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Now a quarantine exemption plan for toffs – the rest of us will have to suffer – politicalbetting.co

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  • eekeek Posts: 29,554

    PMs have always been mocked, sure. But to cut through, the form of that mockery has to have a degree of "yeah, bang to rights" about it. Think of Maggie being lampooned as more macho than the men in her Cabinet, Major as the grey Pooter, Blair as the new trendy vicar. The Star's satirical portrayal of Boris is as a clown. At some semi-conscious level, that's how significant numbers of people see him. That's not happened in recent times, and it's not good.

    Also, most satirical alter egos have something positive about them. Maggie's strength, Major's plodding English decency, Blair's sense of belief that things could be better. But clowns? Clowns are stupid and frankly a bit scary.

    It's a very leading indicator, but one that should cause government supporters to stop and think.
    One thing that Trump was very good at was characterising an opponent with a phrase that eventually destroyed them..

    The question is does Clown work with Boris..
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,932
    Just turned on the football to see England passing from left to right as usual.
    Figured out the German goal is on the left.

    Typical England......
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    eek said:

    One thing that Trump was very good at was characterising an opponent with a phrase that eventually destroyed them..

    The question is does Clown work with Boris..
    Apart from Sleepy Joe that is.
    After 4 years of Trump that sounded mighty appealing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975

    Just turned on the football to see England passing from left to right as usual.
    Figured out the German goal is on the left.

    Typical England......

    No, they are doing OK. Much more positive than usual
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,666
    dixiedean said:

    Routine booing of other countries' anthem isn't freedom of expression.
    It is knee-jerk boorish unpleasantness which reflects badly upon each and every English person in the eyes of others.
    I assume that the England "fans" also booed their own players?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021

    No, they are doing OK. Much more positive than usual
    First 10 mins was awful.

    Since then, better.

    I wish I could share your optimism.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135
    edited June 2021

    The personification of Johnson as a clown was/is in no way original, but it is relentless, and rather like The Guardian's cartoons of John Major with his pants outside his trousers and his Spitting Image puppet as a grey man it might just get into the public's broader perception, and also get under Johnson's skin. I must admit each time I see him now I hear the Circus Theme in my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE
    The problem with hoping that will be his undoing is that's pretty much what people have thought of Boris as for about two decades, and in that time he has won the London Mayoralty twice, the referendum, the Tory leadership, and a big majority at a GE
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,080
    Fishing said:

    No the reason we'll outperform the EU macroeconomically in the medium term, if we do, is that we've retained control of our monetary and exchange rate policy, unlike most EU member states. In limiting significantly our ability to deregulate (we have the most interventionist government in ages), we've hamstrung ourselves. So we'll have to hope that other advantages offset the EU's advantages, e.g. of economies of scale in areas where the Single Market is reasonably complete. We'll have to see how it pans out.
    I'm not convinced giving the government monetary and exchange rate power correlates with better economic performance. Constraining the government's actions forces it is to affect the things that really matter, like regulation, taxation, etc.

    Indeed, I'd argue that world economic performance was better during the Bretton Woods period (and during most of the Gold Standard period) specifically because governments were constrained.

    In the words of PJ O'Rourke, giving money and power to the government is like giving whisky and car keys to teenagers.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,719

    I knew I was old when I told a young member of staff, who is a keen football fan

    'You haven't lived until you've watched an entire match on Ceefax.'

    I just got a blank stare, like 'What's Ceefax Grandad?'
    I felt old when I saw the grandson of a player I remember from the 80s make his international debut, albeit for a different country and at a different sport: Ian Botham grandson Jim Botham now playing rugby for Wales.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    TOPPING said:

    Thanks for this Andy apologies could you show me where those stats are? I did a quick google and found this

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/

    But that can't be the one you mean or I am reading it incorrectly.

