The front pages not good for ministers on the eve of what was designated Freedom day – politicalbett
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Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.5 -
If they all voted against the Tories would also make a Tory government, even a minority one, impossible too howeverDougSeal said:
That would involve a lot of disparate tribes playing nicely with one another. Ain’t happening.HYUFD said:
While that fragmentation means Starmer has near zero chance of winning a Labour majority, coupled with the fact he does not have the appeal in the Northern Red Wall Andy Burnham does, it does not mean he cannot become PM.DougSeal said:
Again, here’s the problem. Identified in your post are competing tribes of Trots, Corbynistas and (impliedly) Starmerites. That’s before we get to the LDs, the Greens, SNP and PC. With fragmentation like that…DecrepiterJohnL said:
Corbyn is already suspended. What difference has it made? There is a problem with the trots (who made the antisemitic attacks on Luciana Berger) but they are not the same as the Corbynistas. The problem Starmer has is that he has provided no reason for voting Labour and no reason for voting against a government led by a corrupt and incompetent liar. Corbyn is an irrelevance. The trouble is, for most voters, so is Keir Starmer.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
If the Tories lose their majority at the next general election it is perfectly possible Starmer could become PM propped up by the LDs (if they make significant gains in southern Tory Remain seats like Chesham), SNP, Greens and PC, SDLP and Alliance with the DUP abstaining unlike 2017 because of the Irish Sea border even if the Tories have still won most seats0 -
Good morning Malcmalcolmg said:
Dear God, what a line up of absoute useless donkeys. If that is the best the Tories have even useless Starmer can have hope.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You could be right, but right now any one of Rishi, Hunt, Raab, or Truss would be a huge improvementydoethur said:
If - as I expect - this turns into a PR disaster it also won’t look good for your favourite Sunak.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I deleted it days ago as did my family and our WhatsApp groupturbotubbs said:Colour me shocked. PM and chancellor have been pinged (assume by contact with the health secretary). Guess what, they will be partaking of the trial that means they don’t have to isolate...
I will be deleting the ap today. This is the last straw. Feckers
To be honest Boris and HMG deserve all the criticism they are receiving
Their PR is worse than even Ratner
Pile on Hunt to be next leader.
I would just say the one thing that may save then ironically is the good sense of the vast majority of the public who will not cast off all care tomorrow, but practice their own common sense
Indeed my son and his partner, their parents and our family are going into self imposed lockdown from tomorrow, to do our best to keep covid away from having a serious consequence for their wedding on the 31st July
I expect a slump in their poll ratings for Boris and HMG which would be entirely self inflicted
Lovely day here and I assume the same in Ayrshire
To be honest it is far to nice a day to get 'ravelled up' over politics so a bit of gardening then to watch the open for me today0 -
It is f*cking inevitable now. As we all no longer need to self-isolate when pinged. F*ck that.Scott_xP said:“I think 100,000 cases a day is almost inevitable” says Prof Neil Fergusson
Predicts 1,000 hospitalisations a day coming too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone1 -
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?0 -
Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
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Hunt, Raab or Truss would all have less electoral appeal than Boris, even if they may have more competence, Hunt and Truss in particular would go down badly in the Red Wall as ex Remainers who are more pro lower spending than Boris. They would be a gift to Starmer.malcolmg said:
Dear God, what a line up of absoute useless donkeys. If that is the best the Tories have even useless Starmer can have hope.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You could be right, but right now any one of Rishi, Hunt, Raab, or Truss would be a huge improvementydoethur said:
If - as I expect - this turns into a PR disaster it also won’t look good for your favourite Sunak.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I deleted it days ago as did my family and our WhatsApp groupturbotubbs said:Colour me shocked. PM and chancellor have been pinged (assume by contact with the health secretary). Guess what, they will be partaking of the trial that means they don’t have to isolate...
I will be deleting the ap today. This is the last straw. Feckers
To be honest Boris and HMG deserve all the criticism they are receiving
Their PR is worse than even Ratner
Pile on Hunt to be next leader.
I would just say the one thing that may save then ironically is the good sense of the vast majority of the public who will not cast off all care tomorrow, but practice their own common sense
Indeed my son and his partner, their parents and our family are going into self imposed lockdown from tomorrow, to do our best to keep covid away from having a serious consequence for their wedding on the 31st July
I expect a slump in their poll ratings for Boris and HMG which would be entirely self inflicted
Rishi would also have slightly less appeal in the Red Wall than Boris but more than they do and might be able to make up for it with gains in the Remain areas of the Home Counties and posher areas of London which are where Boris is weakest, however overall he would not add anything either
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You were specifically replying to a news story that had been posted saying cases would be 40k a day in July.another_richard said:
I said it was bollox that cases would extrapolate to infinity and I was extremely sceptical that cases would exceed the peak in January as that didn't happen in Bolton or Blackburn.Alistair said:FTPT
You said "its bollox" that we'd get to 40,000 cases a day by July because of "the data from Bolton, Blackburn, Bedfordshire and Kirklees".another_richard said:
Look at the data and see the reality.Alistair said:
Absolutely tremendous goalpost shifting.another_richard said:
Kirklees has significantly fewer cases now than it did last autumn:Alistair said:
How is Kirklees working out for you?another_richard said:
Are you really trying to compare individual days now with a weekly average in a different period ?Alistair said:
That fact that Bolton peaked in May was used as extremely confident evidence that Delta had burned out fast.rcs1000 said:
Eh?Alistair said:I see Bolton now has 2 days of cases above their May 7-day average peak.
The mathematically impossible has happened!
Who claimed it was mathematically impossible for cases to be above May peaks?
Delta is highly transmissable. Schools are (or were) operating normally. And children are unvaccinated.
The question is what happens next, now that schools break up, the weather has improved and the Euros are behind us.
It had ripped through the remaining unvaccinated and that was it done. With increasing vaccination numbers there was no new people to infect and it was over. Delta had flared briefly and was gone with only faint echoes in the surrounding counties.
Cases 100% deffo peaked at less than 10k.
Really ???
Edit: thr implication is that the Bol on current 7 day average is going to rise pas the May "peak".
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Kirklees
Different places have different levels of cases and over different periods of time but its quite clear that nowhere goes exponential to infinity.
Just, Phenomenal.
You seem to be a bit bitter that things aren't bad enough.
Strange. Very strange.
I looked at the data (as you requested above) and saw the reality that new cases in Kirklees has gone vastly higher than when you said that and that Bolton and Bedfordshire's fall has stalled and in fact new cases have been increasing for the last month.
And we are over 40,000 cases a day.
Yet somehow you think your predictions were correct and you didn't pronounce too hastily given the data available?
It's a view I suppose.
And infections are certainly not going to extrapolate to infinity and, so far, haven't reached the level of January.
Though the pattern I pointed out of local cases not exceeding their previous peaks has been broken in parts of the North-East and Yorkshire. Why that has happened in July when it didn't happen in the North-West in June I don't know but I would speculate that the football led to more super-spreader events than the slow seepage in Lancashire and they will have a higher but narrower peak. On a more positive side London has been affected much less by Delta than it was in the winter wave, again for reasons we cannot be sure about.
I do find it fascinating that you are so obsessed at trying, and failing, to prove that things are so much worse than some people thought they would be.
Yet you spend no time being concerned about any predictions of enormous numbers of infections and collapsing health services.
Perhaps you actually want higher cases and more deaths because winning a pointless argument on the internet is more important to you than the damage to people's lives which would result from it.
Not some nonsense about extrapolating to infinity.
I'm talking about basic factual matters.
I am not trying to win some "Doomier than thou" competition. If you have payed any attention to my posts you would see that I am intensely relaxed about the situation and am socialising happily at the moment.
But I am just positively delighted that once again we have total denial of reality and not a shred of contrition or self reflection on confident predictions being busted.
The carry on as normal crew on here have been relentless
No worse than flu in March 2020
Already Over in April
Herd Immunity Achieved in May
False Positivises in August
Casedemic in September
No Second Wave in October
Already peaked by mid October
Over by Christmas in November
and now
Cases cannot rise any further in June
And it's the same people again and again (and again).
