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The front pages not good for ministers on the eve of what was designated Freedom day – politicalbett

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Comments

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,981
    edited July 2021
    Johnson has U-turned on self-isolating. Makes Jenrick look silly, who'd just defended the pilot scheme.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,673
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism



  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,248
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    There is no u-turn
    The PM announced openly that he would gladly self-isolate
    The pilot scheme suggested is a fiction put out by lockdown forever remoaners

    Didn’t Gove use it?

    Seems like Sunak has taken control and dragged the others into a more sensible position. 🙂
    The most sensible position would have have been to realise in advance that the arbitrary 16th August date for ending self isolation for vaccinated inviduals was ridiculous, causing huge damage to hard pressed businesses up and down the country, and have introduced it from 19th July. Hell, they could have even crafted it with a requirement to self test!
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    alex_ said:

    gealbhan said:

    There is no u-turn
    The PM announced openly that he would gladly self-isolate
    The pilot scheme suggested is a fiction put out by lockdown forever remoaners

    Didn’t Gove use it?

    Seems like Sunak has taken control and dragged the others into a more sensible position. 🙂
    The most sensible position would have have been to realise in advance that the arbitrary 16th August date for ending self isolation for vaccinated inviduals was ridiculous, causing huge damage to hard pressed businesses up and down the country, and have introduced it from 19th July. Hell, they could have even crafted it with a requirement to self test!
    Have they explained why they didn’t?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,403

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism
    Fire up the ‘taken out of context’ klaxon.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,112
    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20
  • glwglw Posts: 8,319

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:
    Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent country
    Your point being?
    You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same country
    Is the Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, who does not understand that this bit of France is not the part across the Channel, any relation to the former Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab, who had not realised the importance of the Dover-Calais route? And does either of them own a sodding map?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188
    The Scottish government is doing the same thing, and they haven't tried the usual "our hands are tied by Westminster's action" so they seem to have drawn the same conclusion about the risk of Beta in France spreading to the UK.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,248
    edited July 2021
    gealbhan said:

    alex_ said:

    gealbhan said:

    There is no u-turn
    The PM announced openly that he would gladly self-isolate
    The pilot scheme suggested is a fiction put out by lockdown forever remoaners

    Didn’t Gove use it?

    Seems like Sunak has taken control and dragged the others into a more sensible position. 🙂
    The most sensible position would have have been to realise in advance that the arbitrary 16th August date for ending self isolation for vaccinated inviduals was ridiculous, causing huge damage to hard pressed businesses up and down the country, and have introduced it from 19th July. Hell, they could have even crafted it with a requirement to self test!
    Have they explained why they didn’t?
    No (or i don't think so), but i assume it was based on "fairness" - not giving vaccinated people privileges when many hadn't even been offered the vaccine yet. But even by 16th August many won't have had their second dose...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,599
    edited July 2021
    It seems to me there are three lines governments could take on the app and quarantine. Any of them is viable but the current limbo isn't.
    1. Vaccines have changed the landscape, so we no longer need the app or quarantine when a close contact tests positive *
    2. We still need to control the spread of the epidemic, which means you should continue to use the app and quarantine when a close contact tests positive
    3. We request you keep the app active as this provides useful information about the spread of the virus, but we don't require you to quarantine any more
    *Spin for "We're not bothering to control the epidemic any more and are hoping the vaccines stop too many being hospitalised and killed". But this is OK
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,350

    Executing a u-turn more quickly, rather than waiting a couple of days to do so, does indicate an ability to learn from past mistakes, and is more than I had come to expect from this government.

    They've managed to execute this u-turn quickly enough that most people won't have noticed.

    Given that sea anemones have personalities and can learn on a rather quicker timescale ...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,248
    edited July 2021
    glw said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:
    Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent country
    Your point being?
    You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same country
    Is the Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, who does not understand that this bit of France is not the part across the Channel, any relation to the former Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab, who had not realised the importance of the Dover-Calais route? And does either of them own a sodding map?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188
    The Scottish government is doing the same thing, and they haven't tried the usual "our hands are tied by Westminster's action" so they seem to have drawn the same conclusion about the risk of Beta in France spreading to the UK.
    I'm guessing it's a cock up by the scientists not understanding the data they are relying upon from foreign governments. It wouldn't be the first time. Much of it would probably be avoided if they actually consulted with said foreign governments in advance of taking the decisions.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,673

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism
    Fire up the ‘taken out of context’ klaxon.

    Surely he was just joking.


  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,248
    FF43 said:

    It seems to me there are three lines governments could take on the app and quarantine. Any of them is viable but the current limbo isn't.

    1. Vaccines have changed the landscape, so we no longer need the app or quarantine when a close contact tests positive *
    2. We still need to control the spread of the epidemic, which means you should continue to use the app and quarantine when a close contact tests positive
    3. We request you keep the app active as this provides useful information about the spread of the virus, but we don't require you to quarantine any more
    *Spin for "We're not bothering to control the epidemic any more and are hoping the vaccines stop too many being hospitalised and killed". But this is OK
    4. We would ask you to continue using the app, but provide the option of daily testing as an alternative (or even replacement) for quarantine.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    alex_ said:

    gealbhan said:

    alex_ said:

    gealbhan said:

    There is no u-turn
    The PM announced openly that he would gladly self-isolate
    The pilot scheme suggested is a fiction put out by lockdown forever remoaners

    Didn’t Gove use it?