    Thanks
    You can get the total number by age from the dashboard.
    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England gives the number for England; add the under-18s and you get a total of 6,070 0-17s hospitalised to date in England.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,996
    isam said:

    The problem with hoping that will be his undoing is that's pretty much what people have thought of Boris as for about two decades
    No, there was genuine anger from middle England last weekend.
    True, there's no evidence yet that it will have significant consequence, but it was definitely a step beyond the usual cheerful ridicule.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,080
    I'm getting ESPN coverage of the game.

    The commentators seem to know a little bit about "soccer".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,159
    Which side been playing best so far in the Germany vs England match?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,623
    The Daily Star has seen off Knobbo and Coco. Only Bozo left in their sights...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    Andy_JS said:

    Which side been playing best so far in the Germany vs England match?

    England and by a country mile.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,504
    Andy_JS said:

    Which side been playing best so far in the Germany vs England match?

    Nervy start by England, but they’re looking very good without the ball now. Hard for Germany to play through us.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,996
    The Germans are suddenly looking awfully English.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Poor header by Maguire, that was a great chance.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440

    Poor header by Maguire, that was a great chance.

    He knows I've backed him at 28/1 as FGS.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    One presumes politics chat has now ended.

    I’m not in the slightest bit interested in the football, unless it goes to penalty shoot out.

    Is it customary for English fans to boo the opposing team’s anthem, or is this just the post-Brexit “New Boorishness”?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,932
    Andy_JS said:

    Which side been playing best so far in the Germany vs England match?

    I'm quite surprised but England.
    Of course, plenty of time for us to screw it all up.
    It's not about who plays best, as we all know.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886

    He knows I've backed him at 28/1 as FGS.
    Which end?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440

    One presumes politics chat has now ended.

    I’m not in the slightest bit interested in the football, unless it goes to penalty shoot out.

    Is it customary for English fans to boo the opposing team’s anthem, or is this just the post-Brexit “New Boorishness”?

    Been going on for decades, along with the 'No Surrender To The IRA' chants.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440
    dixiedean said:

    Which end?
    The right end.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    Been going on for decades, along with the 'No Surrender To The IRA' chants.
    No wonder everyone hates England.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,554
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm not convinced giving the government monetary and exchange rate power correlates with better economic performance. Constraining the government's actions forces it is to affect the things that really matter, like regulation, taxation, etc.

    Indeed, I'd argue that world economic performance was better during the Bretton Woods period (and during most of the Gold Standard period) specifically because governments were constrained.

    In the words of PJ O'Rourke, giving money and power to the government is like giving whisky and car keys to teenagers.
    At least it's not alcopops and car keys - whisky is a taste that requires time to acquire.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    edited June 2021
    Pickford.
  • One presumes politics chat has now ended.

    I’m not in the slightest bit interested in the football, unless it goes to penalty shoot out.

    Is it customary for English fans to boo the opposing team’s anthem, or is this just the post-Brexit “New Boorishness”?

    Every teams supporters do it AFAIK
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,159
    Were the Wimbledon authorities trying to annoy everyone by scheduling Roger Federer at the same time as the football match? They could have had him playing at 1pm or 7pm instead of now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,442

    One presumes politics chat has now ended.

    I’m not in the slightest bit interested in the football, unless it goes to penalty shoot out.

    Is it customary for English fans to boo the opposing team’s anthem, or is this just the post-Brexit “New Boorishness”?

    Nope it’s happened forever and I hate it. I think the idiots believe it is ‘intimidating’ like going to Istanbul or something.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135
    Nigelb said:

    No, there was genuine anger from middle England last weekend.
    True, there's no evidence yet that it will have significant consequence, but it was definitely a step beyond the usual cheerful ridicule.
    Yeah sure, the Hancock story seemed to anger everyone, but the "Boris the Clown" meme has been failing his opponents for 15-20 years

    Actually my Labour supporting Dad is the only person I have heard speak up for Hancock, and that was because The Mirror said words to the effect of "How can such an ugly man have two women on the go" - what have looks got to do with it? Would it be ok if he looked like David Gandy?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    PMs have always been mocked, sure. But to cut through, the form of that mockery has to have a degree of "yeah, bang to rights" about it. Think of Maggie being lampooned as more macho than the men in her Cabinet, Major as the grey Pooter, Blair as the new trendy vicar. The Star's satirical portrayal of Boris is as a clown. At some semi-conscious level, that's how significant numbers of people see him. That's not happened in recent times, and it's not good.

