaps on the shelves.

    Hopefully this will continue to be the case, but business - especially retail and logistics - continues to sound the alarm. Meanwhile, Jeremy Hunt has apparently joined the chorus of Tory MPs asking the Government to stop dragging its feet on scrapping isolation for the double-vaxxed.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    What's religion got to do with vaccination? Or rather these covid vaccines, there are no ingredients which are forbidden.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited July 2021

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Scott_xP said:
    The arguments for Brexit were shaky at best. Dom's recent pronouncements have left them in tatters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523
    Scott_xP said:

    My piece in @newstatesman on Dominic Cummings' record - extraordinary tactical but destructive successes; never succeeding in replacing what he has destroyed with something better; creating problems faster than he solved them.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/07/how-dominic-cummings-always-makes-things-worse

    A stunningly ill informed and ignorant piece by someone who doesn't seem to understand any of the subjects he talks about - not least how Parliamentary democracy works. Not really surprised you linked to such a fuck witted piece.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

    Let's try that again shall we

    A rejection at parish level = input to planner.

    Planner makes decision with documentation
    - if delegated decision sent and made.

    - if not delegated then passed to committee for decision.

    If appealed by developer - off to the inspectorate.

    There are very important nuances you are missing here - because as I've stated above you are observing a black box (based on your experiences) and using that as the basis of your knowledge instead of looking at the real processes as set out by law.

    If a rejection is made at Parish level then it is likely then it will go to district planning committee but either way the Planning Officer works for the district council anyway.

    If appealed after then off to the Inspector, so no different to what I said
    Planning officers are not servants of councillors - they can influence the local plan but at a development control level the job is ensuring that the application meets the law and (assuming its valid) the contents of the local plan. It requires district level approval for decisions to be made outside of that.

    There are a few councils where planning departments have had to be removed from the local authority because of successful ombudsman complaints (regarding undue influence of development control work) so I would be very careful with your comments above.
    Who creates the local plan? District councillors, with input from parish and town councillors via the neighbourhood plan
    I wouldn't say councillors 'create' the local plan. I'd say planning officers 'create' the plan and councillors 'approve' it (or not). Though clearly they have to create a plan that the councillors will approve.

    Councillors from the majority party decide which areas of the local authority get the most development, often in areas where an opposing party holds the council seats.

    Planning officers merely ensure it can be implemented and is legal and do the detail
    I dont know any cllrs who would admit to that logic. And if they do it speaks very Ill of them as it is entirely improper to make decisions based on irrelevant consideration.
    Yep and an invalid local plan gives developers completely free reign to build what they want.

    Which isn't a problem unless someone posted evidence that the local plan was based on invalid considerations for political advantage - so potentially rendering the plan invalid.
    Enough tweeks are made after the Planning Inspector report to ensure the local plan remains valid and the party with majority control on the council will of course get its way
    Disagree here wih @eek.

    It changes the weight of the presumption to approve; it does not give an untramelled free-for-all.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Because some of us live in a place where the tap water isn't rubbish.

    You do know that Yorkshire tea is blended for Yorkshire water to hide the hideousness of the local water.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    edited July 2021

    Scotch experts right at the top of government!


    But did she really believe it or was just talking things up? That might count as an acceptable political fib for sake of morale. Politicians often claim to think certain things will happen, then admit afterwards they knew they were f*cked.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    496 retweets.....I wonder how many the now deleted original got?

    I shared a tweet earlier re: the fact that there were no paediatric intensive care beds in England this evening, which I have been informed is incorrect. I have deleted the tweet. My sincere apologies.

    https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1417936447567548419?s=20
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Sounds like we need a special 1000% tax on bottled water...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    What's religion got to do with vaccination? Or rather these covid vaccines, there are no ingredients which are forbidden.
    People will use it as an excuse if they want regardless.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    Scott_xP said:
    The arguments for Brexit were shaky at best. Dom's recent pronouncements have left them in tatters.
    No one person, however involved they were, could have such power.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    Don’t worry, I’m opposed to vaccine passports anyway. But this will be even more disgraceful if we start deciding which anti-vaxxers are acceptable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Perhaps that's a positive? It's full of, er, life.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Contrarian, that's a key aspect. The imposition is no small thing.

    I support vaccines, both generally and in particular regarding COVID-19, but I do not support compulsion, nor the attempted forcing by social/state pressure to make people who do not want a vaccine to get one.

    If that means those who choose not to get a vaccine die, that's unfortunate but also their choice.

    [I am aware this isn't fair on those unable to be vaccinated. And I don't have a good answer for that problem, but am open to persuasion if anyone does.]
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896

    Scott_xP said:

    My piece in @newstatesman on Dominic Cummings' record - extraordinary tactical but destructive successes; never succeeding in replacing what he has destroyed with something better; creating problems faster than he solved them.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/07/how-dominic-cummings-always-makes-things-worse

    A stunningly ill informed and ignorant piece by someone who doesn't seem to understand any of the subjects he talks about - not least how Parliamentary democracy works. Not really surprised you linked to such a fuck witted piece.
    What do you expect from a Conservative Cabinet Minister?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Did you know I've visited 10 different bars and restaurant this week?

