LAB gets its best Westminster by-election performance for five years at Airdrie & Shotts – political

Good morning

The Airdrie and Shotts result confirms tactical voting and the split of 53.6/46.4 in favour of the union, which also confirms the recent trend away from Independence

My wife and I are greatly saddened with the way Scotland is descending into an acrimonious and ever more rancorous divide between the Scots themselves, as the governance of the country slides further into disharmony and disarray

I know McVities decision to close it's Glasgow factory and concentrate it's production on it's other RUK factories may not be directly a result of the chaos over the Scottish constitution, but it is bound to play an ever increasing negative factor on those individuals and companies who would like to invest in Scotland, but look at the years of uncertainty and can invest elsewhere in the UK

Our Nationalist friends on here are so dismissive of anyone who may support the union in their blind zeal to gain Independence, but I really do believe that the attraction to most Scots of divorce from the RUK with all it entails in currency, pensions, borders and even the strong cross border family ties is likely to see either indyref2 won by the union or even the SNP 'kicking the can down the road' as the way to independence seems near impossible to win.

What is certain though, is that Nicola cannot continue 'stonewalling every question' about the consequences of her Independence position and she needs to start laying out her proposals to the Scottish people for a post Independent Scotland and be examined by impartial experts with the plus and minuses made absolutely clear to the people of Scotland

The Scots deserve nothing less

noneoftheabove said:

IanB2 said:

noneoftheabove said:

IanB2 said:

This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

Isnt the official guidance for under 40s to take another vaccine IF available. If one is not available surely they can still get AZ?

That does appear to be the national guidance, at least as initially reported by the BBC. However the island's main vaccine centre is saying that they are "not allowed" to give the AZN. Unless advice has changed before it was transmitted out to the field, this may be a case of whoever runs the island's vaccination centre not understanding, in which case hopefully s/he'll soon be put straight. You can imagine how upset people are; I'd have been furious, waiting anxiously for months and then turning up there, if I'd been sent home.

As it is, I did my NHS antibody test yesterday afternoon (as part of the random sampling study) and it showed I had long-term antibodies after my single AZN, which is very reassuring!

It is the guidance on the govt official website, which for covid stuff does tend to be updated on the day anything changes. It is also what was said in the press conferences, it baffles me how this can end up misunderstood.

Local under-40s are saying that's what they've told. The local council has tweeted that under-40s will "directed to vaccination centres offering Pfizer and Moderna in the local area in line with JVCI guidance" - except there aren't any bookable through the national website, as North Island isn't seen as "local". The NHS Trust and CCG have both so far refused to provide a statement - which suggests they are urgently trying to find out what is going on.

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

Looks like my local centre is going to be full pelt all day. The 15 min waiting chairs are full of people in their 30s mostly I'd guess

IanB2 said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment

i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.

My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.

That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.

Not sure what Mr Highes is complaining about. I thought he was a Conservative. Conservative Party policy is to privatise as much of the NHS as possible. And sell it off to American profiteers.

Dura_Ace said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2021/may/13/glasgow-protesters-celebrate-after-blocking-immigration-raid-video

Well done Glasgow. Although, ideally it should have ended with the van upside down and on fire.

I absolutely don't approve of doxing but I think I have found your true identity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5k5Kz74ozM

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment

i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.

My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.

That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.

I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

I believe there is some risk of a burst or perforated eardrum.

I suspect there were also a lot of old people coming in routinely for it, many of whom were simply losing their hearing due to age, creating a lot of work.

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

HYUFD said:

Yet more evidence of the Unionist tactical voting that deprived the SNP of a majority last week in Airdrie and Shotts then.

The SNP majority not only down 7% on the 2019 general election but also down 11% from the majority it got in the equivalent Scottish Parliament seat a week ago

Vote % up you numpty, in a real election it would have been a walkover, only 34% got off their arses. Unionists piled in but even with SNP voters staying at home the hapless unionist vote rigging donkeys could not even get near.

malcolmg said:

MarqueeMark said:

Tories and LibDems did their bit at Airdrie to unseat the SNP - tactical voting donated 7.3% to Labour. However, with the Labour vote only going up 6.5%, they let the Unionist side down, going backwards.

