Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
This time yesteday I called on Hancock to resign and the fact he has not done so is unacceptable, and this conservative member has no hesitation in condemning Hancock's hypocrisy and if he is still in office by Monday, then Boris has to sack him
Failing that, the conservative mps need to question just how they can make Hancock go and even start considering just how long they are prepared to continue with Boris if he refuses yet again to do the right thing
Enough is enough and following Cummings debacle a repeat performance is just not acceptable
It is clear the conservative press have long since disliked Hancock and they are leading the pack for his dismissal and on this occasion I support their demands
However, I would also say to the press just leave Hancock's wife and her husband alone and keep away from their homes
This is a personal crisis for the families, and of course there is no doubt that Hancock's self inflicted own goal will deflect from his responsibilities.
It is inconceivable that he could lead a covid press conference
For goodness sake, Hancock, do the right thing for once and resign
However, my mood will be greatly improved later today when Wales beat Denmark
Have you made your displeasure known to local Torys and your chair and MP?
It is important that members and the public put the pressure on this weekend. Telegraph reports that the view in No 10 is that he has to go if enough of the public say enough is enough of this rule breaking and one rule for us and one rule for them.
This time yesteday I called on Hancock to resign and the fact he has not done so is unacceptable, and this conservative member has no hesitation in condemning Hancock's hypocrisy and if he is still in office by Monday, then Boris has to sack him
No offence to you personally but it's most amusing to see a Conservative trying to take the moral high ground over this or anything else.
You may be surprised just how many there are of us
Oh give over. "I was forced to vote for a party I know to be corrupt lying and degenerate because the other parties made me do it" is not a moral high ground.
Mancock broke the Covid rules and probably laws. So what? Did Cummings resign? Mancock broke the ministerial code (again). So what? Did Mancock or Patel or Johnson resign? Mancock breached the trust of his colleagues by being a duplicitous lying shit. So what? His boss endlessly lies and cheats, and his colleague the Secretary of State for the Home Department bullied her colleagues and did either of them resign?
Whats more, do you call for their resignations? Would you like to do so now? If breaking the law is bad then Johnson must resign. If breaking the code is bad then Mancock and Johnson and Patel all must resign. Wasting public money on your bit of stuff in office - Johnson and Arcuri. Lying and cheating.
You have backed every single one of these people on every single occasion when they have done a Mancock including himself in the past! Nor are you doing this as a damascene conversion to ethics and probity as you've just said you'll be voting Tory even if they all stay!
Hypocricy? "Moral High Ground"?
Please
I really am not interested in your hysteria and anti HMG diatribe nor your attempt to take the moral high ground
Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Unless it was a hidden camera.
Which would become all the more intriguing. Who installed it, when - and with what purpose...?
Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Unless it was a hidden camera.
Which would become all the more intriguing. Who installed it, when - and with what purpose...?
Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Unless it was a hidden camera.
Which would become all the more intriguing. Who installed it, when - and with what purpose...?
And who put the sign up saying: "stand here for snogging"?
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
To be fair, as with most crimes, he was only breaking the law in a limited and specific way. The attorney general has set a precedent that this is acceptable government behaviour.
The problem Hancock(/ Johnson if he won’t sack him) has in many respects is that, as other people have pointed out, that the line about “private affair” doesn’t stack up when the Govt have over the past 15 months made everyone’s private affair public by default. And not just through guidance to act in certain ways, but actually legislated against it. Now it maybe that, just as in most cases the offence does not technically breach the law, or is anyway pretty unenforceable if it does, but that’s not really the point.
When there are clips all over the place of Hancock enthusiastically encouraging the police to get involved in even the slightest misdemeanours then people have a right to get angry.
I also haven’t been following totally closely, so I might have missed key things, but there appears to be a great deal of fudging about whether this was a one off incident rather than a long running affair. There was the statement that social distancing rules were broken “on this occasion”. But no statement about “a moment of weakness leading to a mistake in a high pressure situation and the end of one particularly stressful day”. If he could confidently say the latter then I think it would put him in a massively stronger position. But the fact that he can’t (assuming he hasn’t) is revealing. And problematic. Ferguson, for example was making regular trips to see his partner. Cummings, whilst totally cackhandedly handled, had the defence that he was looking out for his family.
This time yesteday I called on Hancock to resign and the fact he has not done so is unacceptable, and this conservative member has no hesitation in condemning Hancock's hypocrisy and if he is still in office by Monday, then Boris has to sack him
No offence to you personally but it's most amusing to see a Conservative trying to take the moral high ground over this or anything else.
You may be surprised just how many there are of us
Oh give over. "I was forced to vote for a party I know to be corrupt lying and degenerate because the other parties made me do it" is not a moral high ground.
Mancock broke the Covid rules and probably laws. So what? Did Cummings resign? Mancock broke the ministerial code (again). So what? Did Mancock or Patel or Johnson resign? Mancock breached the trust of his colleagues by being a duplicitous lying shit. So what? His boss endlessly lies and cheats, and his colleague the Secretary of State for the Home Department bullied her colleagues and did either of them resign?
Whats more, do you call for their resignations? Would you like to do so now? If breaking the law is bad then Johnson must resign. If breaking the code is bad then Mancock and Johnson and Patel all must resign. Wasting public money on your bit of stuff in office - Johnson and Arcuri. Lying and cheating.
You have backed every single one of these people on every single occasion when they have done a Mancock including himself in the past! Nor are you doing this as a damascene conversion to ethics and probity as you've just said you'll be voting Tory even if they all stay!
Hypocricy? "Moral High Ground"?
Please
I really am not interested in your hysteria and anti HMG diatribe nor your attempt to take the moral high ground
Which is fair enough if you took a consistent approach with non CP antics, for example from memory, Kinnock visiting parents and SNP MP Ferrier (who I felt really sorry for at the time).
I think this is a dreadful time for everyone and all should be cut some slack. Instead, much of the public seem intent on blaming others.
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.
"Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations 2021, gatherings of two or more indoors were illegal except for permitted purposes such as “work”. But a work gathering had to be “reasonably necessary” to fall within the exception and be legal. We know that Matt Hancock has more front than Blackpool, but even he wouldn’t dare claim that his bit on the side was either reasonable or necessary."
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
Blame culture now innit. MPs will want 19 July laws rescinded if just to guard against this lynch mob mentality happening again. If a supermarket worker (who has carried on working throughout) walked home hand-in-hand with a fellow supermarket worker - who cares?
This time yesteday I called on Hancock to resign and the fact he has not done so is unacceptable, and this conservative member has no hesitation in condemning Hancock's hypocrisy and if he is still in office by Monday, then Boris has to sack him
No offence to you personally but it's most amusing to see a Conservative trying to take the moral high ground over this or anything else.