What we as a nation do next is a super interesting question that I'd lvoe to discuss but as I said to rcs yesterday it's hard to take seriously people who have shown zero ability to learn from their past mistakes.10 -
Well, even on the raw figures without allowing for any time lag at all, the hospitalisation rate is 1.4%. Allowing for a time lag probably about twice that. So even the people testing positive right now will produce well over 1000 hospitalisations a day.Scott_xP said:“I think 100,000 cases a day is almost inevitable” says Prof Neil Fergusson
Predicts 1,000 hospitalisations a day coming too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
Just the same as his recent prediction of "50 or so" deaths a day, which was surpassed about a week after he made it.0 -
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Senior ministers think they are being clever. They are not.OldKingCole said:
Good morning everybody.alex_ said:
Seems to me that the "pilot" scheme is likely to be a lot better and more effective scheme than the current situation. So if everyone starts doing it instead then IMO that would be a good thing...StuartDickson said:‘A quarantine dodge by Boris Johnson after meeting COVID-positive Sajid Javid would unleash a massive 'do as I say, not as I do' row‘
The timing could hardly be worse. A little more than 24 hours before what he used to call Freedom Day, Boris Johnson is under pressure to self-isolate.
[Mr Javid] has had two jabs, both Oxford AstraZeneca.
While the PM will no doubt be angry and frustrated at being "pinged", there are worse places to self-isolate than the 16th-century grace-and-favour mansion in the beautiful rolling countryside of the Chiltern Hills.
"If Boris doesn't isolate and uses this 'pilot scheme', I will be encouraging my constituents to do the same," one unnamed Tory MP was quoted as saying. "There cannot be one rule for us and one for everyone else."
“Unnamed Tory MP. Ho ho. Next PM market:
Rishi Sunak 14/5
Michael Gove 10/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
Dominic Raab 20/1
Spot the sneak.
How does one get on the 'pilot scheme'? As far as I can see it only applies to senior ministers.0 -
Yes. The worse the Tories are the more fearful people become of making things worse by turfing them out.Gallowgate said:Anyway. Con +2%
A massive loss of self confidence and respect masked by a fragile nationalism.
It's why no-one is held to account for massive failure or corruption. We've stopped believing it can ever be better.1 -
I honestly think this will now spiral completely out of this government's control now.
It is clear there is already mounting anger over the pingdemic.
Today's news will just blow that completely out of the water.
No one is going to listen to a bloody word they say now.
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It immediately gives all the double vaccinated an excuse not to self-isolate if they do not want to / think it unnecessary.noneoftheabove said:
If the govt impose insane rules on millions over the last month, they surely can't simply ignore the rules for themselves?DavidL said:
The only thing that is insane about it is that it doesn't apply to everyone else too.rottenborough said:
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
1h
I cannot think of a more politically insane decision in my lifetime than the one Boris has just taken on self-isolation.
This is not like it only impacted dozens so ministers were not aware.
It might be a more effective way of doing so that an actual formal statement to that effect.
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I would expect higher on both, especially daily cases but still manageable numbers.Scott_xP said:“I think 100,000 cases a day is almost inevitable” says Prof Neil Fergusson
Predicts 1,000 hospitalisations a day coming too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone0 -
You still do. It is the special ones who don't.rottenborough said:
It is f*cking inevitable now. As we all no longer need to self-isolate when pinged. F*ck that.Scott_xP said:“I think 100,000 cases a day is almost inevitable” says Prof Neil Fergusson
Predicts 1,000 hospitalisations a day coming too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
In Johnson's brand of social equality, it's like the pigs in Animal Farm, everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.0 -
Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!franklyn said:Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
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And given that the success of Step 4 depends a fair bit on lots of people acting as if we're still at Step 3 for a while, that's a problem.rottenborough said:Every parent in England is going to go f*cking mad when they hear the news.
Millions will now delete the app.
For right-of-centre politics to work, it needs to be anchored in something that forces you to think about others.
That can be patrician noblesse oblige, a Grantham or Brixton upbringing, even European Christian Democracy. Strip those away and you can be left with pure selfishness. As we're seeing.2 -
He also realises there will never be an independent Scotland with the blessed NicolaOldKingCole said:
Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!franklyn said:Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
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There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.Leon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous2 -
Haters got to hate.RochdalePioneers said:Morning all. However bad it gets. However hamfisted and stupid he is. The PM Clown Apologists will still come on and insist He is resplendent in his new clothes and that we definitely can't all see his cock.
(Not just you but it makes for a dull thread)1 -
It's complete bollocks though. South Africa may have descended into a violent, corrupt basket-case but not because of CRT which aside from anything else is an American concept.Leon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous2 -
If this is levelling up, I don't want to me levelled.Mexicanpete said:
You still do. It is the special ones who don't.rottenborough said:
It is f*cking inevitable now. As we all no longer need to self-isolate when pinged. F*ck that.Scott_xP said:“I think 100,000 cases a day is almost inevitable” says Prof Neil Fergusson
Predicts 1,000 hospitalisations a day coming too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
In Johnson's brand of social equality, it's like the pigs in Animal Farm, everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.
1 -
Whereas for left-wing policies to work there needs to be a willingness to work together, to co-operate for the common good.Stuartinromford said:
And given that the success of Step 4 depends a fair bit on lots of people acting as if we're still at Step 3 for a while, that's a problem.rottenborough said:Every parent in England is going to go f*cking mad when they hear the news.
Millions will now delete the app.
For right-of-centre politics to work, it needs to be anchored in something that forces you to think about others.
That can be patrician noblesse oblige, a Grantham or Brixton upbringing, even European Christian Democracy. Strip those away and you can be left with pure selfishness. As we're seeing.
The ability to do that was, allegedly, one of the means by which we superseded the Neanderthals, Denisovians etc., who were apparently less able to do so.1 -
Even had we delayed Freedom Day until September when almost everyone would have been offered both jabs we would still have had lots of new cases in the weeks after as the vaccine does not eliminate your chance of catching Covid.Alistair said:
You were specifically replying to a news story that had been posted saying cases would be 40k a day in July.another_richard said:
I said it was bollox that cases would extrapolate to infinity and I was extremely sceptical that cases would exceed the peak in January as that didn't happen in Bolton or Blackburn.Alistair said:FTPT
You said "its bollox" that we'd get to 40,000 cases a day by July because of "the data from Bolton, Blackburn, Bedfordshire and Kirklees".another_richard said:
Look at the data and see the reality.Alistair said:
Absolutely tremendous goalpost shifting.another_richard said:
Kirklees has significantly fewer cases now than it did last autumn:Alistair said:
How is Kirklees working out for you?another_richard said:
Are you really trying to compare individual days now with a weekly average in a different period ?Alistair said:
That fact that Bolton peaked in May was used as extremely confident evidence that Delta had burned out fast.rcs1000 said:
Eh?Alistair said:I see Bolton now has 2 days of cases above their May 7-day average peak.
The mathematically impossible has happened!
Who claimed it was mathematically impossible for cases to be above May peaks?
Delta is highly transmissable. Schools are (or were) operating normally. And children are unvaccinated.
The question is what happens next, now that schools break up, the weather has improved and the Euros are behind us.
It had ripped through the remaining unvaccinated and that was it done. With increasing vaccination numbers there was no new people to infect and it was over. Delta had flared briefly and was gone with only faint echoes in the surrounding counties.
Cases 100% deffo peaked at less than 10k.
Really ???
Edit: thr implication is that the Bol on current 7 day average is going to rise pas the May "peak".
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Kirklees
Different places have different levels of cases and over different periods of time but its quite clear that nowhere goes exponential to infinity.
Just, Phenomenal.
You seem to be a bit bitter that things aren't bad enough.
Strange. Very strange.
I looked at the data (as you requested above) and saw the reality that new cases in Kirklees has gone vastly higher than when you said that and that Bolton and Bedfordshire's fall has stalled and in fact new cases have been increasing for the last month.
And we are over 40,000 cases a day.
