How the PM’s leader ratings are moving – politicalbetting.com

Comments
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First0
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Totally off topic but ITVs cooking with the stars is truly terrible.0
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1. They still have some pretty severe restrictons across China, plus lots of travel quarantiningmoonshine said:
You see the thing is, this is what they did in Wuhan after the horse had long since bolted. But I haven’t heard of them doing it anywhere else. It’s hard to comprehend the sheer mass of humanity that moves in Chinese golden week unless you’ve seen it.Leon said:
Tish tish. They're just REALLY good at stapling people inside houses. Don't worry yourself about this. Next questionmoonshine said:
It’s the great mystery of our age how covid didn’t ravage every corner of China, given the millions of people that travelled from or passed through Wuhan the week before their Chinese New Year lockdown.Leon said:
Bloody hellCasino_Royale said:
The Telegraph says up to 5 million.Leon said:Asia is quite concerning now
Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck
Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering
If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?
Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history
I recall reading the claim, weeks back, that the Indian death toll was understated "ten to fifteen times" judging by the amount of cremations taking place compared with normality
Something in me rebelled against this, and pigeon holed it as "alarmism"
Now it seems it is true. Grim
I wonder if we will ever know the true death toll in China. It beggars belief that 1.4 billion Indians can suffer 5 million dead, with more to come, and neighbouring China, with a similarly vast population, has just.... 4,600 dead?
A thousand times fewer. Really? How?
No one serious seems to want to talk about it because it raises quite uncomfortable possibilities. Better to just ignore it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090007/china-confirmed-and-suspected-wuhan-coronavirus-cases-region/
Now sure we can look at these stats and note the implausibility of them. But it is very interesting how we never saw visible signs of stress anywhere else outside of Wuhan itself. The Communist Party in inland China is not known for its competence.
There is something decidedly odd about this story that does not hang together. My personal pet theory is that sarscov2 ravaged through most of east Asia in 2019 under the radar but perhaps with a less severe strain. And this had the effect of taking out the vulnerable before we even realised there was a pandemic, and allowed the build up of background immunity without anyone realising. Take a look at the 2019 mortality stats in Japan and Singapore, two countries with high rates of travel from China and reliable stats. You’ll see why I lean this way. Also note the evidence of infections in Europe as early as October 2019.
Doubtless someone will have the evidence to prove why this is wrong. Fair enough if so. But what is the answer then?
2. They do still have local flare ups
3. And they do sometimes go full lockdown at a City level
4. Local governors in China know that they need to tell the world they are Covid free, whatever thereality is0 -
FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.0 -
I don't think there were major flare ups outside Wuhan. When things get really out of control, there is no hiding it.rcs1000 said:
1. They still have some pretty severe restrictons across China, plus lots of travel quarantiningmoonshine said:
You see the thing is, this is what they did in Wuhan after the horse had long since bolted. But I haven’t heard of them doing it anywhere else. It’s hard to comprehend the sheer mass of humanity that moves in Chinese golden week unless you’ve seen it.Leon said:
Tish tish. They're just REALLY good at stapling people inside houses. Don't worry yourself about this. Next questionmoonshine said:
It’s the great mystery of our age how covid didn’t ravage every corner of China, given the millions of people that travelled from or passed through Wuhan the week before their Chinese New Year lockdown.Leon said:
Bloody hellCasino_Royale said:
The Telegraph says up to 5 million.Leon said:Asia is quite concerning now
Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck
Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering
If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?
Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history
I recall reading the claim, weeks back, that the Indian death toll was understated "ten to fifteen times" judging by the amount of cremations taking place compared with normality
Something in me rebelled against this, and pigeon holed it as "alarmism"
Now it seems it is true. Grim
I wonder if we will ever know the true death toll in China. It beggars belief that 1.4 billion Indians can suffer 5 million dead, with more to come, and neighbouring China, with a similarly vast population, has just.... 4,600 dead?
A thousand times fewer. Really? How?
No one serious seems to want to talk about it because it raises quite uncomfortable possibilities. Better to just ignore it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090007/china-confirmed-and-suspected-wuhan-coronavirus-cases-region/
Now sure we can look at these stats and note the implausibility of them. But it is very interesting how we never saw visible signs of stress anywhere else outside of Wuhan itself. The Communist Party in inland China is not known for its competence.
There is something decidedly odd about this story that does not hang together. My personal pet theory is that sarscov2 ravaged through most of east Asia in 2019 under the radar but perhaps with a less severe strain. And this had the effect of taking out the vulnerable before we even realised there was a pandemic, and allowed the build up of background immunity without anyone realising. Take a look at the 2019 mortality stats in Japan and Singapore, two countries with high rates of travel from China and reliable stats. You’ll see why I lean this way. Also note the evidence of infections in Europe as early as October 2019.
Doubtless someone will have the evidence to prove why this is wrong. Fair enough if so. But what is the answer then?
2. They do still have local flare ups
3. And they do sometimes go full lockdown at a City level
4. Local governors in China know that they need to tell the world they are Covid free, whatever thereality is
They may struggle with Delta though. Other Asian countries have.0 -
Or they just designed the bug in their own lab and therefore they knew what to do pretty quickly, asrcs1000 said:
1. They still have some pretty severe restrictons across China, plus lots of travel quarantiningmoonshine said:
You see the thing is, this is what they did in Wuhan after the horse had long since bolted. But I haven’t heard of them doing it anywhere else. It’s hard to comprehend the sheer mass of humanity that moves in Chinese golden week unless you’ve seen it.Leon said:
Tish tish. They're just REALLY good at stapling people inside houses. Don't worry yourself about this. Next questionmoonshine said:
It’s the great mystery of our age how covid didn’t ravage every corner of China, given the millions of people that travelled from or passed through Wuhan the week before their Chinese New Year lockdown.Leon said:
Bloody hellCasino_Royale said:
The Telegraph says up to 5 million.Leon said:Asia is quite concerning now
Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck
Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering
If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?
Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history
I recall reading the claim, weeks back, that the Indian death toll was understated "ten to fifteen times" judging by the amount of cremations taking place compared with normality
Something in me rebelled against this, and pigeon holed it as "alarmism"
Now it seems it is true. Grim
I wonder if we will ever know the true death toll in China. It beggars belief that 1.4 billion Indians can suffer 5 million dead, with more to come, and neighbouring China, with a similarly vast population, has just.... 4,600 dead?
A thousand times fewer. Really? How?
No one serious seems to want to talk about it because it raises quite uncomfortable possibilities. Better to just ignore it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090007/china-confirmed-and-suspected-wuhan-coronavirus-cases-region/
Now sure we can look at these stats and note the implausibility of them. But it is very interesting how we never saw visible signs of stress anywhere else outside of Wuhan itself. The Communist Party in inland China is not known for its competence.
There is something decidedly odd about this story that does not hang together. My personal pet theory is that sarscov2 ravaged through most of east Asia in 2019 under the radar but perhaps with a less severe strain. And this had the effect of taking out the vulnerable before we even realised there was a pandemic, and allowed the build up of background immunity without anyone realising. Take a look at the 2019 mortality stats in Japan and Singapore, two countries with high rates of travel from China and reliable stats. You’ll see why I lean this way. Also note the evidence of infections in Europe as early as October 2019.
Doubtless someone will have the evidence to prove why this is wrong. Fair enough if so. But what is the answer then?
2. They do still have local flare ups
3. And they do sometimes go full lockdown at a City level
4. Local governors in China know that they need to tell the world they are Covid free, whatever thereality is
Whoops
Sorry1 -
My problem with "safe and legal routes" is exactly this.Pagan2 said:FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.
What it means is making it even easier to get here, and you could easily increase the numbers ten or twenty fold if we did that.
We'd end up with overburdened social services and impromptu camps/ shanty towns outside almost every population centre of significance in the south-east.0 -
The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
3 -
Much as I dislike Cameron I will admit he had the right idea take a quota from the refugee campsCasino_Royale said:
My problem with "safe and legal routes" is exactly this.Pagan2 said:FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.
What it means is making it even easier to get here, and you could easily increase the numbers ten or twenty fold if we did that.
We'd end up with overburdened social services and impromptu camps/ shanty towns outside almost every population centre of significance in the south-east.2 -
That is a much fairer system than the current survival of the fittest approach.Pagan2 said:
Much as I dislike Cameron I will admit he had the right idea take a quota from the refugee campsCasino_Royale said:
My problem with "safe and legal routes" is exactly this.Pagan2 said:FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.
What it means is making it even easier to get here, and you could easily increase the numbers ten or twenty fold if we did that.
We'd end up with overburdened social services and impromptu camps/ shanty towns outside almost every population centre of significance in the south-east.4 -
One thing I do agree with Dominic Cummings about: it's wrong for Carrie Johnson to be allegedly seeking to interfere with government appointments/policy.1
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Who else do you vote for if you care about this issue? There is such a shameful vacuum in English politics right now where an Opposition should be.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Apart from anything taking young males from countries that have been wartorn for most of their teenage years isn't likely to mean you are bringing in well socialized individuals and no I am not claiming its the young males fault just stating things the way they areRobD said:
That is a much fairer system than the current survival of the fittest approach.Pagan2 said:
Much as I dislike Cameron I will admit he had the right idea take a quota from the refugee campsCasino_Royale said:
My problem with "safe and legal routes" is exactly this.Pagan2 said:FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.
What it means is making it even easier to get here, and you could easily increase the numbers ten or twenty fold if we did that.
We'd end up with overburdened social services and impromptu camps/ shanty towns outside almost every population centre of significance in the south-east.0 -
Voters who are most appalled by that will obviously stick with Boris over Labour or the LDs, so unless Farage returns it will not be a major issue.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
There is only so much they can do anyway without Macron's help in keeping them in France otherwise all they can do is pick them up where they can0 -
He absolutely did.Pagan2 said:
Much as I dislike Cameron I will admit he had the right idea take a quota from the refugee campsCasino_Royale said:
My problem with "safe and legal routes" is exactly this.Pagan2 said:FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.
What it means is making it even easier to get here, and you could easily increase the numbers ten or twenty fold if we did that.
We'd end up with overburdened social services and impromptu camps/ shanty towns outside almost every population centre of significance in the south-east.0 -
-
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Tory voters can abstain, which can be very damaging if it happens en masseHYUFD said:
Voters who are most appalled by that will obviously stick with Boris over Labour or the LDs, so unless Farage returns it will not be a major issue.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
There is only so much they can do anyway without Macron's help in keeping them in France otherwise all they can do is pick them up where they can
And yes, Farage could return-1 -
I assume that Macron is the one supplying them with boats.HYUFD said:
Voters who are most appalled by that will obviously stick with Boris over Labour or the LDs, so unless Farage returns it will not be a major issue.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
There is only so much they can do anyway without Macron's help in keeping them in France otherwise all they can do is pick them up where they can0 -
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked-1 -
How do you stop a spouse influencing their partner? It’s a fact of life.Andy_JS said:One thing I do agree with Dominic Cummings about: it's wrong for Carrie Johnson to be allegedly seeking to interfere with government appointments/policy.