    Seems like Sunak has taken control and dragged the others into a more sensible position. 🙂
    The most sensible position would have have been to realise in advance that the arbitrary 16th August date for ending self isolation for vaccinated inviduals was ridiculous, causing huge damage to hard pressed businesses up and down the country, and have introduced it from 19th July. Hell, they could have even crafted it with a requirement to self test!
    Have they explained why they didn’t?
    No (or i don't think so), but i assume it was based on "fairness" - not giving vaccinated people privileges when many hadn't even been offered the vaccine yet. But even by 16th August many won't have had their second dose...
    It’s not much of a Freedom Day with pingdemic going on. Also it’s not lost on any of us, government is no longer saying we must mask up on public transport, but metro mayors are telling us to instead. That’s not a great change.

    Rule of 6 is going.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,846
    Carnyx said:

    Executing a u-turn more quickly, rather than waiting a couple of days to do so, does indicate an ability to learn from past mistakes, and is more than I had come to expect from this government.

    They've managed to execute this u-turn quickly enough that most people won't have noticed.

    Given that sea anemones have personalities and can learn on a rather quicker timescale ...
    It is a low bar, but when so many low bars have previously not been cleared it is worth noting.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,248
    edited July 2021

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    There's a reason why historically key advisers to ministers were drawn from fellow parliamentarians. Or if not, those with proven good political antenna whilst maintaining a close ear and contact with the House of Commons tea rooms... Then again there is some doubt about the political antennae of many MPs these days. There's a hell of a lot of "professional politicians" who don't actually appear to be very good at their main supposed skill.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,214
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    franklyn said:

    Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”

    Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!
    He also realises there will never be an independent Scotland with the blessed Nicola
    That’s for the Scottish people to decide, not a Tory councillor in southern Englandshire.
    HYUFD Bingo!!!!

    I claim my Henry VIII quarter groat.
    What has become one of the most boring aspects of this site is the call and response monotony that results from HYUFD’s attitude to Scottish Independence.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 70,194
    Great morning for Sunak tbh. Outplayed Boris completely
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 14,139

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    Eh? This was a decision by No 10 and the Chancellor themselves, there is no way someone junior to them chose what they would do.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,912
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.
    It is but the old colonial buftons tuftons aren't going to do anything.

    The mindset also exists in the DoID and the Blairite/Cameroon warmongers.

    There's a whole world that needs 'saving'.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,000
    This government’s comms is just incomprehensibly poor. You could take any 16 year old doing media studies GCSE and it would be a step up. I just don’t understand how they can make such consistently poor decisions.

    Boris’s government needs to fall or by the time he’s done, they will be unelectable for a generation. Perhaps the 1922 are just waiting for the covid emergency phase to pass?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,755

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    How long before #ClassicDom points the finger at Carrie?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,912

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    Eh? This was a decision by No 10 and the Chancellor themselves, there is no way someone junior to them chose what they would do.
    People often chose to get 'advice' which they want to hear.

    If things go well they take the credit, if badly they blame the 'advice'.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,113
    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What if this U-turn undermines the the integrity of the very important scientific research programme that the prime minister and chancellor were taking part in.
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1416695195584827393

    It’s a gloriously sunny day and you’re spending it spamming crap From twitter onto the site.

    😂👍😂😂😂

    I’m drilling holes into a brick to hang a washing line and that’s more interesting than your contributions
    I actually laughed out loud at the tweet Scott posted there.

    To be fair, Scott’s tweets are objectively more interesting than your DIY efforts.
    His whole life is finding anything on twitter that might be vaguely anti Boris or Brexit. It's a sad existence.
    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    Sir Keir Starmer: “This Conservative Government is in chaos. Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak have been busted yet again for thinking the rules that we are all following don’t apply to them.” https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1416703577272291330/photo/1
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,214
    glw said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:
    Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent country
    Your point being?
    You cannot just require quarantine from Reunion, you have to require it for all of France as they are all the same country
    Is the Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, who does not understand that this bit of France is not the part across the Channel, any relation to the former Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab, who had not realised the importance of the Dover-Calais route? And does either of them own a sodding map?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46142188
    The Scottish government is doing the same thing, and they haven't tried the usual "our hands are tied by Westminster's action" so they seem to have drawn the same conclusion about the risk of Beta in France spreading to the UK.
    I suspect some scientific bods got given the aggregate figure for France (including Reunion) and jumped to a conclusion
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,113
    One of the interesting things about this affair is that again, PB is prescient.

    There was speculation on here last night that Boris would try to dodge isolation....and lo and behold...
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,184

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.
    It is but the old colonial buftons tuftons aren't going to do anything.

    The mindset also exists in the DoID and the Blairite/Cameroon warmongers.

    There's a whole world that needs 'saving'.
    Indeed. The "White Saviour" mindset is equally common amongst both progressives and right-wingers. It may manifest itself in different ways but it's end game is the same: Black people need to be told what to do.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024

    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.

    For those who are interested in breaking news, and might seek to benefit from a movement in odds as a result, Twitter is invaluable.

    Those that can't see it lose out (in every sense...)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550

    One of the interesting things about this affair is that again, PB is prescient.

    There was speculation on here last night that Boris would try to dodge isolation....and lo and behold...