    Turns out your prediction that we'd never open up was as accurate as your other pronouncements.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    I get the feeling everyone is overly pessimistic about Covid at the moment. They were overly optimistic during the Vaccine miracle of the early spring. It's just like the markets, sentiment swinging from greed to fear and back again. If Covid is like a series of stockmarket crashes then it feels we are at capitulation now. I would be tentatively buying.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    What's religion got to do with vaccination? Or rather these covid vaccines, there are no ingredients which are forbidden.
    People will use it as an excuse if they want regardless.
    I know...what i am saying is religion is irrelevant. The only exception should be based on specific health grounds, but i can't imagine many EPL players suffer from serious health conditions as you are highly unlikely to be able to perform at such an elite level with them.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,896
    MattW said:

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Sounds like we need a special 1000% tax on bottled water...
    The prices they charge, I thought there was.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679

    Scott_xP said:

    My piece in @newstatesman on Dominic Cummings' record - extraordinary tactical but destructive successes; never succeeding in replacing what he has destroyed with something better; creating problems faster than he solved them.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/07/how-dominic-cummings-always-makes-things-worse

    A stunningly ill informed and ignorant piece by someone who doesn't seem to understand any of the subjects he talks about - not least how Parliamentary democracy works. Not really surprised you linked to such a fuck witted piece.
    Eh? Gauke is lamenting the fact that your man Cummings plotted to overthrow the democratically elected British prime minister. Or is your point that such plotting by unelected 'advisers' is all fine and dandy?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Scott_xP said:

    My piece in @newstatesman on Dominic Cummings' record - extraordinary tactical but destructive successes; never succeeding in replacing what he has destroyed with something better; creating problems faster than he solved them.
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/07/how-dominic-cummings-always-makes-things-worse

    A stunningly ill informed and ignorant piece by someone who doesn't seem to understand any of the subjects he talks about - not least how Parliamentary democracy works. Not really surprised you linked to such a fuck witted piece.
    Most of Cummings’ work is like that, of course.

    Oh sorry, did you mean the Staggers article?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    edited July 2021
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    JohnO said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    North Yorkshire to become a unitary council.

    Two-tier is just daft. This is the right way to go.

    Though in reality it is really moving from 3-tier, county, district and town/parish councils to
    2-tier, ie just unitary and town/parish
    parish don't do anything and have zero real say in things (unless strangely you are within a National Park, where they have representation)..
    They do if you live in a village, they run the cemeteries, village fete, manage war memorials, public toilets, greens and playing fields, village halls, rights of way, allotments, planning permission etc ie many of the key aspects of village life.

    Plus they do neighbourhood plans now too.

    Under unitary authorities parish and town councils will become more important as district councils and county councils are scrapped as the only layer of local government under unitaries in rural areas and market towns
    I don't think Parish Councils decide on planning applications (which is the responsibility of the Borough/District) though they are an important consultee. In areas where the Community Infrastructure Levy has been adopted, the Parish should receive quite a chunk of cash.
    All planning applications have to go to Parish or Town committee first, though the district (or unitary increasingly) can overturn their decision.

    Parish and Towns also get a precept of the council tax as well as the Community Infrastructure Levy
    Once again you haven't a clue what you are talking about but are posting as if you did.

    Parish and Town councils are asked to comment on applications - that's it.

    The final decision will then be made by the council or planners depending on delegation rights (the absolute most an parish council objection will do is route the case from delegated to a planning committee decision).
    Yes I do, I am a town councillor and now on the planning committee.

    All applications have to go to the planning committee first, then go to district.

    However the chair of our planning committee is also a district councillor
    And you don't because you are looking at the process from how you view it rather than what the process actually is.

    Applications have to be processed within 12 weeks, so if a parish council doesn't respond to a planning application within the consultation period that doesn't stop it moving to the next step..

    And a rejection at parish council level doesn't result in an application being refused - it's merely an input into the planners final decision.

    Now that decision may be delegated refusal - in which case you seem to assuming that the parish council had final say in the matter, but that really isn't the case.

    Yes but all applications still have to be submitted to the parish council.

    A rejection at parish council level if upheld by district does lead to an application being refused unless the developer wins on appeal at the Inspector

    Let's try that again shall we

    A rejection at parish level = input to planner.

    Planner makes decision with documentation
    - if delegated decision sent and made.

    - if not delegated then passed to committee for decision.

    If appealed by developer - off to the inspectorate.

    There are very important nuances you are missing here - because as I've stated above you are observing a black box (based on your experiences) and using that as the basis of your knowledge instead of looking at the real processes as set out by law.

    If a rejection is made at Parish level then it is likely then it will go to district planning committee but either way the Planning Officer works for the district council anyway.

    If appealed after then off to the Inspector, so no different to what I said
    Planning officers are not servants of councillors - they can influence the local plan but at a development control level the job is ensuring that the application meets the law and (assuming its valid) the contents of the local plan. It requires district level approval for decisions to be made outside of that.