    Also, most satirical alter egos have something positive about them. Maggie's strength, Major's plodding English decency, Blair's sense of belief that things could be better. But clowns? Clowns are stupid and frankly a bit scary.

    It's a very leading indicator, but one that should cause government supporters to stop and think.
    Boris's strength is his positivity and ability to make people smile and laugh. Something that dreary Keir doesn't have.

    So sure if his opponents want to characterise that as clownish, then I'm sure he can live with that. He plays it up with his ruffled hair etc.

    Its his strength, not his weakness. That you still don't get that even after he won an eighty seat majority and led us out of Europe says more about you than it does him.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    This idea has Sajid Javid written all over it.

    They did this earlier in the pandemic with "high value" travellers exempted from restrictions.

    I believe it was Shapps who announced it.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135

    He knows I've backed him at 28/1 as FGS.
    I've laid 33!
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,932
    Hmmmm. Just figured out the BBC iPlayer is two minutes behind.
    I'm not sure I like that.......
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    Ger ahead on xGoals atm 0.44 - 0.18
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440

    Every teams supporters do it AFAIK
    This booing of the anthem story from 2010 is my favourite, shows Scotland as the nation of eunuchs they are.

    The Scottish FA apologised to Liechtenstein on Wednesday after their national anthem was booed by the Scotland fans before a Euro 2012 Group I qualifier.

    The home side narrowly avoided their worst ever international result with a stoppage time winner from Stephen McManus in their 2-1 triumph in Tuesday’s match at Hampden Park.

    However, the SFA’s acting chief executive George Peat has said sorry to their opponents for the abuse directed at the Liechtenstein national anthem, which has the same tune as England’s anthem ‘God Save the Queen’.

    Peat said: “I was embarrassed and extremely disappointed by the disgraceful behaviour of some of our supporters during the Liechtenstein national anthem at Hampden Park last night.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-51365320100908
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Boring game, tbh

    Overhyped and crap compared to yestwrday
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    Kyle Walker MVP atm
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    England better team so far but need to take chances.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,335
    edited June 2021

    This booing of the anthem story from 2010 is my favourite, shows Scotland as the nation of eunuchs they are.

    The Scottish FA apologised to Liechtenstein on Wednesday after their national anthem was booed by the Scotland fans before a Euro 2012 Group I qualifier.

    The home side narrowly avoided their worst ever international result with a stoppage time winner from Stephen McManus in their 2-1 triumph in Tuesday’s match at Hampden Park.

    However, the SFA’s acting chief executive George Peat has said sorry to their opponents for the abuse directed at the Liechtenstein national anthem, which has the same tune as England’s anthem ‘God Save the Queen’.

    Peat said: “I was embarrassed and extremely disappointed by the disgraceful behaviour of some of our supporters during the Liechtenstein national anthem at Hampden Park last night.


    https://www.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-51365320100908
    They needed a stoppage time winner to beat Liechtenstein?! I thought conceding against San Marino was bad.
  • Dreadful defensive toss. Phillips, saka and Pickford excepted
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,849

    Hmmmm. Just figured out the BBC iPlayer is two minutes behind.
    I'm not sure I like that.......

    A bit less than a minute for me but they've dropped image quality a bit. At least it is watchable unlike ITV.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,623
    Is this where the data analytics say: Put it on the head of the big lad
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,407
    MattW said:

    Toff is CTT.