0 -
When I said “millions” travelled from or through Wuhan the week before Chinese New Year, I wasn’t being hyperbolic of course. These were the communist party’s own figures before being taken offline shortly after publication by China Railways. Those trains were the perfect super spreading event, given by that point it’s clear there was aerosolised transmission. Peculiar…Foxy said:
I don't think there were major flare ups outside Wuhan. When things get really out of control, there is no hiding it.rcs1000 said:
1. They still have some pretty severe restrictons across China, plus lots of travel quarantiningmoonshine said:
You see the thing is, this is what they did in Wuhan after the horse had long since bolted. But I haven’t heard of them doing it anywhere else. It’s hard to comprehend the sheer mass of humanity that moves in Chinese golden week unless you’ve seen it.Leon said:
Tish tish. They're just REALLY good at stapling people inside houses. Don't worry yourself about this. Next questionmoonshine said:
It’s the great mystery of our age how covid didn’t ravage every corner of China, given the millions of people that travelled from or passed through Wuhan the week before their Chinese New Year lockdown.Leon said:
Bloody hellCasino_Royale said:
The Telegraph says up to 5 million.Leon said:Asia is quite concerning now
Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck
Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering
If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?
Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history
I recall reading the claim, weeks back, that the Indian death toll was understated "ten to fifteen times" judging by the amount of cremations taking place compared with normality
Something in me rebelled against this, and pigeon holed it as "alarmism"
Now it seems it is true. Grim
I wonder if we will ever know the true death toll in China. It beggars belief that 1.4 billion Indians can suffer 5 million dead, with more to come, and neighbouring China, with a similarly vast population, has just.... 4,600 dead?
A thousand times fewer. Really? How?
No one serious seems to want to talk about it because it raises quite uncomfortable possibilities. Better to just ignore it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090007/china-confirmed-and-suspected-wuhan-coronavirus-cases-region/
Now sure we can look at these stats and note the implausibility of them. But it is very interesting how we never saw visible signs of stress anywhere else outside of Wuhan itself. The Communist Party in inland China is not known for its competence.
There is something decidedly odd about this story that does not hang together. My personal pet theory is that sarscov2 ravaged through most of east Asia in 2019 under the radar but perhaps with a less severe strain. And this had the effect of taking out the vulnerable before we even realised there was a pandemic, and allowed the build up of background immunity without anyone realising. Take a look at the 2019 mortality stats in Japan and Singapore, two countries with high rates of travel from China and reliable stats. You’ll see why I lean this way. Also note the evidence of infections in Europe as early as October 2019.
Doubtless someone will have the evidence to prove why this is wrong. Fair enough if so. But what is the answer then?
2. They do still have local flare ups
3. And they do sometimes go full lockdown at a City level
4. Local governors in China know that they need to tell the world they are Covid free, whatever thereality is
They may struggle with Delta though. Other Asian countries have.0 -
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.0 -
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked-1 -
Macron's focus is obviously getting as many out of France as possible to keep his 2017 vote from going to Le PenSandyRentool said:
I assume that Macron is the one supplying them with boats.HYUFD said:
Voters who are most appalled by that will obviously stick with Boris over Labour or the LDs, so unless Farage returns it will not be a major issue.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
There is only so much they can do anyway without Macron's help in keeping them in France otherwise all they can do is pick them up where they can2 -
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
FPT - but HYUFD, you really are Anglocentric. It was the Scots who began, and who ended, the Wars of the Covenant. From 1639 to 1746. The Scots didn't change sides. The Stuarts did.HYUFD said:
The war was primarily the King and then his son v the English Parliament and Cromwell.Foxy said:
Or the War of the Three Kingdoms as the less Anglo-centric Britons call them.HYUFD said:
The Great Plague of 1665-66 was shortly after the English civil war of coursemoonshine said:
Black Death led to such overwhelming mortality that even now, you can visit home counties villages and surmise why that field and that field next to the old church were never built on. In some cases the village lies a couple of miles from the ancient church, as the inhabitants scrambled to move away from the pits. And this is largely from the less severe 17th century plague, not the almost completely devastating plague of the 14th century. I often sit in my very old house and wonder what I’d hear if the walls could talk.Leon said:
It is indeed reassuring to know that the Black Death was, in fact, statistically worse than what we are experiencing nowHYUFD said:
Yes but in 1918 they had just come off millions of dead in WW1 too and the Black Death was the same time as the Hundred Years WarLeon said:If India has truly suffered 5 million dead, with more to come - relentlessly, it comes - then it looks like Covid will probably kill 25-30 million humans in its first two or three years, maybe a lot more
That makes it likely the third worst pandemic in history, in sheer numbers, behind only the Flu of 1918 and the Black Death
We are, unfortunately, living through interesting times
The Scots changed sides, first supporting Parliament against King Charles 1st, then Prince Charles v Cromwell.
Ireland was primarily Catholics ultimately supportive of the King against Protestant settlers Cromwell ultimately invaded to support2 -
They can push but they arent in power and pushing will ensure they never are. How many refugees do you call a halt at? That is a serious question. Then answer the question "how do I explain to people they are going to get worse services and pay more tax because we brought in x million refugees. You wonder why people have contempt for labour....we all still remember "Only 13000 will migrants maximum will come from accession countries". Well they were about 100 times out then so whatever figure you give everyone is going to multiply by 100Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
I said the other day there were emerging threats to Boris's right flank, that could kibosh his coalition and knock him out of office.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
This is one of them. Dancing with dogma on Net Zero, ending up advocating we eat mung beans and algae forevermore, whilst never flying abroad again and shiver in our cold homes, is another.0 -
It is absolutely the right way to do it.Pagan2 said:
Much as I dislike Cameron I will admit he had the right idea take a quota from the refugee campsCasino_Royale said:
My problem with "safe and legal routes" is exactly this.Pagan2 said:FPT
How many syrian refugees were there...7 million or so? Are you seriously arguing we should take them all if they want to come? And the next year another 5 million from some other war torn shit hole? How many is your limit. Because this is exactly what you are arguing for with your "If people want to come we should let them" and fuck the rest of us as our services get overwhelmed and our standard of living dropsTaz said:
If they wish to come here for whatever reason. Family, diaspora already here, unaccompanied child, we should let them. I can’t see why we wouldn’tPagan2 said:
Or how about france grants them asylum and they can start a new lifeTaz said:
These are vulnerable, desperate, human beings fleeing violence and persecution.alex_ said:UK and France agree deal to tackle rise in Channel crossings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909188
We need to agree with France a means of processing and approving their requests in France, not bloody Rwanda, and bringing them to the UK to start their new life.
