Inevitably the front pages are once again dominated by the football – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Leon seems very concerned that we know he watched the game in Hackney, but of course fucked back off to his West London home thereafter. Obv one of the lads with gucci loafers2
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Covid news:
Netherlands: "only" 9318 new cases on Sunday (10283 the day before), and no deaths (1 the day before);
Tunisia: 6592/144, down from 9286/194;
Russia: the ongoing wave of deaths is taller than any previous wave, but it seems to be topping out;
Ukraine: "only" 290/5 - in need of an explanation, given vaccination rates (1x,2x) of 5% and 3%.
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I'm as sick as a parrot.state_go_away said:Is anyone "gutted" ? i managed a "oh well" at the end .
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When I read Among The Thugs I thought I was reading history from the 80s and 90s. Seems like nothing has changed.FrancisUrquhart said:My twitter timeline is now starting to fill with videos of and reports of fighting / stabbing / throwing people in the Thames in London....
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Let's wait and see. Clearly there have been some deplorable incidents, and questions need to be asked about how large numbers of ticketless fans gained access, but some of it looks like rowdiness that got out of hand, such as when the tube was disrupted because flares let off in the street triggered smoke alarms.Andy_JS said:
When I read Among The Thugs I thought I was reading history from the 80s and 90s. Seems like nothing has changed.FrancisUrquhart said:My twitter timeline is now starting to fill with videos of and reports of fighting / stabbing / throwing people in the Thames in London....
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What a sad end to an enjoyable tournament. But as even the three lions song itself hints, we've seen many parts of this all before. The team have made great strides, but the culture of the fans needs to change.
https://twitter.com/England/status/1414390646169821186
"We’re disgusted that some of our squad – who have given everything for the shirt this summer – have been subjected to discriminatory abuse online after tonight’s game.
We stand with our players."0 -
Italy had 2/3 of thr possession, 3x the number of shots and 3x the number of shots on target. Although thise stats aren't really what proper analysis looks at, it gives a flavour that Italy really were the team on top.4
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Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.0 -
Apart from when Kane set up England's goal?rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.0 -
Did he? I thought that what Trippier...DecrepiterJohnL said:
Apart from when Kane set up England's goal?rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.0 -
Although, goals do change games so perhaps not so surprising given England were in front for a fair amount of the game.FrancisUrquhart said:Italy had 2/3 of thr possession, 3x the number of shots and 3x the number of shots on target. Although thise stats aren't really what proper analysis looks at, it gives a flavour that Italy really were the team on top.
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It was. Kane gave the ball to Trippier. This might be what @TheScreamingEagles calls the pre-assist.tlg86 said:
Did he? I thought that what Trippier...DecrepiterJohnL said:
Apart from when Kane set up England's goal?rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.
Here is the match cut down to six minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvK4ReWujt00 -
I’d say that was of more importance against Denmark when Kane played the ball in behind the defence.DecrepiterJohnL said:
It was. Kane gave the ball to Trippier. This might be what @TheScreamingEagles calls the pre-assist.tlg86 said:
Did he? I thought that what Trippier...DecrepiterJohnL said:
Apart from when Kane set up England's goal?rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.
Here is the match cut down to six minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvK4ReWujt0
Kane was anonymous for the last 75 minutes.0 -
That’s possibly the most insightful piece of analysis I’ve seen from HYFUD.northern_monkey said:
Some idiot screenshotted it.StuartDickson said:
Ok, in that case I missed the post in question. But it does beg the question if FUDHY’s post was bad enough to force him to resign his seat, why was it insufficient to get him a PB ban?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Don't think so. His post was crass but not red card material.StuartDickson said:
FUDHY I think. The mod said that if anyone screenshot his post and sent it to the media, he’d have to resign his seat.NickPalmer said:I see someone got banned - who was that?
England did really better than most of us expected - can't win them all. Embarrassed by some of our fans though, even if Leon thinks them just being manly.
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That happened two minutes in. For the following 128 minutes (including stoppage) he might as well have been absent.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Apart from when Kane set up England's goal?rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.0 -
Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.0 -
Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.0
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Maybe things were said in the heat of the moment that on reflection might have lacked nuance.tlg86 said:
That’s possibly the most insightful piece of analysis I’ve seen from HYFUD.northern_monkey said:
Some idiot screenshotted it.StuartDickson said:
Ok, in that case I missed the post in question. But it does beg the question if FUDHY’s post was bad enough to force him to resign his seat, why was it insufficient to get him a PB ban?DecrepiterJohnL said:
Don't think so. His post was crass but not red card material.StuartDickson said:
FUDHY I think. The mod said that if anyone screenshot his post and sent it to the media, he’d have to resign his seat.NickPalmer said:I see someone got banned - who was that?
England did really better than most of us expected - can't win them all. Embarrassed by some of our fans though, even if Leon thinks them just being manly.0 -
BiB - oh, they’d definitely practiced. But it’s just very difficult to recreate the situation. If Rashford had been taking his pens in training like he took his in the shootout then Southgate got it wrong in my opinion.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
Shevchenko v Liverpool in 05
Ronaldo v Chelsea in 08
Jorginho v England in 21
All players who regularly take that style of penalty. All missed in the most pressurised situation.0 -
What Italy did, that England have not demonstrated they can do, they made adjustments to their system after 15-20 mins and by 30 mins they were bossing the game.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
England have a well drilled system, but it was clear that they needed to adjust and just weren't capable of doing so. By the mid point of the second half there was lots of pointing and shouting and some lost looking faces in the England team.2 -
Of course, a huge amount of the pressure is because of the situation, which is only ever there in the moment, with the fans cheering and the trophy waiting to be collected.tlg86 said:
BiB - oh, they’d definitely practiced. But it’s just very difficult to recreate the situation. If Rashford had been taking his pens in training like he took his in the shootout then Southgate got it wrong in my opinion.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
Shevchenko v Liverpool in 05
Ronaldo v Chelsea in 08
Jorginho v England in 21
All players who regularly take that style of penalty. All missed in the most pressurised situation.
I met Mr Shevchenko once, didn’t dare mention I was a Liverpool fan! His Ukranian team did themselves proud this tournament.0 -
It is surprising Saka was allowed to take the fifth: a teenager who has never taken a penalty before. Presumably he'd been banging them in on the training ground but surely of all people, Gareth Southgate should have known how much pressure he was placing on those young shoulders.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.2 -
Taking the hype away, England aren't the second best team in Europe. They got an easy draw, but beat those put in front of them by playing a solid well drilled approach (like they did in the World Cup), but are rather one dimensional and would have also definitely struggled to beat at least France, Belgium or Spain if they had had to play them.