    Seems he dodged long enough to make a dash to Chequers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    Sir Keir Starmer: "The Conservatives fixed the rules to benefit themselves, and only backtracked when they were found out. They robbed the bank, got caught and have now offered to give the money back.”
    https://twitter.com/AlexofBrown/status/1416703566228738051
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    How long before #ClassicDom points the finger at Carrie?
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    Fairly or unfairly, I think this debacle probably represents the final nail for Dan Rosenfield.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,000
    Scott_xP said:

    Sir Keir Starmer: “This Conservative Government is in chaos. Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak have been busted yet again for thinking the rules that we are all following don’t apply to them.” https://twitter.com/SophiaSleigh/status/1416703577272291330/photo/1

    He is right. I voted for an independent at the locals but will be full pelt for the Lib Dems at the next Generals if Johnson is still in charge.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 13,599
    alex_ said:

    FF43 said:

    It seems to me there are three lines governments could take on the app and quarantine. Any of them is viable but the current limbo isn't.

    1. Vaccines have changed the landscape, so we no longer need the app or quarantine when a close contact tests positive *
    2. We still need to control the spread of the epidemic, which means you should continue to use the app and quarantine when a close contact tests positive
    3. We request you keep the app active as this provides useful information about the spread of the virus, but we don't require you to quarantine any more
    *Spin for "We're not bothering to control the epidemic any more and are hoping the vaccines stop too many being hospitalised and killed". But this is OK
    4. We would ask you to continue using the app, but provide the option of daily testing as an alternative (or even replacement) for quarantine.
    OK, too. Not OK, for several reasons, is passively encouraging people to delete the app to avoid a nominal responsibility. Governments should be clear about what they think those responsibilities are, if any, and set policy for those responsibilities.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550
    Pulpstar said:

    Great morning for Sunak tbh. Outplayed Boris completely

    I must have missed something?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 7,214
    Scott_xP said:

    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.

    For those who are interested in breaking news, and might seek to benefit from a movement in odds as a result, Twitter is invaluable.

    Those that can't see it lose out (in every sense...)
    Yeah, but everyone can see Twitter, that’s the point of it. Doing little else but cross posting (and I fully accept I do my fair share) just makes you a bit of a dull monothematic contributor. They’re not your views, they’re someone else’s, so why engage with you over them?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    DougSeal said:

    Yeah, but everyone can see Twitter, that’s the point of it.

    But not everyone does.

    If you look upthread you can see the first post on this site confirming the u-turn.

    By me.

    From a Tweet.

    That's the point...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,403

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    Eh? This was a decision by No 10 and the Chancellor themselves, there is no way someone junior to them chose what they would do.
    Absolutely, but that’s no reason not to find someone else on whom to pin the blame. Almost an inevitability with this crew in fact.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550
    Andy_JS said:

    Carnyx said:

    MaxPB said:

    I have to say this is quite possibly the most stupid decision I've seen this government make. That's some going as well given what we've experienced for the last 18 months.

    I do wonder whether Rishi will break cover and voluntarily isolate. A slick post on social media with Rishi branding rather than government branding too.

    RS Is - just announced on Twatter.

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1416693412674297857
    First move in the next Tory leadership contest, maybe...

    Adam Brooks
    @EssexPR
    ·
    3m
    Replying to
    @RishiSunak
    Whoever advised you otherwise this morning has utterly destroyed what respect was left for this Government.
    I suggest you and the Cabinet summon your advisors and demand to know why they keep making fun of the people.

    There is zero chance of any compliance going forward.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,146
    Double vaccinated Gadfly Jnr has been monitoring his progress using LFD tests...



  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,886
    Hypocrisy, chaos and incompetence. Impressive.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,006
    FREEDUMB DAY

    :lol::lol::lol:
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,846
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.

    For those who are interested in breaking news, and might seek to benefit from a movement in odds as a result, Twitter is invaluable.

    Those that can't see it lose out (in every sense...)
    Yeah, but everyone can see Twitter, that’s the point of it. Doing little else but cross posting (and I fully accept I do my fair share) just makes you a bit of a dull monothematic contributor. They’re not your views, they’re someone else’s, so why engage with you over them?
    If Scott_xP is willing to work as an unpaid curator of anti-Boris tweets then I am willing to take advantage of that and not have to wade through the morass of twitter myself.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,755

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    How long before #ClassicDom points the finger at Carrie?
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    Fairly or unfairly, I think this debacle probably represents the final nail for Dan Rosenfield.
    Tbh this smacks of a decision taken a long time ago, possibly to exempt Michael Gove, rather than one to which any thought was given in the last two days.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550
    Rob Powell
    @robpowellnews
    ·
    31m
    Tory backbencher - "If I had something to quit, I’d have quit it".
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    How long before #ClassicDom points the finger at Carrie?
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    Fairly or unfairly, I think this debacle probably represents the final nail for Dan Rosenfield.
    Tbh this smacks of a decision taken a long time ago, possibly to exempt Michael Gove, rather than one to which any thought was given in the last two days.
    Constantly making stuff up to cover their sorry arses must be exhausting.
  • mwjfrome17mwjfrome17 Posts: 135
    Would not be at all surprised if this U-turn was not forced on them by Whitty and Vallance.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,000

    Rob Powell
    @robpowellnews
    ·
    31m
    Tory backbencher - "If I had something to quit, I’d have quit it".

