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Why the Tories have LESS than a 90% chance of winning the Chesham and Amersham by-election – politic

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  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    Speaking about the Sidewalks of New York . . .

    Politico. com - Whose winning the NYC mayoral money race?

    The Democratic mayoral primary is the most consequential election in New York City in recent memory. It is the first competitive race for mayor since 2013, and the winner will likely go on to inherit a city still reeling from a deadly pandemic, an economy in crisis and a dramatic spike in crime.

    To rank the candidates, we considered five statistics: donations, contributors, share of New York City donors, remaining cash and average donation size.

    Andrew Yang (total receipts $5.9m, 86% remaining) who tops our list, has drawn from a national fundraising base — a sign of his wide name recognition — while connecting with donors in the five boroughs. That gives him a sizable war chest, the most donors by far and a relatively low average contribution.

    Scott Stringer ($8.7m, 85%) has been raising money for years, and has benefited from concentrations of well-heeled supporters in neighborhoods like the Upper West Side and brownstone Brooklyn, which also turn out in primaries. (Has highest % of funds from NYC residents)

    Eric Adams ($8.9m, 89%) has the largest haul of anyone in the field — and also the the widest geography of contributors. That gives him a big advantage as most campaigns start to execute their television advertising strategies, though his contributions tended to be on the larger side.

    Dianne Morales ($2.8m, 90%)

    Maya Wiley ($3.9m, 66%)

    Kathryn Garcia ($2.9m 93%)

    Raymond McGuire ($7.4m, 49%)

    Shaun Donovan ($3.7m, 59%)

    https://www.politico.com/interactives/2021/nyc-mayor-money-tracker/

    Money is not everything. Yang and Adams are pretty close, but last poll IIRC had Adams slightly ahead for first time. Stringer was in 3rd but lost key endorsement due to sexual harassment allegations. McGuire from Wall Street & Donovan from Obama West Wing have spent big bucks on TV without registering. They & rest of field are Ranked Choice Voting fodder.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179
    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,174
    stodge said:

    I have to say Mrs Stodge is seething tonight.

    Not, I stress, because Count Binfa-ce didn't quite make it to the London Mayoralty.

    It seems Transport for London, in their infinite wisdom, has decided to celebrate our "freedom" by instigating six successive weekends of engineering works on our tube lines.

    Her view is they've had plenty of time to do all this work while no one has been travelling and such work should be suspended through the summer to allow people to get out and about.

    Speaking of "freedom", I saw some anti-lockdown graffiti on one of our local bus stops from an organisation calling itself the "White Rose". Now, I'm sure that isn't a reference to some English county but it's insulting to the real heroes and heroines of the White Rose in Munich during WW2.

    Fortunately, no one takes the British incarnation seriously.

    I believe the Querdenkers in Germany (the ideological wing of anti vaxxers/anti lockdowners) have claimed Sophie Scholl as one of their own which is causing a deal of offence.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,476
    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    He reckons the groom pissed on the hay the horse ate and the cough medicine subsequently showed up in it.

    i) Hay is normally hung up
    ii) If you take a piss in a horse's stable it's generally onto the straw.
    iii) This is an animal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you aren't going to piss on it's hay.
    iv) The horse wouldn't eat the pissed on hay.
    v) Even if the horse did eat the pissed on hay with the groom's cough syrup the amount of steroid coming back through the horses' own piss would be infintesimal.
    It's hard to challenge the expertise you clearly have to offer on the subject.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,065
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    Doesn't it keep falling apart as well due to poor build quality?

    A fitting metaphor for both the devolutionary settlement and Nicola Sturgeon's select committee performances...
  • FossFoss Posts: 437

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    That may also work for the SNP - Greens in the North. At some point they SNP are going to look tired and the current strong-looking alliance might make the switch to the Greens feel less toxic for some current SNP voters.

    (I look forward to being corrected.)
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362

    rcs1000 said:
    I was just reflecting on the last few days and have to say I am content with the outcome but am not in any way triumphant.

    Hello Big_G 🙂. Pleased you are content.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 41,523
    India really suffering.

    "Even as a deadly second wave of Covid-19 ravages India, doctors are now reporting a rash of cases involving a rare infection - also called the "black fungus" - among recovering and recovered Covid-19 patients."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-57027829
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    edited May 10
    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    Oliver Hardy was born in Georgia. Possible his surname, at least in his case, was of French Huguenot descent, there were number who ended up in South Carolina

    Stan Laurel was born in Ulverston, Lancashire.

    EDIT - And surely there's a Hardee's in Laurel, MD?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,944

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,476

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I kind of revel in it, because I have said for ages that Boris would swat Sir Keir away when it came to election time, and it seems to be the case. I used to vote Labour, I voted Tory last time, so I am not loyal to any party. Detatching myself from it I just think it would be funny if he pretended he'd wallpapered Downing St with opinion polls showing it didnt concern the public
    Well that's always a thrill, being proved right. But this aside, now that Brexit is done and Free Movement is over, why are you - a person of the left and who used to vote Labour - still so anti-Labour?

    This is what I'm interested to hear.
    Well I am not necessarily anti Labour forever. I am anti the current set up because they are headed by someone who fought tooth and nail to prevent the Leave vote being delivered between 2016 and 2019. I don't like corporate Labour, which is what I see them as at the moment. I would be more inclined to vote for them under Corbyn's leadership. I disagree with him on things too, but at least those lefties have passion. FWIW I dont really think Boris cares that much about the things that concern me, and he used Leave as a vehicle to get the Tory leadership, but it's not a perfect world, and for the moment he is the one who is doing what he said he would, which is what I voted for. I liked 2012-2015 UKIP the best, and there were a lot of working class Labour people in that motley crew

    I guess, in short, I am anti Labour because they sold out on what I thought they were there for, which is standing up for British workers. I thought they were something they weren't.

