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Now a quarantine exemption plan for toffs – the rest of us will have to suffer – politicalbetting.co

SystemSystem Posts: 12,158
edited June 2021 in General
Now a quarantine exemption plan for toffs – the rest of us will have to suffer – politicalbetting.com

The government have announced that senior executives can temporarily leave quarantine, in England, if they are undertaking activities with a significantly economic benefit.One rule for the elites, another for everyone else. pic.twitter.com/xlwUgKGKnT

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,113
    DavidL said:

    Scottish Government modellers warn Covid cases could hit 100,000 a week by mid-July

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1409792982203703300?s=20

    What we really, really need is for these numpties to be offering up bets so we can take some money off them and they learn to be less stupid.
    This is the graph from the study quoted in the Herald. It's the worst kind of shitty reporting.

    They even compare 'may hit 100,000 per week', with a current level of 3,000 per day to make it sound bigger.



    It's all up there with media squeezing out sensationalist reports of "Reproduction Rate could be 1", when the scientists were reporting "0.7 to 1.0", with the central tendency around 0.85.


  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    A further reminder that restrictions are functionally over and the July 19th decision is just about continuing to torture pub owners and engaged couples rather than any impact on a deadly pandemic.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767
    Maybe this is part of the long-term plan.
    Maybe the behavioural scientists have decided that we will collectively baulk at the idea of freedom - so the idea is to try and introduce such contempt for the idea of the restrictions that anger with them overcomes fear.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,113
    edited June 2021
    Oh, I made 2nd and 6th.

    Better than all the rest of the Five Nations Rugby Tournament of Blessed Memory did in the football.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Scottish Government modellers warn Covid cases could hit 100,000 a week by mid-July

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1409792982203703300?s=20

    What we really, really need is for these numpties to be offering up bets so we can take some money off them and they learn to be less stupid.
    This is the graph from the study quoted in the Herald. It's the worst kind of shitty reporting.

    They even compare 'may hit 100,000 per week', with a current level of 3,000 per day to make it sound bigger.



    It's all up there with media squeezing out sensationalist reports of "Reproduction Rate could be 1", when the scientists were reporting "0.7 to 1.0", with the central tendency around 0.85.


    3,000 a day to 100,000 a week is an R0 of 5 which while possible feels rather improbably given vaccination rates.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    I mostly move in moderate circles. As a Lib Dem most of my friends are reasonably caring and moderate people. My wife worked on the NHS front line throughout the crisis. But they all feel enough is enough. This finishes on July 19th regardless of the government's opinion.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Scottish Government modellers warn Covid cases could hit 100,000 a week by mid-July

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1409792982203703300?s=20

    What we really, really need is for these numpties to be offering up bets so we can take some money off them and they learn to be less stupid.
    This is the graph from the study quoted in the Herald. It's the worst kind of shitty reporting.

    They even compare 'may hit 100,000 per week', with a current level of 3,000 per day to make it sound bigger.



    It's all up there with media squeezing out sensationalist reports of "Reproduction Rate could be 1", when the scientists were reporting "0.7 to 1.0", with the central tendency around 0.85.


    3,000 a day to 100,000 a week is an R0 of 5 which while possible feels rather improbably given vaccination rates.
    R0 of 5-6 is roughly the base rate of Indian variant....so given 80% of the population are / will shortly be vaccinated, seems nonsense. The virus won't be able to find enough people to replicate at an R of 5.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    My dad's been complaining about football carrying on during the pandemic. He was shocked that spectators were allowed to stay at Wimbledon when they closed the roof. It's starting to really wind him up.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,284
    Surely this is a joke? Can't wait to see how they defend this one...
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    tlg86 said:

    My dad's been complaining about football carrying on during the pandemic. He was shocked that spectators were allowed to stay at Wimbledon when they closed the roof. It's starting to really wind him up.

    I'm sure he's lovely really, but you don't paint a very attractive picture.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    Fenman said:

    I mostly move in moderate circles. As a Lib Dem most of my friends are reasonably caring and moderate people. My wife worked on the NHS front line throughout the crisis. But they all feel enough is enough. This finishes on July 19th regardless of the government's opinion.

    I think it is fairly clear that is the government opinion. I suppose the only worry is the scientists show Boris some scary graph based on a totally bollocks model and he shits his pants again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Brady is an interesting one. His success at quarterbacking NFL isn't I think because he's the most talented (His draft was famously terrible) but because he does precisely what's needed when it's needed. He's basically got the world's best quarterback analytics % brain built in.
    Teams don't find this sort of player that often nowadays because they rely on the stats team to direct around selecting for raw talent; but it still has a massive value - it won't show at a combine mind.

    I do wonder about all this. The West Indies of the 70's happened upon half a dozen world class pace bowlers. And maintained that through the end of the 80's. Every one and their dog wanted to be a pace bowler, and every other country tried to copy them.
    When Shane Warne emerged, he came up against batsmen who'd barely played spin, let alone a leggy, and he made hay. As did Murali.
    I wonder if Warne would ever had got a run out as a pro with analytics telling you you could only take wickets bowling at 85 mph +.
    It is happening in baseball, where the hitter for average is disappearing. As is the variety in the game.
    Mike Trout waves......the highest paid player in baseball....

