The front pages are pretty bad for Hancock – politicalbetting.com

Cicero said:

I guess that there is a certain kind of grim satisfaction in watching the Tories tie themselves into knots defending the indefensible. However, as low grade loathsome as Hancock is, the real story is not his pathetic little fling and the abject incompetence and dishonesty that it exposes.

The real story is who released the CCTV and associated corroboration and why? It could, of course, be more of the brutal, but ultimately shallow revenge of Cummings. However it seems that the source may be elsewhere. Murdoch flexing his muscles re:GB News? Except that Rupes is distracted elsewhere (and is 90 after all) and it seems that this was not an in house sting from The Sun. More to the point BoJo has been a pretty big player in the media world and knows that he can probably face it down (albeit at a cost of buckets of shit hitting his head for a few weeks, which he figures he can brazen out as he has done so many times before).

Actually like Roger I don't think the fling itself is that pathetic - without knowing the marital circumstances it's impossible to judge the ethics, but the embrace itself looked sweetly affectionate. I do think that his previous record of condeming someone else for the same thing and insisting on rules for everyone else warrant resignation, but that's as far as I'd go.

But cui bono on the video? First, opportunity. Neither Boris nor any other politician seems likely to have access to CCTV (still less to long-distance paparazzi pictures). MI5? not really - they struggle to keep track of suspected terrorists, hard to imagine they assign people to peruse Westminster corridors. But some junior officer monitors CCTV, and that seems the first place to look. Second, motive. Might it not simply be money? I could well imagine the Sun paying £100K for it.

moonshine said:

Razedabode said:

I think it’s quite clear Hancock hasn’t been thought to be effective at all. I can disregard Cummings comments but the killer was Simon Stevens reaction for me when asked about Hancock.

So PBers are right - someone wants him gone. But now the risk is Boris’ competency is yet again bought back into the argument, by refusing to sack. Who benefits from Johnson’s government taking a hit in competency and popularity within the Tory party…

Hopefully you don’t mean michael gove. If he becomes PM I’m moving.

Same here. But it is bizarre how the footage was obtained

Imagine a series of cameras hidden all across Whitehall - there could be a load of this stuff about to “leak” out

moonshine said:

Does anyone know how many senators will be shown the classified section of the UAP Taskforce report? All of them? Or just the intelligence committee and gang of 8?

I’m astounded (I really shouldnt be) that Philip and Robert can think the report no big deal. In plain language it states that they are a risk to flight safety and may be a risk to national security. Forget the rest, just consider that. They are a real physical phenomena that is categorically a risk to flight safety.

It goes on to say that they have no evidence they are from foreign adversaries. With all the trillions spent on military hardware, electronic surveillance, human sources etc… there’s “no evidence” they are from Russia or China. Let that part sink in.

And finally that at least 18 incidents showed “unusual flight characteristics”, namely very fast acceleration with no visible signs of propulsion.

These are incidents only recorded since 2004 and only by the Navy. Neither the Air Force or CIA cooperated with the report. In essence there are 18 (!) episodes equivalent to the famous Nimitz case involving David Fravor. That’s just the Navy and just those that were formally recorded.

And to Philip’s lament that “oh no they’re asking for more money”. When figures were last reported, the task force had an annual budget of just $22m. What do you think would be an appropriate percentage of the US military budget to spend further investigating physical objects around US military assets, that not only display technological signatures but have been categorised as: “clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security”?

I agree with much of what you say, and Philip and Robert are both oddly incapable of mental flexibility, especially when they need to see new truths in contentious areas. Check the way Robert reacted to my posting the potential location of a BSL2 lab in Wuhan, he said it wasn't Wuhan, he said such a lab didn't exist, he said the map showed Swindon, he said the indicated location was wrong, he laughed that I believed in this mad theory - and then it turned out HE was wrong on all points, and he retreated with some humiliation.

He's a super smart guy, why did he leap to the false but orthodox conclusion? He lacks creative breadth of vision, perhaps: he has the kind of brain which is great for focussing on narrow facts, geeky corners of science, accepted versions of logic, but a brain which is less good at seeing hidden clues, implicit stories, and wider implications.

