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The right wing press appears uneasy about where BoJo is going – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited June 15 in General
imageThe right wing press appears uneasy about where BoJo is going – politicalbetting.com

The worry that is starting to be expressed a lot more is that BoJo & co so much enjoy all the powers that fighting COVID has given them that they will be reluctant to give it up. For there will always be a reason why things shouldn’t be eased and so far at least the polls are generally supportitve.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,124
    edited June 15
    The Telegraph position has consistently been anti-lockdown and the Mail's veer from one side of the fence to the other, often during the same day.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,019
    Second....like DUP in the next NI assembly election
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,019
    thing is.... where will the DM and Telegraph go? Bit like Mandelson's comments about northern red wall voters, unless I am mistaken Farage has lost his mojo... so it'll be the Tory backbenchers that BJ needs to worry about.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,742
    Even with lockdown extended, there are different views as to why, which we can caricature as:-
    1) HMG has been captured by mad scientists who fiddle the figures
    2) HMG is power-crazed and does not want to set us free
    3) HMG is sensibly acting to buy time to vaccinate against Delta

    The first two are popular here but polling generally shows a majority support whatever measures are taken. It would be possible for Opposition parties to propose alternative courses of action based on the Covid data but there is no sign of them doing so.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,019

    Even with lockdown extended, there are different views as to why, which we can caricature as:-
    1) HMG has been captured by mad scientists who fiddle the figures
    2) HMG is power-crazed and does not want to set us free
    3) HMG is sensibly acting to buy time to vaccinate against Delta

    The first two are popular here but polling generally shows a majority support whatever measures are taken. It would be possible for Opposition parties to propose alternative courses of action based on the Covid data but there is no sign of them doing so.

    For the opposition, the magic money tree has been given a good shaking and Rishi's accounts will be dreadful reading for an incoming govt, I suppose the opposition can promise free everything and if elected (looking highly unlikely) just blame it on Coronavirus/Tories.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,830
    edited June 15
    O/T

    "Mobile phones are as addictive as crack cocaine, a head teacher who intends to ban them in school hours has claimed."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mobile-phones-banned-to-curb-sexual-bullying-at-school-khv69jv0m
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,742
    Chesham & Amersham
    Conservative 1.05
    Liberal Democrats 15

    As the header notes, LibDem 40+ per cent is favourite on Smarkets.

    General election 2019
    Conservative 55.4%
    Liberal Democrats 26.3%
    Labour 12.9%
    Green 5.5%

    General election 2017
    Conservative 60.7%
    Labour 20.6%
    Liberal Democrats 13.0%
    Green 3.0%
    UKIP 2.8%
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,830
    Greens and LDs making opposition to HS2 one of their main policies at the by-election:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-57383497
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,019
    Andy_JS said:

    Greens and LDs making opposition to HS2 one of their main policies at the by-election:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-57383497

    I sense C&A doesnt appear like its going to fall to the yellows but...
  • Cocky_cockneyCocky_cockney Posts: 760
    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,721

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    At the moment the polling is not reflecting the damage you refer to.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 43,972
    At 15.5 on Betfair Exchange, I'm tempted.

    The Lib Dems are probably a 20% shot.

    Value loser.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,983
    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Since probably one one or maybe two pbers live in the constituency it is very difficult to get a feel for what is going on. Google doesn't help.much so......

    Orpington''s happen once in a hundred yrs and it hasn't been a hundred yrs...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    Labour have a policy! R4 suggest they are going to say “scrap the amber list and move amber countries to red”. We would then need the FCDO and travel advice to line up - what many don’t seem to realise is if they travel to a country where the FCDO advise against “all but essential travel” their travel insurance generally won’t be valid.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    On topic: good. The bugger doesn't want to let go of the comfort blanket. If the papers can at least set it on fire and make him hot and uncomfortable then that can only be a good thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 25,225
    Morning all. Re Mr Squareroot2, I seem to remember a lot more positivity about the Liberal chances in Orpington before the actual election. It was the scale of the win, as much as the win itself, which was surprising.
    There had also been a great deal of positivity in the Press about the Liberals in general, as opposed tom the negativity or, indeed, absence of any notice at all, which there has been for the LibDems over the past couple of years.

    Even if they do win they'll still only be the fourth party in Parliament, and that's no place to be, as far as getting a chance to speak.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    Given what our infection rate is expected to be in mid-July I doubt August either:

    Foreign holidays for Britons are not expected to restart in large numbers until at least August, UK's ambassadors to destination countries warn local officials

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9685683/Foreign-holidays-Britons-not-expected-restart-large-numbers-August.html
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    Thread:

    The UK government made several announcements yesterday. One was that they expected the UK's world-leading vaccination programme would slow to a crawl.
    No-one noticed.
    Even the FT - usually so good at this quantitative stuff - has this headline. (1/2)


    https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1404671632036278272?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    I have typed this thread into Warwick’s latest model, and I am therefore First.

    Any data you see to the contrary must be wrong, as the model is superior to the data.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    I think the contradictions you talk about are at least partly because the national party is in favour of HS2 but the local candidate is against it.

    This has proved very effective for the Tories, of course...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,983

    Given what our infection rate is expected to be in mid-July I doubt August either:

    Foreign holidays for Britons are not expected to restart in large numbers until at least August, UK's ambassadors to destination countries warn local officials

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9685683/Foreign-holidays-Britons-not-expected-restart-large-numbers-August.html

    Given what the likes of @felix have said about the vaccination programme in Spain, it would appear to be somewhat irresponsible of them to want to open up to millions of young, unvaccinated foreign tourists.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,205
    Exam boards: We need to charge full fees because doing nothing involves lots of extra work.