    There are a few councils where planning departments have had to be removed from the local authority because of successful ombudsman complaints (regarding undue influence of development control work) so I would be very careful with your comments above.
    Who creates the local plan? District councillors, with input from parish and town councillors via the neighbourhood plan
    I wouldn't say councillors 'create' the local plan. I'd say planning officers 'create' the plan and councillors 'approve' it (or not). Though clearly they have to create a plan that the councillors will approve.

    Councillors from the majority party decide which areas of the local authority get the most development, often in areas where an opposing party holds the council seats.

    Planning officers merely ensure it can be implemented and is legal and do the detail
    I dont know any cllrs who would admit to that logic. And if they do it speaks very Ill of them as it is entirely improper to make decisions based on irrelevant consideration.
    Yep and an invalid local plan gives developers completely free reign to build what they want.

    Which isn't a problem unless someone posted evidence that the local plan was based on invalid considerations for political advantage - so potentially rendering the plan invalid.
    Enough tweeks are made after the Planning Inspector report to ensure the local plan remains valid and the party with majority control on the council will of course get its way
    Disagree here wih @eek.

    It changes the weight of the presumption to approve; it does not give an untramelled free-for-all.
    But given that few developers will waste money on plans that go outside government policy the fact the invalid local plan shifts the weight of presumption would be enough for the inspector to give approval.

    Case in point - make the allocation of housing invalid and a developer could petition for their preferred site to be approved as well. A lot of the Middleton St George housing sites at the moment were approved because Darlington's housing allocation was wrong at the time of submission.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    The arguments for Brexit were shaky at best. Dom's recent pronouncements have left them in tatters.

    Imagine saying nobody could guarantee the effects of the Northern Ireland Protocol when you had denied, on public television, any effects and your expert source was Boris Johnson. https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1418102195724107777 https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1418177039421562883/video/1
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    What's religion got to do with vaccination? Or rather these covid vaccines, there are no ingredients which are forbidden.
    People will use it as an excuse if they want regardless.
    I know...what i am saying is religion is irrelevant. The only exception should be based on specific health grounds,
    I agree completely - that people will spuriously claim religious exemption despite it being irrelevant is why they shouldn't get the chance to use that excuse.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    Worst-hit major economy.

    Businesses closing.

    A million kids off school last week.

    Millions to self-isolate.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.

    Heading for a summer of chaos.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,780
    MattW said:

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Sounds like we need a special 1000% tax on bottled water...
    It's already got a 65,000% mark-up.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Another first for the virus, apparently - it seems to fnck with the 3D structure of infected cell genomes in order to perturb the normal functioning of the immune system.

    SARS-CoV-2 Restructures the Host Chromatin Architecture
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.453146v1.full.pdf
    ...Here, we mapped high-resolution landscapes of the 3D genome and epigenome in cells of human lung epithelial origin after acute SARS-CoV-2 infection, and our results revealed dramatic viral restructuring of the host chromatin. Hi-C 3.0 data uncovered significant defects of chromatin compartmentalization and TAD structures (Fig.4g). These are manifested at the compartment levels as wide-spread A weakening and A-B mixing, and at the TAD levels as global reduction of intra-TAD chromatin contacts. These 3D genome changes, to our knowledge, represent a unique and previously unappreciated rewiring of the mammalian 3D genome in pathological settings...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    On 3 different topics, No.10 today had a different line from @KwasiKwarteng's morning media round.

    1. Critical workers exemption.
    KK: 'I don't think it's a question of applying'
    No10: Govt will 'set out the process for how different sectors can apply'.

    2 Whether a NI rise will fund social care plans.
    KK: “I don’t see how we could increase national insurance.”
    No.10: “The PM has been clear that...no decisions have been made.”

    Asked why KK said something different, No10: “I’m here to speak on behalf of the prime minister”.

    3. Whether the Aug 16 date, for ping exemption, will definitely go ahead.
    KK: “I think, a week before 16 August, we will be able to make a decision as to whether the restriction will be lifted.”
    No.10: “The PM said yesterday that this will be the system until August 16."



    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1418178553280086019
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Too much fannying about.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    eek said:

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Because some of us live in a place where the tap water isn't rubbish.

    You do know that Yorkshire tea is blended for Yorkshire water to hide the hideousness of the local water.
    I'm not a tea drinker.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,780
    TimS said:

    I get the feeling everyone is overly pessimistic about Covid at the moment. They were overly optimistic during the Vaccine miracle of the early spring. It's just like the markets, sentiment swinging from greed to fear and back again. If Covid is like a series of stockmarket crashes then it feels we are at capitulation now. I would be tentatively buying.

    Agreed. The negative market reaction to it is overdone too.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    What's religion got to do with vaccination? Or rather these covid vaccines, there are no ingredients which are forbidden.
    Some of the vaccines were developed using stem cells linearly from aborted foetuses. Guidance to Catholics is that they can take the vaccine in good conscience, but it was left open to people to disagree with that judgement.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,587
    Roger said:

    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    Worst-hit major economy.