Yet somehow you think your predictions were correct and you didn't pronounce too hastily given the data available?
It's a view I suppose.
And infections are certainly not going to extrapolate to infinity and, so far, haven't reached the level of January.
Though the pattern I pointed out of local cases not exceeding their previous peaks has been broken in parts of the North-East and Yorkshire. Why that has happened in July when it didn't happen in the North-West in June I don't know but I would speculate that the football led to more super-spreader events than the slow seepage in Lancashire and they will have a higher but narrower peak. On a more positive side London has been affected much less by Delta than it was in the winter wave, again for reasons we cannot be sure about.
I do find it fascinating that you are so obsessed at trying, and failing, to prove that things are so much worse than some people thought they would be.
Yet you spend no time being concerned about any predictions of enormous numbers of infections and collapsing health services.
Perhaps you actually want higher cases and more deaths because winning a pointless argument on the internet is more important to you than the damage to people's lives which would result from it.
Not some nonsense about extrapolating to infinity.
I'm talking about basic factual matters.
I am not trying to win some "Doomier than thou" competition. If you have payed any attention to my posts you would see that I am intensely relaxed about the situation and am socialising happily at the moment.
But I am just positively delighted that once again we have total denial of reality and not a shred of contrition or self reflection on confident predictions being busted.
The carry on as normal crew on here have been relentless
No worse than flu in March 2020
Already Over in April
Herd Immunity Achieved in May
False Positivises in August
Casedemic in September
No Second Wave in October
Already peaked by mid October
Over by Christmas in November
and now
Cases cannot rise any further in June
And it's the same people again and again (and again).
What we as a nation do next is a super interesting question that I'd lvoe to discuss but as I said to rcs yesterday it's hard to take seriously people who have shown zero ability to learn from their past mistakes.
The vaccine only near eliminates your chance of getting severely bad symptoms from Covid, being hospitalised and dying from it.
We have to be realistic and accept we will always have Covid cases even with the vaccine0 -
On another, much larger and non-political, forum I am seeing plenty of people saying that they have been offered it or know people who were.OldKingCole said:
I believe you, of course, but it's 'odd' that three (at least) senior ministers appear to have been included in the pilot, but no-one here appears to have been.prh47bridge said:
The pilot has been running since 9th May when it had a target of covering 40,000 people. Anyone contacted by NHS Test and Trace is offered the chance to join the pilot. They are eligible to take part if they don't have symptoms, are 18 or over, live in England, are not in full time education and are not under quarantine rules. You can read about it at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-40000-person-daily-contact-testing-study. So no, this isn't something special for senior ministers and they are not being treated differently from the rest of us.OldKingCole said:
Good morning everybody.alex_ said:
Seems to me that the "pilot" scheme is likely to be a lot better and more effective scheme than the current situation. So if everyone starts doing it instead then IMO that would be a good thing...StuartDickson said:‘A quarantine dodge by Boris Johnson after meeting COVID-positive Sajid Javid would unleash a massive 'do as I say, not as I do' row‘
The timing could hardly be worse. A little more than 24 hours before what he used to call Freedom Day, Boris Johnson is under pressure to self-isolate.
[Mr Javid] has had two jabs, both Oxford AstraZeneca.
While the PM will no doubt be angry and frustrated at being "pinged", there are worse places to self-isolate than the 16th-century grace-and-favour mansion in the beautiful rolling countryside of the Chiltern Hills.
"If Boris doesn't isolate and uses this 'pilot scheme', I will be encouraging my constituents to do the same," one unnamed Tory MP was quoted as saying. "There cannot be one rule for us and one for everyone else."
“Unnamed Tory MP. Ho ho. Next PM market:
Rishi Sunak 14/5
Michael Gove 10/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
Dominic Raab 20/1
Spot the sneak.
How does one get on the 'pilot scheme'? As far as I can see it only applies to senior ministers.0 -
No, Johnson appears to be making some very dangerous schoolboy errors....again.Charles said:
Haters got to hate.RochdalePioneers said:Morning all. However bad it gets. However hamfisted and stupid he is. The PM Clown Apologists will still come on and insist He is resplendent in his new clothes and that we definitely can't all see his cock.
(Not just you but it makes for a dull thread)0 -
Huh?Chris said:
Well, even on the raw figures without allowing for any time lag at all, the hospitalisation rate is 1.4%. Allowing for a time lag probably about twice that. So even the people testing positive right now will produce well over 1000 hospitalisations a day.Scott_xP said:“I think 100,000 cases a day is almost inevitable” says Prof Neil Fergusson
Predicts 1,000 hospitalisations a day coming too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcone
Just the same as his recent prediction of "50 or so" deaths a day, which was surpassed about a week after he made it.
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And anyone who gets pinged afterwards wont need to self-isolate any more. Yipee!!!!StuartDickson said:140,000 expected at the superspreader event at Silverstone. HMG has lost the plot.
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For completeness, there are also plenty of people on this other forum who haven't heard of the pilot and are claiming it is one rule for us, another for them.prh47bridge said:
On another, much larger and non-political, forum I am seeing plenty of people saying that they have been offered it or know people who were.OldKingCole said:
I believe you, of course, but it's 'odd' that three (at least) senior ministers appear to have been included in the pilot, but no-one here appears to have been.prh47bridge said:
The pilot has been running since 9th May when it had a target of covering 40,000 people. Anyone contacted by NHS Test and Trace is offered the chance to join the pilot. They are eligible to take part if they don't have symptoms, are 18 or over, live in England, are not in full time education and are not under quarantine rules. You can read about it at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-40000-person-daily-contact-testing-study. So no, this isn't something special for senior ministers and they are not being treated differently from the rest of us.OldKingCole said:
Good morning everybody.alex_ said:
Seems to me that the "pilot" scheme is likely to be a lot better and more effective scheme than the current situation. So if everyone starts doing it instead then IMO that would be a good thing...StuartDickson said:‘A quarantine dodge by Boris Johnson after meeting COVID-positive Sajid Javid would unleash a massive 'do as I say, not as I do' row‘
The timing could hardly be worse. A little more than 24 hours before what he used to call Freedom Day, Boris Johnson is under pressure to self-isolate.
[Mr Javid] has had two jabs, both Oxford AstraZeneca.
While the PM will no doubt be angry and frustrated at being "pinged", there are worse places to self-isolate than the 16th-century grace-and-favour mansion in the beautiful rolling countryside of the Chiltern Hills.
"If Boris doesn't isolate and uses this 'pilot scheme', I will be encouraging my constituents to do the same," one unnamed Tory MP was quoted as saying. "There cannot be one rule for us and one for everyone else."
“Unnamed Tory MP. Ho ho. Next PM market:
Rishi Sunak 14/5
Michael Gove 10/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
Dominic Raab 20/1
Spot the sneak.
How does one get on the 'pilot scheme'? As far as I can see it only applies to senior ministers.1 -
It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worseDougSeal said:
There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.Leon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous0 -
(((Dan Hodges)))
@DPJHodges
·
3m
I was told there will be a meeting tomorrow to consider a "reasonable excuse" exemption for "some" critical workers prior to August 16. But that implies the vast majority of critical workers aren't currently covered by the scheme Boris and Rishi are using. So why aren't they?
It just gets better. To cover their arses over this non isolating scandal they now are going to let a few nurses in on the scheme as well.
F*cking twats.1 -
adrian mcmenamin
@adrianmcmenamin
My gut feeling is that this is going to make the Barnard Castle story look like a walk in the park2 -
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.0 -
How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-578773731 -
It is a complete failure to see the big picture that troubles me. We obsessively self flagellate ourselves about how quickly we can convert to electric vehicles here and what we can do to reduce our 1% of carbon emissions and yet stand by as the lungs of the planet in the Amazon switch from being a carbon sink to a carbon producer. The money we spend trying to reduce our miniscule contribution could do so much more good elsewhere but so many environmentalists are really obsessed with bullying and control and their moral superiority here that the argument is not even made.Leon said:
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?
