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LAB gets its best Westminster by-election performance for five years at Airdrie & Shotts – political

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited May 2021
    Good morning

    The Airdrie and Shotts result confirms tactical voting and the split of 53.6/46.4 in favour of the union, which also confirms the recent trend away from Independence

    My wife and I are greatly saddened with the way Scotland is descending into an acrimonious and ever more rancorous divide between the Scots themselves, as the governance of the country slides further into disharmony and disarray

    I know McVities decision to close it's Glasgow factory and concentrate it's production on it's other RUK factories may not be directly a result of the chaos over the Scottish constitution, but it is bound to play an ever increasing negative factor on those individuals and companies who would like to invest in Scotland, but look at the years of uncertainty and can invest elsewhere in the UK

    Our Nationalist friends on here are so dismissive of anyone who may support the union in their blind zeal to gain Independence, but I really do believe that the attraction to most Scots of divorce from the RUK with all it entails in currency, pensions, borders and even the strong cross border family ties is likely to see either indyref2 won by the union or even the SNP 'kicking the can down the road' as the way to independence seems near impossible to win.

    What is certain though, is that Nicola cannot continue 'stonewalling every question' about the consequences of her Independence position and she needs to start laying out her proposals to the Scottish people for a post Independent Scotland and be examined by impartial experts with the plus and minuses made absolutely clear to the people of Scotland

    The Scots deserve nothing less

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,595

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    To be honest, if (and it is early days of this) the Indian variant does escape vaccine enough to cause major problems then it is probably just as well the inquiry doesn't start until next year, because the people who matter will be v busy clearing up Johnson's mess all thru this summer and autumn.

    I see that things are getting iffy again in the Western Pacific.

    https://twitter.com/BBCLBicker/status/1393085158316679169?s=19

    The cases of vaccine breakthrough in Singapore Airport too:

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1392366780828553221?s=19

    It really would have been wise to red list India a bit more promptly.
    Our own vaccination rates seem more like 300k a day recently than the 600k we were touching a week or two ago.
    Vaccines minister Nadhim Zahawi on #r4today just now: "You will see bigger and bigger numbers today, tomorrow and so on."

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1393104365171392514?s=20
    Yesterday was the highest reporting Thursday.

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

    Isnt the official guidance for under 40s to take another vaccine IF available. If one is not available surely they can still get AZ?
    That does appear to be the national guidance, at least as initially reported by the BBC. However the island's main vaccine centre is saying that they are "not allowed" to give the AZN. Unless advice has changed before it was transmitted out to the field, this may be a case of whoever runs the island's vaccination centre not understanding, in which case hopefully s/he'll soon be put straight. You can imagine how upset people are; I'd have been furious, waiting anxiously for months and then turning up there, if I'd been sent home.

    As it is, I did my NHS antibody test yesterday afternoon (as part of the random sampling study) and it showed I had long-term antibodies after my single AZN, which is very reassuring!
    It is the guidance on the govt official website, which for covid stuff does tend to be updated on the day anything changes. It is also what was said in the press conferences, it baffles me how this can end up misunderstood.
    Local under-40s are saying that's what they've told. The local council has tweeted that under-40s will "directed to vaccination centres offering Pfizer and Moderna in the local area in line with JVCI guidance" - except there aren't any bookable through the national website, as North Island isn't seen as "local". The NHS Trust and CCG have both so far refused to provide a statement - which suggests they are urgently trying to find out what is going on.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited May 2021
    DavidL said:

    There was more Labour effort here than was obvious - when it became obvious that Hartlepool was lost, some full-timers were diverted to Airdrie, and every member in the country got an appeal to help telephone GOTV on the day. That's why I was struck by the lack of interest here (Betfair didn't even bother to have a market, though they offer bets on all kinds of stuff). I think it's a very good result and encouraging for Sarwar despite the grumpy comments from Tories downthread.

    My grumpy comment is wtf were 2812 Tories playing at? I would have voted Labour here in a heart beat and anyone who is a thinking member of the Conservative and UNIONIST party really should have done the same. Yet another opportunity missed.
    A better criticism might be aimed at the 40,000 who didn't turn up at all. At least those who turned up and voted Tory were helping to register that in this constituency fewer than half the voters voted for a separatist party. That is the bit that Nicola and friends will notice in the longer run and is confirming an important trend. Still a shame about the 40,000.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    Up until 2010 at least, it was more that the LibDems were very good at by-elections!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149
    edited May 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

    These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.



    Is that feasible for those who live here?

    (Side-point: EU will have more time on this if they limit travel effectively, not many people of Indian origin live there compared to UK)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Looks like my local centre is going to be full pelt all day. The 15 min waiting chairs are full of people in their 30s mostly I'd guess
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    Not sure what Mr Highes is complaining about. I thought he was a Conservative. Conservative Party policy is to privatise as much of the NHS as possible. And sell it off to American profiteers.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    Tories and LibDems did their bit at Airdrie to unseat the SNP - tactical voting donated 7.3% to Labour. However, with the Labour vote only going up 6.5%, they let the Unionist side down, going backwards.

