Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
Put them in Buckinghamshire. They've already dug up the hills for HS2 and they can't piss off the locals more than they have already.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
I had a box of perishable goods turn up 2 months late. We assumed it had been confiscated by customs and then suddenly gets spat out for delivery. "There are customs fees and charges to pay" said the courier.
Erm no, because 1. The box needs to be destroyed now 2. The box was 1 of 2 in a consignment and 3. the other box got through without charge because the products inside are zero tariff and zero import VAT as shown on the paperwork
It is a lottery. Our customer has seen it take 4 attempts to get properly certified properly written up chilled products across the border in time to be edible. We're largely giving up on chilled as the supply chain just isn't reliable. Which is why for NI the supply route has quickly swung from UK to NI / ROI to France to ROI / NI much to the rage of the unionists.
This is all because of BoJo's rubbish Brexit deal
It's an interesting example of the limitations of Johnson's habit of deciding stuff on a wing and sorting out any problems later. That can work quite well in electoral with non-technical stuff. If they declare nightclubs open without restriction, then say nah, on reflection they need vaxports, everyone will be irritated and some people will die before they get round to sorting it, but in a few months everyone will have moved on, and if they're ruthless enough not to care about unnecessary deaths, the electoral consequences will be negligible.
But Northern Ireland is a technical problem, and you can't talk it away, any more than you can repair a machine by thetorical flourishes. There are only 3 choices that actually work:
1. Decide NI isn't part of the Customs Union after all. Problem: border trade collapses. 2. Decide NI isn't part of the UK for trading purposes. Problem: UK-NI trade collapses 3. Decide to accept continuation of common standards. Problem: we surrender the right to fall behind EU standards in the future.
Fudges - trusted traders, informal deals, delays, etc. simply won't work durably. There's a fundamental choice, and Johnson de facto chose 2 plus fudge.
I think the outcome may be 3 with the theoretical option to change in future which will in practice not be used.
Fundamentally trusted trader schemes are the only way to square this particular circle
I think there is a trusted trader scheme, but maybe it doesn't do enough.
The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
WE'VE HAD A REPORT OF A KAYAK!
He actually said that. #accidentalpartridge
NF says the only solution is tow backs and that the government doesn't have the backbone to do it. He's right on both points.
Didn't take GB News long to become Nigel Farage TV.
Can believe Andrew Neil will want to be involved too much longer.
Gives Brillo a good escape pod tho'..
''GBNews is no longer the high minded project concerned with EU lunacy, immigration and the war on woke that I intended it to be. While I wish them well, it is with deep regret I must end our association and make my six week holiday permanent..'
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us.”
Why the GOP Made a Mistake Killing Off Biden’s IRS Plan
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/07/20/actually-republicans-should-get-behind-bidens-irs-plan-500208 ...The point of Biden’s plan wasn’t to boost audits but to close the “tax gap” — the amount of taxes currently owed but not paid. We know firsthand that it’s a gigantic number — in 2019 alone it totaled $574 billion, and it’s estimated to reach $7 trillion over the next 10 years. In perspective, that’s equal to the amount of federal income taxes that the bottom 90 percent of individual earners pay in federal taxes on an annual basis.
...Here’s an amazing stat: Workers who get a W-2 pay 99 percent of the taxes they owe. It’s those who funnel income through financial vehicles the IRS doesn’t or can’t monitor who pay as little as 50 percent of what they owe. The tax gap has grown because an increasing number of filers, particularly upper earners, do not receive W-2s or other forms that report their income. This is fundamentally unfair and unsustainable.
Biden’s idea for strengthening the IRS wasn’t to add audits, but to improve technology — which is a smart use of federal money to bring in revenue. When we were at the IRS, audits were pretty much the only tool we had to find most of that missing income. But it was and is an inefficient tool. While there is an essential role for audits, they bring in less than 0.5 percent of IRS revenue, and 20 to 40 percent of audits produce nothing.
The main reason the tax system works when it does is that taxpayers, knowing that they and the IRS have the same information about their income, simply pay what they owe. So the best way to do that for wealthy tax-avoiders is to enhance the reporting of sources of income that aren’t currently collected by the IRS....
Doesn't that fail in the assumption that GOP politicians want wealthy tax-avoiders to get caught? 😕
Republican voters and their representatives might differ on this. Which is why the politicians framed the argument as one about 'audits'.
The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
WE'VE HAD A REPORT OF A KAYAK!
He actually said that. #accidentalpartridge
NF says the only solution is tow backs and that the government doesn't have the backbone to do it. He's right on both points.
Farage is like Partridge without Alan's small scrap of humanity that makes him funny, tragic and not a monster.
Partridge under the Gibbons brothers is actually an okay person underneath it all. There is more than a scrap of humanity there. He is someone who has a high degree of vulnerability. Probably because the gibbons brothers are fans as well as good writers.
Under Ianucci and Baynham he was a far less developed character.
Ignoring the fact this is already in UK law, exactly what did Guto Harri do that resulted in him being suspended by GB News...
They want "freedom of speech" to include freedom from consequences or judgment if they agree with what you say, but to judge and be able to ostracise those they disagree with, like Guto Harri. That is not yet enshrined in law, but if we keep electing authoritarians, who knows, perhaps they will get their wish at some point.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
Put them in Buckinghamshire. They've already dug up the hills for HS2 and they can't piss off the locals more than they have already.
And given what used to be sat around that area - it wouldn't move the area any higher up the list of priority nuclear bomb targets (NATO strike command was there for years but I can't remember if it still is).
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.
Remember Labour thought only about 130,000 eastern Europeans would arrive in total. But over 6 million applied for the settled scheme status.
We have also given asylum status to 3 million Hong Kongers and take-up of that offer is brisk.
So we're already looking at nearly 10 million people seeking asylum from the EU's poor economy (the eastern europeans) and from China (the Hong Kongers).
If you open the door to new migrants from France, it won't stick to the 100k you envisage - it will be four to five million.
Also - the boat people seem to originate from Syria, Albania and Iran - these are not countries that Britain has ever had responsibility for. Syria used to be a French colony, Albania was Ottoman and Iran was independent. Not sure why Britain should be responsible for them.
The international language of trade is English - and we are the only accessible country where English is the default language.
Other parts of Europe use fluency of local language as an employment filter in a way we cannot...