    I don't know enough about baseball, but it sounds a bit like people bemoaning the loss of the brilliant mid range shooters in basketball (who weren't as good at 3 points). Its been shown it is a statistically inferior approach. Having somebody who can shot 35-40% of 3-points is worth just so much more over the course of a season.
    Trout is a bit of an exception though. He has 4 of the 5 assets. His only drawback being an ordinary, though not sub par, fielder.
    My worry is at a younger age. If everyone is looking for the same kind of player, only that kind of player will be produced. Making the sport very samey. Until the fashion and the numbers change.
    I'm a great fan of analytics, tbh.
    But I'd like to keep mavericks in sport if possible.
    The real maverick that has gone out of baseball, the knuckle ball pitcher. There is something incredible that rather than 100mph, some chubby bloke throws it like he is a dad throwing to his kid and these superstars can't hit it.

    However, although I think analytics has played a part, my understanding is that throwing knuckleball is actually incredibly difficult to perfect (like leg-spin but more so) and actually very taxing on the hands. So it really isn't something that people even really try.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Bloody bonkers. It's like they looked at the public anger over Hancock's antics and decided that it would be a really good idea to wind the public up even more.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    Fenman said:

    I mostly move in moderate circles. As a Lib Dem most of my friends are reasonably caring and moderate people. My wife worked on the NHS front line throughout the crisis. But they all feel enough is enough. This finishes on July 19th regardless of the government's opinion.

    I think it is fairly clear that is the government opinion. I suppose the only worry is the scientists show Boris some scary graph based on a totally bollocks model and he shits his pants again.
    The covid quad is likely to be split 50:50 in that case now that Saj 'Open up' Javid has joined. I guess PM would make the decider based on the state of his underpants.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767
    FPT:
    MrEd said:

    HYUFD said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 42% (-2)
    LAB: 33% (+3)
    LDM: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 5% (=)
    SNP: 4% (=)

    Via @SavantaComRes, 25-27 Jun. Changes w/ 18-20 Jun.


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1409838493292011521?s=20

    I think the Torie would take that. Still 42% despite all the terrible headlines and delay of Freedom day / rising cases / etc.

    I genuinely thought they would have seen serious drop over the past few weeks.
    It would be a 1.25% swing from Tory to Labour since 2019 though which on UNS would therefore see Labour retain Batley and Spen on Thursday.

    However how many votes Galloway and the far right get will also be pivotal there
    Again I think given how poorly at times the government have handled COVID, Boris exposed as not even a poundshop Churchill, two big scandals over breaking the rules, the underlying consistent stories of some dodgy dealings, Gavin Williamson being Gavin Williamson, a 1.25% swing at this stage in the parliament is a miracle for the Tories.

    Most government have been shedding votes by now.
    I think the tories are shedding votes in the sense that some tory voters are simpy not turning out. Chesham and Amersham showed this, and I wonder if that's behind their drift in B&S too. Tory no-show.

    We are far from 1997 territory yet, but the tories need to find out why and quickly.
    I think there is no urgency and / or a sense of not letting them get complacent amongst some of their voters. Let’s be honest though, who sees SKS as credible?
    Starmer's credibility has been hindered throughout the pandemic by his 'criticise the government then vote for whatever they propose' approach.
    Also, Jonathan Ashworth's current approach of trying to vaguely cast doubt on unlocking without proposing any alternative strategy is, to be frank, really getting my goat.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Fenman said:

    I mostly move in moderate circles. As a Lib Dem most of my friends are reasonably caring and moderate people. My wife worked on the NHS front line throughout the crisis. But they all feel enough is enough. This finishes on July 19th regardless of the government's opinion.

    I think it is fairly clear that is the government opinion. I suppose the only worry is the scientists show Boris some scary graph based on a totally bollocks model and he shits his pants again.
    The covid quad is likely to be split 50:50 in that case now that Saj 'Open up' Javid has joined. I guess PM would make the decider based on the state of his underpants.
    The problem is that labour is no alternative.

    Listen to their Health Shadow. We would never get out under them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    Yay!

    Another exemption for me!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173
    maaarsh said:

    tlg86 said:

    My dad's been complaining about football carrying on during the pandemic. He was shocked that spectators were allowed to stay at Wimbledon when they closed the roof. It's starting to really wind him up.

    I'm sure he's lovely really, but you don't paint a very attractive picture.
    To be honest, he enjoys moaning about the government, so he's happy really. And his local has stopped giving a f*** so he doesn't have to worry about masks when he goes for a pint.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    Only Italy stands in their way....and Italy struggled to put away Austria.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    On topic.

    Terrible idea.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    I'd dispute the notion that senior executives are toffs.

    Some of them are working class, or the grandchildren of immigrant, hardly toffs.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Scottish Government modellers warn Covid cases could hit 100,000 a week by mid-July

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1409792982203703300?s=20

    What we really, really need is for these numpties to be offering up bets so we can take some money off them and they learn to be less stupid.
    This is the graph from the study quoted in the Herald. It's the worst kind of shitty reporting.

    They even compare 'may hit 100,000 per week', with a current level of 3,000 per day to make it sound bigger.



    It's all up there with media squeezing out sensationalist reports of "Reproduction Rate could be 1", when the scientists were reporting "0.7 to 1.0", with the central tendency around 0.85.


    Wheesht! They were enjoying their Jock bashing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    I have.

    All things being equal the winner of the England v. Germany match gets to the final.

    In a two horse race you'd be happy with a 7/1 bet.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    FFS...all reports are that waistcoat is going to be packing the defence, 3 centre backs, at least 2 defensive midfielders, no Grealish, no Foden (and of course no Sancho).

    Most other teams would be working out how to maximise the effectiveness of these world class talents, waistcoat sticks them on the bench.

    While the Chinese piss themselves at how poor the UK approach to security is, most other countries must piss themselves at finally England have players with world class ability and technique and they don't use them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 2021

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    I have.

    All things being equal the winner of the England v. Germany match gets to the final.