Until we bring some proper science to this and focus on what actually matters and what actually works rather than do goodery we will sink ever deeper into the mire.5 -
Let’s end the infighting once and for all with a last round of infightingRochdalePioneers said:
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.0 -
Tremendous work by the Govt and its scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change1 -
Reference? Good, if that is the case, but I'm sure you'll forgive me for thinking that it's still a remarkable coincidence that so many cabinet ministers are included.prh47bridge said:
On another, much larger and non-political, forum I am seeing plenty of people saying that they have been offered it or know people who were.OldKingCole said:
I believe you, of course, but it's 'odd' that three (at least) senior ministers appear to have been included in the pilot, but no-one here appears to have been.prh47bridge said:
The pilot has been running since 9th May when it had a target of covering 40,000 people. Anyone contacted by NHS Test and Trace is offered the chance to join the pilot. They are eligible to take part if they don't have symptoms, are 18 or over, live in England, are not in full time education and are not under quarantine rules. You can read about it at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-40000-person-daily-contact-testing-study. So no, this isn't something special for senior ministers and they are not being treated differently from the rest of us.OldKingCole said:
Good morning everybody.alex_ said:
Seems to me that the "pilot" scheme is likely to be a lot better and more effective scheme than the current situation. So if everyone starts doing it instead then IMO that would be a good thing...StuartDickson said:‘A quarantine dodge by Boris Johnson after meeting COVID-positive Sajid Javid would unleash a massive 'do as I say, not as I do' row‘
The timing could hardly be worse. A little more than 24 hours before what he used to call Freedom Day, Boris Johnson is under pressure to self-isolate.
[Mr Javid] has had two jabs, both Oxford AstraZeneca.
While the PM will no doubt be angry and frustrated at being "pinged", there are worse places to self-isolate than the 16th-century grace-and-favour mansion in the beautiful rolling countryside of the Chiltern Hills.
"If Boris doesn't isolate and uses this 'pilot scheme', I will be encouraging my constituents to do the same," one unnamed Tory MP was quoted as saying. "There cannot be one rule for us and one for everyone else."
“Unnamed Tory MP. Ho ho. Next PM market:
Rishi Sunak 14/5
Michael Gove 10/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
Dominic Raab 20/1
Spot the sneak.
How does one get on the 'pilot scheme'? As far as I can see it only applies to senior ministers.1 -
Awkward observation 10,057 ...rottenborough said:I honestly think this will now spiral completely out of this government's control now.
It is clear there is already mounting anger over the pingdemic.
Today's news will just blow that completely out of the water.
No one is going to listen to a bloody word they say now.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/worrying-me-quite-bit-mrna-vaccine-inventor-shares-viral-thread-showing-covid-surge-most
Yes, it appears that it suppresses your own immune system for a short time and that could have explained some of the spike in deaths last winter. But it doesn't seem to explain this.
The media censorship is unprecedented and chilling. Facebook yesterday blocked a debate on the COVID jabs between Prof David Livermore and Prof Peter McCullough at this event ...
https://www.questioneverything.io/live/
They transmitted direct as well so only people on Facebook noticed Big Brother, er sorry Mark Zuckerberg, pull the plug.0 -
I suspect the security services are uncomfortable about the WFH (obviously Johnson is different)RochdalePioneers said:
andSouthamObserver said:From Guido - "Boris and Rishi pinged by test and trace, however are both participating in daily testing trial so will continue working in Downing Street"
One rule for them, another for everyone else.
You have to ask just how dumb the clown and his advisers are. The pingdemic is causing absolute havoc. And here we have the PM not having to suffer like the plebs, doing a special "trial" of a "we are your betters know your place" process.turbotubbs said:Colour me shocked. PM and chancellor have been pinged (assume by contact with the health secretary). Guess what, they will be partaking of the trial that means they don’t have to isolate...
I will be deleting the ap today. This is the last straw. Feckers0 -
Ironically the Tory Party appears to work better together internally than any of its opponents.OldKingCole said:
Whereas for left-wing policies to work there needs to be a willingness to work together, to co-operate for the common good.Stuartinromford said:
And given that the success of Step 4 depends a fair bit on lots of people acting as if we're still at Step 3 for a while, that's a problem.rottenborough said:Every parent in England is going to go f*cking mad when they hear the news.
Millions will now delete the app.
For right-of-centre politics to work, it needs to be anchored in something that forces you to think about others.
That can be patrician noblesse oblige, a Grantham or Brixton upbringing, even European Christian Democracy. Strip those away and you can be left with pure selfishness. As we're seeing.
The ability to do that was, allegedly, one of the means by which we superseded the Neanderthals, Denisovians etc., who were apparently less able to do so.0 -
Even the Torygraph's not impressed:
A Marie Antoinette moment that shows it is one rule for us and another for this government.
Coronavirus latest news: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak pinged - but will not self-isolate https://telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-covid-cases-lockdown-deaths-nhs-app/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw via @Telegraph
https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1416673351762956297?s=201 -
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
It’s not a British failing, it’s a human failing. No one wants to accept the terrible reality of a lethal pandemic, so almost everyone errs towards optimismAlistair said:
You were specifically replying to a news story that had been posted saying cases would be 40k a day in July.another_richard said:
I said it was bollox that cases would extrapolate to infinity and I was extremely sceptical that cases would exceed the peak in January as that didn't happen in Bolton or Blackburn.Alistair said:FTPT
You said "its bollox" that we'd get to 40,000 cases a day by July because of "the data from Bolton, Blackburn, Bedfordshire and Kirklees".another_richard said:
Look at the data and see the reality.Alistair said:
Absolutely tremendous goalpost shifting.another_richard said:
Kirklees has significantly fewer cases now than it did last autumn:Alistair said:
How is Kirklees working out for you?another_richard said:
Are you really trying to compare individual days now with a weekly average in a different period ?Alistair said:
That fact that Bolton peaked in May was used as extremely confident evidence that Delta had burned out fast.rcs1000 said:
Eh?Alistair said:I see Bolton now has 2 days of cases above their May 7-day average peak.
The mathematically impossible has happened!
Who claimed it was mathematically impossible for cases to be above May peaks?
Delta is highly transmissable. Schools are (or were) operating normally. And children are unvaccinated.
The question is what happens next, now that schools break up, the weather has improved and the Euros are behind us.
It had ripped through the remaining unvaccinated and that was it done. With increasing vaccination numbers there was no new people to infect and it was over. Delta had flared briefly and was gone with only faint echoes in the surrounding counties.
Cases 100% deffo peaked at less than 10k.
Really ???
Edit: thr implication is that the Bol on current 7 day average is going to rise pas the May "peak".
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Kirklees
Different places have different levels of cases and over different periods of time but its quite clear that nowhere goes exponential to infinity.
Just, Phenomenal.
You seem to be a bit bitter that things aren't bad enough.
Strange. Very strange.
I looked at the data (as you requested above) and saw the reality that new cases in Kirklees has gone vastly higher than when you said that and that Bolton and Bedfordshire's fall has stalled and in fact new cases have been increasing for the last month.
And we are over 40,000 cases a day.
Yet somehow you think your predictions were correct and you didn't pronounce too hastily given the data available?
It's a view I suppose.
And infections are certainly not going to extrapolate to infinity and, so far, haven't reached the level of January.
Though the pattern I pointed out of local cases not exceeding their previous peaks has been broken in parts of the North-East and Yorkshire. Why that has happened in July when it didn't happen in the North-West in June I don't know but I would speculate that the football led to more super-spreader events than the slow seepage in Lancashire and they will have a higher but narrower peak. On a more positive side London has been affected much less by Delta than it was in the winter wave, again for reasons we cannot be sure about.
I do find it fascinating that you are so obsessed at trying, and failing, to prove that things are so much worse than some people thought they would be.
Yet you spend no time being concerned about any predictions of enormous numbers of infections and collapsing health services.
Perhaps you actually want higher cases and more deaths because winning a pointless argument on the internet is more important to you than the damage to people's lives which would result from it.
Not some nonsense about extrapolating to infinity.
I'm talking about basic factual matters.