    Currently Targeted Tory. :smile:

    What's the equivalent for Lab / LD?
    Labour just accumulate Jags. We're going to have 46-Jags Butler soon!

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,159
    ping said:

    Boring game, tbh

    Especially after yesterday's matches.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,849
    edited June 2021
    It is worrying that German breaks look more dangerous than ours, even if there are fewer of them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,244
    isam said:

    I've laid 33!
    You are Nick Clegg and I claim my £5.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,504
    That’s red all day long.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    ping said:

    Boring game, tbh

    No it's not. England are playing at a hundred miles an hour. Trippier Saka, Phillips and McGuire, have been excellent. Kane, not so much
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Is this where the data analytics say: Put it on the head of the big lad

    Worked for Liverpool at the end of the season. The opposing team chose not to mark the 6'3" keeper who'd come up for the kick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,335

    Boris's strength is his positivity and ability to make people smile and laugh. Something that dreary Keir doesn't have.

    So sure if his opponents want to characterise that as clownish, then I'm sure he can live with that. He plays it up with his ruffled hair etc.

    Its his strength, not his weakness. That you still don't get that even after he won an eighty seat majority and led us out of Europe says more about you than it does him.
    Peoples' strengths can, in time, become their weakness. Confidence becomes arrogance. Consideration becomes vacillation. Decisiveness becomes hastiness. And so on.

    For Boris enough presently see his defining traits as positives.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    Kalvin Phillips looking every inch a Leeds Utd player
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:

    Were the Wimbledon authorities trying to annoy everyone by scheduling Roger Federer at the same time as the football match? They could have had him playing at 1pm or 7pm instead of now.

    I think it's a great idea. Something one can actually enjoy, rather than the miserable spectacle of struggle followed by inevitable failure.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440
    tlg86 said:

    That’s red all day long.

    He's a Dirty Leeds player, what do you expect?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    How did he not score?
    Get DCL warmed up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,159
    Most teams other than Germany would probably have given away a penalty in that situation.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    tlg86 said:

    I'll tell you what has changed. Homework and emails. My poor sister is inundated with emails from her daughter's primary school. Her daughter is five and has a homework book. I get that they know that what happens at home is as important if not more important, but it is incredibly stressful.
    I wouldn’t say that we’re “inundated” with emails, but I would judge that we get at least twenty times more communications from the school as my parents got for me.

    I actually appreciate the amount of information I get, but I don’t have a “problem” child; apparently those parents truly are inundated with communications and meetings.

    What worries me is the working environment for the teachers. I really would prefer that they just got on with their core job.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    How was there no goal then !?

    Need to take chances to score.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,975
    Kane channelling Jeff Astle at Mexico '70.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,849
    edited June 2021

    Is this where the data analytics say: Put it on the head of the big lad

    Trouble is there is no-one to get the ball to Kane, except perhaps for the goalkeeper.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440
    dixiedean said:

    How did he not score?
    Get DCL warmed up.

    He's not on the bench.

    Kane = Jason Lee.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135
    Gosh England are a boring team to watch. Kane was unlucky there
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Couldn’t score in a brothel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440
    Is it me or Jermaine Jenas calling Hummels 'Max Hummels'?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,657
    kle4 said:

    For Boris enough presently see his defining traits as positives.

    Except the Irish.

    Or fishermen.

    Or farmers.

    Or Brexity pub owners.

    Or Brexity rock stars.

    BoZo eventually fucks over everybody he ever made a promise to.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135

    Is it me or Jermaine Jenas calling Hummels 'Max Hummels'?

    I thought just that
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,849
    Half-time betting.

    England 2.8
    Germany 3.7
    Draw 2.64

    To qualify:
    England 1.84
    Germany 2.16
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,080
    isam said:

    Gosh England are a boring team to watch. Kane was unlucky there

    He was invisible for the other 44 minutes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,324
    Kane has to go. That's his job. He failed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,096
    isam said:

    Gosh England are a boring team to watch. Kane was unlucky there

    Inch perfect defending by Hummels
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    edited June 2021
    Anyone not following the football, and interested in the NIP (ok it’s probably just me), it looks like the Brexiters haven’t given up.