    In a two horse race you'd be happy with a 7/1 bet.
    7/1 to win the final not to simply get to it. They are 3/1 to reach the final if you think they just have to win tonight.

    Remarkably, despite Spain failing to win their group, they are now the 13/8 favourites (until 23:00 tonight) to reach the final. I backed them at 9/2 before a ball was kicked thinking that they would be in the position Sweden are in now.

    But I have a horrible feeling Switzerland might beat Spain. If I were Luis Enrique, I'd make the players watch highlights of the game in 2010.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    England win tonight. You heard it here first.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    TOPPING said:

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    England win tonight. You heard it here first.
    Given all the media reports today, Southgate is going to be parking the bus. Against a sodding German team who have an aging / slow and shitty defence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949
    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    I have.

    All things being equal the winner of the England v. Germany match gets to the final.

    In a two horse race you'd be happy with a 7/1 bet.
    At the moment it is a 14 horse race
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    At least Gareth Southgate won't be taking any penalties tonight
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Boris Johnson 'aggressively' ignoring Wales' parliament, Mark Drakeford says

    "Too often we see the UK government act in an aggressively unilateral way, claiming to act on behalf of the whole UK, but without regard for the status of the nations and the democratic mandates of their governments."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57639735.amp
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    Leading German sports magazine Kicker: "This English team do not appear stable, they move forward with difficulty, as only two goals prove. Therefore, the chances for the German team in Wembley are 50:50 despite the weak display against Hungary."

    They aren't wrong....
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,113
    edited June 2021
    This sounds like one to help potential inward investors - people talking about Gigafactories and the like.

    Not quite sure of the allegation that it will 'benefit Tory MPs', as it is for people coming here. That claim seems overenthusiastic.

    But I'm sure the politico-chimpanzee-tea-party will be all over it.

    Wonder if Angela HoofinMouth will be on this?

    I remain unconvinced by this Government's PR abilities.

    ---------------------
    Here's the wording:

    Applies to:
    Certain senior executives (board level or equivalent) travelling to England who would be more likely than not to bring significant economic benefit to the UK as a result of the exempt activity.

    Senior executives are classed as bringing ‘significant economic benefit’ if the work they are doing has a greater than 50% chance of creating or preserving at least 500 UK-based jobs in either:

    an existing UK-based business which has at least 500 employees
    a new UK business within 2 years of the date of their arrival in the UK
    Senior executives are only exempt if the business activity requires their physical presence and cannot be done remotely or by anyone who would not need to quarantine.

    The senior executive wishing to use the exemption must notify the UK government prior to doing so. They must do this using the business, jobs and investment exemption form.

    Only individuals who have received a letter from the UK government confirming that they meet the criteria for the exemption, based on the information provided, will be able to use the exemption. This letter must be obtained before travelling to the UK and presented to Border Force officials upon arrival.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949

    TOPPING said:

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    England win tonight. You heard it here first.
    Given all the media reports today, Southgate is going to be parking the bus. Against a sodding German team who have an aging / slow and shitty defence.
    My thinking is that individually the players have oodles of ability. For some reason, pulling on the England shirt has drained whatever energy or determination from them. Against Germany there is nothing to lose and they can let their creative juices run free and play like they don't give a f**k.

    Parking the bus will be the wrong approach as Germany only need one or two chances and then where are you.

    Just like Deontay Wilder vs Fury. Wilder only needs one shot and it's over. Oh. Hang on...

    Anyway - England to win tonight, at pathetic odds, that said.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    Sri Lanka were headed for a decent total then they showed their rubbishness.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Speaker says government should just follow its own rules on making statements to Parliament first....

    If ministers choose to make important statement outside the chamber first they must not be surprised that I will grant urgent questions on those matters - in fact I am just going to continue to on the basis there may be a statement says the Speaker


    https://twitter.com/PARLYapp/status/1409851454467215361?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    Sri Lanka going well in the cricket again....be all over before the footy.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    This idea has Sajid Javid written all over it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977

    At least Gareth Southgate won't be taking any penalties tonight

    The guy who saved Southgate’s 96 penalty is... currently Germany’s goalkeeping coach. https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1409810038919737348/photo/1
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,660

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    I have.

    All things being equal the winner of the England v. Germany match gets to the final.

    In a two horse race you'd be happy with a 7/1 bet.
    All things being equal, Wigan would never have won the FA cup.

    Knockout football is weird.

    Has anyone done an analysis of whether the favourite team wins more often in league games cf knockout games?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Bloody bonkers. It's like they looked at the public anger over Hancock's antics and decided that it would be a really good idea to wind the public up even more.

    Why? People vote for them anyway, as Buckland pointed out when challenged with evidence of shit government "we're really popular actually".
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    This is an important concession by both parties.

    The EU has conceded a further extension of the current exemptions.

    The U.K. has conceded:
    a) that it was/is in the EU’s power to deny an extension
    b) that the extension is there to allow Northern Irish retailers to source locally or from the Republic, in preference to U.K. supply chains.

    The U.K. is slowly conceding the reality of a customs/regulatory border between GB and NI, long after have conceded it legally.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,113
    Scott_xP said:

    At least Gareth Southgate won't be taking any penalties tonight

    The guy who saved Southgate’s 96 penalty is... currently Germany’s goalkeeping coach. https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1409810038919737348/photo/1
    Did anyone go and comfort Southgate when he missed?

    (Thinking of the Frenchman the other day)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
    Sounds like those Labour types who moaned about Margaret Thatcher for a full 15 years after her demise.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    edited June 2021
    Utterly stupid idea - what idiot came up with that?