What it means is making it even easier to get here, and you could easily increase the numbers ten or twenty fold if we did that.
We'd end up with overburdened social services and impromptu camps/ shanty towns outside almost every population centre of significance in the south-east.
We're not dicks, but the way to become a refugee in the UK is by applying properly near to your home country, and not by trekking halfway across the world.2 -
When answering think of this there are 82.4 million displaced persons currentlyPagan2 said:
They can push but they arent in power and pushing will ensure they never are. How many refugees do you call a halt at? That is a serious question. Then answer the question "how do I explain to people they are going to get worse services and pay more tax because we brought in x million refugees. You wonder why people have contempt for labour....we all still remember "Only 13000 will migrants maximum will come from accession countries". Well they were about 100 times out then so whatever figure you give everyone is going to multiply by 100Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
source https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/06/unhcr-how-many-refugees/
If we as a country say anyone who wants to come is welcome do you think most will say a) thanks but I like my refugee camp. or b) Yes please
0 -
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Are the same people who say as an island we should have kept Covid out the same ones saying we should let all migrants in?MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked1 -
Have you considered how a proud maritime nation like France is unable to spot groups of people massed on the beaches at night fall by human traffickers, leaving the coastline unaccosted? Have you wondered what might happen to the business fortunes of those human traffickers if you induced demand in their services? Macron’s immorality disgusts me for his tacit approval of trafficking, plenty will be drowning as a result just so he doesn’t have to work harder to control his land borders or integrate immigrants.Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
But we can't let people drown (as I well know from he outrage at a tiny joke on this theme!)MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We really can't
What we can do is pick them up and take them to another faraway country, agreeable to this, a country that is safe but not particularly nice. Rwanda? It will cost us a lot of money at first, but save us bigtime in the end, as migrants realise there is no point going to the UK
Until we do that - ie what the Aussies did - they will come1 -
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Sorry but SKS and his team need to do what is right and if that means losing the red wall to gain other seats so be it.SandyRentool said:
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.0 -
He does it because it is popular with French voters.moonshine said:
Have you considered how a proud maritime nation like France is unable to spot groups of people massed on the beaches at night fall by human traffickers, leaving the coastline unaccosted? Have you wondered what might happen to the business fortunes of those human traffickers if you induced demand in their services? Macron’s immorality disgusts me for his tacit approval of trafficking, plenty will be drowning as a result just so he doesn’t have to work harder to control his land borders or integrate immigrants.Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Then they can get asylum in France or any number of safe EU countries they pass through before trying to get here. It's time to close the border properly. What they want is of little relevance.Taz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
The Bishops Wars ended 2 years before the English civil war began.Carnyx said:
FPT - but HYUFD, you really are Anglocentric. It was the Scots who began, and who ended, the Wars of the Covenant. From 1639 to 1746. The Scots didn't change sides. The Stuarts did.HYUFD said:
The war was primarily the King and then his son v the English Parliament and Cromwell.Foxy said:
Or the War of the Three Kingdoms as the less Anglo-centric Britons call them.HYUFD said:
The Great Plague of 1665-66 was shortly after the English civil war of coursemoonshine said:
Black Death led to such overwhelming mortality that even now, you can visit home counties villages and surmise why that field and that field next to the old church were never built on. In some cases the village lies a couple of miles from the ancient church, as the inhabitants scrambled to move away from the pits. And this is largely from the less severe 17th century plague, not the almost completely devastating plague of the 14th century. I often sit in my very old house and wonder what I’d hear if the walls could talk.Leon said:
It is indeed reassuring to know that the Black Death was, in fact, statistically worse than what we are experiencing nowHYUFD said:
Yes but in 1918 they had just come off millions of dead in WW1 too and the Black Death was the same time as the Hundred Years WarLeon said:If India has truly suffered 5 million dead, with more to come - relentlessly, it comes - then it looks like Covid will probably kill 25-30 million humans in its first two or three years, maybe a lot more
That makes it likely the third worst pandemic in history, in sheer numbers, behind only the Flu of 1918 and the Black Death
We are, unfortunately, living through interesting times
The Scots changed sides, first supporting Parliament against King Charles 1st, then Prince Charles v Cromwell.