    Schools want 75% rebate on this summer's exam fees
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57470281
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    Morning all. Re Mr Squareroot2, I seem to remember a lot more positivity about the Liberal chances in Orpington before the actual election. It was the scale of the win, as much as the win itself, which was surprising.
    There had also been a great deal of positivity in the Press about the Liberals in general, as opposed tom the negativity or, indeed, absence of any notice at all, which there has been for the LibDems over the past couple of years.

    Even if they do win they'll still only be the fourth party in Parliament, and that's no place to be, as far as getting a chance to speak.

    GMTYT

    I was only 9 in 1962 so it passed me by.
    I do remember it being talked about interminably at every by election after that usually by Robin Day usually followed by a dismal result afterwards.
    Ed Davey has done nothing afaik to raise the profile of the Lib Dems since his Coronation.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,983
    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    A “communications framework” agreed between the agency, the Scottish government and local authorities, makes it clear that PHS must privilege the management of appearances over the public interest. According to the document, “Public Health Scotland must retain public trust and credibility as an objective source of evidence, data, advice and intelligence if it is to improve and protect the health and wellbeing of the public”. Indeed so. But is PHS actually an “objective source of evidence”. Shamefully, there is ample evidence to suggest it is not.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c92a9f34-cd55-11eb-979e-6eddfcb6b6ef?shareToken=288488d06274767693f61577b66b0440
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598
    ydoethur said:

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    I think the contradictions you talk about are at least partly because the national party is in favour of HS2 but the local candidate is against it.

    This has proved very effective for the Tories, of course...
    And simultaneously the party of redistribution to their new clientele and low taxes on the rich. All parties have their contradictions.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,541
    edited June 15
    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    Of course, but the word has adapted to become shorthand for restrictions, in the same way that staycation now means travelling miles away from home to some British seaside resort.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 20,724
    ydoethur said:

    Exam boards: We need to charge full fees because doing nothing involves lots of extra work.

    Schools want 75% rebate on this summer's exam fees
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57470281

    Apologies if you have already given your opinion on this, but where do you stand on Year 11 students being given the summer off?

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/03/schools-should-not-send-exam-year-pupils-home-early-says-ofsted-head

    Schools in England should continue to educate pupils for the remainder of the school year, rather than giving them an extended holiday as “study leave” for exams that were cancelled, the head of the Ofsted has said.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598
    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    And the Performing Arts, Music etc. All the things that make life enjoyable over an English Summer.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 891

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    There you go again! That is obviously the approved line from your Tory Party bosses.

    The Lib Dems are not opposed to building. But Lib Dems are very much opposed to having decisions taken by a small clique around Johnson, who think they can dictate policy and impose it on the rest of us. Especially, of course, when bribery and corruption are also involved.

    From what I have read about the C & A campaign, local people do not take kindly to being bossed about and told what they must do. I for my part most certainly want planning and development near me to be decided locally, not by a gang of incompetents in London, who are set on arranging for their powerful donors to make immense fortunes. And it appears that a lot of people in the constituency agree with the Liberal Democrat approach.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,541
    I've just quickly done a YouGov survey, hoping it would give me the chance to get my views about the government off my chest. But it was just ten minutes' of questions about biscuits.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,382
    IanB2 said:

    I've just quickly done a YouGov survey, hoping it would give me the chance to get my views about the government off my chest. But it was just ten minutes' of questions about biscuits.

    Sweet
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598
    IanB2 said:

    I've just quickly done a YouGov survey, hoping it would give me the chance to get my views about the government off my chest. But it was just ten minutes' of questions about biscuits.

    Would you be proud to work for Mcvities...
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,382
    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Furlough and business support are expensive.
    But at the same time there is the chorus of not enough.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    Ideally, Tories will lose C&A and that will prompt some rethinking in Downing Street.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    Certainly in the Grassmarket in Edinburgh there is once again an astonishing number of jobs being advertised in the restaurants and bars. Some of the adverts have almost an air of desperation, "immediate start". A lot of these jobs were previously held by non Brits and I suspect that they have been hit by staff going home during lockdown but its a buoyant market.

    There will be redundancies as furlough unwinds and repossessions of commercial premises are allowed again. A lot of businesses are dead men walking. But the indications are that there will be a lot of growth too. Hard to say how it will balance out.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,016
    "Scotland lockdown my last until September"

    https://twitter.com/simon_telegraph/status/1404685743562362880?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,983
    edited June 15
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    And the Performing Arts, Music etc. All the things that make life enjoyable over an English Summer.
    Oh indeed.

    Reports this morning of frantic lobbying by Wimbledon, Silverstone and Wembley, to allow full crowds at outdoor events in July.

    Silverstone have almost sold out 150k tickets for the F1 on 18th July (although I had to return mine, rolled over from last year :( ).

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2021/06/14/briti...

    “ As a 550-acre outdoor site, Silverstone is the largest major sporting venue in the UK, with its 70,000 grandstand seats spread around a 3.6-mile track.

    “ The vast majority of the 120,000-plus spectators who usually attend a Grand Prix weekend also travel to the circuit by car.