    Well he does doesn’t he. His public confidence in the PM? The party whip? But that would be personal sacrifice for principle and we can’t be having that now can we.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,680
    DougSeal said:

    Amy Zebra
    @skepticalzebra
    “I think the mark of being truly liberal is if you started this pandemic disliking Cummings, and every single thing he's done since then has made you dislike him even more.

    There is no redemption arc here. Car crash of a man.”

    I must be the most liberal man on this board.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550
    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.

    For those who are interested in breaking news, and might seek to benefit from a movement in odds as a result, Twitter is invaluable.

    Those that can't see it lose out (in every sense...)
    Yeah, but everyone can see Twitter, that’s the point of it. Doing little else but cross posting (and I fully accept I do my fair share) just makes you a bit of a dull monothematic contributor. They’re not your views, they’re someone else’s, so why engage with you over them?
    I find the way that people on PB post on twitter stuff they think is relevant to the moving story of the day is really useful. It can be a quick summary of where things are.

    I do a fair amount of posting on twitter links.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,912
    FF43 said:

    alex_ said:

    FF43 said:

    It seems to me there are three lines governments could take on the app and quarantine. Any of them is viable but the current limbo isn't.

    1. Vaccines have changed the landscape, so we no longer need the app or quarantine when a close contact tests positive *
    2. We still need to control the spread of the epidemic, which means you should continue to use the app and quarantine when a close contact tests positive
    3. We request you keep the app active as this provides useful information about the spread of the virus, but we don't require you to quarantine any more
    *Spin for "We're not bothering to control the epidemic any more and are hoping the vaccines stop too many being hospitalised and killed". But this is OK
    4. We would ask you to continue using the app, but provide the option of daily testing as an alternative (or even replacement) for quarantine.
    OK, too. Not OK, for several reasons, is passively encouraging people to delete the app to avoid a nominal responsibility. Governments should be clear about what they think those responsibilities are, if any, and set policy for those responsibilities.
    Complacent lethargy is the defining attribute of the government.

    The world in general and covid in particular changes and a previous policy can become obsolete or unnecessary or counter productive.

    It requires 'project management' to see if policies continue to be suitable as the situation changes.

    And that requires some detailed work whereas politicians would prefer to focus on the next issue and the next flashy announcement.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,403
    Look away anyone who doesn’t like posting of tweets

    https://twitter.com/alistairbarrie/status/1416698217182502912?s=21
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,755

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    How long before #ClassicDom points the finger at Carrie?
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    Fairly or unfairly, I think this debacle probably represents the final nail for Dan Rosenfield.
    Tbh this smacks of a decision taken a long time ago, possibly to exempt Michael Gove, rather than one to which any thought was given in the last two days.
    Constantly making stuff up to cover their sorry arses must be exhausting.
    That's the point, they probably didn't. Most likely, signing up the whole government to the workplace scheme seemed like a good wheeze to allow Michael Gove to carry on as he liked, with no-one considering what would happen if The Saj ensnared the two most senior members of the government, and what it would look like. It's the corollary of hard cases make bad law.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Too bloody right - what were they thinking

    Coronavirus latest news: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak reverse decision to not self-isolate after getting 'pinged'

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    Gadfly said:

    Double vaccinated Gadfly Jnr has been monitoring his progress using LFD tests...



    Do we take that he was actually positive for covid or that it was really a false positive as it turned negative so quickly?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,680
    Floater said:

    Too bloody right - what were they thinking

    Coronavirus latest news: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak reverse decision to not self-isolate after getting 'pinged'

    There is an incredibly generous assumption in that post, which I would suggest we need some evidence for.

    What leads you to believe that they can think?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 34,890

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism



    Have you seen what's happening in South Africa?

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What if this U-turn undermines the the integrity of the very important scientific research programme that the prime minister and chancellor were taking part in.
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1416695195584827393

    It’s a gloriously sunny day and you’re spending it spamming crap From twitter onto the site.

    😂👍😂😂😂

    I’m drilling holes into a brick to hang a washing line and that’s more interesting than your contributions
    I actually laughed out loud at the tweet Scott posted there.

    To be fair, Scott’s tweets are objectively more interesting than your DIY efforts.
    His whole life is finding anything on twitter that might be vaguely anti Boris or Brexit. It's a sad existence.
    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.
    Maybe, I guess the issue is that twitter isn't the nation so there is limited value in it knowing what the 18% are talking about.

    This one was gold though, the switchover to posting about why Boris is a c*** for dodging isolation to then yeah but he's also a c*** for not dodging it was excellent value. The mental gymnastics were worth the rest of the twatspam.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,113

    I honestly think this will now spiral completely out of this government's control now.

    It is clear there is already mounting anger over the pingdemic.

    Today's news will just blow that completely out of the water.

    No one is going to listen to a bloody word they say now.

    Awkward observation 10,057 ...

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/worrying-me-quite-bit-mrna-vaccine-inventor-shares-viral-thread-showing-covid-surge-most

    Yes, it appears that it suppresses your own immune system for a short time and that could have explained some of the spike in deaths last winter. But it doesn't seem to explain this.

    The media censorship is unprecedented and chilling. Facebook yesterday blocked a debate on the COVID jabs between Prof David Livermore and Prof Peter McCullough at this event ...

    https://www.questioneverything.io/live/

    They transmitted direct as well so only people on Facebook noticed Big Brother, er sorry Mark Zuckerberg, pull the plug.
    Robert Malone did not invent mRNA vaccines. He hasn’t even been involved in primary research for nearly 20 years and when he did, he did contribute towards some preliminary research relevant to genetic vaccines between 20-40 years ago, but he no more invented mRNA vaccines than Galileo invented the Saturn V rocket.