The question is can the now develop further beyond this rather predictable safety first style. In theory they have the players (and more outside the squad), but can the manager find a way of marrying all the talent to add that missing dimension.4 -
I wonder, did somebody else bottle it? Or perhaps Grealish was suppose to take one, but he took that bad knock to the knee in extra time?DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is surprising Saka was allowed to take the fifth: a teenager who has never taken a penalty before. Presumably he'd been banging them in on the training ground but surely of all people, Gareth Southgate should have known how much pressure he was placing on those young shoulders.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.0 -
When the camera was over the huddle, the order looked to be: Grealish, Shaw, Stones. But I don’t know if that they were next or if Stirling was before them.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder, did somebody else bottle it? Or perhaps Grealish was suppose to take one, but he took that bad knock to the knee in extra time?DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is surprising Saka was allowed to take the fifth: a teenager who has never taken a penalty before. Presumably he'd been banging them in on the training ground but surely of all people, Gareth Southgate should have known how much pressure he was placing on those young shoulders.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.0 -
Spot on.FrancisUrquhart said:Taking the hype away, England aren't the second best team in Europe. They got an easy draw, but beat those put in front of them by playing a solid well drilled approach (like they did in the World Cup), but are rather one dimensional and would have also definitely struggled to beat at least France, Belgium or Spain if they had had to play them.
The question is can the now develop further beyond this rather predictable safety first style. In theory they have the players (and more outside the squad), but can the manager find a way of marrying all the talent to add that missing dimension.
Italy were the first really good side that we played.0 -
That is possible. Gareth Southgate took responsibility but close reading does not rule out late adjustments.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder, did somebody else bottle it? Or perhaps Grealish was suppose to take one, but he took that bad knock to the knee in extra time?DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is surprising Saka was allowed to take the fifth: a teenager who has never taken a penalty before. Presumably he'd been banging them in on the training ground but surely of all people, Gareth Southgate should have known how much pressure he was placing on those young shoulders.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
“That is my responsibility,” said Southgate. “I chose the guys to take the kicks. I told the players that nobody is on their own in that situation. We win and lose together as a team. They have been tight throughout and that’s how it needs to stay.
“It is my decision to give [Saka] that penalty. That is totally my responsibility. It is not him or Marcus or Jadon. We worked through them in training. That is the order we came to.
“Marcus and Jadon have been by far the best in the lead in [to the game]. It was a gamble [to bring them on] but if we gamble earlier we maybe lose the game in extra time.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/07/11/heartbreaking-boy-football-reacted-englands-euro-2020-final/0 -
Instead of being a leader he is worried about the opinion pollingDecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
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What an idiotic comment. Kane played some sensational passes, including for the goal, and held the ball up well.rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.
Easy to look for scapegoats but he's not the right one.0 -
That or the science, and Boris's natural optimism (or desire to please) meant his mouth ran ahead of the data. We might find out in 12 hours or so.Cocky_cockney said:
Instead of being a leader he is worried about the opinion pollingDecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
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Kane also scored the first penalty, of course.Cocky_cockney said:
What an idiotic comment. Kane played some sensational passes, including for the goal, and held the ball up well.rcs1000 said:
Can we sack Kane, though?northern_monkey said:
‘We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure’Leon said:One of the advantages of age is that "sporting defeat" means less, and less, as the years go by. It is just life.
On my table in that Hackney pub was a younger woman who was just inconsolable, having been recently introduced to, and enthused, by English football, she was utterly convinced we would win
I tried to solace her but in the end you just have to take the scars, until you are an old git like me who has seen it all before, and it bounces off
We should sack Southgate, however. Do not reward failure
Night night
Most successful England manager since Alf Ramsey. Young team, who seem to think the world of Southgate, who have got years of development and potential ahead of them. Playing with style and a confidence that doesn’t make you feel like it could all fall apart at any minute.
Sack Southgate. Jesus.
Edit: I’d love to have a pint with you though Leon, I bet in real life you’re a fucking diamond.
I mean, we played with 10 men for 120 minutes.
Easy to look for scapegoats but he's not the right one.1 -
Hopefully not, it's time for people to make their own decisions again.DecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
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Apart from Scotland...Cocky_cockney said:Italy were the first really good side that we played.
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A triumph of expectation over reality. At least there will be three players sharing the opprobrium rather than poor old Southgate.GIN1138 said:
Can't win them all? England haven't won a tournament for 55 years lol!NickPalmer said:I see someone got banned - who was that?
England did really better than most of us expected - can't win them all. Embarrassed by some of our fans though, even if Leon thinks them just being manly.
The real figures we need is how many arrests and what for and how many police were injured last night...0 -
On what information would people make their own decisions? Are perspex shields effective or do they increase the danger of infection? I don't know, and I'm pretty sure the guy in the pizza shop is not moonlighting as an atmospheric physicist.Andy_JS said:
Hopefully not, it's time for people to make their own decisions again.DecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
Separate from that is without the danger of people not taking into account risk to others – it might be safe for a young, fit, double-jabbed couple to holiday in a Covid hotspot but suppose they bring a new variant back home and kill granny.
If the experts determine it is safe to return to the office, commuting by rail, without masks, then they should say so, loudly and clearly, not hide behind Joe Public.0 -
"Experts" DO offer advice, loudly and clearly, all the time. The Internet has made it easily accessible.DecrepiterJohnL said:
On what information would people make their own decisions? Are perspex shields effective or do they increase the danger of infection? I don't know, and I'm pretty sure the guy in the pizza shop is not moonlighting as an atmospheric physicist.Andy_JS said:
Hopefully not, it's time for people to make their own decisions again.DecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
Separate from that is without the danger of people not taking into account risk to others – it might be safe for a young, fit, double-jabbed couple to holiday in a Covid hotspot but suppose they bring a new variant back home and kill granny.
If the experts determine it is safe to return to the office, commuting by rail, without masks, then they should say so, loudly and clearly, not hide behind Joe Public.