    Labour is still not in a position to tackle the SNP. Even with the help of its political rivals.

    3 unionist parties trying to rig the result and they still got a thumping. What a parcel of rogues but useless with it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2021/may/13/glasgow-protesters-celebrate-after-blocking-immigration-raid-video

    Well done Glasgow. Although, ideally it should have ended with the van upside down and on fire.

    I absolutely don't approve of doxing but I think I have found your true identity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5k5Kz74ozM
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    alex_ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

    You'd have thought that would be sorted via the system ?
    You’d have thought people should be allowed to make an informed choice to accept AZ...
    That's what happened to me (39). In vaccination booth I was asked whether I was aware of the clotting issue with AZN and that the government had announced that under 40s would be phased off AZN and given a choice. But the vaccination centre had only AZN, so I could have it or walk away and wait for an appointment for Pfizer/Moderna, likely a few weeks.

    All fine, but it would perhaps have made sense to advertise that in advance and let people cancel if desired (however, that may have resulted in more cancellations - more likely to take it when you're already there?). I was happy anyway and would not have cancelled given the option.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    edited May 2021
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

    These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.
    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    I believe there is some risk of a burst or perforated eardrum.

    I suspect there were also a lot of old people coming in routinely for it, many of whom were simply losing their hearing due to age, creating a lot of work.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Selebian said:

    alex_ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

    You'd have thought that would be sorted via the system ?
    You’d have thought people should be allowed to make an informed choice to accept AZ...
    That's what happened to me (39). In vaccination booth I was asked whether I was aware of the clotting issue with AZN and that the government had announced that under 40s would be phased off AZN and given a choice. But the vaccination centre had only AZN, so I could have it or walk away and wait for an appointment for Pfizer/Moderna, likely a few weeks.

    All fine, but it would perhaps have made sense to advertise that in advance and let people cancel if desired (however, that may have resulted in more cancellations - more likely to take it when you're already there?). I was happy anyway and would not have cancelled given the option.
    Out of interest where was your centre?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    ClippP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    Not sure what Mr Highes is complaining about. I thought he was a Conservative. Conservative Party policy is to privatise as much of the NHS as possible. And sell it off to American profiteers.
    I don’t think that is Conservative Party policy mate
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    HYUFD said:

    Yet more evidence of the Unionist tactical voting that deprived the SNP of a majority last week in Airdrie and Shotts then.

    The SNP majority not only down 7% on the 2019 general election but also down 11% from the majority it got in the equivalent Scottish Parliament seat a week ago

    Vote % up you numpty, in a real election it would have been a walkover, only 34% got off their arses. Unionists piled in but even with SNP voters staying at home the hapless unionist vote rigging donkeys could not even get near.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    He was unable to hear due to the infection.

    Many surgeries still do it
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    ClippP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    Not sure what Mr Highes is complaining about. I thought he was a Conservative. Conservative Party policy is to privatise as much of the NHS as possible. And sell it off to American profiteers.
    I don’t think that is Conservative Party policy mate
    They do not publicise the fact, Mr Gate, but that is the objective. If you seek for evidence, look around you.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    malcolmg said:

    Tories and LibDems did their bit at Airdrie to unseat the SNP - tactical voting donated 7.3% to Labour. However, with the Labour vote only going up 6.5%, they let the Unionist side down, going backwards.

    Labour is still not in a position to tackle the SNP. Even with the help of its political rivals.

    3 unionist parties trying to rig the result and they still got a thumping. What a parcel of rogues but useless with it.
    So says the man that is a worshipping fan boy of the man described by his own QC as a bully and sex pest. How useless was his party eh?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

    That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

    Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    eek said:

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

    That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.
    But pretty much every vulnerable person who wants to be vaccinated has been vaccinated in the UK. We can only make policy based on our own circumstances.

    Deaths and hospitalisations continue to fall.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    I have heard a similar story from a mate.
    The difference is surgery's approaches to Covid is incredible, many have remained fully throughout the pandemic and have operated almost normally. Others have remained closed. It really is the luck of the draw as to where you live as to what service you will get from your surgery.
    Yes - my GP should get a some kind of recognition (how do you recommend people for this?) - at the start of the lockdown/pandemic she

    - Immediately updated her lists of vulnerable patients.
    - Proactively got the lists of vulnerable loaded into the central held system. At that time there was a bit of confusion about who could do this. She took the approach that she had clinical judgement and access - and went ahead.
    - Before physical visits were stopped, had video calling already setup. And would switch between about 8 different systems to find one that would work with whatever the parent has.
    - When the physical visits stopped, directed the staff in the health centre (still on the payroll, but with no work) to volunteer to deliver the food parcels for the elderly and deliver prescriptions.
    - When the surgery was assessed as unsuitable as a vaccination centre, called the builders in. Over Christmas...

    When faced with issues/problems, he attitude throughout has been "How do we get round this/fix it?"