    What counts as "significant economic benefit?

    Why would the other parties want to meet with you anyway - I would refuse a face to face in those circumstances
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Taking back control-
    Lorry driver shortage: UK government and retailers in emergency talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/lorry-driver-shortage-uk-government-and-retailers-in-emergency-talks-covid-brexit
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    I have.

    All things being equal the winner of the England v. Germany match gets to the final.

    In a two horse race you'd be happy with a 7/1 bet.
    All things being equal, Wigan would never have won the FA cup.

    Knockout football is weird.

    Has anyone done an analysis of whether the favourite team wins more often in league games cf knockout games?
    As a Norwich City fan, we always prefer to "concentrate on the league"
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    This govt looks more corrupt than any before it in living memory.

    In what private company can one appoint an unqualified lover(?) as aide, then push her up to sit on the board that is supposed to be overseeing your performance?

    Banana republic stuff.

    I see they have finally conceded that Matt Hancock used a private email account, 24 hours after denying it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
    Really? Really?

    They existed well before Blair.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    MattW said:

    This sounds like one to help potential inward investors - people talking about Gigafactories and the like.

    Not quite sure of the allegation that it will 'benefit Tory MPs', as it is for people coming here. That claim seems overenthusiastic.

    But I'm sure the politico-chimpanzee-tea-party will be all over it.

    Wonder if Angela HoofinMouth will be on this?

    I remain unconvinced by this Government's PR abilities.

    ---------------------
    Here's the wording:

    Applies to:
    Certain senior executives (board level or equivalent) travelling to England who would be more likely than not to bring significant economic benefit to the UK as a result of the exempt activity.

    Senior executives are classed as bringing ‘significant economic benefit’ if the work they are doing has a greater than 50% chance of creating or preserving at least 500 UK-based jobs in either:

    an existing UK-based business which has at least 500 employees
    a new UK business within 2 years of the date of their arrival in the UK
    Senior executives are only exempt if the business activity requires their physical presence and cannot be done remotely or by anyone who would not need to quarantine.

    The senior executive wishing to use the exemption must notify the UK government prior to doing so. They must do this using the business, jobs and investment exemption form.

    Only individuals who have received a letter from the UK government confirming that they meet the criteria for the exemption, based on the information provided, will be able to use the exemption. This letter must be obtained before travelling to the UK and presented to Border Force officials upon arrival.

    Ah - so pretty different than the header claimed then
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
    Sounds like those Labour types who moaned about Margaret Thatcher for a full 15 years after her demise.
    Listen, I’m still blaming the Tories for the Suez crisis.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    The current Sri Lankan batsmen cannot run.

    It's like watching Boycott and Hussain.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    edited June 2021
    The yobs threatening Witty is the just the latest little fizz on the dynamite cord set alight some years ago by the Brexiters.

    Saboteurs, enemies of the people etc.
    The inflammatory language of treachery has real world consequences; it is has now entered the political lexicon and until the lid is firmly sealed on Johnson’s regime it won’t disappear.

    (And it might need more than that - viz Trump and the Republicans).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    My prediction for tonight.
    It wouldn't be as entertaining as last night.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021
    Floater said:

    MattW said:

    This sounds like one to help potential inward investors - people talking about Gigafactories and the like.

    Not quite sure of the allegation that it will 'benefit Tory MPs', as it is for people coming here. That claim seems overenthusiastic.

    But I'm sure the politico-chimpanzee-tea-party will be all over it.

    Wonder if Angela HoofinMouth will be on this?

    I remain unconvinced by this Government's PR abilities.

    ---------------------
    Here's the wording:

    Applies to:
    Certain senior executives (board level or equivalent) travelling to England who would be more likely than not to bring significant economic benefit to the UK as a result of the exempt activity.

    Senior executives are classed as bringing ‘significant economic benefit’ if the work they are doing has a greater than 50% chance of creating or preserving at least 500 UK-based jobs in either:

    an existing UK-based business which has at least 500 employees
    a new UK business within 2 years of the date of their arrival in the UK
    Senior executives are only exempt if the business activity requires their physical presence and cannot be done remotely or by anyone who would not need to quarantine.

    The senior executive wishing to use the exemption must notify the UK government prior to doing so. They must do this using the business, jobs and investment exemption form.

    Only individuals who have received a letter from the UK government confirming that they meet the criteria for the exemption, based on the information provided, will be able to use the exemption. This letter must be obtained before travelling to the UK and presented to Border Force officials upon arrival.

    Ah - so pretty different than the header claimed then
    Didn't Elon Musk turn up the other week, came for a day or two and then left. He obviously clearly didn't quarantine. So is this even a totally new rule?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Lorry driver shortage: UK government and retailers in emergency talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/lorry-driver-shortage-uk-government-and-retailers-in-emergency-talks-covid-brexit

    I don’t agree with @Philip_Thompson and assorted other drawbridge brexiteers on much, but this is one area where they have a point.

    The government should not manipulate the market to prevent wage rises. It’s a good thing for the industry to recalibrate to domestic employment, higher wages and slightly higher costs.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
    Not just death, though, is it?
    The probability of them being so seriously ill that they get hospitalised isn't trivial.
    Nor is the chance of chronic illness and potential long-term organ damage.
    They're not at the level where we can see any realistic chance of the NHS being overwhelmed by such, but we can't really dismiss the concern out of hand.