I am not trying to win some "Doomier than thou" competition. If you have payed any attention to my posts you would see that I am intensely relaxed about the situation and am socialising happily at the moment.
But I am just positively delighted that once again we have total denial of reality and not a shred of contrition or self reflection on confident predictions being busted.
The carry on as normal crew on here have been relentless
No worse than flu in March 2020
Already Over in April
Herd Immunity Achieved in May
False Positivises in August
Casedemic in September
No Second Wave in October
Already peaked by mid October
Over by Christmas in November
and now
Cases cannot rise any further in June
And it's the same people again and again (and again).
What we as a nation do next is a super interesting question that I'd lvoe to discuss but as I said to rcs yesterday it's hard to take seriously people who have shown zero ability to learn from their past mistakes.
You saw the same process in World War 1. ‘Over by Christmas’. ‘The last big push in 1915’. ‘The somme will begin the drive to Berlin’
Imagine if you’d sat people down in August 1914 and said, ‘this war will last 4 years, it will kill tens of millions in futile trench warfare, it will topple empires and it will facilitate devastating plagues, and it will eventually lead to another, even worse world war with industrialized extermination of entire races’
You wouldn’t have been invited back to the Andrew Marr show
3 -
And here you are!Charles said:
Haters got to hate.RochdalePioneers said:Morning all. However bad it gets. However hamfisted and stupid he is. The PM Clown Apologists will still come on and insist He is resplendent in his new clothes and that we definitely can't all see his cock.
(Not just you but it makes for a dull thread)2 -
Do we seriously think any of the public is going to listen to any weaselly stories about how many are on this secret trial?OldKingCole said:
Reference? Good, if that is the case, but I'm sure you'll forgive me sort thinking that it's still a remarkable coincidence that so many cabinet ministers are included.prh47bridge said:
On another, much larger and non-political, forum I am seeing plenty of people saying that they have been offered it or know people who were.OldKingCole said:
I believe you, of course, but it's 'odd' that three (at least) senior ministers appear to have been included in the pilot, but no-one here appears to have been.prh47bridge said:
The pilot has been running since 9th May when it had a target of covering 40,000 people. Anyone contacted by NHS Test and Trace is offered the chance to join the pilot. They are eligible to take part if they don't have symptoms, are 18 or over, live in England, are not in full time education and are not under quarantine rules. You can read about it at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-40000-person-daily-contact-testing-study. So no, this isn't something special for senior ministers and they are not being treated differently from the rest of us.OldKingCole said:
Good morning everybody.alex_ said:
Seems to me that the "pilot" scheme is likely to be a lot better and more effective scheme than the current situation. So if everyone starts doing it instead then IMO that would be a good thing...StuartDickson said:‘A quarantine dodge by Boris Johnson after meeting COVID-positive Sajid Javid would unleash a massive 'do as I say, not as I do' row‘
The timing could hardly be worse. A little more than 24 hours before what he used to call Freedom Day, Boris Johnson is under pressure to self-isolate.
[Mr Javid] has had two jabs, both Oxford AstraZeneca.
While the PM will no doubt be angry and frustrated at being "pinged", there are worse places to self-isolate than the 16th-century grace-and-favour mansion in the beautiful rolling countryside of the Chiltern Hills.
"If Boris doesn't isolate and uses this 'pilot scheme', I will be encouraging my constituents to do the same," one unnamed Tory MP was quoted as saying. "There cannot be one rule for us and one for everyone else."
“Unnamed Tory MP. Ho ho. Next PM market:
Rishi Sunak 14/5
Michael Gove 10/1
Jeremy Hunt 12/1
Dominic Raab 20/1
Spot the sneak.
How does one get on the 'pilot scheme'? As far as I can see it only applies to senior ministers.
No they are f*cking not. They will hear that Johnson has not isolated and that is the end of it.
0 -
This is tacit advice from Johnson and Sunak to turn off the app.Scott_xP said:How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57877373
I take Government Covid advice seriously, so............ now deleted.0 -
There are 2 "pilot" schemes...
Housing Sec Robert Jenrick says it's very important for people to self-isolate if they are contacted by Test and Trace.
But the PM & Chancellor won't have to because they'll be taking part in a daily testing pilot #Phillips
The PM & Chancellor are able to take part in this daily testing pilot because Downing Street is one of a variety of selected organisations included in the scheme & has an asymptomatic testing site. Eligibility for the pilot is assessed on a case by case basis.
This trial is running in conjunction with the public scheme (👇) & is for workplaces with a testing site. The reference to people selected at "random" applies to the public study. Eligibility for the workplace study is assessed on a case by case basis.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-40000-person-daily-contact-testing-study https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/14166654264199864371 -
It’s largely outside and with a largely vaccinated public. As a nation we are pursuing a strategy where cases alone don’t matter, it’s just the impact on healthcare and death. It’s a calculated risk, with support from some, but not all, scientists. As silverstone themselves say, it only services by running events like this.StuartDickson said:140,000 expected at the superspreader event at Silverstone. HMG has lost the plot.
0 -
"challenging" is the BBC word for "fucking, land on Pluto, impossible"Scott_xP said:How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-578773731 -
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
So not all bad then?Leon said:
It’s not a British failing, it’s a human failing. No one wants to accept the terrible reality of a lethal pandemic, so almost everyone errs towards optimismAlistair said:
You were specifically replying to a news story that had been posted saying cases would be 40k a day in July.another_richard said:
I said it was bollox that cases would extrapolate to infinity and I was extremely sceptical that cases would exceed the peak in January as that didn't happen in Bolton or Blackburn.Alistair said:FTPT
You said "its bollox" that we'd get to 40,000 cases a day by July because of "the data from Bolton, Blackburn, Bedfordshire and Kirklees".another_richard said:
Look at the data and see the reality.Alistair said:
Absolutely tremendous goalpost shifting.another_richard said:
Kirklees has significantly fewer cases now than it did last autumn:Alistair said:
How is Kirklees working out for you?another_richard said:
Are you really trying to compare individual days now with a weekly average in a different period ?Alistair said:
That fact that Bolton peaked in May was used as extremely confident evidence that Delta had burned out fast.rcs1000 said:
Eh?Alistair said:I see Bolton now has 2 days of cases above their May 7-day average peak.
The mathematically impossible has happened!
Who claimed it was mathematically impossible for cases to be above May peaks?
Delta is highly transmissable. Schools are (or were) operating normally. And children are unvaccinated.
The question is what happens next, now that schools break up, the weather has improved and the Euros are behind us.
It had ripped through the remaining unvaccinated and that was it done. With increasing vaccination numbers there was no new people to infect and it was over. Delta had flared briefly and was gone with only faint echoes in the surrounding counties.
Cases 100% deffo peaked at less than 10k.
Really ???
Edit: thr implication is that the Bol on current 7 day average is going to rise pas the May "peak".
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases?areaType=ltla&areaName=Kirklees
Different places have different levels of cases and over different periods of time but its quite clear that nowhere goes exponential to infinity.
Just, Phenomenal.
You seem to be a bit bitter that things aren't bad enough.
Strange. Very strange.
I looked at the data (as you requested above) and saw the reality that new cases in Kirklees has gone vastly higher than when you said that and that Bolton and Bedfordshire's fall has stalled and in fact new cases have been increasing for the last month.
And we are over 40,000 cases a day.
Yet somehow you think your predictions were correct and you didn't pronounce too hastily given the data available?
It's a view I suppose.
And infections are certainly not going to extrapolate to infinity and, so far, haven't reached the level of January.
Though the pattern I pointed out of local cases not exceeding their previous peaks has been broken in parts of the North-East and Yorkshire. Why that has happened in July when it didn't happen in the North-West in June I don't know but I would speculate that the football led to more super-spreader events than the slow seepage in Lancashire and they will have a higher but narrower peak. On a more positive side London has been affected much less by Delta than it was in the winter wave, again for reasons we cannot be sure about.
I do find it fascinating that you are so obsessed at trying, and failing, to prove that things are so much worse than some people thought they would be.
Yet you spend no time being concerned about any predictions of enormous numbers of infections and collapsing health services.