    Of course, there is the other element, which is I like betting and working out bets from data, and everything in that regard has always pointed me in the direction of Starmer being a complete dud as leader, whether I like him or not. I think he is dull & useless, and has almost no chance of success. I argued that case quite strongly on here for a long while to no end of disagreement, and so when people try to say he is doing better than Boris on this and that (net ratings for instance) I argue my case, which makes it look like I am anti Labour but really its just pro my betting argument
    We will have sorted out our shit the day you vote Labour again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,065
    edited May 10
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
    How much more lost do you get than losing one of your longest held seats to the government 11 years into Opposition?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,944
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    He reckons the groom pissed on the hay the horse ate and the cough medicine subsequently showed up in it.

    i) Hay is normally hung up
    ii) If you take a piss in a horse's stable it's generally onto the straw.
    iii) This is an animal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you aren't going to piss on it's hay.
    iv) The horse wouldn't eat the pissed on hay.
    v) Even if the horse did eat the pissed on hay with the groom's cough syrup the amount of steroid coming back through the horses' own piss would be infintesimal.
    It's hard to challenge the expertise you clearly have to offer on the subject.

    Quite so. I've learnt more about the relationship between piss, hay and horses in the last five minutes than I have in my previous 60-odd years.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,174
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    If only they’d gone along with the SNP and adopted the old High School building.
    Unionists, no taste and no smeddum.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    In the USA, could set up competing web sites, called "Batley & Spen" and "Airdrie & Shotts" selling mid-to-high end gifts & what not.

    Bet you dollars to donuts most Americans would assume they were akin to "Fortnum & Mason".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,065

    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    He reckons the groom pissed on the hay the horse ate and the cough medicine subsequently showed up in it.

    i) Hay is normally hung up
    ii) If you take a piss in a horse's stable it's generally onto the straw.
    iii) This is an animal worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, you aren't going to piss on it's hay.
    iv) The horse wouldn't eat the pissed on hay.
    v) Even if the horse did eat the pissed on hay with the groom's cough syrup the amount of steroid coming back through the horses' own piss would be infintesimal.
    It's hard to challenge the expertise you clearly have to offer on the subject.

    Quite so. I've learnt more about the relationship between piss, hay and horses in the last five minutes than I have in my previous 60-odd years.
    I’ve just learned a lot about clutching at straws.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,412
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
    How much more lost do you get than losing one of your longest held seats to the government 11 years into Opposition?
    They could make Dian Abbot Shadow Chancellor of the exchequer,
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 2,944
    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
    Yes, of course; I'm just saying that capacity building would take a long time from their current position. Unless, I guess, they could replicate something like Macron did with En Marche.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,065
    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
    How much more lost do you get than losing one of your longest held seats to the government 11 years into Opposition?
    They could make Dian Abbot Shadow Chancellor of the exchequer,
    Ummmm...yes, OK, I will concede that one.

    Or make Richard Burgon leader?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:
    I was just reflecting on the last few days and have to say I am content with the outcome but am not in any way triumphant.

    Hello Big_G 🙂. Pleased you are content.
    last week we spoke, I honestly believed Labour would get better result than the disaster they had.  I was wrong.  Labour lost big whilst LibDems and Greens ended up net positive. That’s not Johnsons jab effect, it’s lack of enthusiasm in Starmer’s Labour.  
     
    I have sought makesome sense of it. 
     
    1. Did everyone get what they deserved?   Or did the glow of vaccination roll out and less COVID give Drakeford, Sturgeon and Boris too a little bit more than they deserved?  surely its Cummings we should thank for taking vaccine procurement away from NHS procurement and Hancock?      
     
    2.  Not being Jeremy Corbyn didn’t help Starmer. Corbyn had a strong GE against May because he was fighting fresh in voters minds the austerity of public service cuts and injustice of pay freezes. Corbyn got smashed by Boris for 2 reasons. Few more years of Tory and New Labour hollowing out Corbyn as an Anti-Semite and supporter of IRA and other terrorists (Despite his heartfelt denial his career and decision making left plenty to suggest these claims ring true).
     
    also because Corbyn was now fighting the face of the fresh start for UK, with promised goodies of levelling up from new Post Brexit investment.  Starmer is now struggling with this same face off.         
     
    3.  On the face of it Boris is inspired, cleaning up electorally promising mere trifle of not taking voters for granted as Labour has done, levelling up run down communities with real skilled jobs and inward investment from free ports and airports and house building.  on the other hand he is still the only politician tying himself to promise of reversing erosion of industrial communities from globalisation, deindustrialisation and automation, is he not?  Labour don’t appear to be trying to neutralise his promises with similar promises. It may prove impossible to meet such promise. as globalisation, deindustrialisation and automation are only going to ramp up in coming years, it might end up as the UK levelling down a bit?
     
    To use Boris own words, he is going to carry on delivering.  what has he served up so far, other than biggest pledge in UK Political History?  Reversing impact of globalisation, deindustrialisation, automation on UKs industrial heartlands, and labour market skillsets and earnings – is there an EdStone big enough to put such colossal promise on?      
     