Labour is still not in a position to tackle the SNP. Even with the help of its political rivals.

3 unionist parties trying to rig the result and they still got a thumping. What a parcel of rogues but useless with it.

So says the man that is a worshipping fan boy of the man described by his own QC as a bully and sex pest. How useless was his party eh?

Gallowgate said:

It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.

eek said:

Gallowgate said:

It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.

But pretty much every vulnerable person who wants to be vaccinated has been vaccinated in the UK. We can only make policy based on our own circumstances.

Deaths and hospitalisations continue to fall.

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen

No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
(I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)

I can still dream

IanB2 said:

Selebian said:

alex_ said:

Pulpstar said:

IanB2 said:

This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

You'd have thought that would be sorted via the system ?

You’d have thought people should be allowed to make an informed choice to accept AZ...

That's what happened to me (39). In vaccination booth I was asked whether I was aware of the clotting issue with AZN and that the government had announced that under 40s would be phased off AZN and given a choice. But the vaccination centre had only AZN, so I could have it or walk away and wait for an appointment for Pfizer/Moderna, likely a few weeks.

All fine, but it would perhaps have made sense to advertise that in advance and let people cancel if desired (however, that may have resulted in more cancellations - more likely to take it when you're already there?). I was happy anyway and would not have cancelled given the option.

Out of interest where was your centre?

Selby, N Yorks. They were slightly blindsided by the announcement as it's a temporary centre in a leisure centre and they don't have the facilities there at present for anything other than AZN (just fridges). So they'll either be moving it or setting something up there, they weren't too sure.

Most people I know locally have received AZN for that reason. There's a smaller centre in a GP surgery that was issuing Pfizer early on (I know a 93 year old who got that before Christmas) but I don't know anyone else who has been vaccinated there, although I believe it is still running.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.

It's got "go back home" written all over it.

IanB2 said:

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment

i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.

My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.

That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.

I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

I believe there is some risk of a burst or perforated eardrum.

I suspect there were also a lot of old people coming in routinely for it, many of whom were simply losing their hearing due to age, creating a lot of work.

My wife has micro-suction on one ear once a year or so - perforated eardrum from diving years ago, had to have surgery to fix it and syringing was banned for her on that ear then. Massive delays getting appointments, she's also gone private a few times.

YouGov

Con 45 (+2)

Lab 30 (-3)

Greens 8 (+2)

Other party shares not listed.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.

Seems a stretch to me. Asian born people don't have a particular history of unfair deportation.

Anyway you're right that one needs to be careful, especially after a drink, and even more so if you're in the public eye. Just appears to be straying into over-sensitivity often though.

(Edit: Asian born or those British born of Asian heritage as in Priti Patel's case)

Malmesbury said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment

i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.

My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.

I have heard a similar story from a mate.

The difference is surgery's approaches to Covid is incredible, many have remained fully throughout the pandemic and have operated almost normally. Others have remained closed. It really is the luck of the draw as to where you live as to what service you will get from your surgery.

Yes - my GP should get a some kind of recognition (how do you recommend people for this?)

https://www.gov.uk/honours/nominate-someone-in-the-uk

NerysHughes said:

IanB2 said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment

i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.

My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.

That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.

He was unable to hear due to the infection.

Many surgeries still do it

A spray mix of antibiotics with some sort of alcohol/acid mix would make more sense.

IanB2 said:

MattW said:

IanB2 said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

NerysHughes said:

rottenborough said:

Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment

i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.

My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.

That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.

I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

I believe there is some risk of a burst or perforated eardrum.

I suspect there were also a lot of old people coming in routinely for it, many of whom were simply losing their hearing due to age, creating a lot of work.

I had a hearing issue last year which turned to be earwax.