Of course, very often, particularly in health care, that advice is reversed in a few years anyway. So I'm afraid I think you're looking for a comfort blanket that isn't really there, or at best has lots of holes in it.0 -
They has that guy with the folder of formations in the Italian squad. As if they were deciding “now we’ll switch to formation 7C”.FrancisUrquhart said:
What Italy did, that England have not demonstrated they can do, they made adjustments to their system after 15-20 mins and by 30 mins they were bossing the game.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
England have a well drilled system, but it was clear that they needed to adjust and just weren't capable of doing so. By the mid point of the second half there was lots of pointing and shouting and some lost looking faces in the England team.
How many ways to play football are there?0 -
So missing penalties is all they were good for, and actually having them play the game would have been a risk?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is possible. Gareth Southgate took responsibility but close reading does not rule out late adjustments.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder, did somebody else bottle it? Or perhaps Grealish was suppose to take one, but he took that bad knock to the knee in extra time?DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is surprising Saka was allowed to take the fifth: a teenager who has never taken a penalty before. Presumably he'd been banging them in on the training ground but surely of all people, Gareth Southgate should have known how much pressure he was placing on those young shoulders.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
“That is my responsibility,” said Southgate. “I chose the guys to take the kicks. I told the players that nobody is on their own in that situation. We win and lose together as a team. They have been tight throughout and that’s how it needs to stay.
“It is my decision to give [Saka] that penalty. That is totally my responsibility. It is not him or Marcus or Jadon. We worked through them in training. That is the order we came to.
“Marcus and Jadon have been by far the best in the lead in [to the game]. It was a gamble [to bring them on] but if we gamble earlier we maybe lose the game in extra time.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/07/11/heartbreaking-boy-football-reacted-englands-euro-2020-final/1 -
The endlessly changing and frequently contradictory advice on mask wearing is a case in point. Although that seems to change monthly if not weekly rather than every few years.Fishing said:
"Experts" DO offer advice, loudly and clearly, all the time. The Internet has made it easily accessible.DecrepiterJohnL said:
On what information would people make their own decisions? Are perspex shields effective or do they increase the danger of infection? I don't know, and I'm pretty sure the guy in the pizza shop is not moonlighting as an atmospheric physicist.Andy_JS said:
Hopefully not, it's time for people to make their own decisions again.DecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
Separate from that is without the danger of people not taking into account risk to others – it might be safe for a young, fit, double-jabbed couple to holiday in a Covid hotspot but suppose they bring a new variant back home and kill granny.
If the experts determine it is safe to return to the office, commuting by rail, without masks, then they should say so, loudly and clearly, not hide behind Joe Public.
Of course, very often, particularly in health care, that advice is reversed in a few years anyway. So I'm afraid I think you're looking for a comfort blanket that isn't really there, or at best has lots of holes in it.0 -
“People will be expected to wear masks in enclosed spaces after Freedom Day”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566039/masks-in-enclosed-spaces-after-freedom-day/0 -
...
1 -
La Gazzetta dello Sport:
Football is coming home. Of course, we can sing it, or rather scream without risking treason. Because football is also at home in Italy, and it's a beautiful all-blue home.
The triumph comes on penalties thanks to a new feat by Gigio Donnarumma, who blocks the English twice after the 1-1 in extra time. Yes, we made them blue and we did it at their home, in front of sixty thousand fans unleashed for 120 minutes. The Three Lions were tamed, we turned them into puppies, and Mancini managed to do all this while having fun and entertaining for a whole month.
Mancini crowns a virtuous journey that began three years ago and completed exceptionally quickly, giving us a title that, in addition to enriching the trophy room in Coverciano, has the merit of relaunching an entire nation from all points of view. It is the Italy brand that shines again, with a people who have rediscovered the happiness of embracing each other again. Sports, economic and social victory.0 -
At least we've been spared the ugly opportunism of Boris Johnson.
(On this occasion.)2 -
If we linger too long over the penalties we will miss the bigger picture: Italy were the better side for 3/4 of the game. After about 30 minutes we stopped playing, sank back and went into our defensive mindset. When England revert to that style they are bloody boring to watch. Even with 95% of the stadium Home-filled we couldn't get the side to play attractively.
The better team on the night, and in the competition, won.2 -
Via CNN: I think we've got good players and ice boys, but more importantly relatable boys," English journalist Darren Lewis tells CNN. "I think the secret to the success of this team is that the people in charge of the England team -- and I mean the PR team around them -- have allowed them to speak on issues that affect them, on issues that people can connect with.
"They've allowed them to be normal. I remember being at the 2010 World Cup and England were keeping their players away from everyone, treating them like rock stars. I remember going down to the harbor in South Africa and the Dutch were walking around -- they were finalists that year -- walking around, talking to people, just enjoying themselves.
"I think this regime who are looking after the team, they realize that it's important just to let the players be players, let them be men who people can connect with. If you walk through some parts of the crowd, I remember doing it after games and being struck by the diversity in the crowd; black, brown, white.
"Everyone wants to be a part of this England because they identify with [Raheem] Sterling, [Harry] Kane, [Tyrone] Mings, [Jordan] Henderson. They identify with these players because these players aren't detached. They care about their communities. They care about the people in the places that they come from and that means a lot to the general public."4 -
The problem (if that report is correct) is that there has never in practice been a legal requirement to wear masks. All you need to do is make a verbal declaration that you are exempt due to disability and you cannot, in law, be challenged for proof.Scott_xP said:“People will be expected to wear masks in enclosed spaces after Freedom Day”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566039/masks-in-enclosed-spaces-after-freedom-day/
So all this bullshitting about ‘expectations’ and ‘requirements’ is so much hot air. If people want to wear masks they were always able to, if they didn’t want to they didn’t have to.
My main concerns are (1) they’re not likely to be very effective on things like trains where the air is recirculated anyway (2) they’re seldom worn correctly so are of limited real world value even if they were effective and (3) given they have to be taken down to drink (which happens a lot on hot trains in summer months) any virus could be transferred from the mask to hands and then to surfaces and thence to other people unless people use an appropriate sanitiser (and alcohol based anti-viral sanitiser is almost unobtainable except in bulk quantities - shops mostly sell useless anti-bacterial sanitiser).
What does puzzle me is how much they’ve been fetishised by the government. If I felt cynical I would suggest because it’s simple and noticeable and makes people who haven’t thought through the implications feel a bit safer. Like those silly LFTs that are even more useless than Gavin Williamson.1 -
.