You may be surprised just how many there are of us
Oh give over. "I was forced to vote for a party I know to be corrupt lying and degenerate because the other parties made me do it" is not a moral high ground.
Mancock broke the Covid rules and probably laws. So what? Did Cummings resign? Mancock broke the ministerial code (again). So what? Did Mancock or Patel or Johnson resign? Mancock breached the trust of his colleagues by being a duplicitous lying shit. So what? His boss endlessly lies and cheats, and his colleague the Secretary of State for the Home Department bullied her colleagues and did either of them resign?
Whats more, do you call for their resignations? Would you like to do so now? If breaking the law is bad then Johnson must resign. If breaking the code is bad then Mancock and Johnson and Patel all must resign. Wasting public money on your bit of stuff in office - Johnson and Arcuri. Lying and cheating.
You have backed every single one of these people on every single occasion when they have done a Mancock including himself in the past! Nor are you doing this as a damascene conversion to ethics and probity as you've just said you'll be voting Tory even if they all stay!
Hypocricy? "Moral High Ground"?
Please
I really am not interested in your hysteria and anti HMG diatribe nor your attempt to take the moral high ground
Which is fair enough if you took a consistent approach with non CP antics, for example from memory, Kinnock visiting parents and SNP MP Ferrier (who I felt really sorry for at the time).
I think this is a dreadful time for everyone and all should be cut some slack. Instead, much of the public seem intent on blaming others.
Yep. Raging hypocrisy made funnier by claiming to be making a moral judgement. I have now said repeatedly that I see no reason for Mancock to go as he has done nothing that his colleagues haven't already done. If BigG wants to pretend that this and this alone is bad when all the other things he supported (bother verbally and by continuing to be a Tory voter) are not then I can only scratch my head and wonder whatever happened to consistency.
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.
I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.
A series of restrictions assuming continued social distancing for a Christmas market as a result of which it will run at a loss. Surely the need for those things will be ancient history by then?
When setting out the rules they can’t do anything but apply the law as it stands. I’d assume they will revisit as and when social distancing is reduced
I don’t agree. Otherwise Silverstone, to take one example, wouldn’t be selling hundreds of thousands of tickets. They can reasonably assess what the law will be and then revisit it if things do not go as expected.
The default assumption you have described is a part of the problem and a demonstration of how the dead hand of these regulations can reach into the future if we let it.
This is a council acting as rule maker rather than a commercial operation making a business call
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
Or that they are snowflakes seeking to be offended perhaps?
Why do you get pleasure from other people's family crisis
That picture is a gross invasion of privacy. These are not public figures.
It is but that is the price we pay for our media. Noone knows what the respective marriages were like and its no ones business least of all the Sun with its paparazzi camera. It should worry the hell out of Govt that secret documents could be spied upon in this way.
Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Unless it was a hidden camera.
Which would become all the more intriguing. Who installed it, when - and with what purpose...?
I think long lens from an opposite building is more likely. "CCTV"? Hmmmm. Paint me skeptical. Surveillance, perhaps by a wife who suspects her husband of an affair? That I could buy....
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
Who in the Tory party doesn't want him gone after yesterday's bombshell?
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.
"Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations 2021, gatherings of two or more indoors were illegal except for permitted purposes such as “work”. But a work gathering had to be “reasonably necessary” to fall within the exception and be legal. We know that Matt Hancock has more front than Blackpool, but even he wouldn’t dare claim that his bit on the side was either reasonable or necessary."
Telegraph
The functioning of government was clearly of "reasonable necessity" and this is what the law was designed to exempt. Social contact outside of work would not be similarly exempt. So I don't think the work exemption can apply here.
But - applying common sense (in short supply I know) - if you have been in close contact with someone for 8 hours indoors at work perfectly legitimately, how can it be illegitimate to be in close social contact with them immediately afterwards in an outdoor setting?
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
Or that they are snowflakes seeking to be offended perhaps?
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.
I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.
I can't see how that is the case?
The police were faster than Hawaii 5 O when it was two lasses taking a walk in a Derbyshire park.
Have the police been to see Hancock yet? He looks to have broken the law over covid say leading lawyers.
I saw several tweets yesterday saying the polis weren’t going to prosecute because it would be retrospective. As more than one person pointed out, pretty much all police investigations are retrospective.
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
Have the police been to see Hancock yet? He looks to have broken the law over covid say leading lawyers.
I saw several tweets yesterday saying the polis weren’t going to prosecute because it would be retrospective. As more than one person pointed out, pretty much all police investigations are retrospective.
They don’t act when it’s happening before their eyes either, ask Nick Watt
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
He does, now, but I don't pin the leak on him - trying to get rid of Hancock using the affair would be idiotic even by his standards.
Someone senior in the Tory party wants Hancock out of the team.
This is difficult for me as I think that Hancock should go for breaching his own rules - but I wouldn't want to see The S*n given the satisfaction of a scalp.
Supporting something simply because it 'annoys the right people' is a bad trend in politics, and the same can apply for opposing something simply because it will 'please the wrong people'.
So I think we can get over it.
Let's play my favourite game, swap Tory for Labour and let's see the reaction then. They would be calling for the person's head and rightfully so
Which is why Starmer isn't saying anything.. too many skeletons within Labour. Hypocrisy isn't restricted to the Tories...
Yes, but little things like that didn't bother Blair.
I think you always go for the jugular as LotO. Sometimes it'll work, and sometimes it'll just be forgotten. But you should always try. That's what differentiates a political genius like Blair from a mediocre plodder like Starmer.
On the contrary. The LoO stays above the fray. Other ministers go for it and do the hard work. You introduce the LoO when the victory is in the bag.
It’s like chess
As in, Labour's King is weak, vulnerable and has to be protected behind a wall of pawns - but comes into his own in the endgame?
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
One of the more compelling reasons Johnson has on a personal/political level for ending lockdown earlier must surely now be that it would greatly simplify a reshuffle.
One of the good things about this from a personal point of view is that it makes it less likely Hancock will get Education.* Although he would have been better than Williamson, that would be like saying being drowned is better than being burned alive.
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
I'm sure you are right. Resignation would be cleanest solution for Johnson. But on the other hand, how vital is Hancock in the ongoing situation and could he be replaced?
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Have the police been to see Hancock yet? He looks to have broken the law over covid say leading lawyers.
I saw several tweets yesterday saying the polis weren’t going to prosecute because it would be retrospective. As more than one person pointed out, pretty much all police investigations are retrospective.
Er, yes. You can’t investigate crimes before they happen.
Unless you are either Mazher Mahmood (who committed them to write stories about them) or Tom Cruise’s character in Minority Report.