    Businesses closing.

    A million kids off school last week.

    Millions to self-isolate.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.

    Heading for a summer of chaos.

    At least he's not calling it the 'Johnson variant' any more. That was pathetic.

    And yet, as a Labourite, you must know, deep down in your heart, that we're better off then we'd be if Corbyn had won in 2019...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021
    Roger said:

    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    Worst-hit major economy.

    Businesses closing.

    A million kids off school last week.

    Millions to self-isolate.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.

    Heading for a summer of chaos.

    And Starmer's alternative vision? He engaged his big brain yesterday, it lasted 30 mins until it hit reality and he had to ditch it. Just test everybody every time they want to go out he said, it would be much easier and more effective than vaccine passports...

    I genuinely keep waiting for him to step up and start to provide some clear narrative about what he would do different. At the moment it is masks on trains and open a window.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    Scott_xP said:

    The arguments for Brexit were shaky at best. Dom's recent pronouncements have left them in tatters.

    Imagine saying nobody could guarantee the effects of the Northern Ireland Protocol when you had denied, on public television, any effects and your expert source was Boris Johnson. https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1418102195724107777 https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1418177039421562883/video/1
    Painful.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Because drinking bottled water makes him feel superior to pondlife who use the tap?

    Its the i phone syndrome pay more for something inferior to feel superior.


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    It's currently 22 degrees in Bristol. Must be close to a record for a night time temperature.

    Lucky you. We get that every year in Sweden. It’s called “tropical nights” - when the nighttime temperature does not fall below 20. We’ve just had a fortnight of it. Daytime temp hit 30 several times. You get used to it, but I laugh when my Highland mum describes anything over 16 as “a heatwave “.
    Here in Buchan we have had a long warm spell and some seriously warm and sunny days, but no heatwave. As someone who dislikes extremes of weather I have no problem with missing out on the "extreme heat warning" just as I had no problem staying dry whilst southern England was drowned during the Euros.
    Traditionally, my family holiday in the western Highlands and Islands, but I am seriously considering breaking that tradition and going for the east coast for our next but n ben.
    I adore the north west. I have said "Skye is Scotland" before. But, the NW is biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists. The NE is blissfully free of all that. OK so the mountains are off in the distance rather than up close and personal. But we have amazing sandy beaches, rugged cliffs with insane villages nestled at the bottom, gorgeous little towns and villages, castles, stone circles and The Queen.
    Spot on.

    “ biblically wet, infested with midge bastards and overrun with tourists”

    I used to deeply love Ardnamurchan, Mull, Moidart, Appin etc, and further north up to Sutherland, but I’m afraid things have changed. It has been tragic to witness. One used to visit for glorious silence and peace. And the kind hearted locals. Good luck with that now.
    My usual route to N.Uist includes the stretch between the Skye Bridge and Portree; Cuillins apart, I've come to dread it.
    Skye is now overrun, it’s rather sad. That road you mention is particularly grim.

    Like others I can remember when it was magnificently lonely.

    There is one corner which is still fairly tranquil - and lovely. The Sleat Peninsula in the south. It’s also one of the most interesting bits - Gaelic speaking

    I am amazed to hear that even Ardnamurchan is overcrowded. Ardnamurchan??!
    I keep meaning to fit in a trip to Raasay (birthplace of the great Gaelic bard Somhairle MacGill-Eain of coure) but never quite manage to get round to it. I'm sure there are still lots of relatively untouched places out there, largely down to how inconvenient it is to get to them and lack of boutique accommodation.
    Anecdata on Skye accommodation. A friend of mine owns a handsome Croft on a tiny offshore island. He’s done it up in fine style and turned it into ultra-luxury self catering. Very very expensive. Despite the price he’s had excellent publicity and reviews - and now it is fully booked, winter and summer, until... 2023

    My ambition is to go to the southern end of the western isles - Uist, Barra, Eriskay. They sound dreamy
    Adam?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Because drinking bottled water makes him feel superior to pondlife who use the tap?

    Its the i phone syndrome pay more for something inferior to feel superior.


    Fake news, I don't need an iPhone or to drink bottled water to know I'm superior than everybody else.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    Roger said:

    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    Worst-hit major economy.

    Businesses closing.

    A million kids off school last week.

    Millions to self-isolate.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.

    Heading for a summer of chaos.

    And Starmer's alternative vision? He engaged his big brain yesterday, it lasted 30 mins until it hit reality and he had to ditch it. Just test everybody every time they want to go out he said, it would be much easier and more effective than vaccine passports...

    I genuinely keep waiting for him to step up and start to provide some clear narrative about what he would do different. At the moment it is masks on trains and open a window.
    Some journalist should ask Starmer what the best way of measuring deaths is, and then once he's figured that out maybe he could reconsider some of the stupid things he says.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Too much fannying about.
    Its a lot easier than having to lug massive packs of bottled water back from the supermarket every week.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Double vaccinated people can still transmit it. So in your speak, because everyone is a risk to everyone else, it totally negates the worth of vaxports.