    Compared to the next GP over - who went missing. Only to re-appear on social media to complain. About pictures of the huge pile of mail building up inside the doors of his practise. Then vanished again.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,894
    edited May 2021
    deleted -- point made by faster typists
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    IanB2 said:

    Selebian said:

    alex_ said:

    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

    You'd have thought that would be sorted via the system ?
    You’d have thought people should be allowed to make an informed choice to accept AZ...
    That's what happened to me (39). In vaccination booth I was asked whether I was aware of the clotting issue with AZN and that the government had announced that under 40s would be phased off AZN and given a choice. But the vaccination centre had only AZN, so I could have it or walk away and wait for an appointment for Pfizer/Moderna, likely a few weeks.

    All fine, but it would perhaps have made sense to advertise that in advance and let people cancel if desired (however, that may have resulted in more cancellations - more likely to take it when you're already there?). I was happy anyway and would not have cancelled given the option.
    Out of interest where was your centre?
    Selby, N Yorks. They were slightly blindsided by the announcement as it's a temporary centre in a leisure centre and they don't have the facilities there at present for anything other than AZN (just fridges). So they'll either be moving it or setting something up there, they weren't too sure.

    Most people I know locally have received AZN for that reason. There's a smaller centre in a GP surgery that was issuing Pfizer early on (I know a 93 year old who got that before Christmas) but I don't know anyone else who has been vaccinated there, although I believe it is still running.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It matters a bit, because if they don't catch it, they can't spread it.
    It doesn’t matter. As long as the vulnerable are vaccinated. Who cares if the vaccinated spread it to the vaccinated, so long as nobody gets seriously ill?

    We cannot eliminate all risk. This is ridiculous.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

    Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.
    It's got "go back home" written all over it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    eek said:

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

    That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.
    Those are people who chose not to be vaccinated. I don't have a lot of sympathy if they get COVID.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

    These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.
    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    I believe there is some risk of a burst or perforated eardrum.

    I suspect there were also a lot of old people coming in routinely for it, many of whom were simply losing their hearing due to age, creating a lot of work.
    My wife has micro-suction on one ear once a year or so - perforated eardrum from diving years ago, had to have surgery to fix it and syringing was banned for her on that ear then. Massive delays getting appointments, she's also gone private a few times.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited May 2021
    YouGov

    Con 45 (+2)

    Lab 30 (-3)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Other party shares not listed.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

    Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.
    It's got "go back home" written all over it.
    Politicians can avoid all this drama by simply not being on Twitter. Alternatively by not tweeting on a whim.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    edited May 2021

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

    Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.
    Seems a stretch to me. Asian born people don't have a particular history of unfair deportation.

    Anyway you're right that one needs to be careful, especially after a drink, and even more so if you're in the public eye. Just appears to be straying into over-sensitivity often though.

    (Edit: Asian born or those British born of Asian heritage as in Priti Patel's case)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited May 2021
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

    That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.
    Those are people who chose not to be vaccinated. I don't have a lot of sympathy if they get COVID.
    Today Prof Hunter on R4 said June 21 is at risk because the NHS might come "under pressure".

    A quick glance at the Guardian's headlines every year for the past 20 years means that if this is the precedent then we will have a lockdown every winter until further notice.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    I have heard a similar story from a mate.
    The difference is surgery's approaches to Covid is incredible, many have remained fully throughout the pandemic and have operated almost normally. Others have remained closed. It really is the luck of the draw as to where you live as to what service you will get from your surgery.
    Yes - my GP should get a some kind of recognition (how do you recommend people for this?)
    https://www.gov.uk/honours/nominate-someone-in-the-uk
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

    Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.
    It's got "go back home" written all over it.
    Politicians can avoid all this drama by simply not being on Twitter. Alternatively by not tweeting on a whim.
    Frankly as far as I'm concerned better out than in. I'd rather know who I'm dealing with than have him say such things behind closed doors or in private, even. Yes they might be private views but I'd rather know them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.




    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    He was unable to hear due to the infection.

    Many surgeries still do it
    A spray mix of antibiotics with some sort of alcohol/acid mix would make more sense.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    YouGov

    Con 45 (+2)

    Lab 30 (-3)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Other party shares not listed.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

    Labour on 30

    How has it come to this
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,149
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

    These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.
    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    I believe there is some risk of a burst or perforated eardrum.

    I suspect there were also a lot of old people coming in routinely for it, many of whom were simply losing their hearing due to age, creating a lot of work.
    I had a hearing issue last year which turned to be earwax.

    Now I simply do olive oil in the ear periodically to keep them clear.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    YouGov

    Con 45 (+2)

    Lab 30 (-3)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Other party shares not listed.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

    Labour on 30

    How has it come to this
    Well, Greens on 8% probably has something to do with it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited May 2021
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2021/may/13/glasgow-protesters-celebrate-after-blocking-immigration-raid-video

    Well done Glasgow. Although, ideally it should have ended with the van upside down and on fire.