However, while I agree with you that this report subtly points to some pretty outrageous conclusions, for those able to read it that way, there is clearly a danger the USG will let this slip, having done its tiny job, and we all move on, and this bizarre question will return to the shadows.

And we will never know if anything really is out there (which is still far from proven). Shame

NickPalmer said:

Cicero said:

I guess that there is a certain kind of grim satisfaction in watching the Tories tie themselves into knots defending the indefensible. However, as low grade loathsome as Hancock is, the real story is not his pathetic little fling and the abject incompetence and dishonesty that it exposes.

The real story is who released the CCTV and associated corroboration and why? It could, of course, be more of the brutal, but ultimately shallow revenge of Cummings. However it seems that the source may be elsewhere. Murdoch flexing his muscles re:GB News? Except that Rupes is distracted elsewhere (and is 90 after all) and it seems that this was not an in house sting from The Sun. More to the point BoJo has been a pretty big player in the media world and knows that he can probably face it down (albeit at a cost of buckets of shit hitting his head for a few weeks, which he figures he can brazen out as he has done so many times before).

Actually like Roger I don't think the fling itself is that pathetic - without knowing the marital circumstances it's impossible to judge the ethics, but the embrace itself looked sweetly affectionate. I do think that his previous record of condeming someone else for the same thing and insisting on rules for everyone else warrant resignation, but that's as far as I'd go.

But cui bono on the video? First, opportunity. Neither Boris nor any other politician seems likely to have access to CCTV (still less to long-distance paparazzi pictures). MI5? not really - they struggle to keep track of suspected terrorists, hard to imagine they assign people to peruse Westminster corridors. But some junior officer monitors CCTV, and that seems the first place to look. Second, motive. Might it not simply be money? I could well imagine the Sun paying £100K for it.

Unnamed sources confirm that Hancock’s three children and Gina’s three children all thought “the embrace looked sweetly affectionate”.

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

LostPassword said:

DavidL said:

This is troubling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-57602773

A series of restrictions assuming continued social distancing for a Christmas market as a result of which it will run at a loss.
Surely the need for those things will be ancient history by then?

Yes. It will take a while for people to adjust to the emergency being over.

We saw inertia at the beginning of the emergency and we will see inertia at the end. It will take some effort to overcome.

It’s important that we do. Not just for the economy but for our collective sanity. The restrictions imposed here by the Council are just wrong.

A bizarre reluctance to have the equivalent of vaccine passports has already cost us most of the benefits that should have accrued from our early vaccination. We must not lose the rest from silly restrictions after this is over.

This was one of the reasons why I despised the phrase, "the new normal." These restrictions were extraordinary and temporary - and now no longer necessary.

I can sympathise with people finding it hard to adjust, though. I see others calling it malevolence, and I just think it's simple psychology.

It is. But it is something that the government should be alert to and working to prevent. If the legislation under which such restrictions are imposed is repealed the government must be careful that it is not replaced by a misuse of license requirements.

I have heard tell of various officials looking to continue social distancing and mask wearing even if the government pulls any legal restrictions, as pandemics don't just end by government diktat.

I think any such are kidding themselves if they think trying to backdoor such things will not blow up in their face.

Lots of people will remain scared and cautious by choice and voluntarily adhere to such things if told to, but people have accepted the necessity of measures and their lawfulness. Loads will kick up hell if some council or business seeks to continue things past government requirement.

rottenborough said:

noneoftheabove said:

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Stocky said:

rottenborough said:

I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.

Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.

Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.

Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.

I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.

Damn, got me doing it as well now.

I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.

I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.

I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.

I can't see how that is the case?

The police were faster than Hawaii 5 O when it was two lasses taking a walk in a Derbyshire park.

Why so slow now?

Different forces. Maybe?

state_go_away said:

isam said:

tlg86 said:

isam said:

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.

I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.

Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:

https://youtu.be/E4yz6Y6Y8cU

Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM

My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.

Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury. ‘The cherry on the cake… but there’s no cake’ - Tony Adams on Ozil

But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.

Nobody wishes to disrespect deep convictions but those that really have them (and not those who merge with showing off/virtue showing) tend to do them in private. Not sure why Ozil could not do his praying in the dressing room /toilet etc just before . I dont think the Koran makes a distinction between a open arena and a dressing room for prayer for instance. Spectators go to sport to watch sport , they dont go for religion or indeed politics or moral crusades

Lots of footballers have pre-match rituals, from tapping the tunnel on the way out to praying. Mahrez prayed while waiting for the whistle, and 'nacho always does to. He always praises God after every goal too.