    “ That would avoid the prospect of thousands being crammed in together on public transport – something seen as far more likely to spread Covid-19 than a relaxation of social distancing in an outdoor grandstand.

    “ Silverstone has been selling tickets on the basis of being at capacity and the Telegraph has been told it is close to a sell-out.

    “ Having lost millions of pounds last year by staging back-to-back grands prix behind closed doors, it is desperate to avoid another major shortfall by being forced to cap attendance next month. “
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598
    philiph said:

    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Furlough and business support are expensive.
    But at the same time there is the chorus of not enough.
    Always enough for the Tory donors with their snouts in the trough.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    And the Performing Arts, Music etc. All the things that make life enjoyable over an English Summer.
    Plus we could be sent backwards any day. Now that decisions are entirely taken based on modelling that does not match real world data and a new variant can be used as an excuse to delay or go backwards.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,827
    edited June 15
    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,860

    Ideally, Tories will lose C&A and that will prompt some rethinking in Downing Street.

    This feel unlikely.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095

    thing is.... where will the DM and Telegraph go? Bit like Mandelson's comments about northern red wall voters, unless I am mistaken Farage has lost his mojo... so it'll be the Tory backbenchers that BJ needs to worry about.

    As Labour have disappeared into a ferret sack, its not about a change of party. It IS though about a change of government. The Telegraph and the Heil could push very hard the agenda of the unhappy backbenchers and thus speed along Shagger's removal and replacement by someone with a brain.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,983
    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
    That’s not what I’m saying, my point is of the media twisting language so that relatively minor restriction are still being described as “lockdown”.

    Yes, of course certain people and industries are still badly affected by the remaining restrictions, but for most people they are a relatively minor inconvenience to their everyday lives.
  • felixfelix Posts: 13,721
    IanB2 said:

    I've just quickly done a YouGov survey, hoping it would give me the chance to get my views about the government off my chest. But it was just ten minutes' of questions about biscuits.

    They obviously realised you're crackers!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,616
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    Of course, but the word has adapted to become shorthand for restrictions, in the same way that staycation now means travelling miles away from home to some British seaside resort.
    I think it’s appalling how the word staycation, which the OED first cites in Troilus and Criseyde, has been twisted in recent years.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,616
    edited June 15
    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Slightly churlish.
    Unemployment is the dog that hasn’t barked.

    Thanks to furlough, really. Still around 10-15% of the workforce, I think.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 2,827
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
    That’s not what I’m saying, my point is of the media twisting language so that relatively minor restriction are still being described as “lockdown”.

    Yes, of course certain people and industries are still badly affected by the remaining restrictions, but for most people they are a relatively minor inconvenience to their everyday lives.
    There you go again. “Minor inconvenience”.

    We live in a Toquevellian tyranny of the majority. I’m alright Jack. With my triple lock pension and indexed final salary scheme. Or my well paid job with no commute costs now. My house with a garden. My wealth, family and memories already built.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    It goes beyond NIMBYism to what a national planning policy should be. Objecting to building houses in places they shouldn't be built is a valid battle to fight. The NPPF has allowed planners to overrule everyone including councillors the council and the MP. I myself have fought some NIMBY not those trees battles because the proposal was utterly stupid.

    There are a lot of people out there who think the same way. With the Tories now openly corrupt and donations flowing to the party from developers there is a valid line of opposition to take. I don't agree with the battle against HS2 then again they aren't building it near me...
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 3,683

    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Slightly churlish.
    Unemployment is the dog that hasn’t barked.

    Thanks to furlough, really. Still around 10-15% of the workforce, I think.
    Furlough is unemployment (by definition you are not doing any work ) its just subsidised more than dole
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,492
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
    That’s not what I’m saying, my point is of the media twisting language so that relatively minor restriction are still being described as “lockdown”.

    Yes, of course certain people and industries are still badly affected by the remaining restrictions, but for most people they are a relatively minor inconvenience to their everyday lives.
    Mild, herd immunity, exponential, lockdown, 99.7% chance of survival, 2 weeks to flatten the curve, 'false positive', dark matter, 'protective ring' - something for everyone with the language of the pandemic
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,860

    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Slightly churlish.
    Unemployment is the dog that hasn’t barked.

    Thanks to furlough, really. Still around 10-15% of the workforce, I think.
    I think it's down a fair bit now, something like 8%, but that's still too high. I can see justification to keep it for tourism related industries such as aviation, hotels and other businesses but beyond that it seems like it's time to phase it out. The self employment support as well. That's an even more expensive scheme.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Exam boards: We need to charge full fees because doing nothing involves lots of extra work.

    Schools want 75% rebate on this summer's exam fees
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57470281

    Apologies if you have already given your opinion on this, but where do you stand on Year 11 students being given the summer off?

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jun/03/schools-should-not-send-exam-year-pupils-home-early-says-ofsted-head

    Schools in England should continue to educate pupils for the remainder of the school year, rather than giving them an extended holiday as “study leave” for exams that were cancelled, the head of the Ofsted has said.
    The Head of OFSTED is a failed investment manager who was appointed over the strenuous objections of the Education Select Committee who pointed out she didn’t have a fecking clue what she is talking about. She also cannot carry out personal inspections as she thinks those who raise complaints of sexual assault should stay in the same classes as the people whom they have complained about, making her a safeguarding risk. Even if she did, as her sole role in education was as bursar to a small academy chain for two years, it’s hard to see what value she would add.