The most amazing thing in this Hancock affair is that he is still in office. Never seen a more clear cut case of needing to resign for years. Kay Burley (bless her) got cast into the wilderness for 6 months and she is a TV reporter who is not even making up these petty rules.
A lesson from this for lawmakers is dont make laws you know personally you will break.
This is difficult for me as I think that Hancock should go for breaching his own rules - but I wouldn't want to see The S*n given the satisfaction of a scalp.
Supporting something simply because it 'annoys the right people' is a bad trend in politics, and the same can apply for opposing something simply because it will 'please the wrong people'.
So I think we can get over it.
Let's play my favourite game, swap Tory for Labour and let's see the reaction then. They would be calling for the person's head and rightfully so
Which is why Starmer isn't saying anything.. too many skeletons within Labour. Hypocrisy isn't restricted to the Tories...
Yes, but little things like that didn't bother Blair.
I think you always go for the jugular as LotO. Sometimes it'll work, and sometimes it'll just be forgotten. But you should always try. That's what differentiates a political genius like Blair from a mediocre plodder like Starmer.
On the contrary. The LoO stays above the fray. Other ministers go for it and do the hard work. You introduce the LoO when the victory is in the bag.
It’s like chess
As in, Labour's King is weak, vulnerable and has to be protected behind a wall of pawns - but comes into his own in the endgame?
Allegedly Starmer would be on very shaky ground attacking Mancock for an affair at work...
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
He does, now, but I don't pin the leak on him - trying to get rid of Hancock using the affair would be idiotic even by his standards.
Someone senior in the Tory party wants Hancock out of the team.
My 4d chess argument is that Gove wants him out of the Cabinet pouring ordure onto Sunak's head for delaying the autumn lockdown last year from the backbenches, as the multiple inquiries into Covid get going and the blame-pointing begins.
In one move Gove would damage two rivals for the top job.
Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Suggestion today is it was concealed inside a smoke detector
Rather amused this morning to read some of the spat on twitter between Owen Jones and fellow lefties (who think he supports GG, and so by extension the homophobe who was shouting at Leadbetter)
OJ argues that he doesn't support GG; he just interviewed him. And says that GG and homophobe aren't really left wing - they supported Brexit.
AND homophobe was interviewed by Katie Hopkins, which proves he's a fascist.
But the biggest tell for OJ seems to be not that homophobe is a homophobe and a racist. And pro-Brexit. And pals with Nazi Hopkins.
Get this..
He's a property developer
UGH
Oh. And Hancock should have been sacked already, from another Tory.
This time yesteday I called on Hancock to resign and the fact he has not done so is unacceptable, and this conservative member has no hesitation in condemning Hancock's hypocrisy and if he is still in office by Monday, then Boris has to sack him
No offence to you personally but it's most amusing to see a Conservative trying to take the moral high ground over this or anything else.
You may be surprised just how many there are of us
My son and his partner are threatened with a £10,000 fine at their wedding on the 31st July if they breach social distancing regulations and Hancock's is the architect of this rule which he simply does not apply to himself
Enough is enough and we all need to be released on the 19th July from this nonsense
I think the crkiticism, which you could also apply to me on occasions in the past (I'm not especially critical at th emoment), is that you find various things about your preferred party and its leadership completely unacceptable, but when it comes to it you loyally vote for them anyway. The confidence that most supporters are like you (and me) is a reason why leaderships feel they can shrug off criticism. Unless more people follow the much-derided example of Bercow and actually switch (obviously reserving the right to switch back), I don't think Johnson will change in any way.
On another subject, here's an illuminating and sympathetic account of why the AZ vaccine ran into generally underserved difficulty:
The most amazing thing in this Hancock affair is that he is still in office. Never seen a more clear cut case of needing to resign for years. Kay Burley (bless her) got cast into the wilderness for 6 months and she is a TV reporter who is not even making up these petty rules.
A lesson from this for lawmakers is dont make laws you know personally you will break.
The only lesson they will take from this is dont get caught!
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
I'm sure you are right. Resignation would be cleanest solution for Johnson. But on the other hand, how vital is Hancock in the ongoing situation and could he be replaced?
I put it to you that Hancock's mind hasn't been fully on the job for some time. I can think of at least two MPs who could step up who seem to be somewhat more focused shall we say.
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
I can say that if the conservative mps are anything like David Jones, then they are actively demanding Hancock goes and they are letting the whips office know with no equivocation whatsoever
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury. ‘The cherry on the cake… but there’s no cake’ - Tony Adams on Ozil
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Who knows... perhaps it would have been an awful.lot worse if he hadnt....
The problem Hancock(/ Johnson if he won’t sack him) has in many respects is that, as other people have pointed out, that the line about “private affair” doesn’t stack up when the Govt have over the past 15 months made everyone’s private affair public by default. And not just through guidance to act in certain ways, but actually legislated against it. Now it maybe that, just as in most cases the offence does not technically breach the law, or is anyway pretty unenforceable if it does, but that’s not really the point.
When there are clips all over the place of Hancock enthusiastically encouraging the police to get involved in even the slightest misdemeanours then people have a right to get angry.
I also haven’t been following totally closely, so I might have missed key things, but there appears to be a great deal of fudging about whether this was a one off incident rather than a long running affair. There was the statement that social distancing rules were broken “on this occasion”. But no statement about “a moment of weakness leading to a mistake in a high pressure situation and the end of one particularly stressful day”. If he could confidently say the latter then I think it would put him in a massively stronger position. But the fact that he can’t (assuming he hasn’t) is revealing. And problematic. Ferguson, for example was making regular trips to see his partner. Cummings, whilst totally cackhandedly handled, had the defence that he was looking out for his family.
But Hancock?
My assumption is it’s a long running affair
It’s why she was appointed as an unofficial/unpaid aide
And then when people asked what she was doing there was made a non-executive director at the department
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
He does, now, but I don't pin the leak on him - trying to get rid of Hancock using the affair would be idiotic even by his standards.
Someone senior in the Tory party wants Hancock out of the team.
My 4d chess argument is that Gove wants him out of the Cabinet pouring ordure onto Sunak's head for delaying the autumn lockdown last year from the backbenches, as the multiple inquiries into Covid get going and the blame-pointing begins.
In one move Gove would damage two rivals for the top job.
Certainly, having Hancock already disgraced when the inquiry begins will make it easy for the powers to pin any failings identified on him, rather than....
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
I'm sure you are right. Resignation would be cleanest solution for Johnson. But on the other hand, how vital is Hancock in the ongoing situation and could he be replaced?
I put it to you that Hancock's mind hasn't been fully on the job for some time. I can think of at least two MPs who could step up who seem to be somewhat more focused shall we say.