    I would put it as follows: everyone has to accept that mixing in society comes with risks as well as benefits.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092
    Roger said:

    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    I really think critics are barking up the wrong tree if they go with highest death toll. Leaving aside the issue of Russia, or accuracy of stats (eg excess deaths vs reported), if you go that route then the bigger nations are all going to be at the top and its actually easier to dodge criticism.

    Germany would have 4th highest death toll, vs France at 3rd on that measure, but the former's stats are actually a lot better, not just only just better. Likewise Italy would just about be 2nd, but their stats are quite a bit worse merely being one behind France in total deaths.

    We've got a very high toll, and an above average rate too. That stands as criticism on its own.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I’m not the top UK negotiator, but even I know that you stop sending draft agreements after you’ve finalised and signed one.

    This just looks comical.
    https://twitter.com/davidghfrost/status/1418174004825821186
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,092

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Too much fannying about.
    Its a lot easier than having to lug massive packs of bottled water back from the supermarket every week.
    He can pay someone to do that for him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Have we had any shortage of bog roll reported?

    Or mass hoarding events?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Too much fannying about.
    Its a lot easier than having to lug massive packs of bottled water back from the supermarket every week.
    Home deliveries all the way.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
    No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    glw said:

    Roger said:

    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    Worst-hit major economy.

    Businesses closing.

    A million kids off school last week.

    Millions to self-isolate.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.

    Heading for a summer of chaos.

    And Starmer's alternative vision? He engaged his big brain yesterday, it lasted 30 mins until it hit reality and he had to ditch it. Just test everybody every time they want to go out he said, it would be much easier and more effective than vaccine passports...

    I genuinely keep waiting for him to step up and start to provide some clear narrative about what he would do different. At the moment it is masks on trains and open a window.
    Some journalist should ask Starmer what the best way of measuring deaths is, and then once he's figured that out maybe he could reconsider some of the stupid things he says.
    Journalists and understanding covid related stats to hold politicans to account...come on now....ed conway still thinks vaccine effectiveness means for every 100 double vaccinated people, 21 will get covid.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
    No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
    Or accept that his actions are causing lockdowns.

    One or the other.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021
    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Double vaccinated people can still transmit it. So in your speak, because everyone is a risk to everyone else, it totally negates the worth of vaxports.

    I would put it as follows: everyone has to accept that mixing in society comes with risks as well as benefits.
    Double vax to double vax was said to be incredibly low rate, said to be a 1 in 200k chance by ONS....much lower viral loads so even better for your vaccinated system to fight it off should you be unlucky.

    Indian variant x1000 the viral load, hence why kids getting it and spreading it about, unlike alpha. Everything we can do to reduce viral load is the way forward e.g. everybody vaccinated.

    I am not arguing for covid passports by the way, just i don't have any sympathy for those who can be vaccinated saying but i am not going to be and treated like 2nd class citizen.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Because drinking bottled water makes him feel superior to pondlife who use the tap?

    Its the i phone syndrome pay more for something inferior to feel superior.


    Fake news, I don't need an iPhone or to drink bottled water to know I'm superior than to everybody else.
    Grammatically inferior. Tsk tsk. :smiley:
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
    No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
    People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    pigeon said:

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Because drinking bottled water makes him feel superior to pondlife who use the tap?

    Its the i phone syndrome pay more for something inferior to feel superior.


    Fake news, I don't need an iPhone or to drink bottled water to know I'm superior than to everybody else.
    Grammatically inferior. Tsk tsk. :smiley:
    TSE never went to GRAMMAR school! :lol:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    I believe Robert is in the process of changing from Vanilla to a new commenting system that requires you to show your vaccine QR code before being able to post.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,156

    MattW said:

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    Sounds like we need a special 1000% tax on bottled water...
    It's already got a 65,000% mark-up.
    Ok.

    64000% tax then.
  • "Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??"

    The freedoms you were "born with" are the freedom to live a short and miserable life plagued by inter-tribal warfare, disease and famine. What, sorry ? Oh, you meant the freedoms you enjoy as a member of a 21st century advanced western society ? Well...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Double vaccinated people can still transmit it. So in your speak, because everyone is a risk to everyone else, it totally negates the worth of vaxports.

    I would put it as follows: everyone has to accept that mixing in society comes with risks as well as benefits.
    Double vax to double vax was said to be incredibly low rate, said to be a 1 in 200k chance by ONS....

    I am not arguing for covid passports by the way, just i don't have any sympathy for those who can be vaccinated saying but i am not going to be and treated like 2nd class citizen.
    Yeah a breakthrough vaccinated case is less likely to transmit to anyone else (Unvaccinated or vaccinated) because their viral load will be far lower.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    pigeon said:

    If you don't like tap water, why wouldn't you just get filter fitted?

    Because drinking bottled water makes him feel superior to pondlife who use the tap?

    Its the i phone syndrome pay more for something inferior to feel superior.


    Fake news, I don't need an iPhone or to drink bottled water to know I'm superior than to everybody else.
    Grammatically inferior. Tsk tsk. :smiley:
    I'm blaming auto-correct on my iPad.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
    No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
    Here's an interesting thing.