    As usual, she is talking bullshit. Children have got it into their heads that all that matters in Year 11 is exams. Can’t think why, surely can’t be linked with OFSTED’s 20 year obsession with exam results. But, they also noted that when exams finished, they can always leave.

    In case Spielman hasn’t noticed, on account of being very stupid, exams - those things the government falsely claimed weren’t going ahead - have now finished. Grades are finalised on Friday.

    So year 11 see no point in coming back in. Heck, they saw little point in being in before. On one occasion, a maths teacher and I had to physically block a doorway to stop them walking out at the start of a lesson (not mine) that they had decided was pointless.

    Furthermore, given large numbers of teachers trying to set their grades have become physically ill from overwork (that doesn’t include me, fed up though I am) they need a break.* Controlling a group who do not want to be there, have nothing to learn and what indeed simply not bother turning up anyway meaning vast wasted resources on chasing, is so stupid I’m surprised even a woman who can’t count to nine thought it a good idea.

    What’s alarming about that story is not that she’s fucked up - she has after all reduced OFSTED to a laughing stock - but that she’s had her contract extended for two years, making it less likely somebody could turn this disaster around.

    Said more eloquently here, albeit by someone I know and do not rate particularly highly:

    https://www.tes.com/news/gcse-students-exams-so-ofsted-do-you-want-us-bring-year-11-back

    * https://www.tes.com/magazine/article/are-schools-brink-burnout-crisis
    My son finishes school on Friday. This week is largely social events and there is a prize giving on Friday. And that will be it. No more children of school age. I genuinely feel that a chapter of my life is coming to an end. Its a little melancholy.

    In a normal year the exams finish mid May but at least Scottish schools only have 3-4 weeks to play with after the exams. In most schools kids are moved up a year to get a head start on their subsequent year's learning but it would be silly to pretend that there is the same urgency or commitment as there is in August when the new year starts in earnest. I have never really understood why English schools come off so late. It does seem more wasted time.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 9,616
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Slightly churlish.
    Unemployment is the dog that hasn’t barked.

    Thanks to furlough, really. Still around 10-15% of the workforce, I think.
    I think it's down a fair bit now, something like 8%, but that's still too high. I can see justification to keep it for tourism related industries such as aviation, hotels and other businesses but beyond that it seems like it's time to phase it out. The self employment support as well. That's an even more expensive scheme.
    Agree.

    And indeed it’s not clear whether even going to September is enough for aviation. Sadly, I am exposed to that hence looking for another job.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280

    Foxy said:

    Unemployment rate down from 4.8% to 4.7% and HMRC payroll data suggests employment up 200,000 in May.

    It's amazing what a 14.5% budget deficit can do for unemployment figures.
    Slightly churlish.
    Unemployment is the dog that hasn’t barked.

    Thanks to furlough, really. Still around 10-15% of the workforce, I think.
    Furlough is unemployment (by definition you are not doing any work ) its just subsidised more than dole
    It really isn't. It is a means by which some businesses have managed to hold on to a workforce that would otherwise have scattered to the 4 winds making it impossible for them to start again. In the latter stages it was also more flexible allowing part time working. It has been a superb scheme but it has served its purpose outside the businesses hardest hit by the continuing restrictions.

    In my profession it has almost disappeared now. Everyone is back at work whether from home where that is possible or more commonly the office.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    No messing about by Sherelle Jacobs:

    "a middle class zoomocracy facing few risks to its material comfort"

    "the great danger is that Britain will stumble into a Zero Covid strategy in desperate pursuit of herd immunity."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/14/isnt-delay-disastrous-trap-pm-country/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,609
    On topic, Charles Moore thinks the government will pay a political price for Johnson's delay decision.

    Let's hope it is a surprise loss at C&A.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    MaxPB said:

    Ideally, Tories will lose C&A and that will prompt some rethinking in Downing Street.

    This feel unlikely.
    The thinking or the losing?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 21,873
    Given that we now know that scientists will produce fraudulent models and that this deceit stretches all the way to the CSO why should any other scientific model be trusted ?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,650
    In the government's dealing with the Fachidioten of Sage and their reluctance to sanction relaxation of lockdown measures I am reminded of the Catch-22 that you're confronted with in everyday dealings with medics.
    You want to get off the pills that have been prescribed for blood pressure, blood sugar, cholererol etc so you present them with evidence that the measurements have improved. But they always counter that the improvements happened under medication and that just proves the value of the pills. The only way to come off them is to stop taking them and *then* demonstrate that the readings are satisfactory. The medics will not of course approve that course of action, so they make clear that on your own head be it. You have to take the bull by the horns. Same for the government vis à vis their advisors.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929
    felix said:

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    At the moment the polling is not reflecting the damage you refer to.
    He’s hopecasting
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,499
    Gove on not shutting borders to India sooner: “We can always look back and wish we’d done things differently but we had to act on the information we had at the time.”
    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1404687129259565056

    The crucial bit of information being: "Boris really wants to go to India."
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1404688844138729473
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,445
    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    I almost always normally agree with you but I'm afraid I can't disagree with you more here.

    Even if they're only an inconvenience for those sectors, its worth noting that 10% of all British jobs are in hospitality alone, plus millions more related to travel (may be some overlap there). Plus of course the number of people who use hospitality or travel will be even more than that.