    Unless they authorise use of vaccines for the under-18s very rapidly and get a whole load more supply, I can't see them getting jabbed in time, so it's not really plausible for them to be protected prior to opening up on the 19th. I can understand some being very worried about that, but it's not likely to cause any realistic delay, I wouldn't have thought. The schools breaking up should help a lot by limiting spread, though.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Floater said:

    MattW said:

    This sounds like one to help potential inward investors - people talking about Gigafactories and the like.

    Not quite sure of the allegation that it will 'benefit Tory MPs', as it is for people coming here. That claim seems overenthusiastic.

    But I'm sure the politico-chimpanzee-tea-party will be all over it.

    Wonder if Angela HoofinMouth will be on this?

    I remain unconvinced by this Government's PR abilities.

    ---------------------
    Here's the wording:

    Applies to:
    Certain senior executives (board level or equivalent) travelling to England who would be more likely than not to bring significant economic benefit to the UK as a result of the exempt activity.

    Senior executives are classed as bringing ‘significant economic benefit’ if the work they are doing has a greater than 50% chance of creating or preserving at least 500 UK-based jobs in either:

    an existing UK-based business which has at least 500 employees
    a new UK business within 2 years of the date of their arrival in the UK
    Senior executives are only exempt if the business activity requires their physical presence and cannot be done remotely or by anyone who would not need to quarantine.

    The senior executive wishing to use the exemption must notify the UK government prior to doing so. They must do this using the business, jobs and investment exemption form.

    Only individuals who have received a letter from the UK government confirming that they meet the criteria for the exemption, based on the information provided, will be able to use the exemption. This letter must be obtained before travelling to the UK and presented to Border Force officials upon arrival.

    Ah - so pretty different than the header claimed then
    Didn't Elon Musk turn up the other week, came for a day or two and then left. He obviously clearly didn't quarantine. So is this even a totally new rule?
    Reading the actual details the header seems miles wide of the mark - how does a Tory use those rules to go on holiday?

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    @IsabelHardman WE HAVE A WINNER: Football kit worn OVER SHIRT AND TIE!
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1409856313744580608

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601
    Another reason not to use LinkedIn.

    A second massive LinkedIn breach reportedly exposes the data of 700M users, which is more than 92% of the total 756M users. The database is for sale on the dark web, with records including phone numbers, physical addresses, geolocation data, and inferred salaries.

    The hacker who obtained the data has posted a sample of 1M records, and checks confirm that the data is both genuine and up-to-date …


    RestorePrivacy reports that the hacker appears to have misused the official LinkedIn API to download the data, the same method used in a similar breach back in April.

    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/29/linkedin-breach/

    Does Dido Harding work for LinkedIn?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
    Really? Really?

    They existed well before Blair.
    Codified by Blair in 2005.

    “History of non-executives in Whitehall
    Non-executives were first introduced in the early 1990s. In 2005 the first corporate governance Code recommended that each Whitehall department should have at least two NEDs, to sit on the management board chaired by the permanent secretary. At the time there were 37 NEDs, in 14 departments.”

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/sites/constitution-unit/files/178_-_Critical_Friends__The_Role_of_Non_Executives_on_Whitehall_Boards.pdf
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    Ummm: I'm in LA County and I haven't seen any reintroduction of a mask mandate. And the LA County Covid page has no mention of it (http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/coronavirus/). Also, LA County seven day case numbers are still heading down.

    So, not sure what your source is.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    We're accepting that the previous supply chain where NI was an integral part of the UK is over. NI stores will source locally or from the south rather than be plugged into the UK.

    It simply isn't economical to have NI and ROI as separate markets with separate labels and standards. Currently NI big supermarkets supplied mainly from UK with some all Ireland sourcing from ROI. Going forward NI consumers get ROI products.

    Bound to be popular with the DUP. "Yet another betrayal" etc.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    Cloth eared. Like the leniency towards UEFA bigwigs and hangers on.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,348

    FFS...all reports are that waistcoat is going to be packing the defence, 3 centre backs, at least 2 defensive midfielders, no Grealish, no Foden (and of course no Sancho).

    Most other teams would be working out how to maximise the effectiveness of these world class talents, waistcoat sticks them on the bench.

    While the Chinese piss themselves at how poor the UK approach to security is, most other countries must piss themselves at finally England have players with world class ability and technique and they don't use them.

    It betrays a lack of confidence. Makes you think that, as soon as we concede a goal, we are going out of the tournament, and Southgate thinks the same. There's been some great comebacks this tournament. You don't feel like England believe they can do the same.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096

    This idea has Sajid Javid written all over it.

    "Sajid Fights For Our Freedom!" - was the tabloid headline that caught my eye today.

    They just create their own fictional world, these people.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,113
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    MattW said:

    This sounds like one to help potential inward investors - people talking about Gigafactories and the like.

    Not quite sure of the allegation that it will 'benefit Tory MPs', as it is for people coming here. That claim seems overenthusiastic.

    But I'm sure the politico-chimpanzee-tea-party will be all over it.

    Wonder if Angela HoofinMouth will be on this?

    I remain unconvinced by this Government's PR abilities.

    ---------------------
    Here's the wording:

    Applies to:
    Certain senior executives (board level or equivalent) travelling to England who would be more likely than not to bring significant economic benefit to the UK as a result of the exempt activity.

    Senior executives are classed as bringing ‘significant economic benefit’ if the work they are doing has a greater than 50% chance of creating or preserving at least 500 UK-based jobs in either:

    an existing UK-based business which has at least 500 employees
    a new UK business within 2 years of the date of their arrival in the UK
    Senior executives are only exempt if the business activity requires their physical presence and cannot be done remotely or by anyone who would not need to quarantine.

    The senior executive wishing to use the exemption must notify the UK government prior to doing so. They must do this using the business, jobs and investment exemption form.