I don't have a problem with it. PL players are often from countries with strong religious traditions. Our Thai owners sometimes get Bhuddist monks to bless the stadium too, I think that there are not many Bhuddists in the crowd, but always treated with respect.

noneoftheabove said:

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Stocky said:

rottenborough said:

I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.

Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.

Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.

Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.

I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.

Damn, got me doing it as well now.

I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.

I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.

I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.

I can't see how that is the case?

He may argue that since they were exempt for legitimate purposes and so gathered, a personal non legitimate gathering is not technically a breach since for Covid purposes theyd legitimately formed a close contact already.

It would matter to the police, but not anyone else - the perception is what matters, and it looks bloody awful, hes even on camera talking about affairs. So technically a crime matters little even if so - I bet hes talked about spirit of the rules not just the letter.

ydoethur said:

Black_Rook said:

ydoethur said:

noneoftheabove said:

Stocky said:

Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?

Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?

I quite like there being someone both competent and clean of this government being ready and able to take over one day. It won't happen but Hunt on the backbenches helps retain a sliver of hope.

Sudden throught.

Hancock has to stay.

If he’s removed, Health might get Gove or Williamson...

Nah, you'd end up with Dowden at Health, Williamson would get shunted off to Culture, and Gove would go back to Education - which I'm sure you'd really, really love.

Oh good grief.

It’s too late to resign this year...and I can’t face the thought of Gove again.

Couldn’t we have somebody less destructive, like Attila the Hun?

Hes busy in heaven.

Hancock should go. His replacement should be Steve Baker - we need someone at health with a brain, who isn't completely two faced, and who isn't in the grip of the zero Covid lunatics.

If Matt Hancock wants to delay unlocking again, I'd just assume that he's still on a power trip, and has probably been fed another study by Warwick that predicts double the entire population getting it by next Tuesday if we unlock. If Baker delayed, you'd know he was convinced something terrible would happen if we went ahead.

Carnyx said:

rottenborough said:

noneoftheabove said:

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Stocky said:

rottenborough said:

I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.

Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.

Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.

Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.

I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.

Damn, got me doing it as well now.

I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.

I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.

I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.

I can't see how that is the case?

The police were faster than Hawaii 5 O when it was two lasses taking a walk in a Derbyshire park.

Why so slow now?

Different forces. Maybe?

The Metropolitan Police stopped women buying coffee in Borough Market and broke up a perfectly legal church service but were OK with cyclists driving across London from Westminster to Stratford.

LostPassword said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

StuartDickson said:

David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.

Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night

Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need.
Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.

I woke up in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary in 1964 being very sick in the early hours of the morning having suffered concussion playing football and had partial amnesia for several months.

An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell

And my very best wishes to @DavidL.

I recently cycled a lot closer to the Royal Infirmary than I intended after taking a wrong turn in Little France park on my way to Craigmillar Castle.

I'd cheerfully used my bell to let a couple of plod know to make way for me as I passed them rapidly downhill, but then had to struggle back past them up the incline after realising my mistake.

Is Craigmillar worth a visit? I’m always taken by surprise when that big lump of a castle hoves into view, though never stopped to explore.

moonshine said:

Razedabode said:

I think it’s quite clear Hancock hasn’t been thought to be effective at all. I can disregard Cummings comments but the killer was Simon Stevens reaction for me when asked about Hancock.

So PBers are right - someone wants him gone. But now the risk is Boris’ competency is yet again bought back into the argument, by refusing to sack. Who benefits from Johnson’s government taking a hit in competency and popularity within the Tory party…

Hopefully you don’t mean michael gove. If he becomes PM I’m moving.

I thought you’d welcome your new alien overlord.

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

StuartDickson said:

David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.

Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night

Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need.
Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.

I woke up in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary in 1964 being very sick in the early hours of the morning having suffered concussion playing football and had partial amnesia for several months.

An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell

And my very best wishes to @DavidL.

I recently cycled a lot closer to the Royal Infirmary than I intended after taking a wrong turn in Little France park on my way to Craigmillar Castle.