    Apparently he now pushes antacids to treat covid and is popular on the antivax circuit, who immediately swallow his wild claims because they march with their desires.

    The rest is as reliable as that claim.
    P.S. The only large scale study that indicated ivermectin was beneficial against covid turned out to be faked.

    https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/07/16/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-4/

    https://gidmk.medium.com/is-ivermectin-for-covid-19-based-on-fraudulent-research-5cc079278602
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 13,755

    Look away anyone who doesn’t like posting of tweets

    https://twitter.com/alistairbarrie/status/1416698217182502912?s=21

    Learn from the master: @Scott_xP posts (or pastes) the text of a tweet as well as the link to it. That way, even lazy gits like me can judge whether to press the button, and get the gist even if we do not.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,938

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Why does someone who has had Covid and been double jabbed like Boris have to self isolate? Surely this is where we are going wrong. The risk of anyone who has been double jabbed more than 3 weeks ago either being infected or carrying the virus are infinitesimal. I am, without conclusive evidence, of the view that such a person who has also had a fairly serious dose of Covid doing either is non existent.

    We are in danger of losing the benefits of "freedom" by an excess of caution. Wish we had been faster with the vaccinations though.

    Well, he shouldn’t.

    But his own rules say he should.

    As with Cummings, Hancock etc there appears to be one rule for them and a different set for us.

    That’s the other problem with this decision - it feeds the narrative of arrogant selfishness that’s being established. Never a good look for a government.
    No!

    Despite being pinged by the NHS app Sunak and Johnson do not apparantly have to isolate as they have generously and kindly offered themselves up as Guinea pigs in an experiment to see whether the system you decry can be modified quickly. (It must be true, I read it in the Guardian).

    A pair of special and patriotic Superheroes thinking of the nation's welfare over and above their own safety. Nothing whatsoever do do with their own convenience.
    I do apologise for jumping the gun on this fake news. It would appear both Johnson and Sunak have been innocent victims of Guardian lies.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 22,912

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    How long before #ClassicDom points the finger at Carrie?
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    14m
    Fairly or unfairly, I think this debacle probably represents the final nail for Dan Rosenfield.
    Tbh this smacks of a decision taken a long time ago, possibly to exempt Michael Gove, rather than one to which any thought was given in the last two days.
    Though why they wanted to exempt Gove is itself a mystery.

    It comes across as the equivalent of a clever dick stuttering run up penalty kick - might work once or twice but sooner or later leads to big regrets.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,350
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Too bloody right - what were they thinking

    Coronavirus latest news: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak reverse decision to not self-isolate after getting 'pinged'

    There is an incredibly generous assumption in that post, which I would suggest we need some evidence for.

    What leads you to believe that they can think?
    Lobsters can.

    But OK, wrong superphylum.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    franklyn said:

    Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”

    Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!
    He also realises there will never be an independent Scotland with the blessed Nicola
    That’s for the Scottish people to decide, not a Tory councillor in southern Englandshire.
    Actually it is for the UK government to decide under the Scotland Act 1998 and Nicola has meekly but correctly accepted she cannot hold a legal indyref2 without UK government approval or declare UDI
    Source?
  • Sorry the U-turn was so quick I didn't get to see what Philip's defence was and what his U-turn will now be
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What if this U-turn undermines the the integrity of the very important scientific research programme that the prime minister and chancellor were taking part in.
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1416695195584827393

    It’s a gloriously sunny day and you’re spending it spamming crap From twitter onto the site.

    😂👍😂😂😂

    I’m drilling holes into a brick to hang a washing line and that’s more interesting than your contributions
    I actually laughed out loud at the tweet Scott posted there.

    To be fair, Scott’s tweets are objectively more interesting than your DIY efforts.
    His whole life is finding anything on twitter that might be vaguely anti Boris or Brexit. It's a sad existence.
    But it does save the rest of us the bother.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,680
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    Too bloody right - what were they thinking

    Coronavirus latest news: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak reverse decision to not self-isolate after getting 'pinged'

    There is an incredibly generous assumption in that post, which I would suggest we need some evidence for.

    What leads you to believe that they can think?
    Lobsters can.

    But OK, wrong superphylum.
    The PM and the Chancellor are not lobsters.

    Lobsters would be doing a far better job.
  • Who is advising the Government, their judgment is just dreadful, when will the public give up, it is depressing they are still ahead!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,350

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    franklyn said:

    Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”

    Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!
    He also realises there will never be an independent Scotland with the blessed Nicola
    That’s for the Scottish people to decide, not a Tory councillor in southern Englandshire.
    Actually it is for the UK government to decide under the Scotland Act 1998 and Nicola has meekly but correctly accepted she cannot hold a legal indyref2 without UK government approval or declare UDI
    Source?
    I never know whether or not it is worth challenging HYUFD.

    The question that strikes me is this is a political betting website. Yet his persistent creation and repetition of myths even after being challenged - for instance, that only the SNP ('nats') counts when it comes to assessing independence and his persistent refusal to include the Greens - must be distorting the generally accepted understanding.