So how did so poor a team take Italy all the way to penalties ?FrancisUrquhart said:Taking the hype away, England aren't the second best team in Europe. They got an easy draw, but beat those put in front of them by playing a solid well drilled approach (like they did in the World Cup), but are rather one dimensional and would have also definitely struggled to beat at least France, Belgium or Spain if they had had to play them.
The question is can the now develop further beyond this rather predictable safety first style. In theory they have the players (and more outside the squad), but can the manager find a way of marrying all the talent to add that missing dimension.
There’s room for improvement, but they did pretty well.4 -
In case anyone thinks I am exaggerating about the status of the law, click on this link:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/903452/Exemption_from_face_covering_badge_for_mobile_phone.pdf
That’s freely available for anyone to download. No need to prove anything.
You can also get what’s called a ‘sunflower lanyard,’ saying you have a hidden disability and so are exempt, simply by going to Morrison’s and asking the guy on the door for one.
It is crazy that this is the situation while everyone is being threatened with multi thousand pound fines for not wearing them.2 -
Thank f*ck for that!Cocky_cockney said:At least we've been spared the ugly opportunism of Boris Johnson.
(On this occasion.)0 -
I think that Southgate did well with the players that he had. Some showed inexperience, such as Saka. Quick, but those ageing Italian centre backs had him, Sterling and Kane all nullified.Nigelb said:.
So how did so poor a team take Italy all the way to penalties ?FrancisUrquhart said:Taking the hype away, England aren't the second best team in Europe. They got an easy draw, but beat those put in front of them by playing a solid well drilled approach (like they did in the World Cup), but are rather one dimensional and would have also definitely struggled to beat at least France, Belgium or Spain if they had had to play them.
The question is can the now develop further beyond this rather predictable safety first style. In theory they have the players (and more outside the squad), but can the manager find a way of marrying all the talent to add that missing dimension.
There’s room for improvement, but they did pretty well.
5 at the back with 2 defensive midfielders was tough to break down, but abandoned creativity in the midfield. Much as I dislike the Villa, Grealish needed to be on earlier. I have seen it too much at Leicester. 3 CB's worked best if they play a higher line, and more support in midfield.
There are a few others coming up for England (Barnes and Maddison at Leicester) that are good future prospects too.
A lot of our fans are twats too. Those scenes breaking down fences and into the stadium will give good excuse to turning down bids to host, and sadly correctly. If we cannot organise security at grounds we shouldn't host. Just as well that Constable Rain turned up for the police.
1 -
Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.2 -
Morning all. Raining here too. Not a day for a light mood, it seems. England Women's cricket had a poor day, too.0
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Can it bugger off to Cheltenham and stay there for three days please?OldKingCole said:Morning all. Raining here too. Not a day for a light mood, it seems. England Women's cricket had a poor day, too.
Have a good morning.
Unless you are Hampshire, in which case (sorry @Stuartinromford ) please have a bad one!0 -
Bad luck England.
By far, the best England side I have seen. It will happen one day soon (I hope).
Sadly, we still live in a racist country as evidenced by a significant minority of England supporters. BLM and taking the knee has sadly made little difference. Sighs.2 -
It's almost as if booing the knee was a sign of racist intent rather than anything else.RochdalePioneers said:Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.
Booing national anthems is very poor too.4 -
I know - who'd have thought that booing the team's stand against racism was something that racists would do and support?Foxy said:
It's almost as if booing the knee was a sign of racist intent rather than anything else.RochdalePioneers said:Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.
Booing national anthems is very poor too.
Talking about supporting racism, entertaining to see Liar on Twitter this morning condemning the racist abuse aimed at players. The same man who gave succour to the racists booing the players taking the knee.
He really is Dave Dodds isn't he. Blows in the wind, changes his mind minute to minute depending on which way the wind is blowing https://youtu.be/_6O0P74ALLM2 -
I don't think penalties in competitions like this are all about the technical skill; they're about emotional frame.
What needs practising is tuning out jeering, noise, booing and the eye of sauron to focus on breathing, the ball and self-control. Then, you whack it in.
So, I'd probably have picked an older more experienced player than one who was technically better on the training ground.1 -
Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.2 -
Our PM is a disingenuous racist fat fornicator. Nothing more, nothing less....RochdalePioneers said:
I know - who'd have thought that booing the team's stand against racism was something that racists would do and support?Foxy said:
It's almost as if booing the knee was a sign of racist intent rather than anything else.RochdalePioneers said:Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.
Booing national anthems is very poor too.
Talking about supporting racism, entertaining to see Liar on Twitter this morning condemning the racist abuse aimed at players. The same man who gave succour to the racists booing the players taking the knee.
He really is Dave Dodds isn't he. Blows in the wind, changes his mind minute to minute depending on which way the wind is blowing https://youtu.be/_6O0P74ALLM1 -
1. You can't win games if you spend 75% of the game in your own half.
2. If they were saving the "old heads" to take penalties later on when the pressure was on, this will I hope make them look at that tactic.
3. If anyone is surprised at the behaviour of some of the England fans then they really haven't been following football for the past 40 years, and I'm sure longer.3 -
Yes, in the context of who they were replacing.IanB2 said:
So missing penalties is all they were good for, and actually having them play the game would have been a risk?DecrepiterJohnL said:
That is possible. Gareth Southgate took responsibility but close reading does not rule out late adjustments.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder, did somebody else bottle it? Or perhaps Grealish was suppose to take one, but he took that bad knock to the knee in extra time?DecrepiterJohnL said:
It is surprising Saka was allowed to take the fifth: a teenager who has never taken a penalty before. Presumably he'd been banging them in on the training ground but surely of all people, Gareth Southgate should have known how much pressure he was placing on those young shoulders.Sandpit said:Morning all. Well, having read through the last 300 comments, I think there might be a few hangovers this morning among the denizens of PB.
Well done Italy, they were the better team on the night. I still don’t understand Southgate waiting until right at the end of extra time to use his final two substitutions, so they weren’t even properly warmed up when asked to take their penalties. That wasn’t a squad that had been practicing spot kicks. Good effort from Pickford to save two, on another night he’d have been the hero.
“That is my responsibility,” said Southgate. “I chose the guys to take the kicks. I told the players that nobody is on their own in that situation. We win and lose together as a team. They have been tight throughout and that’s how it needs to stay.
“It is my decision to give [Saka] that penalty. That is totally my responsibility. It is not him or Marcus or Jadon. We worked through them in training. That is the order we came to.