    Owen Paterson links to an “expert” report claiming that the NIP should be abolished:

    https://twitter.com/owenpaterson/status/1409449381279977472?s=21

    TLDR
    The NIP is unjust and has no democratic consent.
    Britain signed it at a moment of weakness because of Remainer games.*
    It’s not clear if it was understood, anyway.**
    Report recommends scrapping it and replacing it with a technological solution.***
    Suggests that should a trade war ensue, the U.K. is well placed to ride it out given the respective balance of trade.****

    *Boris set the time-table and established the “Deal vs No Deal” cliff-edge as he thought it maximised British leverage.

    **The govt curtailed debate on the Withdrawal Bill which includes the NIP and suggested longer scrutiny was not required.

    ***No clear tech solution has ever been identified

    ****A rehash of the “German auto manufacturers will ensure we get a good deal” argument which proved false.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,080

    Half-time betting.

    England 2.8
    Germany 3.7
    Draw 2.64

    To qualify:
    England 1.84
    Germany 2.16

    Those look about right.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,335
    Scott_xP said:

    Except the Irish.

    Or fishermen.

    Or farmers.

    Or Brexity pub owners.

    Or Brexity rock stars.

    BoZo eventually fucks over everybody he ever made a promise to.
    Congratulations for missing the key words of 'enough' and 'presently' in the bit quoted. It didn't say everyone did, or that it was lasting.

    The implication was that, in time, enough will not see him positively, but currently enough do.

    Also note 'enough' does not need to be a majority.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,324
    This is a boring, lacklustre German team. We are struggling to create chances, and we have oodles of talent

    Southgate must carry this can
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    Except the Irish.

    Or fishermen.

    Or farmers.

    Or Brexity pub owners.

    Or Brexity rock stars.

    BoZo eventually fucks over everybody he ever made a promise to.
    … and the Scottish Tories just bend over and take one for England.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    isam said:

    Gosh England are a boring team to watch. Kane was unlucky there

    They are embarrassingly awful. We're playing so many defensive players that we don't have enough players who can pass forwards to put good attacks together. We've not even defended that well. Germany have made better runs in behind with good passes to pick them out.

    The commentators complain about Kane, but you're not going to have much joy as a striker when the team plays with a back seven.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    I'm reasonably well off in terms of income, and would be pleased to pay more tax, but only as part of a collective effort by democratic decision, as I did in other countries. I wouldn't pay a voluntary tax or bother with the lottery - I simply give away what I don't need. That doesn't seem to me inconsistent with favouring higher taxes in general.

    The classic example is Scandinavia, where the majority view is still that it's fine to earn a lot, on the understanding that up to half goes to fund excellent public services and a really strong safety net if you fall on hard times. That has nothing to do with nationalisation (which is not part of the model) or envy of high-earners - if you earn megabucks and then pay your share, fine.
    What exactly is 'your share' of what somebody else has earned?

    Scandinavia and Sweden in particular exultantly run nations, but they are not particular high tax, they just don't camouflage there tax in things like employers NI or employees NI, and a modest cooperation 21% below OECD average and below what we will have soon. there Income tax looks and overall they pay a bit more tax than us, but not a lot, they also have a state pension that is increases with how much tax you have paid over your life, so it a more like a compulsory private pension.

    They are successful economically, largely because they are low and sensibly regulated.

    They have good public service because they have completion in them, they have school chose, with funding following the child to the school there parents what, and there heath system is not one big monolith, but run by the local regens, who try to out do each other, and many of them contract out provision of services to private company's.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440
    isam said:

    I thought just that
    Twitter says our hearing is fine and Jenas is a tool.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,657
    So awesome seeing @MarkCavendish prove the doubters wrong today 🤫😁 #TDF2021
    https://twitter.com/chrisfroome/status/1409910531356598275
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,195
    Scott_xP said:

    Except the Irish.