    In those circumstances the only safe and rational gambling is HYUFD bingo.
  • eekeek Posts: 19,222
    Pulpstar said:

    Great morning for Sunak tbh. Outplayed Boris completely

    Let's be honest though - it's not difficult to be better than Boris
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,938
    Jonathan said:

    Hypocrisy, chaos and incompetence. Impressive.

    Still, remarkably, good enough for a 13 point Tory poll lead. Free money to buy cars and home improvements for voters by incumbent government really works, who'd have though it?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 5,984
    alex_ said:

    I wonder who will get the blame in Number 10 for giving the wrong initial advice to the PM?

    How high would this issue have gone - chief of staff level? Whoever advised the PM on this will likely be criticised for not having a good ear for politics


    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1416698841215250433?s=20

    There's a reason why historically key advisers to ministers were drawn from fellow parliamentarians. Or if not, those with proven good political antenna whilst maintaining a close ear and contact with the House of Commons tea rooms... Then again there is some doubt about the political antennae of many MPs these days. There's a hell of a lot of "professional politicians" who don't actually appear to be very good at their main supposed skill.
    It's also why the style of the 2019 campaign was a mistake. All the thinking about the public was outsourced to focus groups and Twitter mememongers. All the really difficult interviews were ducked.

    An effective election winning tactic, but it's left the PM remarkably out of practice at thinking about the views of the public, anticipating the way that the more far-out decisions will go down and knowing what he can defend/explain.

    So he's rubbish at it. And short of rewiring the Prime Minister's Brain, things like this will keep happening.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,783
    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism



    Have you seen what's happening in South Africa?

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What if this U-turn undermines the the integrity of the very important scientific research programme that the prime minister and chancellor were taking part in.
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1416695195584827393

    It’s a gloriously sunny day and you’re spending it spamming crap From twitter onto the site.

    😂👍😂😂😂

    I’m drilling holes into a brick to hang a washing line and that’s more interesting than your contributions
    I actually laughed out loud at the tweet Scott posted there.

    To be fair, Scott’s tweets are objectively more interesting than your DIY efforts.
    His whole life is finding anything on twitter that might be vaguely anti Boris or Brexit. It's a sad existence.
    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.
    Maybe, I guess the issue is that twitter isn't the nation so there is limited value in it knowing what the 18% are talking about.

    This one was gold though, the switchover to posting about why Boris is a c*** for dodging isolation to then yeah but he's also a c*** for not dodging it was excellent value. The mental gymnastics were worth the rest of the twatspam.
    Don't forget the whole "NHS App doesn't work at all, appalling waste of money chucked at Boris's mates" to "bloody hell, the App works far too well, the whole country is getting pinged, this is a disaster".

    As intellectual gymnastics go it certainly impressed me.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,346
      
  • Boris Johnson, General U-Turn
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    franklyn said:

    Whenever I see a post by Malcolmg, I somehow always think of PG Wodehouse's memorable quote “It has never been hard to tell the difference between a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”

    Malc's quite optimistic really. He believes that there is a possibility of things being better, in an independent Scotland not run by the blessed Nicola!
    He also realises there will never be an independent Scotland with the blessed Nicola
    That’s for the Scottish people to decide, not a Tory councillor in southern Englandshire.
    Actually it is for the UK government to decide under the Scotland Act 1998 and Nicola has meekly but correctly accepted she cannot hold a legal indyref2 without UK government approval or declare UDI
    Source?
    I never know whether or not it is worth challenging HYUFD.

    The question that strikes me is this is a political betting website. Yet his persistent creation and repetition of myths even after being challenged - for instance, that only the SNP ('nats') counts when it comes to assessing independence and his persistent refusal to include the Greens - must be distorting the generally accepted understanding.

    In those circumstances the only safe and rational gambling is HYUFD bingo.
    …” must be distorting the generally accepted understanding.” Nah.

    He likes to think he is a cunning propagandist, but he’s just another doofus sitting in his underpants typing bollocks on an obscure blog.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 4,000
    edited July 2021
    DavidL said:

    Wonderful, just wonderful to see @DavidL and @Charles come out in defence of Boris the ping-dodger.

    Brings a tear to the eye.

    I am not defending him. I think the rules which he is dodging should not apply to anyone who has been double vaxxed for more than 3 weeks. The fact that he has contrived this absurd excuse so he can continue running the country just shows how silly these rules are. Boris is a risk in all kinds of ways. Infecting people with Covid is not one of them.
    There’s hundreds of thousands of people pointlessly isolating despite being double jabbed and unlike Johnson, in many cases having had no real exposure to an infected person.

    Boris Johnson and his government appear to have developed a severe case of bunker syndrome, where they fail to appreciate the futility and detrimental impact of much of their policy platform. All the while they do what they want, treating us with total contempt. They’re as venal and corrupt as Xi’s China but as inept at running an effective government as an African junta. A potent combination.

    The only thing they seem to be good at is identifying the right bribes to extend to a big enough section of the voting base to stay in power. And are helped in this by quite appallingly poor quality Opposition.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 13,113
    edited July 2021
    DavidL said:

    Wonderful, just wonderful to see @DavidL and @Charles come out in defence of Boris the ping-dodger.

    Brings a tear to the eye.

    I am not defending him. I think the rules which he is dodging should not apply to anyone who has been double vaxxed for more than 3 weeks. The fact that he has contrived this absurd excuse so he can continue running the country just shows how silly these rules are. Boris is a risk in all kinds of ways. Infecting people with Covid is not one of them.
    Now the thing is, I agree with you on the practicality of the measures themselves.