    Only individuals who have received a letter from the UK government confirming that they meet the criteria for the exemption, based on the information provided, will be able to use the exemption. This letter must be obtained before travelling to the UK and presented to Border Force officials upon arrival.

    Ah - so pretty different than the header claimed then
    Didn't Elon Musk turn up the other week, came for a day or two and then left. He obviously clearly didn't quarantine. So is this even a totally new rule?
    Reading the actual details the header seems miles wide of the mark - how does a Tory use those rules to go on holiday?

    Link to the whole thing:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    ping said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Taking back control-
    Lorry driver shortage: UK government and retailers in emergency talks
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/28/lorry-driver-shortage-uk-government-and-retailers-in-emergency-talks-covid-brexit

    I don’t agree with @Philip_Thompson and assorted other drawbridge brexiteers on much, but this is one area where they have a point.

    The government should not manipulate the market to prevent wage rises. It’s a good thing for the industry to recalibrate to domestic employment, higher wages and slightly higher costs.
    Except that the issue has been caused by a supply shock because of
    - Covid
    - Brexit
    - IR35 etc

    At least two of those are deliberate govt policy, and one of them is an act of god which we presumably wish to mitigate against.

    It might be that simply overseeing a wage spike might have consequences at the grocery tills.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
    Isn't freedom day also the end of term?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960

    Another reason not to use LinkedIn.

    A second massive LinkedIn breach reportedly exposes the data of 700M users, which is more than 92% of the total 756M users. The database is for sale on the dark web, with records including phone numbers, physical addresses, geolocation data, and inferred salaries.

    The hacker who obtained the data has posted a sample of 1M records, and checks confirm that the data is both genuine and up-to-date …


    RestorePrivacy reports that the hacker appears to have misused the official LinkedIn API to download the data, the same method used in a similar breach back in April.

    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/29/linkedin-breach/

    Does Dido Harding work for LinkedIn?

    People still use LinkedIn?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
    Really? Really?

    They existed well before Blair.
    Codified by Blair in 2005.

    “History of non-executives in Whitehall
    Non-executives were first introduced in the early 1990s. In 2005 the first corporate governance Code recommended that each Whitehall department should have at least two NEDs, to sit on the management board chaired by the permanent secretary. At the time there were 37 NEDs, in 14 departments.”

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/sites/constitution-unit/files/178_-_Critical_Friends__The_Role_of_Non_Executives_on_Whitehall_Boards.pdf
    So your original post was wrong, glad we cleared that up.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    Another reason not to use LinkedIn.

    A second massive LinkedIn breach reportedly exposes the data of 700M users, which is more than 92% of the total 756M users. The database is for sale on the dark web, with records including phone numbers, physical addresses, geolocation data, and inferred salaries.

    The hacker who obtained the data has posted a sample of 1M records, and checks confirm that the data is both genuine and up-to-date …


    RestorePrivacy reports that the hacker appears to have misused the official LinkedIn API to download the data, the same method used in a similar breach back in April.

    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/29/linkedin-breach/

    Does Dido Harding work for LinkedIn?

    It’s not really possible (or is it?) to maintain a professional career without a LinkedIn profile.

    What this in turn tells me is we cannot rely on some of these private companies to secure this data; we must regrettably regulate them as quasi public utilities.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited June 2021

    FFS...all reports are that waistcoat is going to be packing the defence, 3 centre backs, at least 2 defensive midfielders, no Grealish, no Foden (and of course no Sancho).

    Most other teams would be working out how to maximise the effectiveness of these world class talents, waistcoat sticks them on the bench.

    While the Chinese piss themselves at how poor the UK approach to security is, most other countries must piss themselves at finally England have players with world class ability and technique and they don't use them.

    It betrays a lack of confidence. Makes you think that, as soon as we concede a goal, we are going out of the tournament, and Southgate thinks the same. There's been some great comebacks this tournament. You don't feel like England believe they can do the same.
    Its exactly that, he doesn't think we can score more than once during a game, therefore conceding a goal is a disaster. In the world cup, I think it was absolutely the right approach, England really didn't have the talent. Alli and Lingard aren't the same level as the likes of a Foden, who has just won the Champions League as one of the most instrumental players for Man City. Sancho absolutely tears up the Bundesliga. Grealish has been MoM in the two starts he made in the warm-ups and looked good the other night (although obviously Saka took the plaudits and rightly so).....nah bench them all.

    But what we have seen so far is the likes of Germany look very dodgy in defence, and England now genuinely do have some of the best attacking talent in Europe. But Southgate's instincts are always very conservative.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
    Not just death, though, is it?
    The probability of them being so seriously ill that they get hospitalised isn't trivial.
    Nor is the chance of chronic illness and potential long-term organ damage.
    They're not at the level where we can see any realistic chance of the NHS being overwhelmed by such, but we can't really dismiss the concern out of hand.

    Unless they authorise use of vaccines for the under-18s very rapidly and get a whole load more supply, I can't see them getting jabbed in time, so it's not really plausible for them to be protected prior to opening up on the 19th. I can understand some being very worried about that, but it's not likely to cause any realistic delay, I wouldn't have thought. The schools breaking up should help a lot by limiting spread, though.
    What will overwhelm the NHS is the months of and years of government mandated lack of exercise and interruption to education amongst the young.

    We can add to that the soaring mental health problems and a lifetime of crushing debt.

    All vigorously applauded by you, of course.

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
    Not just death, though, is it?
    The probability of them being so seriously ill that they get hospitalised isn't trivial.
    Nor is the chance of chronic illness and potential long-term organ damage.
    They're not at the level where we can see any realistic chance of the NHS being overwhelmed by such, but we can't really dismiss the concern out of hand.