Now I simply do olive oil in the ear periodically to keep them clear.

Dura_Ace said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2021/may/13/glasgow-protesters-celebrate-after-blocking-immigration-raid-video

Well done Glasgow. Although, ideally it should have ended with the van upside down and on fire.

Went down for an hour myself in the afternoon, pretty good atmosphere. The lad who scrambled under the immigratio van first thing and stayed there deserves a medal, or the Glasgow equivalent, loads of free pints.

Quite moving; the Palestinian flag has naturally sent the WATP lads mental, if they weren't raging enough already.

https://twitter.com/david_millar/status/1392969258989150208?s=20

bigjohnowls said:

CarlottaVance said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 45% (+2)
LAB: 30% (-3)
GRN: 8% (+2)
LDEM: 7% (-)
REFUK: 2% (-1)

via @YouGov
Chgs. w/ 05 May

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

SKS fans please explain.

Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen

No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
(I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)

I can still dream

Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!

On topic, just over a decade ago Labour held this seat with a majority over 12,000, now losing it by 1,800 votes is Labour's best by election performance in five years.

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen

No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
(I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)

I can still dream

Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!

Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?

NickPalmer said:

There was more Labour effort here than was obvious - when it became obvious that Hartlepool was lost, some full-timers were diverted to Airdrie, and every member in the country got an appeal to help telephone GOTV on the day. That's why I was struck by the lack of interest here (Betfair didn't even bother to have a market, though they offer bets on all kinds of stuff). I think it's a very good result and encouraging for Sarwar despite the grumpy comments from Tories downthread.

That's interesting. What also surprises me is the near-universal assumption on PB that it shows Unionist tactical; voting. I said yersterday I was interested in differential turnout, and that was because I was expecting a smaller turnout. The turnout this week was indeed about 5/9 that of the last GE.

On those figures, one could just as well interpret the situation as being that there was no Unionist tactical voting at all and that the Tories all stayed at home or voted Tory because of Mr Sarwar's attacks; and (admittedly slightly mischievously) that the ONLY tactical voting was actually pro-Indy - no Green this time (SG vote was 1.7 percentage points at the GE). And that it was the GOTV operation which you describe that made the biggest change, in the Labour vote - but that was based on resources from all over GB from what you say (which is what you mean, or am I wrong? logically for a monolithic GB-wide party in a Westminster seat, of course).

As for the lack of interest, I suppose it's a sign of changed politics that even PB is meh about the prospect of Labour winning in a by election, caused by resignation of the incumbent to move to Holyrood (at the vote of many of the same voters, of course), in a seat which had Ms Liddell and Mr Reid representing it in the days when the Labour vote was counted not so much with Oor Wullie's bucket and shovel, but a Ruston Bucyrus steam excavator.

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen

No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
(I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)

I can still dream

Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!

Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?

The Greens' economic policies are to the left of Labour (to the extent we know anything of the latter's policies). No chance of that.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YouGov

Con 45 (+2)

Lab 30 (-3)

Greens 8 (+2)

Other party shares not listed.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

Labour on 30

How has it come to this

I know, its far too high...

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

"why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen

No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
(I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)

I can still dream

Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!

Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?

The Greens' economic policies are to the left of Labour (to the extent we know anything of the latter's policies). No chance of that.

I mean I was half joking, but it's possible the Greens replace Labour as the opposition if the momentum (lol) continues.

turbotubbs said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YouGov

Con 45 (+2)

Lab 30 (-3)

Greens 8 (+2)

Other party shares not listed.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

Labour on 30

How has it come to this

I know, its far too high...

Was Brown,'s low point about 28%.?

Singapore has announced a return to partial lockdown conditions today, after a vanishingly small number of cases (71 in a week). Hospitality shut, border even more slammed shut than before, gatherings limited to two people. And this is with approx half of adults having received one dose already and mask wearing mandatory at all times when outside the home (including outdoors).