Easy solution: revert to Welsh as the national language.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their food offering has declined and risen in price over the last year, first time I can remember a decline in their food quality. Might be a coincidence, Covid or Ocado related but feels significantly Brexit driven to me.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
So by your reckoning, the last three times Labour won an election, it did not rely on Scottish seats to do so. Why then would Labour be "utterly screwed"?
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us.”
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
I’m an english voter and I wouldn’t
You are an English Labour voter so irrelevant, the Tories had a majority of 157 in England alone in 2019.
Scottish independence would not only end the Union but also the Conservative and Unionist Party, which would become the English Nationalist Party and dominate English politics as much as the SNP dominated Scottish politics.
List of people FUDHY defines as “irrelevant”:
English Labour voters English Lib Dem voters English Green voters One Nation Tories The Scots The Welsh Irish people who don’t vote DUP The rest of the world
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them...
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their food offering has declined and risen in price over the last year, first time I can remember a decline in their food quality. Might be a coincidence, Covid or Ocado related but feels significantly Brexit driven to me.
They are actually going to start paying dividends again.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 3 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
Nah, wouldn’t happen. He’d pass a bill moving from FPTP to a more proportionate system in the hope of retaining power,and he’d dissolve parliament.
And it would be appropriate for Scottish MPs to vote on that?
Not really but you cannot stop them.
True. I can’t. I suspect the Speaker might have something to say about it.
True, but he can huff and puff but can’t stop them. They aren’t likely to care and they will regard a progressive alliance govt to be far more,kind to them than a Tory one.
No guarantee even PR would give a progressive alliance minus Scotland.
As said in 2015 the Tories and UKIP got 54% of the vote combined in England and even in 2019 the 49% the Tories and BXP and UKIP got combined in England may well have been enough for a combined majority too, especially under an AMS or MMS, even PR is rarely pure PR.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 3 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
Nah, wouldn’t happen. He’d pass a bill moving from FPTP to a more proportionate system in the hope of retaining power,and he’d dissolve parliament.
And it would be appropriate for Scottish MPs to vote on that?
Not really but you cannot stop them.
True. I can’t. I suspect the Speaker might have something to say about it.
True, but he can huff and puff but can’t stop them. They aren’t likely to care and they will regard a progressive alliance govt to be far more,kind to them than a Tory one.
I don’t know without checking but I suspect he can stop them. Can he designate something as a piece of English law, fir example? (Although I think the government is abandoning EVEL)
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 3 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
Nah, wouldn’t happen. He’d pass a bill moving from FPTP to a more proportionate system in the hope of retaining power,and he’d dissolve parliament.
He couldn't pass it without SNP support and even if he managed to before they left the Commons even under PR we would likely see a repeat of the 2015 result and a Tory and UKIP/Farage combined majority on votes (the Tories and UKIP got 54% of the vote combined in England in 2015 and add in the DUP too) to screw the SNP and end all spending to Scotland as soon as possible as English voters turned English Nationalist.
There would then also be a hard border and customs posts from Berwick to Carlisle
What do you mean “as English voters turned English Nationalist”? They already have: it’s called Brexit.
For the whole UK, Wales also voted for Brexit as did much of NI
If you're going for the "much of NI voted Leave" line I will throw in "much of England voted Remain". (England 47% Remain vs NI 44% Leave).
Wow, something's triggered the Boris fanbois today!!
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us.”
Morning everyone. I wonder what fresh hell today will bring?
The crucial Wednesday Covid numbers.
Either "peak" delight confirmed or the depth of despair of ever increasing cases.
Why would increasing cases cause "despair"?
I for one forecast continuing increase in cases this week. In England the Schools were still open last week so plague monkeys will have been spreading germs around at school, as they tend to do.
Ah, so you are abandoning your old forecast that "the country is simply running out of people who can get sick and die from infection faster than the virus can spread." then? From back in early June when everyone was calling peak Covid.
No, I stand by it.
The number of people who can get sick and die is shrinking by hundreds of thousands per day, faster than the virus can spread. Yesterday the virus spread to 46k people, while over 180k were vaccinated.
That doesn't mean the virus can't spread - and its worth noting that vaccination numbers are well down on what they were in early June precisely because most people have already been vaccinated, twice. So the virus can spread but it can't make many people sick or die because vaccinations have won the race.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
I’m an english voter and I wouldn’t
You are an English Labour voter so irrelevant, the Tories had a majority of 157 in England alone in 2019.
Scottish independence would not only end the Union but also the Conservative and Unionist Party, which would become the English Nationalist Party and dominate English politics as much as the SNP dominated Scottish politics.
List of people FUDHY defines as “irrelevant”:
English Labour voters English Lib Dem voters English Green voters One Nation Tories The Scots The Welsh Irish people who don’t vote DUP The rest of the world
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
So by your reckoning, the last three times Labour won an election, it did not rely on Scottish seats to do so. Why then would Labour be "utterly screwed"?
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
Local authorities do need to be small enough that you can get from one place within it to any other place within a sensible time frame.
I'm not sure what the optimum time frame is but it has to be way less than the 3 hours I suspect it takes to get from Carlisle to parts of the Southern Lakes.
North Yorkshire has similar issues - how do you split a county with very few east west and north south routes.
And in County Durham they destroyed Bishop Auckland in one swoop by allowing an out of town centre to be built on the outskirts via votes from councillors who had never visited the place.
Boris seems to be current Aunt Sally for the terminally angry. As my daughter used to say "Get over it."
Boris is self-obsessed, extremely lazy, and for once I'd disagree slightly with Mr Dancer. I'd say he's amoral, but if he gained any morals, he'd be immoral. He's reached his exalted position through bluff and connections.
Therefore an excellent PM.
Lacking principles, he concentrates on survival. His only hope is to appoint competent deputies, and as long as he wins more than he loses, he will succeed. He will irritate those with delusions of their own competence. Cummings is an example. In his own mind, he can do a much better job, but he misunderstands the point of being a PM.
First, do no harm. Make your enemies angry and they will appear obsessed. Angry people convince no one.
Do not micro-manage. You are not an expert, but you don't need to be. We have plenty of those.
Model yourself on JFK. Surround yourself with competent advisors, but stand to one side and make your own decisions. It's your own survival that ranks first. Take advantage when you're in a strong position. Know your enemy. Lie when necessary. October 1962 was his finest hour. Jupiter rockets in Turkey were merely symbolic but a potent lever to out-manoeuvre Mr K during the Cuban missile crisis.
By comparison, the EU vaccine minister was a seven-year-old child Job done.