    4. I also thought because Johnson is bit naff, his cash for curtains mistake certainly naff from him, even people voting for him recognize his untrustworthy nature, as shown up in polling subsets, this would start counting against him, start to outperform his promises in elections. Nope. His promises are clearly winning bigly. Unless there is a big one off feel good factor in these elections results, then I definitely called it wrong.
     
    Labour have a long road ahead of them.  Starmer like Kinnock, getting nowhere near Downing Street.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
    How much more lost do you get than losing one of your longest held seats to the government 11 years into Opposition?
    They could make Dian Abbot Shadow Chancellor of the exchequer,
    Is she any relation to Bud Abbot of "Abbott and Costello"?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,701

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Yes. It might be that the Green Party gains credibility not from Brighton but from Germany later this year. This would mean Labour facing competition for the leftish vote just as the Conservatives seem to have mopped up its competitors to the right.

    Looking at Hartlepool for instance, and acknowledging that most people stayed at home watching the elections on telly, it may be not that the red wall collapsed so much as the blue wall consolidated. The Brexit Party scored 10,000 votes in 2019 but did not stand last week. Has Boris done what New Labour did 20 years ago?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 55,632
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    Bit of a dump from the outside, but inside I think it looks quite nice.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    If only they’d gone along with the SNP and adopted the old High School building.
    Unionists, no taste and no smeddum.
    Not heard of smeddum being used that way before. Interesting.

    But the body that came up with this disaster was cross party and included the SNP.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Starmer now posting critically of Israel on social media in the great tradition of Labour leaders trying not to get the left of the party back onside.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    Bit of a dump from the outside, but inside I think it looks quite nice.
    It looks much nicer from the inside. Because you cannot see the outside from there.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707

    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    Oliver Hardy was born in Georgia. Possible his surname, at least in his case, was of French Huguenot descent, there were number who ended up in South Carolina

    Stan Laurel was born in Ulverston, Lancashire.

    EDIT - And surely there's a Hardee's in Laurel, MD?
    I would think so. One here in Mt Airy, 7 miles up the road from home.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,476

    In the USA, could set up competing web sites, called "Batley & Spen" and "Airdrie & Shotts" selling mid-to-high end gifts & what not.

    Bet you dollars to donuts most Americans would assume they were akin to "Fortnum & Mason".

    When the Fortnum and Mason by-election goes LibDem, we’ll know the Tories are in trouble....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    Architects love it. And rave over its meanings and metaphor. And give it prizes.

    Which proves, if proof were needed, that architects are tossers.
    Why the hell did we need more evidence for that?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,224
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:
    I was just reflecting on the last few days and have to say I am content with the outcome but am not in any way triumphant.

    Hello Big_G 🙂. Pleased you are content.
    last week we spoke, I honestly believed Labour would get better result than the disaster they had.  I was wrong.  Labour lost big whilst LibDems and Greens ended up net positive. That’s not Johnsons jab effect, it’s lack of enthusiasm in Starmer’s Labour.  
     
    I have sought makesome sense of it. 
     
    1. Did everyone get what they deserved?   Or did the glow of vaccination roll out and less COVID give Drakeford, Sturgeon and Boris too a little bit more than they deserved?  surely its Cummings we should thank for taking vaccine procurement away from NHS procurement and Hancock?      
     
    2.  Not being Jeremy Corbyn didn’t help Starmer. Corbyn had a strong GE against May because he was fighting fresh in voters minds the austerity of public service cuts and injustice of pay freezes. Corbyn got smashed by Boris for 2 reasons. Few more years of Tory and New Labour hollowing out Corbyn as an Anti-Semite and supporter of IRA and other terrorists (Despite his heartfelt denial his career and decision making left plenty to suggest these claims ring true).
     
    also because Corbyn was now fighting the face of the fresh start for UK, with promised goodies of levelling up from new Post Brexit investment.  Starmer is now struggling with this same face off.         
     
    3.  On the face of it Boris is inspired, cleaning up electorally promising mere trifle of not taking voters for granted as Labour has done, levelling up run down communities with real skilled jobs and inward investment from free ports and airports and house building.  on the other hand he is still the only politician tying himself to promise of reversing erosion of industrial communities from globalisation, deindustrialisation and automation, is he not?  Labour don’t appear to be trying to neutralise his promises with similar promises. It may prove impossible to meet such promise. as globalisation, deindustrialisation and automation are only going to ramp up in coming years, it might end up as the UK levelling down a bit?
     
    To use Boris own words, he is going to carry on delivering.  what has he served up so far, other than biggest pledge in UK Political History?  Reversing impact of globalisation, deindustrialisation, automation on UKs industrial heartlands, and labour market skillsets and earnings – is there an EdStone big enough to put such colossal promise on?      
     
    4. I also thought because Johnson is bit naff, his cash for curtains mistake certainly naff from him, even people voting for him recognize his untrustworthy nature, as shown up in polling subsets, this would start counting against him, start to outperform his promises in elections. Nope. His promises are clearly winning bigly. Unless there is a big one off feel good factor in these elections results, then I definitely called it wrong.
     
    Labour have a long road ahead of them.  Starmer like Kinnock, getting nowhere near Downing Street.
    Fair summary and maybe Boris’s optimism and can do attitude plays a big part in his popularity

    Starmer is decent enough but bland and to be honest, more a lawyer than a politician

    I do not see a replacement but maybe it will become all too much and he will hand over the fight and recommence his legal duties
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,476

    IanB2 said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the German Greens, I don't follow German politics closely, but I think the Left here shouldn't get excited about it spreading here.