Ireland was primarily Catholics ultimately supportive of the King against Protestant settlers Cromwell ultimately invaded to support
0 -
So, you don't want Labour re-elected then?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
How many is the limit? Until you answer that question your virtue-signalling bleats are valuelessTaz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
On the other hand, do make this Labour policy - as it guarantees a Corbyn-style defeat next time around, only worse0 -
They are absolutely economic migrants. They fled war. They are in a safe country. Further movement is economic based not safety basedTaz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Refugees escaping from France… you’ll have to explain that one.Taz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
It won't gain him other seats because most of the southern voters dont want them eitherTaz said:
Sorry but SKS and his team need to do what is right and if that means losing the red wall to gain other seats so be it.SandyRentool said:
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.0 -
I’ve already said what I think is a feasible number downthread. 80-100K a year.Leon said:
How many is the limit? Until you answer that question your virtue-signalling bleats are valuelessTaz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
On the other hand, do make this Labour policy - as it guarantees a Corbyn-style defeat next time around, only worse0 -
Thoughts among the Powellite masses (who include my deeply unpleasant racist neighbour to whom I have stopped talking) may well run like this: "We sent the politicians a message by voting UKIP. We tried again by voting for Brexit. We climbed over the Red Wall and voted Tory. But those migrant boats, oh, those migrant boats! Australia! Australia!"Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
0 -
I imagine Algeria or Morocco would happily take our money and keep them until they get bored of waiting for a day that they know will never arrive. The Greeks and French push them out to sea regularly and literally no one cares. I'm getting closer to that position all the time.Leon said:
But we can't let people drown (as I well know from he outrage at a tiny joke on this theme!)MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We really can't
What we can do is pick them up and take them to another faraway country, agreeable to this, a country that is safe but not particularly nice. Rwanda? It will cost us a lot of money at first, but save us bigtime in the end, as migrants realise there is no point going to the UK
Until we do that - ie what the Aussies did - they will come0 -
I don't like to be the bringer of bad news but that's ultimately where we'll end up if a solution is not found.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
People won't accept legal niceities as an excuse for doing nothing - they'll vote for those who'll drive a cart and horses through them.0 -
Yet many are accepted as genuine and of those rejected a large proportion have the rejections overturned.Pagan2 said:
They are absolutely economic migrants. They fled war. They are in a safe country. Further movement is economic based not safety basedTaz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
I have already said they are not,obliged to apply in the First Nation that arrive in. France is hostile to refugees.moonshine said:
Refugees escaping from France… you’ll have to explain that one.Taz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let the next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?1 -
He looks the other way. No doubt the coast guard and port authorities are directly on the take from the trafficking gangs, and quite possible regional politicians too. Would be great to see a UK organised crime investigation issue international arrest warrants for these people.rcs1000 said:
He does it because it is popular with French voters.moonshine said:
Have you considered how a proud maritime nation like France is unable to spot groups of people massed on the beaches at night fall by human traffickers, leaving the coastline unaccosted? Have you wondered what might happen to the business fortunes of those human traffickers if you induced demand in their services? Macron’s immorality disgusts me for his tacit approval of trafficking, plenty will be drowning as a result just so he doesn’t have to work harder to control his land borders or integrate immigrants.Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Noone likes to see anyone jumping any sort of queue. And those that rock up to Dover in their dinghies are err.. queue jumpers.Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Taking directly from refugee camps would be have the crucial element that it would mean we could take our fair share of asylum seekers without people jumping any sort of queue.0 -
Thats because we have shit courts with lefty judges. That can be changed and will be if they keep doing it.Taz said:
Yet many are accepted as genuine and of those rejected a large proportion have the rejections overturned.Pagan2 said:
They are absolutely economic migrants. They fled war. They are in a safe country. Further movement is economic based not safety basedTaz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Actually, it's in Macron's interests to help the British.HYUFD said:
Macron's focus is obviously getting as many out of France as possible to keep his 2017 vote from going to Le PenSandyRentool said:
I assume that Macron is the one supplying them with boats.HYUFD said:
Voters who are most appalled by that will obviously stick with Boris over Labour or the LDs, so unless Farage returns it will not be a major issue.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
There is only so much they can do anyway without Macron's help in keeping them in France otherwise all they can do is pick them up where they can
If crossing the channel was utterly futile then far fewer migrants, if any, would congregate in the Pas De Calais area.
There'd be no point.1 -
He does but only in Islington and Hampstead and Cambridge etc where the decent Labour voters live, he would rather lose but with dignity than have to appeal to anti migration sensibilities.Casino_Royale said:
So, you don't want Labour re-elected then?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
It is a view if not a very practical one0 -
What people also arent mentioning is that if the climate change lobby are right within 40 years there will be a billion+ climate change refugees. I suspect at those numbers westerners will lose there sensibilities and fund the military to keep them out.Leon said:
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let them next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?0 -
I thought Brexit was going to stop literally millions of immigrants from the EU. If it has, then why are the Leavers now fuming about a few dozen illegals - small beer surely? If it hasn't, then does that mean the great plank of Brexit was a fib?Gnud said:
Thoughts among the Powellite masses (who include my unpleasant neighbour to whom I have stopped talking) may well run like this: "We sent the politicians a message by voting UKIP. We tried again by voting for Brexit. We climbed over the Red Wall and voted Tory. But those migrant boats, oh, those migrant boats! Australia! Australia!"Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked1 -
No thanks. Time to shut up shop. It's not our problem. If they want to come here by legal means, more than happy for then to apply and meet whatever criteria we have for skilled or unskilled migration. Otherwise it's a hard no. It's the same as international aid, all we're doing is enabling dictators.Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Why is it right to allow a bunch of young, fit blokes who have blagged their way across Europe to come and live here?Taz said:
Sorry but SKS and his team need to do what is right and if that means losing the red wall to gain other seats so be it.SandyRentool said:
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.
Those in genuine need are languishing in camps near to the conflict zones.
2 -
China was lockdown.moonshine said:
When I said “millions” travelled from or through Wuhan the week before Chinese New Year, I wasn’t being hyperbolic of course. These were the communist party’s own figures before being taken offline shortly after publication by China Railways. Those trains were the perfect super spreading event, given by that point it’s clear there was aerosolised transmission. Peculiar…Foxy said:
I don't think there were major flare ups outside Wuhan. When things get really out of control, there is no hiding it.rcs1000 said:
1. They still have some pretty severe restrictons across China, plus lots of travel quarantiningmoonshine said:
You see the thing is, this is what they did in Wuhan after the horse had long since bolted. But I haven’t heard of them doing it anywhere else. It’s hard to comprehend the sheer mass of humanity that moves in Chinese golden week unless you’ve seen it.Leon said:
Tish tish. They're just REALLY good at stapling people inside houses. Don't worry yourself about this. Next questionmoonshine said:
It’s the great mystery of our age how covid didn’t ravage every corner of China, given the millions of people that travelled from or passed through Wuhan the week before their Chinese New Year lockdown.Leon said:
Bloody hellCasino_Royale said:
The Telegraph says up to 5 million.Leon said:Asia is quite concerning now
Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, all heading into big new waves. Indonesia reporting 1,200 dead today. Feck
Meanwhile the Guardian reports that the real death toll in India is 4 MILLION - ie ten times the official death toll, which confirms the most appalling estimates, which were sometimes dismissed as scare-mongering
If India alone has actually suffered 4 million dead so far, then what is the true global total? 15 million? 20 million? And how high might it go?