    In the US, where guns and morons are common.... A common(ish) accident is the gun-that-was-unloaded-but-bang! Someone is playing around with a gun they think is unloaded, but someone else loaded it. They pull the trigger. Someone dies or gets injured.

    This seems to be a one in a million accident (literally).

    Yet, if I were to step into my garden and point the Holland & Holland at the neighbours and go "click" - well, I think that some here who are apparently blasé about risk would be screaming.

    Why is that? It's an interest thing to work out.....
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Roger said:

    Calling Philip Thompson and the rapid rebuttal unit. Sir Keir Starmer has just said.......

    Highest death toll in Europe.

    Worst-hit major economy.

    Businesses closing.

    A million kids off school last week.

    Millions to self-isolate.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice.

    Heading for a summer of chaos.

    Since you pinged me by writing my name, this is why Starmer ranks lower than Johnson in most surveys for integrity. He's even more of a liar than Boris Johnson.

    Highest death toll in Europe. - Outright lie. The UK is about 21st in Europe for excess deaths.

    Worst-hit major economy. - Lies. The UK measures GDP differently to other nations that means our GDP was deflated more, on the like-for-like basis on when countries are expected to recover to pre-crisis levels the UK is expected to recover faster than almost every other nation in Europe.

    Businesses closing. - Disingenuous lie. Some businesses will always be closing, but businesses are closing at a slower rate than they were pre-crisis and job vacancies are higher than they were pre-crisis.

    A million kids off school last week. - Actually true. Though he's made no alternative suggestions other than to keep wearing masks, which wait-for-it were still required last week so that doesn't make the difference.

    Millions to self-isolate. - Actually true. Though he's made no alternative suggestions.

    Boris Johnson let a new variant in and is causing mass confusion on public health advice. - Pathetic point scoring. Delta is all over the world wherever the border is not closed, its even in Australia now, and the UK is so world beating on vaccinations there is no reason our border should be closed now.

    Heading for a summer of chaos. - No, we've got one of the best in the world rates of vaccinations, the best in Europe relaxation of restrictions and isolation is due to end last month. If we'd joined the European vaccine scheme like Starmer wanted then we'd be even further behind like the rest of Europe are and have even more dead.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I believe Robert is in the process of changing from Vanilla to a new commenting system that requires you to show your vaccine QR code before being able to post.

    As long as you are not required to show a Radiohead tattoo
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    It is no surprise that we are falling off a cliff. In fact it's to be welcomed so we can start mending fences as quickly as possible..

    Apart from the headline stuff Cummings explained in some detail how the UK was manipulated into leaving the EU when even he (as chief manipulator) doubted it was in our best interest. When Laura K asked him why he and his (imbecile) front man told so many lies ie.Turkey were poised to join the EU he glibly replied that it wasn't his job to explain the small print.

    It was chilling. Ruthless ambition by the puppet and puppet master meant no holes were barred. From an advertising perspective the technique was as simple as it was wretched as he couldn't resist explaining......

    People with a slight prejudice had it aroused until it became a fear which as the campaign wore on became an all consuming fear. The reasons for choosing Turkey were as calculated as they were insidious

    It was impossible to refute because Cameron in the past had said Turkey joining was 'a long term aspiration' and he didn't wish to offend the Turks by resiling from it. They also had an irresistable number of Muslims living there....

    'if we remained in the EU 70 million Turks could be on our doorstep within a year and we could do nothing to stop them' became a virtual slogan..... Cummings in front of Lara K could hardly hide his gloat


    No need to explain why this wouldn't have passed any advertising code known to man. Only the dimmest wouldn't know and they don't post here. But those now in power and those who put them there have shown how easily a country-even a reasonably civilised one-can be manipulated when there are no rules. And even questioning is severely restricted

    The disappointing part is that in many ways it's the fault of the advertising industry. We've become accustomed to believing what advertisers tell us because they are obliged not only to tell the truth but to be able to substantiate all claims. There is no such thing as 'small print'

    PS. I saw a 60's press ad for a Porsche 911 yesterday. Above a photo of the car were two lines

    'Small Penis?

    Have we got the car for you!'

    Catchy post with a strong central point. Here's OJ musing on similar lines but in more of an OJ than a Roger way -

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/21/cummings-england-political-westminster-elite
    One thing I've picked up over the years, (from Cummings, Trump and elsewhere) is if you are going to make stuff up in an ad / post leave other things to argue about.

    Turkey joining the EU and the £350m a week are great examples of this. There is enough element of truth in it that even if they argue the point (it's £350m total but we get £200m back) it just re-enforces the core message.
    Yep. Although I'm not as livid about those 2 examples as many of my Remainer compadres are. Brexit is an act of economic and cultural vandalism. It's being done for reasons that are the opposite of noble. The better side of our nature lost to its darker twin. But Leave won fair and square as far as I'm concerned. I actually think the 52/48 understates the mood of the country. Makes it appear a finer judgment than it really was. In FPTP terms it was a landslide. Almost anywhere you go in England outside London, a majority wanted out of the EU. So out we have come. Democracy.