Revel in your opponents bile - but this is optional.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their food offering has declined and risen in price over the last year, first time I can remember a decline in their food quality. Might be a coincidence, Covid or Ocado related but feels significantly Brexit driven to me.
They are actually going to start paying dividends again.
At the higher price and lower quality mix I am not surprised! Will customers remain loyal as standards drop though?
Does Boris Johnson run the risk of breaking apart his Brexit coalition by continuously bringing the issue up again, when he specifically said Brexit would be "done" if people voted for him?
Well, Brexit is done. We have Brexited. I'd expect the overwhelming majority of Brexit supporters to think this is the EU trying to cause trouble.
It enables Johnson to campaign at the next election on protecting Brexit - because the only solution to the NI trade issues that doesn't upset either side in NI is for Britain to have a closer economic relationship with the EU.
At some point Starmer will be unable to resist stating the obvious, and there you have a rallying call for the next general election:
"Labour still don't get it. They won't accept that we voted for Brexit. Vote Boris to save Brexit"
If it is confirmed that fresh foods are being left to rot undelivered because of pinging, he will be able to litter his public utterances with references to 'ping pong'. Would be in character.
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
So a restoration of Cumberland, Westmoreland and Furness?
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them...
Does that not count as lobbying, then ?
Publicly denouncing rules as ridiculous is not sensible lobbying of states that impose those rules. Particularly when the EU rules are the same as those imposed by other countries including the UK.
Maybe Norman is lobbying the UK government for something unrelated by being Brexiteer-than-thou. That might make some sense.
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
But hopefully the benefits will accrue across all the regions
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
The images of 450 migrants simply beaching in Kent, in one single day, and then scattering are absolutely appalling for the Tories
TAKE BACK CONTROL?!
If they don't get a grip on this the government is fucked
WE'VE HAD A REPORT OF A KAYAK!
He actually said that. #accidentalpartridge
NF says the only solution is tow backs and that the government doesn't have the backbone to do it. He's right on both points.
Farage is like Partridge without Alan's small scrap of humanity that makes him funny, tragic and not a monster.
Partridge under the Gibbons brothers is actually an okay person underneath it all. There is more than a scrap of humanity there. He is someone who has a high degree of vulnerability. Probably because the gibbons brothers are fans as well as good writers.
Under Ianucci and Baynham he was a far less developed character.
I think his Travel Tavern days were peak Partridge though.
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.
Remember Labour thought only about 130,000 eastern Europeans would arrive in total. But over 6 million applied for the settled scheme status.
We have also given asylum status to 3 million Hong Kongers and take-up of that offer is brisk.
So we're already looking at nearly 10 million people seeking asylum from the EU's poor economy (the eastern europeans) and from China (the Hong Kongers).
If you open the door to new migrants from France, it won't stick to the 100k you envisage - it will be four to five million.
Also - the boat people seem to originate from Syria, Albania and Iran - these are not countries that Britain has ever had responsibility for. Syria used to be a French colony, Albania was Ottoman and Iran was independent. Not sure why Britain should be responsible for them.
The international language of trade is English - and we are the only accessible country where English is the default language.
Other parts of Europe use fluency of local language as an employment filter in a way we cannot...
Easy solution: revert to Welsh as the national language.
Err… other indigenous languages are available, if we’re going to ditch the Germanic one.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their food offering has declined and risen in price over the last year, first time I can remember a decline in their food quality. Might be a coincidence, Covid or Ocado related but feels significantly Brexit driven to me.
They are actually going to start paying dividends again.
At the higher price and lower quality mix I am not surprised! Will customers remain loyal as standards drop though?
Depends if you can find replacement options that aren't even more expensive.
We should take our fair share. Obviously we cannot take 10 million but 80 - 100K is feasible.
Remember Labour thought only about 130,000 eastern Europeans would arrive in total. But over 6 million applied for the settled scheme status.
We have also given asylum status to 3 million Hong Kongers and take-up of that offer is brisk.
So we're already looking at nearly 10 million people seeking asylum from the EU's poor economy (the eastern europeans) and from China (the Hong Kongers).
If you open the door to new migrants from France, it won't stick to the 100k you envisage - it will be four to five million.
Also - the boat people seem to originate from Syria, Albania and Iran - these are not countries that Britain has ever had responsibility for. Syria used to be a French colony, Albania was Ottoman and Iran was independent. Not sure why Britain should be responsible for them.
The international language of trade is English - and we are the only accessible country where English is the default language.
Other parts of Europe use fluency of local language as an employment filter in a way we cannot...
Easy solution: revert to Welsh as the national language.
Err… other indigenous languages are available, if we’re going to ditch the Germanic one.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Do you ever think before you write such utter rubbish, as evidenced in your last paragraph
I am all for respecting different views but this is meant to be a forum for intelligent debate, not wild fantasy
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Morning everyone. I wonder what fresh hell today will bring?
The crucial Wednesday Covid numbers.
Either "peak" delight confirmed or the depth of despair of ever increasing cases.
Why would increasing cases cause "despair"?
I for one forecast continuing increase in cases this week. In England the Schools were still open last week so plague monkeys will have been spreading germs around at school, as they tend to do.
Ah, so you are abandoning your old forecast that "the country is simply running out of people who can get sick and die from infection faster than the virus can spread." then? From back in early June when everyone was calling peak Covid.
No, I stand by it.
The number of people who can get sick and die is shrinking by hundreds of thousands per day, faster than the virus can spread. Yesterday the virus spread to 46k people, while over 180k were vaccinated.
That doesn't mean the virus can't spread - and its worth noting that vaccination numbers are well down on what they were in early June precisely because most people have already been vaccinated, twice. So the virus can spread but it can't make many people sick or die because vaccinations have won the race.
I remember the good old days when folk said we shouldn't worry about case numbers at all - the only metrics that counted were hospitalisations, ICU and deaths. All of which are inexorably rising, as expected after a lag with cases rising, with 96 deaths 'reported' yesterday and daily deaths rising quite rapidly. Hardly mentioned on here, unless I've missed it.
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
But hopefully the benefits will accrue across all the regions
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
The latter may be the case.
But the point is that the benefits won't accrue across the region because the current Cumbria County Council leadership is obsessed with extending links with Scotland and ignoring the rest of the county.
So there is a current project to extend cycling routes down the West coast of Cumbria to South Lakeland and join it up with existing cycle paths. Husband is working on this. This would be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. Does the Council care or help? Bollocks it does. It is only interested in cycling routes into Scotland.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
I’m an english voter and I wouldn’t
You are an English Labour voter so irrelevant, the Tories had a majority of 157 in England alone in 2019.