    Arguably "the Left here" should be worried in case the German success (if it happens) lends credibility to the UK Green Party as a repository for voters disillusioned, or more likely baffled, by Labour.
    There's already been some drift from the Corbyn branch of Labour to the Greens. But the Greens here are at least twenty years behind the Greens in Germany. They don't have the infrastructure or the name recognition - other than Caroline Lucas, who can name a leading Green? And I suspect most couldn't name Caroline.

    Lucas has had a safe seat now in Brighton (Pavilion) for 11 years. You'd have expected her influence to spread to the other two seats in Brighton (Kemptown and Hove), both of which should be green-friendly, but actually the Green vote has dropped in both - both are now safe Labour, having been Tory not so long ago. Even on her own patch, the Greens don't have the resources to spread beyond her own seat. In short, the anti-Tory vote is stronger than the pro-Green vote, as is the case in many other cities.
    Things would change if Labour comes to be seen as a lost cause, though.
    Yes, of course; I'm just saying that capacity building would take a long time from their current position. Unless, I guess, they could replicate something like Macron did with En Marche.
    The Greens are critically weak and inexperienced - as I found when I lent them a hand in their number two UK target seat in 2019. The LibDems at least have the advantage of a core of hardened councillors who have been winning elections through thick and thin, and know what they are about.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    edited May 10
    On a stage somewhere in England

    Batley - "I'm telling you, Spen, it's terrible! After thirty years of marriage, my wife isn't letting me have hardly any sex at all!"

    Spen - "Why that IS terrible, Batley! How do you cope?"

    Batley - "It's not easy! But could be worse, I hear there are some guys she's cut off completely!"

    Spen - "Oh, that reminds me, don't want to be late for my, er, dentist appointment!"
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707

    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    Oliver Hardy was born in Georgia. Possible his surname, at least in his case, was of French Huguenot descent, there were number who ended up in South Carolina

    Stan Laurel was born in Ulverston, Lancashire.

    EDIT - And surely there's a Hardee's in Laurel, MD?

    Laurel MD is more famous as being home to the NSA, the Applied Physics Lab, and Laurel Park race track. But I confirmed that there is indeed a Hardee's there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,065
    IanB2 said:

    In the USA, could set up competing web sites, called "Batley & Spen" and "Airdrie & Shotts" selling mid-to-high end gifts & what not.

    Bet you dollars to donuts most Americans would assume they were akin to "Fortnum & Mason".

    When the Fortnum and Mason by-election goes LibDem, we’ll know the Tories are in trouble....
    Certainly it will give your lot the chance to severely hamper them.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,412
    Brom said:

    Starmer now posting critically of Israel on social media in the great tradition of Labour leaders trying not to get the left of the party back onside.

    That does sound like the actions of a Man panicking, who is not very good at assessing how his actions will actually come across to other people.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    In the USA, could set up competing web sites, called "Batley & Spen" and "Airdrie & Shotts" selling mid-to-high end gifts & what not.

    Bet you dollars to donuts most Americans would assume they were akin to "Fortnum & Mason".

    In the USA, you have Soviet style names like "Congressional District #19" :lol:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    On the positive side it is hidden down the bottom of the Royal Mile and not seen by most of us who try to forget it exists. The Turd on the other hand, oh dear
    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/public-reacts-new-st-james-quarter-hotel-viral-tweet-shows-finishing-touches-exterior-3037754
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,582

    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    Oliver Hardy was born in Georgia. Possible his surname, at least in his case, was of French Huguenot descent, there were number who ended up in South Carolina

    Stan Laurel was born in Ulverston, Lancashire.

    EDIT - And surely there's a Hardee's in Laurel, MD?
    There's a statue of Stan Laurel in Bishop Auckland.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    What are the odds on being so unlucky so frequently and all on champion horses?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    One topic that may have been discussed already, but that's clearly relevant, is the Luck of the Boris.

    Johnson that is, in politics anyone one of the luckiest SOBs who ever lived.

    Rather unlike his Turkish grandsire who was torn to pieces by a disgruntled focus group. Litterally.

    Perhaps there is a ying and yang to this? With BoJo getting the upside of the family tetter-totter?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,782
    IanB2 said:

    In the USA, could set up competing web sites, called "Batley & Spen" and "Airdrie & Shotts" selling mid-to-high end gifts & what not.

    Bet you dollars to donuts most Americans would assume they were akin to "Fortnum & Mason".

    When the Fortnum and Mason by-election goes LibDem, we’ll know the Tories are in trouble....
    The Tories almost lost the West Central constituency on Thursday.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,782
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It's transgressive and challenging though.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,839

    India really suffering.

    "Even as a deadly second wave of Covid-19 ravages India, doctors are now reporting a rash of cases involving a rare infection - also called the "black fungus" - among recovering and recovered Covid-19 patients."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-57027829

    Does anyone know whether the dreadful suffering in India is having any influence on the vaccine take-up anywhere else?

    Good evening, everybody.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,782
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    What's number one?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695

    In the USA, could set up competing web sites, called "Batley & Spen" and "Airdrie & Shotts" selling mid-to-high end gifts & what not.

    Bet you dollars to donuts most Americans would assume they were akin to "Fortnum & Mason".

    In the USA, you have Soviet style names like "Congressional District #19" :lol:
    Soviet's copied it from US. Has been American practice pretty consistently since early Republic.

    But agree the geographic names are better.