    Trump, different story. Everything that issues forth from his odd pouting mouth is both nasty and a lie. I both disagree with what he says and would totally NOT defend to the death his right to say it. Deplatform and cancel is the way forward there, for me. Preferably written into law. A bespoke and carefully worded piece of legislation applying purely to him, hence dealing with the 'slippery slope' objection.
    But this is not the case

    I despise Trump, and loathe his malign influence on US politics, but he said some sane, truthful stuff amidst the weird gibberish

    eg he was the first big global politician to say the virus probably came from a lab. God knows why he said it. The week before he was praising Xi. A week later he was on to something else. Likely it just jumped out of his crazy head, after an intelligence briefing

    But what he said was true and important. Unfortunately the fact that HE said it meant the lab leak hypothesis then became toxic and was effectively suppressed for a year

    I note that today China has outright refused to co-operate with the next stage of WHO’s investigation of coronavirus and its origins
    So just another lie because the virus POSSIBLY came from a lab and is today still 2nd favourite to natural. I've done the legwork now. The lab thesis cannot - must not - be mocked but to rank it as the most likely scenario is a bridge too far.

    It also ticks the "nasty" box in his case. His motives for pushing the lab - and in fact bioweapon - notion were 100% sordid.

    So there we go - another nasty lie sliding from the mean little mouth of Donald J Trump to join the 156,648 others. And counting if he ever gets his platform back.
    It probably came from the lab

    If it did not, all China has to do is publish all the Wuhan laboratory data it mysteriously ‘deleted’ in late 2019. Why did they delete it? Why will they not reveal it? They have everything to gain by exonerating themselves, yet they won’t, because, I suspect, they can’t

    It amazes me how bien pensants like yourself are still so reluctant to go near this theory, even when they are quite happy to believe other unsavoury things about the Xi regime. eg the Uighur ‘genocide’. I am sure it is a mixture of anti-Trump hysteria (‘everything he said was a vile lie!) mixed with class-anxious bourgeois distaste for plebeian ‘conspiracy theories’ - you hate to be associated with anything working class, as you spent your life escaping it

    Ditto Brexit
    Chinese information paranoia isn't really evidence either way for the lab leak hypothesis. They are are totalitarian regime who simply won't accept any external investigation or any obligation to provide evidence to the international community.

    There's very good evidence for what they're doing to the Uighurs which dispels any reasonable doubt. That kind of evidence simply doesn't exist for the lab leak; it's possible, but is not proven. And there's considerable biological evidence consistent with a natural origin.
    What’s the biological evidence?

    (Especially for the furin cleavage site mutations)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Scott_xP said:

    I believe Robert is in the process of changing from Vanilla to a new commenting system that requires you to show your vaccine QR code before being able to post.

    As long as you are not required to show a Radiohead tattoo
    Much worse than that, when you visit PB the site will automatically play a Radiohead song in the background for as long as you are on the site.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Scott_xP said:

    On 3 different topics, No.10 today had a different line from @KwasiKwarteng's morning media round.

    1. Critical workers exemption.
    KK: 'I don't think it's a question of applying'
    No10: Govt will 'set out the process for how different sectors can apply'.

    2 Whether a NI rise will fund social care plans.
    KK: “I don’t see how we could increase national insurance.”
    No.10: “The PM has been clear that...no decisions have been made.”

    Asked why KK said something different, No10: “I’m here to speak on behalf of the prime minister”.

    3. Whether the Aug 16 date, for ping exemption, will definitely go ahead.
    KK: “I think, a week before 16 August, we will be able to make a decision as to whether the restriction will be lifted.”
    No.10: “The PM said yesterday that this will be the system until August 16."



    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1418178553280086019

    It's just a rolling shitshow with the Cabinet completely out of the loop.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Scott_xP said:

    I believe Robert is in the process of changing from Vanilla to a new commenting system that requires you to show your vaccine QR code before being able to post.

    As long as you are not required to show a Radiohead tattoo
    Shhh, RCE was keeping that rule quiet until we had switched systems.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Double vaccinated people can still transmit it. So in your speak, because everyone is a risk to everyone else, it totally negates the worth of vaxports.

    I would put it as follows: everyone has to accept that mixing in society comes with risks as well as benefits.
    Double vax to double vax was said to be incredibly low rate, said to be a 1 in 200k chance by ONS....

    I am not arguing for covid passports by the way, just i don't have any sympathy for those who can be vaccinated saying but i am not going to be and treated like 2nd class citizen.
    I am not asking for your sympathy or special treatment. IF you want I would contract out of NHS treatment and take my tax money with me.

    All I am asking for is the return of liberties I had for most of my life and regard as rights. You want those rights denied on the spurious premise that they will keep you 'safe'.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Scott_xP said:

    The arguments for Brexit were shaky at best. Dom's recent pronouncements have left them in tatters.