    Or fishermen.

    Or farmers.

    Or Brexity pub owners.

    Or Brexity rock stars.

    BoZo eventually fucks over everybody he ever made a promise to.
    That's the point.
    Only a fool would underestimate Johnson's ability to make a brilliant first impression.

    Only an utter fool would say that his first impression reflects the likely long-term relationship.

    A clown for five minutes at a circus might be entertaining.
    Living with a clown would be... terrifying.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,657

    Living with a clown would be... terrifying.

    The Good Place...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,931
    Leon said:

    Kane has to go. That's his job. He failed.

    He may have been offside but he has to score

    He is hopeless in this competition

    150 million - really
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,407

    Anyone not following the football, and interested in the NIP (ok it’s probably just me), it looks like the Brexiters haven’t given up.

    Owen Paterson links to an “expert” report claiming that the NIP should be abolished:

    https://twitter.com/owenpaterson/status/1409449381279977472?s=21

    TLDR
    The NIP is unjust and has no democratic consent.
    Britain signed it at a moment of weakness because of Remainer games.*
    It’s not clear if it was understood, anyway.**
    Report recommends scrapping it and replacing it with a technological solution.***
    Suggests that should a trade war ensue, the U.K. is well placed to ride it out given the respective balance of trade.****

    *Boris set the time-table and established the “Deal vs No Deal” cliff-edge as he thought it maximised British leverage.

    **The govt curtailed debate on the Withdrawal Bill which includes the NIP and suggested longer scrutiny was not required.

    ***No clear tech solution has ever been identified

    ****A rehash of the “German auto manufacturers will ensure we get a good deal” argument which proved false.

    Owen Paterson wasn't always as foolish as he has recently appeared. He's got some work to do though.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,440
    This

    Analysis: “That Kane miss at the end of the half is like a parody of Gascoigne not reaching the ball in 1996,” writes Kari Tulinius. “He had the goal at his mercy but moved about as fast as a turtle who can’t be bothered to eat one more lettuce leaf.”

    A harsh assessment but a pretty fair one. Kane had just nine touches of the ball in that half and has contributed little or nothing to England’s cause. He doesn’t look fit and that miss just before the break suggest he’s low on confidence too.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135
    edited June 2021

    They are embarrassingly awful. We're playing so many defensive players that we don't have enough players who can pass forwards to put good attacks together. We've not even defended that well. Germany have made better runs in behind with good passes to pick them out.

    The commentators complain about Kane, but you're not going to have much joy as a striker when the team plays with a back seven.
    If we fail to qualify having been so boring to watch in all 4 games, it really will be frustrating, given we have not picked Foden and Grealish. Foden is possibly our best player, he is an absolute star.

    I think if you play three centre backs, wing backs and two defensive mids, the wing backs have to be wingers not full backs. (Saka and Sterling should be the Wing backs perhaps?) Or if the wing backs are basic full backs, one of the defensive mids has to be a creator (Foden alongside Rice or Phillips)

    But to have three centre backs, two full backs, and two Cms who could bothcover at Centre back is ridiculously cautious
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,080
    BigRich said:

    What exactly is 'your share' of what somebody else has earned?

    Scandinavia and Sweden in particular exultantly run nations, but they are not particular high tax, they just don't camouflage there tax in things like employers NI or employees NI, and a modest cooperation 21% below OECD average and below what we will have soon. there Income tax looks and overall they pay a bit more tax than us, but not a lot, they also have a state pension that is increases with how much tax you have paid over your life, so it a more like a compulsory private pension.

    They are successful economically, largely because they are low and sensibly regulated.

    They have good public service because they have completion in them, they have school chose, with funding following the child to the school there parents what, and there heath system is not one big monolith, but run by the local regens, who try to out do each other, and many of them contract out provision of services to private company's.