One would have thought that Hancock's vital and intense role in getting the country through all this would preclude any extra-marital shenanigans? Setting apart any moral aspects he shouldn't have had the time or focus for this.
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
I can say that if the conservative mps are anything like David Jones, then they are actively demanding Hancock goes and they are letting the whips office know with no equivocation whatsoever
Are you sure that is what is happening, or have they been given permission by the whips office to tell you that, as happened over Cummings? With then nothing happening.
Thomas and Froome sign letter calling for help for riders affected by Brexit - Open letter sent to government highlighting travel obstacles - Rules limit British athletes’ time spent in European Union
“The impact of Covid-19 across Europe has masked the problem in 2021, due to the subsequent restrictions in place on travel across borders. We fear that the absence of a robust solution by 2022 - whether in the form of an amateur sportspersons visa or other agreement – will see many riders lose the opportunity to gain such critical experience.”
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
The PM. He doesnt want to sack him because it sets a precedent that incompetence and/or sleaze is unacceptable, which would require a brand new cabinet. He doesnt want him to stay as everyone knows the PM called him hopeless but left him in charge of the most important cabinet role over the last 75 years.
He must want Hancock to resign.
I'm sure you are right. Resignation would be cleanest solution for Johnson. But on the other hand, how vital is Hancock in the ongoing situation and could he be replaced?
I put it to you that Hancock's mind hasn't been fully on the job for some time. I can think of at least two MPs who could step up who seem to be somewhat more focused shall we say.
Your point is rejected, due to being based on the false premise that Hancock has a mind.
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
Specifically, what law has he broken? I mean law, not guidelines. And remember this was a work colleague and working could continue.
I am not sure that qualifies as work in the Civil Service code.
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
I think the point is that you don’t have to socially distance with work colleagues - or to the extent that you do it is guidance. What the “work activities” actually are is irrelevant.
I don't think that is correct. The work activities need to be "reasonably necessary for work purposes" to create the exemption from gatherings.
I can't see how that is the case?
The police were faster than Hawaii 5 O when it was two lasses taking a walk in a Derbyshire park.
Good to see DavidL posting, reasonably cheerfully too. And he's obviously found a phone charger! Which is also good!
Someone up thread mentioned a video of Hancock's 'antics'; if something even moderately salacious gets about, surely his position will, as is said, become untenable.
And I agree that Jeremy Hunt could probably get up to speed quickly. Isn't the No2 in the Department Helen Whatley, though? She ought to know what's going on. Although ......
If Mancock has to resign then doesn't the pack turn on its next target? He has done nothing wrong* from the perspective of a party where everything is acceptable. His boss and colleagues have all done bad and the PM simply ignores it.
If bad is now a resignation offence won't they all end up going one at a time? Mancock wasted money so lets go after the PM. Mancock broke the Ministerial Code so lets go after Patel and the PM. Mancock lied so lets go after the PM and Patel and Williamson and we'll be here all day.
No wonder Shagger says "cased closed"...
That is true. Johnson and Hancock need to front this out until Friday, by which time we will all be laughing hysterically at the hapless Starmer and Ledbetter.
Electoral failure trumps corruption and infidelity any day of the week, particularly on the Friday after a by-election.
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
I agree with the majority that the person setting the rules has to be squeaky clean in observing them, and that if they aren't, then they have to go. But I also agree with the view that if Hancock has to resign, then so does nearly everybody else, including Johnson, and for that reason he stays.
Anyway, this government is clear that is is OK to break the law in a 'limited and specific way' - so that's all right then.
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
I can say that if the conservative mps are anything like David Jones, then they are actively demanding Hancock goes and they are letting the whips office know with no equivocation whatsoever
Are you sure that is what is happening, or have they been given permission by the whips office to tell you that, as happened over Cummings? With then nothing happening.
I have had a personal text from David Jones so yes it is happening
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
He was the anti-Pires. When Bobby played well, Arsenal played well. With Mesut, unless the rest of the team was functioning he was a waste of space.
Fun fact, did you know there is faith room at The Emirates?
I actually think the best thing fans can do is to ignore players taking the knee. If they feel they have to do it then let them get on with it. In a few years time no one will remember why they are doing it.
Thomas and Froome sign letter calling for help for riders affected by Brexit - Open letter sent to government highlighting travel obstacles - Rules limit British athletes’ time spent in European Union
“The impact of Covid-19 across Europe has masked the problem in 2021, due to the subsequent restrictions in place on travel across borders. We fear that the absence of a robust solution by 2022 - whether in the form of an amateur sportspersons visa or other agreement – will see many riders lose the opportunity to gain such critical experience.”
yes a real shame for no good reason . Brexit will have an impact like this in many ways and more so as spats develop between GB and EU which then will have little tit for tat measures affecting individuals. Brexit was a huge mistake
This time yesteday I called on Hancock to resign and the fact he has not done so is unacceptable, and this conservative member has no hesitation in condemning Hancock's hypocrisy and if he is still in office by Monday, then Boris has to sack him
No offence to you personally but it's most amusing to see a Conservative trying to take the moral high ground over this or anything else.
You may be surprised just how many there are of us
Oh give over. "I was forced to vote for a party I know to be corrupt lying and degenerate because the other parties made me do it" is not a moral high ground.
Mancock broke the Covid rules and probably laws. So what? Did Cummings resign? Mancock broke the ministerial code (again). So what? Did Mancock or Patel or Johnson resign? Mancock breached the trust of his colleagues by being a duplicitous lying shit. So what? His boss endlessly lies and cheats, and his colleague the Secretary of State for the Home Department bullied her colleagues and did either of them resign?
Whats more, do you call for their resignations? Would you like to do so now? If breaking the law is bad then Johnson must resign. If breaking the code is bad then Mancock and Johnson and Patel all must resign. Wasting public money on your bit of stuff in office - Johnson and Arcuri. Lying and cheating.
You have backed every single one of these people on every single occasion when they have done a Mancock including himself in the past! Nor are you doing this as a damascene conversion to ethics and probity as you've just said you'll be voting Tory even if they all stay!
Hypocricy? "Moral High Ground"?
Please
I really am not interested in your hysteria and anti HMG diatribe nor your attempt to take the moral high ground
Which is fair enough if you took a consistent approach with non CP antics, for example from memory, Kinnock visiting parents and SNP MP Ferrier (who I felt really sorry for at the time).
I think this is a dreadful time for everyone and all should be cut some slack. Instead, much of the public seem intent on blaming others.
I supported Margaret Ferrier at the time (she is clearly not very bright, and got herself into a situation in which she made some stupid choices).