I'd cheerfully used my bell to let a couple of plod know to make way for me as I passed them rapidly downhill, but then had to struggle back past them up the incline after realising my mistake.

Is Craigmillar worth a visit? I’m always taken by surprise when that big lump of a castle hoves into view, though never stopped to explore.

Me neither, but it's closed anyway (pox). Does look promising though, and it's gey historic.

https://www.historicenvironment.scot/visit-a-place/places/craigmillar-castle/overview/

Edit: grounds open, but not castle itself.

Theuniondivvie said:

moonshine said:

Razedabode said:

I think it’s quite clear Hancock hasn’t been thought to be effective at all. I can disregard Cummings comments but the killer was Simon Stevens reaction for me when asked about Hancock.

So PBers are right - someone wants him gone. But now the risk is Boris’ competency is yet again bought back into the argument, by refusing to sack. Who benefits from Johnson’s government taking a hit in competency and popularity within the Tory party…

Hopefully you don’t mean michael gove. If he becomes PM I’m moving.

I thought you’d welcome your new alien overlord.

That would certainly turbocharge the indy debate, with a PM whose very legitimacy as a MP never mind a PM would quite possibly evaporate at 00:01 on independence day, given the sentiments expressed by PBTories and no doubt other Tories

Mexicanpete said:

.

MarqueeMark said:

I think Hancock should go. Not because of an inter-office romance, even if it might perhaps have breached some keep-your-distance regs his department is tasked with putting out.

The wider concern is the contracts awarded to people in his orbit. Now, having to knock all that on the head might be problematic for senior members of the Government - especially those who have a similar attitude to "rewarding friends for being friends". But it is the greatest risk to the chances of this government being re-elected. They need a stern reminder that Government's lose elections - and letting this continue unchecked is the way they will lose.

Don't worry.

Your victory lap on Friday (courtesy of Gorgeous George) is still in order. I am hoping Blue will be back by then, to indulge too. Enjoy!

Anyone know where @BluestBlue is? Hasn't posted for two weeks. Perhaps abroad and can't post I guess (I see he is still "active" recently). I can't post on my iphone - not sure why - has to be on my PC.

Stocky said:

Mexicanpete said:

.

MarqueeMark said:

I think Hancock should go. Not because of an inter-office romance, even if it might perhaps have breached some keep-your-distance regs his department is tasked with putting out.

The wider concern is the contracts awarded to people in his orbit. Now, having to knock all that on the head might be problematic for senior members of the Government - especially those who have a similar attitude to "rewarding friends for being friends". But it is the greatest risk to the chances of this government being re-elected. They need a stern reminder that Government's lose elections - and letting this continue unchecked is the way they will lose.

Don't worry.

Your victory lap on Friday (courtesy of Gorgeous George) is still in order. I am hoping Blue will be back by then, to indulge too. Enjoy!

Anyone know where @BluestBlue is? Hasn't posted for two weeks. Perhaps abroad and can't post I guess. I can't post on my iphone - not sure why - has to be on my PC.

Probably can't work out how to set the date on his mobile to VI ante Kalendas Iulii.

🤣

God this is even worse with the audio




https://twitter.com/ofalafel/status/1408539929798483972?s=21

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

StuartDickson said:

David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.

Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night

Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need.
Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.

I woke up in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary in 1964 being very sick in the early hours of the morning having suffered concussion playing football and had partial amnesia for several months.

An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell

And my very best wishes to @DavidL.

I recently cycled a lot closer to the Royal Infirmary than I intended after taking a wrong turn in Little France park on my way to Craigmillar Castle.

I'd cheerfully used my bell to let a couple of plod know to make way for me as I passed them rapidly downhill, but then had to struggle back past them up the incline after realising my mistake.

Is Craigmillar worth a visit? I’m always taken by surprise when that big lump of a castle hoves into view, though never stopped to explore.

There's a decent amount of the castle still standing, and some good views.

It will always have a special memory for me since when we visited in 2019, our time enjoying the view from the battlements coincided with the arrival of the massed cavalry* on its way to Edinburgh Castle. This wasn't something we knew about in advance, but the perfect vantage point for such a surprise.