Scottish independence would not only end the Union but also the Conservative and Unionist Party, which would become the English Nationalist Party and dominate English politics as much as the SNP dominated Scottish politics.
List of people FUDHY defines as “irrelevant”:
English Labour voters English Lib Dem voters English Green voters One Nation Tories The Scots The Welsh Irish people who don’t vote DUP The rest of the world
His universe is exceedingly small.
IIRC there used to be a very good pork pie shop in Epping. Otherwise not particularly notable, except as a service unit for the Forest, and, I am reminded, the Market.
Just caught up with @bbclaurak interview with Dom Cummings. Always thought he was much more nuanced than painted. But he comes across as a would-be Caudillo. If his analysis is right we should all say Thank You Carrie.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their food offering has declined and risen in price over the last year, first time I can remember a decline in their food quality. Might be a coincidence, Covid or Ocado related but feels significantly Brexit driven to me.
They are actually going to start paying dividends again.
At the higher price and lower quality mix I am not surprised! Will customers remain loyal as standards drop though?
Depends if you can find replacement options that aren't even more expensive.
You can imo, but not in a single store, multiple shops would be needed. Also some people will be quite willing to take a small drop in quality for a big drop in price at the likes of Sainsburys if they feel like they are getting taken for granted.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Do you ever think before you write such utter rubbish, as evidenced in your last paragraph
I am all for respecting different views but this is meant to be a forum for intelligent debate, not wild fantasy
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Do you ever think before you write such utter rubbish, as evidenced in your last paragraph
I am all for respecting different views but this is meant to be a forum for intelligent debate, not wild fantasy
Wild fantasy is what Boris fanboys do. It is their raison d’être.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
But hopefully the benefits will accrue across all the regions
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
The latter may be the case.
But the point is that the benefits won't accrue across the region because the current Cumbria County Council leadership is obsessed with extending links with Scotland and ignoring the rest of the county.
So there is a current project to extend cycling routes down the West coast of Cumbria to South Lakeland and join it up with existing cycle paths. Husband is working on this. This would be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. Does the Council care or help? Bollocks it does. It is only interested in cycling routes into Scotland.
I really hope you do receive benefits, but of course you know the issues and I wish you and your husband well in your endeavours
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Considering that Falmouth is the only English port deep enough to house Trident, placing the concrete silos in Cumbria might be a bit… err… sub-optimal.
If it is confirmed that fresh foods are being left to rot undelivered because of pinging, he will be able to litter his public utterances with references to 'ping pong'. Would be in character.
We’ve published new analysis of the impacts that long COVID has on adults in Great Britain.
6.2% of adults may have experienced long COVID since the start of the pandemic. This includes 3.6% who said they had and 2.6% who said they were unsure
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
I had a box of perishable goods turn up 2 months late. We assumed it had been confiscated by customs and then suddenly gets spat out for delivery. "There are customs fees and charges to pay" said the courier.
Erm no, because 1. The box needs to be destroyed now 2. The box was 1 of 2 in a consignment and 3. the other box got through without charge because the products inside are zero tariff and zero import VAT as shown on the paperwork
It is a lottery. Our customer has seen it take 4 attempts to get properly certified properly written up chilled products across the border in time to be edible. We're largely giving up on chilled as the supply chain just isn't reliable. Which is why for NI the supply route has quickly swung from UK to NI / ROI to France to ROI / NI much to the rage of the unionists.
This is all because of BoJo's rubbish Brexit deal
It's an interesting example of the limitations of Johnson's habit of deciding stuff on a wing and sorting out any problems later. That can work quite well in electoral with non-technical stuff. If they declare nightclubs open without restriction, then say nah, on reflection they need vaxports, everyone will be irritated and some people will die before they get round to sorting it, but in a few months everyone will have moved on, and if they're ruthless enough not to care about unnecessary deaths, the electoral consequences will be negligible.
But Northern Ireland is a technical problem, and you can't talk it away, any more than you can repair a machine by thetorical flourishes. There are only 3 choices that actually work:
1. Decide NI isn't part of the Customs Union after all. Problem: border trade collapses. 2. Decide NI isn't part of the UK for trading purposes. Problem: UK-NI trade collapses 3. Decide to accept continuation of common standards. Problem: we surrender the right to fall behind EU standards in the future.
Fudges - trusted traders, informal deals, delays, etc. simply won't work durably. There's a fundamental choice, and Johnson de facto chose 2 plus fudge.
I think the outcome may be 3 with the theoretical option to change in future which will in practice not be used.
Fundamentally trusted trader schemes are the only way to square this particular circle
No. You cannot use a "trusted trader" scheme for the entirety of GB - NI trade. Or "UK trade" as it used to be until your party lied to NI businesses, politicians and the people by removing them from the UK customs area.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
So by your reckoning, the last three times Labour won an election, it did not rely on Scottish seats to do so. Why then would Labour be "utterly screwed"?
Please don’t ask him to be logical. It blows his circuits.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
Yes I know. I was being sarcastic that HYUFD wants to use the nukes to blow us away.
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
But hopefully the benefits will accrue across all the regions
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
The latter may be the case.
But the point is that the benefits won't accrue across the region because the current Cumbria County Council leadership is obsessed with extending links with Scotland and ignoring the rest of the county.
So there is a current project to extend cycling routes down the West coast of Cumbria to South Lakeland and join it up with existing cycle paths. Husband is working on this. This would be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. Does the Council care or help? Bollocks it does. It is only interested in cycling routes into Scotland.
Does the County intend to recreate the Kingdom of Strathclyde, linking up with the SW of Scotland and gain the benefits of forthcoming Scottish independence?
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Do you ever think before you write such utter rubbish, as evidenced in your last paragraph
I am all for respecting different views but this is meant to be a forum for intelligent debate, not wild fantasy
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Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
You are forgetting England and Wales and NI would still have nuclear weapons and still be in NATO, so safe from Russian invasion in a way a Scotland without nuclear weapons and out of NATO would not be
Just caught up with @bbclaurak interview with Dom Cummings. Always thought he was much more nuanced than painted. But he comes across as a would-be Caudillo. If his analysis is right we should all say Thank You Carrie.
This below. I agree with Cummings that Johnson is an unfit person to be anywhere near government, but his government was democratically elected. We are talking here about an attack on democracy:
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
But hopefully the benefits will accrue across all the regions
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
The latter may be the case.