Perhaps you actually want higher cases and more deaths because winning a pointless argument on the internet is more important to you than the damage to people's lives which would result from it.
Not some nonsense about extrapolating to infinity.
I'm talking about basic factual matters.
I am not trying to win some "Doomier than thou" competition. If you have payed any attention to my posts you would see that I am intensely relaxed about the situation and am socialising happily at the moment.
But I am just positively delighted that once again we have total denial of reality and not a shred of contrition or self reflection on confident predictions being busted.
The carry on as normal crew on here have been relentless
No worse than flu in March 2020
Already Over in April
Herd Immunity Achieved in May
False Positivises in August
Casedemic in September
No Second Wave in October
Already peaked by mid October
Over by Christmas in November
and now
Cases cannot rise any further in June
And it's the same people again and again (and again).
What we as a nation do next is a super interesting question that I'd lvoe to discuss but as I said to rcs yesterday it's hard to take seriously people who have shown zero ability to learn from their past mistakes.
You saw the same process in World War 1. ‘Over by Christmas’. ‘The last big push in 1915’. ‘The somme will begin the drive to Berlin’
Imagine if you’d sat people down in August 1914 and said, ‘this war will last 4 years, it will kill tens of millions in futile trench warfare, it will topple empires and it will facilitate devastating plagues, and it will eventually lead to another, even worse world war with industrialized extermination of entire races’
You wouldn’t have been invited back to the Andrew Marr show3 -
Mail website headline is now "Boris dodges pingdemic"
0 -
Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.Leon said:
It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worseDougSeal said:
There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.Leon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous1 -
Just end self isolation for the double vaccinated next week tooMexicanpete said:
This is tacit advice from Johnson and Sunak to turn off the app.Scott_xP said:How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57877373
I take Government Covid advice seriously, so............ now deleted.2 -
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
As someone somewhat sympathetic to the Labour cause, I only have to picture in my mind's eye the angry, ruddy face of the late Eric Heffer to remind me what irrational, incompetent, useless, nasty-party Labour looks like.DougSeal said:
Let’s end the infighting once and for all with a last round of infightingRochdalePioneers said:
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.1 -
Just lob a can of petrol at the fire...HYUFD said:
Just end self isolation for the double vaccinated next week tooMexicanpete said:
This is tacit advice from Johnson and Sunak to turn off the app.Scott_xP said:How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57877373
I take Government Covid advice seriously, so............ now deleted.2 -
Didn't we treat the Balearics differently to mainland Spain?HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change
1 -
It’s mostly outside, on a massive site, and as part of the research programme they are requesting negative tests or vaccination from all attendees.turbotubbs said:
It’s largely outside and with a largely vaccinated public. As a nation we are pursuing a strategy where cases alone don’t matter, it’s just the impact on healthcare and death. It’s a calculated risk, with support from some, but not all, scientists. As silverstone themselves say, it only services by running events like this.StuartDickson said:140,000 expected at the superspreader event at Silverstone. HMG has lost the plot.
0 -
Was it like this at the end of the Roman Empire?DavidL said:
It is a complete failure to see the big picture that troubles me. We obsessively self flagellate ourselves about how quickly we can convert to electric vehicles here and what we can do to reduce our 1% of carbon emissions and yet stand by as the lungs of the planet in the Amazon switch from being a carbon sink to a carbon producer. The money we spend trying to reduce our miniscule contribution could do so much more good elsewhere but so many environmentalists are really obsessed with bullying and control and their moral superiority here that the argument is not even made.Leon said:
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?
Until we bring some proper science to this and focus on what actually matters and what actually works rather than do goodery we will sink ever deeper into the mire.
That era was roiled by plagues, as well
The scale of dysfunction, decay and dissent feels unprecedented
I dunno. I wasn’t really aware of the 60s, maybe that felt as feverish as this. But the 60s were also a period of hope. People were rebelling to make the world better, however naively
Almost everywhere life seems to be getting worse. I mean, they’ve closed the fucking Atlantic bar at Sheekeys
I see the Tiber foaming with much blood1 -
Even Corbyn never managed to get as close to putting Labour in third place as Foot and Heffer did in 1983, Jenkins' SDP on 25% was just 2% behind Foot's Labour on 27%Mexicanpete said:
As someone somewhat sympathetic to the Labour cause, I only have to picture in my mind's eye the angry, ruddy face of the late Eric Heffer to remind me what irrational, incompetent, useless, nasty-party Labour looks like.DougSeal said:
Let’s end the infighting once and for all with a last round of infightingRochdalePioneers said:
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.1 -
Remind me how easy it is to get to Reunion from anywhere else. It's like saying we couldn't have isolated St Kilda!HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.Foxy said:
Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.Leon said:
It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worseDougSeal said:
There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.Leon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous1 -
Why not? We had a different isolation policy from the Balearics to mainland Spain until a few days ago. Ditto Madeira and mainland Portugal.HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change1 -
Don’t complicate things.SouthamObserver said:
Didn't we treat the Balearics differently to mainland Spain?HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
If you are double vaccinated you have a significantly lower risk of spreading Covid and also a near zero risk of being hospitalised or dying from itFoxy said:
Just lob a can of petrol at the fire...HYUFD said:
Just end self isolation for the double vaccinated next week tooMexicanpete said:
This is tacit advice from Johnson and Sunak to turn off the app.Scott_xP said:How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57877373
I take Government Covid advice seriously, so............ now deleted.0 -
Console yourself with the memory of voting for it...Leon said:Was it like this at the end of the Roman Empire?
That era was roiled by plagues, as well
The scale of dysfunction, decay and dissent feels unprecedented
I dunno. I wasn’t really aware of the 60s, maybe that felt as feverish as this. But the 60s were also a period of hope. People were rebelling to make the world better, however naively
Almost everywhere life seems to be getting worse. I mean, they’ve closed the fucking Atlantic bar at Sheekeys
I see the Tiber foaming with much blood0 -
If you flew directly yes, not if you went through mainland SpainSouthamObserver said:
Didn't we treat the Balearics differently to mainland Spain?HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change
No one flies direct from Reunion to London1 -
From what I see / hear / read the infighting never stopped. Its a fantasy to assume that the do nothing option is no infighting.DougSeal said:
Let’s end the infighting once and for all with a last round of infightingRochdalePioneers said:
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.
The preferred option of course was that both sides remember how to live with each other again. I just think its gone way beyond that.0 -
For a weekend slightly more open which was soon scrapped and they were all treated the same again but there will be plenty of movement between Reunion and mainland France and you have to go via France to get to Reunion and backSouthamObserver said:
Didn't we treat the Balearics differently to mainland Spain?HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
Good, hopefully everyone deletes it. Time to get back to normal.rottenborough said:Every parent in England is going to go f*cking mad when they hear the news.
Millions will now delete the app.1 -
But other people aren't.HYUFD said:
If you are double vaccinated you have a significantly lower risk of spreading Covid and also a near zero risk of being hospitalised or dying from itFoxy said:
Just lob a can of petrol at the fire...HYUFD said:
Just end self isolation for the double vaccinated next week tooMexicanpete said:
This is tacit advice from Johnson and Sunak to turn off the app.Scott_xP said:How bad is it? Not even LauraK can spin it with a straight face...
There is a pilot scheme available that gives some people a chance to do this, but the message this might send to the public when thousands upon thousands of people are being asked to self isolate is erm, challenging https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57877373
I take Government Covid advice seriously, so............ now deleted.0 -
There are times @Leon when you come across as a bit of a drama queen. You know that, right?Leon said:
Was it like this at the end of the Roman Empire?DavidL said:
It is a complete failure to see the big picture that troubles me. We obsessively self flagellate ourselves about how quickly we can convert to electric vehicles here and what we can do to reduce our 1% of carbon emissions and yet stand by as the lungs of the planet in the Amazon switch from being a carbon sink to a carbon producer. The money we spend trying to reduce our miniscule contribution could do so much more good elsewhere but so many environmentalists are really obsessed with bullying and control and their moral superiority here that the argument is not even made.Leon said:
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?