    Unless they authorise use of vaccines for the under-18s very rapidly and get a whole load more supply, I can't see them getting jabbed in time, so it's not really plausible for them to be protected prior to opening up on the 19th. I can understand some being very worried about that, but it's not likely to cause any realistic delay, I wouldn't have thought. The schools breaking up should help a lot by limiting spread, though.
    But what good does keeping the whole class off do once the rest of the class have negative PCRs?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    We're accepting that the previous supply chain where NI was an integral part of the UK is over. NI stores will source locally or from the south rather than be plugged into the UK.

    It simply isn't economical to have NI and ROI as separate markets with separate labels and standards. Currently NI big supermarkets supplied mainly from UK with some all Ireland sourcing from ROI. Going forward NI consumers get ROI products.

    Bound to be popular with the DUP. "Yet another betrayal" etc.
    Thanks.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    This is an important concession by both parties.

    The EU has conceded a further extension of the current exemptions.

    The U.K. has conceded:
    a) that it was/is in the EU’s power to deny an extension
    b) that the extension is there to allow Northern Irish retailers to source locally or from the Republic, in preference to U.K. supply chains.

    The U.K. is slowly conceding the reality of a customs/regulatory border between GB and NI, long after have conceded it legally.
    The DUP are going to go stark raving bonkers over this. Tesco Ballymena will stock Irish beef and Irish milk and Irish market products and all the other stuff that you don't get in Tesco Barnsley. "WHERE IS OUR BRITISH BANGER" - thats got to be worth a march with a sash and one of those little bowler hats all by itself.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    Only Italy stands in their way....and Italy struggled to put away Austria.
    Whereas Germany was very good at putting a away Austria…
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    This is an important concession by both parties.

    The EU has conceded a further extension of the current exemptions.

    The U.K. has conceded:
    a) that it was/is in the EU’s power to deny an extension
    b) that the extension is there to allow Northern Irish retailers to source locally or from the Republic, in preference to U.K. supply chains.

    The U.K. is slowly conceding the reality of a customs/regulatory border between GB and NI, long after have conceded it legally.
    Thanks

  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    Ummm: I'm in LA County and I haven't seen any reintroduction of a mask mandate. And the LA County Covid page has no mention of it (http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/coronavirus/). Also, LA County seven day case numbers are still heading down.

    So, not sure what your source is.
    If the mask mandate remains, it's not freedom day, and won't be presented as such.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    This is an important concession by both parties.

    The EU has conceded a further extension of the current exemptions.

    The U.K. has conceded:
    a) that it was/is in the EU’s power to deny an extension
    b) that the extension is there to allow Northern Irish retailers to source locally or from the Republic, in preference to U.K. supply chains.

    The U.K. is slowly conceding the reality of a customs/regulatory border between GB and NI, long after have conceded it legally.
    The DUP are going to go stark raving bonkers over this. Tesco Ballymena will stock Irish beef and Irish milk and Irish market products and all the other stuff that you don't get in Tesco Barnsley. "WHERE IS OUR BRITISH BANGER" - thats got to be worth a march with a sash and one of those little bowler hats all by itself.
    The DUP have been comprehensively and continually cucked by the U.K., or rather by Boris Johnson and the Vote Leave administration.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,348

    Another reason not to use LinkedIn.

    A second massive LinkedIn breach reportedly exposes the data of 700M users, which is more than 92% of the total 756M users. The database is for sale on the dark web, with records including phone numbers, physical addresses, geolocation data, and inferred salaries.

    The hacker who obtained the data has posted a sample of 1M records, and checks confirm that the data is both genuine and up-to-date …


    RestorePrivacy reports that the hacker appears to have misused the official LinkedIn API to download the data, the same method used in a similar breach back in April.

    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/29/linkedin-breach/

    Does Dido Harding work for LinkedIn?

    It’s not really possible (or is it?) to maintain a professional career without a LinkedIn profile.

    What this in turn tells me is we cannot rely on some of these private companies to secure this data; we must regrettably regulate them as quasi public utilities.
    A lot of these companies would probably welcome a degree of regulation at this stage, as they're now large enough to absorb the additional costs and it would create an additional barrier to entry for any competition.

    The challenge then is not to introduce regulation, but to make sure that the regulation achieves what you want it to achieve (improving data security) rather than what they would want it to achieve (restricts competition).
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397

    algarkirk said:

    In which the irresistible force and the immoveable object are once again kicked down the road. (I can't make entire sense of TC's 6th point. Can anyone elucidate?)

    This is an important concession by both parties.

    The EU has conceded a further extension of the current exemptions.

    The U.K. has conceded:
    a) that it was/is in the EU’s power to deny an extension
    b) that the extension is there to allow Northern Irish retailers to source locally or from the Republic, in preference to U.K. supply chains.

    The U.K. is slowly conceding the reality of a customs/regulatory border between GB and NI, long after have conceded it legally.
    The DUP are going to go stark raving bonkers over this.
    Well, it is Tuesday.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
    Not just death, though, is it?
    The probability of them being so seriously ill that they get hospitalised isn't trivial.
    Nor is the chance of chronic illness and potential long-term organ damage.
    They're not at the level where we can see any realistic chance of the NHS being overwhelmed by such, but we can't really dismiss the concern out of hand.