    But I immediately saw Boris’s “can’t isolate, won’t isolate” as offensive cakeism, whereas you ran with “what a wonderful govt, at least 7/10”.

    Your compass is almost as bent as Boris’s.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 16,981
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.
    The problem is this: if South Africa had been a great success since 1994, it would have been because black people had done things right. If it isn't a success, it's the fault of white people and their legacy.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024

    It's also why the style of the 2019 campaign was a mistake. All the thinking about the public was outsourced to focus groups and Twitter mememongers. All the really difficult interviews were ducked.

    An effective election winning tactic, but it's left the PM remarkably out of practice at thinking about the views of the public, anticipating the way that the more far-out decisions will go down and knowing what he can defend/explain.

    So he's rubbish at it. And short of rewiring the Prime Minister's Brain, things like this will keep happening.

    That's why Cameron continued his public meetings after the election
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,814

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Colour me shocked. PM and chancellor have been pinged (assume by contact with the health secretary). Guess what, they will be partaking of the trial that means they don’t have to isolate...
    I will be deleting the ap today. This is the last straw. Feckers

    I deleted it days ago as did my family and our WhatsApp group

    To be honest Boris and HMG deserve all the criticism they are receiving

    Their PR is worse than even Ratner
    If - as I expect - this turns into a PR disaster it also won’t look good for your favourite Sunak.

    Pile on Hunt to be next leader.
    You could be right, but right now any one of Rishi, Hunt, Raab, or Truss would be a huge improvement

    I would just say the one thing that may save then ironically is the good sense of the vast majority of the public who will not cast off all care tomorrow, but practice their own common sense

    Indeed my son and his partner, their parents and our family are going into self imposed lockdown from tomorrow, to do our best to keep covid away from having a serious consequence for their wedding on the 31st July

    I expect a slump in their poll ratings for Boris and HMG which would be entirely self inflicted
    Dear God, what a line up of absoute useless donkeys. If that is the best the Tories have even useless Starmer can have hope.
    Good morning Malc

    Lovely day here and I assume the same in Ayrshire

    To be honest it is far to nice a day to get 'ravelled up' over politics so a bit of gardening then to watch the open for me today
    Morning G, bit overcast today here, not sure it will burn off , I spent yesterday in the garden. For sure politics across the UK is pretty dire these days.
    I ma happy to see more newspapers starting to focus on the missing £600K referendum fund that the SNP have spent, Murrell's under pressure and rightly so, they really are the Scottish Ceaușescu's.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 48,680
    edited July 2021
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism



    Have you seen what's happening in South Africa?

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    What if this U-turn undermines the the integrity of the very important scientific research programme that the prime minister and chancellor were taking part in.
    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/1416695195584827393

    It’s a gloriously sunny day and you’re spending it spamming crap From twitter onto the site.

    😂👍😂😂😂

    I’m drilling holes into a brick to hang a washing line and that’s more interesting than your contributions
    I actually laughed out loud at the tweet Scott posted there.

    To be fair, Scott’s tweets are objectively more interesting than your DIY efforts.
    His whole life is finding anything on twitter that might be vaguely anti Boris or Brexit. It's a sad existence.
    This is PB; some sadness is baked in.
    I find Scott’s tweeting a valuable service.

    But perhaps I am the target audience.
    Maybe, I guess the issue is that twitter isn't the nation so there is limited value in it knowing what the 18% are talking about.

    This one was gold though, the switchover to posting about why Boris is a c*** for dodging isolation to then yeah but he's also a c*** for not dodging it was excellent value. The mental gymnastics were worth the rest of the twatspam.
    Don't forget the whole "NHS App doesn't work at all, appalling waste of money chucked at Boris's mates" to "bloody hell, the App works far too well, the whole country is getting pinged, this is a disaster".

    As intellectual gymnastics go it certainly impressed me.
    If your dog’s lead was either so loose it always slipped off or so tight Woofit couldn’t breathe properly, you would consider it a failure on both settings.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550
    edited July 2021
    Just been outside for for first time since 8 o'clock this morning. Jeez, the heat is brutal.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 2,389

    Who is advising the Government, their judgment is just dreadful, when will the public give up, it is depressing they are still ahead!

    They're still ahead because they are pitted in an ugly contest against Labour. It doesn't matter how bad one lot are if a sufficient number of voters are afraid that the alternative would be even worse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,938

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    An absolutely brutal analysis. How an early prototype of Critical Race Theory has destroyed South Africa

    https://www.revolver.news/2021/07/south-africa-riots-looting-critical-race-theory/

    This is why CRT is do dangerous

    There was a pretty radical racial policy in operation there until the early 90s as I recall. Funny how this article doesn’t mention its legacy as a potential cause.
    It’s 27 years since apartheid. The article mentions it plenty. 27 years is enough time to make life better. Life in SAis getting worse
    Having been to RSA a number of times, though last time was about a decade ago, it is remarkable how little the end of Apartheid made to the peoples of the country. The whites still live in elegant suburbs and the blacks in shanty towns. There are small numbers of black middle class, but for many the end of Apartheid meant little change to their lives.
    And that fairly appalling piece by Revolver is trying to support that situation by insisting that white economic dominance is the price of a successful economy and policies that seek to change that are doomed to failure, all with a deeply undemocratic American slant. Ugh.
    Yes, you must watch for that. The brainworm wriggling in the heads of people who make great play of how shit things are in SA is often, "Blacks just can't run things. They're wild and clueless. They need a strong guiding hand. Can't say that, of course, not these days, you'd be cancelled, but it's true."