Until we bring some proper science to this and focus on what actually matters and what actually works rather than do goodery we will sink ever deeper into the mire.
That era was roiled by plagues, as well
The scale of dysfunction, decay and dissent feels unprecedented
I dunno. I wasn’t really aware of the 60s, maybe that felt as feverish as this. But the 60s were also a period of hope. People were rebelling to make the world better, however naively
Almost everywhere life seems to be getting worse. I mean, they’ve closed the fucking Atlantic bar at Sheekeys
I see the Tiber foaming with much blood0 -
Wonder how many Brits go holidaying on Reunion Island? All the rules say you aren’t allowed to evade quarantine by travelling via a “safe” airport. It wouldn’t be difficult to introduce a “Reunion” exception for France.Leon said:
If you flew directly yes, not if you went through mainland SpainSouthamObserver said:
Didn't we treat the Balearics differently to mainland Spain?HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change
No one flies direct from Reunion to London
The question anyway is whether anyone really thinks that the French exception was based on the idea that the Beta spike was 6000 miles away, as opposed to the Govt being clueless?
1 -
Of course, some people find the concept of devolution inherently invalid.Foxy said:
Why not? We had a different isolation policy from the Balearics to mainland Spain until a few days ago. Ditto Madeira and mainland Portugal.HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
“It will cover the few days before Parliament recess, so they don't have to risk going out when restrictions are lifted. Luckily we know when the next lockdown will be as their holiday ends 6th Sept.”Scott_xP said:Part of a pilot scheme for doing what the fuck I like. Going well so far.
https://twitter.com/almurray/status/14166679358301593610 -
Portugal does not even have devolutionCarnyx said:
Of course, some people find the concept of devolution inherently invalid.Foxy said:
Why not? We had a different isolation policy from the Balearics to mainland Spain until a few days ago. Ditto Madeira and mainland Portugal.HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
It's one rule for them and another for everyone else.
#PMQs https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1410260085008265216/video/11 -
The infighting in the Tory Party in 2019 was stopped by a fairly brutal round of expulsions from the Parliamentary Party.RochdalePioneers said:
From what I see / hear / read the infighting never stopped. Its a fantasy to assume that the do nothing option is no infighting.DougSeal said:
Let’s end the infighting once and for all with a last round of infightingRochdalePioneers said:
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.
The preferred option of course was that both sides remember how to live with each other again. I just think its gone way beyond that.
I don't think Johnson dares to expel May.
But just possibly that's a 'yet'. Or maybe she will go to NATO or something else 'consoling'.
1 -
Plenty of wealthy ones, often combined with the Seychelles or Mauritiusalex_ said:
Wonder how many Brits go holidaying on Reunion Island?Leon said:
If you flew directly yes, not if you went through mainland SpainSouthamObserver said:
Didn't we treat the Balearics differently to mainland Spain?HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change
No one flies direct from Reunion to London0 -
Er, yeahDavidL said:
There are times @Leon when you come across as a bit of a drama queen. You know that, right?Leon said:
Was it like this at the end of the Roman Empire?DavidL said:
It is a complete failure to see the big picture that troubles me. We obsessively self flagellate ourselves about how quickly we can convert to electric vehicles here and what we can do to reduce our 1% of carbon emissions and yet stand by as the lungs of the planet in the Amazon switch from being a carbon sink to a carbon producer. The money we spend trying to reduce our miniscule contribution could do so much more good elsewhere but so many environmentalists are really obsessed with bullying and control and their moral superiority here that the argument is not even made.Leon said:
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?
Until we bring some proper science to this and focus on what actually matters and what actually works rather than do goodery we will sink ever deeper into the mire.
That era was roiled by plagues, as well
The scale of dysfunction, decay and dissent feels unprecedented
I dunno. I wasn’t really aware of the 60s, maybe that felt as feverish as this. But the 60s were also a period of hope. People were rebelling to make the world better, however naively
Almost everywhere life seems to be getting worse. I mean, they’ve closed the fucking Atlantic bar at Sheekeys
I see the Tiber foaming with much blood
However this one of the few occasions when drama-queening is surely justified. We are in the middle of a global plague, which seems to be peaking as power shifts from the democratic west to the autocratic east, as our societies are riven with racial conflict, and as potentially calamitous climate change really says Hello
And the number of decent fish restaurants in London has halved. HALVED!!!2 -
The 40,000 person pilot scheme linked to above is not available to those in contact with someone infected by a variant of concern (read the small print). So, on the assumption that the Health Secretary has been infected by Delta that particular scheme is not available to the PM. It must be the workplace scheme for which, serendipitously, Downing Street was selected.1
-
My guess is that the PM and Chancellor will be self-isolating by the end of the day.
https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/14166877210163445790 -
“It’s a calculated risk”turbotubbs said:
It’s largely outside and with a largely vaccinated public. As a nation we are pursuing a strategy where cases alone don’t matter, it’s just the impact on healthcare and death. It’s a calculated risk, with support from some, but not all, scientists. As silverstone themselves say, it only services by running events like this.StuartDickson said:140,000 expected at the superspreader event at Silverstone. HMG has lost the plot.
Problem is The Clown can’t do sums.
1 -
Compared to World War 1, World War 2, the Thirty Years War, Spanish Flu or Black Death this is nothing in terms of devastation causedLeon said:
Er, yeahDavidL said:
There are times @Leon when you come across as a bit of a drama queen. You know that, right?Leon said:
Was it like this at the end of the Roman Empire?DavidL said:
It is a complete failure to see the big picture that troubles me. We obsessively self flagellate ourselves about how quickly we can convert to electric vehicles here and what we can do to reduce our 1% of carbon emissions and yet stand by as the lungs of the planet in the Amazon switch from being a carbon sink to a carbon producer. The money we spend trying to reduce our miniscule contribution could do so much more good elsewhere but so many environmentalists are really obsessed with bullying and control and their moral superiority here that the argument is not even made.Leon said:
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?
Until we bring some proper science to this and focus on what actually matters and what actually works rather than do goodery we will sink ever deeper into the mire.
That era was roiled by plagues, as well
The scale of dysfunction, decay and dissent feels unprecedented
I dunno. I wasn’t really aware of the 60s, maybe that felt as feverish as this. But the 60s were also a period of hope. People were rebelling to make the world better, however naively
Almost everywhere life seems to be getting worse. I mean, they’ve closed the fucking Atlantic bar at Sheekeys
I see the Tiber foaming with much blood
However this one of the few occasions when drama-queening is surely justified. We are in the middle of a global plague, which seems to be peaking as power shifts from the democratic west to the autocratic east, as our societies are riven with racial conflict, and as potentially calamitous climate change really says Hello
And the number of decent fish restaurants in London has halved. HALVED!!!0 -
Who does this assessment, I wonder? Lol, honestly.Scott_xP said:There are 2 "pilot" schemes...
Housing Sec Robert Jenrick says it's very important for people to self-isolate if they are contacted by Test and Trace.
But the PM & Chancellor won't have to because they'll be taking part in a daily testing pilot #Phillips
The PM & Chancellor are able to take part in this daily testing pilot because Downing Street is one of a variety of selected organisations included in the scheme & has an asymptomatic testing site. Eligibility for the pilot is assessed on a case by case basis.
This trial is running in conjunction with the public scheme (👇) & is for workplaces with a testing site. The reference to people selected at "random" applies to the public study. Eligibility for the workplace study is assessed on a case by case basis.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-launch-40000-person-daily-contact-testing-study https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/14166654264199864372 -
Madeira does have its own governor.HYUFD said:
Portugal does not even have devolutionCarnyx said:
Of course, some people find the concept of devolution inherently invalid.Foxy said:
Why not? We had a different isolation policy from the Balearics to mainland Spain until a few days ago. Ditto Madeira and mainland Portugal.HYUFD said:
You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same countryalex_ said:
Your point being?HYUFD said:
Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent countryalex_ said:Tremendous work by the Govt and it’s scientists...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/18/covid-cases-are-up-6000-miles-from-paris-france-baffled-by-uk-quarantine-change0 -
Another day when the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome.