But the point is that the benefits won't accrue across the region because the current Cumbria County Council leadership is obsessed with extending links with Scotland and ignoring the rest of the county.
So there is a current project to extend cycling routes down the West coast of Cumbria to South Lakeland and join it up with existing cycle paths. Husband is working on this. This would be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. Does the Council care or help? Bollocks it does. It is only interested in cycling routes into Scotland.
Does the County intend to recreate the Kingdom of Strathclyde, linking up with the SW of Scotland and gain the benefits of forthcoming Scottish independence?
Could be a winner.
Not if the Scottish borders decided to stay with rUK
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Do you ever think before you write such utter rubbish, as evidenced in your last paragraph
I am all for respecting different views but this is meant to be a forum for intelligent debate, not wild fantasy
Wild fantasy is what Boris fanboys do. It is their raison d’être.
Even allowing for some of them to do so @HYUFD occupies a position absolutely unique at the top of the tree
Not quite accurate, I hope . They did wear something else instead?
The current BBC obsession with sportswomen's lower clothing is a revealing reflection on the Olympics and culture, judging by the amount of headlines on the front page over the last week.
A few years ago it was all about the Olympics being a good pickup ground for body-type fetishists.
Handball isn't in the Olympics, but clearly, similar issues are. Gymnasts had an argument about it no?
Just caught up with @bbclaurak interview with Dom Cummings. Always thought he was much more nuanced than painted. But he comes across as a would-be Caudillo. If his analysis is right we should all say Thank You Carrie.
This below. I agree with Cummings that Johnson is an unfit person to be anywhere near government, but his government was democratically elected. We are talking here about an attack on democracy:
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Considering that Falmouth is the only English port deep enough to house Trident, placing the concrete silos in Cumbria might be a bit… err… sub-optimal.
Dare I say Milford Haven is the deepest port in Europe, so I'm sure Tally ho! Simon Hart could oblige for Johnson.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
You are forgetting England and Wales and NI would still have nuclear weapons and still be in NATO, so safe from Russian invasion in a way a Scotland without nuclear weapons and out of NATO would not be
I never thought that the notion of turning Gibraltar into a second Stalingrad would be surpassed. I find I have underestimated you.
One of the problems with Cumbria County Council being based in Carlisle and getting involved in schemes like this is that it ignores the large parts of Cumbria which are not close to the Scottish borders eg South Lakeland where I live.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
But hopefully the benefits will accrue across all the regions
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
The latter may be the case.
But the point is that the benefits won't accrue across the region because the current Cumbria County Council leadership is obsessed with extending links with Scotland and ignoring the rest of the county.
So there is a current project to extend cycling routes down the West coast of Cumbria to South Lakeland and join it up with existing cycle paths. Husband is working on this. This would be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. Does the Council care or help? Bollocks it does. It is only interested in cycling routes into Scotland.
Does the County intend to recreate the Kingdom of Strathclyde, linking up with the SW of Scotland and gain the benefits of forthcoming Scottish independence?
Could be a winner.
Not if the Scottish borders decided to stay with rUK
If 'Ifs and 'ands' were pots and pans We'd have no need of tinkers.
Just caught up with @bbclaurak interview with Dom Cummings. Always thought he was much more nuanced than painted. But he comes across as a would-be Caudillo. If his analysis is right we should all say Thank You Carrie.
This below. I agree with Cummings that Johnson is an unfit person to be anywhere near government, but his government was democratically elected. We are talking here about an attack on democracy:
UK Parliament - we technically don't vote for Boris we vote for our MP who then represents us in Parliament.
That MP then supports his party leader who happens to be Boris - but those MPs can change their mind at any time (see for example T May).
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
Russia would not invade. Russia would, however, step up its buzzing of Scottish airspace, forcing the Scottish Air Force to spend a small fortune on interceptions, so either Scotland would arrange for the RAF to carry these out, or invite the USAF. Either way, once they've done that, there is no reason leaving the nuclear weapons where they are could not be part of an agreement, which is where we came in. Similarly, the Russian navy might inspect Scotland's coastal defences.
Morning everyone. I wonder what fresh hell today will bring?
The crucial Wednesday Covid numbers.
Either "peak" delight confirmed or the depth of despair of ever increasing cases.
Why would increasing cases cause "despair"?
I for one forecast continuing increase in cases this week. In England the Schools were still open last week so plague monkeys will have been spreading germs around at school, as they tend to do.
Ah, so you are abandoning your old forecast that "the country is simply running out of people who can get sick and die from infection faster than the virus can spread." then? From back in early June when everyone was calling peak Covid.
No, I stand by it.
The number of people who can get sick and die is shrinking by hundreds of thousands per day, faster than the virus can spread. Yesterday the virus spread to 46k people, while over 180k were vaccinated.
That doesn't mean the virus can't spread - and its worth noting that vaccination numbers are well down on what they were in early June precisely because most people have already been vaccinated, twice. So the virus can spread but it can't make many people sick or die because vaccinations have won the race.
I remember the good old days when folk said we shouldn't worry about case numbers at all - the only metrics that counted were hospitalisations, ICU and deaths. All of which are inexorably rising, as expected after a lag with cases rising, with 96 deaths 'reported' yesterday and daily deaths rising quite rapidly. Hardly mentioned on here, unless I've missed it.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
You are forgetting England and Wales and NI would still have nuclear weapons and still be in NATO, so safe from Russian invasion in a way a Scotland without nuclear weapons and out of NATO would not be
As I have said to you before on occasions, maybe time for you to go and enjoy a morning cup of tea
Anyone spot the obvious flaw in this Macron "quote" that's doing the rounds on Twitter:
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us.”
Just caught up with @bbclaurak interview with Dom Cummings. Always thought he was much more nuanced than painted. But he comes across as a would-be Caudillo. If his analysis is right we should all say Thank You Carrie.
This below. I agree with Cummings that Johnson is an unfit person to be anywhere near government, but his government was democratically elected. We are talking here about an attack on democracy:
Can he be done for planning sedition?
You can't arrest the entire Labour Party and half the Conservative Party for wanting rid of Boris.
Morning everyone. I wonder what fresh hell today will bring?
The crucial Wednesday Covid numbers.
Either "peak" delight confirmed or the depth of despair of ever increasing cases.
Why would increasing cases cause "despair"?