“Marcus and Jadon have been by far the best in the lead in [to the game]. It was a gamble [to bring them on] but if we gamble earlier we maybe lose the game in extra time.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/07/11/heartbreaking-boy-football-reacted-englands-euro-2020-final/0 -
Racism is alive and well in this country buddy. What do we do? Nothing?Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.1 -
Booing is poor in any form, rude and disrespectful.Foxy said:
It's almost as if booing the knee was a sign of racist intent rather than anything else.RochdalePioneers said:Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.
Booing national anthems is very poor too.
However, the fact that racist incidents occur does not lead directly to "we must take the knee" as the means to combat it, which we know is a polarising gesture, and carries significant objections from non-racists. Including me.
What is needed is leadership and a unifying gesture that all can rally around, and exposes, marginalises and drives out the undesirables.
I'd suggest standing in a circle and linking arms to show unity against racism before a match.5 -
So replace one gesture with another gesture? What's the difference?Casino_Royale said:
Booing is poor in any form, rude and disrespectful.Foxy said:
It's almost as if booing the knee was a sign of racist intent rather than anything else.RochdalePioneers said:Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.
Booing national anthems is very poor too.
However, the fact that racist incidents occur does not lead directly to "we must take the knee" as the means to combat it, which we know is a polarising gesture, and carries significant objections from non-racists. Including me.
What is needed is leadership and a unifying gesture that all can rally around, and exposes, marginalises and drives out the undesirables.
I'd suggest standing in a circle and linking arms to show unity against racism before a match.3 -
Cronies.....
Hundreds of meetings between Scottish ministers and multinationals, wealthy individuals and other influential organisations were left off the lobbying register in 2020 due to loopholes in legislation, The Ferret can reveal.
Analysis of Scottish Government ministers’ engagements in 2020 shows that meetings, potentially of key public interest, were not in the register, including those between ministers and companies awarded multi-million pound UK and Scottish contracts to supply the NHS in the run-up to Covid-19.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19434290.snp-government-held-hundreds-secret-lobbying-meetings-2020/
0 -
We haven't said that. Plenty of F1 drivers stand instead of kneeling for their "we race as one" thing every race - they aren't racists in not kneeling and nobody has suggested they are.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.
What is racist is when racists boo England players for taking the knee against racism. Who then racially abuse the players they claim to support.1 -
Mr. S, use a campaign that doesn't ape BLM?
You can't attend a sci-fi convention, throw Vulcan salutes, and then claim you're not playing at being a Vulcan. Especially when a few weeks earlier you were wearing a shirt with Vulcan Lives Matter on it.0 -
You are in favour of a particular gesture which indicates you are against racism?Casino_Royale said:
Booing is poor in any form, rude and disrespectful.Foxy said:
It's almost as if booing the knee was a sign of racist intent rather than anything else.RochdalePioneers said:Almost immediately after the match we saw an appalling outburst of racist abuse aimed at Rashford, Sancho and Saka. Rightly condemned by England management.
Anyone still going to claim they shouldn't take the knee because in doing so they are supporting Marxism?
The English game remains infested with racism. Sadly. They take the knee to show the morons who claim to be fans whilst hating players for being forrin are not welcome.
Booing national anthems is very poor too.
However, the fact that racist incidents occur does not lead directly to "we must take the knee" as the means to combat it, which we know is a polarising gesture, and carries significant objections from non-racists. Including me.
What is needed is leadership and a unifying gesture that all can rally around, and exposes, marginalises and drives out the undesirables.
I'd suggest standing in a circle and linking arms to show unity against racism before a match.
Hmm...let me think of one that might be good for the purpose.
Despite many on here keeping close track of the organisation behind taking the knee, 90% of people are unaware of it and/or Colin Kaepernick. And fewer by the day will know its origins.1 -
In my benevolent moments I think that that's why the government has never done a proper cost-benefit analysis of lockdowns - because it would have to be revised so quickly as opinions on the costs and benefits change.ydoethur said:
The endlessly changing and frequently contradictory advice on mask wearing is a case in point. Although that seems to change monthly if not weekly rather than every few years.Fishing said:
"Experts" DO offer advice, loudly and clearly, all the time. The Internet has made it easily accessible.DecrepiterJohnL said:
On what information would people make their own decisions? Are perspex shields effective or do they increase the danger of infection? I don't know, and I'm pretty sure the guy in the pizza shop is not moonlighting as an atmospheric physicist.Andy_JS said:
Hopefully not, it's time for people to make their own decisions again.DecrepiterJohnL said:Boris is up this afternoon to tell us about Step 4 out of lockdown next Monday. Weekend whispers suggest HMG might be having second thoughts about this Freedom malarkey.
Separate from that is without the danger of people not taking into account risk to others – it might be safe for a young, fit, double-jabbed couple to holiday in a Covid hotspot but suppose they bring a new variant back home and kill granny.
If the experts determine it is safe to return to the office, commuting by rail, without masks, then they should say so, loudly and clearly, not hide behind Joe Public.
Of course, very often, particularly in health care, that advice is reversed in a few years anyway. So I'm afraid I think you're looking for a comfort blanket that isn't really there, or at best has lots of holes in it.
After all, the Brexit forecasts the Treasury published were rubbish - for instance a 10-18% fall in house prices when they've actually RISEN by about that amount.
But it still amazes me that the most fundamental restrictions to our lives since the emergency measures during the Second World War were passed repeatedly with less debate than the Dangerous Dogs Act and less analysis than is needed for a minor country road to be built. And, even worse, that the Opposition haven't called them out on it.3 -
More Ledru-Rollin...RochdalePioneers said:
He really is Dave Dodds isn't he. Blows in the wind, changes his mind minute to minute depending on which way the wind is blowing https://youtu.be/_6O0P74ALLM
Il faut bien que je les suive, puisque je suis leur chef.
1 -
"What is racist is when racists boo England players for taking the knee against racism. Who then racially abuse the players they claim to support."RochdalePioneers said:
We haven't said that. Plenty of F1 drivers stand instead of kneeling for their "we race as one" thing every race - they aren't racists in not kneeling and nobody has suggested they are.Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.
What is racist is when racists boo England players for taking the knee against racism. Who then racially abuse the players they claim to support.
This sentence is what it's all about. Thank you brother.4 -
The government openly encourages it. The racists want all these forrin asylum seekers in their boats to drown - go read posts on a Farrage on a boat video, they are appalling.murali_s said:
Racism is alive and well in this country buddy. What do we do? Nothing?Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.