    To be fair, Sweden, Denmark and Finland are all in the top five countries on a tax take as percent of GDP calculation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_to_GDP_ratio
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,931

    They are embarrassingly awful. We're playing so many defensive players that we don't have enough players who can pass forwards to put good attacks together. We've not even defended that well. Germany have made better runs in behind with good passes to pick them out.

    The commentators complain about Kane, but you're not going to have much joy as a striker when the team plays with a back seven.
    Both teams are not up to the standards of this competition

    But then neither is Southgate

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,407

    … and the Scottish Tories just bend over and take one for England.
    The one thing you know for certain about Scottish Independence is that is not about the fish, or the farms, or the pubs.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    … and the Scottish Tories just bend over and take one for England.
    Indeed, IIRC they promised to make sure he would never become PM, or am I misremembering?
  • GnudGnud Posts: 298
    edited June 2021
    BigRich said:

    What exactly is 'your share' of what somebody else has earned?

    Scandinavia and Sweden in particular exultantly run nations, but they are not particular high tax, they just don't camouflage there tax in things like employers NI or employees NI, and a modest cooperation 21% below OECD average and below what we will have soon. there Income tax looks and overall they pay a bit more tax than us, but not a lot, they also have a state pension that is increases with how much tax you have paid over your life, so it a more like a compulsory private pension.

    They are successful economically, largely because they are low and sensibly regulated.

    They have good public service because they have completion in them, they have school chose, with funding following the child to the school there parents what, and there heath system is not one big monolith, but run by the local regens, who try to out do each other, and many of them contract out provision of services to private company's.
    You didn't mention the "Wallenberg grip".

    Despite this, Sweden has a low Gini coefficient.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    There seems to be an idea that the winner of this ought to make the final. I beg to differ.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,324
    isam said:

    If we fail to qualify having been so boring to watch in all 4 games, it really will be frustrating, given we have not picked Foden and Grealish. Foden is possibly our best player, he is an absolute star.

    I think if you play three centre backs, wing backs and two defensive mids, the wing backs have to be wingers not full backs. (Saka and Sterling should be the Wing backs perhaps?) Or if the wing backs are basic full backs, one of the defensive mids has to be a creator (Foden alongside Rice or Phillips)

    But to have three centre backs, two full backs, and two Cms who could bothcover at Centre back is ridiculously cautious
    The worst of it is that, if and when we lose, and I believe we will lose, Southgate will somehow keep his job
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,525
    7,091 cases in Spain today. It looks like the Delta wave is rapidly growing on the continent too.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    isam said:

    If we fail to qualify having been so boring to watch in all 4 games, it really will be frustrating, given we have not picked Foden and Grealish. Foden is possibly our best player, he is an absolute star.

    I think if you play three centre backs, wing backs and two defensive mids, the wing backs have to be wingers not full backs. (Saka and Sterling should be the Wing backs perhaps?) Or if the wing backs are basic full backs, one of the defensive mids has to be a creator (Foden alongside Rice or Phillips)

    But to have three centre backs, two full backs, and two Cms who could bothcover at Centre back is ridiculously cautious
    I know Euro '96 was a lifetime ago, but we had a genuine winger in Anderton as one of our wing-backs in that competition. The balance in the team is all wrong.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,749
    Is Luke Shaw playing?
    Didn't think so.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,272
    You guys must be watching a different match to me. Apart from first ten minutes England has been the better side. Playing really well I think - better than the first three matches added together. Saka and Walker particularly good.

    I've just backed England 2-0.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Meanwhile, over in SW19, Federer is struggling.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,135
    Leon said:

    The worst of it is that, if and when we lose, and I believe we will lose, Southgate will somehow keep his job
    Jenas has just said it - Shaw off, Saka LWB and Foden, Sancho or Grealish on
This discussion has been closed.