    Australia names some federal constituencies after notable politicos, for example Hughes, which is pretty cool though occasionally controversial.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    Bit of a dump from the outside, but inside I think it looks quite nice.
    Same as the British Library (the "new" one on Euston Road). Lovely lush interiors, but the exterior? Pff. A great public building like THE BRITISH LIBRARY should resonate with a welcoming grandeur, a proper sonority. A
    confident embrace of the street

    It looks like a mildly fortified Tesco in Croydon with extra arty bits. It is not in Holyrood's league for actual howling ugliness, but it is so disappointing. So timid and pathetic.

    As I said earlier the Senedd in Cardiff shows we can still design lovely AND impressive public buildings, but too often we get them wrong. A cultural decay
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 31,739

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    I'm just trying to imagine the spooks infiltrating RTE and other tinpot Irish media. Failing so far...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,837
    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
    Given that you might think
    DO NOT PISS IN THE STABLES!!
    Would be prominent in the job description.
    Everybody pisses in stables

    And your rule would ruin the excuse
    Only in other peoples. I take a pee in the fields...
    Personally I find that a little exposed. Prefer the hedge line.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    On the positive side it is hidden down the bottom of the Royal Mile and not seen by most of us who try to forget it exists. The Turd on the other hand, oh dear
    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/public-reacts-new-st-james-quarter-hotel-viral-tweet-shows-finishing-touches-exterior-3037754
    Christ, I'd forgotten that. Yes it is bad. Like something in Baku or Minsk from the 1980s.

    The plus here, however, is that will inevitably be demolished in a decade or two. You are stuck with Holyrood
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179
    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    What's number one?
    I believe its official title is the St James' Quarter Hotel but it will always be known as the turd. See my post at 8.32 for pictures. It dominates the views in George Street which has many beautiful buildings, it is highly visible from the South Bridge and can be seen in part from parts of Princes Street. Just an abomination.

    I don't really believe in capital punishment but for the planners who let that through an exception should really be made if only pour encourager les autres.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    ...

    RobD said:

    So much for the wallpaper :wink:

    Redfield & Wilton Strategies
    @RedfieldWilton
    ·
    1m
    Westminster Voting Intention (10 May):

    Conservative 45% (+5)
    Labour 34% (-4)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (–)
    Green 5% (–)
    Reform UK 2% (-1)

    Changes +/- 3 May


    But, the wallpaper?
    Boris should photoshop an pic of him plastering the walls of No10 with those opinion poll graphs!
    See? You just revel in Tory success and Labour failure. This is (obvs) not due to your concern for the low paid. So what gives? Tell me.
    Your comment is super interesting and indicative of why Lab will find it so difficult to win back lost voters.

    You simply cannot comprehend that the Cons are concerned about the poor. You genuinely think that it is only Lab that can care and that the Cons almost by definition don't or can't.

    That is the mountain you guys have got to climb. Good luck.
    I don't think that actually. This is bespoke for @isam.

    Seems everybody bar him is answering.
    I kind of revel in it, because I have said for ages that Boris would swat Sir Keir away when it came to election time, and it seems to be the case. I used to vote Labour, I voted Tory last time, so I am not loyal to any party. Detatching myself from it I just think it would be funny if he pretended he'd wallpapered Downing St with opinion polls showing it didnt concern the public
    Well that's always a thrill, being proved right. But this aside, now that Brexit is done and Free Movement is over, why are you - a person of the left and who used to vote Labour - still so anti-Labour?

    This is what I'm interested to hear.
    Well I am not necessarily anti Labour forever. I am anti the current set up because they are headed by someone who fought tooth and nail to prevent the Leave vote being delivered between 2016 and 2019. I don't like corporate Labour, which is what I see them as at the moment. I would be more inclined to vote for them under Corbyn's leadership. I disagree with him on things too, but at least those lefties have passion. FWIW I dont really think Boris cares that much about the things that concern me, and he used Leave as a vehicle to get the Tory leadership, but it's not a perfect world, and for the moment he is the one who is doing what he said he would, which is what I voted for. I liked 2012-2015 UKIP the best, and there were a lot of working class Labour people in that motley crew

    I guess, in short, I am anti Labour because they sold out on what I thought they were there for, which is standing up for British workers. I thought they were something they weren't.

    Of course, there is the other element, which is I like betting and working out bets from data, and everything in that regard has always pointed me in the direction of Starmer being a complete dud as leader, whether I like him or not. I think he is dull & useless, and has almost no chance of success. I argued that case quite strongly on here for a long while to no end of disagreement, and so when people try to say he is doing better than Boris on this and that (net ratings for instance) I argue my case, which makes it look like I am anti Labour but really its just pro my betting argument
    We will have sorted out our shit the day you vote Labour again.
    ..
    but how long will it take?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257

    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    Oliver Hardy was born in Georgia. Possible his surname, at least in his case, was of French Huguenot descent, there were number who ended up in South Carolina

    Stan Laurel was born in Ulverston, Lancashire.

    EDIT - And surely there's a Hardee's in Laurel, MD?
    There's a statue of Stan Laurel in Bishop Auckland.
    Yes indeed. His parents ran a theatre there and young Stan first took to the stage in Bish.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,837
    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    What's number one?
    I believe its official title is the St James' Quarter Hotel but it will always be known as the turd. See my post at 8.32 for pictures. It dominates the views in George Street which has many beautiful buildings, it is highly visible from the South Bridge and can be seen in part from parts of Princes Street. Just an abomination.