    Went down for an hour myself in the afternoon, pretty good atmosphere. The lad who scrambled under the immigratio van first thing and stayed there deserves a medal, or the Glasgow equivalent, loads of free pints.

    Quite moving; the Palestinian flag has naturally sent the WATP lads mental, if they weren't raging enough already.

    https://twitter.com/david_millar/status/1392969258989150208?s=20
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,661

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited May 2021

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

    Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

    Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.
    Ah, but if you compare Keir’s ratings to the unpopularity benchmark that is Corbyn, you’ll see he’s just as bad. Consequently we should bring back Corbyn.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
    Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

    Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,661

    YouGov

    Con 45 (+2)

    Lab 30 (-3)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Other party shares not listed.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

    Labour on 30

    How has it come to this
    What reasons does SKS give for voting Labour.

    No charisma

    No policies

    No principles

    No hope

    RIP UK Labour
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    On topic, just over a decade ago Labour held this seat with a majority over 12,000, now losing it by 1,800 votes is Labour's best by election performance in five years.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958
    edited May 2021
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    It sounds racist in isolation: calling for a British-born woman of Asian descent to be deported. Perhaps less so in context: suggesting the politician deporting other people should herself be deported. That would be the defence plea, or at least the mitigation.

    Best to avoid doubt: don't make crass comments about race issues; don't tweet while pissed.
    It's got "go back home" written all over it.
    Politicians can avoid all this drama by simply not being on Twitter. Alternatively by not tweeting on a whim.
    Frankly as far as I'm concerned better out than in. I'd rather know who I'm dealing with than have him say such things behind closed doors or in private, even. Yes they might be private views but I'd rather know them.
    It's still pretty funny all the Lab centrist dads pumping out outrage about Beckett though.




    Edit: not sure why images are being reduced to microscopic size but that's the Labour controls on immigration mug
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
    Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

    Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!
    Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
    While my impression of Ed Balls has massively improved since he left politics, and he seems genuinely a nice guy, I don't think he is the answer you are looking for.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited May 2021

    There was more Labour effort here than was obvious - when it became obvious that Hartlepool was lost, some full-timers were diverted to Airdrie, and every member in the country got an appeal to help telephone GOTV on the day. That's why I was struck by the lack of interest here (Betfair didn't even bother to have a market, though they offer bets on all kinds of stuff). I think it's a very good result and encouraging for Sarwar despite the grumpy comments from Tories downthread.

    That's interesting. What also surprises me is the near-universal assumption on PB that it shows Unionist tactical; voting. I said yersterday I was interested in differential turnout, and that was because I was expecting a smaller turnout. The turnout this week was indeed about 5/9 that of the last GE.

    On those figures, one could just as well interpret the situation as being that there was no Unionist tactical voting at all and that the Tories all stayed at home or voted Tory because of Mr Sarwar's attacks; and (admittedly slightly mischievously) that the ONLY tactical voting was actually pro-Indy - no Green this time (SG vote was 1.7 percentage points at the GE). And that it was the GOTV operation which you describe that made the biggest change, in the Labour vote - but that was based on resources from all over GB from what you say (which is what you mean, or am I wrong? logically for a monolithic GB-wide party in a Westminster seat, of course).

    As for the lack of interest, I suppose it's a sign of changed politics that even PB is meh about the prospect of Labour winning in a by election, caused by resignation of the incumbent to move to Holyrood (at the vote of many of the same voters, of course), in a seat which had Ms Liddell and Mr Reid representing it in the days when the Labour vote was counted not so much with Oor Wullie's bucket and shovel, but a Ruston Bucyrus steam excavator.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    On topic, just over a decade ago Labour held this seat with a majority over 12,000, now losing it by 1,800 votes is Labour's best by election performance in five years.

    The unknown here is if Labour had campaigned harder would they have won it or would the SNP voters have then bothered to actually go out and vote.

    Given the complete pointlessness of this election a week after far more important elections I'm surprised anyone voted.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
    Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

    Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!
    Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?
    The Greens' economic policies are to the left of Labour (to the extent we know anything of the latter's policies). No chance of that.
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 341
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Massive climbdown from NHS and government over telephone-only GP appointments.

    Huge win for Telegraph to be honest, which appears to have sunk this policy within 48 hours.

    Every patient to have right to see a GP as NHS abandons ‘total triage’

    Climbdown comes after The Telegraph revealed patients were being discouraged from visits and told to have online or phone discussion first
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

    My local surgery is still locked up, impossible to get an appointment
    i think they can remain so during pandemic. the argument this week was about what nhs is telling gps to do in medium term after covid restrictions lifted this summer.
    My parents are having to fund minor treatment themselves, as an example my dad needed both ears syringed due to an infection and had to go private to get it done.
    That has become pretty standard before the pandemic. For some reason my mother thinks she needs this done every couple of years, and she's had to go private for the last couple. I don't know whether the NHS has decided it's not a required treatment or whether it's that the risk of infection outweighs any benefit.
    I think NICE recommended against syringing in 2019. Safety grounds?