Covid is already one of the worst pandemics in all human history
I recall reading the claim, weeks back, that the Indian death toll was understated "ten to fifteen times" judging by the amount of cremations taking place compared with normality
Something in me rebelled against this, and pigeon holed it as "alarmism"
Now it seems it is true. Grim
I wonder if we will ever know the true death toll in China. It beggars belief that 1.4 billion Indians can suffer 5 million dead, with more to come, and neighbouring China, with a similarly vast population, has just.... 4,600 dead?
A thousand times fewer. Really? How?
No one serious seems to want to talk about it because it raises quite uncomfortable possibilities. Better to just ignore it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1090007/china-confirmed-and-suspected-wuhan-coronavirus-cases-region/
Now sure we can look at these stats and note the implausibility of them. But it is very interesting how we never saw visible signs of stress anywhere else outside of Wuhan itself. The Communist Party in inland China is not known for its competence.
There is something decidedly odd about this story that does not hang together. My personal pet theory is that sarscov2 ravaged through most of east Asia in 2019 under the radar but perhaps with a less severe strain. And this had the effect of taking out the vulnerable before we even realised there was a pandemic, and allowed the build up of background immunity without anyone realising. Take a look at the 2019 mortality stats in Japan and Singapore, two countries with high rates of travel from China and reliable stats. You’ll see why I lean this way. Also note the evidence of infections in Europe as early as October 2019.
Doubtless someone will have the evidence to prove why this is wrong. Fair enough if so. But what is the answer then?
2. They do still have local flare ups
3. And they do sometimes go full lockdown at a City level
4. Local governors in China know that they need to tell the world they are Covid free, whatever thereality is
They may struggle with Delta though. Other Asian countries have.
I think people struggle to understand what that means because they think what the UK went through was "lockdown".
Look at the pollution maps for China and Wuhan
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/146362/airborne-nitrogen-dioxide-plummets-over-china
Lockdown China style doesn't mean you can take your dog out for a walk as many times as you want. It means step outside and you get shot. The whole country was locked in side for weeks upon weeks.
It took until the end of May for NO2 levels to "recover" in China.2 -
We should have a co ordinated approach with the EU and the rest of the western world and agree quotas and take the full quota amount.Leon said:
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let them next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?
By adopting my suggestion, of setting up processing centres in France to review and approve/reject applications it should remove the illegal,element.1 -
On a GB basis Survation's poll would show Con 40% Lab 36% LD 11%. On a UNS basis, it implies 41 Labour gains from the Tories who would also lose 4 seats to LDs. Some losses to SNP would also be likely taking the Tories back to circa 2017 levels.0
-
To do that he would have to impose mass border guards at the channel beaches and ports and have an even bigger refugee camp in northern France.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, it's in Macron's interests to help the British.HYUFD said:
Macron's focus is obviously getting as many out of France as possible to keep his 2017 vote from going to Le PenSandyRentool said:
I assume that Macron is the one supplying them with boats.HYUFD said:
Voters who are most appalled by that will obviously stick with Boris over Labour or the LDs, so unless Farage returns it will not be a major issue.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
There is only so much they can do anyway without Macron's help in keeping them in France otherwise all they can do is pick them up where they can
If crossing the channel was utterly futile then far fewer migrants, if any, would congregate in the Pas De Calais area.
There'd be no point.
Even if France is not the UK it is not Rwanda or Somalia either0 -
Some facts on asylum seekers just for those in doubt.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migration-to-the-uk-asylum/2 -
Be very careful about politicising the judiciary. You may like it when you agree with their decisions but when you don’t.....Pagan2 said:
Thats because we have shit courts with lefty judges. That can be changed and will be if they keep doing it.Taz said:
Yet many are accepted as genuine and of those rejected a large proportion have the rejections overturned.Pagan2 said:
They are absolutely economic migrants. They fled war. They are in a safe country. Further movement is economic based not safety basedTaz said:
These are not economic migrants. Surely we should, as a nation, be proud they want to come here as they see us as safe, warm and welcoming to,vulnerable people.MaxPB said:
Asylum is about need, not want. Economic migration is about want, not need. If they want to migrate here for economic reasons then they can do so legally. Push the boats back out and send them to Algeria or Morocco etc...Taz said:
They are not obliged to apply to stay in France. They want to come here. We should give them safe passage as long as they are genuine and most are.Andy_JS said:
Why won't you address the point that France is a safe country and that therefore there's no reason for migrants to risk their lives crossing the channel?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Yes it’s really curious to me how short sighted a lot of right leaning commentators are on climate change. If you wish to “conserve” society as far as possible as it is, climate change is a total cluster.Pagan2 said:
What people also arent mentioning is that if the climate change lobby are right within 40 years there will be a billion+ climate change refugees. I suspect at those numbers westerners will lose there sensibilities and fund the military to keep them out.Leon said:
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let them next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?0 -
Why should we process them in france we should take none of those but those in refugee camps beside the country they fled. What is special about the ones in france apart from they are trying to enter illegalyTaz said:
We should have a co ordinated approach with the EU and the rest of the western world and agree quotas and take the full quota amount.Leon said:
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let them next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?