    However philosophically and more significantly we must never allow these restrictions to be considered "normalised" or "light" and something and something that we can just brush off the state getting involved in. Its not the state's place or state's right to be dictating the things that it is and to be considering it anything other than lockdown hands a power to the dead hand of the state that I'm not prepared to see it have indefinitely.

    It may be a very light touch lockdown compared to earlier in the pandemic, or other nations elsewhere earlier in the pandemic, but the depths of pandemic or totalitarian regimes isn't what we should be setting as our baseline. Our normal life is the baseline and we must not allow the state to lose sight of that.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 866

    On topic, Charles Moore thinks the government will pay a political price for Johnson's delay decision.

    Let's hope it is a surprise loss at C&A.

    It could be pretty close in C&A, but surely the value bet is now to get on Labour to hold B&S?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929
    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,783
    Scott_xP said:

    Gove on not shutting borders to India sooner: “We can always look back and wish we’d done things differently but we had to act on the information we had at the time.”
    https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1404687129259565056

    The crucial bit of information being: "Boris really wants to go to India."
    https://twitter.com/RobDotHutton/status/1404688844138729473

    I don't believe that, I think it was Boris really wants the Anglo Indian vote in the red wall.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    ClippP said:

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    There you go again! That is obviously the approved line from your Tory Party bosses.

    The Lib Dems are not opposed to building. But Lib Dems are very much opposed to having decisions taken by a small clique around Johnson, who think they can dictate policy and impose it on the rest of us. Especially, of course, when bribery and corruption are also involved.

    From what I have read about the C & A campaign, local people do not take kindly to being bossed about and told what they must do. I for my part most certainly want planning and development near me to be decided locally, not by a gang of incompetents in London, who are set on arranging for their powerful donors to make immense fortunes. And it appears that a lot of people in the constituency agree with the Liberal Democrat approach.
    As an example: "A billionaire property tycoon gave £150,000 to the Conservative Party 48 hours after a government minister approved a controversial housing scheme for him." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/housing-tycoon-gave-150-000-to-tories-days-after-minister-backed-rural-scheme-27bvpsl2d

    Rejected by the borough council. Beaten down in legal challenges it then gets picked up by the town council to defend against. 625 houses. With a single access road. On a flood plain. Secretary of State overrules the objections yet again, permission granted over the heads of both councils and all the residents. £150k donation to the Tory Party from the developer follows just days later.

    Fighting housing battles against stupid developments like this is not NIMBYism. And in the case of Ledbury Town Council its £100k+ costs are critically damaging to a council with a £500k budget. Either we stand up for democracy and the rights of people to vote for what happens in their community or we have dictatorship. The NPPF rides roughshod over everyone, unless the council are allowing sufficient planning developments then the developers win by default.

    The whole purpose in local representatives is to be representative. That means standing up to the billionaire property developers with friends in high places. "We have a large majority, we can do what we want" is Hailsham's Elective Dictatorship brought to life.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I agree. I thought in the circumstances with Boris in Brussels for NATO Hoyle was being a bit silly yesterday but in fairness he has been provoked on this issue before.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,445
    ClippP said:

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    There you go again! That is obviously the approved line from your Tory Party bosses.

    The Lib Dems are not opposed to building. But Lib Dems are very much opposed to having decisions taken by a small clique around Johnson, who think they can dictate policy and impose it on the rest of us. Especially, of course, when bribery and corruption are also involved.

    From what I have read about the C & A campaign, local people do not take kindly to being bossed about and told what they must do. I for my part most certainly want planning and development near me to be decided locally, not by a gang of incompetents in London, who are set on arranging for their powerful donors to make immense fortunes. And it appears that a lot of people in the constituency agree with the Liberal Democrat approach.
    "Planning and development near me to be decided locally" = support NIMBYs to reject development.

    That NIMBYism is popular is not a novel idea, doesn't mean it isn't completely evil and morally repugnant especially when you combine it with advocating for an open door allowing millions of extra people to migrate here but then deny them anywhere to live.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,860
    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ideally, Tories will lose C&A and that will prompt some rethinking in Downing Street.

    This feel unlikely.
    The thinking or the losing?
    Lol, the losing. I don't see how the Tories lose a middle aged, middle class seat when it's that group who want to hold onto this half life the most.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,783
    geoffw said:

    In the government's dealing with the Fachidioten of Sage and their reluctance to sanction relaxation of lockdown measures I am reminded of the Catch-22 that you're confronted with in everyday dealings with medics.
    You want to get off the pills that have been prescribed for blood pressure, blood sugar, cholererol etc so you present them with evidence that the measurements have improved. But they always counter that the improvements happened under medication and that just proves the value of the pills. The only way to come off them is to stop taking them and *then* demonstrate that the readings are satisfactory. The medics will not of course approve that course of action, so they make clear that on your own head be it. You have to take the bull by the horns. Same for the government vis à vis their advisors.

    Why would what the doctor says not actually be the case? I was hungry. I ate food and the hunger went away, so obviously I no longer need food. Pills for all the things you mention usually manage rather than cure conditions.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    And the Performing Arts, Music etc. All the things that make life enjoyable over an English Summer.
    There are few things more enjoyable than reading in the garden. I think you are exaggerating
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 27,598

    No messing about by Sherelle Jacobs:

    "a middle class zoomocracy facing few risks to its material comfort"

    "the great danger is that Britain will stumble into a Zero Covid strategy in desperate pursuit of herd immunity."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/14/isnt-delay-disastrous-trap-pm-country/

    I listened to her on #BBCAQ on Saturday lunchtime. She perhaps is the most incoherent and inarticulate journalist out there, not so much her off the shelf pub bore opinions, but her inability to gather her thoughts into any recognisable pattern.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 866

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    It goes beyond NIMBYism to what a national planning policy should be. Objecting to buildingeg houses in places they shouldn't be built is a valid battle to fight. The NPPF has allowed planners to overrule everyone including councillors the council and the MP. I myself have fought some NIMBY not those trees battles because the proposal was utterly stupid.