* https://edinburghridingofthemarches.com/

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Why does it matter if the Labour candidate is gay? Who cares, what is wrong with people seriously

There are three questions there, each of which which a committee of the 15 wisest people in history from Socrates to Einstein will be unable to answer.

Carnyx said:

Theuniondivvie said:

LostPassword said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

StuartDickson said:

DavidL said:

StuartDickson said:

David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.

Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night

Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need.
Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.

I woke up in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary in 1964 being very sick in the early hours of the morning having suffered concussion playing football and had partial amnesia for several months.

An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell

And my very best wishes to @DavidL.

I recently cycled a lot closer to the Royal Infirmary than I intended after taking a wrong turn in Little France park on my way to Craigmillar Castle.

I'd cheerfully used my bell to let a couple of plod know to make way for me as I passed them rapidly downhill, but then had to struggle back past them up the incline after realising my mistake.

Is Craigmillar worth a visit? I’m always taken by surprise when that big lump of a castle hoves into view, though never stopped to explore.

Me neither, but it's closed anyway (pox). Does look promising though, and it's gey historic.

https://www.historicenvironment.scot/visit-a-place/places/craigmillar-castle/overview/

Edit: grounds open, but not castle itself.

The castle park is a pleasant place for a walk about too - lots of ~20 year old trees as planted as a millennium wood.

kle4 said:

noneoftheabove said:

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Stocky said:

rottenborough said:

I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.

Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.

Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.

Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.

I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.

Damn, got me doing it as well now.

I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.

I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.

I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.

I can't see how that is the case?

He may argue that since they were exempt for legitimate purposes and so gathered, a personal non legitimate gathering is not technically a breach since for Covid purposes theyd legitimately formed a close contact already.

It would matter to the police, but not anyone else - the perception is what matters, and it looks bloody awful, hes even on camera talking about affairs. So technically a crime matters little even if so - I bet hes talked about spirit of the rules not just the letter.

IANAL and there are several on this forum so perhaps they may elaborate but I fail to see how such an argument holds any water. The law was never that once you have formed a close contact you could gather indoors with them on an ongoing basis. It was that you could only gather indoors with someone specifically for an exempt reason, or if they were in your household or support bubble.

Sandpit said:

Razedabode said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Abode, quite. The Russian event is currently one of the most tedious. Although still not as bad as Monaco.

Hoping the changes next year may make Monaco a bit more interesting - but not holding out any hope. The history of the it means its place in the f1 calendar is untouchable

It was said 30 years ago, that F1 cars had outgrown Monaco - and they’re a lot bigger and faster now, than they were then. It’s only on the calendar because it’s always been, and because the sponsors love the place. Great to watch on Saturday though, as they push everything right up to the limit in qualifying.

It's a place for smoozing rather than racing.

Thankfully with at least 16 other races it doesn't really impact the season's end result.

kle4 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

IanB2 said:

Rumours that Coladangelo's brother was given some of the lucrative PPE contracts by the NHS....

This illustrates the Prime Minister's dilemma. If Hancock goes then journalists will be poring over the timelines of Boris/Carrie, and questions about contracts for friends and relatives will reopen questions about Boris and Arcuri.

Hmm. I'm not convinced by that reasoning. Boris is already PM and some people obsessively hate him, not just politically oppose him, surely journalists somewhere have already had the go ahead to devote tim to pour over every detail of those matters?

Yes, reopening things, but as the very question demonstrates Hancock bonking and awarding contracts invites focus on Boris whether hes sacked or not.

It is a question of hypocrisy.

Remember the Conservative leadership campaign. All (or most) of the candidates confessed to dallying with drugs but only Gove was forced out, because he had threatened to sack teachers doing the same. Boris was given a free pass for snorting icing sugar.

Part of the case against Hancock is that he called for Ferguson to go for seeing his lady friend. If Hancock is forced out, then the same question of hypocrisy moves up the ladder to Boris. If Hancock stays, then Boris is not a hypocrite.

Mr. kle4, not so much a deliberate design to copy the tedium as the fact street circuits are quicker to 'create' and countries that want to pay cash for marketing find them convenient.

Unfortunately, Baku excepted, they tend to be very boring...

James O'Brien
@mrjamesob
·
1h
It’s not the infidelity, it’s the sacrifices everyone else made because *he* told them to that might yet do for Hancock. This isn’t going away.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kle4, not so much a deliberate design to copy the tedium as the fact street circuits are quicker to 'create' and countries that want to pay cash for marketing find them convenient.