    Imagine saying nobody could guarantee the effects of the Northern Ireland Protocol when you had denied, on public television, any effects and your expert source was Boris Johnson. https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1418102195724107777 https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1418177039421562883/video/1
    Painful.
    That Kwarteng interview was awful. Unlike Robert "the decision has nothing to do with who I sit next to at fundraising dinners: Jenrick, Kwazi is uncomfortable when openly lying.

    He knew that what he was saying was utter shit and couldn't hide it. They should send Jenrick out like Comical Ali as the press spokesperson all the time.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,780

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
    It's better than losing a load of freedoms you were born with because of bloody Brexit.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited July 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    I believe Robert is in the process of changing from Vanilla to a new commenting system that requires you to show your vaccine QR code before being able to post.

    As long as you are not required to show a Radiohead tattoo
    Much worse than that, when you visit PB the site will automatically play a Radiohead song in the background for as long as you are on the site.
    That shold happen to all vaccine hold outs...where ever you go and have to interact with other people, they get blasted with radiohead live at Glastonbury. They wouldn't last the day before they were book8ng their shots
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Oh so I have to lose a bunch of the freedoms I was born with to rule out the pretty small eventuality that you might get a bad cold??

    Shall I come over there and wipe your backside for you? Do you need your nappy changing? FFS.
    No you need to do it because your selfishness may cause some people to die especially those who can't get vaccinated for valid reasons. So stop being a selfish prat and get vaccinated.
    People who can't get vaccinated can catch covid from the double vaccinated.
    Since you freely admit you could get vaccinated but choose not too, that is totally irrelevant.

    Indeed, since there are people who cannot get vaccinated, it is up to the rest of us to try and protect them by getting jabbed.

    Because the alternative is perpetual lockdown. Which you also claim to be against.

    I have to say I find you the most nauseating hypocrite on this site. And that’s in a field of stiff competition (Topping springs to mind). It’s not just that you’re a hypocrite and a liar, it’s the sheer nastiness with which you abuse other posters, as at 1.03, for pointing out your flaws.

    The fact you then whine about getting a ‘dog’s abuse’ is even worse. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it out.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    What do you think is the difference between the water you drink and tap water? On a meaningful scale?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Mortimer said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9811863/Premier-League-stars-match-day-staff-face-compulsory-Covid-jabs-new-government-plan.html

    Any players unwilling to be vaccinated would be able to seek an exemption on medical or religious grounds, although the process for doing so has yet to be established.

    If that’s true, we’re heading for trouble. What an utter shitshow.

    Here's the religious list for vaccinations.

    https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion
    I have no problem with people not getting vaccinated for whatever reason.

    But it is totally unacceptable to have vaccine passports without banning all anti-vaxxers from society.
    But that is what vaccine passports do. They ban people from society.

    I have not been vaxxed and so I will not be able to go to a concert or big football game or travel abroad. It looks like work places will be spared for now so I will retain my livelihood.

    YOu will be able to enjoy all sorts of things I won't because you have been vaxxed.

    We will be a two-tier society to your benefit, socially.
    There is a simple solution to this.....go and get vaccinated.
    Or drop your draconian demands. You have been double vaxxed, you are safe, and you can choose to visit big events if you wish.

    So what is it to you? What danger am I to you?

    Double vaccinated people can still catch it, especially from unvaccinated individuals as viral load is much higher. So you are a risk to everybody else.
    Double vaccinated people can still transmit it. So in your speak, because everyone is a risk to everyone else, it totally negates the worth of vaxports.

    I would put it as follows: everyone has to accept that mixing in society comes with risks as well as benefits.
    Double vax to double vax was said to be incredibly low rate, said to be a 1 in 200k chance by ONS....much lower viral loads so even better for your vaccinated system to fight it off should you be unlucky.

    Indian variant x1000 the viral load, hence why kids getting it and spreading it about, unlike alpha. Everything we can do to reduce viral load is the way forward e.g. everybody vaccinated.

    I am not arguing for covid passports by the way, just i don't have any sympathy for those who can be vaccinated saying but i am not going to be and treated like 2nd class citizen.
    What is the acceptable level of risk that you think you should bear to live your life.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,780

    On topic, twelve items weren't delivered in our weekly home delivery yesterday.

    Have to admit the Sainsbury's and Waitrose on Western Road in Brighton have been very empty during the last week.

    I had to buy Waitrose's own brand water earlier on this week, it is the end of the days.

    Oh dear. Is your tap broken? That's unfortunate timing.
    I haven't drunk tap water since probably 1992.

    Pennines water can be quite the challenge.

    Southern tap water is the most minging of the lot, it has foam in it.

    Why would anyone want to drink tap water? Fish fuck in it.
    What do you think is the difference between the water you drink and tap water? On a meaningful scale?
    Apart from tap water meeting higher safety standards, you mean?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    That shold happen to all vaccine hold outs...where ever you go and have to interact with other people, they get blasted with radiohead live at Glastonbury. They wouldn't last the day before they were book8ng their shots

    But the microchip in the vaccine allows you to receive the broadcast...
This discussion has been closed.