By adopting my suggestion, of setting up processing centres in France to review and approve/reject applications it should remove the illegal,element.0 -
"where they all would rather be"Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Now I know that you are just trolling us. Well done, it was working nicely.0 -
They are men, women and children. Many are unaccompanied children. It is right because they are desperate people,fleeing torture, wars, bigotry, prejudice and persecution. Look where they come from. Places like Somalia, Iran, Eritrea, Syria, S Sudan. They don’t tend to come from stable nations. God bless them all.SandyRentool said:
Why is it right to allow a bunch of young, fit blokes who have blagged their way across Europe to come and live here?Taz said:
Sorry but SKS and his team need to do what is right and if that means losing the red wall to gain other seats so be it.SandyRentool said:
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.
Those in genuine need are languishing in camps near to the conflict zones.0 -
Not our problem. Let them rot in Calais or go back and apply for asylum from there. As soon as they left the unsafe country the need went away. Everything after that was want which makes them an economic migrant and we have legal routes of migration for anyone who wants to come and work and settle in the UK.Taz said:
We should have a co ordinated approach with the EU and the rest of the western world and agree quotas and take the full quota amount.Leon said:
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let them next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?
By adopting my suggestion, of setting up processing centres in France to review and approve/reject applications it should remove the illegal,element.0 -
It's not a few dozen. It was at least 450 today, in one day, and the charts for 2021 are through the roof, it could be 20,000 in one year - at a time of plague, FFS, when we are meant to have the most secure border imaginableStark_Dawning said:
I thought Brexit was going to stop literally millions of immigrants from the EU. If it has, then why are the Leavers now fuming about a few dozen illegals - small beer surely? If it hasn't, then does that mean the great plank of Brexit was a fib?Gnud said:
Thoughts among the Powellite masses (who include my unpleasant neighbour to whom I have stopped talking) may well run like this: "We sent the politicians a message by voting UKIP. We tried again by voting for Brexit. We climbed over the Red Wall and voted Tory. But those migrant boats, oh, those migrant boats! Australia! Australia!"Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Moreover, as Max says there are hundreds of millions of migrants trying to move worldwide, with more to come. The best thing we can do for them, and us, and the world, is make sure all movement is approved, legal, accepted by British voters, otherwise we are cueing up the perfect conditions for a truly far right UK government - which is what you'd get if you just abandoned border control1 -
I am bemused by how many lefties dont get it....we pay taxes to you, we expect you to put us first and if there is money left over then by all means help others further afieldSandyRentool said:
"where they all would rather be"Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Now I know that you are just trolling us. Well done, it was working nicely.0 -
Especially as Boris would have no intention of doing any of those things himself.Casino_Royale said:
I said the other day there were emerging threats to Boris's right flank, that could kibosh his coalition and knock him out of office.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
This is one of them. Dancing with dogma on Net Zero, ending up advocating we eat mung beans and algae forevermore, whilst never flying abroad again and shiver in our cold homes, is another.0 -
Bloody hell Max you obviously hung one on with your father!MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked0 -
Sorry, but that was the findings of refugee action and other refugee support groups,who interview these people. People who make dangerous journeys which many will not complete. It’s a hazardous journey.SandyRentool said:
"where they all would rather be"Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Now I know that you are just trolling us. Well done, it was working nicely.
If you think defending the rights of the most vulnerable and desperate is trolling then please ignore my posts. We have nothing more to,say.0 -
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:HYUFD said:
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.StuartDickson said:
Where are you getting these figures from?HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a hung parliament on those numbers from Survation with Tories 310, Labour 247, SNP 55, LDs 15.FrancisUrquhart said:
Interesting labour and lib dems managing better numbers. Normally it is one or the other.HYUFD said:Closer with Survation tonight
Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20
So Starmer could be PM with SNP, LD and Green and PC support, the Tories would certainly need the DUP to have a chance of staying in office.
IDS, Raab, Villiers and Steve Baker would lose their seats
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=39&LAB=35&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=23&SCOTLAB=19.6&SCOTLIB=6&SCOTReform=0.4&SCOTGreen=2.1&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=47.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019base
Scotnat 47.7%
Scotcon 23%
Scotlab 19.6%
Scotlib 6%
Scotgreen 2.1%
Scotreform 0.4%
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Where are you getting these figures from?
Scotnat 47.7%
Scotcon 23%
Scotlab 19.6%
Scotlib 6%
Scotgreen 2.1%
Scotreform 0.4%0 -
Groups who are disposed to believe any old bullshit that they are told and take it at face valueTaz said:
Sorry, but that was the findings of refugee action and other refugee support groups,who interview these people. People who make dangerous journeys which many will not complete. It’s a hazardous journey.SandyRentool said:
"where they all would rather be"Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Now I know that you are just trolling us. Well done, it was working nicely.
If you think defending the rights of the most vulnerable and desperate is trolling then please ignore my posts. We have nothing more to,say.0 -
They're more likely to need Allah's blessing from that set of countries.Taz said:
They are men, women and children. Many are unaccompanied children. It is right because they are desperate people,fleeing torture, wars, bigotry, prejudice and persecution. Look where they come from. Places like Somalia, Iran, Eritrea, Syria, S Sudan. They don’t tend to come from stable nations. God bless them all.SandyRentool said:
Why is it right to allow a bunch of young, fit blokes who have blagged their way across Europe to come and live here?Taz said:
Sorry but SKS and his team need to do what is right and if that means losing the red wall to gain other seats so be it.SandyRentool said:
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.
Those in genuine need are languishing in camps near to the conflict zones.0 -
Even if you could sort out social care in terms of more money who exactly is going to be doing the caring . Unless you increase foreign workers which this cesspit government won’t do where are these carers going to come from .0
-
Polling parity soon!0
-
As pay rises more people will be willing to do it. Before you parrot the bullcrap about english people won't do it remember 83% of people doing it are already english. What your lot always means is that english people won't do it for minimum wagenico679 said:Even if you could sort out social care in terms of more money who exactly is going to be doing the caring . Unless you increase foreign workers which this cesspit government won’t do where are these carers going to come from .