So the government drafts a new bill to make it a criminal offence to pull a drowning migrant from the water. RNLI understandably outraged (hello @Big_G_NorthWales ), toff apologists say it's just a drafting error. Yeah right, it's virtue signalling for racists.
The racists tolerate the non-white players in the team as long as they can make the required monkey noises at them. Get very upset when someone calls their racism racist, white lives matter innit. So the PM and his psychotic Home Secretary tell the racists it's ok to boo the campaign to stop racism. And then we get racist abuse and the PM is Shocked.
They know exactly what they are doing. They want the racist vote. They know how to get the racist vote.6 -
Blessed are the Knee-Takers, for they shall inherit….
Oh0 -
Masking up is an essential part of covid theatre.ydoethur said:
The problem (if that report is correct) is that there has never in practice been a legal requirement to wear masks. All you need to do is make a verbal declaration that you are exempt due to disability and you cannot, in law, be challenged for proof.Scott_xP said:“People will be expected to wear masks in enclosed spaces after Freedom Day”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566039/masks-in-enclosed-spaces-after-freedom-day/
So all this bullshitting about ‘expectations’ and ‘requirements’ is so much hot air. If people want to wear masks they were always able to, if they didn’t want to they didn’t have to.
My main concerns are (1) they’re not likely to be very effective on things like trains where the air is recirculated anyway (2) they’re seldom worn correctly so are of limited real world value even if they were effective and (3) given they have to be taken down to drink (which happens a lot on hot trains in summer months) any virus could be transferred from the mask to hands and then to surfaces and thence to other people unless people use an appropriate sanitiser (and alcohol based anti-viral sanitiser is almost unobtainable except in bulk quantities - shops mostly sell useless anti-bacterial sanitiser).
What does puzzle me is how much they’ve been fetishised by the government. If I felt cynical I would suggest because it’s simple and noticeable and makes people who haven’t thought through the implications feel a bit safer. Like those silly LFTs that are even more useless than Gavin Williamson.0 -
3
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The fact that black England players still face a high degree of very hostile racism is surely much more important than the way in which they choose to highlight that very depressing fact.10
-
Shearer of all people explained the feeling of going up to take a penalty in a match like that. He said it before the penalties were taken an it was a very interesting description which in short meant the taker had very little control over what they were doing. The legs had turned into lead. If anyone is interested in mind over matter and sport 'The Greatest' by Mohammed Ali is a fantastic read. Much the best of its type I've read.Flatlander said:
Horrible.gealbhan said:It looked like Southgate had got lucky with his tactical change when enthused wing backs contrived a goal before any game plan could get going. But fact is, Southgate change to back five surrendered too much possession and territory. He should have kept a back 4 front 3 and replaced Mount with Henderson to go toe to toe with the Italians in the midfield, we would have created more chances that way, and that would have been our best chance of taking the win. Instead we spent too much of this game on back foot when we should have had more possession and chances of our own.
Can call it a great run, lots of fun, but truth is we haven’t sealed the deal with home advantage. Both the World Cup and this tournament fixtures opened up chance for a good run - true, we should be strong entery into next years WC, but we could meet a Belgium, France, Italy much sooner than semi and final.
This was an historic missed opportunity this evening.
Ticketless fans getting in, in the numbers they clearly have should be treated very seriously. That’s the type of thing that can create lots of deaths.
Horrid to see Saka so nervous when stepping up, and so broken at end.
It seems obvious that the players who are the best at penalties in training are not necessarily the players who will be the best at penalties in the horrendous situation of a shoot-out. You can't replicate it realistically in advance.
Maybe it would be better to give them to players who contributed something to the match, so that they aren't defined by a single kick. Someone like Shaw, in this instance. Coming on just to kick the ball once seems like an awful burden.0 -
You are so heartless and unfeelingstate_go_away said:Is anyone "gutted" ? i managed a "oh well" at the end .
I did “Oh well, that’s a shame”1 -
Actually, I think we lost because we didn’t take enough knees. Which racist decided ‘one knee is enough’? It’s this half-hearted attitude - this bumbling through - which leads us on to constant defeatSouthamObserver said:
If we’d knelt down, properly, both knees, on a proper Afghani prayer mat, for at least 37 minutes before each match, we’d surely have won. We didn’t prove our commitment to anti racism sufficiently. And if that doesn’t work we should try lying completely prostrate for sixteen hours at half time while spitting on images of Florence Nightingale. Or we could try attacking the other goal, I suppose1 -
I once took and missed 4 penalties in a HMS Invincible vs USMC "soccer" match at Souda Bay. I am no Eden Hazard but I was normally decent on pens. However, our allies had kicked absolute fuck out of us with little regard to the rules and customs of the game (hence 4 penalties) so my head had fallen off.Roger said:
Shearer of all people explained the feeling of going up to take a penalty in a match like that. He said it before the penalties were taken an it was a very interesting description which in short meant the taker had very little control over what they were doing. The legs had turned into lead. If anyone is interested in mind over matter and sport 'The Greatest' by Mohammed Ali is a fantastic read. Much the best of its type I've read.1 -
Aftermath then reckoning.0
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It is brilliantly contradictory. My long standing objection is that the actual racism gets a free pass, whilst the focus is put on tackling speech and gestures.RochdalePioneers said:
The government openly encourages it. The racists want all these forrin asylum seekers in their boats to drown - go read posts on a Farrage on a boat video, they are appalling.murali_s said:
Racism is alive and well in this country buddy. What do we do? Nothing?Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.
So the government drafts a new bill to make it a criminal offence to pull a drowning migrant from the water. RNLI understandably outraged (hello @Big_G_NorthWales ), toff apologists say it's just a drafting error. Yeah right, it's virtue signalling for racists.
The racists tolerate the non-white players in the team as long as they can make the required monkey noises at them. Get very upset when someone calls their racism racist, white lives matter innit. So the PM and his psychotic Home Secretary tell the racists it's ok to boo the campaign to stop racism. And then we get racist abuse and the PM is Shocked.
They know exactly what they are doing. They want the racist vote. They know how to get the racist vote.0 -
The fact is that Italy beat 2 better teams than England in Belgium and Spain to even get to the final. They were worthy winners of the tournament even although England gave a fairly good account of themselves. 33 games unbeaten and in the second half especially you could see why. My fear on England's behalf is that their extremely favourable run to the final leads to more delusion.