It seems he wanted to be an MP for all the right reasons, but can he really be happy with BoZo screwing it up so badly, so consistently, so relentlessly?
David Cameron knew some people found it hard to vote Conservative, and wanted to make it easier for them. Boris Johnson and Priti Patel are making it harder again. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/week-conservatives-took-england-football-21067271?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar0 -
Michael Foot was a decent, doddery old intellectual fool. Heffer's was the face of British-Soviet evil. Corbyn was just a less physically vomit-inducing version of Heffer.HYUFD said:
Even Corbyn never managed to get as close to putting Labour in third place as Foot and Heffer did in 1983, Jenkins' SDP on 25% was just 2% behind Foot's Labour on 27%Mexicanpete said:
As someone somewhat sympathetic to the Labour cause, I only have to picture in my mind's eye the angry, ruddy face of the late Eric Heffer to remind me what irrational, incompetent, useless, nasty-party Labour looks like.DougSeal said:
Let’s end the infighting once and for all with a last round of infightingRochdalePioneers said:
We're talking about the same people. A core of the hard left stayed aboard after the Kinnock purges, and when they took over the party in 2015 opened the door wide open to the lunatics. The problem now is how you separate the two. How do you remove the anti-semites and not Corbyn? How do you remove the revolutionary marxists and not MPs like John McDonnell who spend all their time associating with them?Northern_Al said:
Corbyn has been a Labour Party member for ever. All through the Blair years, he sat on the backbenches happily dividing his time between his allotment and attending demos on every left-wing cause. The PLP has always had people like him - not a problem, just as the Tory PLP has some 'eccentrics' that they tolerate.RochdalePioneers said:
Absolutely - and isn't it time to end the fight? The loony left actively want to remain in self-righteous opposition. They are repulsive to normal voters and bring Labour into disrepute.DougSeal said:
Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether you are right (you may well be) your post nevertheless demonstrates the problem I’m identifying.RochdalePioneers said:
Look at the first of Starmer's here to Hear sessions in Blackpool. Corbyn and the hard left brought up as why people don't vote Labour any more.DougSeal said:
I keep banging on about this but it’s because we who oppose them hate each other as much (or almost as much) as the Tories. Which is why Starmer’s major battle this week will be within his own party. Again.Gardenwalker said:Superb trolling by @rcs1000 upthread.
Hard to rate administrations, but weirdly Boris’s does feel like Brown’s or Major’s in terms of wheels falling off.
Weird because the polls don’t show this.
He needs to kill off the lunatics. Expel them. Have the anti-semites and the revolutionary marxists expelled. Its not like they are going to take voters with them. The problem for Labour is that serkeir is frit. Had the chance to get this done by shitcanning Corbyn and blew it.
The solution is nuke them. A one-off mass expulsion of the hard left who splinter off into a myriad of factions. Labour go back to talking to the mass of centre ground voters, don't look crazy any more, start to gain support.
What Starmer is focusing on is groups who are 'entryists' for want of a better name. People who, unlike Corbyn, have no Labour Party history, but were more likely to have been involved in the SWP or other Trotskyite groups in the past, and have tried to hijack the Labour Party, particularly in some CLPs.
Starmer is getting it right. He needs to purge the entryists, not the Labour left.
Perhaps the greatest shame was that the SDP ultimately failed and we retain elements within the Labour Party who are steeped in Union-Baron corruption and of red flags flying over Downing Street. See, it isn't just Johnson who loves a flag!1 -
That’s for the Scottish people to decide, not a Tory councillor in southern Englandshire.HYUFD said:
He also realises there will never be an independent Scotland with the blessed NicolaOldKingCole said:
Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!franklyn said:Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
1 -
"Man gets ‘racial hatred’ police record - for whistling the Bob The Builder theme tune at his neighbour
Officers in Bedfordshire recorded the incident as a non-crime hate incident
Few other details about the ‘crime’ are known but it will remain on file for years
Campaigners call for the ‘Orwellian’ police guidelines for hate to be scrapped"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9798849/Man-gets-racial-hatred-police-record-whistling-Bob-Builder-theme-tune.html0 -
Thank god for small mercies.FrancisUrquhart said:Boris Johnson cancelled plans for a Churchillian launch of Freedom Day after No 10 became alarmed by the surge in the number of infections, The Mail on Sunday has learned.
Officials had discussed marking the lifting of Covid restrictions with a rousing speech by the Prime Minister at an historic venue associated with the wartime leader – until scientific advisers took fright at the recent climb in cases.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9798757/Boris-Johnson-cancels-plans-Churchillian-Freedom-Day-launch.html1 -
Apparently that question has been asked, but no answer thus far...NickPalmer said:Who does this assessment, I wonder? Lol, honestly.
0 -
Jennifer Williams
@JenWilliamsMEN
·
48m
I’ve figured it out. The UK government is participating in a not-governing pilot, for which it was randomly selected out of 1 govts who applied.
1 -
It’s really not saying that. It’s saying that the black crony capitalism espoused by the ANC, and ideologically supported by early versions of CRT, is economically catastrophic. Ironically, as others on PB have noted, it has left racial inequality in SA just as bad as it ever was, but with added and bloody violence (57 murders A DAY), meaning those who can escape are escapingDavidL said:
And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.Foxy said:
Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.Leon said:
It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worseDougSeal said:
There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.Leon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
Today is Mandela day. The country that great man tried to birth is an abortion0 -
Tune into GBNews now for the full story.Andy_JS said:"Man gets ‘racial hatred’ police record - for whistling the Bob The Builder theme tune at his neighbour
Officers in Bedfordshire recorded the incident as a non-crime hate incident
Few other details about the ‘crime’ are known but it will remain on file for years
Campaigners call for the ‘Orwellian’ police guidelines for hate to be scrapped"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9798849/Man-gets-racial-hatred-police-record-whistling-Bob-Builder-theme-tune.html0 -
Indeed. The real pilot program here is testing what they can get away with. https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/14166877210163445791
-
This attitude is a recipe for the entire world getting nothing done because you can always make a reasonably convincing argument that someone else is worse, or the response would be more cost-effective if someone else did it, or that someone else bears more responsibility and *deserves* to pay more of the cost. On the Brazilian version of pb someone will be equally persuasively arguing that the developed countries are emitting more per head, have more money to deal with it, developed their own economies without regard to the environment and Brazil shouldn't have to worry about what they do with their forest until the British and the other developed countries clean up their act.DavidL said:
It is a complete failure to see the big picture that troubles me. We obsessively self flagellate ourselves about how quickly we can convert to electric vehicles here and what we can do to reduce our 1% of carbon emissions and yet stand by as the lungs of the planet in the Amazon switch from being a carbon sink to a carbon producer. The money we spend trying to reduce our miniscule contribution could do so much more good elsewhere but so many environmentalists are really obsessed with bullying and control and their moral superiority here that the argument is not even made.Leon said:
Ominous signs of state failure around the world. Cuba, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Myanmar. Meanwhile, climate change suddenly feels very real, and predictions the world will collapse quite soon seem to be coming trueHYUFD said:
Though South Africa is also riven by tribal conflict between the pro Zuma Zulus and pro Ramaphosa Xhosas within the ANC across most of the country apart from Western Cape which is the only South African province not controlled by the ANCLeon said:An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa
https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/
This is why CRT is do dangerous
‘If you were wondering, society will collapse in 2040.
VICE: MIT Predicted in 1972 That Society Will Collapse This Century. New Research Shows We're on Schedule.
vice.com/en/article/z3x…’
https://twitter.com/power2control/status/1415336773673181188?s=21
Hyperbole aside, this is easily the most dangerous, menacing moment for humanity in my lifetime. The worst since 1945, the worst in peacetime for many thousands of years?
Until we bring some proper science to this and focus on what actually matters and what actually works rather than do goodery we will sink ever deeper into the mire.
The reality is that there are countries, and the ability to affect what people in other countries do is limited, so the only way to make progress is if everyone does what they can to reduce their own respective 1%.2
This discussion has been closed.