I for one forecast continuing increase in cases this week. In England the Schools were still open last week so plague monkeys will have been spreading germs around at school, as they tend to do.
Ah, so you are abandoning your old forecast that "the country is simply running out of people who can get sick and die from infection faster than the virus can spread." then? From back in early June when everyone was calling peak Covid.
No, I stand by it.
The number of people who can get sick and die is shrinking by hundreds of thousands per day, faster than the virus can spread. Yesterday the virus spread to 46k people, while over 180k were vaccinated.
That doesn't mean the virus can't spread - and its worth noting that vaccination numbers are well down on what they were in early June precisely because most people have already been vaccinated, twice. So the virus can spread but it can't make many people sick or die because vaccinations have won the race.
I remember the good old days when folk said we shouldn't worry about case numbers at all - the only metrics that counted were hospitalisations, ICU and deaths. All of which are inexorably rising, as expected after a lag with cases rising, with 96 deaths 'reported' yesterday and daily deaths rising quite rapidly. Hardly mentioned on here, unless I've missed it.
We shouldn't worry about case numbers at all - the only metrics that counted were hospitalisations, ICU and deaths. All of which are small.
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
You are forgetting England and Wales and NI would still have nuclear weapons and still be in NATO, so safe from Russian invasion in a way a Scotland without nuclear weapons and out of NATO would not be
NI would have re-united with the rest of the island by then, surely. And the way things are going, nuclear weapons in Wales would give rise to strong local objections.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their food offering has declined and risen in price over the last year, first time I can remember a decline in their food quality. Might be a coincidence, Covid or Ocado related but feels significantly Brexit driven to me.
They are actually going to start paying dividends again.
At the higher price and lower quality mix I am not surprised! Will customers remain loyal as standards drop though?
With the driver shortage, supermarket quality is determined more by who has the more resilient logistics than by their product marketing. I was in Waitrose and it was bad. Hardly any fresh produce, what there was very close to the expiry date in a bad state. I picked up a packet of tomatoes that I had to throw out because they were all rotten. Lidl by contrast has been rather better.
Morning everyone. I wonder what fresh hell today will bring?
The crucial Wednesday Covid numbers.
Either "peak" delight confirmed or the depth of despair of ever increasing cases.
Why would increasing cases cause "despair"?
I for one forecast continuing increase in cases this week. In England the Schools were still open last week so plague monkeys will have been spreading germs around at school, as they tend to do.
Ah, so you are abandoning your old forecast that "the country is simply running out of people who can get sick and die from infection faster than the virus can spread." then? From back in early June when everyone was calling peak Covid.
No, I stand by it.
The number of people who can get sick and die is shrinking by hundreds of thousands per day, faster than the virus can spread. Yesterday the virus spread to 46k people, while over 180k were vaccinated.
That doesn't mean the virus can't spread - and its worth noting that vaccination numbers are well down on what they were in early June precisely because most people have already been vaccinated, twice. So the virus can spread but it can't make many people sick or die because vaccinations have won the race.
I remember the good old days when folk said we shouldn't worry about case numbers at all - the only metrics that counted were hospitalisations, ICU and deaths. All of which are inexorably rising, as expected after a lag with cases rising, with 96 deaths 'reported' yesterday and daily deaths rising quite rapidly. Hardly mentioned on here, unless I've missed it.
We shouldn't worry about case numbers at all - the only metrics that counted were hospitalisations, ICU and deaths. All of which are small.
Happy?
Not really.
Cancer and cardiac surgery being cancelled again at my Trust, Emergency Department overloaded.
Assuming they've opened their borders by then.....
Australia’s Brisbane to host 2032 Olympic Games Australian city was unanimously proposed as the single candidate for 2032 by the International Olympic Committee’s 15-strong executive board in June.
Chairman of M&S explaining that Brexit means lorries to the EU (or NI) now carry 700 pages of forms for inspection and delays of 24-48 hours at borders mean some perishable goods are being destroyed. The new paperwork is employing a team of 13 people.
Don't know what Archie Norman's point is. Brexit is his party's policy. Deal with it.
And as chaiman of M&S it is up to people in his company to manage the rules as they are and/or lobby for possible change - eg a Swiss style veterinary agreement is available now if the UK government didn't have such an irredentist view of sovereignty. Publicly moaning about regulation being ridiculous isn't useful in either getting rid of them or managing them.
At least M&S has the resources. Smaller businesses are Brexit red-taped out of the market.
The leadership of M&S raise Brexit everytime they have to face investors as they know it'll get the headline rather than their continued poor performance.
Their clothing is v poor and unstylish...
The men's clothing seems to be 'knock offs' of other High St stores. I use quotes because it tends to be a more expensive knock off!
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
You are forgetting England and Wales and NI would still have nuclear weapons and still be in NATO, so safe from Russian invasion in a way a Scotland without nuclear weapons and out of NATO would not be
NI would have re-united with the rest of the island by then, surely. And the way things are going, nuclear weapons in Wales would give rise to strong local objections.
The Catholic and Nationalist dominated border bits maybe the DUP dominated and Leave voting Antrim and East Londonderry and much of Down would prefer to stay with England and Wales.
Even Welsh Labour, the largest party in Wales, does not support giving up the nuclear deterrent and leaving NATO as many in the SNP do
"The Commons Standards Committee has found that Tory MPs Natalie Elphicke, Sir Roger Gale and Theresa Villiers should be suspended for one day over “an improper attempt to influence judicial proceedings”. Colonel Bob Sewart and Adam Holloway will also have to apologise to the house. The findings followed an invstigation into their attempts to lobby judges ahead of a hearing in court of former MP Charlie Elphicke. They stupidly used Commons stationery to lobby the justices…"
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
Russia would not invade. Russia would, however, step up its buzzing of Scottish airspace, forcing the Scottish Air Force to spend a small fortune on interceptions, so either Scotland would arrange for the RAF to carry these out, or invite the USAF. Either way, once they've done that, there is no reason leaving the nuclear weapons where they are could not be part of an agreement, which is where we came in. Similarly, the Russian navy might inspect Scotland's coastal defences.
Is non NATO member Ireland much troubled in this way? I'd imagine the continuing presence of Trident in an indy Scotland would exacerbate Russian attention rather than defuse it.
Anyone spot the obvious flaw in this Macron "quote" that's doing the rounds on Twitter:
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us.”
Which would still see a hung parliament on the UK Survation numbers and PM Starmer propped up by the SNP and LDs, the SDLP, PC, Alliance and Greens despite another Tory majority in England.