    There are a lot of people out there who think the same way. With the Tories now openly corrupt and donations flowing to the party from developers there is a valid line of opposition to take. I don't agree with the battle against HS2 then again they aren't building it near me...
    The Tories are very vulnerable with planning, especially since it supports the growing sense that they do not care about corruption. That is a key issue in C&A and the Lib Dems are obviously prospering on it. Also polls are tricky things, we should all note that the Lib Dems are getting far more in actual elections than their poll rating.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,445
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I respect Hoyle but I think he was wrong quite frankly to insist upon Hancock coming to Parliament a few hours after Boris spoke, rather than waiting for Boris to come to Parliament within 24 hours of him speaking.

    Since Boris was speaking first either way, I don't see him coming to Parliament within 24 hours to be held to account as being an unreasonable delay.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,438
    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I agree. I thought in the circumstances with Boris in Brussels for NATO Hoyle was being a bit silly yesterday but in fairness he has been provoked on this issue before.
    It's a breach of the Ministerial Code. Given that he was in London in the evening (dining with the Australian PM) the Brussels excuse is a red herring, and there would have been nothing to stop him making the announcement today instead of yesterday. What we're seeing is the grid (extension one day, trade deal the next) overriding the rules.
  • TazTaz Posts: 2,475
    I’m on the Lib Dem’s at 17-1, have been for weeks, it just seems such good value given the seat, the issues and the Lib Dem’s campaigning abilities.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,843

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I respect Hoyle but I think he was wrong quite frankly to insist upon Hancock coming to Parliament a few hours after Boris spoke, rather than waiting for Boris to come to Parliament within 24 hours of him speaking.

    Since Boris was speaking first either way, I don't see him coming to Parliament within 24 hours to be held to account as being an unreasonable delay.
    There is a principal here that given we are a Parliamentary democracy, Parliament should be told things first.

    If Boris wishes to announce things elsewhere first (and I understand there are very valid reasons for doing do) he needs to justify it to Parliament and really should have their prior agreement.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929

    thing is.... where will the DM and Telegraph go? Bit like Mandelson's comments about northern red wall voters, unless I am mistaken Farage has lost his mojo... so it'll be the Tory backbenchers that BJ needs to worry about.

    As Labour have disappeared into a ferret sack, its not about a change of party. It IS though about a change of government. The Telegraph and the Heil could push very hard the agenda of the unhappy backbenchers and thus speed along Shagger's removal and replacement by someone with a brain.
    Not going to happen.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,988
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    The sad reality is that parliament rarely does its job of holding the government to account anyway, and will just rubber stamp what the government and party want. Open to be persuaded otherwise, but think on lockdown a press conference > parliament.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 14,095
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
    That’s not what I’m saying, my point is of the media twisting language so that relatively minor restriction are still being described as “lockdown”.

    Yes, of course certain people and industries are still badly affected by the remaining restrictions, but for most people they are a relatively minor inconvenience to their everyday lives.
    It definitely isn't lockdown - so yes the media are using lazy language. But it isn't a "minor inconvenience" if its your job or your business that is being played like a yoyo. That the government are about to pull their financial support is genuinely absurd - after 15 months of support to keep businesses going they're prepared to bankrupt them now?

    Once again its the politics of stupid by the clowncar government. If the media were any good they would be asking these rather basic questions.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,445
    edited June 15

    ClippP said:

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    There you go again! That is obviously the approved line from your Tory Party bosses.

    The Lib Dems are not opposed to building. But Lib Dems are very much opposed to having decisions taken by a small clique around Johnson, who think they can dictate policy and impose it on the rest of us. Especially, of course, when bribery and corruption are also involved.

    From what I have read about the C & A campaign, local people do not take kindly to being bossed about and told what they must do. I for my part most certainly want planning and development near me to be decided locally, not by a gang of incompetents in London, who are set on arranging for their powerful donors to make immense fortunes. And it appears that a lot of people in the constituency agree with the Liberal Democrat approach.
    As an example: "A billionaire property tycoon gave £150,000 to the Conservative Party 48 hours after a government minister approved a controversial housing scheme for him." https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/housing-tycoon-gave-150-000-to-tories-days-after-minister-backed-rural-scheme-27bvpsl2d

    Rejected by the borough council. Beaten down in legal challenges it then gets picked up by the town council to defend against. 625 houses. With a single access road. On a flood plain. Secretary of State overrules the objections yet again, permission granted over the heads of both councils and all the residents. £150k donation to the Tory Party from the developer follows just days later.

    Fighting housing battles against stupid developments like this is not NIMBYism. And in the case of Ledbury Town Council its £100k+ costs are critically damaging to a council with a £500k budget. Either we stand up for democracy and the rights of people to vote for what happens in their community or we have dictatorship. The NPPF rides roughshod over everyone, unless the council are allowing sufficient planning developments then the developers win by default.