    I don't really believe in capital punishment but for the planners who let that through an exception should really be made if only pour encourager les autres.
    They could easily fix it by modifying the mr whippy bit at the top
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    Well, for a Parliament that does not require any declarations of interest what could be more appropriate?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707
    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    What are the odds on being so unlucky so frequently and all on champion horses?
    In a training barn with a history of taking low price yearlings and turning them into winners at Triple Crown races. That said, drug tests on horses are incredibly sensitive and do turn up false positives. When my daughter is competing, even though she is an amateur (but because it is an Olympic sport governed by the FEI), we have to be very careful for some 3 months or so around the barn and with feed supplements.
  • FossFoss Posts: 437
    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It's transgressive and challenging though.
    So is smearing yourself with shit whilst running at people with an axe.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 46,224
    Looks as if Fulham are joining WBA and Sheff Utd in the Championship
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    Oliver Hardy was born in Georgia. Possible his surname, at least in his case, was of French Huguenot descent, there were number who ended up in South Carolina

    Stan Laurel was born in Ulverston, Lancashire.

    EDIT - And surely there's a Hardee's in Laurel, MD?

    Laurel MD is more famous as being home to the NSA, the Applied Physics Lab, and Laurel Park race track. But I confirmed that there is indeed a Hardee's there.
    My own sainted mother used to love Hardee's roast beef sandwiches.

    In Parkersburg WV which also has a major federal presence (thanks to Senator Byrd) the National Debt Bureau or whatever it's called these days.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    M. Kier Hardie?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 40,179

    DavidL said:

    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    What's number one?
    I believe its official title is the St James' Quarter Hotel but it will always be known as the turd. See my post at 8.32 for pictures. It dominates the views in George Street which has many beautiful buildings, it is highly visible from the South Bridge and can be seen in part from parts of Princes Street. Just an abomination.

    I don't really believe in capital punishment but for the planners who let that through an exception should really be made if only pour encourager les autres.
    They could easily fix it by modifying the mr whippy bit at the top
    That might reduce it to mere ugliness, yes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257
    MaxPB said:

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    I'm just trying to imagine the spooks infiltrating RTE and other tinpot Irish media. Failing so far...
    Surely Father Jack was a deep undercover agent?

    Drink! Girls! Just like James Bond.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    What are the odds on being so unlucky so frequently and all on champion horses?
    In a training barn with a history of taking low price yearlings and turning them into winners at Triple Crown races. That said, drug tests on horses are incredibly sensitive and do turn up false positives. When my daughter is competing, even though she is an amateur (but because it is an Olympic sport governed by the FEI), we have to be very careful for some 3 months or so around the barn and with feed supplements.
    What about stablehands pissing everywhere? Is there a bit of a moratorium of defecating in the horse feed?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,348
    Charles said:

    stodge said:


    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.

    What are the odds on being so unlucky so frequently and all on champion horses?
    I forget sarcasm doesn't carry well in this forum.

    Big trainers have huge power in American racing. Baffert virtually runs Californian racing. When the Dirt track at Santa Anita was causing numbers of fatalities and injuries, the course decided to take it up and put down a Polytrack. While this helped the horses, it didn't help Baffert and the other local trainers who saw the European horses come over and raid the Breeders Cup and, as they saw it, "steal" their prize money.

    Just as the Australians have done recently to prevent the Europeans repeatedly winning the Melbourne Cup (the European horses are better than the locals but the pot is £3 million so it's worth going for), the Americans ripped up the Polytrack and put a Dirt surface back down because they were more interested ins keeping the prize money than horse welfare.

    The Australians have changed the rules in the name of horse welfare but the concensus is it's to stop the Europeans winning the Melbourne Cup and the Cox Plate. I was on an Aussie horse racing forum and suggested if they cut the pot in half they'd have more chance of keeping the prize at home - that wasn't popular.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,065
    DavidL said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    Well, for a Parliament that does not require any declarations of interest what could be more appropriate?
    Bit harsh.

    On used car salesmen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    Apparently George Galloway is threatening to stand in Batley and Spen.

    Well if Batley and Spen is going to attract losers who stood in Holyrood then it won't be long before Salmond announces he's standing in Batley and Spen.
    They could come to US and stand for Laurel and Hardy.
    I know Laurel, MD very well, but had not known that there is also a Hardy in the US. Apparently, 15 Hardys in the US and 2 elsewhere. Strangely, 1 in France and one in Algeria. Not a name I'd take for being French.
    M. Kier Hardie?
    Certainly Oliver Hardy could have been Scots on his daddy's side.

    And he was IIRC a good deal more radical as a rule than Stan Laurel.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 16,837
    Leon said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
    £67m is a lot for a car dealership, you're right
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,323

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    £115 million tender bid became £250 million construction cost including adding £25 million to upgrade safety after 9/11, and increasing capacity for an extra 30% MSPs, £160 million delay and disruption costs for all the changes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    It reminds me of cheap apartments in a downmarket French ski resort. In summer
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,174
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    If only they’d gone along with the SNP and adopted the old High School building.
    Unionists, no taste and no smeddum.
    Not heard of smeddum being used that way before. Interesting.

    But the body that came up with this disaster was cross party and included the SNP.
    It's quite a faceted word.