The DUP would not support the Tories again unless they removed the Irish Sea border
Err… yes. Thanks. Hate to be a pain, but I repeat my question:
Scottish figures are largely irrelevant to the UK total unless the SCons take the lead as the SNP will prop up Labour anyway, so your Scottish subsample demand is also largely irrelevant.
However the Scottish figures are SNP 39%, Tories 22%, Labour 19%, Greens 5%, LDs 4%
Nope. Now you’re answering a question I did not ask. I know it’s terribly old-fashioned, but could you give a straight answer to a straight question? Please inform us where you got the figures you pumped in to Martin Baxter’s ElectoralCalculus calculator:
For unless the Scottish Conservatives take the lead in Scotland whether the SNP lead or SLab lead it makes no difference, their MPs will both make Starmer PM
Nope, you are still obfuscating. The link you provided does not contain the numbers you yourself pumped into Baxter’s calculator.
Please inform us where you got the figures you entered in to the ElectoralCalculus calculator:
Nope Nats like you have got to realise not all polls revolve around you, I have now given you both the UK and Scottish Survation figures both of which would make Starmer PM with minor parties support, exactly as the 2019 Scottish numbers would.
You are Labour's little helpers at Westminster so obviously we don't give a toss precisely how many little Nationalists there are at Westminster as you will all be making Starmer PM anyway. Unless the SCons make significant gains in Scotland, Scottish figures are therefore irrelevant for UK elections
BritNats like you have got to realise that folk can see through all your huffing and puffing. Behind the bravado you’re shitting it.
Everybody can clearly see how you are allocating figures to the Scottish parties, so it is you that is clearly obsessed with Scottish electoral behaviour.
Fascinatingly, you are predicting the following Unionist losses:
SNP gains from SCon: Aberdeenshire West and Kincardine Dumfries and Galloway (Alister Jack, Secretary of State for Scotland) Moray (Douglas Ross, Leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party)
SNP gains from SLD: Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross Edinburgh West North East Fife Orkney and Shetland (Alistair Carmichael, former Secretary of State for Scotland)
As I also posted the actual Scottish figures show your pathetic party down to just 39% from the 45% you got in 2019.
However it matters not a jot, the little Nationalists would still have the numbers to prop up Starmer with the LDs and other minor parties in a hung parliament.
As long as we Tories are in power we can and will refuse indyref2 and as Union matters are reserved to Westminster under the Scotland Act 1998 there is sod all you can do about it.
If Starmer gets in however and needs your support to get in power and offers you indyref2 and devomax that is his affair not ours
I mean its your affair too as you’ll have to live with the consequence of the breakup of our country but I know your short-termism doesn't look that far ahead.
It would be disappointing of course but if Starmer gave in to the SNP because he needed their support to stay PM in a hung parliament and gave them a legal indyref2 and lost, even after offering Scots devomax then he would immediately lose power.
As soon as Scottish MPs left the Commons after a Scexit vote we Tories would return to power without an election as we would still have a majority in England, Wales and NI alone. We would then shift to an English Nationalist agenda and take as hard a line as possible with the SNP in Scexit talks. We would also dominate English politics for a further generation.
Labour meanwhile having lost Scotland would be utterly screwed. Only 5 times since 1945 have Labour won a majority without Scottish MPs, in 1945, 1966, 1997, 2001 and 2005 and most of those were under Blair
I'm far from sure that such policies would be as enduringly popular as you blithely assume.
If there was an indyref2 and the Scottish Nationalists won then English voters would immediately demand as hard a negotiation line as possible with the SNP and Scottish government in Scexit talks and no concessions whatsoever to the SNP.
Exactly the same as European voters demanded the EU take as hard a line as possible with the Tories and UK government after the Brexit vote.
London would have to take as hard a line as possible with Edinburgh as Brussels took with London in the Brexit talks or be replaced by a government that would.
The voters of southern England will be ecstatic when their new “English Nationalist” (sic) government imposes the concrete silos with 260 nuclear warheads. HS2 will look like a walk in the park.
No no no. We don't need silos darling, our nukes are sea launched. HYUFD will simply fire the missiles at the borders to create a physical border that will keep the dirty Scotch away from blessed Albion.
Do a bit of research into Coulport. Go and visit the area and drive around. Look at the fuzzed out areas on Google Maps. Those are immense concrete silos in them thar hills. Housing most of the nuclear warheads. Only a few are ever out at sea at any one time.
Now, ask yourself, which southern English national park is going to be the new home for those concrete silos?
We will find one with plenty of space, Cumbria likes nuclear power and subs which give them lots of jobs so round Barrow would be a choice.
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
HYUFD are you really predicting that if Scotland went indy and left NATO Russia would invade? Really?
An English Conservative cheering on the idea of Russia invading & occupying the only country with which England has a land border is pretty much the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Also add on geopolitical nitwittedness of course.
Russia would not invade. Russia would, however, step up its buzzing of Scottish airspace, forcing the Scottish Air Force to spend a small fortune on interceptions, so either Scotland would arrange for the RAF to carry these out, or invite the USAF. Either way, once they've done that, there is no reason leaving the nuclear weapons where they are could not be part of an agreement, which is where we came in. Similarly, the Russian navy might inspect Scotland's coastal defences.
In the event of Scottish independence the Trident subs will not be going anywhere. Any attempt to expel them would cause an enormous crisis in relations between rUK and the newly independent Scotland. In any event, the US would put enormous pressure on the Holyrood Govt.
Anyone voting for Indy in the belief that Scotland would be "nuclear-free" is likely to be very disappointed.
Comments
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-trader-scheme-launched-to-support-businesses-moving-goods-from-great-britain-to-northern-ireland
''GBNews is no longer the high minded project concerned with EU lunacy, immigration and the war on woke that I intended it to be. While I wish them well, it is with deep regret I must end our association and make my six week holiday permanent..'
Bien dit 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
https://twitter.com/gardenjardinage/status/1417705360538800129
Which is why the politicians framed the argument as one about 'audits'.
Under Ianucci and Baynham he was a far less developed character.
Otherwise the fine might sound reasonable...
Of course once the SNP have given up nukes and withdrawn from NATO we in England can then watch as Putin enters an independent Scotland without barely a fight and takes all the oil you are boasting about so much
Day with D in it? Mons. Macaron one man Punch and Judy Show episode 394.