    Unless they authorise use of vaccines for the under-18s very rapidly and get a whole load more supply, I can't see them getting jabbed in time, so it's not really plausible for them to be protected prior to opening up on the 19th. I can understand some being very worried about that, but it's not likely to cause any realistic delay, I wouldn't have thought. The schools breaking up should help a lot by limiting spread, though.
    But what good does keeping the whole class off do once the rest of the class have negative PCRs?
    The life outcomes of the young are being destroyed by a lockdown imposed on them to save the skins of the elderly

    They have been fed to the wolves by the very people who now want to turn them into pin cushions over a disease that does not really affect them.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,366

    Scott_xP said:

    Matt Hancock appointed a friend to a role that included scrutinising his work as a minister. They earned £15,000 for 15 days’ work.

    There are 85 of these positions - including more Tory friends and donors.

    We need a fully independent appointment process.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1409851895225724929

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/29/labour-urges-overhaul-of-whitehall-oversight-rules-after-hancock-row

    Labour would have a bit more credibility if it wasn’t for the fact that their hero Tony Blair introduced non-executive directorships.
    Really? Really?

    They existed well before Blair.
    Codified by Blair in 2005.

    “History of non-executives in Whitehall
    Non-executives were first introduced in the early 1990s. In 2005 the first corporate governance Code recommended that each Whitehall department should have at least two NEDs, to sit on the management board chaired by the permanent secretary. At the time there were 37 NEDs, in 14 departments.”

    https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/sites/constitution-unit/files/178_-_Critical_Friends__The_Role_of_Non_Executives_on_Whitehall_Boards.pdf
    There's nothing wrong with NEDs per se if they are appointed properly. They should have a role equivalent to the Governors at a school or college, roughly.

    The problem is the cronyism in the way this government appoints people to NED roles, particularly, and obviously, Hancock.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    geoffw said:

    Cloth eared. Like the leniency towards UEFA bigwigs and hangers on.

    Cloth eared? Tories? I’m shocked.

    Another reason not to use LinkedIn.

    A second massive LinkedIn breach reportedly exposes the data of 700M users, which is more than 92% of the total 756M users. The database is for sale on the dark web, with records including phone numbers, physical addresses, geolocation data, and inferred salaries.

    The hacker who obtained the data has posted a sample of 1M records, and checks confirm that the data is both genuine and up-to-date …


    RestorePrivacy reports that the hacker appears to have misused the official LinkedIn API to download the data, the same method used in a similar breach back in April.

    https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/29/linkedin-breach/

    Does Dido Harding work for LinkedIn?

    It’s not really possible (or is it?) to maintain a professional career without a LinkedIn profile.

    What this in turn tells me is we cannot rely on some of these private companies to secure this data; we must regrettably regulate them as quasi public utilities.
    And you trust your data to public utilities? Quaint.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    ping said:

    I’ve come to an uncomfortable conclusion on the euro outright market.

    Germany, at ~7/1, are the value bet.

    I can’t quite bring myself to back them, though!

    I have.

    All things being equal the winner of the England v. Germany match gets to the final.

    In a two horse race you'd be happy with a 7/1 bet.
    At the moment it is a 14 horse race
    Nope - 10 horses left as 6 of the round of 16 are played...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,949

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    How can it be freedom day when it is still mooted that children will be kept from school if there is a positive test in the class. While literally hundreds of thousands of people go to sports events, the pub, etc.

    What exactly does no more restrictions mean? It means restrictions the govt decides to keep. Plenty of them. Some idiot on R4 just now saying well children...long covid...can affect them....

    Vanishingly small probability of a child suffering from Covid. Otherwise, given that it has ripped through schools and unis these past few weeks, we would be hearing reports of children dying by the bucketload each day. Doesn't seem to be happening.
    Not just death, though, is it?
    The probability of them being so seriously ill that they get hospitalised isn't trivial.
    Nor is the chance of chronic illness and potential long-term organ damage.
    They're not at the level where we can see any realistic chance of the NHS being overwhelmed by such, but we can't really dismiss the concern out of hand.

    Unless they authorise use of vaccines for the under-18s very rapidly and get a whole load more supply, I can't see them getting jabbed in time, so it's not really plausible for them to be protected prior to opening up on the 19th. I can understand some being very worried about that, but it's not likely to cause any realistic delay, I wouldn't have thought. The schools breaking up should help a lot by limiting spread, though.
    Was it you who posted the stats yesterday? Some number, perhaps 60 under 30s had died.

    Shocking obvs but not a reason to seriously fuck with the education and mental health of an entire generation.

    Won't someone think of the children works both ways.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    edited June 2021
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Those undertaking activities with significant economic benefit have always had favourable rules during this pandemic.

    Remember the you can meet up with people in a restaurant if it was for this. Or travel, the plebs can't go on holiday, but business people have been able to travel basically unhindered throughout.

    Given Freedom day is only 3 weeks away, I am not sure it will make a lot of difference.

    I am not sure it will be full Freedom Day, with even Australia restoring lockdown in some states and LA county reimposing a mask wearing request because of the Delta variant I would imagine masks will still be required to be worn in shops and on public transport, the biggest events will still have a capacity limit and quarantine will still be required for visits to red list countries and for the non double vaccinated to amber countries even from the middle of next month.

    I think this new government exemption would therefore certainly be very unpopular if executives returned from a red list country without quarantining
    Ummm: I'm in LA County and I haven't seen any reintroduction of a mask mandate. And the LA County Covid page has no mention of it (http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/media/coronavirus/). Also, LA County seven day case numbers are still heading down.

    So, not sure what your source is.
    If the mask mandate remains, it's not freedom day, and won't be presented as such.
    I was merely pointing out that @HYUFD's claim that a mask mandate had been reintroduced in LA County is incorrect.
This discussion has been closed.