Last night I thought Pickford, Shaw, Maguire, Walker and Rice had good games, others not so much. Mount, Kane and Sterling were all pretty anonymous, the latter disappointingly so after an excellent tournament. A lot of that was down to the Italian defence which was just outstanding, Chiellini and Bonucci in particular.
England are not in my view playing to their strengths and won't for as long as Southgate is manager. The Rice Philips partnership in midfield ahead of a back 5 leaves the front players isolated and starved of service. Both Rice and Philips are hardworking and diligent but there is no flair from them at all. I would love to see what a Mancini might do with this squad but Southgate seems to be there for as long as he wants.3 -
Scoring that early was probably the worst thing that could happen! Italy were beatable but England never went for it after the early goal . Italy thoroughly deserved to win . England bar one easy game away against Ukraine were at home throughout and will never get a better chance to win something . They have lots of talent in the squad but sadly Southgate took some top quality ingredients and instead of delivering a Michelin started meal turned out some slops from Little Chef .
Losing on penalties can happen to any team it’s the previous 118 mins of rubbish that really grates .0 -
In the end, England lost because we have a very likeable manager who is, however, tactically out of his depth at this level, and who has no idea how to win via attack
Also, and relatedly, Italy were the better side0 -
It wasn’t anything. He said we would have won if Rashford had spent more time practicing and less time campaigning. Typical pointless argument from him.NickPalmer said:
Ah - didn't see that. I don't think I'd have squealed, not sure anyone would - as Leon said recently, we're a sort of family.StuartDickson said:
FUDHY I think. The mod said that if anyone screenshot his post and sent it to the media, he’d have to resign his seat.NickPalmer said:I see someone got banned - who was that?
England did really better than most of us expected - can't win them all. Embarrassed by some of our fans though, even if Leon thinks them just being manly.1 -
It takes a Scotsman to tell us the truth. Bang onDavidL said:The fact is that Italy beat 2 better teams than England in Belgium and Spain to even get to the final. They were worthy winners of the tournament even although England gave a fairly good account of themselves. 33 games unbeaten and in the second half especially you could see why. My fear on England's behalf is that their extremely favourable run to the final leads to more delusion.
Last night I thought Pickford, Shaw, Maguire, Walker and Rice had good games, others not so much. Mount, Kane and Sterling were all pretty anonymous, the latter disappointingly so after an excellent tournament. A lot of that was down to the Italian defence which was just outstanding, Chiellini and Bonucci in particular.
England are not in my view playing to their strengths and won't for as long as Southgate is manager. The Rice Philips partnership in midfield ahead of a back 5 leaves the front players isolated and starved of service. Both Rice and Philips are hardworking and diligent but there is no flair from them at all. I would love to see what a Mancini might do with this squad but Southgate seems to be there for as long as he wants.
The problem is that all the knee-taking culture-war gibberish will mean Southgate stays in place, whereas, in reality, he’s an average manager blessed with remarkable players0 -
Standard IT security. It’s like that at my firm too.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Well, that's convenient. Embarrassing messages? Jut flub your password and IT will magic them away before the inquiry.Andy_JS said:O/T
"Pin resets wipe all data from over 100 Treasury mobile phones
Permanent secretary Tom Scholar among those affected after entering incorrect passwords repeatedly"
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/12/pin-resets-wipe-all-data-from-over-100-treasury-mobile-phones1 -
See Bruce Schneier and the concept of Security Theatre.ydoethur said:
The problem (if that report is correct) is that there has never in practice been a legal requirement to wear masks. All you need to do is make a verbal declaration that you are exempt due to disability and you cannot, in law, be challenged for proof.Scott_xP said:“People will be expected to wear masks in enclosed spaces after Freedom Day”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15566039/masks-in-enclosed-spaces-after-freedom-day/
So all this bullshitting about ‘expectations’ and ‘requirements’ is so much hot air. If people want to wear masks they were always able to, if they didn’t want to they didn’t have to.
My main concerns are (1) they’re not likely to be very effective on things like trains where the air is recirculated anyway (2) they’re seldom worn correctly so are of limited real world value even if they were effective and (3) given they have to be taken down to drink (which happens a lot on hot trains in summer months) any virus could be transferred from the mask to hands and then to surfaces and thence to other people unless people use an appropriate sanitiser (and alcohol based anti-viral sanitiser is almost unobtainable except in bulk quantities - shops mostly sell useless anti-bacterial sanitiser).
What does puzzle me is how much they’ve been fetishised by the government. If I felt cynical I would suggest because it’s simple and noticeable and makes people who haven’t thought through the implications feel a bit safer. Like those silly LFTs that are even more useless than Gavin Williamson.
It's a modification of the Politicians Syllogism.
"It is something that can be done. It probably doesn't hurt. Therefore we will do this."
Incidentally the LFT tests are provably less useless than Gavin Williamson - both I and some friends have observed LFTs detecting COVID. Therefore they have worked at least 3 times out of millions of attempts. Which means I personally have observed a higher success rate for LFTs vs Gavin Williamson.
Where are you seeing the issue with alcohol based sanitiser? There was a crunch period, when there was none. Seems to be back available commercially etc.0 -
I am relieved it is all over.. but sadly the inquest will go on and on and on ....Gnud said:1 -
You didn't clock that the Italians had taken the knee, did you?Leon said:
Actually, I think we lost because we didn’t take enough knees. Which racist decided ‘one knee is enough’? It’s this half-hearted attitude - this bumbling through - which leads us on to constant defeatSouthamObserver said:
If we’d knelt down, properly, both knees, on a proper Afghani prayer mat, for at least 37 minutes before each match, we’d surely have won. We didn’t prove our commitment to anti racism sufficiently. And if that doesn’t work we should try lying completely prostrate for sixteen hours at half time while spitting on images of Florence Nightingale. Or we could try attacking the other goal, I suppose
0 -
A proportion of England fans are not just twats but scum. This is also true of many other countries' fans (including Italy and in "za dom spremni" Croatia some of the players are also scum) but it still needs to be said. That the three English players who failed to score with penalty kicks yesterday have experienced racial abuse online since the loss to Italy shows how much further is still to go in removing racism from football culture, and how right it is to take the knee.Foxy said:
I think that Southgate did well with the players that he had. Some showed inexperience, such as Saka. Quick, but those ageing Italian centre backs had him, Sterling and Kane all nullified.Nigelb said:.