As you say, the normal human reaction is one of sympathy, though my recollection is pb.com's Lynch-Mob was baying for blood.
And I am happy to support Hancock against the Lynch Mob.
David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.
Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night
Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need. Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.
I cannot understand why there is even debate on this.
Hancock has broken the law and yet is still a senior government minister.
Extraordinary. As others have said this government is increasingly morally bankrupt.
I agree with the majority that the person setting the rules has to be squeaky clean in observing them, and that if they aren't, then they have to go. But I also agree with the view that if Hancock has to resign, then so does nearly everybody else, including Johnson, and for that reason he stays.
Anyway, this government is clear that is is OK to break the law in a 'limited and specific way' - so that's all right then.
One thing that puzzled me about the Cummings affair was how loyally Hancock defended him over his flagrant breaches of the law.
I have only got more puzzled as Cummings has released further information about how toxic their relationship was and how much they hate and despise each other.
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
The use that dreadful neologism this episode has 100% cut through. I am in a Discord group with a few other motorcycle enthusiasts that we use to discuss MotoGP while watching it. It's always been completely apolitical but yesterday somebody offered this unprompted analysis: "If I was Johnson I would get Hancock in my office and smash him in the fucking face."
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
I can say that if the conservative mps are anything like David Jones, then they are actively demanding Hancock goes and they are letting the whips office know with no equivocation whatsoever
Are you sure that is what is happening, or have they been given permission by the whips office to tell you that, as happened over Cummings? With then nothing happening.
I have had a personal text from David Jones so yes it is happening
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
The use that dreadful neologism this episode has 100% cut through. I am in a Discord group with a few other motorcycle enthusiasts that we use to discuss MotoGP while watching it. It's always been completely apolitical but yesterday somebody offered this unprompted analysis: "If I was Johnson I would get Hancock in my office and smash him in the fucking face."
If that was the face he was using in the video, an insufficiency of it was exposed for the fist to make contact...
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
He was the anti-Pires. When Bobby played well, Arsenal played well. With Mesut, unless the rest of the team was functioning he was a waste of space.
Fun fact, did you know there is faith room at The Emirates?
I actually think the best thing fans can do is to ignore players taking the knee. If they feel they have to do it then let them get on with it. In a few years time no one will remember why they are doing it.
‘The cherry on the cake, but there’s no cake’ was Tony Adams verdict on Mesut. I make him right, but still loved Ozil style of play. You’re right though, he couldn’t win you a game in his own, he was more of a facilitator of other players
The problem Hancock(/ Johnson if he won’t sack him) has in many respects is that, as other people have pointed out, that the line about “private affair” doesn’t stack up when the Govt have over the past 15 months made everyone’s private affair public by default. And not just through guidance to act in certain ways, but actually legislated against it. Now it maybe that, just as in most cases the offence does not technically breach the law, or is anyway pretty unenforceable if it does, but that’s not really the point.
When there are clips all over the place of Hancock enthusiastically encouraging the police to get involved in even the slightest misdemeanours then people have a right to get angry.
I also haven’t been following totally closely, so I might have missed key things, but there appears to be a great deal of fudging about whether this was a one off incident rather than a long running affair. There was the statement that social distancing rules were broken “on this occasion”. But no statement about “a moment of weakness leading to a mistake in a high pressure situation and the end of one particularly stressful day”. If he could confidently say the latter then I think it would put him in a massively stronger position. But the fact that he can’t (assuming he hasn’t) is revealing. And problematic. Ferguson, for example was making regular trips to see his partner. Cummings, whilst totally cackhandedly handled, had the defence that he was looking out for his family.
But Hancock?
My assumption is it’s a long running affair
It’s why she was appointed as an unofficial/unpaid aide
And then when people asked what she was doing there was made a non-executive director at the department
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury. ‘The cherry on the cake… but there’s no cake’ - Tony Adams on Ozil
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
Nobody wishes to disrespect deep convictions but those that really have them (and not those who merge with showing off/virtue showing) tend to do them in private. Not sure why Ozil could not do his praying in the dressing room /toilet etc just before . I dont think the Koran makes a distinction between a open arena and a dressing room for prayer for instance. Spectators go to sport to watch sport , they dont go for religion or indeed politics or moral crusades
Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
I quite like there being someone both competent and clean of this government being ready and able to take over one day. It won't happen but Hunt on the backbenches helps retain a sliver of hope.
Out of interest, if you are having a secret office fling and scuttle off somewhere quiet to go both cheeks and a throat swab, surely you consider things like CCTV.
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Unless it was a hidden camera.
Which would become all the more intriguing. Who installed it, when - and with what purpose...?
If there are Russian video cameras pointing at the SOS for Health, why not the big man too? Let's hope he has kept his trousers on.
Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
I quite like there being someone both competent and clean of this government being ready and able to take over one day. It won't happen but Hunt on the backbenches helps retain a sliver of hope.
Sudden throught.
Hancock has to stay.
If he’s removed, Health might get Gove or Williamson...
David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.
Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night
Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need. Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.
I woke up in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary in 1964 being very sick in the early hours of the morning having suffered concussion playing football and had partial amnesia for several months.
An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
I can say that if the conservative mps are anything like David Jones, then they are actively demanding Hancock goes and they are letting the whips office know with no equivocation whatsoever
Are you sure that is what is happening, or have they been given permission by the whips office to tell you that, as happened over Cummings? With then nothing happening.
I have had a personal text from David Jones so yes it is happening
Perhaps pressure from his own MPs is the most likely mechanism for Hancock's removal, if it becomes such a tide that Johnson can no longer resist?
Johnson can't make a decision and he hates giving bad news to people. I think that's why there has never been a reshuffle. In effect, a bunch of MPs will be making the decision for him.
Surely Hancock would see this coming and resign beforehand? Will he make it through the weekend?
Smarkets have:
"Hancock to remain Health Secretary on 1 July": 1.45 Yes, 2.42 No (I've had a tenner on No).
"Raab vs Hancock - first to go": Hancock 1.17, Raab 4.6.
Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
I quite like there being someone both competent and clean of this government being ready and able to take over one day. It won't happen but Hunt on the backbenches helps retain a sliver of hope.
Sudden throught.
Hancock has to stay.
If he’s removed, Health might get Gove or Williamson...
Exactly. Instead of piling on the blame and vengeance-seeking we should ask who is the best for this vital role. For all I know this could be Hancock given his knowledge of the situation and vital contact to date. Dunno.
Have the police been to see Hancock yet? He looks to have broken the law over covid say leading lawyers.
I saw several tweets yesterday saying the polis weren’t going to prosecute because it would be retrospective. As more than one person pointed out, pretty much all police investigations are retrospective.
Er, yes. You can’t investigate crimes before they happen.