Unfortunately, Baku excepted, they tend to be very boring...

If I'm likely to head to any race to watch in person, Baku would be my favourite option simply because I have zero other reason to go there.

Now if Istanbul has a race in 2022 we will go there as it would tie in with a holiday round Istanbul.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kle4, not so much a deliberate design to copy the tedium as the fact street circuits are quicker to 'create' and countries that want to pay cash for marketing find them convenient.

Unfortunately, Baku excepted, they tend to be very boring...

But that was the point - they may not deliberately set out to select tedious circuits, but they have deliberately set out to, as with Monaco, not exclude circuits which are tedious, but prioritise prestige.

Mr. kle4, aye.

The Circuit of the Americas shows how good new tracks can be, but most new additions are distinctly lacklustre.

algarkirk said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Why does it matter if the Labour candidate is gay? Who cares, what is wrong with people seriously

There are three questions there, each of which which a committee of the 15 wisest people in history from Socrates to Einstein will be unable to answer.

Not difficult to answer at all.

It matters because quite a lot of people have bigoted traditionalist views.
People who care are mostly those who have bigoted traditionalist views and people who need to understand how those people will vote, such as politicians and political gamblers.
And there are many things wrong with people, including an expectation that people behave rationally and correctly despite conclusive and repeated evidence to the contrary.

Northern_Al said:

MarqueeMark said:

I think Hancock should go. Not because of an inter-office romance, even if it might perhaps have breached some keep-your-distance regs his department is tasked with putting out.

The wider concern is the contracts awarded to people in his orbit. Now, having to knock all that on the head might be problematic for senior members of the Government - especially those who have a similar attitude to "rewarding friends for being friends". But it is the greatest risk to the chances of this government being re-elected. They need a stern reminder that Government's lose elections - and letting this continue unchecked is the way they will lose.

I'm delighted that you are concerned about the cronyism in awarding contracts issue, and that you disapprove of "rewarding friends for being friends".

However, I'm disappointed that it has taken Hancock's misdemeanours for you to raise this concern, when such cronyism, some of which is tantamount to corruption, has been evident in the awarding of contracts since the start of the pandemic. You and other Tories have defended the government on this for the last year when people like me have raised it - what's changed?

The fear of losing votes in sufficient numbers. Nothing else.

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kle4, not so much a deliberate design to copy the tedium as the fact street circuits are quicker to 'create' and countries that want to pay cash for marketing find them convenient.

Unfortunately, Baku excepted, they tend to be very boring...

If I'm likely to head to any race to watch in person, Baku would be my favourite option simply because I have zero other reason to go there.

Now if Istanbul has a race in 2022 we will go there as it would tie in with a holiday round Istanbul.

Monaco is, I believe, popular as a 'go to' with the backroom teams.

Somewhere is a Jeremy Clarkson programme on Monaco where all the F1 drivers explain they live there because it is so convenient for the Grand Prix. So by a circular argument, there has to be a Grand Prix in Monaco or the drivers and team bosses would have to live in less convenient countries and pay income tax.

Theuniondivvie said:

state_go_away said:

isam said:

tlg86 said:

isam said:

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.

I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.

Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:

https://youtu.be/E4yz6Y6Y8cU

Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM

My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.

Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury. ‘The cherry on the cake… but there’s no cake’ - Tony Adams on Ozil

But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.

Nobody wishes to disrespect deep convictions but those that really have them (and not those who merge with showing off/virtue showing) tend to do them in private. Not sure why Ozil could not do his praying in the dressing room /toilet etc just before . I dont think the Koran makes a distinction between a open arena and a dressing room for prayer for instance. Spectators go to sport to watch sport , they dont go for religion or indeed politics or moral crusades

The Old Firm waves..

People love a bit of recreational sectarianism.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Why does it matter if the Labour candidate is gay? Who cares, what is wrong with people seriously

It matters quite a lot to a significant percentage of the people Labour invited into our country to improve our social diversity. People who are now British and yet in many cases don’t share British values. Yet another tranche of the electorate Labour took for granted. Biter bit.