    The whole purpose in local representatives is to be representative. That means standing up to the billionaire property developers with friends in high places. "We have a large majority, we can do what we want" is Hailsham's Elective Dictatorship brought to life.
    BiB: Good! Quite right too.

    It doesn't go frankly far enough, I'd have the developers win by default even if the Council are allowing "sufficient" planning developments, but even if you only want "sufficient" planning developments which is a piddly target then what's your alternative? Councils don't allow sufficient developments and developers still lose by default?

    PS if developers always won by default then there'd be no reason for the Secretary of State to overrule anyone since it would be automatically approved before it even reached his desk. So it seems that what you're objecting to would prevent what you started your post complaining about, it is merely the fact that permission is valuable and hard to obtain that causes the risk of corruption.
  • eekeek Posts: 15,843
    edited June 15
    MaxPB said:

    DavidL said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ideally, Tories will lose C&A and that will prompt some rethinking in Downing Street.

    This feel unlikely.
    The thinking or the losing?
    Lol, the losing. I don't see how the Tories lose a middle aged, middle class seat when it's that group who want to hold onto this half life the most.
    The Tories aren't going to lose C&A - I suspect most people won't bother to vote as the result is certain. I know my parents (who would be voting LD) didn't bother to sort out postal / proxy votes prior to heading North to visit family. So that's -2 on the LD votes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,929

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    It goes beyond NIMBYism to what a national planning policy should be. Objecting to building houses in places they shouldn't be built is a valid battle to fight. The NPPF has allowed planners to overrule everyone including councillors the council and the MP. I myself have fought some NIMBY not those trees battles because the proposal was utterly stupid.

    There are a lot of people out there who think the same way. With the Tories now openly corrupt and donations flowing to the party from developers there is a valid line of opposition to take. I don't agree with the battle against HS2 then again they aren't building it near me...
    Each time you make these allegations I suggest you provide evidence. Or make a report to the police.

    The fact that you never do tells me that you prefer to smear from the shadows
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,280

    DavidL said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I agree. I thought in the circumstances with Boris in Brussels for NATO Hoyle was being a bit silly yesterday but in fairness he has been provoked on this issue before.
    It's a breach of the Ministerial Code. Given that he was in London in the evening (dining with the Australian PM) the Brussels excuse is a red herring, and there would have been nothing to stop him making the announcement today instead of yesterday. What we're seeing is the grid (extension one day, trade deal the next) overriding the rules.
    What we are seeing in Covid is that it is much more important that the government gets clear messages out to the general pubic direct with suitable expert support from the likes of Whitty and Valance than it is that they have some yah boo nonsense in the HoC that only obsessives like us pay much attention to. Governments have found the way to get unintermediated contact with the electorate and they love it. Nicola does the same as does Drakeford. Hoyle is deluding himself if he thinks that this is going to change for as long as the pandemic continues.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,783
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I respect Hoyle but I think he was wrong quite frankly to insist upon Hancock coming to Parliament a few hours after Boris spoke, rather than waiting for Boris to come to Parliament within 24 hours of him speaking.

    Since Boris was speaking first either way, I don't see him coming to Parliament within 24 hours to be held to account as being an unreasonable delay.
    There is a principal here that given we are a Parliamentary democracy, Parliament should be told things first.

    If Boris wishes to announce things elsewhere first (and I understand there are very valid reasons for doing do) he needs to justify it to Parliament and really should have their prior agreement.
    Not a very strong principle. You could put the emphasis on democracy rather than parliamentary and claim that The People should be told things first.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 1,534

    Dominic Cummings' latest assault on the PM, this time over HS2, won't have helped the Conservatives' cause.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

    It's certainly a live issue in the constituency. An old friend of mine lives on the edge of Amersham and will never vote for the party again, solely because of HS2.

    The timing of the lockdown farce yesterday as well as Brexit starting to unravel over the Northern Ireland protocol are also tarnishing Brand Boris. Even an announcement on a UK-Australia trade deal may not help as it is not going down well with British farmers, who feel the Aussies have an unfair advantage. In a seat that was pro-Remain these things still matter.

    I'm on the LibDems with good odds following Mike's tip. It's a bet I expect to lose but stranger things have happened in by-elections.

    It would be very droll if, having captured the north, the tories lost their homeland.

    The LibDems are throwing everything at the by-election. It might possibly win them the seat, but I don't expect it. This is a Government in its 20th month, so I probably should be expecting it (at least, on the basis of the ramping of their chances on here - LibDems to win it in a "landslide", I recall one poster saying).

    But, the LibDems are close on 40% behind the government in national polling. Plus, for decade after decade, the Tory vote has been very predictable in this seat - between 50-odd percent and 60-odd percent. Safe, but never massively so.

    The LibDems are also saddling themselves with the Nimby label. Bollocks to Brexit, now Bollocks to Building. They are very keen on pushing a humanitarian agenda - as long as once people get here they don't mind living under trees.

    Oh, and not THOSE trees. They are ancient woodland. Can't have people shitting in those...

    And they are very keen on people using trains. Just, not THAT train.

    They are starting to build up internal contradictions that again show they aren't a party of serious decisions required of government. Just say whatever it takes to win a seat. But their opponents will be watching, storing up posters and leaflets with which to whack them around the head.
    It goes beyond NIMBYism to what a national planning policy should be. Objecting to building houses in places they shouldn't be built is a valid battle to fight. The NPPF has allowed planners to overrule everyone including councillors the council and the MP. I myself have fought some NIMBY not those trees battles because the proposal was utterly stupid.