So I gather, there is vaccine hesitancy in the older section of the citizen population so the government will continue to pursue a zero covid strategy until the virus burns out in the rest of the world. Prioritising the health of those people over the economy and the lives of everyone else.

As for travel in and out of what is supposed to be the worlds preeminent entrepôt... they will find it politically and diplomatically difficult to open any significant travel corridors with Western countries until Malaysia and Indonesia have caught up. And for any country with vaccine hesitancy and ongoing cases, they will stay shut essentially forever, unless they can get their own population past vaccine hesitancy. The steady trickle of (Western) foreign workers leaving the country will soon turn to a flood.

In the rush for us all to get our kids to school, keep businesses afloat and return to the pub, I don’t think it’s been at all well discussed just how significant covid will prove to be to international relations.

Let us hope with all we have that the Uk government follows a more realistic course than this.

RochdalePioneers said:

https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

Being ironic? (just checking.)

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Root, could be wrong but I think his Labour Party was down to 19% at one point.

Must be said, as I did, at the time, Brown never got a fair press. He was either lambasted absolutely or deemed to be responsible for all that is good.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Root, could be wrong but I think his Labour Party was down to 19% at one point.

Must be said, as I did, at the time, Brown never got a fair press. He was either lambasted absolutely or deemed to be responsible for all that is good.

They tried to make him out to be the saviour in the early days, but you can't polish a turd.

IanB2 said:

noneoftheabove said:

IanB2 said:

noneoftheabove said:

IanB2 said:

This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

Isnt the official guidance for under 40s to take another vaccine IF available. If one is not available surely they can still get AZ?

That does appear to be the national guidance, at least as initially reported by the BBC. However the island's main vaccine centre is saying that they are "not allowed" to give the AZN. Unless advice has changed before it was transmitted out to the field, this may be a case of whoever runs the island's vaccination centre not understanding, in which case hopefully s/he'll soon be put straight. You can imagine how upset people are; I'd have been furious, waiting anxiously for months and then turning up there, if I'd been sent home.

As it is, I did my NHS antibody test yesterday afternoon (as part of the random sampling study) and it showed I had long-term antibodies after my single AZN, which is very reassuring!

It is the guidance on the govt official website, which for covid stuff does tend to be updated on the day anything changes. It is also what was said in the press conferences, it baffles me how this can end up misunderstood.

Local under-40s are saying that's what they've told. The local council has tweeted that under-40s will "directed to vaccination centres offering Pfizer and Moderna in the local area in line with JVCI guidance" - except there aren't any bookable through the national website, as North Island isn't seen as "local". The NHS Trust and CCG have both so far refused to provide a statement - which suggests they are urgently trying to find out what is going on.

I'm 38 and I got turned away from the Riverside centre in Newport yesterday. When I got to the admin desk they asked how old I was, and the lady said that she was sorry but they "would have to refuse me" because they only had the AZ vaccine and they "were not allowed" to give it to me due to my age. I would have been happy to have received it, but was not given the option to. She said that I wasn't the first person that they had had to turn away. I was told to contact my GP and was escorted out. My GP told me that I should try to find somewhere on the mainland that was offering Pfizer because they are not vaccinating my cohort yet. I've managed to book an appointment in Southampton for 25 May, but when I went on to the NHS site this morning, I still was given the Riverside as the first option.

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

"why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.

Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.

Deportation and repatriation of people who look like Priti Patel and myself has been the language of the racists from Powell to the BNP.

Remember when cartoonists portrayed George W. Bush like a chimp but didn’t portray Obama as a chimp?

Like that, you just don’t go there and talk about deporting the darkies.

Gallowgate said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbyn left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.

But isn't the Conservative government busy implementing all of Corbyn's economic policies?

The Conservatives have supported the economy and the workers in the private sector through the greatest pandemic we have ever known. It will work hard (and take a popularity hit) when it has to to revert the economy to where it was before the pandemic.