Claims the cameras are owned by a Chinese firm:
https://twitter.com/tesssummers98/status/1408655902006255619

If true, Hancock should still go but more serious questions are raised.

noneoftheabove said:

kle4 said:

noneoftheabove said:

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Stocky said:

rottenborough said:

I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.

Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.

Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.

Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.

I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.

Damn, got me doing it as well now.

I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.

I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.

I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.

I can't see how that is the case?

He may argue that since they were exempt for legitimate purposes and so gathered, a personal non legitimate gathering is not technically a breach since for Covid purposes theyd legitimately formed a close contact already.

It would matter to the police, but not anyone else - the perception is what matters, and it looks bloody awful, hes even on camera talking about affairs. So technically a crime matters little even if so - I bet hes talked about spirit of the rules not just the letter.

IANAL and there are several on this forum so perhaps they may elaborate but I fail to see how such an argument holds any water. The law was never that once you have formed a close contact you could gather indoors with them on an ongoing basis. It was that you could only gather indoors with someone specifically for an exempt reason, or if they were in your household or support bubble.

The law said people could gather indoors for work, so Matt and Gina are OK on that score. The law is silent on whether, having so gathered, it was in order to put on a show to titillate security guards.

IanB2 said:

LostPassword said:

IanB2 said:

noneoftheabove said:

IanB2 said:

So who inside the Tory Party wants him gone?

A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...

The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.

He must want Hancock to resign.

He does, now, but I don't pin the leak on him - trying to get rid of Hancock using the affair would be idiotic even by his standards.

Someone senior in the Tory party wants Hancock out of the team.

My 4d chess argument is that Gove wants him out of the Cabinet pouring ordure onto Sunak's head for delaying the autumn lockdown last year from the backbenches, as the multiple inquiries into Covid get going and the blame-pointing begins.

In one move Gove would damage two rivals for the top job.

Certainly, having Hancock already disgraced when the inquiry begins will make it easy for the powers to pin any failings identified on him, rather than....

While that is probably true the key question that Boris going to have to answer is why he persisted with a health minister he deemed to be "hopeless" in the middle of our worst health crisis in a century.

rottenborough said:

James O'Brien
@mrjamesob
·
1h
It’s not the infidelity, it’s the sacrifices everyone else made because *he* told them to that might yet do for Hancock. This isn’t going away.

To be brutally realistic the sacrifices were generally good advice to stop people catching a dangerous virus.

Hancock was infected last year and was at minimal risk subsequently.

I suspect few previously infected people have been following covid restrictions with the rigour they would have if they hadn't been infected. Ditto for those vaccinated.

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Macron and Merkel decided to have an EU-Putin summit, when Macrel and Merkin would represent the EU position, thus showing *EU strategic autonomy from the USA*

... except the rest of the EU told them to sit down and STFU, Paris and Berlin are *not* Europe. The Eastern Europeans disagreed with cuddling up to Putin, Rome, Warsaw and Madrid disliked the arrogance form France and Germany. Lol


Couldn't happen to a nicer couple

"#Merkel and #Macron were visibly annoyed today about the rejection of their idea for an EU summit with #Putin.

"But while #Biden speaking for Europe might have been implicit, for Merkel and Macron's summit it would have been explicit. And many capitals didn't like that."

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1408423051495084032?s=20

Why would they so publlicly float such an idea without checking that more of the other nations, especially those closer to the Russian border, were on board? That's just incompetent.

Arrogance as they believe the rest will bow to their will

Leon said:

Macron and Merkel decided to have an EU-Putin summit, when Macrel and Merkin would represent the EU position, thus showing *EU strategic autonomy from the USA*

... except the rest of the EU told them to sit down and STFU, Paris and Berlin are *not* Europe. The Eastern Europeans disagreed with cuddling up to Putin, Rome, Warsaw and Madrid disliked the arrogance form France and Germany. Lol


Couldn't happen to a nicer couple

"#Merkel and #Macron were visibly annoyed today about the rejection of their idea for an EU summit with #Putin.

"But while #Biden speaking for Europe might have been implicit, for Merkel and Macron's summit it would have been explicit. And many capitals didn't like that."

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1408423051495084032?s=20

And to think I was told that the EU was a racket set up for the benefit of & controlled by Germany and France, and therefore the UK was better off out.
I don't think I can ever trust yon Brexiteers again!