    There are a lot of people out there who think the same way. With the Tories now openly corrupt and donations flowing to the party from developers there is a valid line of opposition to take. I don't agree with the battle against HS2 then again they aren't building it near me...
    It's not a case of NIMBYism, it's a case of poor planning. Developers building vast estates of houses at £500,000 and above is not going to solve the housing crisis. If I was starting again as a small family I couldn't afford a mortgage for one of those. I think the boarded up shops and office blocks of the town centres should be the first target, constructing 3 and 2 bedroom houses or flats for people to start climbing the ladder on. This would provide much-needed accomodation and possibly the chance to save and plan for the next stage. In my old home town centre of Stafford there are many disused shops and office blocks which could be used first for housing before spoiling the countryside around first.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,445
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    I respect Hoyle but I think he was wrong quite frankly to insist upon Hancock coming to Parliament a few hours after Boris spoke, rather than waiting for Boris to come to Parliament within 24 hours of him speaking.

    Since Boris was speaking first either way, I don't see him coming to Parliament within 24 hours to be held to account as being an unreasonable delay.
    There is a principal here that given we are a Parliamentary democracy, Parliament should be told things first.

    If Boris wishes to announce things elsewhere first (and I understand there are very valid reasons for doing do) he needs to justify it to Parliament and really should have their prior agreement.
    But that didn't happen either way.

    So given that didn't happen either way, what difference does it make if Boris tells Parliament within 24 hours, or Hancock does so within 3 hours?
  • eekeek Posts: 15,843
    edited June 15

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
    That’s not what I’m saying, my point is of the media twisting language so that relatively minor restriction are still being described as “lockdown”.

    Yes, of course certain people and industries are still badly affected by the remaining restrictions, but for most people they are a relatively minor inconvenience to their everyday lives.
    It definitely isn't lockdown - so yes the media are using lazy language. But it isn't a "minor inconvenience" if its your job or your business that is being played like a yoyo. That the government are about to pull their financial support is genuinely absurd - after 15 months of support to keep businesses going they're prepared to bankrupt them now?

    Once again its the politics of stupid by the clowncar government. If the media were any good they would be asking these rather basic questions.
    The holiday plans of said Journalists are way more important than people's actual jobs..

    Well it's either that or they are even more useless at thinking about actual interesting stories than they should be - so they pick the only topic they understand (i.e. their own interests).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,445
    edited June 15
    Kay Burley introducing Mark Walport as "Former Chief Scientific Advisor and member of SAGE". 🤦‍♂️ 🙄

    EDIT: Oops he is, I got him confused with David King for a second.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 34,983
    Charles said:

    Sandpit said:

    Newspapers contradicting themselves, even within the same issue, is as old an issue as MPs complaining about government announcements not being made first in Parliament.

    (FWIW, yesterday’s announcement really should have been in Parliament, Hoyle was right).

    Except that Vallence and Whitty can’t speak in parliament

    I don’t think there is anything intrinsically wrong about the PM speaking directly to the electorate on major issues provided that it is rapidly followed up with a discussion in parliament
    Vallence and Whitty is a fair comment. Maybe I’d have had the PM in Parliament, with SoS Health and the two scientists giving public justification later.

    I’m still of the opinion that Parliament should hear these things first, but governments have of course been doing what they do for decades. At least the current Speaker genuinely demands respect, in stark contrast to his predecessor.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 11,988
    edited June 15

    No messing about by Sherelle Jacobs:

    "a middle class zoomocracy facing few risks to its material comfort"

    "the great danger is that Britain will stumble into a Zero Covid strategy in desperate pursuit of herd immunity."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/14/isnt-delay-disastrous-trap-pm-country/

    The key to understanding the "middle class zoomocracy" or whatever better name it should be called is not that it faces few risks, it is that life is materially better for them under lockdown than pre covid. More time at a nice big home with a garden, more time with the family, less time commuting and significantly better off financially. Of course they don't want to leave this lifestyle!

    This is far from the whole middle class many of whom are sadly suffering greatly, but it is a substantial part of it.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 3,699
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m afraid I still laugh out loud at the description of restrictions as “lockdown”. With the honourable exception of those working in the travel and hospitality industries, they really are no more than a minor inconvenience at this point.

    This comment is a total insult. Tell that to all the small businesses going to the wall from lack of casual trade due to mask wearing. The families split between more than two households. My friend that will miss her father’s funeral tomorrow because she cannot get in and out the country. The kids missing yet more weeks of education because one of their number has a sniffle.
    That’s not what I’m saying, my point is of the media twisting language so that relatively minor restriction are still being described as “lockdown”.

    Yes, of course certain people and industries are still badly affected by the remaining restrictions, but for most people they are a relatively minor inconvenience to their everyday lives.
    It definitely isn't lockdown - so yes the media are using lazy language. But it isn't a "minor inconvenience" if its your job or your business that is being played like a yoyo. That the government are about to pull their financial support is genuinely absurd - after 15 months of support to keep businesses going they're prepared to bankrupt them now?

    Once again its the politics of stupid by the clowncar government. If the media were any good they would be asking these rather basic questions.
    The holiday plans of said Journalists are way more important than people's actual jobs..
    As Charles Walker said, the people who are making the decisions are living in very comfortable houses with secure jobs whilst the people most impacted by their decisions, jobs-wise and socially, are not.
This discussion has been closed.