    These days they use a mini-hoover or easing oil.

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Is that feasible for those who live here?

    (Side-point: EU will have more time on this if they limit travel effectively, not many people of Indian origin live there compared to UK)

    Had my ears "hoovered" at Specsavers just before the first lockdown.
    GP surgeries are very reluctant to do it these days.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    YouGov

    Con 45 (+2)

    Lab 30 (-3)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Other party shares not listed.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

    Labour on 30

    How has it come to this
    I know, its far too high... :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited May 2021
    Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

    In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbynite left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

    In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

    Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    "why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

    In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbyn left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

    In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

    Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.

    But isn't the Conservative government busy implementing all of Corbyn's economic policies?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
    Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

    Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!
    Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?
    The Greens' economic policies are to the left of Labour (to the extent we know anything of the latter's policies). No chance of that.
    I mean I was half joking, but it's possible the Greens replace Labour as the opposition if the momentum (lol) continues.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    "why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.
    Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    YouGov

    Con 45 (+2)

    Lab 30 (-3)

    Greens 8 (+2)

    Other party shares not listed.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-and-cameron-sign-off-after-nightmare-weeks-rttx0qj99

    Labour on 30

    How has it come to this
    I know, its far too high... :)
    Was Brown,'s low point about 28%.?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,661

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

    Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.
    You clearly haven't been telephone canvassing for Labour.

    Corbyn doesn't get a mention

    Lack of policies lack of charisma lack of warmth lack of being on my side get plenty.

    Main thing to make a return They are all the same
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Singapore has announced a return to partial lockdown conditions today, after a vanishingly small number of cases (71 in a week). Hospitality shut, border even more slammed shut than before, gatherings limited to two people. And this is with approx half of adults having received one dose already and mask wearing mandatory at all times when outside the home (including outdoors).

    So I gather, there is vaccine hesitancy in the older section of the citizen population so the government will continue to pursue a zero covid strategy until the virus burns out in the rest of the world. Prioritising the health of those people over the economy and the lives of everyone else.

    As for travel in and out of what is supposed to be the worlds preeminent entrepôt... they will find it politically and diplomatically difficult to open any significant travel corridors with Western countries until Malaysia and Indonesia have caught up. And for any country with vaccine hesitancy and ongoing cases, they will stay shut essentially forever, unless they can get their own population past vaccine hesitancy. The steady trickle of (Western) foreign workers leaving the country will soon turn to a flood.

    In the rush for us all to get our kids to school, keep businesses afloat and return to the pub, I don’t think it’s been at all well discussed just how significant covid will prove to be to international relations.

    Let us hope with all we have that the Uk government follows a more realistic course than this.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Root, could be wrong but I think his Labour Party was down to 19% at one point.

    Must be said, as I did, at the time, Brown never got a fair press. He was either lambasted absolutely or deemed to be responsible for all that is good.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

    We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

    We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

    Being ironic? (just checking.)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,661
    Today is the last day of employment for hundreds of Labour staffers.

    Amongst SKS's many achievements is buggering the parties finances as membership plummets.

    Today's YG has SKS 35% behind the predicted position.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Mr. Root, could be wrong but I think his Labour Party was down to 19% at one point.

    Must be said, as I did, at the time, Brown never got a fair press. He was either lambasted absolutely or deemed to be responsible for all that is good.

    Mr. Root, could be wrong but I think his Labour Party was down to 19% at one point.

    Must be said, as I did, at the time, Brown never got a fair press. He was either lambasted absolutely or deemed to be responsible for all that is good.

    They tried to make him out to be the saviour in the early days, but you can't polish a turd.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Carnyx said:

    https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

    We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

    Being ironic? (just checking.)
    Sarcasm rarely works online.
  • MichelleCMichelleC Posts: 2
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

    Isnt the official guidance for under 40s to take another vaccine IF available. If one is not available surely they can still get AZ?
    That does appear to be the national guidance, at least as initially reported by the BBC. However the island's main vaccine centre is saying that they are "not allowed" to give the AZN. Unless advice has changed before it was transmitted out to the field, this may be a case of whoever runs the island's vaccination centre not understanding, in which case hopefully s/he'll soon be put straight. You can imagine how upset people are; I'd have been furious, waiting anxiously for months and then turning up there, if I'd been sent home.

    As it is, I did my NHS antibody test yesterday afternoon (as part of the random sampling study) and it showed I had long-term antibodies after my single AZN, which is very reassuring!
    It is the guidance on the govt official website, which for covid stuff does tend to be updated on the day anything changes. It is also what was said in the press conferences, it baffles me how this can end up misunderstood.
    Local under-40s are saying that's what they've told. The local council has tweeted that under-40s will "directed to vaccination centres offering Pfizer and Moderna in the local area in line with JVCI guidance" - except there aren't any bookable through the national website, as North Island isn't seen as "local". The NHS Trust and CCG have both so far refused to provide a statement - which suggests they are urgently trying to find out what is going on.
    I'm 38 and I got turned away from the Riverside centre in Newport yesterday. When I got to the admin desk they asked how old I was, and the lady said that she was sorry but they "would have to refuse me" because they only had the AZ vaccine and they "were not allowed" to give it to me due to my age. I would have been happy to have received it, but was not given the option to. She said that I wasn't the first person that they had had to turn away. I was told to contact my GP and was escorted out. My GP told me that I should try to find somewhere on the mainland that was offering Pfizer because they are not vaccinating my cohort yet. I've managed to book an appointment in Southampton for 25 May, but when I went on to the NHS site this morning, I still was given the Riverside as the first option.