    It's not necessarily this going on, I should stress, but be in no doubt that it very often is. See also attitudes to the Palestinians (vs the Israelis). Similar sentiments and (by and large) the same people holding them.

    The colonial mindset. Still there. Still very much there.

    Boris Johnson literally wrote it a few years back ...

    "The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty."

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-boris-archive-africa-is-a-mess-but-we-can-t-blame-colonialism



    Haven't we already missed that boat, with China quietly taking on the mantle of colonial master in former British Empire Africa? And it all happened whilst the Conservative Party were engaged in a culture war with the EU and woke voters.

    Johnson's rhetoric may feel of a different time for some of us as former colonialists, but not the Chinese.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 8,721
    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson has U-turned on self-isolating. Makes Jenrick look silly, who'd just defended the pilot scheme.

    In fairness, making Jenrick look silly is hardly difficult.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 71,216
    Neil Etheridge: Birmingham City keeper home after Covid treatment - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57876698

    31 year old professional sportsman still ended up in hospital.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,403
    Identify that quote

    "Probably the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, but the opening battles of all subsequent wars have been lost there. One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 15,938
    Pulpstar said:

    Great morning for Sunak tbh. Outplayed Boris completely

    Et tu, Brute?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 42,783

    DavidL said:

    Wonderful, just wonderful to see @DavidL and @Charles come out in defence of Boris the ping-dodger.

    Brings a tear to the eye.

    I am not defending him. I think the rules which he is dodging should not apply to anyone who has been double vaxxed for more than 3 weeks. The fact that he has contrived this absurd excuse so he can continue running the country just shows how silly these rules are. Boris is a risk in all kinds of ways. Infecting people with Covid is not one of them.
    Now the thing is, I agree with you on the practicality of the measures themselves.

    But I immediately saw Boris’s “can’t isolate, won’t isolate” as offensive cakeism, whereas you ran with “what a wonderful govt, at least 7/10”.

    Your compass is almost as bent as Boris’s.
    That post was an overall assessment of the government's performance and I stand by it.

    I have been clear all morning (despite trips to Tesco etc) that I don't agree with the continuation of the isolation policy. But it is an example of what I was talking about in the overall assessment. The government's position is ridiculous and incoherent but also inconsequential. The big things that matter are generally favourable and are trundling on through the noise. By focusing so much on the noise we are missing the fact that this is, despite the stupidity and chaos, a more than averagely successful government.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:
    Yes but technically Reunion where the Beta variant is rampant is still part of France as a French overseas department, it is not an independent country
    Are there any travel restrictions between Reunion and the French mainland? If not then there is a clear, if theoretical, risk of spread
  • pigeon said:

    Who is advising the Government, their judgment is just dreadful, when will the public give up, it is depressing they are still ahead!

    They're still ahead because they are pitted in an ugly contest against Labour. It doesn't matter how bad one lot are if a sufficient number of voters are afraid that the alternative would be even worse.
    Keir needs to carry on expelling the nutters, then people will see this is a different party
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 22,350

    Identify that quote

    "Probably the battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton, but the opening battles of all subsequent wars have been lost there. One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class."

    From one of the greatest Englishmen ever, too. (Had to look it up as I wasn't sure.)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 22,024
    DavidL said:

    By focusing so much on the noise we are missing the fact that this is, despite the stupidity and chaos, a more than averagely successful government.

    It really isn't though.

    Successful at winning votes, maybe.

    Feeding it's citizens? Not really.

    Keeping them safe? Nope.

    Educating them? Ha Ha Ha.

    Maintaining the integrity of the Nation? Hell no.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 7,846

    Andy_JS said:

    Johnson has U-turned on self-isolating. Makes Jenrick look silly, who'd just defended the pilot scheme.

    In fairness, making Jenrick look silly is hardly difficult.
    It's why people like Jenrick weren't forced to resign. He's now so pathetically beholden to the PM that he can be asked to suffer any indignity and he will do it.

    The uselessness of the Cabinet is a benefit to Johnson, not a hindrance.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 50,550
    Henry Mance
    @henrymance
    ·
    2h
    why didn’t Matt Hancock just say he was on a pilot scheme?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 33,403

    DavidL said:

    Wonderful, just wonderful to see @DavidL and @Charles come out in defence of Boris the ping-dodger.

    Brings a tear to the eye.

    I am not defending him. I think the rules which he is dodging should not apply to anyone who has been double vaxxed for more than 3 weeks. The fact that he has contrived this absurd excuse so he can continue running the country just shows how silly these rules are. Boris is a risk in all kinds of ways. Infecting people with Covid is not one of them.
    Now the thing is, I agree with you on the practicality of the measures themselves.

    But I immediately saw Boris’s “can’t isolate, won’t isolate” as offensive cakeism, whereas you ran with “what a wonderful govt, at least 7/10”.

    Your compass is almost as bent as Boris’s.
    Tbf I’m happy to accept that DavidL has a moral compass though I may disagree with its cardinal points a lot of the time. Two letters BJ hasn’t got one hence his tin ear in scenarios like this.
This discussion has been closed.