    Fig. Spirit, mettle, energy, drive, spunk, vigorous common sense and resourcefulness

    I was thinking of the ‘vigorous common sense’ one, but lack of ‘spirit, mettle, energy, drive, spunk’ could apply to being too feart to choose an impressive building because it had become a nationalist shibboleth. Problems with Unionist self confidence, even then.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    Leon said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
    £67m is a lot for a car dealership, you're right
    You have no soul. Look at that voluptuous wooden ceiling. Bravura engineering, just a balm to see
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 17,393
    Leon said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
    I think it looks great and nothing like a car dealership at all. De gustibus...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695

    MaxPB said:

    This is the guy who's usually quoted to show that the US is backing the EU on Northern Ireland. He's an anti-British fanatic.

    "@RepKevinBoyle
    It’s known in US national security circles large segments of the Irish media & some politicians have been compromised by British intelligence. Long overdue that some of them are being exposed or soon will be."


    https://twitter.com/RepKevinBoyle/status/1391746352888025090

    I'm just trying to imagine the spooks infiltrating RTE and other tinpot Irish media. Failing so far...
    Surely Father Jack was a deep undercover agent?

    Drink! Girls! Just like James Bond.
    "W. Jack W" and "I like my women shaken, not stirred" (shaken in a good way)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 15,257
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    Well, for a Parliament that does not require any declarations of interest what could be more appropriate?
    Bit harsh.

    On used car salesmen.
    Running a devolved administration is very much like making love to a beautiful woman...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449
    edited May 10
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_Building

    Books already written.

    The SNP wanted it in the old Royal High School high up on Calton Hill, but that was too uppity for the Unionists and it had to be put down in the valley next to Holyroodhouse [the Palace]. Which made it more British or something, I'm not sure. Not privy to the primarily Labour-LD thinking involved.

    Mind, Westminster didn't do so well. There was a huge screw-up over the stone quality control, IIRC.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 4,707
    Alistair said:

    TimT said:

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    What are the odds on being so unlucky so frequently and all on champion horses?
    In a training barn with a history of taking low price yearlings and turning them into winners at Triple Crown races. That said, drug tests on horses are incredibly sensitive and do turn up false positives. When my daughter is competing, even though she is an amateur (but because it is an Olympic sport governed by the FEI), we have to be very careful for some 3 months or so around the barn and with feed supplements.
    What about stablehands pissing everywhere? Is there a bit of a moratorium of defecating in the horse feed?
    As I said earlier, that is what muck buckets are for :dizzy:
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
    £67m is a lot for a car dealership, you're right
    You have no soul. Look at that voluptuous wooden ceiling. Bravura engineering, just a balm to see
    Sadly there's a lot of anti-Cambrianism on this site.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861
    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    It reminds me of cheap apartments in a downmarket French ski resort. In summer
    Yes, exactly, it looks....... cheap.

    A crappy over-ambitious hotel in Sunny Beach Bulgaria where they ran out of their already-limited cash due to the owner getting jailed for pimping

    Spending £414m to get something that looks cheap and icky is quite an achievement
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,323
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    Architects love it. And rave over its meanings and metaphor. And give it prizes.

    Which proves, if proof were needed, that architects are tossers.
    This from the people who love an institution that takes 30 minutes to cast and process a vote.....
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_Building

    Books already written.

    The SNP wanted it in the old Royal High School high up on Calton Hill, but that was too uppity for the Unionists and it had to be put down in the valley next to Holyroodhouse [the Palace].
    So how does that explain why it's so (apparently) god awful?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_Building

    Books already written.

    The SNP wanted it in the old Royal High School high up on Calton Hill, but that was too uppity for the Unionists and it had to be put down in the valley next to Holyroodhouse [the Palace].
    So how does that explain why it's so (apparently) god awful?
    It doesn't. But it does explain the location.

    The primary architect did die half way through designing it (if you see what I mean) but I'm not sure how much impact that had.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_Building

    Books already written.

    The SNP wanted it in the old Royal High School high up on Calton Hill, but that was too uppity for the Unionists and it had to be put down in the valley next to Holyroodhouse [the Palace].
    So how does that explain why it's so (apparently) god awful?
    And quite a few people like it (including English visitors).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,833
    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    stodge said:


    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.

    What are the odds on being so unlucky so frequently and all on champion horses?
    I forget sarcasm doesn't carry well in this forum.

    Big trainers have huge power in American racing. Baffert virtually runs Californian racing. When the Dirt track at Santa Anita was causing numbers of fatalities and injuries, the course decided to take it up and put down a Polytrack. While this helped the horses, it didn't help Baffert and the other local trainers who saw the European horses come over and raid the Breeders Cup and, as they saw it, "steal" their prize money.

    Just as the Australians have done recently to prevent the Europeans repeatedly winning the Melbourne Cup (the European horses are better than the locals but the pot is £3 million so it's worth going for), the Americans ripped up the Polytrack and put a Dirt surface back down because they were more interested ins keeping the prize money than horse welfare.

    The Australians have changed the rules in the name of horse welfare but the concensus is it's to stop the Europeans winning the Melbourne Cup and the Cox Plate. I was on an Aussie horse racing forum and suggested if they cut the pot in half they'd have more chance of keeping the prize at home - that wasn't popular.
    I was amplifying your sarcasm, but thank you for the detail. American protectionism is not a surprise
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    sarissa said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    £115 million tender bid became £250 million construction cost including adding £25 million to upgrade safety after 9/11, and increasing capacity for an extra 30% MSPs, £160 million delay and disruption costs for all the changes.
    Disgraceful.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 12,861

    Leon said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
    I think it looks great and nothing like a car dealership at all. De gustibus...
    It is also very successful. It has had books written about it because people love it. I fear this will never be the case for its cousin in Edinburgh


    https://www.theguardian.com/cardiff/2010/oct/28/new-book-celebrates-senedd-building-trevor-fishlock
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    Architects love it. And rave over its meanings and metaphor. And give it prizes.