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297

    Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

    In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbynite left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

    In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

    Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.

    "I am a socialist it stands for equality not because it wants people to be the same, but because only through equality in our economic circumstances can our individuality develop properly. British democracy rests ultimately on the shared perception by all the people that they participate in the benefits of the common wheel."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    "why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.
    Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.
    Deportation and repatriation of people who look like Priti Patel and myself has been the language of the racists from Powell to the BNP.

    Remember when cartoonists portrayed George W. Bush like a chimp but didn’t portray Obama as a chimp?

    Like that, you just don’t go there and talk about deporting the darkies.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

    Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.
    You clearly haven't been telephone canvassing for Labour.

    Corbyn doesn't get a mention

    Lack of policies lack of charisma lack of warmth lack of being on my side get plenty.

    Main thing to make a return They are all the same
    The thing I don't get is this - there are oceans of Social Democratic policies out there. That would warm the hearts of everyone from Corbynistas to the wet end of the Conservatives. That's lots and lots of votes.

    Yes, I know. This is what Blair did. And hence Evul.

    But why not?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

    In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbyn left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

    In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

    Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.

    But isn't the Conservative government busy implementing all of Corbyn's economic policies?
    The Conservatives have supported the economy and the workers in the private sector through the greatest pandemic we have ever known. It will work hard (and take a popularity hit) when it has to to revert the economy to where it was before the pandemic.

    If anyone thinks Corbynism was about protecting the private sector - or returning us to a pre-pandemic economic model.....lolz. Corbynism was about spending shit loads of cash for the public sector. God alone knows how screwed we would have been with 2 or 3 years of Corbynism and THEN the pandemic.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,661

    Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

    In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbyn left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

    In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

    Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.

    But isn't the Conservative government busy implementing all of Corbyn's economic policies?
    If the Tories led by levelling up Johnson are up against SKS in 2024

    Could I be a PB Tory? Not impossible.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    "why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.
    Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.
    Deportation and repatriation of people who look like Priti Patel and myself has been the language of the racists from Powell to the BNP.

    Remember when cartoonists portrayed George W. Bush like a chimp but didn’t portray Obama as a chimp?

    Like that, you just don’t go there and talk about deporting the darkies.
    Baffling to me that this should need explaining to anyone on here.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    edited May 2021

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Would love to hear the proposed way forward. Labour have tried the soft left (Ed), the hard left (Jezbollah) and now the soft right (Iain Duncan Starmer) and the conclusion is they are still only talking to themselves.

    So whilst the leader is crap, its not as if there is an obvious alternative or obvious change of direction.Labour needs to start talking to red wall voters with someone who is actually going to listen and not just tell them. For so many voters Labour's issues, ideas and perspectives are not theirs.

    Because Labour is an AND party where deviation from the orthodoxy is heresy, it seems impossible for the arty to stop talking at people and instead listen - to do so may be to consider that the orthodoxy is wrong.

    I can't see any solution to this other than a divorce. Have the Blair and Burgon wings in separate parties speaking to different people.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

    We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

    The picture of Johnson on that feed with a capo on his guitar and his fretboard hand the wrong side of it pretty much sums him up! ( a post for music nerds)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    Here's something for Labour people to ponder, SKS and Corbyn fans alike.

    In the last 46 years only one Labour leader has won general elections and according to the Corbyn left that election winning Labour leader was a Tory.

    In short socialism stinks and nobody wants a part of it.

    Mrs Thatcher succeeded in scorching socialism from the face of the Earth.

    But isn't the Conservative government busy implementing all of Corbyn's economic policies?
    More implementing Michael Foot’s manifesto but I’m addressing that in Sunday’s piece.
    Ah, Foot: A man ahead of his time.

    In 2059, Conservative PM Sara Britcliffe* will have the abolition of Israel as official government policy and will be entertaining members of Hamas in Downing Street.

    *with apologies to Sara Britcliffe, I only picked on her as the youngest Tory in the house; even she'll be 64 by then - and if she's a Tory at (before, pesumably!) 24, who knows how extreme she'll be as she goes rightwards with age :wink:
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Why are Labour so dire at by elections?

    As far as I can see, they have made precisely ONE gain in by elections (Corby 2012) since Tony Blair became PM.