Unless you are either Mazher Mahmood (who committed them to write stories about them) or Tom Cruise’s character in Minority Report.
Given that Matt Hancock watching Contagion informed the UK vaccine strategy, best keep Priti Patel away from the DVD player.
Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
I quite like there being someone both competent and clean of this government being ready and able to take over one day. It won't happen but Hunt on the backbenches helps retain a sliver of hope.
Sudden throught.
Hancock has to stay.
If he’s removed, Health might get Gove or Williamson...
Nah, you'd end up with Dowden at Health, Williamson would get shunted off to Culture, and Gove would go back to Education - which I'm sure you'd really, really love.
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury. ‘The cherry on the cake… but there’s no cake’ - Tony Adams on Ozil
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
Nobody wishes to disrespect deep convictions but those that really have them (and not those who merge with showing off/virtue showing) tend to do them in private. Not sure why Ozil could not do his praying in the dressing room /toilet etc just before . I dont think the Koran makes a distinction between a open arena and a dressing room for prayer for instance. Spectators go to sport to watch sport , they dont go for religion or indeed politics or moral crusades
I guess that there is a certain kind of grim satisfaction in watching the Tories tie themselves into knots defending the indefensible. However, as low grade loathsome as Hancock is, the real story is not his pathetic little fling and the abject incompetence and dishonesty that it exposes.
The real story is who released the CCTV and associated corroboration and why? It could, of course, be more of the brutal, but ultimately shallow revenge of Cummings. However it seems that the source may be elsewhere. Murdoch flexing his muscles re:GB News? Except that Rupes is distracted elsewhere (and is 90 after all) and it seems that this was not an in house sting from The Sun. More to the point BoJo has been a pretty big player in the media world and knows that he can probably face it down (albeit at a cost of buckets of shit hitting his head for a few weeks, which he figures he can brazen out as he has done so many times before).
If not Cummings or Press, then there are other, more insidious enemies that BoJo must face. Although there is no beginning to the talents of the current Cabinet there are several individuals who are quite capable of this kind of stitch up... Gove on manoeuvres?
Some clown here said yesterday that by calling for Hancocks resignation, the Lib Dems had missed an open goal. I don´t think I was the only one to vent a gentle belly laugh at that.
No, we want the Tories to rally round the loathsome twerp, keep him in office, and remind the voters what a bunch of third rate chancers the Tories have become. If they snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory in B&S, then Hancock will of course be gone. If a victory then the story will be dismissed as a storm in a teacup. Either way BoJo ticks off the media
And, if he survives the media will be very angry indeed... So expect more of the same: Tory closet cases, sordid affairs, mild scandals... but not yet the real meat of how these incompetent shits have been helping themselves to taxpayers cash on a scale never seen in my lifetime.
Because, though it would suit many Tories here to pretend that "they are all the same", the fact is that this government is demonstrably worse: more incompetent, more corrupt, more arrogant and much more dangerous than any other we have seen since the CABAL of the 1670s.
It is now not just a crisis of this party of government, it is a crisis of the system of government, and that could lead us into to some very unexpected places quite quickly. C&A may have been a typical by election flash in the pan. However it does signify a growing contempt for what is going on in Downing St and beyond. So let us watch this pathetic Tory gladiatorial circus and laugh, but meanwhile the forces of Attila are massing outside the limes of the City of Rome.
Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
Hunt would be the obvious choice
Jeremy Hunt, the leadership rival to Boris, or Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary who suppressed the Exercise Cygnus findings about pandemics? I will not be betting on Hunt's return.
David, I saw you post that you were unwell, but then missed several threads (Midsommar celebrations etc). I assume that all went well in the end? Glad to see you posting.
Still in hospital Stuart , hence the posts in the middle of the night
Sorry to hear that, but I hope you’re getting the help you need. Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.
I woke up in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary in 1964 being very sick in the early hours of the morning having suffered concussion playing football and had partial amnesia for several months.
An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell
I recently cycled a lot closer to the Royal Infirmary than I intended after taking a wrong turn in Little France park on my way to Craigmillar Castle.
I'd cheerfully used my bell to let a couple of plod know to make way for me as I passed them rapidly downhill, but then had to struggle back past them up the incline after realising my mistake.
The FA have asked Wembley staff to play loud music at kick-off during England's remaining European Championship matches to drown out the boos from some fans when Gareth Southgate's players take the knee.
I went to see LAFC vs Dallas on Wednesday evening (it was fab, btw). Before the game, the Dallas players took the knee, but the LAFC players didn't. Interestingly, LAFC is probably the least "white" team in the league.
Highlights below, should anyone be interested in the quality of MLS play:
Wrt to fans booing, it struck me that fans never booed Mesut Ozil for praying/reciting the Quaran before each match, nor other Muslims who do the same. I doubt they’d boo players who took the knee either, if it was something they did while everyone else was warming up. So it must be the formality of stopping and having a legislated minutes silence for it that causes people to boo, as much as any resentment or resistance to BLM
My problem with Ozil praying before each match was that it never seemed to do any good.
Ah he was a sublime talent. It didn’t work out as well as it might have, but I loved watching him play - a true artist. He saw passes no one else could. I think the truth is we weren’t good enough to have such a luxury
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
He was the anti-Pires. When Bobby played well, Arsenal played well. With Mesut, unless the rest of the team was functioning he was a waste of space.
Fun fact, did you know there is faith room at The Emirates?
I actually think the best thing fans can do is to ignore players taking the knee. If they feel they have to do it then let them get on with it. In a few years time no one will remember why they are doing it.
‘The cherry on the cake, but there’s no cake’ was Tony Adams verdict on Mesut. I make him right, but still loved Ozil style of play. You’re right though, he couldn’t win you a game in his own, he was more of a facilitator of other players
He was too tricksy for the team and they weren't up to responding. Patrick would have been more useful for that team. Picking up the ball on his own D and ending up outside the opposite penalty area in what seemed like three strides.
I actually heard people talking about the Hancock thing a few times when I was out last night. It's definitely been noticed, that is for sure.
I can say that if the conservative mps are anything like David Jones, then they are actively demanding Hancock goes and they are letting the whips office know with no equivocation whatsoever
Are you sure that is what is happening, or have they been given permission by the whips office to tell you that, as happened over Cummings? With then nothing happening.
I have had a personal text from David Jones so yes it is happening
Perhaps pressure from his own MPs is the most likely mechanism for Hancock's removal, if it becomes such a tide that Johnson can no longer resist?
Johnson can't make a decision and he hates giving bad news to people. I think that's why there has never been a reshuffle. In effect, a bunch of MPs will be making the decision for him.
Surely Hancock would see this coming and resign beforehand? Will he make it through the weekend?