    Which proves, if proof were needed, that architects are tossers.
    Architects also love the Experience Music Project building at Seattle Center, designed by Frank Gehry.

    Which looks great from ONE viewing perspective. From elsewhere resembles a cheap blob of junk.

    EMP itself not much better, unless you really dig happy hour at your local Hard Rock Cafe.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 1,641
    The Scottish Parliament featured in a Channel 4 TV series about buildings the public wanted demolished

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_(TV_series)

    Most of the buildings have now been demolished or refurbed but not Holyrood
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449

    sarissa said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    £115 million tender bid became £250 million construction cost including adding £25 million to upgrade safety after 9/11, and increasing capacity for an extra 30% MSPs, £160 million delay and disruption costs for all the changes.
    Disgraceful.
    Mind, an office block for 1/3 of the MPs cost £212m. No debating chamber or anything.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 15,449
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I think the Senedd looks a bit like a car dealership

    The Senedd is powerful and exquisite and uplifting, with an amazing interior


    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/senedd-cymru-why-has-the-national-assembly-for-wales-changed-its-name/

    https://www.arup.com/projects/national-assembly-for-wales


    It also cost £67m unlike the £414m for Holyrood
    I think it looks great and nothing like a car dealership at all. De gustibus...
    It is also very successful. It has had books written about it because people love it. I fear this will never be the case for its cousin in Edinburgh


    https://www.theguardian.com/cardiff/2010/oct/28/new-book-celebrates-senedd-building-trevor-fishlock
    As I said, the books have been written for Holyrood. But I haven't read them.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 5,695
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    The Americans have discovered Holyrood, the building. An amusing thread

    ‘The Scottish Parliament is, truly, one of the ugliest buildings ever built.’

    https://twitter.com/lvcivs_mcmxci/status/1391096874543685632?s=21

    They’re not wrong. It’s shockingly bad. An obscene insult to one of the most serenely beautiful cities in the world. How did it happen? How did it cost so much???

    The amazing thing is that, despite costing £400m, it manages to look cheap. Like a po-mo Premier Inn on the outskirts of Basingstoke

    The worst public building erected in the UK - ever??

    They needed something to make what happened inside look good. It didn't work.

    And in fairness with the building of the turd it is probably only the second ugliest building in Edinburgh.
    I thought it cost more than 400m
    I think that the official figure was £414.4m. Not even worth 1% of that.
    It has a negative value. Because it is actively ugly, and distressing to look at, so it detracts from the cityscape of lovely Edinburgh, and harms its reputation.

    And every day someone looks at it and winces, and their day is made just a little bit worse. It is bad for humankind

    Someone should write a book about how a building this obviously horrible and ugly ends up getting built, and at such vast expense, to boot. It's the architectural equivalent of one of those mahoosively expensive Hollywood movies that make about $3. Like Heaven's Gate. Or the Postman by Kevin Costner.

    Unlike those movies, Holyrood will never gain a cult following and it will always be there in your face to insult Edinburgh folk, until it is demolished in a fit of honest shame

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_Building

    Books already written.

    The SNP wanted it in the old Royal High School high up on Calton Hill, but that was too uppity for the Unionists and it had to be put down in the valley next to Holyroodhouse [the Palace].
    So how does that explain why it's so (apparently) god awful?
    It doesn't. But it does explain the location.

    The primary architect did die half way through designing it (if you see what I mean) but I'm not sure how much impact that had.
    Location & architect change likely upped the price tag, but price tag was probably gonna be stratospheric regardless.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    I see "Cancel Culture" now includes being caught for doping your race horses now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/10/bob-baffert-medina-spirit-kentucky-derby-horse-racing-cancel-culture-disqualification

    Wither the fearless free speech warriors who will defend this noble horse doper?

    I’m more concerned about his defence that a groom urinated on the horse’s food…
    Omg, I missed this on first read

    Baffert has had at least 30 positive doping tests for his horses, but insisted to Fox that he runs a clean operation.

    How is he still operating?
    I know… are they all his own horses or does he train for other owners…
    No, they aren't "his" but he does seem to have incredible bad luck such as the pain relief the groom was wearing which rubbed onto a horse and caused it to fail a post-race test.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/kentucky-derby-winner-medina-spirit-tests-positive-for-banned-raceday-substance/488912

    The horse has NOT been disqualified at this time - the Kentucky racing authorities are waiting the results of further tests.
    That sort of bad luck is spookily common. The usual story is the groom was taking the banned substance and had a pee in the stable.
    Given that you might think
    DO NOT PISS IN THE STABLES!!
    Would be prominent in the job description.
    Everybody pisses in stables

    And your rule would ruin the excuse
    Only in other peoples. I take a pee in the fields...
    Personally I find that a little exposed. Prefer the hedge line.
    My fields.. agreed Hedge line best and not into the prevailing wind.....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Batley & Spen was Tory-held 1983 - 1997 by Elizabeth Peacock, and has,therefore, not been such a consistently Labour seat. Nevertheless I find it difficult to see how Starmer could survive its loss. Unlike Hartlepool the timing is not so much in his hands , though he may be able to defer it to early Autumn - ie September. By that time the vaccine 'bounce' may well have dissipated or been overtaken by other events.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 68,402
    Casual sex to be allowed from the 17th.
This discussion has been closed.