    I think since the early Blair years they've generally been getting less popular. If you're on a long downtrend then clearly you're not likely to outperform a prior result. So that's perhaps a small part of it, but also simple randomness and the fact that the number of by-elections is statistically insignificant.
    Just wait till Ed Balls romps home to victory in Batley and Spen
    No sign that he's putting his hat in the ring is there?
    (I'm not sure he'd win anyway, but he'd be a very strong candidate)
    I can still dream
    Do you think he's still a Labour man? Obviously to back up his good lady. Otherwise though he's seemed to move a little rightwards from what I've seen - and he always really struggled when in power to make a coherent case for Labour's economic policy which is after all his specialist area.

    Maybe he'll come back as a LibDem!
    Why would he come back as an insignificant historical footnote when he could join Britain’s third party - the Greens?
    The Greens' economic policies are to the left of Labour (to the extent we know anything of the latter's policies). No chance of that.
    I mean I was half joking, but it's possible the Greens replace Labour as the opposition if the momentum (lol) continues.
    Yes - interesting how the territorial squeeze is all on the left whereas the votes are increasingly moving to the right.

    Balls as a LD would be great fun though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    I doubt it quite this bad for Labour.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

    Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.
    You clearly haven't been telephone canvassing for Labour.

    Corbyn doesn't get a mention

    Lack of policies lack of charisma lack of warmth lack of being on my side get plenty.

    Main thing to make a return They are all the same
    So what is your solution? Continuity-Corbo?
  • borisatsunborisatsun Posts: 188
    Just been reading last night's discussion on "best" albums of the 90s..

    Does nobody like hip hop? The 90s were THE golden age of rap. And I mostly listened to rap/hip hop in the 90s.

    Off the top of my head, some albums I might include..

    Bizarre Ryde II - The Pharcyde
    It Was Written - Nas (or Illmatic)
    De La Soul Is Dead - De La Soul
    People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm - A Tribe Called Quest (or Low End Theory, or Midnight Marauders, or Beats Rhymes And Life - TCQ were great!)
    Fear Of A Black Planet - Public Enemy
    Doggystyle - Snoop Dogg
    Black Sunday - Cypress Hill
    Things Fall Apart - The Roots
    Jurassic 5 - Jurassic 5


    I'm sure I've forgotten loads (and included ones that maybe aren't as good as I remember them!). I expect others would argue for some 2Pac, Biggy Smalls, Wu Tang, Eminem or JayZ but I never really got into them.

    And special mention for an album that definitely would have made it to my list if released when it was recorded in the 90s - Black Bastards by KMD (got blocked by the label due to some controversial themes.. KMD was the original group of recently departed MF Doom with his kid brother Subroc who sadly died shortly after recording this album)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Westminster voting intention:

    CON: 45% (+2)
    LAB: 30% (-3)
    GRN: 8% (+2)
    LDEM: 7% (-)
    REFUK: 2% (-1)

    via @YouGov
    Chgs. w/ 05 May


    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1393112175699443713?s=20

    SKS fans please explain.
    Not a SKS fan but this is Corbyn's toxic legacy.

    Very hard to get rid of the shit and the smell out of the carpet after someone takes a massive dump on it.
    You clearly haven't been telephone canvassing for Labour.

    Corbyn doesn't get a mention

    Lack of policies lack of charisma lack of warmth lack of being on my side get plenty.

    Main thing to make a return They are all the same
    The thing I don't get is this - there are oceans of Social Democratic policies out there. That would warm the hearts of everyone from Corbynistas to the wet end of the Conservatives. That's lots and lots of votes.

    Yes, I know. This is what Blair did. And hence Evul.

    But why not?
    Did Blair set out lots of Labour policies prior to the 1997 election campaign? I was only 5 years old at the time so obviously I don't know. It seems that in modern times the opposition only set out policies when the manifesto gets released.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,255
    MichelleC said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    This move below 40 for vaccinations seems to be causing problems because of the decision not to use AZN. At my centre people with appointments are arriving to be turned away because AZN is all they have there currently, and they’re not able to use it for under-40s.

    Isnt the official guidance for under 40s to take another vaccine IF available. If one is not available surely they can still get AZ?
    That does appear to be the national guidance, at least as initially reported by the BBC. However the island's main vaccine centre is saying that they are "not allowed" to give the AZN. Unless advice has changed before it was transmitted out to the field, this may be a case of whoever runs the island's vaccination centre not understanding, in which case hopefully s/he'll soon be put straight. You can imagine how upset people are; I'd have been furious, waiting anxiously for months and then turning up there, if I'd been sent home.