Smarkets have:
"Hancock to remain Health Secretary on 1 July": 1.45 Yes, 2.42 No (I've had a tenner on No).
"Raab vs Hancock - first to go": Hancock 1.17, Raab 4.6.
Sometimes, BoJo is willing to be brutal. He sacked Julian Smith for being an effective NI sec, happily threw the Saj under a bus, kicked the No Deal sceptics out of the party.
But they had all crossed Boris The Boss personally, which Hanky Panky hasn't.
Would we all cheer if Hancock was replaced with Hunt this morning?
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
I quite like there being someone both competent and clean of this government being ready and able to take over one day. It won't happen but Hunt on the backbenches helps retain a sliver of hope.
Sudden throught.
Hancock has to stay.
If he’s removed, Health might get Gove or Williamson...
Nah, you'd end up with Dowden at Health, Williamson would get shunted off to Culture, and Gove would go back to Education - which I'm sure you'd really, really love.
Oh good grief.
It’s too late to resign this year...and I can’t face the thought of Gove again.
Couldn’t we have somebody less destructive, like Attila the Hun?
Possible scene: Hancock will go, and soon, but there are two things worse than going after a decent interval. One is to go instantaneously, because that shows signs of desperation and government by media (didn't John Major's government reach that point at one time, when it was doomed?); the other worse thing is to hang on for ever after a farrago like this.
And BTW this is not a police matter. On the evidence right now there is almost zero possibility of identifying a criminal issue.
Does anyone know how many senators will be shown the classified section of the UAP Taskforce report? All of them? Or just the intelligence committee and gang of 8?
I’m astounded (I really shouldnt be) that Philip and Robert can think the report no big deal. In plain language it states that they are a risk to flight safety and may be a risk to national security. Forget the rest, just consider that. They are a real physical phenomena that is categorically a risk to flight safety.
It goes on to say that they have no evidence they are from foreign adversaries. With all the trillions spent on military hardware, electronic surveillance, human sources etc… there’s “no evidence” they are from Russia or China. Let that part sink in.
And finally that at least 18 incidents showed “unusual flight characteristics”, namely very fast acceleration with no visible signs of propulsion.
These are incidents only recorded since 2004 and only by the Navy. Neither the Air Force or CIA cooperated with the report. In essence there are 18 (!) episodes equivalent to the famous Nimitz case involving David Fravor. That’s just the Navy and just those that were formally recorded.
And to Philip’s lament that “oh no they’re asking for more money”. When figures were last reported, the task force had an annual budget of just $22m. What do you think would be an appropriate percentage of the US military budget to spend further investigating physical objects around US military assets, that not only display technological signatures but have been categorised as: “clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security”?
A series of restrictions assuming continued social distancing for a Christmas market as a result of which it will run at a loss. Surely the need for those things will be ancient history by then?
Yes. It will take a while for people to adjust to the emergency being over.
We saw inertia at the beginning of the emergency and we will see inertia at the end. It will take some effort to overcome.
It’s important that we do. Not just for the economy but for our collective sanity. The restrictions imposed here by the Council are just wrong.
A bizarre reluctance to have the equivalent of vaccine passports has already cost us most of the benefits that should have accrued from our early vaccination. We must not lose the rest from silly restrictions after this is over.
This was one of the reasons why I despised the phrase, "the new normal." These restrictions were extraordinary and temporary - and now no longer necessary.
I can sympathise with people finding it hard to adjust, though. I see others calling it malevolence, and I just think it's simple psychology.
Agree on both.
The default should be no measures whatsoever, and imposed only when absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt, necessary. Not as some act of general caution. They are so impactful on a personal and economic level, the power granted so extreme, that they can only be defended or used under such a circumstance. We have had that - but not for much longer, if we're not already there.
I think it’s quite clear Hancock hasn’t been thought to be effective at all. I can disregard Cummings comments but the killer was Simon Stevens reaction for me when asked about Hancock.
So PBers are right - someone wants him gone. But now the risk is Boris’ competency is yet again bought back into the argument, by refusing to sack. Who benefits from Johnson’s government taking a hit in competency and popularity within the Tory party…
Comments
The camera is right in front of him. Directly. He doesn't see it? How dumb can you get?
Which would become all the more intriguing. Who installed it, when - and with what purpose...?
https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1408542203484553217?s=19
Damn, got me doing it as well now.
I am so bored of people hypocritically moaning about hypocrisy.
When there are clips all over the place of Hancock enthusiastically encouraging the police to get involved in even the slightest misdemeanours then people have a right to get angry.
I also haven’t been following totally closely, so I might have missed key things, but there appears to be a great deal of fudging about whether this was a one off incident rather than a long running affair. There was the statement that social distancing rules were broken “on this occasion”. But no statement about “a moment of weakness leading to a mistake in a high pressure situation and the end of one particularly stressful day”. If he could confidently say the latter then I think it would put him in a massively stronger position. But the fact that he can’t (assuming he hasn’t) is revealing. And problematic. Ferguson, for example was making regular trips to see his partner. Cummings, whilst totally cackhandedly handled, had the defence that he was looking out for his family.
But Hancock?
I think this is a dreadful time for everyone and all should be cut some slack. Instead, much of the public seem intent on blaming others.
Telegraph
I can't see how that is the case?
See Adam Wagner at 4mins in Newsnight piece:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000x9qg/newsnight-25062021
Only if what he was doing was reasonably necessary for work.
A leak of a Tory WhatsApp Group of the PM's comments followed by a leak of parliamentary security footage (which surely needs staff connivance to obtain)...
But - applying common sense (in short supply I know) - if you have been in close contact with someone for 8 hours indoors at work perfectly legitimately, how can it be illegitimate to be in close social contact with them immediately afterwards in an outdoor setting?
Why so slow now?
He must want Hancock to resign.
Someone senior in the Tory party wants Hancock out of the team.
One of the good things about this from a personal point of view is that it makes it less likely Hancock will get Education.* Although he would have been better than Williamson, that would be like saying being drowned is better than being burned alive.
*or anything else.
Unless you are either Mazher Mahmood (who committed them to write stories about them) or Tom Cruise’s character in Minority Report.
A lesson from this for lawmakers is dont make laws you know personally you will break.
In one move Gove would damage two rivals for the top job.
OJ argues that he doesn't support GG; he just interviewed him. And says that GG and homophobe aren't really left wing - they supported Brexit.
AND homophobe was interviewed by Katie Hopkins, which proves he's a fascist.
But the biggest tell for OJ seems to be not that homophobe is a homophobe and a racist. And pro-Brexit. And pals with Nazi Hopkins.
Get this..