English Labour voters
English Lib Dem voters
English Green voters
One Nation Tories
The Scots
The Welsh
Irish people who don’t vote DUP
The rest of the world
His universe is exceedingly small.
The money and efforts are focused on a very small area and the rest is ignored. Some of the people responsible for waste services in our area, for instance, haven't even visited here. Having a unitary authority for Cumbria is a disaster and I have said as much in response to the recent consultation.
As said in 2015 the Tories and UKIP got 54% of the vote combined in England and even in 2019 the 49% the Tories and BXP and UKIP got combined in England may well have been enough for a combined majority too, especially under an AMS or MMS, even PR is rarely pure PR.
https://nation.cymru/news/england-is-completely-ignored-campaigners-call-for-english-parliament-as-evel-is-scrapped/
Looks like it is gong to be a disaster. Let's hope not.
The number of people who can get sick and die is shrinking by hundreds of thousands per day, faster than the virus can spread. Yesterday the virus spread to 46k people, while over 180k were vaccinated.
That doesn't mean the virus can't spread - and its worth noting that vaccination numbers are well down on what they were in early June precisely because most people have already been vaccinated, twice. So the virus can spread but it can't make many people sick or die because vaccinations have won the race.
I'm not sure what the optimum time frame is but it has to be way less than the 3 hours I suspect it takes to get from Carlisle to parts of the Southern Lakes.
North Yorkshire has similar issues - how do you split a county with very few east west and north south routes.
And in County Durham they destroyed Bishop Auckland in one swoop by allowing an out of town centre to be built on the outskirts via votes from councillors who had never visited the place.
The refugees should go there - English speaking and in the EU, what more could they want.
Boris is self-obsessed, extremely lazy, and for once I'd disagree slightly with Mr Dancer. I'd say he's amoral, but if he gained any morals, he'd be immoral. He's reached his exalted position through bluff and connections.
Therefore an excellent PM.
Lacking principles, he concentrates on survival. His only hope is to appoint competent deputies, and as long as he wins more than he loses, he will succeed. He will irritate those with delusions of their own competence. Cummings is an example. In his own mind, he can do a much better job, but he misunderstands the point of being a PM.
First, do no harm. Make your enemies angry and they will appear obsessed. Angry people convince no one.
Do not micro-manage. You are not an expert, but you don't need to be. We have plenty of those.
Model yourself on JFK. Surround yourself with competent advisors, but stand to one side and make your own decisions. It's your own survival that ranks first. Take advantage when you're in a strong position. Know your enemy. Lie when necessary. October 1962 was his finest hour. Jupiter rockets in Turkey were merely symbolic but a potent lever to out-manoeuvre Mr K during the Cuban missile crisis.
By comparison, the EU vaccine minister was a seven-year-old child Job done.
Revel in your opponents bile - but this is optional.
It enables Johnson to campaign at the next election on protecting Brexit - because the only solution to the NI trade issues that doesn't upset either side in NI is for Britain to have a closer economic relationship with the EU.
At some point Starmer will be unable to resist stating the obvious, and there you have a rallying call for the next general election:
"Labour still don't get it. They won't accept that we voted for Brexit. Vote Boris to save Brexit"
If it is confirmed that fresh foods are being left to rot undelivered because of pinging, he will be able to litter his public utterances with references to 'ping pong'. Would be in character.
Maybe Norman is lobbying the UK government for something unrelated by being Brexiteer-than-thou. That might make some sense.
The other interesting point is once the Scots and English border counties come together for the benefit of the whole region, independence becomes far more problematic for them
Contrarian thinks the anti-vaxxers are the heroic people and they're the ones most likely to die.
Maybe he fancies becoming an antivax martyr himself.
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-mission-new-secretary-general-jens-stoltenberg-successor/
I am all for respecting different views but this is meant to be a forum for intelligent debate, not wild fantasy
"/>
But the point is that the benefits won't accrue across the region because the current Cumbria County Council leadership is obsessed with extending links with Scotland and ignoring the rest of the county.
So there is a current project to extend cycling routes down the West coast of Cumbria to South Lakeland and join it up with existing cycle paths. Husband is working on this. This would be beneficial for all sorts of reasons. Does the Council care or help? Bollocks it does. It is only interested in cycling routes into Scotland.
You had your chance.
https://twitter.com/DamianGreen/status/1417610497038356483?s=20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_debate_in_the_Scottish_National_Party
We’ve published new analysis of the impacts that long COVID has on adults in Great Britain.
6.2% of adults may have experienced long COVID since the start of the pandemic. This includes 3.6% who said they had and 2.6% who said they were unsure
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1417764542206066688?s=20
There are clearly multiple factors involved
Could be a winner.
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1417765332048023552?s=20
And Brisbane to hold 2032 Summer Olympics
We'd have no need of tinkers.
That MP then supports his party leader who happens to be Boris - but those MPs can change their mind at any time (see for example T May).
I think the current rate of increase of Covid patients in hospital is >30% week-on-week.
Now, hopefully everything will top out soon. But the situation is much more dicey than I expected it would be a month ago.
French President Macron: "I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my daughters, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you are staying at home, not us.”
https://twitter.com/gardenjardinage/status/1417705360538800129?s=20
The New Zealand/Taiwan model will always be the best
Happy?
End of days when Waitrose has gone to pot
I suspect the 2036 olympics will be in Europe somewhere it will be interesting to see whether either of the German or Spanish bids get anywhere.
Cancer and cardiac surgery being cancelled again at my Trust, Emergency Department overloaded.
Happy days.
Australia’s Brisbane to host 2032 Olympic Games
Australian city was unanimously proposed as the single candidate for 2032 by the International Olympic Committee’s 15-strong executive board in June.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/21/australias-brisbane-named-hosts-of-the-2032-olympics
Even Welsh Labour, the largest party in Wales, does not support giving up the nuclear deterrent and leaving NATO as many in the SNP do
https://order-order.com
I'd imagine the continuing presence of Trident in an indy Scotland would exacerbate Russian attention rather than defuse it.
Perhaps he is doing the 'normal for a President of the Republic"'.
My eldest son lived there from 2003 until leaving to live in Canada in 2015
It is a wonderful country but miles away from its nearest neighbours in Australia
In the event of Scottish independence the Trident subs will not be going anywhere. Any attempt to expel them would cause an enormous crisis in relations between rUK and the newly independent Scotland. In any event, the US would put enormous pressure on the Holyrood Govt.
Anyone voting for Indy in the belief that Scotland would be "nuclear-free" is likely to be very disappointed.