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

state_go_away said:

isam said:

tlg86 said:

isam said:

rcs1000 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.

I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.

Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:

https://youtu.be/E4yz6Y6Y8cU

Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM

My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.

Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury. ‘The cherry on the cake… but there’s no cake’ - Tony Adams on Ozil

But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.

Nobody wishes to disrespect deep convictions but those that really have them (and not those who merge with showing off/virtue showing) tend to do them in private. Not sure why Ozil could not do his praying in the dressing room /toilet etc just before . I dont think the Koran makes a distinction between a open arena and a dressing room for prayer for instance. Spectators go to sport to watch sport , they dont go for religion or indeed politics or moral crusades

The Old Firm waves..

People love a bit of recreational sectarianism.

Only some. There's Partick Thistle.

noneoftheabove said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

noneoftheabove said:

kle4 said:

noneoftheabove said:

alex_ said:

DavidL said:

Stocky said:

rottenborough said:

I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.

Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.

Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.

Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.

I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.

Damn, got me doing it as well now.

I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.

I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.

I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.

I can't see how that is the case?

He may argue that since they were exempt for legitimate purposes and so gathered, a personal non legitimate gathering is not technically a breach since for Covid purposes theyd legitimately formed a close contact already.

It would matter to the police, but not anyone else - the perception is what matters, and it looks bloody awful, hes even on camera talking about affairs. So technically a crime matters little even if so - I bet hes talked about spirit of the rules not just the letter.

IANAL and there are several on this forum so perhaps they may elaborate but I fail to see how such an argument holds any water. The law was never that once you have formed a close contact you could gather indoors with them on an ongoing basis. It was that you could only gather indoors with someone specifically for an exempt reason, or if they were in your household or support bubble.

The law said people could gather indoors for work, so Matt and Gina are OK on that score. The law is silent on whether, having so gathered, it was in order to put on a show to titillate security guards.

The law said people could gather indoors for work if it was "reasonably necessary for work purposes", not that they could gather indoors regardless.

If I follow that viewpoint Matt seems to be implying that Gina was providing "adult services" as part of the duties she performed.

Sandpit said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

OldKingCole said:

eek said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. kle4, not so much a deliberate design to copy the tedium as the fact street circuits are quicker to 'create' and countries that want to pay cash for marketing find them convenient.

Unfortunately, Baku excepted, they tend to be very boring...

If I'm likely to head to any race to watch in person, Baku would be my favourite option simply because I have zero other reason to go there.

Now if Istanbul has a race in 2022 we will go there as it would tie in with a holiday round Istanbul.

Monaco is, I believe, popular as a 'go to' with the backroom teams.

Somewhere is a Jeremy Clarkson programme on Monaco where all the F1 drivers explain they live there because it is so convenient for the Grand Prix. So by a circular argument, there has to be a Grand Prix in Monaco or the drivers and team bosses would have to live in less convenient countries and pay income tax.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_ObRzF8I5DE

Rather amusing to see most of them come up with contrived reasons for loving Monaco, when the real reason so many touring sportspeople live year, is of course because they are what a former prime minister called citizens of nowhere, and there’s no income tax for foreign residents in Monaco.

Didn't Hamilton I think point out he pays income tax in 23 different countries so removing cross border insanity on top starts to make sense.

another_richard said:

rottenborough said:

James O'Brien
@mrjamesob
·
1h
It’s not the infidelity, it’s the sacrifices everyone else made because *he* told them to that might yet do for Hancock. This isn’t going away.

To be brutally realistic the sacrifices were generally good advice to stop people catching a dangerous virus.

Hancock was infected last year and was at minimal risk subsequently.

I suspect few previously infected people have been following covid restrictions with the rigour they would have if they hadn't been infected. Ditto for those vaccinated.

yeah but the best way to get people to follow orders is to lead by example . He clearly has not done that and really it is incredulous he is still in the job

surprised batley and spen betting has not moved away from the tories because of this. Get on labour or even galloway i say

isam said:

🤣

God this is even worse with the audio




https://twitter.com/ofalafel/status/1408539929798483972?s=21

@ofalafel's next joke is good as well:-
"Fantastic rollout – 76% of adults over 40 have now been offered the Tottenham Hotspur manager's job."