So how did so poor a team take Italy all the way to penalties ?FrancisUrquhart said:Taking the hype away, England aren't the second best team in Europe. They got an easy draw, but beat those put in front of them by playing a solid well drilled approach (like they did in the World Cup), but are rather one dimensional and would have also definitely struggled to beat at least France, Belgium or Spain if they had had to play them.
The question is can the now develop further beyond this rather predictable safety first style. In theory they have the players (and more outside the squad), but can the manager find a way of marrying all the talent to add that missing dimension.
There’s room for improvement, but they did pretty well.
5 at the back with 2 defensive midfielders was tough to break down, but abandoned creativity in the midfield. Much as I dislike the Villa, Grealish needed to be on earlier. I have seen it too much at Leicester. 3 CB's worked best if they play a higher line, and more support in midfield.
There are a few others coming up for England (Barnes and Maddison at Leicester) that are good future prospects too.
A lot of our fans are twats too. Those scenes breaking down fences and into the stadium will give good excuse to turning down bids to host, and sadly correctly. If we cannot organise security at grounds we shouldn't host. Just as well that Constable Rain turned up for the police.
4 -
It is my firm belief that Constable Savage is still out there, having completed his anti-racism courses.darkage said:
It is brilliantly contradictory. My long standing objection is that the actual racism gets a free pass, whilst the focus is put on tackling speech and gestures.RochdalePioneers said:
The government openly encourages it. The racists want all these forrin asylum seekers in their boats to drown - go read posts on a Farrage on a boat video, they are appalling.murali_s said:
Racism is alive and well in this country buddy. What do we do? Nothing?Morris_Dancer said:Good morning, everyone.
F1: British Grand Prix this weekend. Complete with sprint race. *sighs*
I see we're back on the "get on your knees or you're a racist" nonsense. I, for one, am shocked that importing a far left American 'philosophy' of race-baiting iconoclasts has increased rather than diminished unity. Whoever would've guessed it?
Saddened to hear of racial abuse, and the failure to secure the gates.
So the government drafts a new bill to make it a criminal offence to pull a drowning migrant from the water. RNLI understandably outraged (hello @Big_G_NorthWales ), toff apologists say it's just a drafting error. Yeah right, it's virtue signalling for racists.
The racists tolerate the non-white players in the team as long as they can make the required monkey noises at them. Get very upset when someone calls their racism racist, white lives matter innit. So the PM and his psychotic Home Secretary tell the racists it's ok to boo the campaign to stop racism. And then we get racist abuse and the PM is Shocked.
They know exactly what they are doing. They want the racist vote. They know how to get the racist vote.
He is now arresting people for drinking black coffee. Black people, probably.-1 -
One begets the other.SouthamObserver said:The fact that black England players still face a high degree of very hostile racism is surely much more important than the way in which they choose to highlight that very depressing fact.
Given the importance of the first it's crucial to adopt effective behaviours on the latter that unify action around it.0 -
Is your sister’s pub reopening? Contradictory signalsSouthamObserver said:
You didn't clock that the Italians had taken the knee, did you?Leon said:
Actually, I think we lost because we didn’t take enough knees. Which racist decided ‘one knee is enough’? It’s this half-hearted attitude - this bumbling through - which leads us on to constant defeatSouthamObserver said:
If we’d knelt down, properly, both knees, on a proper Afghani prayer mat, for at least 37 minutes before each match, we’d surely have won. We didn’t prove our commitment to anti racism sufficiently. And if that doesn’t work we should try lying completely prostrate for sixteen hours at half time while spitting on images of Florence Nightingale. Or we could try attacking the other goal, I suppose
That corner of Camden is looking particularly woebegone post-pandemic, so I hope it does (quite apart from wishing her well, of course)0 -
He was just being funny. It's his dry sense of humour. I was surprised people were getting hot under the collar about itCharles said:
It wasn’t anything. He said we would have won if Rashford had spent more time practicing and less time campaigning. Typical pointless argument from him.NickPalmer said:
Ah - didn't see that. I don't think I'd have squealed, not sure anyone would - as Leon said recently, we're a sort of family.StuartDickson said:
FUDHY I think. The mod said that if anyone screenshot his post and sent it to the media, he’d have to resign his seat.NickPalmer said:I see someone got banned - who was that?
England did really better than most of us expected - can't win them all. Embarrassed by some of our fans though, even if Leon thinks them just being manly.1 -
I think Southgate is rather good actually.Leon said:In the end, England lost because we have a very likeable manager who is, however, tactically out of his depth at this level, and who has no idea how to win via attack
Also, and relatedly, Italy were the better side
And, let's not forget, we almost won. A couple more decent kicks and it would have been us lifting the trophy and he'd have been lauded as a hero.
I agree the side wasn't quite as good as Italy on the night, but it was still good enough - and well coached enough - to get there.4 -
I wonder how Southgate’s popularity rating will suffer in.the next poll...0
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Surely its simpler than that. Italy won the tournament because they were the best side in it. Instead of all this "IT'S COMING HOME" crap like football owes England something, the focus should have been on what an amazing job a relatively young team had done in getting that far.Leon said:In the end, England lost because we have a very likeable manager who is, however, tactically out of his depth at this level, and who has no idea how to win via attack
Also, and relatedly, Italy were the better side
The "50 years of hurt" crap is like a boulder weighing the players down. As is the eternal tirade by the fans and the media against their own team and their own manager. Every England team and coach since St Bobby Robson has been attacked and reviled.
The problem isn't Southgate. Or the players. Its the fans. Only victory in every tournament is enough because victory is England's by right. Cobblers. The team were fantastic, lifted everyone's spirits bar the racist scum, and despite a talent deficit to the Italians almost snatched it.
Celebrate the heroic defeats. Every other country does it.3 -
HYUFD was banned?!Roger said:
He was just being funny. It's his dry sense of humour. I was surprised people were getting hot under the collar about itCharles said:
It wasn’t anything. He said we would have won if Rashford had spent more time practicing and less time campaigning. Typical pointless argument from him.NickPalmer said:
Ah - didn't see that. I don't think I'd have squealed, not sure anyone would - as Leon said recently, we're a sort of family.StuartDickson said:
FUDHY I think. The mod said that if anyone screenshot his post and sent it to the media, he’d have to resign his seat.NickPalmer said:I see someone got banned - who was that?
England did really better than most of us expected - can't win them all. Embarrassed by some of our fans though, even if Leon thinks them just being manly.0