He's a property developer
UGH
Oh. And Hancock should have been sacked already, from another Tory.
On another subject, here's an illuminating and sympathetic account of why the AZ vaccine ran into generally underserved difficulty:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/26/the-oxford-vaccine-the-trials-and-tribulations-of-a-world-saving-jab
But I think it’s worth noting that he never got booed for the prayers - because I think if the PL legislated a minutes silence in the ground for players prayers, fans would boo during that minute. It’s not much different to telling kids at school to be silent when they’re excited to get on with something.
It’s why she was appointed as an unofficial/unpaid aide
And then when people asked what she was doing there was made a non-executive director at the department
- Open letter sent to government highlighting travel obstacles
- Rules limit British athletes’ time spent in European Union
“The impact of Covid-19 across Europe has masked the problem in 2021, due to the subsequent restrictions in place on travel across borders. We fear that the absence of a robust solution by 2022 - whether in the form of an amateur sportspersons visa or other agreement – will see many riders lose the opportunity to gain such critical experience.”
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jun/25/geraint-thomas-and-chris-froome-sign-letter-calling-for-help-for-riders-affected-by-brexit
Would anyone prefer Hancock? Anyone?
Electoral failure trumps corruption and infidelity any day of the week, particularly on the Friday after a by-election.
Anyway, this government is clear that is is OK to break the law in a 'limited and specific way' - so that's all right then.
Fun fact, did you know there is faith room at The Emirates?
I actually think the best thing fans can do is to ignore players taking the knee. If they feel they have to do it then let them get on with it. In a few years time no one will remember why they are doing it.
As you say, the normal human reaction is one of sympathy, though my recollection is pb.com's Lynch-Mob was baying for blood.
And I am happy to support Hancock against the Lynch Mob.
Not a big fan of overnight hospital stays, bring back unpleasant memories. And in Sweden you have to pay for overheads and food.
I have only got more puzzled as Cummings has released further information about how toxic their relationship was and how much they hate and despise each other.
Now we know why.
I shan’t bother to email Amanda Milling...
Hancock has to stay.
If he’s removed, Health might get Gove or Williamson...
An excellent hospital and the right place to be if you are unwell
And my very best wishes to @DavidL.
Johnson can't make a decision and he hates giving bad news to people. I think that's why there has never been a reshuffle. In effect, a bunch of MPs will be making the decision for him.
Surely Hancock would see this coming and resign beforehand? Will he make it through the weekend?
Smarkets have:
"Hancock to remain Health Secretary on 1 July": 1.45 Yes, 2.42 No (I've had a tenner on No).
"Raab vs Hancock - first to go": Hancock 1.17, Raab 4.6.
I wonder what BoJo has been up to.
The real story is who released the CCTV and associated corroboration and why? It could, of course, be more of the brutal, but ultimately shallow revenge of Cummings. However it seems that the source may be elsewhere. Murdoch flexing his muscles re:GB News? Except that Rupes is distracted elsewhere (and is 90 after all) and it seems that this was not an in house sting from The Sun. More to the point BoJo has been a pretty big player in the media world and knows that he can probably face it down (albeit at a cost of buckets of shit hitting his head for a few weeks, which he figures he can brazen out as he has done so many times before).
If not Cummings or Press, then there are other, more insidious enemies that BoJo must face. Although there is no beginning to the talents of the current Cabinet there are several individuals who are quite capable of this kind of stitch up... Gove on manoeuvres?
Some clown here said yesterday that by calling for Hancocks resignation, the Lib Dems had missed an open goal. I don´t think I was the only one to vent a gentle belly laugh at that.
No, we want the Tories to rally round the loathsome twerp, keep him in office, and remind the voters what a bunch of third rate chancers the Tories have become. If they snatch a defeat from the jaws of victory in B&S, then Hancock will of course be gone. If a victory then the story will be dismissed as a storm in a teacup. Either way BoJo ticks off the media
And, if he survives the media will be very angry indeed... So expect more of the same: Tory closet cases, sordid affairs, mild scandals... but not yet the real meat of how these incompetent shits have been helping themselves to taxpayers cash on a scale never seen in my lifetime.
Because, though it would suit many Tories here to pretend that "they are all the same", the fact is that this government is demonstrably worse: more incompetent, more corrupt, more arrogant and much more dangerous than any other we have seen since the CABAL of the 1670s.
It is now not just a crisis of this party of government, it is a crisis of the system of government, and that could lead us into to some very unexpected places quite quickly. C&A may have been a typical by election flash in the pan. However it does signify a growing contempt for what is going on in Downing St and beyond. So let us watch this pathetic Tory gladiatorial circus and laugh, but meanwhile the forces of Attila are massing outside the limes of the City of Rome.
I'd cheerfully used my bell to let a couple of plod know to make way for me as I passed them rapidly downhill, but then had to struggle back past them up the incline after realising my mistake.
But they had all crossed Boris The Boss personally, which Hanky Panky hasn't.
It’s too late to resign this year...and I can’t face the thought of Gove again.
Couldn’t we have somebody less destructive, like Attila the Hun?
https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status/1408688362731589634
And BTW this is not a police matter. On the evidence right now there is almost zero possibility of identifying a criminal issue.
I’m astounded (I really shouldnt be) that Philip and Robert can think the report no big deal. In plain language it states that they are a risk to flight safety and may be a risk to national security. Forget the rest, just consider that. They are a real physical phenomena that is categorically a risk to flight safety.
It goes on to say that they have no evidence they are from foreign adversaries. With all the trillions spent on military hardware, electronic surveillance, human sources etc… there’s “no evidence” they are from Russia or China. Let that part sink in.
And finally that at least 18 incidents showed “unusual flight characteristics”, namely very fast acceleration with no visible signs of propulsion.
These are incidents only recorded since 2004 and only by the Navy. Neither the Air Force or CIA cooperated with the report. In essence there are 18 (!) episodes equivalent to the famous Nimitz case involving David Fravor. That’s just the Navy and just those that were formally recorded.
And to Philip’s lament that “oh no they’re asking for more money”. When figures were last reported, the task force had an annual budget of just $22m. What do you think would be an appropriate percentage of the US military budget to spend further investigating physical objects around US military assets, that not only display technological signatures but have been categorised as: “clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security”?
The default should be no measures whatsoever, and imposed only when absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt, necessary. Not as some act of general caution. They are so impactful on a personal and economic level, the power granted so extreme, that they can only be defended or used under such a circumstance. We have had that - but not for much longer, if we're not already there.
So PBers are right - someone wants him gone. But now the risk is Boris’ competency is yet again bought back into the argument, by refusing to sack. Who benefits from Johnson’s government taking a hit in competency and popularity within the Tory party…