    As it is, I did my NHS antibody test yesterday afternoon (as part of the random sampling study) and it showed I had long-term antibodies after my single AZN, which is very reassuring!
    It is the guidance on the govt official website, which for covid stuff does tend to be updated on the day anything changes. It is also what was said in the press conferences, it baffles me how this can end up misunderstood.
    Local under-40s are saying that's what they've told. The local council has tweeted that under-40s will "directed to vaccination centres offering Pfizer and Moderna in the local area in line with JVCI guidance" - except there aren't any bookable through the national website, as North Island isn't seen as "local". The NHS Trust and CCG have both so far refused to provide a statement - which suggests they are urgently trying to find out what is going on.
    I'm 38 and I got turned away from the Riverside centre in Newport yesterday. When I got to the admin desk they asked how old I was, and the lady said that she was sorry but they "would have to refuse me" because they only had the AZ vaccine and they "were not allowed" to give it to me due to my age. I would have been happy to have received it, but was not given the option to. She said that I wasn't the first person that they had had to turn away. I was told to contact my GP and was escorted out. My GP told me that I should try to find somewhere on the mainland that was offering Pfizer because they are not vaccinating my cohort yet. I've managed to book an appointment in Southampton for 25 May, but when I went on to the NHS site this morning, I still was given the Riverside as the first option.

    That sounds exactly like the clipboardistas

    - You take a set of instructions
    - In an idiotic way, you "simplify" the instructions by invention
    - You then enforce the resulting, invented policy, mindlessly.

    My personal favourite of this genre was a building site inspector (about 12, judging by his spots) who wanted to close down a site because -

    - There were *too many* first aid kits in the site office. The rules said you need at least x first aid kits
    - The lights being installed in some showers were waterproof to a *higher* specification than required under the building regulations.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,788
    Mr. Pioneers, kneeling for BLM is not the act of someone on any branch of the right.

    It's pathetic.

    Maybe that's the thing. Starmer's good at persuading people he isn't one of them. Boris Johnson is full of shit, but he's charismatic and likeable. Starmer's the opposite.

    And allowing the weedy punching footage to be taken then aired was just weird.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    It will work hard (and take a popularity hit) when it has to to revert the economy to where it was before the pandemic.

    I'm not so sure about that
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    https://twitter.com/jessicaduchen/status/1392563683407060993

    We don't have a big music sector in the UK so no big loss in not being able to tour our bands and orchestras...

    Thankyou, Ian Faith...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

    That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.
    Those are people who chose not to be vaccinated. I don't have a lot of sympathy if they get COVID.
    Oh I have zero sympathy if you could have had the vaccinr and you catch covid, my annoyance is the fact they may pass it on to others who couldn't be vaccinated.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Mr. Pioneers, kneeling for BLM is not the act of someone on any branch of the right.

    It's pathetic.

    Maybe that's the thing. Starmer's good at persuading people he isn't one of them. Boris Johnson is full of shit, but he's charismatic and likeable. Starmer's the opposite.

    And allowing the weedy punching footage to be taken then aired was just weird.

    Showing opposition to the murder of black people by US police = "pathetic". Aye alright then.

    Christ.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Spinal Tap, Break Like the Wind was released in '92
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    moonshine said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    Two entertaining (for me) stories overnight.

    First was Howard "vote for me" Beckett calling for Priti Patel to be deported. His suspension from Labour has caused uproar - all the "I'm an anti-racism campaigner me" activists think it outrageous that open racist comments are acted upon when it's one of their own. Don't Labour know that Mr Beckett cannot be racist or post racist stupid comments because he is one of them?

    Second was the shock that the Indian Covid variant is here and is surging. The government could have chosen to stop incomers from India, but instead did Sod All until it was far too late. No wonder that (a) the internal Covid report is so scathing as to be buried and (b) the public enquiry has been long grassed so that it reports after the next election.

    Whilst Howard Beckett's comment was nasty I can't see what was racist about it. Can anyone enlighten me? (Perhaps what I've read isn't the full comment)

    It seems entirely reasonable for him to apologise, but his suspension seems an over-reaction as do Steve Baker's comments.
    "why don't you Pakis go home" is a pretty standard racist trope. The BNP proposed deporting British citizens back to where they didn't come from. And now Howard "vote for me" Beckett wants to deport Patel in an identical way as proposed by Nick Griffin.
    Ah yeah - hadn't thought of it that way. Ok, so I can certainly see there's legitimate sensitivity.
    Deportation and repatriation of people who look like Priti Patel and myself has been the language of the racists from Powell to the BNP.

    Remember when cartoonists portrayed George W. Bush like a chimp but didn’t portray Obama as a chimp?

    Like that, you just don’t go there and talk about deporting the darkies.
    Baffling to me that this should need explaining to anyone on here.
    Some people don’t have a racist bone in their body so they just can’t comprehend racism.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    It doesn’t matter if vaccinated people catch the Indian variant or whatever. What matters is if people get seriously ill from it. A positive test is meaningless in itself.

    It does matter because you may spread it to someone more vulnerable who hasn't been vaccinated.

    That is going to be a problem worldwide and is clearly going to be an issue in some parts of the UK (as that map of Bolton below demonstrates) where we are no where near whatever definition of "herd immunity" you wish to use.
    Those are people who chose not to be vaccinated. I don't have a lot of sympathy if they get COVID.
    Oh I have zero sympathy if you could have had the vaccinr and you catch covid, my annoyance is the fact they may pass it on to others who couldn't be vaccinated.
    But what are we supposed to do? We can't keep everything locked down forever just because some people can't have the vaccine.
This discussion has been closed.