1 -
0
-
Its only three months since you said the Conservative lead was over.CorrectHorseBattery said:Polling parity soon!
Always take them with care and remember they can break your heart.0 -
Gosh late with the news...still not going to be a labour government on that poll thankfully and to be clear dont want a tory one either but it is the lesser of two madnessesCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541
The damn has broken! 40% breached!0 -
These are not gullible,fools. They are groups who deal with these people day in day out, week in week out, so know them and know they are telling the truth.Pagan2 said:
Groups who are disposed to believe any old bullshit that they are told and take it at face valueTaz said:
Sorry, but that was the findings of refugee action and other refugee support groups,who interview these people. People who make dangerous journeys which many will not complete. It’s a hazardous journey.SandyRentool said:
"where they all would rather be"Taz said:
We take,a fraction compared to other nations, it’s time we did our bit after all we started or helped fuel many of the conflicts that saw these people forces to leave their home nations where they all would rather be.MaxPB said:
Change the law, legislate, do whatever it takes. If it means burning the HRA then so be it. Enough is enough.Taz said:
Fortunately our courts wouldn’t allow it and someone like the good law project would soon stop it.MaxPB said:
The UK is far to weak. We need to do what the European countries are doing. Fuck middle class sensibilities, push them back out to sea like French and Greeks and house the ones that do make it in Algeria until they are processed. No right to enter the UK until asylum is granted. The UK needs to become a fortress island.Leon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Now I know that you are just trolling us. Well done, it was working nicely.
If you think defending the rights of the most vulnerable and desperate is trolling then please ignore my posts. We have nothing more to,say.
Here is a great page from a wonderful local group doing its bit.
https://www.wers.org.uk/facts-about-refugees1 -
Sleazy broken Tories on the slideCorrectHorseBattery said:https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541
The dam has broken! 40% breached!
Hartlepool = peak Johnson1 -
Why is that an issue worthy of comment ?another_richard said:
They're more likely to need Allah's blessing from that set of countries.Taz said:
They are men, women and children. Many are unaccompanied children. It is right because they are desperate people,fleeing torture, wars, bigotry, prejudice and persecution. Look where they come from. Places like Somalia, Iran, Eritrea, Syria, S Sudan. They don’t tend to come from stable nations. God bless them all.SandyRentool said:
Why is it right to allow a bunch of young, fit blokes who have blagged their way across Europe to come and live here?Taz said:
Sorry but SKS and his team need to do what is right and if that means losing the red wall to gain other seats so be it.SandyRentool said:
Sorry, but are you fecking radge?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
Wave goodbye to the Red Wall forever.
Those in genuine need are languishing in camps near to the conflict zones.0 -
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.StuartDickson said:
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:HYUFD said:
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.StuartDickson said:
Where are you getting these figures from?HYUFD said:
Electoral Calculus gives a hung parliament on those numbers from Survation with Tories 310, Labour 247, SNP 55, LDs 15.FrancisUrquhart said:
Interesting labour and lib dems managing better numbers. Normally it is one or the other.HYUFD said:Closer with Survation tonight
Tories 39%
Labour 35%
LDs 11%
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1417559489700630541?s=20
So Starmer could be PM with SNP, LD and Green and PC support, the Tories would certainly need the DUP to have a chance of staying in office.
IDS, Raab, Villiers and Steve Baker would lose their seats
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=39&LAB=35&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=23&SCOTLAB=19.6&SCOTLIB=6&SCOTReform=0.4&SCOTGreen=2.1&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=47.7&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019base
Scotnat 47.7%
Scotcon 23%
Scotlab 19.6%
Scotlib 6%
Scotgreen 2.1%
Scotreform 0.4%
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Where are you getting these figures from?
Scotnat 47.7%
Scotcon 23%
Scotlab 19.6%
Scotlib 6%
Scotgreen 2.1%
Scotreform 0.4%
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
https://www.survation.com/survation-19-july-2021-uk-politics-survey/0 -
There is actually a Darwinian argument that agrees with Taz. Tho I suspect he won't like itMaxPB said:
Not our problem. Let them rot in Calais or go back and apply for asylum from there. As soon as they left the unsafe country the need went away. Everything after that was want which makes them an economic migrant and we have legal routes of migration for anyone who wants to come and work and settle in the UK.Taz said:
We should have a co ordinated approach with the EU and the rest of the western world and agree quotas and take the full quota amount.Leon said:
100,000Taz said:
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.Leon said:
Interesting. Is there a limit to the numbers we should take? 10,000? 100,000? 10 million?Taz said:
Labour needs to make the most of this and push to welcome these people to the UK and help them. Their moral cowardice in not doing so shames left wing politicsLeon said:The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
We should take 100,000
You are literally saying 100,000 illegal migrants making insanely dangerous crossings should be prioritised over the other hundreds of thousands of migrants who want to come here, but who do so legally and safely (which takes years). You want to reward human trafficking, you want to reward evil
And besides, once we reach the 100,000, what you gonna do then? Shoot the next boats? Or let them next boats in as well, because your enormous heart is bleeding?
By adopting my suggestion, of setting up processing centres in France to review and approve/reject applications it should remove the illegal,element.
If you want to take immigrants, take the youngest, toughest, smartest, richest - take the best, but make them go through some kind of awful Hunger Games-esque trial, to see who the fittest are - like, say, illegally crossing half of Africa, sorting out a trafficker, then surviving a horrible Channel crossing in a dinghy
If they make it, let them in, because you have then successfully selected for the fittest, most enterprising migrants, who will prosper in the UK
Perhaps we should close down all legal routes of migration, and only allow crossings of the Channel. They could be televised, in front of live audiences, as people cheer on their favourites
FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT, THIS IS SATIRE, I DO NOT THINK THIS IS A GOOD, KIND OR WISE THING. But it is the weird Ayn Randy upshot of Taz's Let Them Come philosophy2