If anyone thinks Corbynism was about protecting the private sector - or returning us to a pre-pandemic economic model.....lolz. Corbynism was about spending shit loads of cash for the public sector. God alone knows how screwed we would have been with 2 or 3 years of Corbynism and THEN the pandemic.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

"why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.

Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.

Deportation and repatriation of people who look like Priti Patel and myself has been the language of the racists from Powell to the BNP.

Remember when cartoonists portrayed George W. Bush like a chimp but didn’t portray Obama as a chimp?

Like that, you just don’t go there and talk about deporting the darkies.

Baffling to me that this should need explaining to anyone on here.

RochdalePioneers said:

https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

The picture of Johnson on that feed with a capo on his guitar and his fretboard hand the wrong side of it pretty much sums him up! ( a post for music nerds)

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

Gallowgate said:

Omnium said:

borisatsun said:

Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.

Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen

No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
(I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)

I can still dream

Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!

Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?

The Greens' economic policies are to the left of Labour (to the extent we know anything of the latter's policies). No chance of that.

I mean I was half joking, but it's possible the Greens replace Labour as the opposition if the momentum (lol) continues.

Yes - interesting how the territorial squeeze is all on the left whereas the votes are increasingly moving to the right.

Balls as a LD would be great fun though.

bigjohnowls said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

bigjohnowls said:

CarlottaVance said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 45% (+2)
LAB: 30% (-3)
GRN: 8% (+2)
LDEM: 7% (-)
REFUK: 2% (-1)

via @YouGov
Chgs. w/ 05 May

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

SKS fans please explain.

Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.

You clearly haven't been telephone canvassing for Labour.

Corbyn doesn't get a mention

Lack of policies lack of charisma lack of warmth lack of being on my side get plenty.

Main thing to make a return They are all the same

So what is your solution? Continuity-Corbo?

Malmesbury said:

bigjohnowls said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

bigjohnowls said:

CarlottaVance said:

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 45% (+2)
LAB: 30% (-3)
GRN: 8% (+2)
LDEM: 7% (-)
REFUK: 2% (-1)

via @YouGov
Chgs. w/ 05 May

https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

SKS fans please explain.

Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.

You clearly haven't been telephone canvassing for Labour.

Corbyn doesn't get a mention

Lack of policies lack of charisma lack of warmth lack of being on my side get plenty.

Main thing to make a return They are all the same

The thing I don't get is this - there are oceans of Social Democratic policies out there. That would warm the hearts of everyone from Corbynistas to the wet end of the Conservatives. That's lots and lots of votes.

Yes, I know. This is what Blair did. And hence Evul.

But why not?

Did Blair set out lots of Labour policies prior to the 1997 election campaign? I was only 5 years old at the time so obviously I don't know. It seems that in modern times the opposition only set out policies when the manifesto gets released.

Mr. Pioneers, kneeling for BLM is not the act of someone on any branch of the right.

It's pathetic.

Maybe that's the thing. Starmer's good at persuading people he isn't one of them. Boris Johnson is full of shit, but he's charismatic and likeable. Starmer's the opposite.

And allowing the weedy punching footage to be taken then aired was just weird.

RochdalePioneers said:

https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

Thankyou, Ian Faith...

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Pioneers, kneeling for BLM is not the act of someone on any branch of the right.

It's pathetic.

Maybe that's the thing. Starmer's good at persuading people he isn't one of them. Boris Johnson is full of shit, but he's charismatic and likeable. Starmer's the opposite.

And allowing the weedy punching footage to be taken then aired was just weird.

Showing opposition to the murder of black people by US police = "pathetic". Aye alright then.

Christ.

moonshine said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Omnium said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.

"why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.

Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.

Deportation and repatriation of people who look like Priti Patel and myself has been the language of the racists from Powell to the BNP.

Remember when cartoonists portrayed George W. Bush like a chimp but didn’t portray Obama as a chimp?

Like that, you just don’t go there and talk about deporting the darkies.

Baffling to me that this should need explaining to anyone on here.

Some people don’t have a racist bone in their body so they just can’t comprehend racism.